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View Full Version : Kreia needs a hand


jinger
02-20-2007, 09:26 AM
Has anybody noticed that Kreia lacks her left hand in "Kreia's fall"? That model has different animations so I couldn't just duplicate the one with both hands and replace the textures in it. Do you think it's possible to import the left hand into that model? I don't quite understand how would I handle positioning and hierarchy but I take it it's being done, you know, adding meshes to body models. Any tips would be great.

jinger
02-22-2007, 02:46 AM
Kreia should appear with both hands and evil textures only in that movie so I figured I'd just make a new movie with one simple trick. I made a lightsaber item using Kreia's left hand model so that she'd be carrying it, then I frapped the whole scene and made a bink with the audio track from the original. It worked, but the movie looks a bit crappy, it would take some time to make out the right rate and resolution, both with fraps and with the bink converter.

I'd very much like to keep it in-game, like I did with Visas'intro, but I need a tool for mixing the audio tracks (that in the movie is just a puzzle of existing tracks), as I lost the one i used for Visas'

Finally, it would really be great if I could avoid keeping that creepy dead hand I made for Kreia and make a whole model for her, so I'd really appreciate any help in dealing with mdloops.

Kha
02-22-2007, 06:05 AM
Do you think it's possible to import the left hand into that model? I haven't seen the model but what you can do or can't do with the body models depends mostly how the bones are set because we can not edit them, as far as I know. The meshes on the other hand you can do whatever madness you want as long as you find suitable bones on the file to attach them to. So if the model has bones for the hand, even if the mesh is not there, and in the animation file those bones are used, you probably could add the hand without problem.

jinger
02-22-2007, 07:02 AM
Thanks Kha, that's great news, how do I go about this then? The bones are there, and I can borrow the mesh from another model or just mirror her right hand, but I don't know how to attach the mesh to the bones.

Kha
02-22-2007, 08:57 AM
You can make a copy of the hand as a new object, mirror it and attach again to the body model, then add bone weights to the vertices. I can explain it in more detail if you want but I need to know if are using Gmax or 3Dmax, and which model file you are using?

One thing to remember is that mdlops doesn't use smooth groups and some seams on the mesh will be visible, but if you want change the number of vertices of the model is the only way we have.

jinger
02-22-2007, 09:14 AM
I hear Gmax isn't available anymore, I have 3dsmax5 installed right now though. I saw the tutorial on skins, now I think I understand how vertices are bound to bones but it's a major job, can't I just copy/mirror the right hand? When I try, the envelopes somehow drag the vertices over the original, I take it this means they don't get cloned along with the mesh? What can I do about it?

Kha
02-22-2007, 11:03 AM
Well, I have never told it would be easy, actually weighting bones is a frustrating job.

As I said before we can not edit the bones, so it can not be copied/mirrored as the mesh, you will need to separate the bone from the copied mesh, but if I'm not mistaken 3dmax unlike gmax recalculates the weights when you attach the hand to the mesh, you only need to tweak it.

What is the model name? I would like to take a look at it.

jinger
02-22-2007, 11:27 AM
p_kreiaevilbb
Do you think I could tamper with the ascii model and clone that stuff before getting to 3dsmax? I doubt that, but I better take a look at it, that would make it a whole lot easyer.

EDIT: I'm almost there :) I managed to add the left hand but for some reason it floats in the air, and it's bigger. This probably has something to do with the values I copied from the right hand in the ascii model, I just changed the names of the bones to match those in the new hand, it obviously didn't work. I don't understand it though, in 3ds the mesh sticks to the bones if I move them, it follows every movement as it should, in-game it doesn't. What do I do?

DAWUSS
02-22-2007, 05:47 PM
What could work is using the Kreia model that HAS both hands (the Peragus one) and reskin that

jinger
02-23-2007, 12:06 AM
What could work is using the Kreia model that HAS both hands (the Peragus one) and reskin thatAs I said, that model has different animations.

EDIT: Wait a minute… that doesn't matter, I could get the ascii for the left hand from that model. I'll try that… nope.The hand just floats over her head, it responds to movements but not as it should… mmm what could it be… the skin names mean nothing, the bone names are the same as the other model and they do have animations, in 3ds the new hand works just fine, in-game it does not.

I also tried other models, same there. This is what I did, specifically:
Export model A and model B to ascii
Copy mesh X from A to B, setting its parent to the aurora base of model B
Import model B into 3ds, compile, use mdloops to build

Kha
02-23-2007, 07:02 AM
The problem is that some bones are not there:

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kreiahandsha7.jpg

As far as I know the animation are kept in a separated file, not in the model file but the supermodel file, and for both Kreia's models (with hand and handless) it is the same S_Female03, so I would guess both models are capable of doing the animation, but I could be wrong.

However as the bone set are different you can not just get the model with hands and rename as the handless one as it could crash the game, the better way would be changing the model used in the appearance.2da file, but I've never played with cut scene models, don't even know if they use the appearance file at all.

jinger
02-23-2007, 07:14 AM
What bones? I did find bones in the left hand, I don't know id there's all of them but it looks that way (all of those in the ascii of the model with both hands, those in the left hand I mean, are present in the gimped one as well), and they seem to make the mesh move in-game, it's just deformed, I don't know why.
EDIT: Why, you are quite correct, bones are missing, and since we can't add bones nothing can be done.

Thank you anyway Kha

jinger
08-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Sorry for necroposting :xp:
A couple of days ago I gave this another try, and I did it. I uploaded the video on filefront if anyone cares to check it out.

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/file/Fixed_Kreias_Fall_Movie;93256

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Is there a way it could play using the in-game cutscene? It would look a lot better and the cut line could be restored. The only problem I see with playing it using the in-game cutscene is that it is fired from dialog and has to load back the dialog. Would it be possible to make it autosave when it loads the scene, and then load the save when it is done and start the kreia dialog?

BTW great fix.

jinger
08-22-2008, 01:44 PM
That's not the problem. I originally set out to get the whole thing in-game, without the video, but the trouble I had made it convenient to make a video. I frapped the scene without sound, because while some things could barely be heard, others were too loud, and volume settings would change during the scene. In fact I get the feeling they too mixed the audio separately. I used a multitrack audio editor to mix music, voice and sounds; it was fairly easy this way. Furthermore, leaving the scene in-game would lead to possible timing issues, whereas in a video things happen always the same. The trick of making a lightsaber model out of Kreia's missing hand was good enough for a video, but I wouldn't make a mod with it, I'd do it if I could make a whole new model for Kreia, but since the only model I can work with is missing finger bones, I can't do that.

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Why wouldn't it work for the in-game version? The bik video is recorded from it...

jinger
08-22-2008, 07:20 PM
Not exactly. I recorded the scene, then I edited the video with virtualdub to cut off imperfections and mix the audio track which I made separately. I may even rig up the sound effects, and manage to make it all well timed enough, what it really bothers me is that cheap trick of making Kreia wield her hand. Call me crazy. Overall, I think it's best to keep it a video. What I wish now, is that the game could play videos at higher resolutions, but no matter how big is the movie, game will play it at 640x480.

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 07:36 PM
Ok. But would it be possible to make one that has the restored line and send it to me? I would like to use it in TSLCR.

Also the high quality videos in the patch are higher resolution...

jinger
08-22-2008, 07:47 PM
They are bigger, but they play at 640x480, so it really doesn't make any difference.the restored lineThe what?

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 07:54 PM
Ok, the cut line where Kreia says WHY she was cast down.

jinger
08-22-2008, 08:12 PM
"I did not wish to kill you, so they cast me down. Stripped me of my power. Exiled me."
—Kreia

You mean this one? Yes, no problem, I still have the separate audio tracks (music, sounds, voice) it's just a matter of changing that little bit, then mixing the whole thing back together. It will still lack subtitles. If you really care for them, I could record the scene again, but I'm not going to edit all those frames again to correct this:
http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/68/files2/93256_2.jpg

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 08:25 PM
No need for subs. The higher quality video is just fine with out them. But yeah that is the line I meant. And I think the music is too loud when Kreia is talking/crying out in pain. It's hard to hear her.

Also would you happen to know how to adjust the animation for Kreia's hood so that when pulled down it goes down all the way instead of sticking out like cardboard?

ChAiNz.2da
08-22-2008, 08:45 PM
"I did not wish to kill you, so they cast me down. Stripped me of my power. Exiled me."
—Kreia

You mean this one? Yes, no problem, I still have the separate audio tracks (music, sounds, voice) it's just a matter of changing that little bit, then mixing the whole thing back together. It will still lack subtitles. If you really care for them, I could record the scene again, but I'm not going to edit all those frames again to correct this

can't say I blame you.. that cutscene is a :swear: to work on ;)
I was going to include a new movie to reflect the Dark Shroud in my Kreia's Assorted Robe mod and I finally had to ditch it. The 640x480 really messed up all the work I put in it and the dialogue driven cutscene made it flaky. :fist:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=139367&page=6
started at post #217

Beta 1 (http://www.jumpstationz.com/games/mods/KreiaRobes/Kreia-Fall_beta.wmv)
Beta 2 (http://www.jumpstationz.com/games/mods/KreiaRobes/Kreia-Fall_beta2.wmv)

So I decided to include the new EH cutscene instead.. dialogue driven so I could keep my res.

I do like what you've done though.. very nice work! :D

jinger
08-22-2008, 09:06 PM
Thank you ;)how to adjust the animation for Kreia's hoodUse SetLockOrientationInDialog(oKreia,1) before the hood is lifted. That's how I did the scene in the Jedi Enclave. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDbr63GwIVU)music is too loud when Kreia is talking/crying out in painWhen Sion beats her, yes. I already did make her louder than the original movie.

Pikmin
08-22-2008, 09:59 PM
Ok, thanks.