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RaV™
01-01-2007, 12:27 AM
This basically can fall under for anyone whom doesn't get their fic noticed much as I am not trying to complain or gripe (maybe I am) I sorta feel that my fanfic has gone unnoticed by multiple people and I don't think it's because it isn't a good fanfic..Any ideas?

Diego Varen
01-01-2007, 08:50 AM
Well, put a link of your Fic in your Sig and people might click on it and read it.

Kas'!m
01-01-2007, 12:08 PM
I don't kno. No one reads my stuff either. At least no one except CSI Nihilus.

Arátoeldar
01-01-2007, 12:19 PM
I don't kno. No one reads my stuff either. At least no one except CSI Nihilus.

If you cannot post using proper grammar and spelling. Then I refuse to even think about whether not I should read your fan fiction.

The Doctor
01-01-2007, 12:26 PM
The fact of the matter is, not too many people care for fan fics. The fics that we see with 1500+ views are ones written by the, shall we say, more socially accepted authors. I've noticed that a few people post in each other's threads, but nowhere else. There seem to be multiple FanFic 'cliques', and some people just aren't accepted into any of them. And there's really nothing one can do about it. Just keep writing, and hope for the best.

But don't let that stop you. Don't be like me, and stop posting your stuff simply because you don't get as many views or comments as you'd like. It's too late for me, but you can stop yourself from falling into that trap. Write for you, not for 'fans'.

If you cannot post using proper grammar and spelling. Then I refuse to even think about whether not I should read your fan fiction.
Now, if that sentence isn't ironic, I don't know what is. :xp:

CSI
01-01-2007, 12:27 PM
I don't kno. No one reads my stuff either. At least no one except CSI Nihilus.

Thank you for mentioning me.

Frankly, I don't really care how many people read my fic, I just do my best. But like Arátoeldar mentioned, Grammar is also an important issue, which, I agree on.

Diego Varen
01-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Well, I know how some of you might feel. When I first started writing Fics, the only people who ever read my Fics were JediMaster12 and mach, since he reviews Fics after all. It doesn't matter who reads your Fics, just write them and have fun. And like the Doc says, not many people visit the CEC, but more visit nowadays then when I first started.

RaV™
01-01-2007, 12:33 PM
The fact of the matter is, not too many people care for fan fics. The fics that we see with 1500+ views are ones written by the, shall we say, more socially accepted authors. I've noticed that a few people post in each other's threads, but nowhere else. There seem to be multiple FanFic 'cliques', and some people just aren't excepted into any of them. And there's really nothing anyone can do about it.
You hit the nail on the head. That's how I feel about a lot of things here. Also plenty of people have good stories going, but they don't get much credit because the more popular posters are posting something that may not even be that good.


Well, put a link of your Fic in your Sig and people might click on it and read it.
I did for a while until it got taken out for 'exceeding space and blah blah.'

Combined double post. I think it was the picture you had, not the link, that caused the space problem. :)

The Doctor
01-01-2007, 12:43 PM
Putting a link in your sig doesn't help. If anything, it just bugs people more than attracts attention to your fic. I was told that it made me look big headed when I put links to my KotOR Short Fics in my sig.

RaV™
01-01-2007, 12:47 PM
No respect no respect at all..It's weird exactly how people get so many views when it may not be too good?

The Doctor
01-01-2007, 01:02 PM
Well, at least the majority of the upper social class don't let it go to their head, and all of the people in the CEC are of the non-kerk variety. Some of them from Ahto, however, I could live without...

RaV™
01-01-2007, 01:26 PM
I hate to say such, but if some people have more talent than I then i'm going to take a plane trip outta the country.

Emalin
01-01-2007, 02:30 PM
If I may post my thoughts...it helps everyone if we fanfic writers are actively involved in reading each other's works, posting feedback, etc. The great thing is, a lot of the writers here do that! :D

Unfortunately, I haven't read any other stories yet. I intend to read them soon, including yours, RaV™. :)

Anakin Skywalker
01-01-2007, 02:34 PM
I don't kno. No one reads my stuff either. At least no one except CSI Nihilus.

I read your stuff.... I just don't comment on it....... don't feel bad about that..... I've just been very busy as of late

RaV™
01-01-2007, 02:42 PM
If I may post my thoughts...it helps everyone if we fanfic writers are actively involved in reading each other's works, posting feedback, etc. The great thing is, a lot of the writers here do that! :D

Unfortunately, I haven't read any other stories yet. I intend to read them soon, including yours, RaV™. :)
Your missing out :)

Jae Onasi
01-01-2007, 03:21 PM
OK, let's not start with bashing other forumites or I'll close the thread really quickly. I understand your frustration, RaV and Doctor, but I don't want it getting turned into something horribly negative.

Like I said in the feedback thread, no one woke up one day and said to themselves "I hate RaV/The Doctor, so I'm not going to comment in his fics". Give people a little credit for not being that petty. The assumption that people are not commenting because they're being 'cliquey' is not correct. There are a number of reasons people don't comment that are entirely unrelated to being exclusionary.

My chief problem right now is lack of time--I had a nightmare situation crop up in my history group in August and it's pretty much consumed me since then. I had a ton of things to research and write about on it--I wrote a 30 page paper on it this fall (wrote those 30 pages over a 10 day timespan, too. Ugh). Then I had to go out of town to give a report to the Board on it a few weeks later, and following that I had to deal with all the questions/fallout for the next few months--I've not had time to do much else until my term in office ended a couple weeks back. Then we started into the Christmas season, which is a big deal in my family with lots of decorating, cooking, spending time with family/friends, etc. Then a couple days ago my dad had a stroke (mild, thank God), so my time has been shot. JediMaster12 has a hard semester at college this term, JediAthos has a newborn, machievelli has had a lot of computer problems lately, people have returned to school/college and in December lots of people spend time with family/friends for the holidays (as it should be). All of these are legitimate reasons for people not to have time to post comments.

Please don't assume malice when there may be perfectly good reasons for lack of comments. It is far more likely to be the demands of Real Life than it is to be something more negative.

One thing I have noticed is the unwritten social convention that seems to have become a part of this community--if you comment in someone else's fic, they usually return the favor and comment in yours. It is not _required_ and I never want to see it become that way. However, we share works here, and if you want to receive comments, I would recommend to both of you to also give out comments and share your views on others' fics. This does 2 things--one, it makes people realize you want to be part of the community and be givers, not just takers, and two, it gives you a lot more name recognition with other writers.

I don't get near the readership at kfm as I do here, and that's I believe for several reasons. First, much as I've learned in the last year, I have a lot to learn about the craft, and my work is not going to hold a candle against some of the other writers there (a number of whom are professionals in writing/editing), and that's OK. Not everyone's a best-selling writer; we all have skills and expertise in different areas. The best writers there get a lot of comments and rightly so--they're writing some amazing stuff, just like some writers here are putting out fantastic pieces. RaV, I have multiple college degrees, and I have some raw talent, but I still have so much to learn about creative writing it's not funny. It is not intuitive at all, and there're a lot of things I have to do to make my story-telling better. There are plenty of people out there in the world with more innate talent, or who've had their talent developed more by working at it for years. I'm OK with that. Being an author is not an end, it's a process. Even the best writers in the world strive to do it better with the next book. People who think they've mastered it all in writing are fooling themselves.

Second, I write about a less popular character or subjects. Jolee's funny, but people like Revan, Carth, Exile, Atton, Bastila, and Brianna a lot better and they gravitate to those fics.

Third, and probably most important, I don't have a lot of time to spend contributing to the community with all the stuff I've had happen in the last few months. I'm lucky if I get to read the dueling circle challenges, much less comment on them, and I'm hoping to be more active there in the coming year because I enjoy it very much. It's the same as here--the most active commenters tend to receive more comments on their fics as well. If you both take the time to read and comment in others' fics, I think you'll see the commentary in yours pick up as well.

I can tell you the single best way to alienate people from reading your stories, and that's to complain publicly in your fics about lack of readership. It looks like sour grapes, and people don't want to deal with that. If you want to complain, send me or the other mods a PM instead, but you're shooting yourself in the foot by griping about how people won't read your stories. That drives people away instead of drawing them in. You gotta catch flies with honey.

Doctor, quitting writing for lack of comments is sad, given your talent. If you don't feel like writing more fanfics, that's fine, but don't use lack of comments as an excuse to give up. That's not fair to anyone, including you. Contribute more to the community and keep writing and improving. Spending time evaluating others' works will also help you with your own writing--if you can catch the good and bad points in other fics, you can incorporate the good techniques into your writing and weed out the bad. Putting your fic list in your sig is fine. I have a link to my Jolee story, and I don't think that means I have a pride problem. :)

Know that I read every single thing you all write here. I may not get to it immediately because of time constraints of being a mom and a professional (family and work come before the forum), but I do read everything eventually. Commenting takes more time for me because I want to offer something more substantial than 'good fic'. I want to explain why I like something, and it takes time to do that.

Master Demonius
01-01-2007, 03:24 PM
I've read probly 13 or so fan fincs and only commented on a couple of them

Diego Varen
01-01-2007, 03:28 PM
As Jae has already said, not everyone has the time to read and critic on your Fic. I don't. That is why most of the time, my comments are "Good Chapter and I'm looking foward to more".

Jae Onasi
01-01-2007, 04:33 PM
Pottsie, I hope that doesn't mean you're just putting something down to make a post. I hope you're at least reading the fics before writing that and actually feel they're good. If you're not reading the fics, yet you're writing that you think they're good, that's not honest to the writer and it becomes a meaningless (and spammy) post. Don't make a post if you a. have not read the work and b. don't really mean what you're saying. This is not a place to boost post counts.

The Doctor
01-01-2007, 11:34 PM
Jae, you cannot deny that there is a clique factor to every aspect of LucasForums. You may not see it, but that's because you fit into it better than others. The fact of the matter is, friends comment in their friends' fics. Most of the time, anyway - I know that some of my friends don't post in my fics. Even when they say they'll read and comment. Kind of ticks me off, being lied to like that.

Inyri
01-02-2007, 12:19 AM
There is always the aspect of the "clique." It's unavoidable. We're human, after all, and when we see something we like we tend to stick with it. This is one reason, for instance, a lot of people will buy only one brand of vehicles, regardless of whether it's the best quality brand out there. It's not always because, say, they dislike Fords.

I don't read fanfiction often myself. I have this undeniable urge to "help" people with their spelling and grammar, and regardless of what people claim, they usually would rather not be corrected. I could go around the fan fiction forums here and give people oodles of tips on how to sound more professional, how to fix this or that comma splice. The thing is, though, that it's fan fiction. Nobody should need to be perfect. Although when I do find myself reading them, I often find a proofread or two could help immensely.

But really, if nobody reads your work it's not because it sucks. After all, they'd have to read it to know that, wouldn't they? And you can always count on people to voice their opinions. This is a forum. If you really want people to read your work that badly, I would recommend passing it around to some of your friends, or your family. Or even an english teacher/professor. They can give you the criticisms you seem to desperately need.

Jae Onasi
01-02-2007, 03:41 AM
Jae, you cannot deny that there is a clique factor to every aspect of LucasForums. You may not see it, but that's because you fit into it better than others.
'Clique' to me means a group of people that are intentionally exclusionary of others, and I have not found one single thread in CEC where someone was intentionally mean to another forumite or attempted to exclude someone. I try to be diligent in removing the very rare nasty posts that crop up as quickly as possible, and I know the other mods here in SWK try hard to do that as well. Unless people are gossiping via PM (which I doubt), I think you might be putting more weight on the clique theory than it might deserve. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I think there are other weightier factors to the comment issue than the clique theory.
And I can see cliques (and they're not exclusionary in CEC), Doctor, but I'm at the point in life where I don't worry so much about what people think of me anymore. ;) I try to be decent to everyone, and if they like me, fine, and if they don't, there are plenty other people in the world to interact with.

The fact of the matter is, friends comment in their friends' fics. Most of the time, anyway - I know that some of my friends don't post in my fics. Even when they say they'll read and comment. Kind of ticks me off, being lied to like that.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I'll agree to do something and get swamped and forget I'd agreed to that. I wasn't lying, I just forgot, and I didn't even mean to do that, and when I get called on it I'm usually quite embarrassed, because I don't like slipping up on my committments. I think it's that way with most people. A gentle reminder (I sense a reminder PM from Devon coming about the RP and the atheism issues... :D ) often will do the trick. We have a pretty decent bunch of people around here--assuming someone had a negative motive of lying when it might be a simple error/forgetfulness is not entirely fair. If someone agreed to do a review and didn't follow through, you can always contact them about it again in a tactful way. "Hey, you're probably really busy, but would it be possible to review the story by next week? The information will be helpful for me for my next chapters. If you can't, let me know. :) " or something along that lines can be helpful in jogging the memory--just don't nag after that.

Anakin Skywalker
01-02-2007, 03:48 AM
You guy's are reading too much in to this....... people just don't have time lately to comment on a fic that they think is good.... the holiday's have just ended, so I will have more time to read fics, and I will continue to Comment on them..... but sometimes I don't have anything to say except "Good Fic, can't wait for the next chapter" because there is really nothing you need to improve on IMO, but other people always find something to complain about :D.... so no Jae, I don't use this place to "boost" my post count...

Jae Onasi
01-02-2007, 09:26 AM
I disagree that there's nothing we can improve on in our fics. If nothing else, say _why_ you liked it. What drew you in? The characters? The scene was really well developed? It moved along well? The action was exciting? There are plenty of things you can say to explain why you liked something.

Truthfully, we're all amateurs here except for mach, and there are always things we can improve upon. Are we using good grammar and spelling? Where did the story bog down and lose your interest or you felt like you had to just read past to get to the interesting stuff? Does it move so fast that you don't 'see' what's happening in the scene? Is the dialog awkward? Is the action not descriptive enough? Did you have trouble understanding why the characters did something, or why they're feeling the way they feel?

All of these things are things you can look at when reading a fic so that you can help the writer become better. Knowing what worked well is just as important as what didn't work well, and we all should find something constructive when commenting. :)

Quanon
01-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Listen to the wise Jae people ! I just have started recently with writing and drawing things for SW . I don't have a high count of viewers or many replies , besides Pottsie , CSI and some lost souls . But I did notice when I putted some links in my sig , I got more viewers . I don't see what so negative about that , most people here put links in their sig , it doesn't bother me at all .
But I must admid they don't read much fan fics , I don't read everything from CSI or Pottsie , sometimes I start reading but forget how the threads title was ... besides most people are bussy here with their own Fics and it takes time to write . Just don't let it bother you that much or you'll end up with a very poor live if this is your attitude towards anything you do .

Anakin Skywalker
01-02-2007, 03:37 PM
I disagree that there's nothing we can improve on in our fics. If nothing else, say _why_ you liked it. What drew you in? The characters? The scene was really well developed? It moved along well? The action was exciting? There are plenty of things you can say to explain why you liked something.

Jae..... I was sayin I personally do not find anything to comment on, usually bc someone else beat me to it ;) But, you know...... people are busy now..... especially modders... and there are a few modders who read and write fics.... so don't take it offensively if someone doesn't get to comment on it..... or there are no comments, chances are that it's good, but the readers just don't have time to comment

Didn't mean to make it sound like it was directed at you in particular. It was meant to be more generalized. Sorry! --Jae

Sabretooth
01-03-2007, 07:19 AM
When I started writing Jaden Korr - Darth Qollous, I never thought of an audience. My literature flowed from my head to my fingers to the web. I only wanted a place to write, a place where my writings will be etched permanently, so that I need not dream these fics in my head all the time. The audience I got built up slowly, after a few commentless chapters, I soon got a more dedicated audience. I got regular readers, and many more. My view count was torpedoing before my very eyes.

The lesson to be learnt is, always write from your heart and about yourself. Never believe that just because you don't get replies, nobody is reading your fics. You are as recognized as the guy next to you. Write for yourself first and your community later.

If people have something to comment about, they will. If they don't they won't, that simple. Just don't take it too seriously, because some authors get liked a lot, by a lot of people. Their threads become discussions about the fic, since we have a lot of people appreciating the place. Remember, write well and you will be rewarded.

Going to the more technical side, I'll say write properly. Avoid spelling and grammar errors, specifically the latter. Try to write legibly and don't forget to read and correct yourself. Put yourself in the shoes of a naive reader and think of what your fic would look like in his eyes. Keep your paragraphs pertinent and short - there is a difference between reading on the web and reading a book.

According to a study I had seen on the net, an average user will rarely "read" a page, but will rather scan through a page to absorb it's most important keywords, and ignore stuff like grammar, common nouns and so on. Keep your sentences and paragraphs short. Your chapters should be sized so that they can be easily read in a few minutes - most users won't bother reading a fanfic for several minutes on end. But try not to keep them too very short.

Keep your content pertinent. Avoid dabbling in the unnecessary, except in a few instances. Stick to your plot and before you start, think out what you want in your fanfiction. List out a few events, the beginning, the end. Avoid taking your twists too crazily and windingly, unless your fic is supposed to be that way.

Think out your chapter beforehand and remember to EDIT, EDIT, EDIT!!!

Finally, A good idea is to bribe a moderator into increasing your thread's post count by 5000. <_< >_>

Kas'!m
01-03-2007, 09:41 AM
Truthfully, we're all amateurs here except for mach...


You all may be but I am not. I've been doing this for more than five years.

I stand corrected. :) --Jae

Diego Varen
01-03-2007, 11:20 AM
You all may be but I am not. I've been doing this for more than five years.

Then how come you needed a beta reader for your Fic? Sorry to sound rude, but when I first started writing Fics, around this time last year, I improved in my opinion. Anyway, Sabre has given a good explanation.

Edit: Another way to get your Fic noticed is to, as mentioned earlier, put a link of your Fic in your Sig and PM all your buddies on your Buddy List and if they may read it. Most of the people on my Buddy List, like Anakin Skywalker and CSI: Nihilus are members who read my Fics.

The Doctor
01-03-2007, 01:16 PM
Jae, I was never trying to imply that people go out of their way to avoid reading stuff written by certain people. What I'm saying is, people don't give new writers a chance. It's hard for a new writer around here to get people to read their stuff - and it has an effect on self esteem when it does get views, but only gets one comment for every 50 views. It makes one think 'Hey, it must be pretty bad if nobody wants to say anything about it'. And that can kind of make one lose interest in posting their work. I know it's the reason I stopped posting my stuff. I still write it, I just don't post it, because nobody seems to care.

You all may be but I am not. I've been doing this for more than five years.
I've been reading music since I was five years old. Does that make me a professional muscian? Until you publish something, you're an amateur. An experienced amateur, sure but an amateur all the same.

Kas'!m
01-03-2007, 01:28 PM
Then how come you needed a beta reader for your Fic?
All writers need editors, even experienced ones.

I've been reading music since I was five years old. Does that make me a professional muscian? Until you publish something, you're an amateur. An experienced amateur, sure but an amateur all the same.
If you say so.

Diego Varen
01-03-2007, 01:30 PM
All writers needs editors, even experienced ones.

That's true, I suppose.

Pottsie, I have a bazillion years of college under my belt, so you might think that I wouldn't need a beta-reader. However, I've found my beta-readers have been absolutely invaluable and have given me incredible advice. I am very thankful to have their help because it's made my writing a lot better as a result. A beta-reader can pick up things that you or I as authors don't see because we're 'too close' to our own work sometimes to notice some of the little problems. --Jae

Vaelastraz
01-03-2007, 03:18 PM
Here's the opinion of an occasional fanfic reader...

When I look for interesting fics (which doesn't happen too often) I will not click on everything...
Very important for me is a promising title. The fic "Freefall" for example cought my eyes. It's an unorthodox title, and I'm interested in fresh story ideas.
And it turned out, the fic is good. Did I comment on it? No. At least I think I did not. Really, a good title for the fic WILL catch attention. Be creative.


BTW: I just did a search on threads started by you Doctor. And I was surprised that I've read almost all of them. I even commented on some of them, but since I'm no native english speaker I can't say more than "Good fic".
You fics are very very good. And you have good titles too. I wonder why you just got 200-300 views on them. I think they are brilliant. If you have written more fics, post them and if it's only for a few interested readers like me.

Jae Onasi
01-03-2007, 07:54 PM
I did some stats on the reply-to-view ratio. I took 100 fics (from the first 3 pages) and did the stats on those (100 because that's a decent sample size). Out of those 100 I found some of the following info:
83 had fewer than 1000 views, 17 had more than 1000 views.

The average reply-to-view ratio is 6.447%. The standard deviation is 3.45%. Range went from lowest at 0 reply-to-view, and highest was 18.0 reply-to-view ratio (and the highest ratio actually had low views).
For the fics with more than 1000 views, the ratio actually dropped--average reply-to-view ratio was 5.901% and the standard deviation was 1.902%.

What this means: if your fic has under 1000 views and gets a reply-to-view ratio of 2.997-9.897%, you're within 1 standard deviation of the norm, meaning you're well within the normal range. Now, we may not like getting 3 replies out of 100 views, but that's actually within the normal range, because the average is about 6.4 replies out of 100 viewers.
If your fic has over 1000 views, and your reply-to-view ratio is 2.036%-9.766% (mean plus 2 standard deviations), you're also in a normal range.

@The Doctor--I did just a quick stat thing on 9 of your fics--your average is around 4.78%, with a standard deviation of +/-2.83%. That's well within normal ranges, and 1 in a little over 20 views, rather than 1 reply in 50, _on average_. :)

ForceFightWMe12
01-03-2007, 08:10 PM
In reply to the whole 'amateur' thing:

I've been writting for two and a half years now -- since I was twelve years old, that's right -- and you would be amazed to see how much my writting style has changed. Obviously, a lot of it has to do with age, but still. It doesn't matter how long you've been writting, there's always room for improvement. And though people may say different, I agree with Doc - you're no more than an amateur until you're officially published. Even then, there is more to learn.

It's the same thing with a beta reader. Admittedly, I didn't use a beta reader for the longest time, but, now that I'm working on another fic, I always run every chapter - even if it's incomplete at the time - past a friend of mine. Often times I show quite a few people, just to be sure. You would be surprise how many mistakes you can miss, and how many things can be reworded to sound better.

And in regards to the review ratio thing...I say ignore the review count. Just because you don't have a whole ton of reviews doesn't mean your story is bad - it just means that you need to get out there and get yourself noticed. Stick a link or summary in your sig, if you're good with graphics, make a linky-sig for your story. One thing I highly suggest not doing is pestering people in their threads for reviews. Going to a story you really like and asking the author to review it a hundred million times is not going to make the author want to read your story any more than before. This I know from experience.
It's also a form of spam and will now get deleted. If you get pestered with requests again, PM me or another mod, and we'll take care of it. :) --Jae

Sorry for jumping in the thread late :xp:

Emperor Devon
01-04-2007, 01:06 AM
(I sense a reminder PM from Devon coming about the RP and the atheism issues... :D )

In organized debate, silence is concession. I'll take your lack of posts as that, then. No biggie, I'm not one to brag about my victories (to a point). :giggle1:

The duel: I think we know which one of us Is Infinitely Superior at D20. You can't get past the red dragon; I beat her on my first try. :xp:

You're right, she's very much alive in my little world. And, nice try Devon. Editing my comment is very naughty. :xp: --Jae

However, I've found my beta-readers have been absolutely invaluable and have given me incredible advice. I am very thankful to have their help because it's made my writing a lot better as a result.

I take it you're referring to Jiara instead of me? :D

Well, I used the plural here, and unless Jiara's managed to create multiples of herself, that would definitely include you. ;) --Jae

And to stay on-topic, my thoughts on the issue of comments:

This may sound harsh to you, but there really isn't a lot to motivate someone to comment. The author can only say so much in response to 'good fic' after hearing it for the twenty-eight time. Yes, you can always write multiple-page reviews on it that are bound to result in a long discussion... But really, who has the time to do that? I'm fairly busy, and have grades to keep up - commenting on the fics that I read really isn't that high on my list of priorities, and hearing people ask for more does nothing to change that - I comment on things because I have something to say, not to massage anyone's ego or boost my post count.

Some circumstances are understandable - mach did an incredible job at Return From Exile, and was frustrated with the lack of comments in it. He asked for more, and that made a point - he was writing a fabulous story and wasn't getting any feedback, so I commented on it. But with that logic, why don't I go about commenting on everyone's fics just because they want to hear good things about it? Several reasons:

(1. It has to be worth commenting on. This may sound harsh, but if I read something I don't like, I won't say anything about it (if you have nothing good to say, it's best to stay silent). Even if it's kinda good, I won't have much of an opinion - there has to be an actual reason for me to say something. With mach's fic, I enjoyed it quite a bit and had opinions to share, so his request prompted me to.

(2. This forum is here to share fics, not positive reinforcement therapy. If your fic doesn't suit people's tastes, they won't comment on it - there's absolutely no reason to.

(3. Time. I'll flog this dead horse one more time - people are busy. Even with the fics I've enjoyed, my comments haven't been the best ones I could give - I simply didn't have time to write an essay, and I have other things to do.

(4. In real life, people won't recognize accomplishments if they've not accomplished much - that should be no different here.

So, why aren't you getting comments? Either your work doesn't appeal to people, they're busy, or they've been discouraged from saying anything. To elaborate that, a 'please tell me I did a good job whether you think that or not' post will be as effective as giving flies vinegar. I myself have rather Objectivist (not a typo, that's an actual philosophy) views on hard work. It sounds harsh, but that's life for you. :)

And to flog this dead yet another time: Does it really matter that much if people comment? You're here to write for yourself, not everyone else. If you're truly desperate for an opinion, ask a buddy or someone in real life - but don't expect other forumites to if they're not interested.

Sabretooth
01-04-2007, 03:07 AM
About this "Amateur" discussion - I'm with Doc - you're no pro till you publish. I've been writing since I was six. (YES!) If you read JK-DQ and VoB/IH, you'll see a huge difference in writing style. I've been writing weird stories sicne I was in the first standard, but I've lost many of those now. I might post some of my earliest stories, if anyone's interested. ;)

A beta reader is an excellent idea, IMO. Not only a human proofreader, but also an great way to ensure that your fic is being read by atleast one guy. :xp:

Aristotélēsticus
01-04-2007, 12:16 PM
i think its a common problem for all of the CEC writers. most of us think that they dont get the "expected" reply ratio. still, i believe that it doesnt matter (well at least for me). i write because i like to write, to express my feelings, ideas and imagination. it doesnt matter that much whether if someone like it or not, especially in this forum regarding the fact that users who view the CEC are few. sometimes i hear ppl mocking of some of Goerge Lucas ideas like "the stupid little green god-like thing" A.K.A "Yoda", and sometimes i say to myself (and i am a big fan of SW) "with all these high technologies and they are still fighting with each others using sowrds!!!". what i meant to say is that you'll be ignored, and you'll be criticised but whatever!!! keep on writing :)

ForceFightWMe12
01-04-2007, 08:18 PM
Seeing your post, Ar-Pharazon, reminds me of another reason why I left very few comments when I was active here in the CEC.

Grammar. Please don't think I'm just picking on you Ar, because I know how many people tend to hardly care when posting regularly, but if you're going to post a story without proper capitalization, punctuation, spacing, or *shudder* netspeak, a lot of people will take one glance at it and move on to the next story. I know I will. Having broken up sentances and run-ons will do the same. It can be a fine line to walk between the two, but honestly, the better a story flows and the easier it is to read, the more people will be willing to read it.

Also, it is often a good idea to revise your work even before sending it to a beta reader. I go back to look at some of the fics that I've posted here (PoD *shudders again*) and am amazed at the way some of the sentances sounded and the little mistakes that could have easily been fixed if I had spent the time to look it over. Half the time I stare at the screen, thinking I can't believe I actually wrote that!! It really is terrible. Perhaps, if I have time, I should redo PoD...hm...

HK-42
01-04-2007, 09:25 PM
As pottsie said sig. also Kasim' I read it, i use to edit it.

The Doctor
01-04-2007, 10:13 PM
Seeing your post, Ar-Pharazon, reminds me of another reason why I left very few comments when I was active here in the CEC.

Grammar. Please don't think I'm just picking on you Ar, because I know how many people tend to hardly care when posting regularly, but if you're going to post a story without proper capitalization, punctuation, spacing, or *shudder* netspeak, a lot of people will take one glance at it and move on to the next story. I know I will. Having broken up sentances and run-ons will do the same. It can be a fine line to walk between the two, but honestly, the better a story flows and the easier it is to read, the more people will be willing to read it.

Also, it is often a good idea to revise your work even before sending it to a beta reader. I go back to look at some of the fics that I've posted here (PoD *shudders again*) and am amazed at the way some of the sentances sounded and the little mistakes that could have easily been fixed if I had spent the time to look it over. Half the time I stare at the screen, thinking I can't believe I actually wrote that!! It really is terrible. Perhaps, if I have time, I should redo PoD...hm...
You can't redo it until you finish it, Kira. :xp:

ForceFightWMe12
01-05-2007, 04:11 PM
>.>
<.<
...
Be quite you >P

JediMaster12
01-08-2007, 02:26 PM
Personally I get surprised when anyone reads my ramblings at all because the fiction prose world is something that I have not treaded very long. Yeah I wrote a few short stories in school but I always thought there were better ones. Poetry was more to my liking and I got to be good at it. My dad is a poet when he wants to be too so I guess I grabbed the bug from him.

As to getting noticed here on LF, I just post my chapters b/c it makes me happy and it gives me a chance to air my semicrazy ideas in the online nuthouse. I've had people say I should write professionally on the side and that boosts the confidence a bit. I have considered it since I will be expected to write texts for anthropology when I eventually get my Ph.D. Don't worry about getting noticed or the lack of comments. I know that I always get igyman and Pottsie to commentate, mainly because I taunt them with suspense and the flying manuscript. That's another thing, leave room for suspense. Believe it or not cliffhangers ensnare readers every time.

I understand that people can have time to just view and not comment. Today I found time to write comments in the short stories nominated but I read them. Don't fret. If writing makes you happy, then write. If can't think about nothing but being a writer, then you're a writer. That I got from a movie and I found it to be so true.

PS: ED- I also beta for Jae and it is always a pleasure because I see it as a sneak peek.

And I am very grateful for the help, too!!! --Jae

Aristotélēsticus
01-08-2007, 02:31 PM
Seeing your post, Ar-Pharazon, reminds me of another reason why I left very few comments when I was active here in the CEC...

you're speaking the truth Kira. as for me, i can tolerate such mistakes (maybe because i make some myself). still, there are two main reasons why i do tolerate these mistakes:

1. there are many users who speak english as their second or third language.

2. the other reason is personal: in fact i pay more attention
for new and creative ideas, not those that represent only new versions of SW stories.

ps: no offence ment to anyone.

Darkkender
01-08-2007, 06:41 PM
I would like to chime in on one point of discussion on this thread. That is the topic of Pro vs Amateur.

I will agree that being published should place you above being an Amateur, however I myself am a published author technically. Even though I'm published as an author I am in no way a Professional. Yes I get a royalty check every year of the sales but considering it usually averages $50 I would say that isn't much. Not to mention the work is little better than a 1-2 paragraph high school book report printed on a plate or a coffee cup. It counts as a published work for a protfolio but it's not professional.

Also anybody who writes a Fanfic in particular one that gets mentioned by Mach on SWK, is a published author or Professional by the definition given above. In fact your posted Fanfics are published technically when it comes to presenting a portfolio. This is just like a graphic artist and there art, from small web banners to big billboards it is a form of published work.

I would say a better definition of a professional writer is a person who writes for a living while an amatuer is one who writes for a hobby. Or you could say writes for money vs writes for free.

JediMaster12
01-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Good point there. To me a good review from mach tells me something about my style. Granted he has had few complaints about my ramblings, I find it invaluable as a writer to me because I know what I need to work on and be a better writer. To get better you have to practice.

I am a published author myself but in the realm of poetry and I've had people groveling at my feet ever since and that was an anthology of different authors along with mine. Maybe I live in an ideal world where the published word means that your voice and your opinions are heard but hey we all have our dreams right?

Anyway patience is the key. Your time will come when you come out with that story that rocks the boards.

Good point you made Darkkender. I never distinguished the difference before.

Uilleand
10-29-2007, 03:28 PM
Re: Professional vs. amateur

Funny, I've made a living with my keyboard for more than 17 years, but I still don't think I manage to call myself a 'professional writer.' That might just be my own cynicism talking - I can barely call myself a 'journalist' with a straight face, either.

As for getting fics noticed - it's a strange thing that we do here, isn't it? We take someone else's world and make it our own, and yet still manage to get our own self-esteem hopelessly tied to the criticism and reaction we receive. If I get 10 comments on a story, and seven are positive, it's the three negative ones that will send me to bed, completely despondent. The fear, of course, is that no comments = 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.'

Honestly, my experience in most fanfic enviros is that friends crit friends - but that can be pretty positive. If I crit an author that I've really enjoyed, I enjoy their take on my work that much more - because I respect their talent. I don't think I'd get much out of 'ZOMG!!1! That wuz awsum!'

Well, maybe that's a lie. *chuckle* There are some days, I'd be thrilled to even get that much!