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Bomberman65
02-24-2007, 02:41 AM
Hey guys my friend says SW is going downhill cause of all this fan fiction that is canon and TPM and AotC being badly made. I don't know what he's talking about and with this new game (The Force Unleashed) it'll be even better. What are your thoughts on this??

Johnpp
02-24-2007, 02:43 AM
Well, I heard some where that Gourge Lucas is trying to get rid of every trace of Star Wars. I don't know if it is true. I really don't know though.

BongoBob
02-24-2007, 02:54 AM
I think the actual question is does it really matter? You might not have liked TPM or AotC, but what's been made has been made, and there's no changing that.

Plus, after reading the article in the latest GI about TFU, I can't f***ing wait for it, so I'd say it has some sparks left :p

JoeDoe 2.0
02-24-2007, 03:07 AM
The truth is that SW will never die, some Sw fans are born everyday around the world, and the Force Unleashed game looks totally awesome.

Monkey Mania
02-24-2007, 03:20 AM
Do me a favor and punch your friend in the face. :)

TiE23
02-24-2007, 03:27 AM
Hey guys my friend says SW is going downhill cause of all this fan fiction that is canon and TPM and AotC being badly made.
Yeah, I want to personally rape R. A. Salvatore for his heresy that is Vector Prime. You just don't kill off a main character, it's the unwritten rules of Star Wars, the idea of death other than of old age is against the rules of the SW universe. Even that you shouldn't even give a date. Also, Anakin dies and Jacen turns to the dark side? NJO can blow me.

Plus, I thought the book was poorly written, only had 2 action scenes and lacked detail. X-Wing was a good one, though. I like the part where Corran Horn sticks a pistol under a Storm Trooper's helmet/chin and pulls the trigger, that's real stuff. Also, anyone read the novelizations of the original Star Wars? The opening scene of the movie in the book involves exploded skulls and holes in bodies, blasters hurt, lawl.

*Ends short lived and probably mis-informed rant*

Bomberman65
02-24-2007, 03:38 AM
My friend is begining to like Halo better than SW cause of the whole fan fiction thing and some bad SW games. But I'm torn between SW, Halo, and MGS.

TiE23
02-24-2007, 03:48 AM
But I'm torn between SW, Halo, and MGS.


.... >_>


.... <_<


.... Wait, MGS? You mean Snake? SNAKE? SNAAAAAAAAKE!!! MGS? Don't think I've ever heard of fan fictions for that.

Bomberman65
02-24-2007, 03:59 AM
There is but not many. Those 3 are both great franshises but I don't know which 1 I like better.

Darth Groovy
02-24-2007, 05:02 AM
I think he's full of crap. With the 30th anniversary Star Wars Celebration?! Puhhhleeze.... :roleyess:

Lightsaberboy
02-24-2007, 09:04 AM
EU isn't fanfiction and is only considered canon whenever George Lucas feels it should be.

Pho3nix
02-24-2007, 09:39 AM
I think he's full of crap. With the 30th anniversary Star Wars Celebration?! Puhhhleeze.... :roleyess:

QFT.

Star Wars is never going to die.

Tinny
02-24-2007, 12:35 PM
If you don't like Lucas's new movies or much of the EU stuff then make your own universe with your own canon. Say in my version of StarWars, the original movies and the clone wars cartoons and few duels in the newer movies, and some of the games are canon :).

Black Knight of Keno
02-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Some people like Star Wars while some people are gay, you can't help that. However, I think Lucas did go a bit over the top with the prequels. But you also need to remember Lucas is a visionary who has had these great plans going around his head for decades. The first chance he got of pumping them actually into a movie, he did just that, creating the horrible lovechild Episode I proved out to be even if Maul rocked. You think you can make a thousand times better SW movie than Lucas' prequels? Let's give you the pen to write the story and then make it visible with the unlimited access to any CGI you want. I doubt you could resist the urge to start slamming awful CGI effects her and there. Besides, he's old. It's like my 59 year old dad when he started to understand something about computers. Now he's obsessed with getting everything I find ridiculous on it that he thinks is useful. It's just how old people and new technology mix

Jeff
02-24-2007, 01:44 PM
Star Wars is immortal. The movies are always there and are being exposed to more people every day. Just because something new isn't being released aside from games doesn't mean its dying. And like Groovy said, its SW 30th anniversary, theres due to be something more announced in the star wars department.

BongoBob
02-24-2007, 01:48 PM
Don't forget the 3D clone wars cartoon and the Live action series as well.

Black Knight of Keno
02-24-2007, 01:50 PM
Ooh... About movies never dying. How many of you have seen some of the classics?
I mean The Treasure of Sierra Madre, Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, The Seven Samurai etc.

Now those are some undying movies

Monkey Mania
02-24-2007, 01:50 PM
2007, 30th Anniversary/The Force Unleashed
2008, The Clone Wars Animated TV series
2009, The Live-Action TV series

Star Wars isn't dying anytime soon.

Kjølen
02-24-2007, 04:17 PM
You might not have liked TPM or AotC, but what's been made has been made, and there's no changing that.

Except for ten years from now, when Lucas has the technology to remake them how he had originally envisioned them. :p

Commander Obi-Wan
02-24-2007, 05:57 PM
I mean The Treasure of Sierra Madre, Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, The Seven Samurai etc.

Now those are some undying movies

Never heard of 'em. :p

Hey, I could care less about what people think about Star Wars. That's not going to stop me from watching the upcoming TV series or prevent me from buying or playing the games that are being made currently.

Bomberman65
02-24-2007, 10:28 PM
Yeah what I'm saying is why or why not do you think SW is going downhill?

Mace MacLeod
02-25-2007, 12:44 AM
Yeah, I want to personally rape R. A. Salvatore for his heresy that is Vector Prime.Vector Prime is the Star Wars book that permanently turned me off any of the newer books or series. I have not read a single new SW book since that, and have no plans whatsoever to do so, that's how much I hated it.

And from any reasonable standpoint, Star Wars has been going steadily downhill since 1980, but it's still better than 90% of the light sci-fi entertainment that's out there, idiotic Yuzhaan Vong novels and Jar Jar Binks excepted.

BongoBob
02-25-2007, 01:37 AM
Except for ten years from now, when Lucas has the technology to remake them how he had originally envisioned them. :p

I knew someone was going to say something along the lines of that :p

Prime
02-28-2007, 02:27 PM
Just tell me when SW is "dead" and I will be adjust my personal preferences accordingly.

Johnpp
02-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Star wars won't die. End of story.

Coza1000000
02-28-2007, 11:15 PM
I am pissed by what people are saying about Star Wars dying and the next person i hear someone say Star Wars is dying i will stick my double bladed red light saber up the you know what! And i don't mean rudely!

[Theres always a bigger fish]-Qui-Gon Jinn

Det. Bart Lasiter
02-28-2007, 11:21 PM
I bet some people here would pay good money for that sort of thing.

BongoBob
02-28-2007, 11:57 PM
I bet there's /34/ of it.

Windu Chi
03-01-2007, 10:21 AM
Hey guys my friend says SW is going downhill cause of all this fan fiction that is canon and TPM and AotC being badly made. I don't know what he's talking about and with this new game (The Force Unleashed) it'll be even better. What are your thoughts on this??
Going downhill my ass!
Your friend is sadly mistaken, when the Star Wars TV series hit the airways, it will crush any competitors, with the power of Force Crush.

El Sitherino
03-01-2007, 10:51 AM
Sounds to me like your friend has a drug problem.

acdcfanbill
03-01-2007, 12:49 PM
It's all been downhill after Han shot second :(

Spider AL
03-01-2007, 01:46 PM
Some people seem to be equating "is Star Wars going downhill?" which was the original question, with "is Star Wars dying/dead?" which is a completely different question.

Well very very few major franchises ever "die", in that there will always be at least SOME people making up a cult following for the franchise. So no, Star Wars is in no danger of "dying" just yet. Obviously not. Not even up for debate.

But is Star Wars going downhill? Well that's a more applicable, more interesting question.

In terms of the movies, well, the prequels were obviously all of a lower quality than ANY the original trilogy. In areas of drama, dialogue, plot and direction the prequels all suffered. Too many bells and whistles, not enough meat. So for live action SW, you could say that it has "gone downhill". And there's no reason to suspect that further live-action productions- TV miniseries or otherwise- wouldn't suffer the same flaws. Too many effects, too much mindless action, not enough heart and not enough of a brain.

As for games... I don't think that there has been a really inspired Star Wars game for some time. JO was good, JA was much of a muchness... KotOR was okay, for an EU history piece, but the sequel didn't fare so well. Frankly there's been nothing really world-beating for some time. And those games that have been GOOD, haven't had the level of corporate support necessary to turn them into TRULY influential pieces of digital entertainment.

As for literature... the quality has never been very high. I think I've enjoyed about three or four EU novels over the years, and even then I didn't rate them very highly as pieces of literature. Comics... pretty rubbish all in all.

The trouble is that Star Wars going downhill was almost an inevitability. As acdc states above, ever since Lucas started to make all his wierd changes to the OT back in the nineties, it's been obvious that Star Wars would probably end up as just another Star Trek-esque franchise, with multiple mediocre moneymaking schemes popping out of the woodwork, all relying largely on the Star Wars brand to sell the title.

Slap SW on the box, and you KNOW they'll buy it. Sadly, that means that quality isn't as important as it used to be.

Black Knight of Keno
03-01-2007, 02:17 PM
Lucas has said that the live-action TV series will be much more concentrated on the plot than the prequel trilogy, so I hope he can still redeem the SW merchandise. Besides, it seems most people whine about the prequels bcause they have a lot of action in them. Well, they're supposed to have massive battles, taking that they take place during a war with two strong sides rather than the guerilla war waged in the originals. But I do agree that Lucas should've left the original trilogy alone even if some of the CGI are a bit more nifty-looking than they originally were

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-01-2007, 02:39 PM
I bet there's /34/ of it.
Yeah I have it. I believe it's Aayla Secura or whatever her name is.

PoiuyWired
03-01-2007, 03:25 PM
I bet there's /34/ of it.
Yes there is, and even Mission Vao ones.

Well, I would have to say that over the years there are many changes, some are good while some are bad. Well that happens in every Fantasy world with continuity.

Sure, JarJar is a bit annoying, and we definitely hate how chewie end up(you are banned from star wars fandom if you like that) and most of us would prefer han shooting first, but there are good things. I mean, the clone wars EU is doing quite nice really, an there is a definite degree of seriousness seen in newer comics and even clone wars animation(before that its droids/ewoks)

While some might hate the Vongs it is an attempt to include different lifeforms and styles in the galaxy far far away, and it is still better than the cliche idea of Zergs/Tyranids/Aliens. The old republic stuff are nice, and the legacy series is not bad either, especially the comic series. Though I am tired of the random retcon, WTF is happening with the deathstar plans? Now we have like 242342 (5 actually) different people succeeding in stealing it, excuse me?

For games we have some really crappy ones over the years, but also some nice ones, and we can see that in this forum. Hack, even SWG was once really good.

Well, I would not say Star Wars is losing steam, but it is quite true that OTHER POWERS are rising, and Star Wars is no longer one of the only few established fantasy worlds. There are things like Hairy Potter and a revitalization of LotR due to the movies, and things like discworld seems to be growing. Hack with Anime there are a few big popular continuty coming, things like UC & CE gundam and what not.

And actually it may be a good thing, since it seems that generally the quality of EU stuff is getting better.

PS: jmac7142 is a /b/tard DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU ?

Kjølen
03-01-2007, 03:47 PM
Some people seem to be equating "is Star Wars going downhill?" which was the original question, with "is Star Wars dying/dead?" which is a completely different question.

Yes, exactly. Think of it as a simple supply and demand curve. Demand is downward sloping and supply is upward sloping. "Star Wars is going downhill" is equivalent to the demand curve, while "Is Star Wars dying?" is equivalent to the supply curve. The demand is falling, because "Star Wars is going downhill". However, Lucas is increasing the supply of Star Wars stuff, ensuring that Star Wars will never die. It's contrary to normal entrepreneurship to increase supply when demand falls, but Lucas does it anyway.

BongoBob
03-01-2007, 06:52 PM
JO was good, JA was much of a muchness... KotOR was okay, for an EU history piece, but the sequel didn't fare so well. Frankly there's been nothing really world-beating for some time. And those games that have been GOOD, haven't had the level of corporate support necessary to turn them into TRULY influential pieces of digital entertainment.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. For it's time, JKII was awsome. JKA, while good, just seemed like an expansion pack though. But where I really disagree, was KorOR being "okay." KotOR is quite easily one of the best Star Wars games ever made. Bar none. It put players into a time period not explored by many fans. It had beautiful graphics for the time. But even better, it showed that video games can be story driven. And to be perfectly honest, it had one of the best plot twists since "I am your father." When that moment occured in game, my draw literally dropped. It was simply an amazing game and definately one of the finest ever in my mind, and in many others. Unfortunately, Lucasarts got greedy with KotOR II and instead of letting Obsidian finish it, rushed out a broken version to shelves in time for christmas. Another half a year of development, and I have no doubt in my mind that KotOR II would have been just as good as the first.

Yeah I have it. I believe it's Aayla Secura or whatever her name is.

No, I meant the whole sticking the saber where the sun don't shine thing. There's got to be /34/ of that specific situation : p

PS: jmac7142 is a /b/tard DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU DESU ?

Yeah, I hate you because of that right there :p

F*** Desu (except for /i/nvasions).

Spider AL
03-01-2007, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Black Knight of Keno:

Lucas has said that the live-action TV series will be much more concentrated on the plot than the prequel trilogy, so I hope he can still redeem the SW merchandise.Lucas has said a lot of things, Keno. He promised a lot of things about the prequels, and we all know how they turned out. There's no reason to believe what he promises about the TV series now. That's because the best way to predict future behaviour... is to look at past behaviour.

Frankly I suspect that the best thing that could happen for Star Wars would be for Georgie and all his gaggle of yes-men to move to Alaska and sever all contact with Lucasfilm. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I join you in HOPING that live-action Star Wars is redeemed in the future... but do I EXPECT it to be redeemed? No. I expect it to go further downhill in terms of quality.

Originally posted by Black Knight of Keno:

Besides, it seems most people whine about the prequels bcause they have a lot of action in them.People often criticise (not "whine about") the prequels because they have a lot of mindless action in them, Keno. Action's great, unless it's mindless and meaningless. Action is supposed to serve a plot, it's supposed to have emotional resonance. But in the prequels, the characters were so two-dimensional that when they started spinning their lightsabres around like maniacal glowstick-wielding ravers on speed... it meant nothing. It meant nothing dramatically, it meant nothing emotionally.

In addition, people criticise the prequels for having poor plotting, poor dialogue and poor direction. And rightly so, on all counts. If that's not "downhill" from the heights set by the OT... I don't know what is.

-

Originally posted by PoiuyWired:

Sure, JarJar is a bit annoyingThat's like saying "having your head cut off is a bit fatal."

Originally posted by PoiuyWired:

I mean, the clone wars EU is doing quite nice really, an there is a definite degree of seriousness seen in newer comics and even clone wars animation(before that its droids/ewoks)I quite liked Genndy's SW cartoon, I did. I liked Samurai Jack too, by the way. In fact, I thought that 'Clone Wars' was on the whole more watchable than the prequel trilogy. Shame it had to try to fit in with Lucas' prequel canon, isn't it.

However, I think that the 3d modelled version Lucas intends to produce without Tartakovsky's involvement is a bad idea, and very much fits in with the "downhill" trend for Star Wars quality.

I don't think that the comics are significantly better these days than they used to be, at least, judging by the few old republic monstrosities I've flicked through and not bought recently. And as for any stuff dealing with pre/post-RotS... Suffice it to say that any story that has to fit in with the RIDICULOUSLY childish prequel story-canon is doomed to mediocrity before it begins.

Originally posted by PoiuyWired:

While some might hate the Vongs it is an attempt to include different lifeforms and styles in the galaxy far far away, and it is still better than the cliche idea of Zergs/Tyranids/Aliens.Oh I for one have nothing against the idea of including new species, specifically... I have something against bad writing though.

-

Originally posted by Kjølen:

The demand is falling, because "Star Wars is going downhill". However, Lucas is increasing the supply of Star Wars stuff, ensuring that Star Wars will never die. It's contrary to normal entrepreneurship to increase supply when demand falls, but Lucas does it anyway.Good point, well made.

-

Originally posted by BongoBob:

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. For it's time, JKII was awsome.Mm, I don't use words like "awesome" very often. JO was good, and that goodness makes it one of my all time top-ten favourites. Enough said on that score.

Originally posted by BongoBob:

But even better, it [KotOR] showed that video games can be story driven.The best games have always been story driven, Bongo. KotOR wasn't the first and it won't be the last, thus it didn't "show" anything of the sort. The fact was already proven.

It was a good game, I'm sure... but not truly revolutionary. Star Wars games never have been.

Originally posted by BongoBob:

But where I really disagree, was KorOR being "okay." KotOR is quite easily one of the best Star Wars games ever made. Bar none.Sure, if you like modern RPGs and you like Old Republic EU. I don't like either. But that's a matter of personal preference. The important fact is, you agree with me that the KotOR sequel wasn't up to the standard of the first installment, and this was due to a lack of corporate support for the project. Corporate greed, in fact.

Downhill, once again.

BongoBob
03-02-2007, 09:51 AM
The best games have always been story driven, Bongo. KotOR wasn't the first and it won't be the last, thus it didn't "show" anything of the sort. The fact was already proven.

It was a good game, I'm sure... but not truly revolutionary. Star Wars games never have been.

Sure, if you like modern RPGs and you like Old Republic EU. I don't like either. But that's a matter of personal preference. The important fact is, you agree with me that the KotOR sequel wasn't up to the standard of the first installment, and this was due to a lack of corporate support for the project. Corporate greed, in fact.

Well I had never really played a game as cinematic as KotOR. But even still, you have to admit it was all pretty fresh. The way they masked the dice rolling elements behind the engine, the different paths you could take, you choosing your own dialogue, I had never seen any of that in a game before. So maybe it wasn't "Revolutionary." I never said it was "Revolutionary." What you said was that it was simply "okay," whereas it's more than simply "okay," it was a fantastic video game experience.

Black Knight of Keno
03-02-2007, 10:29 AM
Lucas has said a lot of things, Keno. He promised a lot of things about the prequels, and we all know how they turned out. There's no reason to believe what he promises about the TV series now. That's because the best way to predict future behaviour... is to look at past behaviour.

Frankly I suspect that the best thing that could happen for Star Wars would be for Georgie and all his gaggle of yes-men to move to Alaska and sever all contact with Lucasfilm. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I join you in HOPING that live-action Star Wars is redeemed in the future... but do I EXPECT it to be redeemed? No. I expect it to go further downhill in terms of quality.
Well, taking the jedi have gone into hiding and the live-action show is about the Great Jedi Purge, you would expect much less actual fighting. Babbling about how the Rebel Alliance was formed and probably tying some loose ends with characters. The only action would be that Vader or the 501st find Jedi, slaughter them and leave. At least that's what I hope, even if I love the sound of a lightsaber cutting throught Stormtrooper armor

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-02-2007, 01:17 PM
No, I meant the whole sticking the saber where the sun don't shine thing. There's got to be /34/ of that specific situation : p
No, I knew what you were talking about.

TiE23
03-02-2007, 02:37 PM
I've got the pre-1999 Star Wars Universe Encyclopedia in my closet (the hard cover, not that sweet-assed paperback I used to read in 6th grade)... I got it a few years ago used for $15. And there is nothing worse than the first EU entries after the original trilogy's release. In the 1980s most of the EU stuff was polluting.

*Takes book in hand and flips to a random page.*

Who the **** is Tig Fromm? Oh... wait, he's got a Wookieepedia entry...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tig_Fromm

I suggest you go around Wookieepedia, it's a great time waster.


Yeah, freakin' lame- the golden era was not the 1980s. In my opinion, the high-lights were Shadows of the Empire (I have it but I haven't read it yet), the X-Wing series, and I have to include it because I read 80% of the series in 5th grade: Young Jedi Knights.

So like... yeah...

Prime
03-02-2007, 03:27 PM
I actually liked the Droids cartoon back in the day.