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Rust_Lord
11-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Okay gamers here's your chance to go crazy and make all your requests for the inevitable FOC patch. Hopefully this will gain the attention of our buddies at PG and they may give some consideration to the wishes/opinions of their devoted customers. While it might be more appropriate to have a seperate FOC thread under 'tech issues' for bugs, it might just be easier to lump everything into this thread.

Fire away!
Regards
Rusty

I wont steal anyone's glory so first off I will go for a simple one, I was playing the small GC focused on capture of the Maw; playing as the Empire and I found a bug where Pietts proton beam stayed on screen and did not damage a hardpoint. Piett moved away and the graphic remained and continued to remain until the hardpoint was destroyed.

darthcarth
11-01-2006, 08:44 PM
More balanced duh, and all the bugs to be fixed all teh rest i can wait for to come out in mods.

Rust_Lord
11-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Well thats a no brainer but is there anything *specific* you want changed? Like the Vengeance frigates need to be made a little less tougher or to tone down the mass drivers a bit; either lower damage or lower rate of fire if they want to keep the ability to ignore shields; Longer recharge on the point defence lasers and a smaller burst of missiles on the Interceptor IVs. While they are at it, how about making the interdictor a bit more useful; another four lasercannons would be good = with a corellian corvette.

Daspaz
11-02-2006, 01:18 AM
Simple: IG-88.

I've seen a lot of proposed solutions to how broken he is, but here's what I see as the simplest.
The Rebels can destroy the DS by winning a space battle involving it with Rogue squadron. They need to work for the kill. Why not simply make it exactly the same for IG-88? Make it so the Consortium must win a space battle over the DS with IG-88 alive.
The way it is now simply cannot be allowed to stay as it is. The Empire has to spend a fortune researching, building, and protecting it. The Rebels have to win a freaking Epic space battle versus the inevtibly huge defence fleet probably including the Executor too, while their cruisers are getting completely owned by the DS's laser, and keep Rogue squadron alive. (As described it's actually exactly like in RotJ.) The Zann Consortium? Drag a unit to a little circle: boom, with no warning or defense.
Considering the Rebels canonically destroyed the thing, there is no way to justify giving the Consortium a way to destroy the Death Star that's 100 times easier. Make them win a space battle over it too.
PLEASE.

Darth Ablett
11-02-2006, 03:52 AM
Simple: IG-88.

I've seen a lot of proposed solutions to how broken he is, but here's what I see as the simplest.
The Rebels can destroy the DS by winning a space battle involving it with Rogue squadron. They need to work for the kill. Why not simply make it exactly the same for IG-88? Make it so the Consortium must win a space battle over the DS with IG-88 alive.
The way it is now simply cannot be allowed to stay as it is. The Empire has to spend a fortune researching, building, and protecting it. The Rebels have to win a freaking Epic space battle versus the inevtibly huge defence fleet probably including the Executor too, while their cruisers are getting completely owned by the DS's laser, and keep Rogue squadron alive. (As described it's actually exactly like in RotJ.) The Zann Consortium? Drag a unit to a little circle: boom, with no warning or defense.
Considering the Rebels canonically destroyed the thing, there is no way to justify giving the Consortium a way to destroy the Death Star that's 100 times easier. Make them win a space battle over it too.
PLEASE.

Woah, hold on. I'm going to buy FoC this weekend, so I haven't played it yet. But IG-88 doesn't have to be involved in a battle to blow up the Death Star? That's madness! That means there is nothing to stop the consortium from removing the most expensive unit in the game.

I know he is permanently removed from play, but is that really balanced when you're talking about a huge financial hit for the Empire player? Also, is this still the case when losing the DS is a losing condition? If it is, that's pretty dumb.

Oh, and on-topic for a patch: fix the sound bugs I've been hearing about, with units like the TIE Phantom having the voice of a Scout.

christnet06
11-02-2006, 05:50 AM
Hi,

There is a problem with the Death Star II superlaser. When i use it to destroy a planet after having destroyed a ship, the planet explodes without the superlaser.

And i've also noticed that for Nal hutta, the death star destroy the planet moon and not the planet itself !! (also when i've destroyed a ship before)

There is also a bug for space Bespin Map where chips and Death Star are in the planet atmosphere and you can't destroy it.The only mean to destroy Bespin is to go on the galactic map.

That's all (i think) for the death star II bugs.

Dreng
11-02-2006, 06:12 AM
the DS II-IG-88 thing is balanced because if he is removed from the game you just build the DS II again and then IG-88 wouldnt be there to stop you or does the DS II cant be builded again?

papercut
11-02-2006, 06:46 AM
i havent played forces of coruption, though i herd alot of it, plz reply...papercut210@hotmail.com

papercut
11-02-2006, 06:51 AM
i think u should be able to hav old republic stuff, coz they dont make a whole of clone wars games uno, imeen in space maybe a jedi starfighter, arc170 fighter, gunship, droid starfighter etc and maybe for land clones and droids (obviosley) spider walkers...and if anyones seen Clone wars part1 & 2 they should put some of the planets from that if they havent, or missions(thats wat they should of done for republic commando) plz reply papercut210@hotmail.com

Dreng
11-02-2006, 09:12 AM
another bug when dark troopers and bobba fett go trough the water while using their jetpacks they start to blink in yellow and have that little water icon on then even when they arent on the water anymore

jedi jim 1989
11-02-2006, 09:58 AM
mainly i got a problem of the "ysalamari cage consrtucting going off all the time" what the hell is tha about

ImpElite
11-02-2006, 10:35 AM
i think u should be able to hav old republic stuff, coz they dont make a whole of clone wars games uno, imeen in space maybe a jedi starfighter, arc170 fighter, gunship, droid starfighter etc and maybe for land clones and droids (obviosley) spider walkers...and if anyones seen Clone wars part1 & 2 they should put some of the planets from that if they havent, or missions(thats wat they should of done for republic commando) plz reply papercut210@hotmail.com

Okay, one. No offense and please don't take this as a flame, lean how to spell.

Two. I think they should make a New Republic expansion instead of Clone Wars, it'd be the first New Republic/Yuuzhan Vong game!

Valter
11-02-2006, 03:43 PM
There are a few bugs and balance issues I've noticed...

- Rouge Squadron disappears forever when destroyed in GC.

- The Rebel transport is unbuildable even when C-3PO and R2-D2 steal the tech.

- The Vengeance frigates are practically indestructible, their mass drivers destroy fighters too quickly and their armor seems unaffected by laser blasts. Maybe lower the HP health or lower the rate of fire on their mass drivers.

- The TIE phantoms can be detected by the AI when using the "stealth" ability.

- The warning of an incoming enemy fleet is "ysalamiri cage constructing."

- The Keldabe Cruiser and Aggressor Cruiser can be built anywhere (without Mon Calamari, Kuat etc...). This seems to cause balance issues with the number of capital ships that can be built at one time.

- The "Revolt" corruption ability is way too overpowered. I lost a level 5 space station, turbolaser towers, a Magnapulse cannon and a barracks on Fondor when the Consortium instigated a "revolt." This is annoying because their is NO way to defend against a revolt.

- IG-88 can destroy the death star without any difficulty. This is a major balance issue that needs attention. At least add some challenge to the "Hack Death Star" ability. It feels too easy.

There are some other minor things I've noticed but these are the glitches and balance issues that really get on my nerves.

Dreng
11-02-2006, 05:24 PM
The rebels in GC only build ion cannons and they doesnt even use them...this happened in medium dificulty they had tatoine and some other planets with just ion cannons but in the space battles no one was fired (spanish version of FOC btw)

Rust_Lord
11-02-2006, 06:02 PM
Totally valid point about the IG-88 thing. He doesnt just take out the death star but the planet, any fleet and characters in the system at the time. My brother, to his surprise, found out last night when his prize fleet including executor was destroyed without a fight. First thing he knew EVERY hero was removed from play, since they were all either in space or on the planet where the DS was located. Point taken the DS can be built again but apart from losing characters and the planet the fleet would have cost over 40000 easy.

Aside to this I think I found another bug; while combating a ZC force with the DS alone (and its support fleet) the DS could not target the space station. There was no frigates it could target and it seems that it needs to be able to target frigates/cap ships before it can target space stations. Anyone else experienced this because ive definately used the DS to destroy both space stations before while frigs/cap ships were present.

Darth Ablett
11-02-2006, 06:40 PM
Totally valid point about the IG-88 thing. He doesnt just take out the death star but the planet, any fleet and characters in the system at the time. My brother, to his surprise, found out last night when his prize fleet including executor was destroyed without a fight. First thing he knew EVERY hero was removed from play, since they were all either in space or on the planet where the DS was located. Point taken the DS can be built again but apart from losing characters and the planet the fleet would have cost over 40000 easy.


Exactly. If this happened, it's highly unlikely that the Empire player would be able to recover from that loss. There should be an added degree of difficulty, as well as some interactivity IMO.

SaintVezner
11-02-2006, 06:53 PM
There are a few bugs and balance issues I've noticed...

- Rouge Squadron disappears forever when destroyed in GC.

- The Rebel transport is unbuildable even when C-3PO and R2-D2 steal the tech.

- The Vengeance frigates are practically indestructible, their mass drivers destroy fighters too quickly and their armor seems unaffected by laser blasts. Maybe lower the HP health or lower the rate of fire on their mass drivers.

- The TIE phantoms can be detected by the AI when using the "stealth" ability.

- The warning of an incoming enemy fleet is "ysalamiri cage constructing."

- The Keldabe Cruiser and Aggressor Cruiser can be built anywhere (without Mon Calamari, Kuat etc...). This seems to cause balance issues with the number of capital ships that be built at one time.

- The "Revolt" corruption ability is way too overpowered. I lost a level 5 space station, turbolaser towers, a Magnapulse cannon and a barracks on Fondor when the Consortium instigated a "revolt." This is annoying because their is NO way to defend against a revolt.

- IG-88 can destroy the death star without any difficulty. This is a major balance issue that needs attention. At least add some challenge to the "Hack Death Star" ability. It feels too easy.

There are some other minor things I've noticed but these are the glitches and balance issues that really get on my nerves.

I've noticed the same bugs as well as some others that I will list below:

---Sometimes when you play a GC game you can't tech up to level 5, and yes I did make extra sure that I set max tech level to 5. This is a strange bug that seems to happen hit and miss for me. When I had this happen to me I was playing as rebs and I couldn't steal tech to buy B-Wings, the mon cal frigate, and etc. I also wasn't able to use Luke. :(

---When you DO get Luke in a GC game, one of his special abilities in a space battle is still the "lucky shot". However it doesn't seem to work as whenever I click on it to use against an hardpoint on an enemy ship it acts as if I clicked on nothing. In other words, the ability seems to not be activated or something.

---Random events doesn't seem to work. I have made extra certain that I have activated it in each GC game that I have started and I never get random events to occur.

---What happened to Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade? :(

lukeiamyourdad
11-02-2006, 08:11 PM
Two. I think they should make a New Republic expansion instead of Clone Wars, it'd be the first New Republic/Yuuzhan Vong game!

Keep on topic. This isn't about another expansion, it's about suggestions that can fit into a patch.

Darth Khasei
11-02-2006, 08:16 PM
Kyle and Mara are still in the game, just killed both in a skirmish last nite LOL1

Darth_Extas
11-02-2006, 10:45 PM
For one thing, the Vengence Frigates seem fine to me they are one of the Underworld's advantages. Mass Drive is fine, without their current power the ship would be useless. also Vatler, try being prepared for it next time, when I have played as the consoritorium I have been able to do that with a few heroes, so you have to be ready for anything (land base must have been low). The Aggressor and Keldabe cannot be build everywhere, read the planet discriptions in the manual, I have not been able to build them everywhere.

_x_Darth-Max_x_
11-03-2006, 03:26 AM
crud that's embarrissin'


Indeed ;)

Anyways , i think that the Executor should get a Abillity that allows vader to get out of the Executor in his Tie advanced ( To make it fair u could only have the abillity when the Executor has taken serious damage)

lordzack
11-03-2006, 01:05 PM
Indeed ;)

Anyways , i think that the Executor should get a Abillity that allows vader to get out of the Executor in his Tie advanced ( To make it fair u could only have the abillity when the Executor has taken serious damage)

Or at any time you want.

Valter
11-03-2006, 03:01 PM
For one thing, the Vengence Frigates seem fine to me they are one of the Underworld's advantages. Mass Drive is fine, without their current power the ship would be useless. also Vatler, try being prepared for it next time, when I have played as the consoritorium I have been able to do that with a few heroes, so you have to be ready for anything (land base must have been low). The Aggressor and Keldabe cannot be build everywhere, read the planet discriptions in the manual, I have not been able to build them everywhere.

"Valter" not "Vatler." ;)

It has nothing to do with being "unprepared." I had three Star Destroyers (including Thrawn) and numerous Tartans and TIE Defenders but I was unable to defeat five Vengeance frigates and three Crusaders. I had all of my star destroyers target one Vengeance at a time while having my Defenders attack the mass drivers. One of the Vengeance frigates exploded and effectivally destroyed all of my Defenders and the others were being pounded by my destroyers but were taking little to no damage at all. The TIE bombers were blown out of the way by the mass drivers and their missiles were intercepted by point-defense lasers.

I am not complaining about the abilities of the Vengeance, just the fact that they are practically invincible.

jedi jim 1989
11-03-2006, 03:40 PM
sorry double post, please delete

There's a delete button when you edit your posts :) -LIAYD

jedi jim 1989
11-03-2006, 03:40 PM
well i agree that they are extremly strong but they dont have a shield, and id suggest that you should have held all your units near your space station, grouped your bombers and fighters for protection and swing around their flank, take the courvettes out wit you imp stars, then when there gone your bombers are safe enough, i know that the mass drivers take them out well but if you just mass them, and send them in from behind then you wil be safe.

that is one good thing about them, they cant fire there mass drivers in any direction other then forwards, meanin if you can get behind them and stay there, you just worry about those turbo lasers, which wont be a problem.

by the way i hop that you dont think im flaming you, im not, just offering some advice

Valter
11-04-2006, 03:06 PM
I understand, but there are some problems with the strategies you listed.

-I was attacking, not defending, so I had no space station at that time.

-It's pretty hard to flank the Vengeance frigates with those Crusaders covering them with point-defense-lasers.

-The Crusaders are very small targets so the Star Destroyers have a hard time hitting them with their turbolasers. More Crusaders keep hyperspacing in once a Crusader is destroyed anyway. (They are garrison units)

-TIE bombers are slow, therefore they are destroyed very quickly by the mass drivers, besides that, the Crusaders destroy any bombers that make it behind the Vengeance frigates.

-If I group my fighters and bombers together the Vengeance frigate simply self-destructs and destroys all of my fighters.

-If I use a screen of TIE interceptors to cover my TIE bombers then my Destroyers are vulnerable to attack by Skiprays.

I appreciate the help Jedi Jim, but I've tried numerous strategies and the only ones that seem to work is to use the Death Star or bring in the Executor.

Darth Khasei
11-04-2006, 04:42 PM
The black market weapons for the ZC are better. It is not a bug it was meant to be. Play balance is exactly how it should be IMHO.

The "only" change that "might" be valid is in space skirmish only. They "might" want to consider making the ZC buy the black market enhancements and not start off with them. Other than that Imps and Rebs will just need to face the fact the ZC is here and they need to fight differently than they do when facing each other.

I wish they would do the Vong war era, oh maybe not based on all the whinning about the ZC's power, can't imagine the screams of bloody murder as those SSD's bite the dust ;)

darthcarth
11-04-2006, 08:04 PM
Darth khasei think about this the empire uses the illegal weapons that they say civilians cant not use so does the rebelion. It doesnt make sence that the corupt side can get different tech from stealing from the empire/rebelion. The other 2 sides are not idiots zan is over powered his tech was never made, They made itimbalanced because they only thought of making the corupt side "cool".

popcorn2008
11-04-2006, 10:25 PM
Regarding the "Revolt" corruption, I dont think its overpowered at all. Just DONT remove the corruption and a revolt won't occur. It's just one of those things you have to put up with. On planets with Corrupt Militia its your job not to build a huge space station and ground base.

Darth Khasei
11-04-2006, 11:47 PM
Darth khasei think about this the empire uses the illegal weapons that they say civilians cant not use so does the rebelion. It doesnt make sence that the corupt side can get different tech from stealing from the empire/rebelion. The other 2 sides are not idiots zan is over powered his tech was never made, They made itimbalanced because they only thought of making the corupt side "cool".

LOL! Dude the fact that the Rebs use CP3O to steal plans so the rebs can build T4B's that own empires repulsors is the same thing. Meaning its a game function, not to be taken any other way period.

In terms of strength of other factions vs Imps and rebs I have some personal opinions on why all the uproar. I just like the fact that Petro had the huevos to make the ZC a faction that is as tough to deal with as RL crime lords. Kudos to you Petro, ZC rocks, now all we need is the Vong's :)

Darth Ablett
11-05-2006, 12:43 AM
The day they make a Vong expansion to any SW game is the day that game series dies, IMO.

On topic, I don't think this is the patch to make any big changes (IG-88 aka Captain Broken), just to fix the bugs in the game. The adding can come after they have cleaned up the game. Oh, and a tiny bit of balancing the Consortium fighters. Tone down the StarVipers, and increase the cost of the Skiprays.

darthcarth
11-05-2006, 01:02 AM
Let me think darth khasei is thier any crimelord that could stand up to the U.S. no, has their every been probbaly not maybe during the colonail days, i agree zans faction should be balanced but shouldnt be better then the empire, now if u want to talk realism the the empire should have thousands of sders lets see zans 50 ship force beat that.

Darth Khasei
11-05-2006, 01:10 AM
Let me think darth khasei is thier any crimelord that could stand up to the U.S. no, has their every been probbaly not maybe during the colonail days, i agree zans faction should be balanced but shouldnt be better then the empire, now if u want to talk realism the the empire should have thousands of sders lets see zans 50 ship force beat that.


Hmm, I'm not going to get political about the US, but if you don't think oil baron crime lords run the US, I feel for you. All of that kind of stuff will become clearer to you as you get older mate, no worries.

The last part of your post indicates the clear misunderstanding many share with you about the ZC and how it is suppose to fit into the EAW:FOC world. I would ask if you played the campaign, but it matters not as it clearly goes through the steps, tactics, strategies and reasons how and why the ZC comes to power, check it out ;)

darthcarth
11-05-2006, 01:56 AM
If they do it is only because the us chooses to do so.

I saw how he came to power, even then the imperail fleet would have been at large, the fact that he could destroy a ssder is bogus, i hateo say it but petro disapointed me with the story it should have been different and it should have been a heck of alot longer.

Now on to balance u still havent answered my question why would the imperails have superior tech, after all they use it them selves theout law the ilegal stuff to give them selves a advantage.

Now none of this matters as it is a game but still he should be in line with the other factions and thats what we are hoping for in the next patch.

Wolfenstein1942
11-05-2006, 02:35 AM
LOL@ "oil barons run this country"

We haven't sunk that far mind you. I've nothing against cyncism until it because so extreme/radical that it skews your view like it has done to yours.

Darth Khasei
11-05-2006, 04:10 AM
LOL@ "oil barons run this country"

We haven't sunk that far mind you. I've nothing against cyncism until it because so extreme/radical that it skews your view like it has done to yours.


I started to write you a pm but I think every should be aware about the truth. Do just a "little" digging for info for yourself. It is out there in the public domain. Don't think that you are getting the truth from the 6:00pm news because you are only getting what the corporate interest want you to get. It is not radical by any means, but it is the truth and sometimes the truth is painful and nasty. And yes governments "do" lie to their citizens.

Once again age, experience and time will show the truth, not propaganda or blindness to the truth ;)

Darth Khasei
11-05-2006, 04:16 AM
If they do it is only because the us chooses to do so.

I saw how he came to power, even then the imperail fleet would have been at large, the fact that he could destroy a ssder is bogus, i hateo say it but petro disapointed me with the story it should have been different and it should have been a heck of alot longer.

Now on to balance u still havent answered my question why would the imperails have superior tech, after all they use it them selves theout law the ilegal stuff to give them selves a advantage.

Now none of this matters as it is a game but still he should be in line with the other factions and thats what we are hoping for in the next patch.

Well the entire thing is all make believe from GL and the guys at Petro's head anyway, so bogus stories and plot props etc.. should be expected. In addition, the story seems fine to me, probably since I am not tied to the Imps or rebs the way some are in the SW world. :)

I am more than sure all of those that hate the plot and the power of the ZC etc.. ad nauseum will pony up and mod the game to their hearts desire for release of even their own personal use. This way all of the ppl that could do a better job than Petro will rise to the top...... Waiting patiently :lol:

YertyL
11-05-2006, 08:25 AM
Well, what do you think about this:
It's a strategy game; all factions should be different to play with but have an equal chance of winning.
Period.

Daspaz
11-05-2006, 03:43 PM
-Stay on topic.
-We're too close!
-STAY ON TOPIC!
-Loosen up!
-*Explodes*
-Gold Five to Red leader, lost Khasei, lost Carth. They came from... behind!

Seriously, you guys are great and all, but keep this conversation out of this thread please. Can we get back to bug reports for the patch?

Some excellent bug catches have been made already here, congrats on spotting them gang. I'll add a coupe more here...
- The rebels don't fire ground based ion cannons in GC. (May have been mentioned already, if so sorry for the dupe) I haven't played a full GC with Rebels yet, don't know if the Imps fire hypervelocity guns.
- When attacking Bespin with the DSII, your fleet warps INTO the DS. It needs to be moved to a different part of the map or have its altitude changed.
- The Admonitor (Thrawn) doesen't have correct collision detection; he clips through other ISDs and the Executor sometimes.
- Speaking of the Admonitor, its tractor beam isn't an auto-fire ability as it is on other ISDs (Bug).
- (This is more of a balance issue/opinion than a bug) Vader is no longer a viable land unit since the Executor is too valuable to lose, even temporarily. I'd MUCH rather keeping him as he was before and making Piett the Executor. I believe it would work very well as right now the Empire gets 3 hero Capital ships whereas the other sides get only 1, and Piett commanded the Executor in canon anyway. Thrawn more than makes up for losing Piett as an ISD, and the Empire STILL would have more hero capital ships than the others at 2. Not having Vader in land battles really cracks down on the ability to counter Luke/Yoda/Obi-Wan being thrown at you.
- Again more of an opinion, but I'll add my voice to the crowd saying that Vengeance frigates have too many hit points. Its my belief that any ship that can cloak to move around to attack a capital ship from behind with high-powered weapons should have a glass jaw.
- In GC, I often see the AI leave ground-only hero units in space because there are already 10 units on the surface. Last time I played they kept moving their last remaining significant space fleet around with Obi-wan, Luke and Yoda in it, and wouldn't leave them on a planet's surface. When I attacked them finally (I was waiting for the AI to get them out of the space fleet since I WANTED to fight them on the ground, but it didn't happen) there was a Neb-B with all three of them on it, which the AI proceeded to throw at a wall of my ISDs. I actually felt sad for those guys, and really lame when I destroyed that ship. That's just one example but I see it often. Keep Yoda/Obi-wan/others out of space fleets!

jedi7000nathan
11-05-2006, 04:21 PM
more consortiom heros

darthcarth
11-05-2006, 04:32 PM
Accauly i think that should be the least of our worrys atm.

YertyL
11-05-2006, 06:12 PM
IMO the shields of consortium buildings need to be toned down a bit. The shield of a consortium palast regenerates as fast as 2 artillery units harm it!!

ImpElite
11-05-2006, 06:50 PM
Accauly i think that should be the least of our worrys atm.

I second that, (I probably have pretty much no right to post here since I don't own FOC yet) but could we empower the Rebel's Orbital Bombardment a bit? Everyone says it's really weak

Rust_Lord
11-05-2006, 08:48 PM
After a bit of play testing over the weekend (most game time was dominated by CoH which has REAL balance) I am going to turn things on their head a bit, from what I said before. I think the main thing that unbalances the ZC is their income and if this was corrected then their units COULD be left as is. But I am talking seriously hampering what they can produce now. If their cost was accurate and their income equal to the other factions then I think the problem would be solved.

The Scenario: While in Skirmish on the Endor map I tried the last strategy I had left to try; holding off the ZC until I had access to ISDs and then counter attacking. Now the Endor map has 5 mines. I held control of 3 and the the fourth (in the middle of the map) for a good period until the ZC started to advance in force and destroyed it. They never made use of this mine as I had a unit which could observe it. So they had *ONE* mine and their supply depot. I tested it and a supply depot brings in 300 credits a minute. Each mine brings in approx 1100 credits a minute. So I was getting at least three times more income as the ZC (in theory). I was able to tech up to 5 and bring on Thrawn. All the while I had to fend off multiple small attacks which I did easily. I thought I had half a chance.

HOWEVER very shortly after I brought on Thrawn, I spot an Aggressor closing in with support. How were they able to tech up and afford this craft you ask while still keeping me busy with Vengeance Fr, Int IVs and Star Vipers? I have no idea. But wait it gets worse. Certain I could repel the Aggressor my confidence was high but this quickly turned to despair as out of hyperspace behind the lead aggressor arrived two more! I had only just been able to tech up and get Thrawn and they have **3** cap ships, and they bought on a fourth after I destoryed one! Yet their ships and upgrades are supposed to be expensive too. Needless to say I had lost two of my mines by then, one i go back but they did this all on ONE FRIGGIN MINE! I can't contain my anger with this game anymore. Its shelved until PG fix this crap and I will vote with my wallet and not buy any my PG guff again. If crime pays then I guess its okay for me to resort to crime too and pirate any future PG releases and save me paying for buggy and unbalanced software, especially when its inferior to some of the mods getting around! Boo to you PG.

SaintVezner
11-05-2006, 09:52 PM
I have played a SP GC game as the rebels for quite a while now. I have yet to see a hypervelocity gun fire at my ships. Just an observation.

I also have a new concern with the rogue squadron disappearing bug. What are you supposed to do when the Empire builds the Death Star? Without Rogue squadron the rebs have no way of destroying the DS unless the consortium uses IG88 to do it.

BTW, in my GC game the empire AI has started building the Death Star twice now and cancelled production after a few seconds each time. WTH? The only nice thing about them stopping production from my perspective is the fact that my Rogue squadron disappeared from the game a long time ago and I would have no way of destroying the DS.

Rust_Lord
11-05-2006, 11:35 PM
I might just make a small clarrification too; its not simply the ZC that is the issue. I encounter the same issue (unreal income) in skirmish with any faction on medium (I havent dared play Hard after trying Med), it's just that due to the superiority of the ZC units that this effect is magnified. I know its something of an exploit if your able to grab all of the mines early in the game and have complete dominance, but rather than give the computer an improper income just to compete, fix the AI so it goes after mines and defends them rather than what is nothing more than cheating.

YertyL
11-06-2006, 01:43 PM
btw. I made a threat concerning the bugs of FOC here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=172014)
They should be fixed as well...

Dreng
11-06-2006, 01:51 PM
more GC scenarios...

SAGEKING-PG
11-06-2006, 03:14 PM
Thanks for these suggestions, I will definitely have our designers check this out :)

Darth Khasei
11-06-2006, 05:02 PM
more GC scenarios...

We can make our own really easily by modding one of the ones already there. I happen to play the game with my modded GC's most of the time so I could help you if you want.

What additional kinds of GC would you like?

PoiuyWired
11-06-2006, 05:11 PM
Actually I think that the center of the problem is not FoC's ZC but the way E@W handles income for AIs, which does not depend on any income generating facility like the players, in other words, CHEATED INCOME. As we know it the computer seems to be able to bring in ships like they are free, and have little to no production time sometimes.

Now being Imps or Rebels this might be ok, as even the rebels have a somewhat rigid line of terratory, and both of them have a relatively balanced space force with similar cost. So even as the income is cheated, things can be managed due to population cap and what not. Even then many players have faced legions of speceforce not possable by ordinary means of production.

The ZC however is different in that they have more powerful ships, which is being balanced by their COST. Now add this to the computer's way of generating income this can be downright wicked. The ZC brings the problem to surface, rather than being the cause of the problem.

I mean, in skirmish where the corruption money is hardly in effect the ZC is still vastly more powerful in the hands of the AI dur to their INCOME more than anything else, as shown by the examples above. My own experiance is only similar, where the computer brings in a constant stream of ships despite one destroyed depot which is sometimes even destroyed.

I don't think nerfing ZC is the solution. ZC's design is supposed to be a bit more powerful ship to ship, being more elite in terms of individual.

Max Outrider
11-06-2006, 07:29 PM
Its shelved until PG fix this crap.

I just did the same thing :P. Bought FoC today, played a GC as the Rebels, got majorly annoyed with the huge amounts of bugs and the seriously FUBARed Zann special abilities. I didn't even finish the game, I quit with just 5 planets left to capture. Removed the disc from the drive, put it back into the box and put it on a shelf until a patch is released.

Some things I noticed from playing that one single GC are:
No matter how fast I remove corruption from my planets, Zann corrupts them even faster. A game of cat and mouse ensues after a while.
I owned the world of Dathomir right from the start. Zann corrupted it and somehow put a fleet in orbit without the game asking if I wanted to fight it (as I had a station at level 5 + a defence fleet in orbit). I moved an assault fleet into position to attack the enemy fleet and ended up fighting the enemy fleet plus my own level 5 station.
Zann level 4-5 stations are massively over powered compared to Rebel and Imperial stations.
Auto resolve is MAJORLY f'ed up. I had one situation where I took a fleet against a level 4 Zann station, auto resolved and has zero losses. Took the same fleet against a level 5 Zann station and lost half my fleet (which was massive btw).
Rebels can't get tech for any level 5 items (B-wing and MC30), I assume this is down to the devs forgetting that they programmed Rebels not to go past level 4 in the original game and not changing it for FoC.
I stole some tech for some ground unit but was never able to build it. I hate ground combat so it didn't really matter to me, but still it should be there.
The Empire did absolutely nothing until the very end. I left a few worlds on their border unguarded whle chasing down Zann which they stole.
The Ai for the sides is totally out of whack. I was playing on Easy (as is tradition with a new game, play on easy so you can get the feel then yank it up to hard) and the Empire still had the original game Ai for easy so they didn't build anything bigger than a Victory class. Zann on the other hand built everything and in large numbers. I was regularly fending off his best stuff. I think the only reason the Empire Ai survived the battle was because I took the fight to Zann right from the word go.
Sabotage..........god I hate sabotage. It was going off constantly, and most of the time it was 4 or more going off at once. No human can set off more than 1 at the same time in two different places on a map so the Ai shouldn't be able to either. Plus it is really really pathetic. It does nothing to me other than be an annoying feature. The Ai doesn't use it as a softening up job just before an invasion, it just does it randomly around the map to piss me off.
Win conditions are f'ed up. I killed Zann around 13 times total. Lord knows how many times I killed the rest of his crew. I also killed the Emperor 4 times. As I thought I wasn't winning due to killing them in auto-resolve, I actually fought 1 of the battles against the Emperor. I caught him at Kuat cruising around in a Tartan. Went on the map, the pilot guy says that this is an opportunity we can't miss to take out the Emperor and win.....kill the Emperor.......nothing happens. I never captured all the planets to find out if that was how I was supposed to win as I quit after realising that Zann could cheat.
Zann cheats :P. I cornered his organisations on their last 2 worlds up in the top corner of the map. There was zero way for him to escape...........then suddenly he has control of one of my heavily fortified worlds in the centre of the map. WTF!? There was nothing saying the world was being taken, nothing about whether I wanted to auto-resolve the battle or anything. The world had a level 5 station and fleet, plus was defended on the ground too (so no sneaky raids). There wasn't even any corruption left on the map, other than the 2 worlds I had trapped the ZC on, so he couldn't have snuck there via the corruption lines.

Edit:
Some things people have said needs fixing that I don't think need fixing......the militia rebellion and the strengths of the Zann space units. Militia rebellion is just an annoyance. While I wish there was some way to prevent it, in the end it doesn't do anything but bug me. None of the worlds that Zann kicked me off were anywhere near his stuff for him to take. Plus I just took them back in a split second anyway.
Space unit balance is just about right. Granted level 4 and 5 Zann stations are way too powerful compared to Rebel and Imperial ones, but that is a station and not a unit. I could fend Zann off quite happily with limited forces, no matter what he threw at me. Things got bigger and bigger and I just had to develop new tricks to deal with them. I only lost a world to an invasion once and that was just bad timing (as I had taken some of the world defence to bolster an assault fleet moving to take one of his worlds :P).

Darth Ablett
11-06-2006, 09:34 PM
Its shelved until PG fix this crap.

I was really psyched to go out and buy this game on the weekend, but posts like that made me hold off. I think it's good this community tells it like it is, a great deal of this feedback seems sincere rather than normal forum whining.

I guess it's just disappointing that, at the end of the day, this expansion was seriously rushed.

I may not end up buying FoC for a long time, if it lacks so much polish.

ImpElite
11-06-2006, 09:47 PM
I don't think it's going to take too too long for PG to get a patch out >_> a few weeks, a month or two maybe at high.

Darth Khasei
11-06-2006, 10:28 PM
Yeah there are some bugs in the story campaign like the rebel tech 5 issue. That and other little nicks and nacks are going to be patched as stated in the Petro forums.

However, some of the things listed here and by other players like the corruption getting on their nerves etc.. are actual game functions(and some are beneficial in ways) and are not going to change.

There is no way the game was rushed and that becomes apparent in the story campaign. This is a game of MANY favors like a neoploitian ice cream sandwich. It so happens that the favorite flavor of the many is space multiplayer from the Imps or Rebs side. It happens that flavor needs a separate amount and different balance that singleplayer vs the AI. It is also understandable that seeing your side get bested by the new faction is annoying. The other aspect of the game(ie other flavors) are superb. GC with 3 factions with 55 planets can't be touched it rocks!

However, even with some tweaks that "are" coming like toning down the Starvipers a bit and making the cost of the BM upgrades MUCH more expensive for the ZC, there is still going to be a LARGE amount of that guerilla warfare(ie. sabtoage, corruption) to deal with because both the rebels and the ZC have that as one of their strengths.

The game is FAR from broke in GC and land skirmish FAR. Of course I enjoy these flavors and have spent tons of time since the release consuming as much of the good thing as possible.

Darth Ablett
11-06-2006, 10:38 PM
The fact that many sound files are incorrect, the Consortium can build capital ships anywhere in certain modes, Rebel tech glitch, etc. These are symptoms of a larger problem: rushed game design.

Also, not having many bugs in a short campaign mode - the most linear of all the modes - further demonstrates that this is a lack of polish.

I have no doubt PG could fix these, but if they were rushed to a quick deadline these sloppy mistakes get made. (KOTOR II, anyone?)

The idea that that this complaining is because people think the Consortium shouldn't be a powerful faction is a pretty shallow one IMO.

Darth Khasei
11-07-2006, 12:15 AM
Truthfully, you sound like you don't have the game dude, so I understand some of the uninformed things you are saying. No worries.

In terms of looking at the campaign(of course you would need to have the game to notice these things), the "overal" polish "is" there nick nacks aside. Some of those cut scenes in and in-between missions show it as well as how well the single player GC and land skirmish actually play out.

Actually the two things you mentioned are basically syntax errors that are easy to fix with notepad and have already been changed by one of the guys in the modders forum. Ok, so they were sloppy yadda yadda :smash:

I never said nor implied that the only complaints were because of the ZC's power. However, all you have to do is open your eyes and read the comments where many regular imp and reb players have stated that the ZC should be the weakest of all, it is there in the public domain. :)

Rust_Lord
11-07-2006, 01:48 AM
Thanks for these suggestions, I will definitely have our designers check this out :)

Thanks SageKing its good to know PG is on top of it, and that you guys are also listening to all the feedback, positive and negative. I will admit I can be a hard and nasty jerk sometimes, and while generally very passive when I go off I can make Palpatine look like a school girl BUT I know that this game is very good and is not far from being perfect AND can be easily fixed. After all the hard work and great ideas that went into this game I do not want to see it flop or not satisfy its legion of fans....so never take my rages personal. Im just frustrated that some fairly obvious issues werent spotted before.

As I stated today in the consortium heroes thread I dont have a problem with ZC having the nastiest stuff as long as its outnumbered and expensive. My main gripe is with skirmish but I can see how some people feel about GC. I have only played a short campaign and would really need to play a longer one to really see what people are experiencing but I would hope that the funky way the ZC operates is not totally abandoned. Thats the heart and soul of the faction.

Darth Khasei
11-07-2006, 05:14 AM
Ok, found a bug :) Not, just an omission. :freakout:

I was adding Mandalorian Bio-Commandos :clap2: to the ZC and I remembered that when I corrupted Mon Calamari and took the slavery option no slaves became avaliable like on other planets like the Twei'lks etc.

I use the special corruption units file to add my stuff and saw there is NO entry for Mon Calamari slaves eventhough you pay for slavery option in game. So of course I just added them in, because their is an indigenous model for them in the game already.

Another oversite by the Petro team, they should all be drawn and quarted :halo2:

Darth Ablett
11-07-2006, 05:18 AM
If there is a wide variety of small bugs in any area of the game I would say that's a lack of polish. Whether or not it can be fixed by the user is irrelevant.

I said that the campaign is polished by all reports, however this is something that would be tested first, and can be tested far more quickly. It is easier to control than a fully open scenario (GC) after all. It's the multiplayer, and more 'minor' modes - skirmish - that have been the subject of gripes by large sections of the community.

The fact that small, easily fixed bugs make it through to retail is a lack of testing, almost always due to time constraints. I honestly don't think petro are sloppy; rather they were rushed. You don't see these sort of things en masse in a Blizzard game, because they always delay release until they are certain of quality. Maybe petro don't have this luxury yet, I don't know.

All up, Petro are very good in working with the community, and they'll fix up these things fairly soon. I'll just hold off buying FoC until this is done, so I can play a finalised product.

EDIT: The above is kinda OT, sorry guys. In other news, one of the devs over at the Petroglyph Forums (Delphi) has said the patch notes will be coming "in the next week or so". :)

Darth Khasei
11-07-2006, 11:39 AM
Hard to take a person seriously about something they don't have any personal experience with and only read about, but they know all about it, yeah right ok. When you get the game make sure to report all the little bugs you read about here :compcry:

ImpElite
11-07-2006, 11:45 AM
good idea.

PoiuyWired
11-07-2006, 03:53 PM
The campaign itself is fine and rarely glitchy (except for that one part but fortunately I did not get the glitch as I play it)

Many of the mistakes are simple xml stuff.

I think the only true big mistake is the whole tech-up problem with Rebel, but no doubt it would be fixed in the patch.

And, we all know that the whole auto-resolve thing is really unreliable and random, so its kinda meaningless to whine about it. I mean, if you want some assurance just throw the game on fast and let your whole fleet rush the target, you will probably do better than auto-resolve most of the time if you have a big fleet.

Dreng
11-08-2006, 01:01 PM
The AI doesnt build any turbolaser tower or shields would be nice if the will so conquering a planet will be more of a challenge :mad:

jedi jim 1989
11-08-2006, 04:37 PM
well to be onest. i like all factions, and ssd'd arnt that tough, the lusankya was taken out by a couple of imp star deuces and some freighters........... to be onest as long as you compile a force to cover all angles youll live. for instance the fighters and bombers, just send lots of tartans, you may loose them against there cap ships but then you jump in yours. as far as i c it, you have to make some sacrifices and make sure you have a strong force covering all posible oponnent compositions


thats my view but flame me if you feel you need to

Rust_Lord
11-08-2006, 07:41 PM
Now my rage has settled a few other things to point out for PG:
* I hear they are already going to tone down the StarViper. Good. Its faster and more manueverable than an Interceptor, tougher than an Xwing, and has a nasty special ability. They are tough enough to withstand a pass by a corvette whereas other starfighters get shredded.
*I would SERIOUSLY be looking at the cost of Keldabe capital ship. They seem a tad cheap and need to be more expensive. Two of these drained the shields on a lvl 4/5 station in mere seconds and they have more weaponry than either and ISD or MC (4 TL, 2 IC, a special weapon an mass driver), with a backup engine hardpoint. These ships are simply awesome. Should be about 6K in skirmish.
*Before I went on strike I played origins of corruption GC. When i played as the Empire I captured a planet off the ZC and when it returned to the galactic screen my two units (Fett and Emperor) who participated in the battle were no longer visible or selectable, nor did the planet change from ZC control to Empire control. I loaded a save game and replayed the mission and I received 2 Fetts! (Got a screenshot of it) However once the battle was over the Fett clone disappeared.

jedi jim 1989
11-09-2006, 10:54 AM
ok i just noticed something. vaders ssd doesnt take up unit pop, is that ment to happen? also when he is in ground combat he takes up 2 spaces, where as the emporer and other heros take 1, is this a bug or is it suppose to happen? and has anyone else noticed this?

Dreng
11-09-2006, 07:07 PM
in the planets where bribe? (dunno the name in english) the one who dont allow to produce garrison units well the space station of the consortium didnt produce fighters the ISD's didnt produce TIEs....dunno if its intended btw the juggernaut is pretty weak a misile tower of the consortium can kill a juggernaut even when the point laser defense systems are activated...so is useless

Yesh
11-09-2006, 07:34 PM
I've noticed my units have a habit of getting stuck at points. For example in GC on Bothawai, Yoda was destroying a Consortium bunker but after destroying it, would not move. He was stuck in that spot. Then last night the same thing happened in Skirmish on Felucia. The water by the imperial base, Obi-Wan got stuck. Luckily I was able to land a gallofree near him and airlift him out. But then yoda did the same thing, and I mistakenly sent in Garm and they BOTH got stuck.

This happened in EAW as well when Vader was by a buildpad.

Shadue
11-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Not a bug, and not even sure is possible to "patch" into the game, but veterancy to units.

Feel free to read up on my 1.06 recommendation

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=168137

Shadue
11-09-2006, 08:30 PM
Grr... 30 second wait but still posted.

*edit deleted double post*

Rust_Lord
11-09-2006, 08:35 PM
I've noticed my units have a habit of getting stuck at points.

Yes I have noticed on some maps, not only units, but whole groups of the local population are stuck even though their animation has them running. I cant remember which maps now but this during Origins of Corruption GC.

SaintVezner
11-09-2006, 09:34 PM
I take back my earlier comment about never seeing the hypervolcity gun in a GC game. I attacked Corellia and it was used against me. :)

TearsOfIsha
11-10-2006, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure if this was a bug, but I'm sick of this business when you clear corruption from a world and destroys your space station and all structures. That was silly.

And I'd like some E-Wings and K-Wings - X-Wings get eaten alive by the hundereds of new imperial fighters and the B-Wings are virtually useless. I'm still using Y-Wings because at least they cost less.

Oh yeah, and I would like an end to the tired old "10 ISDs" invasion fleets that the Empire keep pulling. After half an hour of play in GC, Yavin 4 was attacked by a fleet that was made upf of Piett's and Thrawn's ISDs, the Arc Hammer and 8 vanilla ISDs AT THE SAME TIME. Come on petro, this is supposed to be a game, i.e. there is some chance of winning......

Bleh, I think I'll go off and play Dark Crusade. At least Relic are familiar with the concept of 'balance'.

ImpElite
11-10-2006, 10:33 AM
Wowee, I hope the patch is released on the 21st or soon after.

BTW welcome to the forums, TearsOfIsha! :)

TearsOfIsha
11-10-2006, 03:04 PM
Wowee, I hope the patch is released on the 21st or soon after.

BTW welcome to the forums, TearsOfIsha! :)

Thank you, hello to you :)

wedge2211
11-10-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm not sure if this was a bug, but I'm sick of this business when you clear corruption from a world and destroys your space station and all structures. That was silly.
The game manual does mention that if you remove corruption on a world where the Consortium has corrupted the militia, the world will revolt and become neutral. Seems like a funny thing to happen with 100% certainty to me (if you have a full garrison on the planet you'd think you could have some chance to put down a rebellion), but it's an interesting game mechanic. Especially since the Rebels and Imperials do derive some benefit from corruption...

TearsOfIsha
11-10-2006, 05:07 PM
The game manual does mention that if you remove corruption on a world where the Consortium has corrupted the militia, the world will revolt and become neutral. Seems like a funny thing to happen with 100% certainty to me (if you have a full garrison on the planet you'd think you could have some chance to put down a rebellion), but it's an interesting game mechanic. Especially since the Rebels and Imperials do derive some benefit from corruption...

A full garrison? How does 3 companies of T-4Bs, Torpedo Artillery, Hovertanks, Infiltrators, Troops and T-47s, plus Luke, Yoda and Garm Bel Iblis grab you?

It's not 'interesting', it's blatant cheating. Perhaps next the Rebels get the ability to land full armies in raids? Give me a break.

Oh yeah, and another thing which could do with fixing for the next patch - lets have a proper "enemy fleet approaching" message. EaW's one was fine. I'm sick of hearing about the evil ysalamiri are coming to lay the smackdown on my underpowered fleets. Some people may think that the glitch is funny - I personally think it was amateurish. The testing team must have been off sick when this thing was rushed out the door.

thon77
11-12-2006, 07:03 AM
not sure if this is a bug or "feature", but in multiplayer GC when i invade some worlds i won't start with any population flags. so my pop is 1/0, and only expandable if i landed troopers. and it's next to impossible to conquer the world if the enemy rushes you. i definitely recall it happening on Kamino in the map Clusters when i was empire.

Naso
11-12-2006, 04:18 PM
I know this is old news, but the expansion makes it even worse, so could SOMETHING be done to make the ISD less worthless? A second shield generator hardpoint maybe, one for each tower?

jedi7000nathan
11-12-2006, 09:10 PM
any one have any ideas to make fix to the Random Events

darthcarth
11-12-2006, 09:46 PM
Yeah that would be a good thing but after they fix the balance and game breaking bugs.

Rust_Lord
11-13-2006, 12:07 AM
Bleh, I think I'll go off and play Dark Crusade. At least Relic are familiar with the concept of 'balance'.

Ive been playing this alot and I dont know about that. Its a damn side more balanced than FoC thats for sure AND bug free, touch wood, but for me the Necrons are pretty damn cheap. Try playing bloodshed ally 3v3 against three standard computer necrons and see how you go...anyway this isnt relic forums so i will get on to what i wanted to write.

There is a couple of opinions on here I just want to reply too and since the patch is probably well under way, put out a few ideas for consideration by not just devs but the community. I know they cant change things to exactly reflect canon but they can at least resemble canon.

The opinion that the rebels got duped in the expansion with their space units..well, yeah, sort of. They didnt need a heap of extra space units because they were already well balanced. Rogue Sdqn cant really compete with Thrawn I agree but they are much more obtainable, costing less than half. For a comment on the B-Wing see below.

Corrupt Militia/planetary take over thing...It goes to the heart of how the ZC operates but having no control over it really is lame. There is a way around it and thats simply to leave it. However as a player said they had a large garrison there and it went down without a fight. That is ridiculous. Seeing as the ZC is so wealthy, it could be an idea to introduce a cost to the ZC to take over a planet when a revolt begins, the reason being that it will cost money to finance the revolt. The larger the garrison the more it will cost to finance the revolt.

Sabotage ability: This is just plain annoying. I was losing up to three buildings PER day during certain periods in a GC. I dont think sabotage should be removed entirely but it is way overdone. If i didnt have a war chest of about 80,000 credits I would have been forced out of the galaxy by defilers alone.

IG-88: Already written about the Death Star issue. He seemed to like wasting his time by eliminating spare probe droids I had. Note to all: keep minor heroes handy for bait!

Heres a few handy suggests for PG...
Vengeance Frigates: take note of all the talk. These things need to be a little less tough. Seeing as Mass drivers are projectile weapons not energy, maybe give them limited ammunition???

ZC space stations: way too tough. If the blue pulse plasma cannons and mass drivers dont get you the standard lasers and protons will. They can slaughter fighters and bombers and therefore have no real weakness. Shields seem to be greater with better recharge than other factions.

Star Vipers: Too fast and maneuverable. They are superior in every respect to other fighters.

Keldabe: Shield leach ability should be toned down. Need to cost a little more too me thinks.

Int IV: Needs an engine hardpoint because its a bit on the fast side and every other frigate has one giving these things unparalleled speed.

Interdictor: They are useless in skirmish unless their decoy missile ability has been improved to have the same effect as IG-88s ability. That would make them useful. Needs a combination of, extra HPs or lasers.

B-Wing: In the xml I spotted they only have the same shield strength as an X-wing. Absolute rubbish. These things need to be flying tanks. Double shield strength and id give them the ion ability.

TiE Defender: Should be the fastest thing in space if it already isnt.

ISDs: I quite like the idea of 2nd shield generator hardpoint. Should receive some more hit points (best in the form of a couple of extra weapons). Jack up the price if need be: 5500 or 6000k is fine by me.

TearsOfIsha
11-13-2006, 06:11 AM
Ive been playing this alot and I dont know about that. Its a damn side more balanced than FoC thats for sure AND bug free, touch wood, but for me the Necrons are pretty damn cheap. Try playing bloodshed ally 3v3 against three standard computer necrons and see how you go...anyway this isnt relic forums so i will get on to what i wanted to write.


Yeah, it has it's problems - but really, going up against 3 Necron armies at the same time? You do like your challenges, don't you :p
Besides, my fave sides in DC are the Tau and the Eldar, and they are textbook cases of balance.


The opinion that the rebels got duped in the expansion with their space units..well, yeah, sort of. They didnt need a heap of extra space units because they were already well balanced. Rogue Sdqn cant really compete with Thrawn I agree but they are much more obtainable, costing less than half.


I'm not really sure what you mean by this. The rogues and thrawn are hero units, and hence they spawn. The fact of the matter is Thrawn has not only a constant effect advantage, but he's a capital ship. Rogues have a temporary boost, and after that, they are at the mercy of every other type of fighter in the game. If petro are going to force me into relying on my heroes to win anything, then I want heroes that are up to the task. The rogues aren't. You're correct in that the rebels didn't need much due to the fact they were balanced - but now, the two other amries have a stagggering arsenal which the rebels simply can't compete with. And to add insult to injury, most of thier hero abilities have been toned down. I.e., the rebels are f**cked.


Corrupt Militia/planetary take over thing...It goes to the heart of how the ZC operates but having no control over it really is lame. There is a way around it and thats simply to leave it. However as a player said they had a large garrison there and it went down without a fight. That is ridiculous. Seeing as the ZC is so wealthy, it could be an idea to introduce a cost to the ZC to take over a planet when a revolt begins, the reason being that it will cost money to finance the revolt. The larger the garrison the more it will cost to finance the revolt.


That was me, and I second your criticism. The idea about financing a revolt is a damn good idea, it puts ZC on equal footing.


Sabotage ability: This is just plain annoying. I was losing up to three buildings PER day during certain periods in a GC. I dont think sabotage should be removed entirely but it is way overdone. If i didnt have a war chest of about 80,000 credits I would have been forced out of the galaxy by defilers alone.


To be honest, I considered this just one of the ZC's more canon abilities. However, I do think the cost of bombing an area that has already been bombed dozens of times already should by incredibly high.


Heres a few handy suggests for PG...
Vengeance Frigates: take note of all the talk. These things need to be a little less tough. Seeing as Mass drivers are projectile weapons not energy, maybe give them limited ammunition???


I don't think we should go that far. The cloaking device on a pirate ship is about as canonesque as turbolaser-equipped Y wings, so that, as far as I care, can go. I don't think it needs an ammunition count - just cut the armour down to the levels of other ships in it's class and it'll be fine.


ZC space stations: way too tough. If the blue pulse plasma cannons and mass drivers dont get you the standard lasers and protons will. They can slaughter fighters and bombers and therefore have no real weakness. Shields seem to be greater with better recharge than other factions.


Yep. There isn't really any excuse for this.


Star Vipers: Too fast and maneuverable. They are superior in every respect to other fighters.


Yeah, I don't mind the idea of StarVipers being used as pirate fighters, but I'm sick of seeing squadrons of full-blown Viragos. To be honest, I think they should be at the same level as everyone else's.


Keldabe: Shield leach ability should be toned down. Need to cost a little more too me thinks.


They can keep it as far as I'm concerned, just so long a similarly large weakness is also put on. Currently it's just a capital ship with all the advantages and no weakness.


Int IV: Needs an engine hardpoint because its a bit on the fast side and every other frigate has one giving these things unparalleled speed.


I agree with you on the same grounds as the stations. This is just pure unbalancing with no reason whatsoever.


Interdictor: They are useless in skirmish unless their decoy missile ability has been improved to have the same effect as IG-88s ability. That would make them useful. Needs a combination of, extra HPs or lasers.


Possibly. Remeber interdictors are only any use in the canon for trapping ships - so I'm not sure if they need any sort of tweaking beyond their HPs and lasers.


B-Wing: In the xml I spotted they only have the same shield strength as an X-wing. Absolute rubbish. These things need to be flying tanks. Double shield strength and id give them the ion ability.


According to the canon, the B-Wing had about as much firepower and shielding as a skipray and could take on Imperial corvettes. Give them that kind of upgrade and we're getting somewhere - what you've mentioned should work.


TiE Defender: Should be the fastest thing in space if it already isnt.


Where'd this come from? I was under the impression the fastest fighters in space were Vigilances and A-Wings.... To be honest, I like this fighter. I think it's a good job.


ISDs: I quite like the idea of 2nd shield generator hardpoint. Should receive some more hit points (best in the form of a couple of extra weapons). Jack up the price if need be: 5500 or 6000k is fine by me.

Doing this would mean that they would be more shielded than Mon Cals, which doesn't make sense. They should have more firepower - i.e., more Turbos.

Lundquist
11-13-2006, 08:26 AM
I can only agree to everything that has been said here. And about the Star Destroyer; if not buffing it up, then how about adding the Imperial-II Star Destroyer?

Tie-Defender: In the Tie-Fighter game it was the fastest ship there, I seem to remember the A-Wing had a speed of 120(forget the unit) and the defender had a speed of 156.

also, is it just me, or does the difficulty slider not affect the ZC? I was playing GC and the constant Corruption and Sabotage was just getting plain annoying, so I changed it to Easy, just so I could get some peace... Or at least I thought I would, the only difference was that the empire got extremely weak, so the ZC completely overran them, and got even stronger :/

All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

TearsOfIsha
11-13-2006, 09:11 AM
Tie-Defender: In the Tie-Fighter game it was the fastest ship there, I seem to remember the A-Wing had a speed of 120(forget the unit) and the defender had a speed of 156.

All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

Nevertheless, in the normal canon the A-Wing was the fastest fighter the rebels had, and was only ever matched by the imperial A-9 Vigilance - which apart from it's speed was basically a crap version of the TIE interceptor. I can't remember the speed in TIE Fighter, it must have been 6 years ago I last played it :(

I'm doing the same thing as you - leaving it on the shelf. Every time I play it I find something else about the Rebels that Petro have fubar'd. Hopefully this patch will do something to reverse the damage - much of the changes that have been suggested are all basically XML. I just wish I'd known about all this crap before I bought it...

It kind of makes me think somewhere along the line that someone on the Petro team turned around and mentioned "Guys, Lucasrts don't like the idea of the Dark Side and the Light Side being up against the WTFPWNING side. We need a new name. What's that? Corrupt? Great, that'll work...." :rolleyes:

ImpElite
11-13-2006, 11:29 AM
Lol, (laughing about Tear's joke thing) anyway about shelving the game because it's inbalanced in a few areas doesn't mean you need to shelve it, you could always play as the Empire or the Consortium if you don't want to be the Rebs.

TearsOfIsha
11-13-2006, 12:52 PM
Or I could just play Dark Crusade and use the Tau and Eldar armies. I don't do bad guys..... ;)

Naso
11-13-2006, 08:09 PM
It is pretty crazy. I played a skirmish against hard ZC AI as Empire, my first one, and had 4 mines vs their one for most of the game, and still lost Piett and Thrawn 3 times. Just vengeance could take out one or two hardpoints with an ISD before being destroyed even with a couple tie d's going at its mass-drivers first and the same logic made their space-station only beatable by lots of bombers and fighters. Cap-ships just died horribly.

Rust_Lord
11-13-2006, 10:04 PM
All in all I think the ZC isn't impossible to beat, it just makes the game no fun to play:/
So, like I've read from so many others, the damn thing goes back on the shelf...

My sentiments exactly. I found the GC game against them very challenging but not enjoyable. In order to limit the ZC technology and so I didnt have to run into lvl 4/5 stations everywhere I stayed at tech 1 until they had about 6 planets left. Trying to take on 15 sdqns+ of star vipers was like getting eaten alive by pirahnas. I just spammed suicide fleets of tartans to go in and cut down as many sqdns before my real fleet attacked. :(

Tears I tend to write with respect to skirmish a bit hence the bit about Rogue Sdqn and Thrawn. I havent been bothered to look at the speed of the Defenders in XML but they dont strike me as being overly quick and ive always felt the interdictor is pretty weak; its been all but useless in skirmish. Tougher B-Wings would give the rebs a bit of a heavier punch and make up for their lack of units. I mean really, in skirmish they are like 700 and I think inferior to Y-wings!

ISD2s would be a great idea. I put them in my own mod and they cost about 9000 but reflected the cost. It would just be a shame that it would take the upgraded ISD to resemble how the base model should be.

Naso
11-13-2006, 11:26 PM
Haven't had much time to play yet, but do the b-wings and defenders do well against other fighters? The latter really should at least. I'm becoming a bit of a one-trick pony here but I'd really be ok with it if they just made the ISD really good and let the other imp ships suck. It's the one ship that's just too iconic starwars to mess up like that. Well, that and maybe tone down the mass-drivers a bit.

It's also a little sad the game didn't have that counter-unit chart. :(

Darth_Extas
11-14-2006, 05:17 PM
It seems I can disagree a large amount with Rust-Lord. I have found that Tie-Interceptors can counter the Star-Vipers. I have also been able to counter the corruption easily, without that much credits (maybe about 6-10 thousand). In addition, I have noticed how effective the Artillary Starships are and have you ever tried using them? I have destroyed about 20 squadrons of fighters with 1 Broadside Cruiser/ Maurader (No Modifications are applied). By what I have faced B-Wings are more powerful then Y-Wing, Tie-Fighters are useless against them, in addition I generally have problems against them. The Way to counter the vengence is fairly simple to counter, if you look at the counter list the Mc30 most definitly is a counter for the Vengence in addition the empire can use either Broadsides + Fighters or simply and ISD, I have killed Vengences easily (even after I upped their Health). For the space stations, I can see some agreement there... Although the it is always best to use the usual counters to a space station, in addition have destroyed a space station without much cost of capital ships (I did not modify any space-stations), In my game I can see how to counter it, using similar stategies for instance focusing firepower! I have actually destroyed a vengence without loosing a hardpoint, once again I can elabrate on focusing firepower. Key elements are to use your advantage of fighters, such as using the spawned ones against the vengence (there is a reason why the spawned ones are disposable)! My only comment is that the ZC heroes are a bit overpowered (just Zann and Sirili can take a whole planet that is reasonably gaurded).

Wilfer88
11-14-2006, 06:28 PM
StarViper is the greatest fighter in the game and the Consortium starts with 2 and can build more in the begining of the game in online space battles. My clan never looses when playing the Consortium ,never . Killing tartan,corvetts and enemy bases is not that hard with StarViper. That has to change. We have bojkoted (swedish word, dont realy know the english one) playing Consortium becouse they are to unbalansed.

Rust_Lord
11-14-2006, 10:57 PM
Boycott = bojkoted, Wilfer.

You can *counter* the Star Viper with an Interceptor (ie keep it busy) but ive seen it with one squadron, 2 sqdn, 5+ sdqn that the Star Viper eventually *defeats* the interceptor and if they deploy their buzz droids in the right spot they win pretty convincingly.

When you say you counter the corruption are you talking GC or skirmish, militarily or actually removing their corruption/influence? Its all but imposible to remove their corruption entirely but this doesnt worry me so much. The production benefits are pretty good. It gets a bit annoying there's not a damn thing you can do about it though.

I like Y-wngs better than B-wings because they can use ion cannons. Bwings cant. They both fire torps and they are both crap against fighters and corvettes *although* Ywings have a chance at disabling them for a bit. Im more afraid of Y-wings than B-wings.

I have used broadsides against the ZC and they work well enough however the broadside actually has a much shorter range than the marauder. Attacking ships is okay however once attacked the ZC has always assembled its entire force and headed straight for me, so if I didnt have a comparable force they would slaughter me; and in the GC I played they used my old tactic of having a few HUGE fleets that I could not match at that point in the game without leaving every planet undefended. Against ZC stations with the broadside you have to get within their range to use them and you dont last very long. The marauder is okay. With the space stations the usual bomber attack gets shot up by plasma, lasers and mass drivers. You have to send a heap of squadrons escorted by fighters and hope they do enough damage to key hardpoints. When using acclamators you only get the 1 bomber sqdn so you really have to make them count which is not easy.

As for the vengeance they dont worry me too much, but I think they are imbalanced; nor do the aggressors worry me; I took out three with a lvl 1 space station and 2 bomber squadrons once.

Silri and Zann dont worry me; I know what you mean about playing as them though, they are pretty damn powerful but Urai is even worse....he has beaten both the Emperor, Vader and Fett one on one, hands down. He is ridiculous.

Darth_Extas
11-15-2006, 10:56 AM
I am a usual GC player, so are you talking about in skirmish or GC? I suspect Skirmish. Urai's secret is that he can block the lightsaber, A good idea then would be to decrease the blocking chances to even it out. Although we do all agree the ZC heroes are overpowered. Only thing is that I have beaten a ZC space station with just (one of the lower or higher level) a capital ship and maybe 2-4 fighter squadrons (they are mixed between fighters and bombers). Key thing is to take out the mass drivers first and then the hangar or do mass drivers, plasma cannon, hangar. As rebels you can counter the plasma cannon by simply using the "power to shields" ability. I seen the computer make it do no damage to them because of the ability. Well I am talking in GC because you cannot corrupt anything in skirmish (it is not an ability... I have not tried a land skirmish yet). In addition, before I started playing the expansion as the Imperials, I played the ZC and found the weaknesses and strengths of the whole faction. My GC Strategy is what I call "fronts" I make inner planets to only defend and use the outerplanets to expand (build in the inner planets if I need to)

Rust_Lord
11-15-2006, 07:38 PM
I only used the broadsides in GC. I will try hitting the mass drivers and plasmas straight off as I tend to go for the hangar first. I have preferred to stop their supply of blastboats as quickly as I can. The ZC is not a problem until they get tech 3 stations. Then they start to get tough to assault.

Going back to the point about fighters I had a look at the XMLs last night. Ill make a selected comparison....

CRAFT________SPEED____DAM___SHLD__HP
Interceptor_____5.5______3____________60
Star Viper______5.8______12_____50____75
Defender_______5________7______70___100
BWing_________4________5______30____60
Xwing_________4________5______20____60
TIE___________4.5_______3___________50
YWing_________3________5______30____60

The stats say it all *shakes head*.

ImpElite
11-15-2006, 11:57 PM
Wow.... good thing for me my new favorite faction is the Zann Consortium lol

YertyL
11-19-2006, 05:34 AM
Hmm IMO the speed and range (and perhaps something else..?) of the Executor should be buffed a bit, ATM she seems more like a huge ship that just sits there and waits to be torn apart by bombers than the huge menace it should be.
And it takes forever to get her to a position where she can use more than 25% of her guns.

TearsOfIsha
11-19-2006, 05:39 AM
I only used the broadsides in GC. I will try hitting the mass drivers and plasmas straight off as I tend to go for the hangar first. I have preferred to stop their supply of blastboats as quickly as I can. The ZC is not a problem until they get tech 3 stations. Then they start to get tough to assault.

Going back to the point about fighters I had a look at the XMLs last night. Ill make a selected comparison....

CRAFT________SPEED____DAM___SHLD__HP
Interceptor_____5.5______3____________60
Star Viper______5.8______12_____50____75
Defender_______5________7______70___100
BWing_________4________5______30____60
Xwing_________4________5______20____60
TIE___________4.5_______3___________50
YWing_________3________5______30____60

The stats say it all *shakes head*.

I can't believe what I'm reading here. What a load of sh*te. Since when did the B-Wing become the a clone of the Xwing? Or the Star Viper outclass the Tie Defender in nearly everything?

Have petro lost all understanding of balance? How on earth could this type of tat be made and *no-one* at petro say "ummm, guys, does this list look...right... to you?"

Gimme a break.

Naso
11-19-2006, 10:02 AM
I'm really really hoping that damage is what they mean by the fighter damage class, though it would be nice if the defender were just a bit faster too. It would be really cool if the rebels had to rely on fighters all the way up to the highest tech and then it shifted. I still wonder why they didn't put in gunboats. Those would be a good mid-tech bomber

TearsOfIsha
11-19-2006, 02:03 PM
It didn't shift. The rebels were heavily reliant on fighters for virtually all of the war.

Which means the rebel's fighters should be better than the empires, while their cruisers will obviously be less potent than imperial equivalents.

Oh hang on, they did have that balance in EaW. I wonder why they changed it.

Naso
11-19-2006, 02:10 PM
I didn't mean their strategy, but more of an equalization at the end. Most of my impressions come from the x-wing series, but I thought that if they'd gotten more tie avengers and defenders out they would have at least neutralized the rebel advantage in that area. Since the tie defender made it in to begin with, the whole Zaarin deal is relatively canon, right?

darthcarth
11-19-2006, 02:12 PM
Like i have said before the perto devs didnt not focus to mcuh on the other two sides the wanted zann to be uber so they did that not thinking about any of the fans of the other sides.

TearsOfIsha
11-19-2006, 02:44 PM
I didn't mean their strategy, but more of an equalization at the end. Most of my impressions come from the x-wing series, but I thought that if they'd gotten more tie avengers and defenders out they would have at least neutralized the rebel advantage in that area. Since the tie defender made it in to begin with, the whole Zaarin deal is relatively canon, right?

Yeah, but it's also Canon that they only used a few squadrons of Defenders and used Interceptors and TIE/Ins mostly. Are you suggesting the Empire have a unit limit on defenders? 6 squads or something? That sounds a bit mad.

But there is the fact that the imperials never really considered fighters to be a particualrly important part of the war machine until Thrawn took the reins.

Like i have said before the perto devs didnt not focus to mcuh on the other two sides the wanted zann to be uber so they did that not thinking about any of the fans of the other sides.

That's pretty much the impression I got. They balantly didn't bother to balance the consortium side.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post mods, I thought the forum would have just appended them together.... :(


Use the edit button. -LIAYD

Naso
11-19-2006, 02:54 PM
No no no, my impression is that at the higher tech levels, imps having good fighters would fit, since if they *could* have gotten more to the frontlines, they would have started to turn the tables on the rebels, but all the defenders/avengers were taking care of Zaarin during Endor and all that.

wedge2211
11-19-2006, 05:07 PM
TIE Advanced fighters were only produced in a very limited supply; TIE Defenders were invented for the "TIE Fighter" game since players were used to flying shielded Rebel starfighters. I think it's safe to say that any Imperial fighters not seen in the movies were pretty darned uncommon in the Imperial Navy.

A single starfighter that can blow away anything in space isn't really the Empire's style, either. Their philosophy relied on two main elements: First, big is good; and second, if you must build small things, build a crapload of them. TIE/D's aren't really conducive to either philosophy--but Imperial Star Destroyers and TIE/F's sure are.

The Rebels should be heavily reliant on fighters at all tech levels, since their philosophy is to get high-quality small ships that can slip through the Empire's large-scale defenses. They had more carriers than cruisers or destroyers for exactly that reason. EaW never fully captured the Rebels' focus on starfighters, thanks to the incredible effectiveness of the Tartan. I'd be very much in favor of boosting the Rebel fighters' abilities against capital ships and reducing the effectiveness of the Tartan--since the Tartan plugs the hole in Imperial defenses that we all know was left gaping wide open!

TearsOfIsha
11-19-2006, 05:10 PM
No no no, my impression is that at the higher tech levels, imps having good fighters would fit, since if they *could* have gotten more to the frontlines, they would have started to turn the tables on the rebels, but all the defenders/avengers were taking care of Zaarin during Endor and all that.

Nah, you're misunderstanding it. Zaarin wasn't the reason there were only a few Defenders and whatnot, The Empire never really believed fighters were the way forward. There were too many influential voices in the Imperial Navy that were against them, so they never got built - they were generally seen as an experiment. As I said, the Defender only got produced in *very* limited amounts - and after Endor, definitely after the fall of Coruscant, I think production stopped altogether. The only new-style fighters that were being produced were Scimitars that Thrawn used at that point. The Defender went the way of the Tie x1.

Naso
11-19-2006, 07:35 PM
But there were tons of factories that were destroyed by Zaarin, and so they had to match his tie-d's and kept even most of the avengers off the front lines. Just avengers would have evened it a lot. If they hadn't been learning, they wouldn't have even developed those, let alone gunboats.

lukeiamyourdad
11-19-2006, 08:17 PM
But there were tons of factories that were destroyed by Zaarin, and so they had to match his tie-d's and kept even most of the avengers off the front lines. Just avengers would have evened it a lot. If they hadn't been learning, they wouldn't have even developed those, let alone gunboats.

They tried to match his Tie Defenders by having the Missile Boat.

Gunboats were mainly used for tactics requiring a small hyperspace capable starfighter. It has nothing to do with having a ship equally strong or better then the Rebels. In fact, the Gunboat was barely more then a Y-Wing on steroids.

Avengers were simply based off the Tie x1 idea but remained marginal in its use.

All in all, most of those crafts were too expensive for serious mass production and mass deployment, which is against Imperial philosophy.

TearsOfIsha
11-19-2006, 08:57 PM
But there were tons of factories that were destroyed by Zaarin, and so they had to match his tie-d's and kept even most of the avengers off the front lines. Just avengers would have evened it a lot. If they hadn't been learning, they wouldn't have even developed those, let alone gunboats.

I've no idea what you're on about here. The imperials were exploring possibilities in new fighter designs, but the bottom line was that none of their stuff really got much love from High Command. The only units that did were things like the TIE Interceptor.

Gunboats were'nt a product of learning either. Hell, the first skiprays were in use before the Battle of Yavin.

Rust_Lord
11-19-2006, 10:21 PM
There was suppossed to be alot of competing voices, from military and industry and the starfighter advocates never got their way. Sure they were allowed to do research that was very promising but sometimes the best choice is not made and this was the Empires problem. With the losses the Imps took at the hands of shielded rebel fighters a simple cost/benfit analysis would show it was worth making the more expensive craft that could kill more craft before it was destroyed itself was surely a better way to go. I read the Empire did not like its starfighters to have hyperdrives because they wanted to reinforce the pilots dependence upon its carrier ship and higher authority. They were obsessed with stupid crap like that. If you read about the Skipray, they were very effective and Commanders loved them. There was calls to replace all starfighters with skiprays (albeit less of them) due to their speed, firepower and survivability but the Navy would never go for the starfighter/capital hybrid even if it was advantageous. The Empire was also corrupt and decisions were made that at times benefitted people not the cause and this screwed them. Gunboats were widespread but in limited numbers and used in specific missions. Another part of the Empires problem was that they were very reluctant to create ships to react to the apparent strengths of the rebels as this proved they were worried by them. The Lancer, the Interceptor and the ISD2 are the only ships they produced to specifically counter rebel designs.

Also, now that we have seen what Petro intends to do with the patch I want to say that I am very underwhelmed. The TIE defenders speed actually reduced!? The Crusader IMPROVED!? Skiprays improved and their price reduced!? ZC space stations improved (plasma cooldown reduced by 20 secs)!? We better start a thread for 1.07 suggestions now!

I am curious what people are changing in their own mods to make things balanced? I have increased mass driver inaccuracy for fighters and bombers from 45/40% to 75/70 respectively (petro did the same). I also reduced damage from 10 to 5 after all the Vengeance fires a 8 shot burst from each mass driver!

I increased the Interceptors damage from 3 to 5.

I reduced the StarVipers shields from 50 to 25 (same as petro) and kept the hull at 75, decreased dam to 5 and speed to 5.5 (same as Interceptor).

The defenders burst rate from 2 to 4.

This made the sides alot more balanced. ZC is not as insanely tough but when you play as them you still own both other factions fairly easily. Its a little more challenging now.

I made some other changes that werent necessary but balance is still fine: I made the Bwing alot tougher in shielding (40) and hull (180) and increased its price, made defenders alot faster (max speed 7.5) and reduced shield penalty for power to weapons. I kept its total health roughly the same but increased its shields and refresh rate while lowering its hull and increasing its cost to 1000. The skiprays I increased their shields and health , reduced their squad size to 2 and increased their cost slightly.

TearsOfIsha
11-20-2006, 05:13 AM
Yeah, I've posted my concerns in the petro forums. There isn't really any part of the ZC that needed improving....

Plus, where are the XMLs for FOC? I can only find the original ones for EaW...

Darth_Extas
11-20-2006, 06:24 PM
They are in the Config.meg as usual...
I made that mistake once, try moving your .Meg Extractor and/or change the location of what the extrator is extracting.

YertyL
11-27-2006, 05:16 PM
OK, please make the ZC unable to sabotage research centers. It just isn't right that you have to wait 5 minutes until your researching facility is finished to then have it blown up for a mere 4000 credits.
Oh, and while we're at it, I suggest slightly lowering the build time of the research center. The Empire should typically have a technological advantage over the rebels and ATM it's just the other way around, especially if your research center should ever get destroyed.

Rust_Lord
11-28-2006, 06:36 PM
The research centre is very important and I can understand why they would want to make it take a while to build, however if you play GC on any speed less than standard it can become painfully slow to construct. The build speed doesnt really encourage you to build multiple research centres that would be very handy, especially since the arrival of defilers. YertL are you the one getting sabotaged or are you doing the sabotaging? I ask because all the times I played GC the ZC never attacked my single research centre??? You are right though, it is rather cheap and a very painful attack, especially if you were 95% complete researching the next tech level!

YertyL
11-29-2006, 10:45 AM
I did the sabotage (or rather, saw the possibility to do it, since I attacked the planet anyways and instead blew up a factory).
However I guess that a human opponent could do the same to you in MP, which is rather imba.

Btw., I do consider that R2/C3PO can be assasinated and black marcets can be de-corrupted, denying Rebel and ZC players the possibility of teching up, however both things are relatively easy to rebuild (wait a few minutes or simply recorrupt the planet) and thus not too harmful for the enemy player (especially in the case of the ZC, since it only unlocks special abilities;and in the case of R2 it even takes the enemy hero out of the game for a while as well).
Sabotaging a research facility however harms the imp player too much for how easy it is; there isn't even a possibility to defend oneself against this tactic because a ZC player can simply corrupt a planet and immediately sabotage before the imp player has time to de-corrupt it.

empire111
11-29-2006, 11:43 AM
buildable rebel transport, random events, campaigns for rebel and empire, custom buildable GC maps.