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razorace
04-04-2007, 12:54 AM
I'm starting a new thread dedicated to the discussion of gameplay issues that come up during playtesting.

Here's what I got from tonight's playtesting:
1. Jedi vs Gunners is WAY more fair now in 009t. Gunners at least stand a chance now.
2. Now that gunners seem more fair now, I think we need to consider scaling down the point values for a lot of the skills. Namely, I think we need to decrease the cost of the lower ranks of the "beginner skills" and then move the minimum skill points down so players can't really get the "better" skills right off the bat.
3. Blob needs to be nerfed in some way. It's just too powerful vs Jedi. Personally, I think we should pull it, but I know that a lot of people want it in.

Also, I had an idea on how to improve our playtesting process. How about I make a list of all the beta testers (with their contact IMs), and then post it on the forums? That way people can get in contact with each other as quickly as possible and start up ad-hoc games. What do you guys think?

JRHockney*
04-04-2007, 02:56 AM
1. Jedi vs Gunners is WAY more fair now in 009t. Gunners at least stand a chance now.

Pure gunners, yes, but hybrid gunners still seem to rule everything once they get enough points. Something really needs to be done about this, and I'm not sure what given the direction of our mod. I'd say something like not being abe to have access to all the force levels or even certain gun levels either perminantly, or until they reach a certain amount of points. Honestly, that DP drain thing I had before helped alot.

2. Now that gunners seem more fair now, I think we need to consider scaling down the point values for a lot of the skills. Namely, I think we need to decrease the cost of the lower ranks of the "beginner skills" and then move the minimum skill points down so players can't really get the "better" skills right off the bat.

this makes me a bit nervious, but I'm not sure why. I'm too tired. :p

3. Blob needs to be nerfed in some way. It's just too powerful vs Jedi. Personally, I think we should pull it, but I know that a lot of people want it in.



I'd say decrease the radius of the blast by ALOT, add a cool down time, and/or make the block cost alot more ammo.

Also, I had an idea on how to improve our playtesting process. How about I make a list of all the beta testers (with their contact IMs), and then post it on the forums? That way people can get in contact with each other as quickly as possible and start up ad-hoc games. What do you guys think?

maybe, but is it really wise to post all our IM addresses somewhere public?

Maxstate
04-04-2007, 03:43 AM
maybe, but is it really wise to post all our IM addresses somewhere public?
I posted mine multiple times :p

razorace
04-04-2007, 02:42 PM
Pure gunners, yes, but hybrid gunners still seem to rule everything once they get enough points.
With absorb or the offensive powers?
I'd say decrease the radius of the blast by ALOT, add a cool down time, and/or make the block cost alot more ammo.
That sounds like a good idea. I'm mainly worried about using it at point blank range. I could also make sure that the
maybe, but is it really wise to post all our IM addresses somewhere public?
Technically everyone who has contributed to the project already has a contact email that is freely listed on the repository, which is where I'd store the list.

Plus, I don't think listing someone's public MSN address is a horrible thing anyway. It's not like there's a lot of spam there. It is a consideration thou. That's why I asked. :)

bjusterbaarlik
04-04-2007, 03:32 PM
Personally, I would like to see either pure gunners or pure force users. No more hybrids, but I think there are a lot of people who disagree on this.

Perhaps, if the above will not be done, it is an idea to disable the specific dark and light force powers for players who have points spent in gunnery.

UDM
04-04-2007, 03:43 PM
Well a lot of love, effort and poodle meat was spent into creating the hybrid forms, and to top it off, it was formally a community request too. I disagreed before, but on further consideration, if some changes and balances are made, it'll probably work out well eventually

Maxstate
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
Just deny them high level force powars!11

JRHockney*
04-04-2007, 07:00 PM
Just deny them high level force powars!11

I like this idea alot. In fact, I'd like to see maybe hybrids only allowed level 1 of everything (not just force powers) until they get over 100 points, then they are allowed level 2. After 200 points, they get level 3. It makes good logical sense since lack of skill would make not strong enough to carry more ammo or not knowledgable enough to know more than level 1 force powers. You want balanced RPG gameplay, this is probably as good as its going to get... well, that I can think of at the moment. Also with this set up, I think it would be possible to code without adding a monsterous load of stuff to the ui code. This would also fix the absorb problem because hybrids would have to walk

And dont give me that "its not intuitive" nonsense!! LOL :p If you want total customization, you should have to earn it bigtime!

With absorb or the offensive powers?

More absorb, but both really.

btw, it might be a good idea to make getting hit by blaster bolt while swinging and running do 3 or 4X damage sor so. It would make swinging at a gunner require a bit more percision rather than just swinging wildly.

razorace
04-04-2007, 08:01 PM
btw, it might be a good idea to make getting hit by blaster bolt while swinging and running do 3 or 4X damage sor so. It would make swinging at a gunner require a bit more percision rather than just swinging wildly.
I'm happy with current block delay method. Plus, manual deflection is based on swinging so this wouldn't work well for the jedi.

JRHockney*
04-04-2007, 08:28 PM
I'm happy with current block delay method. Plus, manual deflection is based on swinging so this wouldn't work well for the jedi.

Well, that would be just for walking.

Anyways, what about those other ideas? I think those are too good to pass up! LOL. Plus, its movie realistic. Does the quote: "my powers have doubled since the last time, Count" ring a bell? Anakin got over 100 skill points!! ROFL!

UDM
04-04-2007, 08:31 PM
I like the idea that hybrid classes cannot take high level force powers. That's a very good one...

HamstrYODA
04-05-2007, 02:33 AM
How about making them cost more? Like when you have spend 20 points on weapon skills, force skills will cost 1 point more, after 40 points on weapon skills, force skills cost 2 points more ect.
Not sure about numbers but you got the idea.

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 02:43 AM
Would be more coding with the same result.

I like either: splitting up (invisibly) the gunner and Jedi section and making an 'if someone buys more than so many points here then they're excluded from level 3 force powers' and so on. It doesn't have to be skill specific at all.

Or, you could just deny gunners the use of high level force powers while they are carrying guns.

UDM
04-05-2007, 04:31 AM
But what's the point? Originally, hybrid classes can't shoot when they're holding guns. Another workaround would be for them to switch to melee, use force lightning, then quickly switch back to the gun. That doesnt sound very different from the original hybrid class

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 04:42 AM
There's a big difference between being able to jump over a Jedi with a rocket launcher and not being able too. There's a big difference between being able to bunnyhop around and dodge lightsaber slashes with Jedi's force jump than not being able too.

The list goes on.

UDM
04-05-2007, 04:45 AM
Good point. But it may encourage key binding. They can just work it around by jumping then quickly changing weapons. They'll just be slower by 1 sec tops

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 04:46 AM
Good point. But it may encourage key binding. They can just work it around by jumping then quickly changing weapons. They'll just be slower by 1 sec tops
I don't think they will bother that much, if you want we can go test it out on Hamachi.

UDM
04-05-2007, 04:53 AM
You think? Trust me, in servers stuffed with morons and kids, they'll do things like that

Think about it - back in JO, when duel was the rage, people who lost duels would /recon in order to get back to the top of the list. People would do the same in JKA too, if that exploit wasn't fixed already. That's how many morons there are in this community

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 04:55 AM
You think? Trust me, in servers stuffed with morons and kids, they'll do things like that

Think about it - back in JO, when duel was the rage, people who lost duels would /recon in order to get back to the top of the list. People would do the same in JKA too, if that exploit wasn't fixed already. That's how many morons there are in this community

We shouldn't be insulting a future fanbase, there are morons in every niche and cranny lol.

But I don't think people will be hotkeying weapons just to use them in the few seconds of jump mode or whatever, if they do, we can tweak moar.

razorace
04-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Well, that would be just for walking.
The manual reflections or the x4 bolt block DP damage?

Anyways, what about those other ideas? I think those are too good to pass up! LOL. Plus, its movie realistic. Does the quote: "my powers have doubled since the last time, Count" ring a bell? Anakin got over 100 skill points!! ROFL!
I'm not for the idea for the same reason I want custom players inthe first place, players should be able to pick what they want.

There's no reason to limit levels based on total skill points since SW characters can/have had "wild talent" in certain skills and abilities. I think we just need to balance the skill point costs and then everything will fall in line.

razorace
04-05-2007, 01:30 PM
We shouldn't be insulting a future fanbase, there are morons in every niche and cranny lol.
I think he was just pointing out that people will use exploits if they aren't fixed.

As for bunny hopping, if people think it is a problem, we can just boost jump cost until it's not possible to spam the jumping.

Maxstate
04-05-2007, 02:11 PM
Ace, now you're bringing in SW characters while I thought we were going for reliasm?
You guys seem to be changing your opinions and arguments based on what kind of discussion is being had........

I have nothing against custom players, but there is just no freaking way a Jedi is going to be carrying a rocket launcher and clone rifle as well as sentry droids on his back, and there is no way he is going to try and use them because the Jedi knows that the time he spent on training his force powers > the trinkets on his back.

The gunner doesn't believe in the Jedi hocus pocus so he uses technology, his or her training and experience with that technology allows them to use it properly and set it up properly and efficiently.

The hybrid class has had to cut his time scheme in half, half force power training, half weapons training, meaning he CAN NOT DO BOTH AS GOOD AS THE GUYS WHO SPECIALISE IN IT.

Why is this so hard to understand and why is there resistance against it? When we get a bigger fanbase going that's what you'll hear from them too untill this gets fixed. It's like having an FM3 darktrooper with lightning 3.

razorace
04-05-2007, 03:04 PM
I've always been talking about movie realism vs just realism. The SW movies aren't realistic to start with, but we can be faithful to the source material.

As I stated before, hybrids vs pure players of equal exp. don't have the skill point commitment to same skills since they've chosen to diversify their skills. Beyond that, I think it's just an issue of balancing the individual powers like absorb, the clone rifle, etc.

JRHockney*
04-05-2007, 08:27 PM
There's no reason to limit levels based on total skill points since SW characters can/have had "wild talent" in certain skills and abilities. I think we just need to balance the skill point costs and then everything will fall in line.


If we try to balance the skill points by making some more expensive, the pure classes will suffer too because they have to by them too.

Here is where the problem with total customization truly lies: if we nerf certain skills or (change points) in order to balance hybrids but nerf the powers the same way for the other pure "classes", hybrids STILL end up on top. THey still have access to jump 3 plus rocket luncher or flamethrower guns plus lightning 3. If we nerf any of those powers individually, the pure classes suffer and hybrids win again. So what if they cant afford as many force powers or as many guns early on, they'll just go straight for those overpowered combos.

What we need to do is either if find the certain combos that only hybrids can use and nerf the combos themselves or, use the idea I posted above. The advantage to my idea is more realistic earning compacity and it still goes with the total customization idea, just something to be earned.

There's just no getting around this. Us beta testers have been playing with it along time and most of us share a very similar view on this.

The manual reflections or the x4 bolt block DP damage?

I meant just for the manual reflections. The x4 DP damage would ONLY happen while running and swinging if we went with that.