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{TheChosenOne}
11-13-2006, 07:58 AM
Just throwing out some more suggestions though I'm not sure this has been discussed before.

Model scaling. Can it be implemented into OJP? I remember in a beta session someone, I'm terrible with names :ears1: , said they could do it for you (razor) if you wanted. It would help to make a wookiee a wookiee and a Yoda a Yoda. :P

My second thing goes out as a question/suggestion. Would OJP want a type of official/unofficial mappers? Like the CMP equivalent of MB2? I talked to JR Hock with this. I'd be more than willing to whip up something.....though my skills are very limited with GTKRadiant as I am currently playing with Source SDK mapping.

UDM
11-13-2006, 08:41 AM
Hmmmm if, and only IF, we're not going to do a singleplayer campaign, I suggest having a bunch of co-op maps as a replacement. I mean playing co-op on the default maps is fun, but it gets old eventually, not to mention how they crash once every 30 mins. We could create official co-op maps for use with OJP, with custom built-in objectives and a backstory that fits into the SW universe

Eg. The Jedi Academy has sensed a disturbance in the Valley of the Jedi. Apparently, a cultist master has survived the assault of the Academy on Korriban, and retreated with a bunch of imperials to the VotJ. You are to head down there and eliminate the Sith

Or

Eg. Imperial forces have invaded the Jedi Academy! You, and other students, have to defend the Academy for as long as possible, until Luke returns with reinforcements from the alliance

Or

Eg. A group of important merchants have been held hostage by a gang on Nar Shardaa. You are to head down there with other students to rescue the merchants

So essentially, you're just like...part of the team you know, performing a wide variety of missions (think of Republic Commando and Sven Co-op). And they're not going to be easy to accomplish, if you don't rely on help from your friends. In other words, you're going to die a lot if you don't with one another. I think this will be easier on the mappers, and on the game itself as well, as there is hardly a need for cutscenes and scripted effects.

Which brings to mind: what about a cvar that allows an increase in enemy strength for every player that joins? For example, we can set the percentage increment for enemies to hit harder and have more DP, for every player that joins. So the percentage is set at 30%, then every player who joins will increase the enemy toughness by 30%. If there are 5 players in there, enemies become 100% + 150% = 250% tougher than usual

Also, it'd be nice if we could set whether we want to force weapon stay and such in the in-game create server options. I'm no coder, so I don't know how difficult this would be, but there's no harm in suggestions :)

Anyway, with regards to the co-op suggestions, Razor if you're agreeable to it, I could work with people like Chosen on the map. Just say the word!

razorace
11-13-2006, 08:52 AM
I've always been iffy about modelscaling. It just screws up so many aspects of the gameplay. It's technically not that hard to impliment, it's just hard to make it work right with all little details in the gameplay, like saberlocks, grapples, ledgegrabs, etc.

Sure, an offical OJP map package would rock. We'd just need to have someone in charge of administrating the package and such. I just don't have the time to do it myself.

UDM
11-13-2006, 09:26 AM
No problem, we'll gather all the mappers who are interested in working on this (including myself), and get together on msn

{TheChosenOne}
11-13-2006, 09:44 AM
I'll be more than willing to throw in a helping hand for the OJP map pack but like I said, my knowledge is limited in mapping. I don't know many commands for ingame things, how to use caulk, shaders, etc.

I guess I can pick up a bunch of tutorials. >_<

razorace
11-13-2006, 10:21 AM
Remember that there's already a lot of maps out there. You probably don't even need to make new ones. However, if that's what you guys want to do, I think it would be awesome if OJP had some dedicated CoOp maps. :)

UDM
11-13-2006, 10:23 AM
If Q3 is anywhere similar to Doom 3 (I'm assuming it is), shaders are applied to specific textures eg. a texture glows because it is linked to a specific shader. So you don't need to know how to create shaders in order to apply them to textures. Just link to them in the text file (uh shader text file).

Caulk itself is a very small, low-res texture. You apply it to surfaces that can't be seen, so that the game does not render it in-game and cause unnecessary lag

Uh talk to me on MSN if you want to know more. PM me your email

UDM
11-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Remember that there's already a lot of maps out there. You probably don't even need to make new ones. However, if that's what you guys want to do, I think it would be awesome if OJP had some dedicated CoOp maps. :)
That's what I'm talking about. We've got a million FFA maps on jk2files, and few singleplayer maps. Not to mention that hardly any work on OJP without causing it to crash

In fact, what I've got in mind are co-op ladder maps and objective maps that are compatible with OJP. They shouldn't be hard to do, and they can be wacky and fun at the same time, especially for the ladder maps

Btw razor what do you think of the idea of having a cvar that increases the power of NPCs for every player joined? I got the idea from Serious Sam. Also, it would be good to have similar cvars, like friendly fire damage eg. if set at 10%, there's friendly fire, but not too much

Maxstate
11-13-2006, 11:30 AM
This is like the third time I've had to mention something what I did before:

I've gotten us permission to use both LivingDeadJedi's and Monsoontide's maps if we want too, as long as we credit them ofcourse.

Maybe I should just stop mass-mailing people for permission..

razorace
11-13-2006, 12:37 PM
I often don't know the status of the things that we've gotten permission for or not. Maybe we should have another document that just covers the resources that we could use if we wanted.

Btw razor what do you think of the idea of having a cvar that increases the power of NPCs for every player joined? I got the idea from Serious Sam. Also, it would be good to have similar cvars, like friendly fire damage eg. if set at 10%, there's friendly fire, but not too much
It's possible, but I can see it being difficult to do due to the very dynamic nature of the NPC files.

UDM
11-13-2006, 01:20 PM
Hmm what about reducing the player damage done to NPCs then?

razorace
11-13-2006, 01:49 PM
That might seem weird. I mean, you'd probably be able to see the difference pretty quickly, especially in Enhanced.

Sushi_CW
11-13-2006, 01:50 PM
FFA maps could potentially be retooled into co-op maps--some of SJC's Episode 3 maps come to mind. Just add the right spawnpoints, objectives, and NPCs.

There are definitely plenty of maps out there, and a lot of them could become co-op/single player maps pretty easily.

UDM
11-13-2006, 02:36 PM
Sushi: that's a good point, but then...hmm I dunno, I think it'd be good to have pieces of work that we can call our own too. Although I think it's not a bad idea to have more through the borrowing of others' materials

Sushi_CW
11-13-2006, 04:18 PM
Why reinvent the wheel? :) If there is a map that fits what you're looking for, might as well use it, and there are about a million maps to choose from. Some of them are extremely big: perfect for long missions. (But bad for framerate :()

As I sort of hinted, I would love to see co-op maps loosely based on famous battles (think Battlefront). It would be great to have missions based on storming the Invisible Hand, or taking on Grievous on Utupau, or fighting through Stormtroopers on Bespin to try to save Han. Sort of like MovieBattles, but co-op, and with lots of NPCs to slaughter. :)

That said, our first concern should be getting the base maps in.

I don't like the idea of making NPCs stronger or player attacks weaker to offset the fact that coop is pretty easy. It seems to me that both would mess up game dynamics. If we do tweak anything based on the number of players, it should probably have something to do with skill points.

JRHockney*
11-13-2006, 06:44 PM
Wow, did I ever miss a big discussion here! LOL. Yeah I'm all for it as well. I think its a good idea to do a little of both as far as finding maps and making them. Finding maps will definitely save us some time, but then again, making our own maps would give players more incentive to try our mod. I'd love to learn to map, but I need a really good tutorial on it because the last time I turned on GKRadiant, I was completely lost on how to use it. :|

razorace
11-13-2006, 08:39 PM
I guess the big question is what sort of goals are we trying to accomplish with a OJP map pack?

UDM
11-13-2006, 09:05 PM
If you ask me, co-op is a major part of OJP that has yet to have its potential fully tapped. It's an unexplored territory in the JKA community, or gaming community for the most part. I think we should try out for gameplay that takes the best of teamplay with co-op eg. Republic Commando. Something that requires teamwork, yet it does not promote competitiveness

An OJP map pack allows us to tap into this potential. Since the game is called Jedi Academy, I see no reason why the game shouldn't allow us to perform Jedi Academy missions online. I've always envisioned being able to work with other Academy students, instead of always stealing the limelight and playing hero. Sort of like Republic Commando. In fact, a map pack allows us many opportunities to create original gameplay. We don't have to follow the mainstream. Since our focus is on both gunners and Jedi, we could even create missions that only make use of guns, thus showcasing the mod's awesomeness in that aspect too. At the end of the day, I feel a map pack would allow us to further allow OJP's features to shine :)

{TheChosenOne}
11-14-2006, 03:40 AM
Wow, did I ever miss a big discussion here! LOL. Yeah I'm all for it as well. I think its a good idea to do a little of both as far as finding maps and making them. Finding maps will definitely save us some time, but then again, making our own maps would give players more incentive to try our mod. I'd love to learn to map, but I need a really good tutorial on it because the last time I turned on GKRadiant, I was completely lost on how to use it. :|
http://jkamappingsourc.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=105

JA Mapping Source is a great place to learn. My clanmate Yzmo helped me out quite a bit.



Good to see my idea is liked btw. :D

I'd have to go over those tutorials to help you guys again as my skills are indeed limited.

Also when the more people join why not just make DP drains from the player less on the enemy saber wielders? You could also up the dp damage by gunners.

Also if we're going with FFA maps turned into Co-op maps then we'd have to convert it to a siege like map especially if we hope to achieve movie realistic type co-ops. I.e. 1 Obi-Wan and Anakin as a choice in the siege menu with an infinite number of clone troopers you could be on the invisible hand.

It could be like a Co-op moviebattle modes with "Open" and "Authentic" Co-op.

razorace
11-14-2006, 03:56 AM
I'd say that you're going to have to be careful about the scope of what you're planning. I'm going to be semi-retired in a month so there's a very uncertain future about what will be added to OJP after that.

As such, I'd try for just straight CoOp missions without any special gameplay requirements.

UDM
11-14-2006, 04:52 AM
Also if we're going with FFA maps turned into Co-op maps then we'd have to convert it to a siege like map especially if we hope to achieve movie realistic type co-ops. I.e. 1 Obi-Wan and Anakin as a choice in the siege menu with an infinite number of clone troopers you could be on the invisible hand.

It could be like a Co-op moviebattle modes with "Open" and "Authentic" Co-op.

That'd be hard to achieve. You'll need the right number of players, and many other factors come into play too

{TheChosenOne}
11-14-2006, 06:01 AM
That'd be hard to achieve. You'll need the right number of players, and many other factors come into play too

It'd be hard to achieve but I think the overall result would be much appreciated and awesome. You wouldn't need a right number of players as with MB2 you can still play FA with any number of players.

We could hook it up so that every time the round ends the next person in line for say Anakin would get him, or if you want to stretch it everytime the Anakin dies he gets replaced by the next in line.

Maxstate
11-14-2006, 06:04 AM
I'm against classes and chosen people.

I think we should be able to replay these scenes and stuff with our own customized warriors. We already got MBII for movielike recreation.

UDM
11-14-2006, 06:17 AM
Yup I agree. It's good to have our own settings and all that, but MB2 already does the job in terms of movie replication

{TheChosenOne}
11-14-2006, 07:03 AM
Aw you sure? Like I said we could do a "Open" or an "Authentic" Co-op.

Too bad. :(

UDM
11-14-2006, 02:22 PM
Sorry to disappoint, but our scope would be very limited if we based it on the movies :P

I think we should have all sorts of co-op missions though. So it wouldn't be a bad idea if we had 1 or 2 maps based on the movies. For example, maybe you could play as the republic defending the palace in Episode 1 from imperial lackeys. But then, again I think our scope should be widened. We could have missions that range from Jedi Academy settings (playing as students) to pure mindless fighting fun that of course somewhat still make sense in the SW universe eg. stranded on the deserts of tatooine with hordes of invading strange animals, and shooting anything that moves

{TheChosenOne}
11-15-2006, 07:50 AM
Sorry to disappoint, but our scope would be very limited if we based it on the movies :P
Oh I wasn't saying we only have to do things that are based on movies. I was just saying the ones we DO base on the movies could have as much.

We could also do some based on EU and not random ones from Jedi Academy to lengthen the choices.

I think we should have all sorts of co-op missions though. So it wouldn't be a bad idea if we had 1 or 2 maps based on the movies. For example, maybe you could play as the republic defending the palace in Episode 1 from imperial lackeys. But then, again I think our scope should be widened. We could have missions that range from Jedi Academy settings (playing as students) to pure mindless fighting fun that of course somewhat still make sense in the SW universe eg. stranded on the deserts of tatooine with hordes of invading strange animals, and shooting anything that moves
I wouldn't mind that.

UDM
11-15-2006, 11:46 AM
But anyway, I think we shouldn't limit our creativity to movies' settings. If it's to be based on the movies, I suggest we stray from the main story, perhaps adopt the timeline between Ep3 and Ep4