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JRHockney*
01-20-2007, 05:06 PM
Man our forums have been dead for a while now. in order to breath some life back into OJP for a bit, I made a ton of code changes that will hopefully balance what we have so far and also adding a few things. I tried to think of every cheap exploit we have and do something aboiut them in a balanced fashion without recking features. I am not a very good coder at all so alot of the new ways of balancing features that I chose were chosen because I couldn't get other ways to work :p I Like the end result though.

I don't think anything I did was a hack. Its all based on how the code is already set up. Some of the features in my code were already at the repository when I updated so I cant take credit for everything. Also, this is by no means an official beta release eventhough there are some official features in it from the repository. I do think that alot of what I have in here should be the way to balance things though, but the community will have to decide that.

EDIT: heres a new one that is mentioned at the bottom of the thread.
http://files.filefront.com//;6848412;;/ From Jacks post. This one has mindtrick working I believe.


If you guys want to play with maxstates anims, use one of his old cfgs for them. I took them outbecause without them, the stall bugs in Makashi and juyo don't appear (I use the ones old anims from 0.0.9e). This is just a temporary fix until a good coder or animator can figure out whats really wrong with them. IF the server has the default anims, people joining who have max's anims MIGHT be able to use them without the bugs but I'm not sure.

Now for the new changes and features.

New addtions:

- SFX_Sabers!!! You can turn them on and off with a wonderful new cvar that Lathain made. THe Cvar is: SFX_Sabers 1 or 0. Warning: a person on the server who is using default sabers will see the SFX_sabers messed up and vice versa because they are different code. Also, RGB sabers dont work with the SFX_Sabers. I love how much better these make the combat look.

- Single saber style differences!! I based these on some older forum ideas as well as some of my own. They are as follows:

Blue: 12 DP damage and a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times. Based on Maxstates old idea and how Soreau is suppose to be a defensive style. I lowered the DP to 12 to cut nerf of blue's hacksaw ability a bit.

Aqua: 14 DP damage and it does a little mishap damage for hitting someone and not getting parried. Based on Count dookus aggressive Makashi and overwhelming opponents with speed and percision.

Yellow: 15 DP damage and a slightly faster mishap regen. Based on the idea that shii cho is a "balanced form" :p I also wanted to give yellow a more benifitial perk.

purple: 16 DP damage and slghtly faster FP regen. Since juyos a powerful form and sith like it alot, I figured FP regen was the best way to give them more swing endurance and force power usage without overpowering it.

Red: 17 DP damage and a multiplier for attackfakes hitting without being parried that adds 10% DP damage each time. THis is based on max's old idea as well and on djem so's power style.

The multipliers seemed to work ok based on my testing, but this is my first time using loops in C code so I'm not sure.

- I retooled saber reflecting so it works a little better. Now you just have to hold attack to reflect the bolts more accurately. Sadly, level 1 and 2 still arent very accurate, but level 3 usually goes to were you are aiming. You an't reflect while running though. I still think this could work better though, but I'm not sure what I can do to the code to make it so since most of it is beyond my understanding.

- I expanded the mishap range at which heavybounces happen so they show up more often. I also created a higher mishap level in the heavybounce range were only there are you vulnerable force powers. The force vulnerability leve is a little over 75% full.

I wanted to add stuff to the skill menu myself, but I couldnt find the code to do it. Can anyone help me here?

The following new fixes and features were already at the repository:

Version 0.0.9s:

New Features:

Stun Shield (StunShield):
- Force field item now acts like stun shield. Enemies that touch the field are knocked to the ground.

Weapon System:

Misc:
- Dropped weapons now have the ammo amount that their owners had when the weapon was dropped.

Improvements/Fixes:

CoOp:
- Fixed time limits for CoOp maps.

Experience System:
- Fixed problem where skill points weren't being saved between gametypes.

Fatigue System:
- Fatigue in Siege now behaves the same as in the other gametypes.

Flamethrower:
- Boosted fuel cost to 3. (JRHockney: this helped alot)

Improved Seeker Item:
- Fixed problem with seekers not attacking other players outside of CoOp.

Ledge Grab:
- You can now grab onto ledges created by solid non-brush entities such as a misc_model_breakable.

Saber Combat System:

Blocking:
- Having Saber Defense 3 allows players to block back attacks without the extra DP cost.
- Players can now saber block while in a stumble.

Saber fix:
- Saber will no longer fall though some solid objects when thrown.

Ledge Grab:
- You can now grab onto ledges created by solid non-brush entities such as a misc_model_breakable

Sentry Gun (SentryGun):
- Can now have multiple sentry guns.
- Doesn't target player's seekers.
- Has larger ammo supply.
- Doesn't self-destruct from old age.


Now for my new balancing features and fixes:

- Based on razors suggestion, I made attack parries (pushparries/reposits) done by requiring hold both attack AND alt attack while parrying. This seemed to help those random parries from not happening alot. Hopefully we won't see any other side effects to it and it wont overpower doing attackfakes.

- I made running cut DP regen in half for anyone with a saber. This seems to have helped make normal guns alot more useful against jedi while allowing jedi to stand there and reflect if they want. I tried to make it range based in general, but I couldn't figure it out and this seemed to help enough for the moment.

- I created a feature where gunners lose DP while running at double the rate of the DP regen. Once they get to critical, whether they have absorb 3 or not, they are vulnerable to forcepowers. THis allows for both quake 3 like combat of running gunners and MB2 style of walking to be less vulnerable. Gunners can just switch to melee to avoid the drain I think. I tried to make it in the air too, but it didn't work in my code; although since regen stops anyways its not that big of a deal.

- Just so pure gunners aren't too badly force spammed, I made it so that Jedi can only use force powers if they have over 75% DP, so gunners can shoot them 2 or 3 times while their running or use a det to stop them from using force.

- I made jedi or melee people vulnerable to force while they use flamethrower so they are penalized for binding and avoiding the penalties of not being a gunner or hybrid gunner.

- I tried to make falmethrower drain at twice the rate if someone tries to use ito with lightning, but I havent tested it out yet. The flamethrower drains so fast now anyways its really not that big of a problem anymore.

- I made getting hit while kicking cost *1.5 the normal damage and took away the ability to parry in kick. I did this because I still wanted kick useful for two on one, but didn't want it to be so spammable.

- I also made a *1.5 damage for hitting someone in a stumble since the repository code made it possible to block in stumble, but didnt add anyother penalty.

Now for the bad news. Since I didn't have the patience to reinstall all my repository code and my visual studios just to get my windows headers back, and then figureout why the heck it didnt compile originally (which I probably couldn't figure out anyways), I took out the newer crash protection code just so I could get to work on this stuff. I havent really experienced any differences with it gone though. I'll probably get around to it eventually, but taking a chance of losing my changes to do something that is no fun and I don't even know if I can do is not worth the risk.

Also I could not fix the lightning mishap problems and a few others.

Well, I think that's everything. I'll probably think of something else I did later though and add it here. :p I hope this will keep you guys busy until Razor has the time to do more work here.

Buffy
01-21-2007, 01:04 AM
I get
403 - Forbidden
:(

could you upload some more other links too ?
thank you ;)
http://www.uploading.com/en/
http://uploadhosted.filefront.com/
http://www.mooload.com/new/

JRHockney*
01-21-2007, 03:23 AM
The Uploading site never produced a link after I uploaded it but the other two sites worked. Hopefully one of them will work for you.

Here's those files for filefront: http://files.filefront.com//;6577624;;/
and http://files.filefront.com//;6577643;;/

Here's the links for mooload: http://www.mooload.com/new/file.php?file=files/210107/1169363962/ojp_enhanceddlls_009+jon%27s+changes.pk3
and http://www.mooload.com/new/file.php?file=files/210107/1169364060/SFX_Saber+stuff.zip

EDIT: ah ha! I finally got file front to expect my entire zip file. Heres a more complete package: http://files.filefront.com//;6577886;;/

Maxstate
01-21-2007, 06:50 AM
:eek:
..







..






:eek:

Lets try this out lawl, reporting back in a few hours :p

madcatmach2
01-21-2007, 04:22 PM
before i make the switch is there a server i can try this out on cus we all know theres a big diff between bots and people

Buffy
01-21-2007, 04:32 PM
filefront work for me ;)

Maxstate
01-21-2007, 05:42 PM
before i make the switch is there a server i can try this out on cus we all know theres a big diff between bots and people
I had my good friend JaSK upload it on the templars, enjoy.

Lathain Valtiel
01-22-2007, 07:35 AM
SFX_Sabers!!! You can turn them on and off with a wonderful new cvar that Lathain made. THe Cvar is: SFX_Sabers 1 or 0. Warning: a person on the server who is using default sabers will see the SFX_sabers messed up and vice versa because they are different code. Also, RGB sabers dont work with the SFX_Sabers. I love how much better these make the combat look.

^ Wait WHAT?!

This can't be. I explicitly designed it so that if you set SFXSabers, you would see SFXSabers no matter what anyone else on the server had.

And RGB don't work with my SFX code? Okay, I messed up badly somewhere... especially since I could've sworn Max made them work.

EDIT: Errr... Jon?

In your dll pack... where's the cgame? All of the SFX code was cgame code, therefore you need a changed cgame DLL if you want it to work. This is why you have that bug in the servers I suspect: they don't have the cgame code required. I would also like to see your cg_players.c.

JRHockney*
01-22-2007, 09:37 AM
EDIT: Errr... Jon?

In your dll pack... where's the cgame? All of the SFX code was cgame code, therefore you need a changed cgame DLL if you want it to work. This is why you have that bug in the servers I suspect: they don't have the cgame code required. I would also like to see your cg_players.c.

Aww crap, no wonder it wasn't working for other players on the server :( I'll make a new one after work with a few more bug fixes as well.

Maxstate
01-22-2007, 12:47 PM
I did get them to work after a friend compiled them, but they don't work anymore.. weird. I don't mind though, my sabers and trails are so good I sometimes hardly even notice *shameless self promotion* :p

madcatmach2
01-22-2007, 01:01 PM
hmm ic i gess ill wait for the fixed version and then ill test it out on the templar server

JRHockney*
01-22-2007, 08:49 PM
Alright heres the fixed version: http://files.filefront.com//;6589212;;/
I'll put it up top too.

bug fixes:

- made sure the cgame code was in there so the SFX_sabers work

- fixed the bug with Juyo were it didnt have a faster fp gain like it was suppose to.

- Made the dual saber spin and staff saber spin moves do only *.75 damage like the lunge since they seem to hit several times per usage as Max showed me. hopefully this will be a good enough fix for now.

And Lathain, I will give you my cgplayers file next time I see you on AIM.

madcatmach2
01-23-2007, 09:48 PM
ok i havent tested everything yet but i wanted to give u my opinion while it was still fresh in my mind
1. I loved the new run thing for gunners it made it loads easier to hit the running gunners insted of the normal 3/4 swings

2. i like the stun shield its pritty usefull for a quick surprise to slow down people in say CTF now they fust cant stand there as easily and destroy the shield

hope to have more opinions after some more in depth testing as its exams this week and my time is limited

crail227
01-23-2007, 11:45 PM
were the new stances and animations left out intentionally?

Maxstate
01-24-2007, 04:33 AM
were the new stances and animations left out intentionally?
Yeah

UDM
01-24-2007, 12:12 PM
I get this error:

Corrupt JPEG data: premature end of data segment
Shutting down OpenGL subsystem
Unsupported marker type 0x82

:(

JRHockney*
01-24-2007, 07:45 PM
I get this error:

Corrupt JPEG data: premature end of data segment
Shutting down OpenGL subsystem
Unsupported marker type 0x82

:(


aww crap. I'm not even sure what that means. Make sure theres nothing strange in your based or Enhanced folder that could potentially conflict, especially files that have dlls in them (though that would mainly be a problem in your Enhanced folder I think). Does any body else have that problem?

Maxstate
01-25-2007, 07:50 AM
I''m guessing it might be a corrupt file?

madcatmach2
01-25-2007, 04:00 PM
i never got that problem

JRHockney*
02-03-2007, 11:19 PM
well, I've been able to test my code changes with several people and I must say I think I've struck a very good balance between Jedi and gunner combat and so do the people I've tested with. I really wish I knew why the templar server started crashing with these changes :( I'm assuming it has more to do with corrupt files though. I'll try to post an updated version when I'm at my computer.

I also love the more recent changes I made to the saber combat as well. Aside from the changes I've already posted about, I also made it so that those quick pauses for every hit and block or parry only happen when you block without parrying and only happen on your swings when you are lower than 1/2 of your DP level. This looks the most movie realistic I've seen yet and really allow for both old trilogy looking combat as well as new trilogy without making things unbalanced. In fact, this helps offensive combat just enough to be balanced against defensive.

I hope we can consider keeping some or all of these changes for the actual mod. I'm still trying to figure out how to add things to the skill menu, but I'm kind clueless. Does anybody know how to do that? That lightning mishap bar thing also really needs to be fixed and thats out of my knowledge level.

Maxstate
02-07-2007, 03:49 PM
Great stuff.

Though I seem to be crashing when I add TABbots to the game or when I discover enemies in Coop.

razorace
02-13-2007, 02:41 PM
well, I've been able to test my code changes with several people and I must say I think I've struck a very good balance between Jedi and gunner combat and so do the people I've tested with. I really wish I knew why the templar server started crashing with these changes :( I'm assuming it has more to do with corrupt files though. I'll try to post an updated version when I'm at my computer.

I also love the more recent changes I made to the saber combat as well. Aside from the changes I've already posted about, I also made it so that those quick pauses for every hit and block or parry only happen when you block without parrying and only happen on your swings when you are lower than 1/2 of your DP level. This looks the most movie realistic I've seen yet and really allow for both old trilogy looking combat as well as new trilogy without making things unbalanced. In fact, this helps offensive combat just enough to be balanced against defensive.

I hope we can consider keeping some or all of these changes for the actual mod. I'm still trying to figure out how to add things to the skill menu, but I'm kind clueless. Does anybody know how to do that? That lightning mishap bar thing also really needs to be fixed and thats out of my knowledge level.
I'm glad you're happy with the changes. They sound good. We can talk about intergrating them into OJP when I have time. Unfortunately, it's crunch time here and it's also hectic with wedding planning and such.

As such, we're probably going to have to wait until I have more free time before we can talk. I'm guessing about a week or so. Just harass me (thru email) then to remind me then. :)

JRHockney*
02-13-2007, 10:25 PM
Unfortunately, it's crunch time here and it's also hectic with wedding planning and such.

Wedding?! Man, we really need to catch up! LOL!

Btw, I have mindtrick back in my code and I've almost got the repeater/clone rifle and the disruptor on the skill menu but for some reason, it makes the skill menu not appear when I select the skill menu on the root menu, and makes the root menu disappear as well when I select it. I think I have all my references right to the repeater and disruptor in the source code right, but this happens as soon as I reference them on the ingame_playerforce.menu. I do know that it happpens at the "ownerdraw UI_FORCE_RANK_....." area, but that means the problem is somewhere in the source code and I can't find it. Anyone who can code have any ideas?

ensiform
02-14-2007, 11:19 AM
check the console when you start game at main menu. You will probably see some errors in the menu load portions. Usually you have a typo or something when a menu does not show up.

razorace
02-20-2007, 01:50 PM
1. Refer to references to one of the UI_FORCE_RANK_ for one of the new skills.
2. Refer to SK_ for one of the new skills.
3. Make sure you update the forcerankdef (or something like that) so that the the skill is actually updated on the UI side.
4. Refer to one of the changesets for one of the new skills that I added. In theory, several of the changesets should relate to just the addition of a new skill.

JRHockney*
02-20-2007, 11:23 PM
1. Refer to references to one of the UI_FORCE_RANK_ for one of the new skills.
2. Refer to SK_ for one of the new skills.
3. Make sure you update the forcerankdef (or something like that) so that the the skill is actually updated on the UI side.
4. Refer to one of the changesets for one of the new skills that I added. In theory, several of the changesets should relate to just the addition of a new skill.

Ok I'm not sure what alot of that means. I'l just post the code changes i made to try to bring about the repeater and disruptor:

in menudef.h, I added to the expsys skill list:

#define UI_FORCE_RANK_REPEATER 311 //added by JRHockney
#define UI_FORCE_RANK_DISRUPTOR 312 //added by JRHockney

in ui.force.c, I added this under qboolean uiForcePowersDisabled[NUM_TOTAL_SKILLS] = {:

qfalse,//SK_REPEATER, //repeater/clone rifle skill added by JRHockney
qfalse//SK_DISRUPTOR, //Disruptor/sniper rifle skill added by JRHockney

this, under int uiForcePowersRank[NUM_TOTAL_SKILLS] = { and int uiForcePowerDarkLight[NUM_TOTAL_SKILLS] =:

0,//SK_REPEATER, //repeater/clone rifle skill added by JRHockney
0//SK_DISRUPTOR, //Disruptor/sniper rifle skill added by JRHockney

added two i%'s to this:
trap_Cvar_Set( "forcepowers", va("%i-%i-%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i %i%i%i%i%i%i%i%i"

and uiForcePowersRank[31],//added by JRHockney
uiForcePowersRank[32]) );

In bg_misc.c, I added this to int bgForcePowerCost[NUM_TOTAL_SKILLS][NUM_FORCE_POWER_LEVELS] =:

{ 0, 8, 8, 8 }, //SK_REPEATER, // repeater/clone rifle skill added by JRHockney
{ 0, 8, 8, 8 } //SK_DISRUPTOR, // Disruptor/sniper rifle skill added by JRHockney

In ui_main.c under static int UI_OwnerDrawWidth(int ownerDraw, float scale) {, static void UI_OwnerDraw(float x, float y, float.....bah,bah,bah, and static qboolean UI_OwnerDrawHandleKey(int ownerDraw, int flags, float *special, int key) {, I added:

case UI_FORCE_RANK_REPEATER://added by JRHockney
case UI_FORCE_RANK_DISRUPTOR://added by JRHockney

In ui_shared.c, under qboolean Item_OwnerDraw_HandleKey(itemDef_t *item, int key) {, I added:

case UI_FORCE_RANK_REPEATER://added by JRHockney
case UI_FORCE_RANK_DISRUPTOR://added by JRHockney

in q_shared.h, I added to the skill list:

SK_REPEATER, //Repeater/clone Rifle skill added by JRHockney
SK_DISRUPTOR, //Disruptor/sniper rifle skill added by JRHockney

In g_client.c, I added along with the other weapons:

if (!wDisable || !(wDisable & (1 << WP_REPEATER)))//added by JRHockney
{
client->ps.stats[STAT_WEAPONS] |= ( 1 << WP_REPEATER );
}
if (!wDisable || !(wDisable & (1 << WP_DISRUPTOR)))//JRHockney
{
client->ps.stats[STAT_WEAPONS] |= ( 1 << WP_DISRUPTOR );
}

and this:

if(client->skillLevel[SK_REPEATER])
{//player has blaster added by JRHockney
if (!wDisable || !(wDisable & (1 << WP_REPEATER)))
{
client->ps.stats[STAT_WEAPONS] |= ( 1 << WP_REPEATER );
}
}
if(client->skillLevel[SK_DISRUPTOR])
{//player has blaster added by JRHockney
if (!wDisable || !(wDisable & (1 << WP_DISRUPTOR)))
{
client->ps.stats[STAT_WEAPONS] |= ( 1 << WP_DISRUPTOR );
}
}

and this in the ammo section:

client->ps.ammo[AMMO_POWERCELL] = ammoData[AMMO_POWERCELL].max * (float) client->skillLevel[SK_DISRUPTOR]/FORCE_LEVEL_3;//added by JRHockney

client->ps.ammo[AMMO_METAL_BOLTS] = ammoData[AMMO_METAL_BOLTS].max * (float) client->skillLevel[SK_REPEATER]/FORCE_LEVEL_3;//added by JRHockney

and some other less relevant stuff to the NPC.spawn code like this:
ent->client->skillLevel[SK_REPEATER] = FORCE_LEVEL_3;
ent->client->skillLevel[SK_DISRUPTOR] = FORCE_LEVEL_3;

in the ingame_playerforce.menu thing, I added this:

// repeater title by JRHockney
itemDef
{
name setsk_repeater
group gunpowers
style 0
text @OJP_MENUS_SKILL_REPEATER
rect 30 348 110 15
textalign ITEM_ALIGN_RIGHT
textalignx 105
textaligny 0
font 4
textscale 1
forecolor .2 1 .2 1
outlinecolor 1 .5 .5 .5
backcolor 0 0 0 0
border 0
bordercolor 0 0 0 0
visible 1
decoration
}

// repeater assign by JRHockney
itemDef
{
name setsk_repeater
group gunpowers
style 0
ownerdraw UI_FORCE_RANK_REPEATER
rect 30 348 175 15
textalign ITEM_ALIGN_LEFT
textalignx 115
textaligny -6
textscale .25
forecolor .2 1 .2 1
backcolor 0 0 0 0
forecolor 1 0.2 0.2 1
border 0
bordercolor 0 0 0 0
descText @OJP_MENUS_DESC_SKILL_REPEATER
visible 1
action
{
play "sound/interface/button1.wav" ;
}

mouseenter
{
setitemcolor setsk_repeater forecolor .7 1 2. 1
}
mouseexit
{
setitemcolor setsk_repeater forecolor .2 1 .2 1
}
}
// disruptor title by JRHockney
itemDef
{
name setsk_disruptor
group gunpowers
style 0
text @OJP_MENUS_SKILL_DISRUPTOR
rect 30 362 110 15
textalign ITEM_ALIGN_RIGHT
textalignx 105
textaligny 0
font 4
textscale 1
forecolor .2 1 .2 1
outlinecolor 1 .5 .5 .5
backcolor 0 0 0 0
border 0
bordercolor 0 0 0 0
visible 1
decoration
}

// diruptor assign by JRHockney
itemDef
{
name setsk_disruptor
group gunpowers
style 0
ownerdraw UI_FORCE_RANK_DISRUPTOR
rect 30 362 175 15
textalign ITEM_ALIGN_LEFT
textalignx 115
textaligny -6
textscale .25
forecolor .2 1 .2 1
backcolor 0 0 0 0
forecolor 1 0.2 0.2 1
border 0
bordercolor 0 0 0 0
descText @OJP_MENUS_DESC_SKILL_DISRUPTOR
visible 1
action
{
play "sound/interface/button1.wav" ;
}

mouseenter
{
setitemcolor setsk_disruptor forecolor .7 1 2. 1
}
mouseexit
{
setitemcolor setsk_disruptor forecolor .2 1 .2 1
}
}

and finally, in the all the langauge strings for the Menus stuff, I added this:

REFERENCE SKILL_REPEATER
LANG_ENGLISH "Clone Rifle:"

REFERENCE DESC_SKILL_REPEATER
LANG_ENGLISH "Gains the user the Clone Rifle."

REFERENCE SKILL_DISRUPTOR
LANG_ENGLISH "Disruptor:"

REFERENCE DESC_SKILL_DISRUPTOR
LANG_ENGLISH "Gains the user the Disruptor."



Whew! (sign) OK now will somebody who know how to code please tell me what I'm doing wrong? And while your at it if your so kind, will you please explain to me why this is able to switch indexes, it been driving me nuts trying to figure out if it has anything to do with my problem :p

if(ownerDraw < UI_FORCE_RANK_JETPACK)
{
findex = (ownerDraw - UI_FORCE_RANK)-1;
}
else
{//use a different index shift for the addition skills
findex = (ownerDraw - UI_FORCE_RANK_JETPACK)+(UI_FORCE_RANK_SABERTHROW-UI_FORCE_RANK);
}

any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: oh yeah I also added this to g_items.c to register the items for starting:

RegisterItem( BG_FindItemForWeapon( WP_REPEATER ) );
RegisterItem( BG_FindItemForWeapon( WP_DISRUPTOR ) );

JRHockney*
02-26-2007, 07:41 PM
Ok, I decided to release my newer stuff eventhough I didnt get those new guns on the menu :( Razor will have to help me with that.

http://files.filefront.com//;6817077;;/

I'll update at the top too.

Install:

Switch out your Enhanced0.0.9r dlls with my EnhancedJonchanges dlls. Then just add in the JRHockneys patch. You'll know its working if you can see
mindtrick on the skill menu or play with SFX(MB2) sabers. If it doesnt work, put a z on the front of that pk3 name. Or that doesnt work, post at the forums :p
let me know if you have any server stability problems or start up on solo game problems at the forums. If your solo game doesnt start up right away, try again with the same map.

Newest features:

- added mindtrick back on the skill menu!

- Changed how the collision stops work. Now you only stop if you do a normal block without parrying or on your swing
if you have less then 1/2 DP. This makes things alot freer and more movie realistic looking and helps the offensive end of the combat balance against the defensive end.

- fixed a problem with the Blue DP damage reduction for normal parry multiplier...I think.

- Fixed blue stances slowbounce so it is not so fricken fast! Its now alot easier to kick!

- made all tabbots invulnerable to force powers until they are low on DP or high on mishap so they arent so easy to kill.

- made kick more useful. Now you can kick over a person who has low DP unless they hold alt attack (yep, the old kick block button :p)
This definitely added alot to the combat dynamics in testing without making kick spammable.

Remember, if you want to get rid of those lousy animation stalls for the new anims, replace the ones in your enhanced stuff
pk3 with an older OJP version of the animations... or just use my last stuff folder.

Lastly, HELP ME RAZOR!!!!! Ensiform already took a look at the code changes I posted above and didn't see what was wrong. YOU ARE MY ONLY HOOOPPPPPPEEEE!! :P I MUST GET THOSE GUNS IN AND ITS DRIVING ME INSANE!!!

razorace
02-26-2007, 09:35 PM
Thank you for posting all that information. :) But, FYI in the future, you could just send me the modified files for inspection.

Anyway, of what you posted, the only problem is can easily see is with....

and some other less relevant stuff to the NPC.spawn code like this:
ent->client->skillLevel[SK_REPEATER] = FORCE_LEVEL_3;
ent->client->skillLevel[SK_DISRUPTOR] = FORCE_LEVEL_3;
This is a no-no since this would give a repeater and disruptor to every NPC and NPCs are only really supposed to have the weapon that they are assigned.

- Changed how the collision stops work. Now you only stop if you do a normal block without parrying or on your swing
if you have less then 1/2 DP. This makes things alot freer and more movie realistic looking and helps the offensive end of the combat balance against the defensive end.
What was your motive for doing this?

JRHockney*
02-26-2007, 11:31 PM
Well, I tried what you suggested and it didnt work :( However, i did reset the resolution to higher and low and behold, I noticed a few errors in the console!! ....and I have no idea what it means!!! :p It said something like:

ui/jamp/ingame_playerforce.menu/ couldn't parse menu item keyword "ownerdraw" line 1276

ui/jamp/ingame_playerforce.menu/ couldn't parse menu ikeyword "itemDef" line 1276

menu file not found: menu ui/menutest.txt, using default

any ideas?

What was your motive for doing this?

TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!...um,no but I had several actually. After talking to quite a few people, I noticed that not everyone liked the stops for every collision. One even thought tanqexe old video of 0.0.9h looked more movie realistic, which I didnt entirely agree but I saw what he was getting at. So just for grins, I watched all the movie saberfights all over again and noticed that the stops in 0.0.9r look more like old trilogy saber combat and there is alot more walking and charging in the newer trilogy combat (like anakin rushing obiwan and dooku).

So as a compromise, I made it like this, and I definitely noticed the difference in overall looks. Its a perfect balance between old and new, theres not too much of that old "on ice" feel since the stops still happen a good amount, and it really does seem to free things up a bit. Heres a vid to demonstrate:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB8iqyjjlxI . Notice how that old weaving around people thing that we were trying to get rid of is hardly existant becaue the stops happen just enough. It seems to help balance offense against defense (since defense was a little too powerful in 0.0.9r) and so far, everyone I've played it with seems to like it alot better.

Anyways, if you want I could send you just the files for added those weapons, or I could send you ALL the files I changed so you can clean up the code a bit. If you like all the changes, I won't be able to commit them myself since ensiforms crash code still isnt in there for previously stated reasons.

Anyways, once the repeater and disruptor are back in, I was planning on changing the files to make them the clone rifle and the modified JKA sniper rifle (which I'm not sure where to find it) and then experiment with them to balance them out in our gameplay. If you want to discuss the balancing or maybe even implement them yourself so its cleaner, let me know.

Also, I was considering trying to make it so that you can't used both forcepowers and guns or items until you reach a certain skill level and until then it would be an either or thing (maybe pistol 1 as a prereq). That way Hybrid classes would come about only through much experience and it would be more gunners vs jedis for the beginning. The way have it set up in my code, hybrid classes are still plenty defeatable, but harder. What do you think of that idea?

EDIT: oh one last thing. I have a video of that dreaded lightning mishap bug that I can send you a quick clip for. Id make a youtube vid, but I don't want to make new players we get from there nervous :p

Maxstate
02-28-2007, 05:55 AM
No collision stops for parries is pretty nice to play with actually, the saber system is at it's peak right now if you ask me.

But if you guys are anything like me (or I'm anything like you :p) you'll continue to tinker and tinker and tinker and keep making new things that are nothing like your starting product. (this is bad mmkay?)

Gunner combat is fine now in comparison to other mods, the saber system is epic, a lot of the bigger bugs have been fixed and a plethora of imbalances have also been dealt with. I think we're ready for the big 0.1.0 or R1 release, even though I don't completely agree with the way Force powers and skills work right now.

Don't get me wrong, I love the possibility of hybrid classes and surely am not against the ability for gunners to get Force powers to mimmick Force Sensitives like we have now. It's just the Quake-esque gameplay we face when we allow a certain build the mobility of jump 3 and jetpack, the defense of Dodge and Absorb 3 and the firepower of Lightning 3, flamer and rocket launcher. There's just something wrong with that, and if we are planning to introduce this mod to more people, that is the response you're going to get.

I originally introduced the fact that the JKA community had a lot of gunners, but I don't think this was anything new here. My concern, or the solution to it, however has been taken out of proportion severely, I think. I mean, is this, our current skills system the solution and compiled thoughts of our community and small group of contributors? Or is it a jury-rig solution to a big problem we don't have time to deal with?

It seems there are a lot of inconcistencies and contradictions concerning the skills system, and mainly it's gunner-Jedi hybrid part. For one, it was clear intention that gunners would never be even close to Jedi in matters of lethalness and score-racking ability. More importantly I think, where and when did the idea of giving gunners access to jedi abilities and skills come in, and why is it considered a "fix" to the hybrid system imbalances?

"Oh this again.." , "We already talked about this didn't we?".
Yes we did, but did we solve the problem in a benefitial way or did we just create a quick compromise for the matter, only really benefitial to the more FPS-oriented, score-racking players out there?

"What are you talking about, Jedi can counter everything gunners use, including Force powers."
Haha, yes they can. When Saturn is in line with Earth's moon and the stars group up together thusly that they appear to be making a stratocaster model guitar in the sky.

All jokes aside, yes, they can counter gunners. With A LOT of trouble, though.
There are a lot of ingame combinations of skills that will leave most of a Jedi's abilities look like child's play and only really leave the tactic of "rush forward slashing your saber mindlessly".

I think though it's not the case if Jedi can counter gunners that is important, but if gunners can counter Jedi that is even more important.
Since remember what we said? Gunners should not be equal to Jedi qua skill?
Yeah, right.

I hope it won't be my duty to inform all of you that there are certain troubling imbalances considering Force Sensitive gunner versus Jedi combat. An example:

Step 1: Jedi runs at gunner.
Step 2: Gunner jumps up and over Jedi with Force Jump.
Step 3: Gunner shoots rocket launcher at the head of Jedi, which hits the jedi because auto Push does not work out of the Jedi's sight or over the Jedi's head.

Would you consider that imbalanced? No? So you want to say that it's a clearly good tactic that Jedi can use as well? Oh? How? What are Jedi supposed to do to a gunner, seriously?

You come close you get flamed, you jump up and get lightninged or rocketed, you stand still and you get rocketed, you run away you get lightninged..

It seems to me that OJP is played on 2 different levels when comparing a Jedi to a Hybrid:

Firstly, the Jedi is playing the equivalent of a tactical shooter. Slowly, thoughtfully you need to make your way on the battlefield and dispatch enemies as quickly but as safely as possible, not to lose your own head.

The Hybrid however does not play a tactical shooter, the hybrid plays an Unreal Tournament or Quake 3-esque game where bunny hopping, Jumping and speed/height in general is important. A game where you blindly rush into the battlefield because you know that none of your opponent's weaponry can keep up with you as long as you keep holding your left mouse button while tapping the spacebar furiously.

No matter how much I try I just can not accept the fact that the system turned out this way, I can't go around the blatant imbalances and quick fixes no more than I can go around the fact that "Jedi" has been demoted to a rudimentary name for players that don't want to adapt to the new jerk-muscle Unreal Tournament clone and still want to play a good game, where intelligence, reflexes and wits ruled.

It doesn't come as a surprise to anyone that these two levels are different, very different and very unlike each other. They clash constantly ingame.
It won't hopefully come as a surprise to anyone that the latter style of gameplay will beat the former time after time, simply because the former (being the slow, tactical type) does not belong in the game anymore. It's like trying to command a swat team on CTF_Face, like trying to tiptoe your way around someone with a Link gun.

No more is the result of a game judged by the player skill of someone but more by the amount of rockets they can fire per second while consecutively steering their jetpack.

Any attempts made to console Jedi players and return their ingame dignity (ha-ha) have been futile, but this is something you can only blame lack of time on.

Boosting the E-11 and bowcaster damage, giving the guns buyable upgrades, boosting detpack and thermal usefulness and damage, nerfing the rocket launcher with limited ammo instead of a cooldown, making the flamer blockable or destroyable, making the jetpack a burst-action device, denying the use of Force lightning 3 without proper training.

Those are examples of balanced changes, they may take more time or less time depending on the subject, but none of them were even thought about.

Flamer drains more Jet fuel, Bowcaster shoots 4 shots per second, higher levels of weapons give you more ammo, bunnyhopping costs 2 fp per hop, gunners get force powers to make up for weaknesses.

These are examples of jury-rigged fixes that COULD've worked if not for the fact that they are as much fixes as giving the Hindenburg titanium plating would be fixes..

--

In short, new players:

If you are expecting to have a new and refreshed gunning or hybrid experience from OJP, you are in the wrong place. I recommend you play either Quake 3, Savage or unreal tournament for the first, for the second you should try playing the Jedi Academy or Jedi Outcast singleplayer campaign with cheats on and /give all binded.
Because that's what being a gunner or hybrid feels like in OJP, you can buy ALL the guns and gadgets with enough points, spawn, and then go to your profile screen and unbuy your guns and gadgets and buy all the Force powers. Since in OJP Force powers update dynamically, but guns and gadgets don't, this means you can have both all the gadgets and guns AND all the Force powers at your very first spawn! Have fun!

If you are a seasoned gunner looking to kill some easy jedi prey, OJP however IS for you and you should certainly try it just for the sheer pleaure.

Jedi players looking for a good duel, or wanting to relive certain parts of the single player campaign, YOU are at the right place.

*sigh* I'm sorry for this rant, but there's no shaking the feeling that most of our troubles could be solved if we had this/that/then/with/that way.

Bottom line is this:
OJP IS a very good mod, it's refreshing in many many aspects, the dueling is excellent and very movielike and fun to boot. The gunnr combat however is nothing new from the original JKA save for having access to less weapons. Also, hybrids are not recommended for Jedi with weak stomachs.

razorace
02-28-2007, 05:12 PM
EDIT: oh one last thing. I have a video of that dreaded lightning mishap bug that I can send you a quick clip for. Id make a youtube vid, but I don't want to make new players we get from there nervous :p
What was that bug again? If you're worried about posting it, post it under a different name than OJP. :)

razorace
02-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Here's some balancing ideas:

1. Can't block force powers while using rocket launcher or flame thrower.

2. Can't shoot lightning in mid-air.

3. Firing a rocket in mid-air blows the player backwards.

Maxstate
02-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Here's some balancing ideas:

1. Can't block force powers while using rocket launcher or flame thrower.

2. Can't shoot lightning in mid-air.

3. Firing a rocket in mid-air blows the player backwards.

With a touch of E-11/Bowcaster boost, plox!

razorace
03-01-2007, 06:44 PM
plox? wha?

Well, if you got time, I'd appreciate it if those ideas where posted to the bug tracker.

Maxstate
03-01-2007, 06:47 PM
plox? wha?

Well, if you got time, I'd appreciate it if those ideas where posted to the bug tracker.
Plox = please in internets :p

If you mean the things outlined in that rant post, I don't think I want too. Wasn't in an all too fine emotional state when I wrote it and was on the verge of deleting it, but will leave it to remind myself of shennanigans in the future.

I will however keep aiming for a standardised weapon (e-11 or Bowcaster) for gunners that they can use primarily and which they can buy upgrades for, since I feel that the rocket launcher and the flamer are still too.. useful to give up.

JackBaldy
03-03-2007, 01:06 AM
Here's the latest files from Jon's changes but in a more compact and more easy to install form. Just copy and paste the GameData folder and everything should be installed. Make sure to have the ojpenhanced folder within GameData deleted when you do this though.

http://files.filefront.com//;6848412;;/

UDM
03-03-2007, 03:06 AM
I have a random thought. What about having it such that as long as I have any Merc points, the points requisites for certain exploitable Jedi skills will double? If Absorb normally requires 8 points, then putting any skills in Merc eg. Flamethrower will cause it to cost 16 points

However, to encourage purists to participate too, maybe we could have incentives for them, like having any additional skill points transferred to dodge points. Maybe every additional skill point adds 1% of existing dodge points. Thus, if my DP is 100 and I have 40SP, in total I will have 100 + (100*0.4) = 140DP. Actually, I think this system was used in place already, wasn't it?

As for the issue of gunners being able to exploit the system ie. stuff all points into gunnery, spawn, remove points, add points wherever they like, voila! Guns + lots more force powers! Sorry got no solution :P

mark2000
03-03-2007, 04:24 AM
I changed from the 0.0.9r to this one and noticed that whenever I kick an opponent when he isn't in a slow bounce, heavy bounce, or a stun, my leg just goes through him and i don't get to see any reaction whatsoever from my opponent.

Aren't they suppose to do a sort of "backflip" to recover from the kick?

There are also a few times when this also happens even though the opponent is in a slow bounce.

I also have a question about this one:
Aqua: 14 DP damage and it does a little mishap damage for hitting someone and not getting parried. Based on Count dookus aggressive Makashi and overwhelming opponents with speed and percision.

does this mean that if I use Makashi and keep hitting my opponent without getting parried, both of our mishap meters will fill up instead of just mine?

And just to clarify something. Aside from Juyo, which seems to have an FP regen that's on par with Makashi/Soresu, do the styles have differences in FP regen speed with Djem So having the slowest and Soresu having the Fastest?


Anyways. Great job on upgrading the Saber Styles. Now they actually differ more from each other than before.:)

JackBaldy
03-03-2007, 05:56 AM
The kick seems to be harder to land with the base animation, takes some getting used to but the kicking works more or less the same in terms of causing mishaps. With a change when you have low DP that causes knockdown.

Maxstate
03-03-2007, 09:00 AM
I changed from the 0.0.9r to this one and noticed that whenever I kick an opponent when he isn't in a slow bounce, heavy bounce, or a stun, my leg just goes through him and i don't get to see any reaction whatsoever from my opponent.

Aren't they suppose to do a sort of "backflip" to recover from the kick?

There are also a few times when this also happens even though the opponent is in a slow bounce.

I also have a question about this one:


does this mean that if I use Makashi and keep hitting my opponent without getting parried, both of our mishap meters will fill up instead of just mine?

And just to clarify something. Aside from Juyo, which seems to have an FP regen that's on par with Makashi/Soresu, do the styles have differences in FP regen speed with Djem So having the slowest and Soresu having the Fastest?


Anyways. Great job on upgrading the Saber Styles. Now they actually differ more from each other than before.:)

Juyo has the fastest FP regen of all the styles to permit both more "firepower" and more fancy moves in combat. They're not changed for the rest of them as far as I know.

mark2000
03-03-2007, 10:44 AM
The kick seems to be harder to land with the base animation, takes some getting used to but the kicking works more or less the same in terms of causing mishaps. With a change when you have low DP that causes knockdown.
I tried kicking a bot a few times after making successful parries. My kick still went through him and he still didn't show any reaction to it but I kept damaging his shield lol.
Juyo has the fastest FP regen of all the styles to permit both more "firepower" and more fancy moves in combat. They're not changed for the rest of them as far as I know.

16 DP damage, fastest FP regen, and quite fast attack animations. Doesn't that make it abit too overpowered?

Maxstate
03-03-2007, 11:57 AM
I tried kicking a bot a few times after making successful parries. My kick still went through him and he still didn't show any reaction to it but I kept damaging his shield lol.


16 DP damage, fastest FP regen, and quite fast attack animations. Doesn't that make it abit too overpowered?
In my latest set all the animations have been balanced qua speed.

And compared to the rest, it is pretty balanced. FP doesn't regenerate while you hold your mouse button, so to fully benefit from Juyo's perks you'll need to adapt to a new fighting system.

JackBaldy
03-03-2007, 12:14 PM
I've been playing a bit with Hock's latest code changes and Juyo with base animations and those perks does not seem overpowering. o.o

*edit* The base kick seems to be very difficult to hit someone who is moving, I mostly land it on moving opponents when they are moving towards me. Very different from the previous kick we had, but I don't mind it being more difficult to use.

mark2000
03-03-2007, 09:02 PM
oh well. If it doesn't seem overpowered to you guys then I guess it's alright.

I don't mind if the kicks are more difficult to land now. the only thing annoying is that the kick could still miss even though my foot obviously went through my opponent already and even if it DID hit, I still won't see any reaction coming from my opponent.

Might be abit off-topic if I mention it here but even in the Original Enhanced R code, I still couldn't see the backflip when I kick my opponent. It only pushes back the opponent and also deals damage to his shield/health.

JRHockney*
03-03-2007, 09:07 PM
Here's the latest files from Jon's changes but in a more compact and more easy to install form. Just copy and paste the GameData folder and everything should be installed. Make sure to have the ojpenhanced folder within GameData deleted when you do this though.

http://files.filefront.com//;6848412;;/

Thanks Jack. Yeah I think my winrar zip folders are somehow corrupted, so this will be the offical link to my new code. I'll place it at the top fot the thread. These should also run fine on other servers since they ran fine on Jacks server.

does this mean that if I use Makashi and keep hitting my opponent without getting parried, both of our mishap meters will fill up instead of just mine?

No I changed it so that you actually earn back like 1 or 2 mishap points if you hit without getting parried. This was to make it so that its harder to tell exactly where your opponents mishap bar is since it was too easy before, so yeah it just does mishap damage on your opponent.

I have a random thought. What about having it such that as long as I have any Merc points, the points requisites for certain exploitable Jedi skills will double? If Absorb normally requires 8 points, then putting any skills in Merc eg. Flamethrower will cause it to cost 16 points

We need new point bubble graphics for anything higher than 8. If you want to make them, we might consider more experimentation for these like this. I think they have to be the same overall size as the otherones though, but I'm not sure.

However, to encourage purists to participate too, maybe we could have incentives for them, like having any additional skill points transferred to dodge points. Maybe every additional skill point adds 1% of existing dodge points. Thus, if my DP is 100 and I have 40SP, in total I will have 100 + (100*0.4) = 140DP. Actually, I think this system was used in place already, wasn't it?

Thats not too bad of an idea. And no, if you don't use your points on something, you don't get more DP atm.

mark2000
03-04-2007, 12:56 AM
No I changed it so that you actually earn back like 1 or 2 mishap points if you hit without getting parried. This was to make it so that its harder to tell exactly where your opponents mishap bar is since it was too easy before, so yeah it just does mishap damage on your opponent.


So what you're saying is that if I keep hitting my opponent without getting parried, my Mishap Meter will decrease instead of increase? If that's what you're saying, then i'm not sure if it works. I tested using Makashi on some bots earlier and found a way so that they'll be forced to block my continuous attacks and they'll only parry probably only 1/8 of the attacks that I do. I probably dealt maybe 10 consecutive normal slashes to a bot without getting parried and during those 10 slashes, I noticed my mishap meter kept increasing.

EDIT:

Never mind. Looks like it works alright now. There was probably just something wrong in what I was doing last time.

Step 1: Observe whether or not if your opponent is either in a slow bounce, heavy bounce, a stun, has his back to you, or you think he might be higher on his mishap bar. These are the only situations where kicking will knock your opponent down or make them stumble.

I tried landing a few kicks to a bot everytime he was in a slow bounce. It worked!.....although he still kept absorbing the kick with the backflip (I finally got to see the backflip woot!!). I don't get it. I thought that i the opponent is in a Slow Bounce, a kick is suppose make him fall down or stumble.

You also have to be VERY CLOSE to the opponent to make it work and when I mean "very close", I mean POINTBLANK range (so close that you can actually kiss your opponent mouth to mouth)! Not that it's bad or anything. It's probably a good way to keep the kick from being spammable. I'm just saying that it's pretty......wierd.:sweat:

OFFTOPIC:

What were you talking about when you mentioned something about Soresu's "hacksaw" ability?

JRHockney*
03-04-2007, 03:34 AM
I tried landing a few kicks to a bot everytime he was in a slow bounce. It worked!.....although he still kept absorbing the kick with the backflip (I finally got to see the backflip woot!!). I don't get it. I thought that i the opponent is in a Slow Bounce, a kick is suppose make him fall down or stumble.

The kick will not knock him over unless his mishap bar is high enough or (in my code) his DP bar is at critical if they are not hold alt attack. I think it has to be a little over 1/2. You'll know if he's there if you attack parry him and he does a heavybounce (the swing bounce in slowmotion) instead of the normal slowbounce. When that happens you can kick them over unless they are holding alt attack.

I'm not sure why kick is so hard to connect with, its really not suppose to be. I don't have too many problems with it, but I still have a hard tie connecting at times.

mark2000
03-04-2007, 07:03 AM
Maybe just increase how much distance the kick can hit the opponent?

BTW. Does anyone find it abit hard to parry using the Saber Staff?

I'm not sure about the dual sabers though since I haven't tested it yet.

Maxstate
03-04-2007, 08:55 AM
Maybe just increase how much distance the kick can hit the opponent?

BTW. Does anyone find it abit hard to parry using the Saber Staff?

I'm not sure about the dual sabers though since I haven't tested it yet.

I altered some speeds for staves and duals in those new animation alterations I made and they're actually fun to use now, both of them. Although I'm thinking of doing something completely different soon so I'm not releasing anything yet.

mark2000
03-04-2007, 11:19 AM
If it's not too much to ask, I suggest making the animations alot less fancy than the current ones. :)

Please and thank you

Maxstate
03-04-2007, 11:20 AM
I used the normal spins for all the styles except for Juyo/Makashi, so they look a lot less fancy but much more... "robust". You'll see :)

madcatmach2
03-04-2007, 01:13 PM
aw but i love fancy its so much fun to watch ;)

Maxstate
03-04-2007, 01:33 PM
aw but i love fancy its so much fun to watch ;)
I've made a compromise, didn't remove everything fancy, just the stuff that looks bad when you get hit :p

mark2000
03-05-2007, 08:01 AM
well, when I compared my use of the new and old animations of Makashi, I actually prefered the old one (the stance where you point your saber infront of you). It's more simple yet graceful and agile at the same time. Although the new animation of Makashi reminded me alot of Count Dooku, it's really more suited for swordplay rather than actual fighting IMO since half of the swing animations don't even intend to hit your opponent.

I never really got the hang of the new Juyo anims since it had so much animation pauses that I just couldn't observe its performance properly.

And about the recent saber staff animations. I still think they're too fancy. Darth Maul doesn't even do half of those twirling most of the time. When you observe Maul fight Qui Gon and Obiwan, you'll notice that the two jedis do more than half of the fancy swordplay and not Maul. You'll barely see him do anything fancy except for the occasional twirl or two a few times. From what i've observed from watching that duel alot, Maul was mostly blocking and parrying their attacks instead of doing Katas. I think the same could be said about the fight between Anakin and Dooku when Anakin had two sabers in hand but that scene happened too briefly to make a proper observation of Anakin's technique.

Maxstate
03-05-2007, 09:12 AM
Excuse me, but I think this mod is still called the "Open Jedi Project", and not "Movie Battles" :ears1:

mark2000
03-05-2007, 09:35 AM
nah. They're just suggestions on the animations. that's all. not that they're so terribly important or anything like that anyway.

But you guys said it yourselves that your saber system aims for movie realism so I was just sharing my ideas.

:)

Maxstate
03-05-2007, 11:33 AM
nah. They're just suggestions on the animations. that's all. not that they're so terribly important or anything like that anyway.

But you guys said it yourselves that your saber system aims for movie realism so I was just sharing my ideas.

:)
The system does indeed.

It's okay, I'm just not willing to turn OJP into something it's not. If you want pure straight hXc movie realism there's always www.moviebattles.com . :king1:

JRHockney*
03-05-2007, 07:33 PM
The system does indeed.

It's okay, I'm just not willing to turn OJP into something it's not. If you want pure straight hXc movie realism there's always www.moviebattles.com . :king1:

Hey now, don't go chasing him to moviebattles. They have enough players already. Down with cooperate modS!!!! LOL. :p Just kidding MB

mark2000
03-07-2007, 09:04 AM
lol. It's not like I'll only prefer one mod over the other. I look forward to all mods that interest me, even Knights Of The Force (been looking forward to a decent Movie Story-based Star Wars game experience for quite some time know. :D ).

madcatmach2
03-07-2007, 07:23 PM
lol. It's not like I'll only prefer one mod over the other. I look forward to all mods that interest me, even Knights Of The Force (been looking forward to a decent Movie Story-based Star Wars game experience for quite some time know. :D ). not happening its a complete scam that and the demo gives you viruses i feel bad for all the poor fools who achully gave money to that guy

razorace
03-07-2007, 07:28 PM
There were viruses in the demo?!

Maxstate
03-07-2007, 07:28 PM
There were viruses in the demo?!
Yeah I heard about people picking up massive trojans from it too.

madcatmach2
03-07-2007, 09:53 PM
ya it was bad this thing even tried to access major windows files and change its base code

mark2000
03-08-2007, 04:33 AM
oh. well that's too bad.

Mantis01
03-10-2007, 01:58 AM
JRHockney,
Good work your customize for OJP :)
I want your mods source to build Linux dedicated server (jampgamei386.so).

And why do not merge your development to OJP SVN ? :D

JRHockney*
03-10-2007, 02:42 PM
JRHockney,
Good work your customize for OJP :)
I want your mods source to build Linux dedicated server (jampgamei386.so).

And why do not merge your development to OJP SVN ? :D

I'm glad you like it :) I can send you the files I changed if you want. Just send me your email or something. It will be nice to see another server around here eventually too.

The reason I didnt commit my changes to the repository is that since Razor stilll technically leads the mod, the changes have to go through him and be reviewed by him code wise to make sure its good enough code (since I'm not a good coder by anymeans :p ). Even if I did get approval, I still couldn't commit it because I had to remove ensiform's crash.c crash protection/errorprint code and all its references just to get it to compile in the first place because an old tutorial on compiling jka code told me to get rid of my windows header files....its a long story, but I wasn't a good enough coder to find a way to keep it in. If you can find a way to get it back in in my code let me know if I send it to you. I think there is already alot of linux references in the code just ot let you know.

Mantis01
03-10-2007, 05:06 PM
I'm glad you like it :) I can send you the files I changed if you want. Just send me your email or something. It will be nice to see another server around here eventually too.

The reason I didnt commit my changes to the repository is that since Razor stilll technically leads the mod, the changes have to go through him and be reviewed by him code wise to make sure its good enough code (since I'm not a good coder by anymeans :p ). Even if I did get approval, I still couldn't commit it because I had to remove ensiform's crash.c crash protection/errorprint code and all its references just to get it to compile in the first place because an old tutorial on compiling jka code told me to get rid of my windows header files....its a long story, but I wasn't a good enough coder to find a way to keep it in. If you can find a way to get it back in in my code let me know if I send it to you. I think there is already alot of linux references in the code just ot let you know.

Thanks Hockney :)
I sent private message to you.

I understood the reason. :)
Stability and balancing is important in this mod.
But you are one of the promising developers, I think.
I can't wait OJP developing restarted.
The thing I can do is just managing server, and reporting bug.

ensiform
03-10-2007, 09:55 PM
Be sure to use trac to report them bugs (maybe not until hock's code goes on svn though) or tag it like HOCKNEY CODE: etc...

Mantis01
03-10-2007, 11:49 PM
Be sure to use trac to report them bugs (maybe not until hock's code goes on svn though) or tag it like HOCKNEY CODE: etc...

Good idea, I do it with tag.

Mantis01
03-15-2007, 07:45 AM
I'm glad you like it :) I can send you the files I changed if you want. Just send me your email or something. It will be nice to see another server around here eventually too.

Thanks for your mail with source. :)
I compilied it successfully, but server is crashed very often without crash log.:(
The reason is that there is a problem in the handling of the memory perhaps.
Because similarly, I saw server crashing original environment in 0.0.9r-rev334(latest) with crash log.
I reported trac ticket to
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/218

And your customize might have deleted the debug message, so output has no crash log.

razorace
03-15-2007, 05:20 PM
When is it crashing? From the looks of the error log, it looks like it's crashing during game shutdown.

JRHockney*
03-15-2007, 07:25 PM
Thanks for your mail with source. :)
I compilied it successfully, but server is crashed very often without crash log.:(
The reason is that there is a problem in the handling of the memory perhaps.
Because similarly, I saw server crashing original environment in 0.0.9r-rev334(latest) with crash log.
I reported trac ticket to
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/218

And your customize might have deleted the debug message, so output has no crash log.

I didn't delete anything in those files I sent you. I commented out all the references to the crash.c file so look around for them. The only things I ignorantly deleted originally were the window header files and I didnt send you any of those. Just search "JRHockney" to find them if their in there. If you get it compiled with the crash.c code working, can you post a link for it? I and probably several other people would like to play on a more stable version of my own code :p

Mantis01
03-16-2007, 12:34 AM
When is it crashing? From the looks of the error log, it looks like it's crashing during game shutdown.

It was crashing during game shutdown.
The server is set to rortate next map.
I noticed that this crash bug looks like trac ticket #198 (but not vote to restart).
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/198

mark2000
03-18-2007, 01:36 PM
ok...uh....I can't seem to use the flamethrower...I keep pressing the "use" button but no flame ever comes out. Help?

I'm not sure if it's just me or it's because of the code changes so I posted them here.


EDIT:

Never mind. It was my fault afterall. Kinda jumbled up my bindings without me noticing lol.

Mantis01
03-18-2007, 02:03 PM
Razor, happy new revision !!
I can build and try rev 335.
But crashed.


****Spawning Bot ^5Mad^5Lando^7*****
broadcast: print "^5Mad^5Lando^7 @@@PLENTER\n"
ClientBegin: 3
Item: 0 item_shield_sm_instant
Hitch warning: 749 msec frame time
Kill: 3 0 3: ^5Mad^5Lando killed ^4Lasting^3Virus by MOD_SABER
Kill: 0 1 3: ^4Lasting^3Virus killed ^1First^6Jack by MOD_SABER
Kill: 0 2 3: ^4Lasting^3Virus killed ^2Bad^6Falcon by MOD_SABER
Kill: 0 3 3: ^4Lasting^3Virus killed ^5Mad^5Lando by MOD_SABER
*******************
ERROR: SV_SvEntityForGentity: bad gEnt
ShutdownGame:
------------------------------------------------------------
DROPPED

Any idea?

ensiform
03-18-2007, 02:17 PM
Well, I can think of many places where that comes from...

SV_AdjustAreaPortalState
SV_AddEntitiesVisibleFromPoint
SV_BuildClientSnapshot
SV_UnlinkEntity
SV_LinkEntity

Sounds like there is a bad entity being sent to the server engine...
Or somehow a player's clientnum is invalid in SV_BuildClientSnapshot...

Mantis01
03-19-2007, 04:55 AM
I didn't delete anything in those files I sent you. I commented out all the references to the crash.c file so look around for them. The only things I ignorantly deleted originally were the window header files and I didnt send you any of those. Just search "JRHockney" to find them if their in there. If you get it compiled with the crash.c code working, can you post a link for it? I and probably several other people would like to play on a more stable version of my own code :p

Okay, Hockney.
I changed your disabled debug code to enabled in your source.
Those comment out are in g_local.h, g_main.c. (It should not disable, I think :))
And I could see crash log...

-8<------- Crash Information ------->8-
Please forward to the OJP team.
---------------------------------------
Version: OJP Enhanced v0.0.9JRHockney's code Linux
Build Date: Mar 19 2007Build Time: 11:02:02Map: mp/ffa1
Signal: Segmentation fault (11)
Siginfo: 0xbfffdb30
Code: 1
Faulting Memory Ref/Instruction: 0x44e2f527


Maybe it is same error with original rev334 (My ticket #218).
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/218

ensiform
03-19-2007, 12:28 PM
What about the backtrace, that is what we care about...

Also: Wrap the crash info here in code tags so it is not all going everywhere.

Do the same at the trac to so that it formats correctly, you will have to look at wikiformat for the correct tags though.

mark2000
03-21-2007, 09:51 AM
I may have just missed this somewhere but may I ask what are the effects of the Dual and Staff saber styles? Their DP damage and their unique effects?

JRHockney*
03-21-2007, 09:17 PM
I may have just missed this somewhere but may I ask what are the effects of the Dual and Staff saber styles? Their DP damage and their unique effects?

Staff has no extra back hit damage and duel has no extra FP cost for power swinging. Their DP damages are lower than most saber styles, but their harder to see in there swings as to where to parry them. Duel occasionally seems to double hit at certain angles as well if I remember right.

Okay, Hockney.
I changed your disabled debug code to enabled in your source.
Those comment out are in g_local.h, g_main.c. (It should not disable, I think )

Thanks for working on that, mantis. Let us know if you get a fully functional version with the crash.c code working in it.

mark2000
03-22-2007, 11:30 AM
since Staff and Dual have the least amount of DP damage than the Single Styles and their swinging distance is also shorter, does that mean that they're more of a defensive style?

razorace
03-22-2007, 02:19 PM
It's difficult to say since the animations for the styles are configured for a video game vs realism.

mark2000
03-26-2007, 06:18 AM
Blue: 12 DP damage and a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times.

What does "a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times." mean?

What's 'Parry Damage'?

Maxstate
03-26-2007, 07:05 AM
What does "a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times." mean?

What's 'Parry Damage'?
If you parry 3 times in a row, the damage you get will be lowered by 25%
Parry damage is the damage you receive when you parry an attack (which is lower than a regular block).

mark2000
03-26-2007, 01:05 PM
oh....so that's what it is.....thanks.

BTW. How about setting the Mishap damage of Makashi attacks to atleast half of the Mishap damage you get when you are parried?

This isn't really much of a suggestion but I just thought you guys should know anyway:

IMO, the blade sticks out too far when using Makashi's stance so it's easy to get hit even you're at a far distance from your opponent. The stance also makes it abit awkward to properly deliver parries when compared to other styles. I've also noticed that when using Soresu's stance, the increase in accuracy of parry-blocks is quite noticeable. Since both Soresu and Makashi are styles that are very dependent on good Parry-blocking, I suggest that the stance of Makashi should be changed to something closely based on Soresu's stance.

It should probably be something like this since Makashi is based on fencing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/mark2000/656px-Fencing_saber_valid_surfaces.jpg

razorace
03-26-2007, 02:45 PM
BTW. How about setting the Mishap damage of Makashi attacks to atleast half of the Mishap damage you get when you are parried?
Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.

The parrying system works the same for all stances. The only difference is probably going to be where your saber is more likely to collide with the attacker's saber if you're both swinging your sabers.

mark2000
03-26-2007, 03:51 PM
Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.

I had a few runs with Count Dooku (AKA Makashi Freak) and see its effect by letting myself get hit a few times. I guess an increase by another point should be adequate enough for the style to have abit more noticeable effect.

The parrying system works the same for all stances. The only difference is probably going to be where your saber is more likely to collide with the attacker's saber if you're both swinging your sabers.
Actually, I'm more afraid of getting hit constantly when I'm NOT swinging my saber while using Makashi.

Anyway, I'll settle with using a cool technique(or exploit if wanna call it that) I found for the time being. It increases your probability of a succesful parry from roughly 25% to 75%. I mostly play against TAB bots though so I don't know if this'll work with humans as well and since TAB bots are such AF whores, I also don't know if this gimmick will also work with normal swings.

I've also found the joys of using sentry droids LOL. Too bad about the Blaster Deflect Crash Bug though.

BTW. How come TAB bots never choose anything else other than sabers and melee?

I'm also curious. Were the Anakin, Obiwan, and Dooku models included with the OJP mod? I'm just wondering since Obiwan loves using Soresu, Anakin with Djem So, and Dooku with Makashi.

UDM
03-26-2007, 04:06 PM
To answer your last question: nope :)

JRHockney*
03-26-2007, 09:14 PM
Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.
.

Actually if its based on my code, its 2 MP. 1 wasnt enough to make any difference since parrying reduces it by 3. I thought about making it do 3 as well, but that would mean a parry for every hit woul dbe needed on top of what ever you got parried for.

And I still miss my faster fp gain for Juyo :( it added strategy (and transparency) to FP control and I had alot of fun using a cart wheel and Ariel based yoda aturu style with it... even though it usually got me killed LOL

Heck, it would be nice just to get these different characteristics on the skill menu to be bought for different styles. It might be another fun exercise for the talents of DarthDie.

mark2000
03-26-2007, 11:18 PM
um.....actually, even with 2 MP, hacking away at your opponent will most probably kill him first before you could ever manage to disarm him and that's from a style with only 2 DP damage more than soresu.

And I still miss my faster fp gain for Juyo it added strategy (and transparency) to FP control and I had alot of fun using a cart wheel and Ariel based yoda aturu style with it... even though it usually got me killed LOL

Juyo doesn't have fast FP gain anymore? LOL no wonder I couldn't find any difference in the FP regen. Why'd you remove it?

Heck, it would be nice just to get these different characteristics on the skill menu to be bought for different styles. It might be another fun exercise for the talents of DarthDie.


hehe. Better yet, let's think KOTORII LOL. buuuut...I guess that thing's too RPGish to be applicable to JKA.

Right now, I'm just dying to see that Blaster Deflect Crash bug fixed.

razorace
03-26-2007, 11:51 PM
Juyo doesn't have fast FP gain anymore? LOL no wonder I couldn't find any difference in the FP regen. Why'd you remove it?
I don't think it's realistic. A particular style isn't going to make you recover from fatigue any faster than normal. If you're trying to simulate a less fatiguing style, it should be with reductions to the FP cost of the moves instead. IMO.

JRHockney*
03-27-2007, 03:23 AM
Right now, I'm just dying to see that Blaster Deflect Crash bug fixed.

Its fixed in the new beta as far as I can tell. I havent had any problems. The new beta as all my changes except for: The DP drain for running gunners (yes the most loved one :( ), Juyo fp regen, and the 75% DP requirement for force power (to help non absorb gunners). There are probably a few more things, and bug fixes but thats all I can remember from my code.

Maxstate
03-27-2007, 06:28 AM
Its fixed in the new beta as far as I can tell. I havent had any problems. The new beta as all my changes except for: The DP drain for running gunners (yes the most loved one :( ), Juyo fp regen, and the 75% DP requirement for force power (to help non absorb gunners). There are probably a few more things, and bug fixes but thats all I can remember from my code.
I was thinking about giving Juyo a perk that is more akin to it's volatile and random nature, more FP regen sounds and feels more like a Djem-So thing, I think.

Maybe give Juyo a 20% chance to do double MISHAP* damage if (thus) and (thus) perequisites are met?

Edit: cough, ahem

razorace
03-27-2007, 02:45 PM
mmm, but would feel right to the defender? We already have a situation where "lightning" Mishap increases frustrate people.

Maxstate
03-27-2007, 02:47 PM
mmm, but would feel right to the defender? We already have a situation where "lightning" Mishap increases frustrate people.
It wouldn't be easy to do ofcourse.. meh, we'll see.

Tanqexe
03-27-2007, 03:31 PM
Jon and I were fighting a lot yesterday and we kept on running out of FP the first run around before we gambled on whether the other person was out of FP the second time around. He suggested that a way to solve this problem may be to give back 2 FP or so for a successful parry; this would simulate someone recovering their strength by being on passive defense instead of swinging and using up one's strength. That way duels between people with high DP won't be as frustrating.

About saber style perks...

I like Soresu, Shii-cho and Makashi as they are now, although I agree that increasing the MP damage on Makashi would make it stand out more. As it is, using Makashi can really drain your FP, which is not so good for a style only slightly stronger than Soresu. To make it shine that MP damage needs to be more apparent.

Djem-So's perk of draining DP should be given over to Juyo. Djem-So already deals the highest DP damage of 17, and giving it an extra 10% would mean that an attack fake-spamming duelist can really give out some hurting. Draining DP seems more of a characteristic of the unpredictable Juyo style anyway.

Because Djem-So is more of a brute strength style, it should be pretty tiring to defend against. To simulate this, the perk for Djem-So should be to cause minor FP damage via unparried swing or successful attack fake. Now if parrying helps you regain some FP, then that would be the strategy to counter against this perk.

Maxstate
03-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Sounds okay I guess, but I don't necessarily agree on the new Djem-So/Juyo perks. Juyo should have something very passive and random that creeps up on you whenever you lose your concentration for just a split second, Djem-So should be sheer strength and endurance made manifest. As I said, there's tiem for that, we'll see.

2 things that I want to bring into this conversation:
-Limiting people to certain styles
o: Because it's more realistic and fun if people can choose their own flavour, and only their own flavour.

-Making new graphic icons for the different styles and noting their pros and cons a la KOTOR2
o: Immersive, symbolic pride of your style, noob friendly

Opinions plox

razorace
03-27-2007, 04:45 PM
I'd like to have the styles be individually selectable but it's going to be a bit technical to impliment. Especially if we want to count the dual/staff sabers as a different styles to purchase.

Make a bug ticket for this issue if it doesn't exist yet.

mark2000
03-28-2007, 12:14 AM
As it is, using Makashi can really drain your FP, which is not so good for a style only slightly stronger than Soresu.
i dunno about that since I've never once lost alot of FP when using Makashi.

Djem-So's perk of draining DP should be given over to Juyo. Djem-So already deals the highest DP damage of 17, and giving it an extra 10% would mean that an attack fake-spamming duelist can really give out some hurting. Draining DP seems more of a characteristic of the unpredictable Juyo style anyway.
Let's see:
Djem So = Strength
Juyo = Aggressiveness

If Juyo is any similar to Vaapad then I would have to agree on moving the +10% DP damage to it.

Also, in the EPIII novel, Dooku lost stamina while defending against Anakin's Djem So attacks so I have to agree on replacing Djem So's effect to FP dramage from an unparried Attack Fake.

-Limiting people to certain styles
o: Because it's more realistic and fun if people can choose their own flavour, and only their own flavour.
Make the limit into 2 styles since most Jedi are fluent at 2-3 styles. Make Shii Cho the default stance that all Jedi should have (being the most basic and all) and make the other two stances to be the once for the player to choose.

and to make the suggestion more in-depth:
Saber Offense Lv.1 = Player can use 1 style and that would only be Shii Cho (default Style)
Saber Offense Lv.2 = Player can use 2 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 2nd one.
Saber Offense Lv.3 = Player can use 3 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 3rd one.

To sum it all up, the player will be able to use Shii Cho at Lv1 then 2 more styles at Lv2 and Lv3 which he/she would be able to choose when he/she reaches Lv2 and Lv3.

And to make it MORE in-depth: (just something to spice things up)

Since there are Jedi who are 'Masters' of certain styles, this is my suggestion. When player reaches Lv3, he/she can choose to upgrade either Shii Cho or his/her Lv2 style. It's not gonna be something big. Just simple upgrades like:

+1 DP damage
+1 DP Defense (attacker gets -1 DP damage)(also works with normal blocks)
+1 FP regen
+1 Mishap damage (only when the attack isn't parried)

So if say a Makashi user upgrades the style with +1 Mishap damage, then that style will deal 3 Mishap damage to the opponent instead of 2. And if Soresu is upgraded with +1 DP defense, well let's just say that he/she will be harder to get killed.

-Making new graphic icons for the different styles and noting their pros and cons a la KOTOR2
o: Immersive, symbolic pride of your style, noob friendly
This one I agree.

Mantis01
03-28-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks for working on that, mantis. Let us know if you get a fully functional version with the crash.c code working in it.

Okay, Hockney.
First, I copied and overwrote your source to OJP-original source (the latest revision at that time was rev334 which includes g_crash.c).
And changed following your source (I changed nothing in g_crash.c),

"g_local.h"
///* Taken out by JRHockney because he couldn't get g_crash.c to complie
//
// forty - stack traces - g_crash.c
void EnableCoreDumps(void);
void DisableCoreDumps(void);
void EnableStackTrace(void);
void DisableStackTrace(void);
//

"g_main.c"
//
//EnableStackTrace(); Taken out by JRHockney because he couldn't get g_crash.c to complie
EnableStackTrace();
//


Finally, I compiled your source successfully without error. :)
But that dedicated server is crashed with segmentation fault error.
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/218

In addition, I cheked in latest SVN source rev370, but same crash error.
I can't wait bug fix, Razor.

Maxstate
03-28-2007, 07:32 AM
i dunno about that since I've never once lost alot of FP when using Makashi.


Let's see:
Djem So = Strength
Juyo = Aggressiveness

If Juyo is any similar to Vaapad then I would have to agree on moving the +10% DP damage to it.

Also, in the EPIII novel, Dooku lost stamina while defending against Anakin's Djem So attacks so I have to agree on replacing Djem So's effect to FP dramage from an unparried Attack Fake.


Make the limit into 2 styles since most Jedi are fluent at 2-3 styles. Make Shii Cho the default stance that all Jedi should have (being the most basic and all) and make the other two stances to be the once for the player to choose.

and to make the suggestion more in-depth:
Saber Offense Lv.1 = Player can use 1 style and that would only be Shii Cho (default Style)
Saber Offense Lv.2 = Player can use 2 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 2nd one.
Saber Offense Lv.3 = Player can use 3 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 3rd one.

To sum it all up, the player will be able to use Shii Cho at Lv1 then 2 more styles at Lv2 and Lv3 which he/she would be able to choose when he/she reaches Lv2 and Lv3.

And to make it MORE in-depth: (just something to spice things up)

Since there are Jedi who are 'Masters' of certain styles, this is my suggestion. When player reaches Lv3, he/she can choose to upgrade either Shii Cho or his/her Lv2 style. It's not gonna be something big. Just simple upgrades like:

+1 DP damage
+1 DP Defense (attacker gets -1 DP damage)(also works with normal blocks)
+1 FP regen
+1 Mishap damage (only when the attack isn't parried)

So if say a Makashi user upgrades the style with +1 Mishap damage, then that style will deal 3 Mishap damage to the opponent instead of 2. And if Soresu is upgraded with +1 DP defense, well let's just say that he/she will be harder to get killed.


This one I agree.
Vaapad/Juyo is not aggressiveness, Ataru is aggressiveness..
Juyo is ferocity, it takes the power of Djem-So and the speed of Ataru only to create it's very own style, and then an element of randomness is added.

It's hard to fight against it for the same reason you, as a master swordsman(hypothetical), will have difficulty fighting and will probably lose to a person that knows nothing of swordfighting only because his movement will be very unpredictable and volatile since he does not follow your routine.

Yay mantis got is compizzled!111

mark2000
03-28-2007, 08:36 AM
I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.

I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.

Although this FP damage should be big enough or it'll end up being almost as unnoticable as Makashi's.

I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....:sweat:


BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.

Sazabi
03-28-2007, 09:51 AM
I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.

lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob :D

on more serious note i cant see too much usefulness in it on paper.
djem so looks so much better. i guess we will have to read descriptions of this saber form a few times and find what we can actually implement into game ;)

mark2000
03-28-2007, 10:22 AM
lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob
are you sure? They look as plain as Shii Cho to me(not to mention it's also as easy to parry).

razorace
03-28-2007, 02:36 PM
In addition, I cheked in latest SVN source rev370, but same crash error.
I can't wait bug fix, Razor.
I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?

razorace
03-28-2007, 02:58 PM
I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.
What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?

I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....:sweat:
Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).

BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.
I've done a lot of code to make sure that no fair comboing shouldn't occur. If the swings are unfair beyond that, it really should be fixed thru speeding up/down the swing and windup animations.

mark2000
03-28-2007, 11:27 PM
Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).

oh...I forgot about that. Well, unless someone gives Juyo a useful effect that can make it 'unpredictable' then it might as well be removed from the styles although having just 4 styles would be such a bummer.


What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?
How about a decrease in Mishap Recovery Time? Maybe that'll keep people from spamming it too much.

Anyway, if Juyo is already beyond saving, maybe you should just replace it with Ataru. Give Ataru the same DP damage as Juyo. It's effect would be something like 'Increased DP damage during Aerial Strikes' (the cartwheels and such) since Ataru loves acrobatics.

Tanqexe
03-29-2007, 01:45 AM
One idea to prevent the spamming Djem So's FP damage would be to limit the the damage bonus to only over-shoulder or overhead swings, which people usually parry. In the Rise of Darth Vader novel, Vader used Djem So to beat some poor Jedi into submission with overhead strikes. According to what we see in the movies and the description on Wookieepedia, Djem So's power uses a lot of powerful over the shoulder swings (like a bat) to press the assault. Since people can usually parry the overhead swings, that could be the disadvantage of the perk. This would result in a Djem So user having to be more strategic to fully take advantage of the style, because if they can do it skillfully, they can quickly tire out their opponents with a bunch of unsuspecting overhead swings that they craftily set up.

Juyo can be confusing if we can somehow vary the animation speed of different strikes to make it more unpredictable. If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage. OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake (Mace was kind of doing this in the last segment of his duel with Sidious), and when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.

Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents. Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.

Maxstate
03-29-2007, 03:58 AM
OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake

This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.

Mantis01
03-29-2007, 04:25 AM
I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?

The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

I'm interested in your linux environment.
Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?

Tanqexe
03-29-2007, 05:04 AM
This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.

I don't mind that Juyo will require a lot more control on the part of the user. It's supposed to be a pretty wild style, and if used correctly it can be pretty devastating. Increasing the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing and also allowing for a secondary directional change will give even more control to the player. Let's say that in the case of someone attempting a quick hit to cancel out the execution, we can allow the Juyo duelist a small window of time to change the direction of the strike, and instead of forcing the Juyo duelist to return to ready stance or block, he can initiate a combo then and there.

(It's late for me and I have no idea if this is making any sense at all)

mark2000
03-29-2007, 11:42 AM
If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage.
That's Djem So's effect already.

a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake
Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.
I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:
25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.

Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents.
Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.

Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.
I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".

~~~~~

BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.

Tanqexe
03-29-2007, 01:04 PM
That's Djem So's effect already.

Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.


Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

Not true. You only change one direction before you're committed to making a swing in another direction. I'm talking about having it, for example, look like you're going to do an overhead, which quickly turns to a low left but just as quickly moves up into a top left or right, fast enough to catch someone unsuspecting off guard because they think you're just doing a normal attack fake but slow enough for someone with good reaction time to hit you. The key is to have the use of Juyo to be difficult but very rewarding to pull off. Movie realism wise, there's a reason why not many people use Form VII - it takes a lot of control to use well.


I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:
25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.

If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.


Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.

The skill of knowing how to take full advantage of different styles' attributes helps you win in a duel. I know what you're saying, that Juyo's specialty should not be in its animation, but that's not what I'm saying to begin with. I'm saying that for more normal Juyo attacks, if a person doesn't know how to take advantage of the different types of swings in the Juyo animation set to begin with then of course they can't really confuse and catch an opponent off-balance.

The different animations produce different dynamics and strategies. Shii-cho may look pretty basic but if you underestimate it it can land more blows than you can react to parry - play with Jon a couple times and you'll know. The swings of Makashi can look like they're going in one direction but they're really going in another - almost like a feint; Soresu's swings are minimalistic and relatively slow, and you can hide some of your different directions of attacks or fakes that way, compared to other styles. Sure if you're playing against a bot who doesn't pay attention to these facts, it won't make a difference, but against a player who does know the difference, you can be in for a few surprises.


I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".

Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.



BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.

Random effects in combat are extremely annoying. I'm sure you've seen the lightning mishap bug happen a few times by now.

UDM
03-29-2007, 01:58 PM
Yeah no luck shots please!

razorace
03-29-2007, 07:12 PM
The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

I'm interested in your linux environment.
Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?
buh, I don't know. I'm just using EscapedTurkey.com's servers.
(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)
The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.

mark2000
03-29-2007, 08:10 PM
Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.
Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.

If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.
One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.

The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.
well that explains alot of things. Thanks for the info.

Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.
Since razor already cleared things up to me about the AF faking, then this type of AF, as long as it's unique to Juyo, should be fine by me.

Tanqexe
03-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.

I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.


One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.

If you have a good enough reaction time to know when to make the hit when it counts without someone being able to defend against it in time, then that's a show of skill. As I said, make the move hard to pull off (since it requires some timing so that someone with great reaction time can be fast enough or on guard enough to parry it), but give the successful hit a sure-shot bonus to reward the player for his good execution. Assigning a percentage chance of an effect happening is, again, very frustrating for both parties and is not a good way to reduce spammability. If it's hard to pull off, then it will less likely to be spammed to great effect.

Thinking about it some more, the parrying paralysis effect would be a better perk for Juyo because in the time that it takes to launch the combo or two-direction attack fake, the same person could have gotten one more hit in which would weigh in with more DP damage than a couple hits plus a bonus on the last hit. Parrying paralysis would be more significant and worth the trouble.

mark2000
03-30-2007, 06:15 AM
I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.
OH! LOL. I forgot you've already mentioned about Djem So's FP damage. My bad. :p

make the move hard to pull off
and that 'move' would be something like......the Double Fake you mentioned earlier correct? I guess anyone who loves spamming the normal swing could easily break a Double Fake but I feel like the move should be something even harder to do.

BTW. Since AF's can also register a hit even though they don't instantly go into a saberlock, do you think that the Status effect from the Double Fake should register from both a regular hit and after a saberlock? Personally, I don't think that the effect should happen after a saberlock has finished since those things are mostly about strength so it's hardly logical that someone will get confused after a saberlock has finished since there's really nothing "confusing" or random about it.

Maxstate
04-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Well.. is it true that Power attacks reset the mishap bar? How about when using Juyo it stays at it's current position regardless of what kind of attack it is. (Unless it's a riposte or something ofcourse)

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 05:37 AM
That way Juyo guys can power attack their opponent and make them keep the same mishap level even when PA'd.

Crap edit != post

rut-wa jodar
04-05-2007, 01:40 PM
JRHockney,

I played on your server today, and I got creamed by "Anakin" who was either a player who doesn`t speak much,or the smartest Bot i have ever Dueled against. Damn he was good and he didn`t need to use force powers to kick my A**

razorace
04-05-2007, 02:03 PM
I'm pretty sure Anakin is a bot on hocky's server.

rut-wa jodar
04-05-2007, 02:07 PM
That`s what i was afraid of, getting owned by a Bot :(

BTW!
Respect to Razorace for an outstanding mod.

mark2000
04-06-2007, 12:06 AM
oh.....THAT bot....>_>

I think it's on Jedi Master and it probably has a big @ass amount of DP. I dueled with it once that lasted for about 20 minutes only to get killed in the end.....=_=

razorace
04-06-2007, 03:15 PM
Assuming the server doesn't crash and the bot doesn't leave the game for some reason, it's very possible that "Anakin" has a boatload of skill points.