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View Full Version : TV evangelist Jerry Falwell dies at 73


Achilles
05-15-2007, 08:14 PM
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_on_re_us/jerry_falwell)

LYNCHBURG, Va. - The Rev. Jerry Falwell was stricken at his campus office and died Tuesday after a career in which the evangelist used the power of television to transform the religious right into a mighty force in American politics. He was 73.

Emperor Devon
05-15-2007, 09:03 PM
Can't say I think it's bad news, but my condolences nonetheless...

Jae Onasi
05-15-2007, 09:13 PM
A lot of kids have gotten college educations who wouldn't have otherwise without all his work, and no, it's not just theology degrees. Whatever you think of his politics, he did a lot of good with that college.

I don't agree with everything he did, however, he altered religion's relationship with politics in a powerful way. In terms of politics, the Moral Majority was a force to be reckoned with, if not an actual majority. His involvement with politics showed religious people that their political views were just as important as anyone else's and that the way to get laws friendly to your cause (or not hostile to your religious views) was to actually get out of the church now and again and do something positive.

Emperor Devon
05-15-2007, 11:31 PM
A lot of kids have gotten college educations who wouldn't have otherwise without all his work, and no, it's not just theology degrees. Whatever you think of his politics, he did a lot of good with that college.

Economic contributions are by no means a way to determine a person's character. Hitler did wonders for unemployment rates in Germany and is commonly regarded a monster.

As a person I won't be missing him. I quote:

"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals."

"I do question the sincerity and non-violent intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

"Labor unions should study and read the Bible instead of asking for more money. When people get right with God, they are better workers."

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" (In response to 9/11)

Ugh, the more about this guy the less and less sympathetic I feel to his loss. I am outraged he denounces people who share both my my (non) religious and moral beliefs as supporters of terrorism. But I should probably stop before this becomes a full-fledged debate...

His involvement with politics showed religious people that their political views were just as important as anyone else's and that the way to get laws friendly to your cause (or not hostile to your religious views) was to actually get out of the church now and again and do something positive.

Personally people who pass laws for solely religious reasons scare me.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-16-2007, 01:09 AM
What Achilles said. I pity his friends and family, I really do. But at the same time, I know I will not mourn him personally.

Statements by Jerry Falwell (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jerry_Falwell)

Personally people who pass laws for solely religious reasons scare me.And you're not alone with those views.

Jae Onasi
05-16-2007, 01:28 AM
Yes, he said some dumb things. I cringed when he said those things. But I'd expect you (Devon) of anyone to understand that a loss of a life is, still, a loss, and it's gone from this earth forever. You don't have to agree with the guy to acknowledge the definitive effect he had on politics or the education benefits that kids from that part of the country had because of his work.
Why is my religious worldview any less important than your atheist worldview? Just because it's religious? I have just as much right to have my views represented to Congress as any other person of religious or non-religious persuasion.
There are things atheists would like to see passed in direct contradiction to religious freedom. The ACLU has shown this repeatedly with lawsuits trying to ban religious displays on public property, despite the fact it's a violation of the Constitution and a gross disregard for the fact that I pay taxes and have the right to utilize public property just as they do. They have done precious little, if anything, to protect the civil liberties of religious people who've had their constitutional rights violated because it doesn't fit with their generally atheist world view. These religious freedoms that Falwell helped fight for were more important than anything he did in any of the other areas.

This may not be the best venue for discussion of hot topics--Falwell was a polarizing enough person, and I'd rather a thread announcing the death of someone have some solemnity to it.

True_Avery
05-16-2007, 02:07 AM
I personally hate the guy with a passion, but condolences to his friends and family and may he Rest In Peace.

There are things atheists would like to see passed in direct contradiction to religious freedom. The ACLU has shown this repeatedly with lawsuits trying to ban religious displays on public property, despite the fact it's a violation of the Constitution and a gross disregard for the fact that I pay taxes and have the right to utilize public property just as they do. They have done precious little, if anything, to protect the civil liberties of religious people who've had their constitutional rights violated because it doesn't fit with their generally atheist world view. These religious freedoms that Falwell helped fight for were more important than anything he did in any of the other areas.
I agree with you that Religious freedom is important, but please do not blame all of that on atheists. I know plenty of Religious people that are very hateful of other people's beliefs and would love to see those public scenes removed just as much, if not even more. I respect that he fought for the rights of freedom of Religion, I really do, but please remember that Atheism can be seen as a form of Religion and belief system as well and should be respected just as much as you want them to respect your beliefs.

I could makes pages of what I thought about Religious world veiws, but I wont do it. Let us please try and keep this an R.I.P thread and not a Religious debate thread, even though it is tempting by some.

(I hope I didn't say anything I will regret... >.<)

SilentScope001
05-16-2007, 02:21 AM
Death is still death.

Would you really want people saying on your deathbed, "[INSERT NAME HERE] is an idiot and a b****** who deserves to be forgotten from the history book"? It's so dehumanizing and disrespectful for that human being in general, and for that ideology he represents. Sure, he may be an idiot and a b******, but according to you, others may disagree, and in the end, one should never say that, because it is just so insulting.

I express deep regret at his friends, his familes, his politicans, his PACs, his finanical empire, and of course, him.

Emperor Devon
05-16-2007, 03:19 AM
But I'd expect you (Devon) of anyone to understand that a loss of a life is, still, a loss, and it's gone from this earth forever.

What? He's not going to heaven? :p

I have extended my sympathies to those who mourn his loss, but whether he's gone for good or not does mean I have to have liked him nor consider his death an occasion to mourn over. Given how he believes people who share my views should burn in the flames of hell I don't think I'm entitled to mourn his death either.

You don't have to agree with the guy to acknowledge the definitive effect he had on politics or the education benefits that kids from that part of the country had because of his work.

College students earning degrees due to the contributions of the government or a an individual who did do it for non-religious reasons is one thing, having that be due to the efforts of a homophobic, racist, hateful, discrminatory individual who did it for reasons I can't even guess is another.

{snip}I have just as much right to have my views represented to Congress as any other person of religious or non-religious persuasion.

Separation of church and state. Religion (or non-religion) should play no role at all in laws that are applied to people who follow a multitude of faiths. I don't want laws forced upon me because they agree with ideals I do not agree with. If abortion were to be outlawed, for instance (God forbid), I would want it done because of a reason that could be applied to all religious groups in the country, not just one of them.

There are things atheists would like to see passed in direct contradiction to religious freedom. The ACLU has shown this repeatedly with lawsuits trying to ban religious displays on public property,

I've heard plenty of cases of that, and I agree completely; it's public property and belongs to atheists just as much as it does to the Christians. Since we don't have any monuments to our beliefs erected upon it it's only fair you don't as well. I imagine you'd find a giant sign saying "Gods are make-believe" on public property to be offensive? To an atheist a cross on public land is just as bad; we both consider the idea both represent to be entirely incorrect.

If we were trying to prevent your religious freedoms we'd be stopping them from being shown on private property. However, I think it is only fair that public property respects the whole of the public equally. Christian churches can be built on Christian land, but something that belongs to everyone should cater equally to everyone.

despite the fact it's a violation of the Constitution and a gross disregard for the fact that I pay taxes and have the right to utilize public property just as they do.

Utilize it yes, utilize it exclusively no. Just as you probably don't want your tax dollars going to build public mosques, Wiccan symbols or Hindi statues, I do not want mine to go forth to be building crosses. I don't think it's very unfair of me to say that all religious groups should not impose their views by building their own religious symbols on land meant for everyone.

These religious freedoms that Falwell helped fight for were more important than anything he did in any of the other areas.

There is a fine difference between defending your own religion and attacking that of another. I think Dagobahn's Falwell link says everything about his character better than I could.

Totenkopf
05-16-2007, 04:29 AM
What? He's not going to heaven? :p

Well, assuming he does, he is still gone from here (atheists hold your applause please ;)) for what amounts to forever.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-16-2007, 08:47 AM
But I'd expect you (Devon) of anyone to understand that a loss of a life is, still, a loss, and it's gone from this earth forever.We do understand that, Jae. If you lose someone you love, you lose someone you love, regardless of how others perceive that person.

GarfieldJL
05-16-2007, 12:13 PM
I really think this topic is disrespectful to a man that died yesterday. Seriously there hasn't even been a funeral yet.

tk102
05-16-2007, 12:22 PM
Perhaps the discussion over what Falwell accomplished during his lifetime would be more appropriate for Kavar's Corner than gloating or mourning over his death.

lukeiamyourdad
05-16-2007, 01:06 PM
I really think this topic is disrespectful to a man that died yesterday. Seriously there hasn't even been a funeral yet.


I see nothing disrespectful. People are speaking about what this man did in his lifetime. Such a controversial figure is certain to attract detractors and supporters. The discussion has been quite civil and no to very little poop has been thrown towards Falwell.

That would be because I've edited/deleted the truly offensive posts. --Jae


As for me, I think TV evangelists are such wonderful public figures. Really. Ok, I ain't fooling anyone. I like religious events, I do. I used to go to the pagoda very often and it was a nice event, a nice center of activity for the Vietnamese Buddhist community. The catholic churches also held interesting events. You always feel at peace in these places. But TV evangelists? I have nothing good to say about them.

mimartin
05-16-2007, 01:18 PM
First off I’d like to give condolences to the family, friends and followers of Mr. Falwell.

Personally I’ve never liked or believed in his religious teachings. Emperor Devon listed good examples above, but my main gripe is his teaching of intolerance. Like so many other of our so called leader, both political and religious it is easier to blame the problem of our country on those that are different from the majority instead of doing what is more difficult and necessary to fix the problem.

I know some will disagree with me, but personally from my reading of the Bible, the message I received from its word is the lesson of tolerance and love. So in my personal opinion this man contradicted everything my beliefs stand for.

Thanks to Mr. Falwell and other leaders of the so called Moral Majority I was told that if I did not vote the way they saw fit I would spend eternity in hell. This ended my relationship with an intolerant church and all organized religion. Although I still believe in the God, I just no longer live by others interpretations of God’s word.

His legacy is that one day soon churches will and should be taxed for no longer being houses of worship, but as being political pulpits.

Again my thoughts and prayers are with him and his family at this time.

Darth InSidious
05-16-2007, 01:27 PM
Requiem æternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis. Te decet hymnus Deus, in Sion, et tibi reddetur votum in Ierusalem. Exaudi orationem meam; ad te omnis caro veniet. Requiem æternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

I don't necessarily agree with this guys politics, methods or beliefs, but nonetheless, I suggest that we do as Chilon suggested and speak no ill of the dead...

Jae Onasi
05-16-2007, 03:52 PM
I don't necessarily agree with this guys politics, methods or beliefs, but nonetheless, I suggest that we do as Chilon suggested and speak no ill of the dead...

I highly agree. If you don't like the man, fine, but don't post something unpleasant in this thread. I've had to prune several posts as it is, and I am dismayed at some of those posts with offensive remarks. You know who you are and you should be ashamed of yourselves. There are people with whom I am diametrically opposed on the subjects of theism/atheism or pro-life, but if they died, I would never dream of saying some of the things that have been said here.

If there are specific issues that Dr. Falwell raised that you think should be discussed, please continue posting those things in the relevant threads, or if there is no thread feel free to start a new one.

TK-8252
05-16-2007, 08:05 PM
One thing I don't get is that in a thread, for example, about Saddam Hussein's hanging, it is appropriate to say things like "**** Saddam!", "he got what he deserved!", and "burn in hell!", but saying similar things about Jerry Falwell is not okay. Yes, Jerry Falwell did SOME good deeds. But so did Hitler. So did Stalin. So did Hussein. While I don't think that Falwell personally had anyone killed, I have to wonder how many people died or were persecuted/discriminated against as a result of his statements. These statements would include things like encouraging the killing of Muslims, the persecution of gays, the discrimation against women, the prejudice against non-Christians, and the many other vile things he had to say.

Just because someone is dead... doesn't mean they deserve any more respect than they had when they were alive.

Emperor Devon
05-16-2007, 08:17 PM
I don't necessarily agree with this guys politics, methods or beliefs, but nonetheless, I suggest that we do as Chilon suggested and speak no ill of the dead...

That wasn't the case with the Saddam death thread. :xp:

A thread for someone's death is the perfect place to review and voice what you think about their life, IMO. As Falwell admitted to being racist, anti-feminist and homophobic, since I disagree with those views I think I have the right to state my opinion on them when people mourn a staunch supporter of those views.

Achilles
05-16-2007, 08:51 PM
That wasn't the case with the Saddam death thread. :xp: Way to hold truth up like a mirror, ED. :)

Jae Onasi
05-16-2007, 08:52 PM
One thing I don't get is that in a thread, for example, about Saddam Hussein's hanging, it is appropriate to say things like "**** Saddam!",

That wasn't the case with the Saddam death thread.

And you know what? In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have tolerated those kinds of hateful statements, either. I'm not going to pretend to say I'm unbiased, although I will say Falwell's actions are in no way remotely comparable to Saddam's.

Just because someone is dead... doesn't mean they deserve any more respect than they had when they were alive.

It doesn't mean someone should use expletives and express great joy over someone's demise just because they don't agree with his religious or political views, either.

I have seen death. A lot of it. Probably more than all of you combined will ever see in your entire lifetimes. It colors my view tremendously about how precious life really is.

Totenkopf
05-16-2007, 11:54 PM
Dennis Miller said something tonight that I kind of agree with. Pull out the long knives after the shovels are dropped. Frankly, I'm sure that Falwell's friends and family knew what kind of things would be said well before he died and are no doubt not surprised. I'd agree that it would be more a display of courtesy and decorum to wait till the body was cold, so to speak, before speaking ill of the dead, but that really doesn't seem to be human nature. Afterall, what are roasts and wakes but the very thing on a smaller scale. However, the vehemence of the vitriol does speak to Falwell's success, real or perceived, while alive. I won't miss him, nor however do I have anything nasty to say about him.

GarfieldJL
05-17-2007, 01:49 AM
I don't think it's remotely legitimate to compare Falwell to Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam. Seriously Falwell wasn't responsible for mass murder.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-17-2007, 03:31 AM
Reading my first comment again, I realize it may have been not too harsh, but certainly out of place. I apologize.

Allronix
05-17-2007, 05:11 AM
He died quickly, in relative peace, and of natural causes. How tacky is it to be relieved that he's been called back home?

I think he and his ilk are an insult to the prophet they claim to follow. Money-changing in the temples, anyone? Tax cuts (what was that line about "give unto Ceaser")? Railing against abortion, contraception, and even sex ed. Screaming about evolution in science classes, playing the "poor me, I'm a put upon Christian," then turning around and calling anyone following a different faith than his interpetation a "failure as a human being?" His comments about 9/11? Well, they might as well have been written by the fanatical, evil masterminds behind the attack! In the Bible according to Falwell and the Koran by Bin Laden, we were right to be punished because not everyone bowed down to their idea of God. :firemad:

Peace be with his family, but I honestly cannot say I'll miss the message he carried. My family and I have had to live with much fear because of it.

Oh, and for the record? I've also been with the ACLU for over a decade. ACLU isn't necessarily for banning all religion, but it wants to be careful that one religion is not endorsed over another. Yes, they get silly with the creche-busting. However, we still have public officials telling Jewish kids to put their Star of David under their shirt and look the other way on crosses, tell Muslim women to remove their scarves, and tell the athiest student to go along with graduation prayers or forfeit his diploma.

Darth InSidious
05-17-2007, 10:27 AM
That wasn't the case with the Saddam death thread. :xp:
As I recall, I posted similar sentiments in that thread, too.

If I didn't, please feel free to dig up the appropriate post :)

Nancy Allen``
05-17-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm the sort of person who would celebrate the death of someone who said the things and did the things he did, but his family doesn't need to hear those sort of comments, leave them be.

Hallucination
05-18-2007, 12:09 AM
My thoughts go out to his family.

But as for his political influence... :spinnaz:

Samuel Dravis
05-18-2007, 02:13 AM
Falwell did some things I do not appreciate. However, I do empathize for all the people that found greater value in him than I, particularly his family. Rest in peace, Falwell.

Emperor Devon
05-19-2007, 04:25 PM
As I recall, I posted similar sentiments in that thread, too.

My post was more addressed to everyone posting in this thread than you specifically. But as no one seems to share similar sentiments, I'll drop the issue.