PDA

View Full Version : The immigration debate


Totenkopf
05-03-2007, 02:24 PM
Seems to me there's a disingenuous strategy afoot to muddy the debate about immigration and try to paint opponents of ILLEGAL immigration as some kind of xenophobic mob. I have yet to hear anyone here yet say that we should completely shut down ALL immigration in response to this problem. Most opponents of illegal immigration I' ve heard (personally, on the news, in print) address the issue only wish to see everyone follow the same set of rules to become citizens. If you are here illegally, you SHOULD go home (afterall, it's where you really live anyway). Afterall, we don't tolerate this sort of thing at the individual level (ie a poor person can't go work in Bill Gate's home and then decide to essentially become a squatter there on the grounds that he's worked at the estate for years). Should you wish to come back, do so in a LEGAL manner and wait in line with the rest of the hopefuls. This policy should be followed in all nations by potential immigrants. Feel free to sound off.....

SilentScope001
05-03-2007, 02:56 PM
Seems to me there's a disingenuous strategy afoot to muddy the debate about immigration and try to paint opponents of ILLEGAL immigration as some kind of xenophobic mob.

Hm. Then why are they objecting when people say we should "legalize" all immigration?

I mean, after all, once we legalize all immigration, there would be no illegal immigration. Problem solved. :)

Because it's obivous. Cheap labor harms those who are here. It takes away money that belongs to people who are here legally. All the limitations are there so that there will only be a few money left. Which could be xenophoic in my eyes, but I use a very wide definition here, and what I consider xenophobic is not xenophobia to you.

Which isn't wrong, really. I can understand their arguments, and I do understand. Unluckily, now that the Democrats are in power, your voices are forgotten. Looks to me that such a program to legalize immigrants is going to get passed. I guess all one has to do is adapt rather than complain.

Luckily, I'm not in power, so I don't have to deal with the crisis. ;)

If you are here illegally, you SHOULD go home (afterall, it's where you really live anyway).

...Nooooo!

Even the College Republicans on my campus wants illegal immigrants to stay (or at least, will tolerate them). They told me that they are campaging against a law (the DREAM Act) that would let illegal immigrants pay the same fare as a person who lives in the state, provided that you fufil certain qualifications. They state that they are not against illegal immigration, but they believe that an illegal immigrant should pay more money for college than an in-state person...After all, he is here illegaly, and you might as well punish him somehow.

Not to mention cheap labor for corporations and the fact that we don't have to pay health care to them (but they have to pay taxes so that they don't get caught for being illegal), and you can see that they should stay with us. Illegally of course.

mimartin
05-03-2007, 04:08 PM
I have friends that parents came to this country illegally and you couldnít meet better people if you tried. I could easily name 10 people I know who are within this country illegally. Iím a small business owner, but Iíve never knowingly hired an illegal resident.
Iím sure some finished my office out, but I hired the contractor and not the workers.

I donít consider myself a racist, but Iím not for rewarding anyone for illegal actions. I find it unfair to those that followed the rules. While Iím for legal immigration, Iím totally against illegal immigration. Iím unsure why there is even a debate over this. I wouldnít expect to go to another country and break their law and then have the crime magically forgiven, so why is it expected of America?

Not to mention cheap labor for corporations and the fact that we don't have to pay health care to them (but they have to pay taxes so that they don't get caught for being illegal), and you can see that they should stay with us. Illegally of course.

Not all pay taxes. Most I know are paid in cash and Iím sure they donít report all if any of their earning to Uncle Sam. They do however have children in our local school system; they do still get sick and go to the local hospital. So they are eating into the tax money of the local community, state and federal goverment. While most are good and hard working, what about the ones adding to our already over crowded prison system? No illegal immigration cost all tax payers.

As for cheap labor you are correct. That is why the fines for hiring undocumented workers should be so sever that the punishment out weighs any benefits received from the illegal behavior.

In the 80ís they gave amnesty and said it would curtail illegal immigration. It didnít work then and it will not work now. Amnesty only encourages illegal activity. A crime is a crime and that kind of behavior should not be rewarded.

lukeiamyourdad
05-03-2007, 06:54 PM
I wrote a paper on refugees not long ago that covers immigration too. My parents were refugees, so it is a personal matter for me.

Stories of that time tell that entering America was a particularly difficult task. Which is why they ended up in Canada, which doesn't have immigration laws that are as restrictive.

In the comparative paper, I talked about how the Canadian system was incredibly successful as opposed to the American one. Canada chooses its immigrants based on their abilities. If you have a diploma, you have great chances of entering the country. If you have any kind of special ability, have been a successful entrepreneur but now persecuted by the new communist government, you have better chance of entering the country and gaining citizenship. Of course, this is the ideal, it isn't as easy as I make it sound, especially for people with diplomas, as some are not recognized as valid. After all, I don't want to be checked by a doctor who was trained at the Phnom Penh Medical School. Not that he's incompetent, but just that he doesn't have the same knowledge as a locally trained doctor.

The United States, on the other hand, receives immigrants based on the idea of family reunification. As a matter of fact, when my parents tried to get into the US, they needed a family member already in the US, which they have, but still decided to go elsewhere. This system causes immigrants to not all be qualified and more of them have difficulty with integration.

Now, it seems like Canada has an inherently better system then the US no? In a way yes, but Canadians don't have to deal with the massive waves the Americans have to face. Being the land of opportunity has its drawbacks. The Canadian system is specifically tailored for Canada. The Americans still need to find one that makes everyone relatively happy.

Perhaps systems of migrant workers could work. I was in Dubai once and noticed how a lot of people doing little jobs were Philippinos. The Philippines is a great exporter of its work force across the countries of the Indian Ocean. Again, it's still a different situation then in the United States so it could not work.

The problem with the immigration debate is that for everyone who is mature enough to have that discussion, there's a moron who yells louder then everyone else the following words or variations of it:"Keep the damn immigrants out of our country!" Think Jean-Marie Le Pen in France. Now, I'm certain that the media in general don't say that, but on an individual level, I'm quite sure many who are for stronger anti-immigration laws do it out of racism and xenophobia. It's unfortunate, but there are people like that.