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Astrotoy7
02-10-2007, 12:13 PM
lolz...for those of you who came in cheering thinking I was going away... sorry - this thread is about my new build ;)

Im sick of my monster asus case... and after building a shuttle small form factor media center pc... I decided I want to relocate and update my gaming setup into a shuttle SFF too :)

The case ive gone with is the shuttle xpc SN27P2, which support AMD2 and dual slot graphics cards(and also suit the decor of my room!!!)
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/images/product_xpcsn27p2b.jpg

Here are my planned specs.

CPU: AMDx2 5000+ cheap now :) and no, I dont want a ****** Intel.
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate (RTM Build 6000)
RAM : 4GB DDR2 (this units mainboard supports up to 8GB)
HDD: 200GB SATA will do :) I'll leave the ITB(over 2 drives) in my media center pc
Graphics: my 7950 GX2 is still useful. Ive done my research, and this chassis can fit and power a 8800GTX for the inevitable DX10 switch(later on this year)

I find it amazing that a 350W PSU can calmly and coolly power what a standard-atx PSU need 600W plus... these shuttle psus have sufficient amperage to make them dual Gfx card friendly.

all in all, this switch will cost me zero dollars, as purchase of the new barebone unit/cpu/ram should equal what I sell my asus rig for :)

now i'll be able to go to those shady LANs again :p

anyone else have a small form factor gaming rig atm ??

mtfbwya

Q
02-10-2007, 01:18 PM
Just out of curiosity, what motherboard are you using? Does that case use a standard size M/B?

And yeah, your GX2 should be up to date for some time to come.

EDIT: Have you checked out the X2 5200+? It's $14.00USD more than the 5000+ at NewEgg (just a reference, I know you can't get it from there in OZ) and has twice the cache.

RoxStar
02-10-2007, 02:16 PM
Why do you need 4gb of ram? Do you work at pixar?

:p

Astrotoy7
02-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Why do you need 4gb of ram? Do you work at pixar?

:p

lolz....Im starting at 2gb for the time being. Will crawl up to four by the time were DX10 ready and I have an 8800...could be late end of this year. It really depends on how DX10 pans out, and what titles are available.

My xp system used its (ceiling level) 3gb to the max(ran benchies when compared to 2gb) With Vista, the bottlenecks are pushed a little further down the line :)

Whilst Im not a high end CGI animator, I am a mutitakser from hell, and do a wad of video editing - now in HDef, which isnt mickey mouse as far as its demands on your system :)

@Qliveuer.... thanks for the heads up...I'd sortve not thought about the 5200s! And yes, we do have them here, for very similar to the 5000 prices too :) I'll track down some benchies though, I wonder if that extra cache makes some major differences ??

mtfbwya

Q
02-10-2007, 09:26 PM
Whilst Im not a high end CGI animator, I am a mutitakser from hell, and do a wad of video editing - now in HDef, which isnt mickey mouse as far as its demands on your system
That goes a long way towards explaining why you're so interested in the quad-cores.

Yeah I multitask too, but... it... doesn't... always... work.:)

Astrotoy7
02-10-2007, 11:47 PM
That goes a long way towards explaining why you're so interested in the quad-cores.

Yeah I multitask too, but... it... doesn't... always... work.:)

there is method to my madness y'know ;)

I have some friends who are usually one-eyed Mac users(pro tools etc) that are keeping a sly eye on what QUAD+VISTA+DX10 can do

Time will tell :p

astro

Carlo El Sanchez
02-11-2007, 12:50 AM
What a load of stuff, didn't it cost you ? If games and other stuff are the reason people want their computers upgraded so much, why don't you just buy an Xbox 360. Full on power.

Astrotoy7
02-11-2007, 02:09 AM
What a load of stuff, didn't it cost you ? If games and other stuff are the reason people want their computers upgraded so much, why don't you just buy an Xbox 360. Full on power.

your kidding right?? How much video editing is a 360 going to let me do?? My beloved NWN?? HDTV recording(not streaming)?? Media Server setup?? Ridiculous.

Its not costing me this time as I am downsizing(as far as case/mobo/PSU concerned), and selling most of everything else(except HDD) Will save on the power bills in the long ruin too :p

Perhaps you should do more than skim read posts next time, mayn !! :p

The xbox360 + friends are 'next gen' today... and will soon be surpassed by PC gaming tech (arguably already has). In <2 years time we'll have more multi gpu and combined CnGPU solutions, perhaps (effective) quad sli/X-fire. Sony will also be entering teh CPU market soon, and AMD is meticulously and patiently working on their K8L Quaddies with the intention of blowing Intel and their mickey mouse quads out of the water...I hope they can pull it off[/biased AMD fanboy]

Interesting times ahead for PC gaming technology.

the only consoles Im interested is the Ps3/Wii due to their Final Fantasy titles ;) But Im in no hurry to get either.

mtfbwya

Negative Sun
02-11-2007, 10:45 AM
The xbox360 + friends are 'next gen' today... and will soon be surpassed by PC gaming tech (arguably already has). In <2 years time we'll have more multi gpu and combined CnGPU solutions, perhaps (effective) quad sli/X-fire. Sony will also be entering teh CPU market soon, and AMD is meticulously and patiently working on their K8L Quaddies with the intention of blowing Intel and their mickey mouse quads out of the water...I hope they can pull it off[/biased AMD fanboy]

Let's not forget the Fusion project either *drools*

Btw, you seem to know your stuff, everyone (especially computing magazines around here) seems convinced that the Intel Core 2 Duo processors like E6600 are better than the X2 5000+ etc...(I get the feeling most magazines are Intel biased)
What do you think? I know the E6600 has more cache and all, but I've always been an AMD/ATI fanboy as well and I need a good reason to stick with AMD on my next rig...

Q
02-11-2007, 02:27 PM
Not to step on any fanboy toes, but C2D is better. You did notice Astro's admitting to being a biased AMD fanboy in his post, right? :)

In his defense, though, I will point out that those who buy a motherboard with socket AM2 now, or those who own one already should be able to upgrade to K8L when it comes out.

Will K8L be competitive with C2D? Absolutely! Why else to you think that Intel built so much headroom into C2D (that room for growth that makes them such CRAZY overclockers now)? To keep them competitive with K8L. AMD's architecture already has a few advantages over C2D that aren't very apparent in the present benchmarks. The most important of these, IMO is its on-board memory controller (no northbridge bottleneck) that delivers a huge amount of memory bandwidth, far more than C2D's.

C2D makes up for its lack of an on-board memory controller with its large cache and the clever use of advanced data-fetching techniques that I couldn't even begin to understand, let alone explain, but this may end up being its Achilles' heel. If AMD can build a core that can take real advantage of their on-board memory controller by executing far more instructions per clock cycle than the present Athlon64 core can now (and I don't see any reason why they couldn't), it will trash C2D.

The on-board memory controller advantage will be no more apparent than in the case of the quad-cores. The C2Q has all 4 cores in one chip and all 4 share the same 1066 MHZ FSB (and the same northbridge bottleneck). With it's on-board memory controller, K8L won't have near the memory bandwith bottleneck to deal with as C2Q, resulting in a faster quad-core setup with more memry bandwidth available to each core.

Not to mention the fact that K8L will be designed as a quad-core from the ground up, instead of being 2 dual-core CPU's sharing the same wafer like C2Q. K8L will inevitably be a more efficient quad-core setup.

Nor will I mention AMD's rather pathetic attempt at a quad-core setup using 2 separate FX chips, each addressing its own memory, as it's not worth mentioning (but I did mention it just now, didn't I? Sorry, but I just couldn't resist! :xp: )

My conclusion? Anyone who already has an AM2 M/B would be insane to dump it in favor of a C2D setup, especially if they're thinking of spending the big bucks on a quad-core chip in the future. If you already have an AM2 M/B and an X2 CPU and you feel like you're being left behind by C2D, buy yourself a Tuniq Tower 120 HSF for 50 bucks and overclock that puppy as high as it will go (>3GHZ in most cases, if you know what you're doing) and wait for K8L and whatever it's dual-core derivative will be called. The X2's performance should be more than adequate to tide you over. The money you save by waiting would go a long way towards the purchase of a quad-core multitasking monster. Just have a lot memory on hand (4GB or more with Vista) to feed it!;)

If you have no intention of going quad-core, and you're building a new system now, I'd have to recommend the present performance champ, the C2D. It's fast, it's cheap, it's a ridiculous overclocker and, most of all, it's available NOW.

Thus endeth my rather long-winded sermon on the present CPU situation. Go in peace. :)

Astrotoy7
02-11-2007, 03:46 PM
great post Qliveur :D

Im happy to bide my time, especially if that means K8L/Quad will be a well designed and implemented piece of kit :p Best to do it right, rather than rushed :(

I know conroes are bang for bucks, but I simply am down on Intel - it's political. A company that lays off over 10,000 people because of its poor business practises can only be frowned at IMO.

Plus, there is the gripe of their *ridiculous* marketing monikers - aka the 'megahertz myth' , which even they have now (wisely) stopped doing. Oh and then there's Netburst....fancy a fried egg ?? :p

For reasons which you have very elaborately outlined, I hope it's apparent that my 'relocating' into an AM2 platform is quite deliberate indeed !!

btw, Qliveur, can you give some insights into C2Ds thermal properties(for curiousity's sake). I find it hard to believe any intel chip can sit at 29C at idle, 35C loaded on stock cooling like my x2 4800 does for example.

mtfbwya

Q
02-11-2007, 04:48 PM
Athlon64's and X2's run amazingly cool, and always have, but C2D comes pretty close.

I take it that your 4800+ is a socket 939 and that's why you're getting a 5000+ or 5200+?

Carlo El Sanchez
02-12-2007, 12:59 AM
Computers are all so confusing for me! man all i use it for is E-mail and LF. You guys must be pro's, i never play any game or upgrade my PC in that way. Except anti-virus and stuff like that.

Negative Sun
02-12-2007, 04:33 AM
Not to step on any fanboy toes, but C2D is better. You did notice Astro's admitting to being a biased AMD fanboy in his post, right? :)

In his defense, though, I will point out that those who buy a motherboard with socket AM2 now, or those who own one already should be able to upgrade to K8L when it comes out.

Will K8L be competitive with C2D? Absolutely! Why else to you think that Intel built so much headroom into C2D (that room for growth that makes them such CRAZY overclockers now)? To keep them competitive with K8L. AMD's architecture already has a few advantages over C2D that aren't very apparent in the present benchmarks. The most important of these, IMO is its on-board memory controller (no northbridge bottleneck) that delivers a huge amount of memory bandwidth, far more than C2D's.

C2D makes up for its lack of an on-board memory controller with its large cache and the clever use of advanced data-fetching techniques that I couldn't even begin to understand, let alone explain, but this may end up being its Achilles' heel. If AMD can build a core that can take real advantage of their on-board memory controller by executing far more instructions per clock cycle than the present Athlon64 core can now (and I don't see any reason why they couldn't), it will trash C2D.

The on-board memory controller advantage will be no more apparent than in the case of the quad-cores. The C2Q has all 4 cores in one chip and all 4 share the same 1066 MHZ FSB (and the same northbridge bottleneck). With it's on-board memory controller, K8L won't have near the memory bandwith bottleneck to deal with as C2Q, resulting in a faster quad-core setup with more memry bandwidth available to each core.

Not to mention the fact that K8L will be designed as a quad-core from the ground up, instead of being 2 dual-core CPU's sharing the same wafer like C2Q. K8L will inevitably be a more efficient quad-core setup.

Nor will I mention AMD's rather pathetic attempt at a quad-core setup using 2 separate FX chips, each addressing its own memory, as it's not worth mentioning (but I did mention it just now, didn't I? Sorry, but I just couldn't resist! :xp: )

My conclusion? Anyone who already has an AM2 M/B would be insane to dump it in favor of a C2D setup, especially if they're thinking of spending the big bucks on a quad-core chip in the future. If you already have an AM2 M/B and an X2 CPU and you feel like you're being left behind by C2D, buy yourself a Tuniq Tower 120 HSF for 50 bucks and overclock that puppy as high as it will go (>3GHZ in most cases, if you know what you're doing) and wait for K8L and whatever it's dual-core derivative will be called. The X2's performance should be more than adequate to tide you over. The money you save by waiting would go a long way towards the purchase of a quad-core multitasking monster. Just have a lot memory on hand (4GB or more with Vista) to feed it!;)

If you have no intention of going quad-core, and you're building a new system now, I'd have to recommend the present performance champ, the C2D. It's fast, it's cheap, it's a ridiculous overclocker and, most of all, it's available NOW.

Thus endeth my rather long-winded sermon on the present CPU situation. Go in peace. :)
Wow, thanks a lot for that, I think I will stick with AMD, and socket AM2 in particular in the future...

Q
02-12-2007, 10:38 AM
Wow, thanks a lot for that, I think I will stick with AMD, and socket AM2 in particular in the future...
Do keep in mind that if you're building a system from scratch, the decision between Intel and AMD is a little more complicated, what with Intel being the performance champ at present, and with C2D being so cheap and ridiculously overclockable.

Since I have no interest in investing in a ~$1000USD chip and I'm operating on a tight budget, I'd probably go with C2D ATM.

The reason I posted the above comments is that I've seen a lot of cases on the tech forums that I browse through of people dumping perfectly good AM2 platforms that they bought just six months ago in order to have C2D because it's faster than the X2 when they could just save their money for six more months and put it towards the purchase of a single chip (K8L) that would bring them completely up to date. That's just an asinine waste of money, IMHO.

btw, Qliveur, can you give some insights into C2Ds thermal properties(for curiousity's sake). I find it hard to believe any intel chip can sit at 29C at idle, 35C loaded on stock cooling like my x2 4800 does for example.
Core 2 Duo Temperature Guide-the most comprehensive I could find ATM (http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Core-duo-temps-ftopict222469.html)
What utility are you using to take your temp readings? This guide provides temp readings for every utility under the sun, so keep that in mind when you make your comparison. From what I can tell, the Athlon64 is amazingly cool for a 90nm architecture.

Astrotoy7
02-12-2007, 01:21 PM
... From what I can tell, the Athlon64 is amazingly cool for a 90nm architecture.

C2D has made some important advances in thermals. I have friends with a similar (large) case and setup to my 4800(939) setup, and they dont get below 40-45C on idle

Funny to hear of the fickle types who switched to C2D because they are too impatient to wait til Q2 of this year :)

mtfbwya

Q
04-01-2007, 02:40 AM
Welcome back, Astro!:D

I've been wanting to ask you how your new shuttle PC turned out, what CPU you went with, etc. Gimme some details!

I'm sort of in the process of building a new PC myself -one free-after-rebate piece at a time. I got a free PSU a couple of months ago, and I just received a free case on Friday. I might just have one built by 2010!:xp:

Astrotoy7
04-01-2007, 07:45 AM
Welcome back, Astro!:D

I've been wanting to ask you how your new shuttle PC turned out, what CPU you went with, etc. Gimme some details!

I'm sort of in the process of building a new PC myself -one free-after-rebate piece at a time. I got a free PSU a couple of months ago, and I just received a free case on Friday. I might just have one built by 2010!:xp:

glad to be back Q :)

The shuttle case turned out to be unsuitable and cost prohibitive! There are only 2 exp slots in a shuttle, so a dual GPU gfx card is the only thing you can put in there. For my standalone home theater pc thats fine, but I plan on putting a tv tuner/capture card in this one too - which I need the mysterious pci-e x1 slot (yes! it has a use!!)

I got the much cheaper Aspire QPack - which is a roomier small form factor. I just love the removable mboard tray - made it supremely easy to work with. I also love the handle and the fact that I can cart my PC to friends places/LANs for some MP skullduggery. I definitely couldnt do that with my asus vento case... The case and the mboard turned out to cost 1/3 of the cost of the shuttle equivalent. Go figure.

These are the specs
Case:Aspire Q-Pack(Black!)
http://www.pccasegear.com.au/images/qpack_55.jpg

MBoard:Gigabyte GA-M51GM-S2G - Micro-ATX. Picked this one as it was nicely priced, had Vista certification and a good compliment of vista drivers straight off the bat.
RAM:4GB Corsair. Plain ole 1.8V stuff...nuthin fancy - havent fiddled with any settings either...no need to
CPU: AMD x2 5000+

I actually had a choice between 5200 and a 5000 as I had purchased one of each. I sold the 5200 to a friend at a profit when building his mediacenter rig :) The 5000 is doing a smashing job anyways...it'll keep me going until K8L... My case has a CPU temp LCD on the front - my CPU is always between 28-32C. I have friends with C2Ds.... I havent seen any that lurk at that temp at idle or play.[/AMD fanboy]

Graphics: Im sure I dont need to tell you :p

Mind you, From everything Im reading and market prices, the 7950GX2 is only topped by the 768MB GTX version of the 8800. So Im hangin onto for a while yet :) Btw, you may giggle to hear that nvidia hadnt enabled Multi GPU support in Vista in official driver releases yet !! The March 2 beta release did(finally!) - and these drivers are about to be WHQL'd and rolled out very soon :) I have to applaud nvidia...there has been alot of bitching but theyve done pretty well to get ontop of the new OS, IMO. I think most people have no idea just what a challenge it is for these manufacturers.

TV Tuner: pci-e low profile dual dvb-t. Ive decided to use my pc to record the shows Im going to edit and compress and then but on back to the media server Im tinkering with(running windows home server beta) The media center pc in the lounge will be used for general stuff. I'll probably eventually pull the 750gb HDD out of there and shove it in the server...

Plans:This super snazzy LCD display for my spare 5.25 bay from silverstone
http://www.silverstonetek.com/images/products/mfp51/mfp51-v4.jpg These are due to be released very shortly and well sell like hotcakes with the home theater pc crowd...They look great!

this case mod badge thingy...I dunno...I like it! Im planning on plugging it into the HDD led plug so its eyes flicker in evil fashion ....lolz
http://www.pccasegear.com/images/evilsight_3.jpg

also, I am seriously thinking about getting a slot load kit, to chuck some slimline drives into...I like the slotload look :) Im still undecided about whether to get a single or double type....those bezel kits are pretty hard to find though :(

http://www.case-mod.com/images/cid06116301a_LG.jpg

once all that is done, then I can start saving the $$$ for my K8L CPU :p

mtfbwya

Negative Sun
04-01-2007, 08:04 AM
I was wondering about this thread as well myself yesterday...

Me and my fiancée want to build our own "Dream *cough*budget*cough* PC", and we want to go for an AM2 setup...
This is the setup so far:

- MSI K9N Ultra-2F Motherboard (AM2 socket, 1000 Mhz FSB, up to 8Gb of DDR2 RAM, 1 PCI-e x 16 slot and 3 PCI-e x 1 slots)
- AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (while I'm at this, is there a difference between this one (http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=7906&category_id=341&manufacturer_id=0) and this one here (http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=10582&category_id=341&manufacturer_id=0), and by that I mean, one says Dual Core but with 2.2 Ghz, while the other says 2 x 2.4Ghz, which confuses me a bit, notice that the boxes look different as well)
- 2Gb of DDR2 (possibly 800Mhz) memory
- 256MB Sapphire Radeon X1950GT
- HDD: 250Gb Seagate Barracuda 7,200RPM / 16MB Buffer
- 19" Screen

All of this will cost us roughly £500 or $1000 USD, which I think is a pretty good deal, remember we only need this to keep up with Vista, and we are casual gamers, not hardcore ones, plus we're on a budget...
What's the verdict? (some feedback would be much appreciated ;))

Astrotoy7
04-01-2007, 10:42 AM
...All of this will cost us roughly £500 or $1000 USD, which I think is a pretty good deal, remember we only need this to keep up with Vista, and we are casual gamers, not hardcore ones, plus we're on a budget...
What's the verdict? (some feedback would be much appreciated ;))

thats a resonably mid end system...especially that gfx card is more than sufficient to keep up with vista :)

You probably already have done so, but check MSIs site for vista driver support. Also googling a review or two is always a great idea to see what the ups n downs are of any particular component.

btw - what version or vista are you going with ?? I recommend Home Premium. As your are putting a system together, an OEM copy will be much cheaper than a retail copy.

As for the CPUs youve linkied to - one is the X2 4200+ and the other is the X2 4600. Both have the same amount of cache but different clockspeeds, 2.2 and 2.4 GHz respectively. Looking at those prices......you can get a 4800 for that price on ebayUK.....for about 20-30 squid more, you can get a 5000 or 5200, which will serve your for a good time to come :)

good luck on the build. Make sure you get a decent case fan too ;)

post some piccies when you're done :p

mtfbwya

stingerhs
04-01-2007, 01:45 PM
@Negative Sun - my advice on the two processors is to get the Athlon 4200 instead of the 4600. i say that because the only difference between those two processors is that the 4600 runs 200Mhz faster than the 4200. that difference is fairly negligible and can easily be compensated by overclocking the 4200 by 200Mhz, especially since a 200Mhz increase isn't all that hard to obtain with the Windsor core.

that's just a little extra info for ya. ;)

@ Astro - good to see that you got the build going for ya. i, for one, am looking forward to the final product. :)

Negative Sun
04-01-2007, 03:04 PM
thats a resonably mid end system...especially that gfx card is more than sufficient to keep up with vista :)
Cool, it's Vista compatible, so that's always a plus.

You probably already have done so, but check MSIs site for vista driver support. Also googling a review or two is always a great idea to see what the ups n downs are of any particular component.
I hadn't done it yet, but I just checked and it is, together with the GPU I don't see any problems arising on that front.

btw - what version or vista are you going with ?? I recommend Home Premium. As your are putting a system together, an OEM copy will be much cheaper than a retail copy.
I'd like to get Ultimate, but would probably get Premium, since we're getting a laptop soon as well that will have Vista Premium with it...btw, what's OEM and how would I get a Vista OEM copy?
Edit: Found it on the site, and it is considerably cheaper than the Retail version, but what's the difference?
Also, since I'm already running XP, I could just upgrade to Vista, maybe that would save me even more money?

As for the CPUs youve linkied to - one is the X2 4200+ and the other is the X2 4600. Both have the same amount of cache but different clockspeeds, 2.2 and 2.4 GHz respectively. Looking at those prices......you can get a 4800 for that price on ebayUK.....for about 20-30 squid more, you can get a 5000 or 5200, which will serve your for a good time to come :)
lol, maybe on American Ebay, but not here my friend, this is Europe ripoff!
I was actually referring to the difference in notation, notice that one says blahGhz and the other says 2xblahGhz, gey my drift?

good luck on the build. Make sure you get a decent case fan too ;)

post some piccies when you're done :p

mtfbwya
Thanks, and will do, we were looking at a case that had a 450W PSU in it, I think that would do, but I'm not sure, were you the one who once posted a link to a site where you can calculate the requirements for a PSU?


@Negative Sun - my advice on the two processors is to get the Athlon 4200 instead of the 4600. i say that because the only difference between those two processors is that the 4600 runs 200Mhz faster than the 4200. that difference is fairly negligible and can easily be compensated by overclocking the 4200 by 200Mhz, especially since a 200Mhz increase isn't all that hard to obtain with the Windsor core.

that's just a little extra info for ya.
Cool, but like I mentioned above, I'm more concerned about that 2xsomethingGhz number, and whether it makes any significant difference...

Astrotoy7
04-02-2007, 12:31 AM
I'd like to get Ultimate, but would probably get Premium, since we're getting a laptop soon as well that will have Vista Premium with it...btw, what's OEM and how would I get a Vista OEM copy?
Edit: Found it on the site, and it is considerably cheaper than the Retail version, but what's the difference?

Also, since I'm already running XP, I could just upgrade to Vista, maybe that would save me even more money?

lol, maybe on American Ebay, but not here my friend, this is Europe ripoff!
I was actually referring to the difference in notation, notice that one says blahGhz and the other says 2xblahGhz, gey my drift?


Thanks, and will do, we were looking at a case that had a 450W PSU in it, I think that would do, but I'm not sure, were you the one who once posted a link to a site where you can calculate the requirements for a PSU?


NegSun... the differences you are referring to is simply a mode of description, all of which describe the same thing!! There are single core 4200+ etc CPUs. The dual core version(two single cores on one die) is represented by x2 in the AMD name eg. AMD x2 4200+

Some retailers like to clarify(or confuse!) this by referring to it as 2x ie. "two lots of!!" simple as that. hence

AMD 4200+ = 2.2 Ghz (one single core)
AMD x2 4200+ = 2x2.2 Ghz = 2lots of a 2.2Ghz one one die !! (dual cores)

still, those UK prices for the 5000 are pretty decent :) When you get from Ebay US, you get smacked by teh delivery fee, which evens it all out.

Also, stingers advice is worth considering - though ive never felt the necessity to OC an AMD dual core chip. Lower end singel core maybe, but for those not 100% confident with what to do, and not having made proper compensatiosn for thermal management(fans etc), you should tread with caution, or at least read up alot til you're confident about it.

Id recommend an oem vista over the upgrade easily....why you ask ??? It only installs UPON your (legit of course) copy of XP. This makes many concerned for two reasons....

1. How much xp stuff that is redundant now is lurking somewhere in your system, taking up space and doing zilch!

2. Every time youd like to reinstall vista, eg. major software or hardware crash, reformat etc - you'd need to install xp first !! As a side note, Vista can often take offence to you switching hardware on it ! Usually CPU and Mainboard, Ive had it do it to a HDD !!! Its meant to be a security feature, but is an annoyance. (though the HDD difficulty is also due to vista usind a different mode of boot command....)

and yes, network magic(from your previous query) allows you to share folders with a couple of clicks. Its pretty awesome - even across xp + vista, wired + wireless setups - like I have.

btw - The power usage calculator is in the 'killer apps and fave sites thread'

mtfbwya

Negative Sun
04-02-2007, 02:23 PM
Thanks a bundle Astro, sorry for hogging your thread ;)
Just a few more questions though:
What is OEM and what entitles me to buy a Vista OEM?
Is there a difference between 32 and 64-bit Vista?
What kind of RAM would you recommend? (branded or not? What frequency? etc...)

I wouldn't go into OC country lol, I just don't wanna mess with that...

Q
04-02-2007, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't go into OC country lol, I just don't wanna mess with that...
Then I would go with the X2 4600+ @2.4GHZ because it's close to being $100.00US cheaper than the X2 5000+ @2.6GHZ while being only about $25.00US more than the X2 3800+ @2.0GHZ. It offers the best bang for the buck for a non-O/C setup.

If you were O/C'ing, I'd say go with the X2 3600+ @1.9GHZ. People are getting great speeds (as high as 3GHZ!) out of it, and it's OEM price is a ridiculous $65.00US, making it the cheapest dual-core on the market.

Negative Sun
04-02-2007, 03:43 PM
Then I would go with the X2 4600+ @2.4GHZ because it's close to being $100.00US cheaper than the X2 5000+ @2.6GHZ while being only about $25.00US more than the X2 3800+ @2.0GHZ. It offers the best bang for the buck for a non-O/C setup.

If you were O/C'ing, I'd say go with the X2 3600+ @1.9GHZ. People are getting great speeds (as high as 3GHZ!) out of it, and it's OEM price is a ridiculous $65.00US, making it the cheapest dual-core on the market.
What's the pros and cons of O/C'ing though?
Can it damage your motherboard? Or just your CPU?
Is it recommended on stock cooling? Or do you have to get better cooling than that?

Maybe it should be in another thread, lol, just wondering...

Q
04-02-2007, 05:45 PM
Pro(s):
-Getting a cheap chip to perform like a much, much more expensive one.

Cons:
-Usually requires an aftermarket heatsink. It can be done with the stock heatsink, but only to lower clock speeds. Note that OEM CPU's don't ship with a heatsink.
-May require better (faster) memory -not much of a con because memory prices are low(er) right now.
-Requires a case with good airflow/fans.
-It can damage/fry your CPU, but only if you're extremely careless. There's lots of good guides to follow that are available online. They can tell you how to prevent this from happening.

tk102
04-03-2007, 11:02 AM
RAM : 4GB DDR2 (this units mainboard supports up to 8GB)

Is there a difference between 32 and 64-bit Vista?

Well one difference is that you'll need the 64-bit version if you want to be able to use 8GB of ram.

Darth333
04-03-2007, 12:18 PM
Is there a difference between 32 and 64-bit Vista?

I heard that the 64-bit version As for the 64bytes edition, lets you install only Microsoft signed drivers...

tk102
04-03-2007, 12:27 PM
I heard that the 64-bit version As for the 64bytes edition, lets you install only Microsoft signed drivers...
Yep, that's PatchGuard. It's a feature that got the antivirus folk pretty upset since it prevents Ring 0 access to unsigned drivers. That means they have to get all their software signed by Microsoft if they want it work on Vista64. It's really not a bad move on MS's part security-wise, as long as they can skirt the antitrust lawsuits.

Negative Sun
04-03-2007, 02:38 PM
Pro(s):
-Getting a cheap chip to perform like a much, much more expensive one.

Cons:
-Usually requires an aftermarket heatsink. It can be done with the stock heatsink, but only to lower clock speeds. Note that OEM CPU's don't ship with a heatsink.
-May require better (faster) memory -not much of a con because memory prices are low(er) right now.
-Requires a case with good airflow/fans.
-It can damage/fry your CPU, but only if you're extremely careless. There's lots of good guides to follow that are available online. They can tell you how to prevent this from happening.
Can someone explain to me what OEM is all about please? Cause I'm a bit confused...

Q
04-03-2007, 04:01 PM
Retail includes a stock heatsink and a longer warranty (3yrs).

OEM is just the CPU and a shorter warranty (1yr).

Negative Sun
04-03-2007, 04:21 PM
Cool, thanks, so what's the difference between OEM Vista and retail Vista?

Q
04-03-2007, 04:34 PM
You can only use the OEM version on one computer, so if you buy a new computer, you have to get a new copy. Not so with the retail version.

As far as upgrading the main components on your computer like the motherboard and CPU with the OEM version, I don't know, since you'd essentially end up with a different computer after the upgrade. I'll bet someone else knows the answer to that one and I hope that they post it, as I'm rather curious about this myself.

Darth333
04-03-2007, 04:47 PM
The OEM version is tied to the Motherboard so if you change it, it is considered as a new PC.

Q
04-03-2007, 06:39 PM
Thought so.:(

So if your motherboard dies you're just SOL?

Astrotoy7
04-04-2007, 12:46 AM
Thought so.:(

So if your motherboard dies you're just SOL?

it's a matter of calling MS, telling them that and getting a new key.... There are some extra conditions with this IIRC, such as registration(not just activation)

funny thing is sneaky types were doing this to fully activate RC2 copies back in the day...lolz :p

I dont see why an 'average user'(surfin/workin/gaming) would need 64 bit yet. The driver hassle is just one obstacle you can face....

Funnily enough, my mobo can support up to a ridiculous 16GB with a 64bit OS. Its too bad they havent made 4gb sticks of ddr2 6400 yet!! :p

OEM is an acronym for "original equipment manufacturer" - which has a quite complex legalistic definition(which probably only D333 can make sense of) :p

As far as PC DIYers are concerned - it means: "buying stuff that is out of its fancy retail box so it is significantly cheaper!!" In the case of Vista, as mentioned above - you are legally only entitled to install one oem copy per machine. If you buy the full retail Vista, it gives you a more liberal license... (up to 5pcs?? or something like that)

Recommended RAM - only get super dooper(expensive) ram:
a)if you feel you really need it, want to do some OCing and mess with the timings
b)if your mobo supports it. Alot of that uber RAM works at 2.2V, which sometimes doesnt sit nicely with mboards that want the plain ole 1.8V.

The corsair value select range is great IMO for someone after some good quality, cheaper RAM. Great performance - at a nice price. Some people use Kingston, but Ive only ever used that brand in a laptop so cant comment too much on it. To tell truth, Ive seen people use generic brands too which have worked fine as well. It all comes down to what you can afford

mtfbwya

Negative Sun
04-04-2007, 06:07 PM
Fair enough, thanks guys!

Astrotoy7
06-19-2007, 12:36 PM
lolz....how things change...Ive become fed up with my 'pirate' rig. why ? its too big!! I want "smaller" smallform damnit! Having extra space in there for a TV tuner is no longer as issue, as it was originally...

Thus, with much financial plotting and scheming, and hawking my wares on ebay - I'm finally getting what I always wanted..... as mentioned above:

The Shuttle SN27P2 !!
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7534/shuttle2gg6.jpg

Ive already listed the specs above.. I should be picking up mine this week :)

I have also sold my 7950GX2! its about time I get a DX10 card... It's no huge surprise to anyone at all that Im leaning towards a 8800GTX...in particular the XFX XXX Edition.... lolz... love all those Xs ;) But I may end up getting something a bit more conservative if I end up getting one of these:

Samsung Syncmaster 305T
30" LCD capable of 2560 x1200 via dual link DVI. My existing Samsung 27" 1360x786(720p) will go on the wall in our bedroom :D This monitor should hopefully future proof me until it is the norm to run games at those resolutions!

http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/images/l_305t.jpg

all that screen real estate at ultra high rez makes me drool....(figuratively)

But until I actually get my 8 series card....You can all have a good giggle to know I will be using an old geforce 6200 Turbocache 64mb :( :p

lolz...

mtfbwya

CLONECOMMANDER501
06-19-2007, 04:50 PM
Finally I've beaten the master of specs! [I have a 6600]

Astrotoy7
06-19-2007, 11:25 PM
Finally I've beaten the master of specs! [I have a 6600]

lolz :p yes, have your giggles...

My stepdaughters pc has that, but Im not going to go the hassle of pulling it out to ever so slightly make me feel better :D hehehe (if it was a 7950GT like I put into my sisters rig, then I would have pulled it in a sec!)

mtfbwya

CLONECOMMANDER501
06-20-2007, 08:25 PM
But sadly you forgot the screw driver so ........... ya....... :D

Astrotoy7
07-30-2007, 10:30 AM
my whole new kit will be up and running soon... the shuttle smallform, 880GTS 640MB, all here - just need that 30" monitor and my uber pc is done :D I'll be back with pics in the not too distant future....!

2560x1600 native rez....[/drools]

mtfbwya