View Full Version : Ghosts of the underground and ghosts in general

Dagobahn Eagle
04-08-2007, 12:25 PM
Ghosts of the underground (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3532202278643485929&q=ghosts+of+the+underground)
This documentary was first published by Five on the 31st of October 2006. It's about the alleged ghost sightings on the London Underground, called 'possibly one of the most haunted places on Earth' by the documentary's narrator.

This thread's subject is twofold: Discuss the documentary. Discuss the phenomenon of ghosts.
Let me address the documentary first. I personally liked it very much, mainly because it was not as full of cliché music and spooky voice-overs as most ghost and UFO movies, and because it tried to explain the experiences of the interview subjects. I can think of possible explanations for many of the things in the documentary, and it did not convince me that ghosts exist.

As for my stance on ghosts, I do not believe in them. I believe there's a more rational explanation for seeing and hearing inexplicable things in the dead of night. As the documentary points out, infra-sound, or sound with a wave-length of >25 hertz, is but one explanation for ghost experiences. It makes you feel cold, it gives you a feeling of being watched, and/or of not being alone, and it can create hallucinations in your peripheral vision. It can certainly account for many incidents.

04-08-2007, 02:52 PM
Hey, DE.

I was wondering if anyone had noticed any similarities between these alleged encounters with ghosts and those with UFOs/aliens.

The reason I'm asking is because you mentioned infrasound as a possible explanation for this phenomenon. I remember watching a TV show several years ago that dealt with alleged alien encounters/abductions where they proposed a theory that these occurances could be caused by localized electromagnetic disturbances in the earth's crust that interfere with a person's brain functions.

They even went so far as to re-create the phenomenon in a lab with a "normal" test subject (normal as in he had never exprienced any sort of "alien encounters" or anything similar before in his lifetime) by subjecting his brain to similar electromagnetic waves through electrodes taped to his scalp. As the intensity was increased (mind you, these waves were still very weak), the test subect began to experience in sequence feelings of unease, then of not being alone and of being watched.

At the highest intensity, the subject had a full-blown "alien encounter," where he actually saw the "aliens" and described their appearance as very similar to that as described by those who had experienced this phenomenon "naturally." The experiment was ended before an "abduction" occured and any "anal probe" was used, however.:xp:

Have you heard/read/seen anything about this possible explanation? Do you think it could apply to alleged encounters with "ghosts" as well?

Dagobahn Eagle
04-08-2007, 04:44 PM
Wiki' to the rescue! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound#Animal_and_human_reactions_to_infrasoun d) ;)

At the highest intensity, the subject had a full-blown "alien encounter," where he actually saw the "aliens" and described their appearance as very similar to that as described by those who had experienced this phenomenon "naturally."Interesting thing, then, is that if this is true, then you see what you expect to see. The same thing holds true for your memory, actually: It's remarkably easy to plant and modify memories, both when the subject is awake and when he or she is hypnotized. Several experiments have been conducted on this. I don't have the link to an Internet source, but Scandinavian popular science magazine Science Illustrated has written on this several times. In one case, people who had visited Disneyland were asked if they remembered meeting Bugs Bunny. Several of them ended up vividly remembering meeting Bugs, even giving details such as how they had been stroking his soft fur. The only problem is that Bugs Bunny is a Warner Brothers character who has never once been anywhere near Disneyland.

I wonder if the test subjects, if told that they were in a haunted building and that infra-red sound would enable them to see the ghosts, would see spooks instead of grey men. I hypothesize that the answer would be yes.

04-08-2007, 07:24 PM
It's too late to watch the documentary :p (It's 2AM here)

I'm not really sure what to to think of ghosts though, I remember watching Ghostbusters as a kid and getting freaked out by the hellish dogs :D. I was pretty scared of 'ghosts' when I was younger, but now when I think about it, it had a lot do to with me not feeling safe at home. So my fear of ghosts was just insecurity fueled by my imagination. I feel that this may be the case of many who are afraid of ghosts of some sort.

I'm not really afraid of them now, but I'd rather not walk through a dark forest / graveyard / abandoned house at night. :xp:

04-08-2007, 09:52 PM
Logical Proof that it is Likely that Ghosts Exists:

1) Many religions, like mine, believe in Ghosts. Example of ghosts would be demons, angels, "jinn", spirits, souls, etc. If any of these religions that believe in ghosts are correct and true, then ghosts must exist.

2) If these religions are wrong, then let us rely on Science then in order to help us learn about the world. The problem is that a new idea is growing, that of Determinism. A causes B, B causes C, C causes D, etc. AJL is a firm believer of it, stating that we really have no contorl over what we do. We are contorlled by our surrondings, our genes, our brains, our parents, etc. We are not responsible for what we do, because of Determinism. In fact, there may be no right or wrong at all, since all our thoughts and beliefs are controlled by the past, our genes, our enviroment, etc., so there may be no objective morality at all. Science likes this theory, because the concept of "free will" that most people believe makes no sense according to the theories that scientists figured out.

But, this theory is disliked by most people, and I understand that. Some people want to place in a concept of "free will", which people are actually in control of their own destinties. I do not buy it, but many do. But for "free will" to exist, it must be a "Prime Mover", it must move itself. If it does not move itself, if other things move it, like your genes or your enviroment, then you have no such thing as "free will" at all. You have to move yourself, and I find the thought of that a bit too arrogant for my liking.

But, let us assume you have free will. Then this free will may be something we could term as a "soul", or a "spirit" or such invisible being that resides within you. Aren't ghosts just invisible beings?

So if Free Will exist, then Ghosts also exist, and a Ghost is within each of us, and it is that Ghost that decides what we all do.

3) No proof of ghosts does not mean ghosts do not exist. They may very well be that mysterious alien invasion the hippies warned us about.