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View Full Version : I can't help you in coding but I have some ideas.


Blarknoroth
03-10-2007, 09:08 AM
Hello! I have been watching for OJP since a long time and seriously I find it great! But,however, I think there are still some disturbing things to me :/.

First, I have some questions about the betas : 1/ Why did you remove all light Force powers (like protect and Mind trick healing doesn't matter for me)
and leave only absorb( I don't really understand how does it works)?
2/ Why did you remove some weapons like distruptor and stooker?

JRHockney*
03-10-2007, 02:01 PM
Hello! I have been watching for OJP since a long time and seriously I find it great! But,however, I think there are still some disturbing things to me :/.

First, I have some questions about the betas : 1/ Why did you remove all light Force powers (like protect and Mind trick healing doesn't matter for me)
and leave only absorb( I don't really understand how does it works)?
2/ Why did you remove some weapons like distruptor and stooker?

I'm glad you like it, we're always happy to hear ideas. Man I'm starting to wonder how many secret fans we have that haven't posted yet. Its always great to have more encourage ment for our work since we dont get much.

Hehe, I'm still contemplating the removal of the forcepowers LOL :p The long and the short of it is that we wanted to change the existing force powers to make them movie realistic, but the powers like drain, protection, heal, etc. had no movie basis and we couldn't think of a good way to make them movielike. I was personally in favor of keeping them in until we came up with new ideas for them so we wouldnt lose options, but they still got taken out because we were sure we'd agree on something...no such luck :p

As far as the disruptor and the others, we've had to manually add any new weapons to the skill menu and we haven't gotten around to them. Although at the moment, we are only planning to add two more weapons to the skill menu: the disruptor (which will be turned into the modified JKA sniper rifle) and the repeator (which will become Pahricidas clone rifle). The other weapons just arent movie realistic and would be too unbalancing in favor of the gunners at least until create some kind of weapon availability skill progression, which we may or may not. I've tried to add the repeater and the disruptor into my code, but I've had some rediculous issues and razor will probably have to figure it out.

Blarknoroth
03-10-2007, 09:11 PM
ok I understand.
- In my opinion Protect should be like in FMIII. I mean the player should put his hand in front of him and block the shots like does Vader in Ep V and why not to deflect the flames(this is not in FMIII) too like obi wan does in one of the CloneWars cartoon episodes. And Mind trick has movie basis :) but how to improve it i don't know :(. Then, I still think we don't jump high enough you should maybe do like in MBII(for jump but also for push, pull and grip---> I mean removing the pulling/pushing/grip effects)
-I don't like losing force when swinging because when I want to jump then I can't even swing after.
-Could you add Forms that have been forgotten like Ataru, Niman,Jar'kai?

mark2000
03-11-2007, 04:57 AM
I don't like losing force when swinging because when I want to jump then I can't even swing after.

I was actually wondering about this too. I don't really have the same problem with it as Blarknoroth though. My problem is that after you deplete your opponent's dodge meter, you still have to deal with his health/shield meter, which is quite awkward since lightsabers are 1-2 hit kill weapons.

What I propose is to replace the Health meter with the Dodge meter and have the former Dodge meter become a sort of "Stamina" or "Attack" meter that limits how many times you can swing your weapon properly instead of using the Force meter to do it. When the Dodge Meter is depleted, every shot/slash will be fatal.

I also have a suggestion on the Force Point gain System during games. Why not give atleast 1 force point to someone when he gets killed instead of nothing? This way,even if he keeps getting killed, he may still be able to cope up with the other players since he isn't stuck at the same level (number of dodge points etc.) throughout the game.

Maxstate
03-11-2007, 05:58 AM
The Dodge meter is how much dodge and concentration you have left to defend yourself or dodge a projectile or saber. YOu lose FP when you slash because FP serves as your endurance and stamina and it decreases whenever you perform daunting physical and mental tasks like jumping 30 feet in the air or swinging a lightsaber around.
If you don't think that swinging a lightsaber around warrants loss of endurance then you should grab a stick, go outside and swing it around. You'll be huffing and puffing like mad.

The shield and health meters are important for anti gunner combat, what you deal with when you deplete the dodge meter is leftover dodge that recharges in the instances that you're not attacking your opponent.

I'm against giving players that die anything because of many reasons. Your reason provokes them to just /kill or jump down pits as much as they can before going into battle, that sucks.

Adding new forms is hard and noone is really up for doing it, although I've tried my best to make our saber styles look and feel closer to the forms without being totally unoriginal. We have Jar'kai, Jar'kai = dual sabers, ataru is in my next anims (at the sake of soresu though) and niman == shi choo.

I am also against removing the Force power GFX from JKA, it's the only thing that's still really considered eye candy in this game and removing it would leave it very bland.

Listen, guys. I know how you're thinking because I was in the same ordeal. I was silly enough to come here still pumped with MBII ideas and I also treated OJP like MBII, I wanted it to be more like MBII. Imagine MB without the wise-ass community and the internet:serious business devs? Time passed and I began to learn that OJP IS NOT MBII, it is a completely different game with it's own system that I prefer much much more than anything MBII could churn out.

I do however still agree that certain things have been set as a standard by MBII and should adhered everywhere. Their walking speed, strafing speed makes the game a lot more strategic, their jump height takes away the need for multiple jumps (== FP Drainage) for Jedi when they want to reach a safe place or their flying enemy as another example.

I am not against this because these are things that make JKA steer clear of Quake3, and I like that.

Blarknoroth
03-11-2007, 07:23 AM
It's true that the loss of Force in swinging would add a realistic effect but from my point of view we lose it too fast so I propose to improve the force limit(100>200 or maybe more)

For the ataru style, they say on wikipedia that it is a form which uses acrobatics( like does yoda in the movies)
Btw the way , how do you find my ideas about protect ?
And do you have an idea for the improvement of Mind trick?

Maxstate
03-11-2007, 08:32 AM
I agree to adding some points to the Force pool or maybe have it recharge faster for the sake of usefulness, but we'll have to find a good balance solution because the idea might make Jedi overpowered vs gunners.

I think protect should become the buyable auto-push for projectiles we have now :) Currently you just push back rockets and other stuff if they're shot at you and you're facing them, I hope that we can arrange it so that pushing back rockets automatically will require protect 3, while protect 2 would serve for pushing back thermals and protect 1 could be lightsaber dodging. (Sense 1 = projectile and normal dodging)

Mindtrick I think should either clone the user on the aimed spot, or should work like it did. Meaning low Force/DP/high mishap = vulnerable.

Blarknoroth
03-11-2007, 10:13 AM
Good idea for mind trick! In fact this power should be used for distractions(I remember Obi wan mind tricking stormies in ANH I think he made them hearing a noise)

as for protect its a good thing. Pushing rockets as soon as they arrive on you is good.
Plus rockets are very fast. But T think it would be nice to add the shot parries with the hand like I said, to push ; it would do that :

level 1 : only able to push people
level 2 : able to push people and able to parry one shot but lose all the force
level 3 : push people and parry few shots( if the player parries to much he loses all his Force)

At level 3 the player should be able to parry at least 3 or 5 shots

Do you think it would be nice to add the power to make items fly or making them move ? I mean like does luke in Ep V on his x-wing or dooku and yoda in the geonosis hanger. This power would be able to destroy things with the force or move them.

Maxstate
03-11-2007, 12:32 PM
Good idea for mind trick! In fact this power should be used for distractions(I remember Obi wan mind tricking stormies in ANH I think he made them hearing a noise)

as for protect its a good thing. Pushing rockets as soon as they arrive on you is good.
Plus rockets are very fast. But T think it would be nice to add the shot parries with the hand like I said, to push ; it would do that :

Yeah


level 1 : only able to push people
level 2 : able to push people and able to parry one shot but lose all the force
level 3 : push people and parry few shots( if the player parries to much he loses all his Force)

At level 3 the player should be able to parry at least 3 or 5 shots

Do you think it would be nice to add the power to make items fly or making them move ? I mean like does luke in Ep V on his x-wing or dooku and yoda in the geonosis hanger. This power would be able to destroy things with the force or move them.

Too hard/limited coders.

JRHockney*
03-11-2007, 10:52 PM
It's true that the loss of Force in swinging would add a realistic effect but from my point of view we lose it too fast so I propose to improve the force limit(100>200 or maybe more)

For the ataru style, they say on wikipedia that it is a form which uses acrobatics( like does yoda in the movies)


If you think you lose it too fast, increase the g_forceregentime to a desirable level. I have mine set to 350. It stilll makes you run out if you swingspam too much or jump high or use force power alot. The swing draining fp is there to mainly help keep people on the ground so they have to becareful about how much they jump around (unlike base JKA where you jump around like magical acrobats who are too afraid to block anything :p). You can still create your own aturu style by using backflips, cart wheels and yellow dfas. We purposely made those cost alot less then normal jumping so aturu would be possible.

as for protect its a good thing. Pushing rockets as soon as they arrive on you is good.
Plus rockets are very fast. But T think it would be nice to add the shot parries with the hand like I said, to push ; it would do that :

level 1 : only able to push people
level 2 : able to push people and able to parry one shot but lose all the force
level 3 : push people and parry few shots( if the player parries to much he loses all his Force)

At level 3 the player should be able to parry at least 3 or 5 shots

thats not a bad idea. I'd say level one would be pushing rockets and dets in random directions, level two would be accurate pushing of those plus those ideas you had above as well as for level 3. I'd say no more than 3 shots for level 3 and only in melee.

Do you think it would be nice to add the power to make items fly or making them move ? I mean like does luke in Ep V on his x-wing or dooku and yoda in the geonosis hanger. This power would be able to destroy things with the force or move them.


Yeah that would be ALOT of work. The Quake 3 engine isn't really set up for it although its possible (compared to the halflife 2 engine), you'd need to make maps that have alot more movable items, and it would take too much time and resources from coders who are actually good enough to do it (mainly razor or ensiform).

Mindtrick I think should either clone the user on the aimed spot

interesting idea, but I don't want to be the one to try and code that!! LOL :p I hardly even understand the aiming bolt reflect code.

mark2000
03-12-2007, 08:18 AM
I agree to adding some points to the Force pool or maybe have it recharge faster for the sake of usefulness, but we'll have to find a good balance solution because the idea might make Jedi overpowered vs gunners.

If you're regarding FP as your Physical/Mental Stamina and the usage of Force powers as a consumption of your mental stamina instead of using some energy stored inside of you (aka "chakra", lol...Naruto :p), then it's probably quite logical. But i don't think Jedi don't get instantly exhausted from doing a single Lvl.3 force jump. I agree with simply increasing the total FP. Maybe just make the FP usage of Lvl.3 Force Jump as a guideline. How about increasing FP to a point that a single Lvl.3 jump would only decrease 1/4 to 1/5 of your FP.

'm against giving players that die anything because of many reasons. Your reason provokes them to just /kill or jump down pits as much as they can before going into battle, that sucks.

then just give them points when somebody actually kills them. That way, they get points but still contribute to the Frags of their opponent. After all, the only purpose of this idea is to prevent the little guys from getting overpowered too much during the later phases of a game. If you're only gonna get points by actually getting killed by someone, then there's no point in abusing it since your just helping the other guy win the entire game.

Yeah that would be ALOT of work. The Quake 3 engine isn't really set up for it although its possible (compared to the halflife 2 engine), you'd need to make maps that have alot more movable items, and it would take too much time and resources from coders who are actually good enough to do it (mainly razor or ensiform).

How about simply editing Force Choke to also be able to hold objects instead of just people. Although that may seem abit retarded since you don't really need the darkside just to make something float. Never mind. Bad idea. >_>

If you think you lose it too fast, increase the g_forceregentime to a desirable level. I have mine set to 350.

sweet. Anymore console codes that could help me out? Preferably to increase my Max DP? ...and probably also help me to the nearest Complete SP/MP Console Codes List. :D

Mantis01
03-12-2007, 08:54 AM
Listen, guys. I know how you're thinking because I was in the same ordeal. I was silly enough to come here still pumped with MBII ideas and I also treated OJP like MBII, I wanted it to be more like MBII. Imagine MB without the wise-ass community and the internet:serious business devs? Time passed and I began to learn that OJP IS NOT MBII, it is a completely different game with it's own system that I prefer much much more than anything MBII could churn out.

I do however still agree that certain things have been set as a standard by MBII and should adhered everywhere. Their walking speed, strafing speed makes the game a lot more strategic, their jump height takes away the need for multiple jumps (== FP Drainage) for Jedi when they want to reach a safe place or their flying enemy as another example.

I am not against this because these are things that make JKA steer clear of Quake3, and I like that.

I almost agree.OJP does not limit gametype that is not like MB2.
OJP pursues more exciting saber combat, realistic combat like movie, and but better balancing combat system.
This is a very big merit, and we have more freedom like original JKA (FFA, Duel, CTF, Siege etc.).
MB2 is nice Mod, but OJP should not have all same concept.

razorace
03-12-2007, 04:59 PM
How about increasing FP to a point that a single Lvl.3 jump would only decrease 1/4 to 1/5 of your FP.
Good point. Write a bug ticket (as a task) for that.
then just give them points when somebody actually kills them. That way, they get points but still contribute to the Frags of their opponent. After all, the only purpose of this idea is to prevent the little guys from getting overpowered too much during the later phases of a game. If you're only gonna get points by actually getting killed by someone, then there's no point in abusing it since your just helping the other guy win the entire game.
mmm, I don't really see the point. Skill advancement should be based on actual skill. And possibly based on time in the game. As for game fairness, I still want to make the player score based on the the skill level of the players you hurt/kill.

Blarknoroth
03-12-2007, 05:34 PM
And when someone tries to kill us in the back? You could make an anim that would parry this back attack.

And about the stances, except the makashi's and juyo's ones, I don't like them. But I have an idea :
I dunno if it is possible but i've thought that, according to the direction we're going to, we make the stance change. examples:- juyo/vaapad style : as a ready and forward(ready and forward stances for left and right moves and for all styles) move stance, we put the actual beta juyo's stance but when we go backward we put the ancient juyo's stance (I mean the one when he put his hand in front of him and his saber back his head)
-makashi style : actual beta's stance as a ready and forward moves and ancient betas' makashi stance when we go backward
i'll make screen ti make it clear with all others styles

JRHockney*
03-12-2007, 07:07 PM
And when someone tries to kill us in the back? You could make an anim that would parry this back attack.

And about the stances, except the makashi's and juyo's ones, I don't like them. But I have an idea :
I dunno if it is possible but i've thought that, according to the direction we're going to, we make the stance change. examples:- juyo/vaapad style : as a ready and forward(ready and forward stances for left and right moves and for all styles) move stance, we put the actual beta juyo's stance but when we go backward we put the ancient juyo's stance (I mean the one when he put his hand in front of him and his saber back his head)
-makashi style : actual beta's stance as a ready and forward moves and ancient betas' makashi stance when we go backward
i'll make screen ti make it clear with all others styles

We can't make new anims because we dont have a an animator. Max just does replacements for the most part and his replacements that he made for his anim pack are mostly based on tercees anim replacement pack for FM3. THe most we can hope for is to get a good dragon animator to help us or have max find some good replacement anims. Keshire hasn't done any animation work for OJP in ages and he's busy with MB2 anyways.

Wildebeest
03-13-2007, 02:03 AM
I'm glad you like it, we're always happy to hear ideas. Man I'm starting to wonder how many secret fans we have that haven't posted yet. Its always great to have more encouragement for our work since we dont get much.

I love you guys. I just apparently have horrendous timing on when I play, because all of the servers seem to be bot-only when I'm on. (Late at night PST).

Seriously, OJP is so far ahead of other mods in the technical arena. As a coder, you guys just blow me away.

And with that bit of encouragement :heart3: , I'm off to lurking again. :ninja2:

Maxstate
03-13-2007, 04:34 AM
I love you guys. I just apparently have horrendous timing on when I play, because all of the servers seem to be bot-only when I'm on. (Late at night PST).

Seriously, OJP is so far ahead of other mods in the technical arena. As a coder, you guys just blow me away.

And with that bit of encouragement :heart3: , I'm off to lurking again. :ninja2:
Nooooo don't lurk again, we need all the support we can get :p

I wanted to note that playing with less than 80 DP makes saberfighting a bit random so watch out when you're dueling with your custom cvars. Maybe also a jab in Hocks' direction: Should we double the innate amount of DP Jedi have and increase weapons' usefulness based on that? That they can hit the jedi more but the jedi can also endure more?
Also, we need some way to kill off Jedi quickly, but not something that can be spammed, maybe a power attack to the back would instakill?

razorace
03-13-2007, 04:13 PM
I wanted to note that playing with less than 80 DP makes saberfighting a bit random so watch out when you're dueling with your custom cvars. Maybe also a jab in Hocks' direction: Should we double the innate amount of DP Jedi have and increase weapons' usefulness based on that? That they can hit the jedi more but the jedi can also endure more?
So the min DP would be 100 or the amount of DP you get per skill point would be higher?
Also, we need some way to kill off Jedi quickly, but not something that can be spammed, maybe a power attack to the back would instakill?
hehe, that's the trick isn't it. :)

Maybe a jedi's ability to block bolts should have an amount of time between blocks. IE, landing two hits quickly would force the jedi to body dodge instead of deflecting iwth the saber. As for the mercs, an accuracy system would make it difficult (realistically) to land two bolts accurately.

JRHockney*
03-13-2007, 06:38 PM
hehe, that's the trick isn't it.

Maybe a jedi's ability to block bolts should have an amount of time between blocks. IE, landing two hits quickly would force the jedi to body dodge instead of deflecting iwth the saber. As for the mercs, an accuracy system would make it difficult (realistically) to land two bolts accurately.

Thats a really good idea I think, but I think the interval should be quicker if your walking and little or none if you're standing still.

razorace
03-14-2007, 03:00 PM
We'll have to add the gun accuracy system to make it fair, but I think it's doable.

Task ticket it if you have the time. Unfortunately, I'm still too busy with household tasks and work to really document/work on stuff at the moment.

mark2000
03-15-2007, 07:38 PM
Good point. Write a bug ticket (as a task) for that

ok. will do.

JRHockney*
03-15-2007, 07:41 PM
ok. will do.

I already did actually :p

mark2000
03-15-2007, 07:45 PM
oh good. I suddenly got Mental Block the moment I looked at that trac thingy actually.....:sweat:

HamstrYODA
03-16-2007, 05:09 AM
I have one (helpful?) idea.
Since there doesn't seem to be servers running (which is pitty, this mod deserves them). I think people are running their own server (playing with friend(s) and/or bots). So, my suggestion is to make OJP own hamachi channel. This way you could quickly and easily find out if someone is running a server and you could join his/her server. now neither of you must fight against bots :).

I actually decided to start one if anyone is interested:
name: Open Jedi Project
pass: Open Jedi Project

If someone doesn't know what hamachi is, i can tell quickly that it is program which creates P2P lan network between users. more info and downloads: http://www.hamachi.cc

UDM
03-16-2007, 07:01 AM
So it's like Xfire? Looks good! Unfortunately, beta is still pretty unstable now. I'll try to get some of the stuff that I have in mind up and running, then once we release v1...let the party begin :)

HamstrYODA
03-16-2007, 07:15 AM
i wouldn't compare it with xfire. idea of hamachi is that you, and your friends join to hamachi channel. Now one of you starts the server, then other one can find the server under Lan servers.

Lets say that there are 8 people in hamachi channel. someone wants to play OJP but there is no public servers. so he starts playing against bots in his own server. Same time another person who also wants to play OJP has the same problem, no public server. Now, instead of starting his/her own server and play against bots, he can first look if there is any one running server by someone using hamachi. He finds the server under Lan games. Now those two people can play in same game, not alone against bots.

I hope I made myself clear enough to understand.

razorace
03-16-2007, 02:32 PM
It's an interesting idea. But, I should point out that the MeatGrinder is normally available 24/7 with OJP Enhanced. Unfortunately, it's been down for a while but I plan on working on that this weekend.

HamstrYODA
03-16-2007, 03:41 PM
European players would most likely have better connection (at least when there are only few players) with hamachi than they get when playing on server located on the other side of atlantic.