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YertyL
11-03-2006, 05:04 PM
Having played the expansion for a while now and after having read some comments in other threads, I wanted to hear your opinions on the Zann Consortium space units.
I have observed the following possible imbalances:

Generally, the ZC seems to get more credits than the other 2 factions: it can relatively fast build the palace which equals roughly 4 mines in planetary income and can earn quite a lot of credits through planetary corruption.
To compensate this, their ground units and towers are generally far more expensive than their Rebel/Imperial equivalent.
In space however, the ZC seems to get the better units for the same price. Both space stations and units are roughly as expensive as their Rebel/Imperial counterparts, however all of them seem to own their counterparts:

-ZC fighters are the same price as X- or A-Wings, however their buzz droid special ability makes them superior to both of them. At the beginning of the campaign, I usually simply spammed 20+ squadrons of these fighters, with great effect. The AI seems to be pretty fond of that tactic as well....

- Though crusader class corvettes are slightly more expensive than the Corellian vette or the Tartan, their anti-missile spacial again makes them far more than a simple anti-fighter craft and far better than the other corvette class ships

-the interceptor IV with its rocket launchers is a bit like the acclamator - only faster, without an engine harpoint, more durable and equipped with the ability to concentrate fire - without losing shields

-Vengeance frigates own Assault frigates and Victories, can self-destruct, move through asteroids undamaged and cloak with a very small recharge time - 'nough said.
Additionally, mass drivers appear to be an effective anti-fighter weapon.

-Keldabe class battleships unlike their counterparts can be built anywhere, have the best special ability by far (one of these was able to drain about half the Home One's shields in one row) and are not only equipped with the "usual" 4 turbolasers and 2 ion cannons, but also 2 mass drivers and an addtion engine hardpoint

The only 2 units I find pretty balanced are the skipray blastboat, that despite being an extremly damaging bomber costs enough to justify that effectiveness, and the aggressor class destroyer that is a relatively specialised unit and also costs quite a bit.


I'll start with a few suggestions to perhaps help improve the blancing of the ZC space units; these are more random ideas than really thought-through, but I think at least some of them would would help when being implemented...

-Generally increase the price of ZC space units a bit, so that their cost/use effectiveness is reduced a little
-make Keldable battleships and possibly aggressor-class destroyers buildable only on planets that can build cap ships - why should the ZC get such a huge advantage over the other 2 factions?
-make the recharge time for the cloaking ability of Vengeance class frigates longer - it should be a strategical option, instead of being almost permanetly available
-somehow weaken both the special ability and weaponry of the Keldable battleship - their firepower should not by far surpass that of a SD or MC
(I generally find it a bit strange that one strength of a pirate faction lies in their badass huge cap ships that eclipse Imperial SDs, but nvm that...)
-make the interceptor's engines a targetable hardpoint or decrease its durabilty a bit, making it more of a hit n' run ship
-decrease the firepower of the crusader class vette a bit; this way it could get more of a specialised anti-missile ship (while the ZC already has effective protection of their cap ships against bombers/fighters with the buzz droids); also (though I haven't really tested this enought to be sure), the ATM seem to be better vs fighters than the CC or Tartan
-generally, make mass drivers less effective vs fighters!!!

That's it from my side for now - discuss! :-)

Darth Khasei
11-03-2006, 07:08 PM
Well I am more than sure that lots of Imps and scums will agree with your thoughts. Not, that they are not without some merit,as I think a "couple" could be further discussed.

The balance they have struck in terms of the GC and land skirmsh is fine, ppl just need to learn how to fight them. However, in space you may have some points. There is this interesting notion that everyone has seems to be saying that the ZC should be last in terms of power, I don't agree per se as crime lords acess to the black market can tip things in their favor, just like IRL.

But, this is a minority view and I'm sure most ppl would agree with you hands down. ;)

YertyL
11-04-2006, 10:23 AM
Well I am more than sure that lots of Imps and scums will agree with your thoughts. Not, that they are not without some merit,as I think a "couple" could be further discussed.

The balance they have struck in terms of the GC and land skirmsh is fine, ppl just need to learn how to fight them. However, in space you may have some points. There is this interesting notion that everyone has seems to be saying that the ZC should be last in terms of power, I don't agree per se as crime lords acess to the black market can tip things in their favor, just like IRL.

But, this is a minority view and I'm sure most ppl would agree with you hands down. ;)
Well, that's a bit of a very general statement ... could you be a little more specific on how exactly some of the points I mentioned are incorrect? (I'm really not trying to be rude, but if you just post "no" that's not very informative).
Also, IMO the ZC should be about as strong as the other 2 factions - but their strength could maybe lie in something different than hypering in with huge capital ships or tanks and waltzing the enemy over - we have the empire for that ...

Darth Khasei
11-04-2006, 03:52 PM
Hmm, I don't see where I wrote that anything was incorrect?

I think the validity of the ZC space units in skirmish having to purchase the black market abilities instead of starting off with them(ie. buzz droids) is clear.

However, the other issues concerning play balance I just don't "agree" with, not that they are incorrect per se, see the difference?

YertyL
11-05-2006, 01:01 PM
Well, I have 2 new examples of how blanced the ZC is....
In the first battle, I attacked about 10 crusader class corvettes and 2 or 3 Interceptor IV frigates with a mon cal, an assault frigate, an neb b and a MC30.
The result: 1 Mon Cal destroyed, despite constant use of its special ability to strengthen the shields, by the crusader vettes that could destroy the Mon Cal faster than I could destroy them.
In the second battle, I was attacked with a fleet of 2 mon cals, 4 A-Wings, 6 B-Wings (which I kept back though) 2 neb b's, 2 assault frigates, 2 MC30s and a level 1 space station by 3 vengeance frigates, 2 Interceptor IVs, 2 crusader vettes, IG88 and about 10 squadrons of fighters.
I laughed when I saw what I was attacked by.
The result: I lost the 4 A-Wing squads immediately, 1 Mon Cal, 1 neb b, 1 MC30 and one assault frigate, while the enmey lost most of his fighters, 2 vengeance frigates,2 interceptor frigates and his crusader vettes.
I also had an ion canon on the attacked planet....

TearsOfIsha
11-11-2006, 04:59 AM
However, the other issues concerning play balance I just don't "agree" with, not that they are incorrect per se, see the difference?

So.... you don't agree that being able to build superior capital ships anywhere is unbalanced? You don't agree that the Vengence is is one of the toughest ships in space *and* it seems to be exempt from asteriods, as well as a cloaking device, is a little bit overboard?

ummmm....... :confused:

ImpElite
11-11-2006, 10:55 AM
That's scary.

TearsOfIsha
11-11-2006, 01:10 PM
That's scary.

Yup. I'm getting the impression that Darth Khasei is a full time ZC player. It's the only reason why he would think a side that is all advantages and has virtually no disadvantages (beyond having to pay a bit more - which is directly compensated for by the insane ZC economy model) is actually 'balanced'.

Had petroglyph bothered to test the exp before it got released, the total imbalance would have been *possible* to deal with - it would mean the game would be stupidly hard and without fun factor, true, but possible - but with all the bugs it's just a mess. I don't think I can be bothered to wait for a patch. Honestly, the level of shoddiness in here reminds me of the original SiN.

Naso
11-11-2006, 03:21 PM
I just got the thing last night and in playing the campaign on medium even I'm seeing ridiculous balance issues, if it's anything like this in multiplayer/gc. Granted I'm one of those who was really sad at how weak the ISD was in the original, but now it's just ridiculous. A level 2 or 3 space station of mine *easily* repelled an imperial fleet with 2 vsd's, 3 or 4 acclamators, a some missile cruisers, tartans, and some of the more expensive fighters. There wasn't anything garrisoned there. At at level 4 or 5 station, I was attacked by a larger fleet with an impstar, and I did have some forces garrisoned there and I lost a lot of my corvette-class ships when I overextended, but that was about it and judging from the other battles, if I would have let them close with my station a little more I might have lost very very little.

I doubt they'd ever do it, and it's not entirely FoC specific, but why don't they maybe give the ISD two shield hardpoints, one for each tower. That'd really help a lot.