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View Full Version : Patriotism: the good and bad things about it


mur'phon
05-16-2007, 08:12 AM
Since my countrys national day is tomorow, I have been called unpatriotic enough times to be fairly sure that it is true. So far, I haven't really cared much about it, as I don't think it is a bad thing, but perhaps I'm missing something. So I wonder if someone could please tel me what is good, and what is bad about being patriotic/unpatriotic.

Ray Jones
05-16-2007, 08:21 AM
Patriotism is a silly and outdated idea, since we all share the same planet. To some extend patriotism can be compared with racism (read: NOT EQUAL TO racism), as it causes the same things, like for instance hatred and war.

Lord Spitfire
05-16-2007, 09:31 AM
I'm a patriot at heart. I'm proud of my country. Is there really anything wrong with that?

Patriotism fuels faith and self-confidence. What is wrong with that? Patriotism is unity. What is wrong with that? Patriotism is loyalty. What is wrong with that? Patriotism is something that is needed more than anything in the world today. Yes, we are all human beings, but what is important to us is our loyalty not to our planet, but to our country.

If you are a patriot of the planet earth, then what faith do you have? Human beings are divided. Deal with it. Countries hate each other. Deal with it. Though I believe that it is wrong, it is completely and wholy true.

People say that patriotsm can lead to racism. Now, I am a vehement opposer to racism of ALL cultures, but being proud of your country is not wrong. That IS NOT RACISM!

But of course, we have to narrow this down to the nature of human beings. All feelings - love, hate, anger, compassion, patience, like, dislike, PATRIOTISM, Apathy - are just chemical reactions in your body that either fuel or desecrate your self-esteem, another chemical reaction that the body likes. And everyone needs that.

Ray Jones
05-16-2007, 10:45 AM
Yes, we are all human beings, but what is important to us is our loyalty not to our planet, but to our country. When we deny loyalty to our planet, we soon can wipe our behinds with loyalty to our countries. What would I need patriotism for? Patriotism doesn't get us anywhere.

If you are a patriot of the planet earth, then what faith do you have?I have faith in myself, which is already more than enough. I have faith in life and in the continuance of things. I believe that at the end of the day it doesn't matter what we do, because in a 300 gazillion parsecs distance it makes no difference. However, we can spend our time hitting each other with a bat, or we can try to find out what there is besides hitting each other with a bat.

And yes, I am "patriot of the earth", because it has like thousands of beautiful and cool places to go to, not just those which happen to be where my country was drawn on a map.

Human beings are divided. Deal with it. Countries hate each other. Deal with it. Though I believe that it is wrong, it is completely and wholy true.You know, if mankind, as species, wants to be more than a silent fart of the Universe, the deal has to be a different one.

GarfieldJL
05-16-2007, 11:10 AM
Patriotism actually does have many good qualities, being proud of your country encourages one to take care of it. That includes the environment. I'm proud to be an American.

lukeiamyourdad
05-16-2007, 12:15 PM
Patriotism is all fine. As long as you don't go:"ZOMG! MY COUNTRY 1S B2T7ER THEN JOORS!" That deserves my fist in your face.

Honestly, I think that patriotism is good for national identity and there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's when people start flinging accusations of lack of patriotism to those that disagree with them (no, don't start that discussion here) that it becomes a problem. It's when patriotism is wielded arrogantly that it becomes a problem. Think about it. No one likes a patriotic tourist coming into your country and acting like he's the best thing in the world because his country is X,Y,Z.

Darth InSidious
05-16-2007, 12:24 PM
I define patriotism as love of one's country. By this definition, I am a patriot. It is this love of my country which motivates me to try and change it and make it a better place.

Windu Chi
05-16-2007, 12:27 PM
Since my countrys national day is tomorow, I have been called unpatriotic enough times to be fairly sure that it is true. So far, I haven't really cared much about it, as I don't think it is a bad thing, but perhaps I'm missing something. So I wonder if someone could please tel me what is good, and what is bad about being patriotic/unpatriotic.
Patriotism in one's own country is ancient and divisive, all our countries are insignificant next to the galaxy at large, we should be willing to sacrifice by defending ourselves from the evil in the universe not for the pride in just insignificant land on one planet, until we explore the galaxy, we all should be patriotic for defending Earth from the rise of any unforeseen evil. :)

Achilles
05-16-2007, 12:39 PM
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates

If patriotism is love of one's country, then I am a patriot. However I think we would have to define "love". If love is the fan-boy adoration of everything about my country which can only be sated by insisting that my country is the greatest country in the world at every opportunity, then I don't love my country. If love is the open and honest acceptance that my country is not perfect, but it's still mine, then I think I'm ok.

I have no problem with civic pride. I just wish more people saw every country as part of their community and every human being their neighbor.

True_Avery
05-16-2007, 12:48 PM
Hmmm, patriotism.

I have been called unpatriotic several times from several people and I probably deserve it, but I really don't care.

America is a great place to live, it really is. But the idea that if I do not stand and pledge to the flag every single morning will somehow lesson "freedom" in this country is an outdated and silly idea. High school teachers, mine included, still demand that kids do the pledge every morning or get sent out of class for disrespect. I have had many teachers tell me I must hate freedom because I decided not to get up one day and instead continue to work on a paper.

I love the country, love freedom... but damn... its not like Freedom is a brand new and amazing idea. I could move straight up to Canada and not feel much of any different, plus Health Care, less hate in the news, and marriage rights. Wheeee!

And I agree, there is a difference to obsessive love and a respect for where you live.

SilentScope001
05-16-2007, 02:23 PM
Patriotism:

Good=It helps the nation...
Bad=...at the expense of the individual, since the individual will help that nation out, and neglect himself in the process.

Who do I treasure more...the individual (me)...or some random nation which I happened to be born into? If I was a patriot of America, because I was born here...then that means I could be a patriot of Nazi Germany, or Hutu's Rwanda, or anything else. Why? Because I could have been born there.

Besides, the nation takes away money from me to pay for stuff I don't need, doesn't listen to my feeble voice telling them to change their policies, and often times, treat me as a giant voting ballot. Why love it?

I think I rather prefer me, myself, and I.

Darth InSidious
05-16-2007, 02:37 PM
"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world." - Socrates

If patriotism is love of one's country, then I am a patriot. However I think we would have to define "love". If love is the fan-boy adoration of everything about my country which can only be sated by insisting that my country is the greatest country in the world at every opportunity, then I don't love my country. If love is the open and honest acceptance that my country is not perfect, but it's still mine, then I think I'm ok.

I have no problem with civic pride. I just wish more people saw every country as part of their community and every human being their neighbor.
QFE/T

mimartin
05-16-2007, 05:51 PM
I see nothing wrong with Patriotism as long as it does not turn into an extreme form of Nationalism. Iím from Texas and Iím very proud that Iím from Texas. However, I donít think Texas is any better than any other state in the union or for that matter any other place on earth. Well maybe Oklahoma. It is just unique from other places I have visited and it is my home. Iíve traveled to half the states as well as Australia and Mexico. Iíve seen some very beautiful places outside of Texas and meet some wonderful people, but Iím always happy to return home.

We should be loyal and proud of our home, but not at the cost of our planet.

Pho3nix
05-16-2007, 08:07 PM
Well, I have a good quote relating to this issue:

"The love of one country, leads to the destruction of another"

I think it pretty much sums it up. I'm pretty patriotic, but at the same time I can easily criticize Finland and hear others criticize my country as well.

Achilles
05-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Well said. A perponderance of marketing classes have taught me the value of things that aren't said as well as implied meanings.

For instance, when I drive around and see bumper stickers that read "God bless the USA", I recognize the rest of the message which reads, "...and not your country". "God bless the world" or "God bless us all" is much more clear and uses the same number or words, so the "God bless the USA while we nuke your stupid country into the dark ages" interpretation is pretty clearly what was meant by that message (ok, I embellished a little). As a fun little aside, does anyone here know what the SS had engraved on their belt buckles. Hmmm...

My kids ask my why everyone has an American flag except us and I don't have the heart to explain all that to them. Similarly, watching a room full of kids chant "U-S-A!!!" (..."NOT YOU!") on Flag Day makes me a little sick inside. Oh, and I really don't like standing for the national anthem either.

mimartin
05-16-2007, 10:07 PM
I can easily criticize Finland and hear others criticize my country as well.

To me being critical of your country is an important part of patriotism. You see the flaws in the place you love and see how it could be even a better place without those flaws. The problem is most of us see the flaws but do nothing to actively seek a solution to the problems of the place we love.

Ok, I embellished a little.

Maybe a lot? I do however get your point and actually agree in principle with it. Reminds me of Romans chapter 8:31 ďIf god is for us, who can be against us.Ē Never liked the use of repeating that verse and thought it was really presumptuous of anyone to quote it when trying to inspire others about their battle or fight, how do I know that God isnít for the other side?

urluckyday
05-16-2007, 10:33 PM
Patriot within reason = good

Fundamentalist = sometimes good, sometimes bad (really depends on the person)

Crazed Fundamentalist = never good

lukeiamyourdad
05-17-2007, 05:44 PM
I love the country, love freedom... but damn... its not like Freedom is a brand new and amazing idea. I could move straight up to Canada and not feel much of any different, plus Health Care, less hate in the news, and marriage rights. Wheeee!



Don't go to Ontario. They'll have you swear allegiance to the Queen of England :p

There's nationalism up here too, but to a lesser degree then in the United States. Perhaps several decades of being a moderate power has shaped the Canadian populace differently. No reason to be ashame of who we are, but nothing good enough to rub into other people's faces. That's why nobody hates us :D

Freedom means a lot of things, including freedom to hate or love your country. Criticizing your government or certain institutions in your country should not be considered unpatriotic or "against freedom". Calling you unpatriotic when you don't agree 100% with the government or its institution is stupid. Only used by demagogues. You'd think it wouldn't exist in a "democracy"...

Nancy Allen``
05-17-2007, 09:40 PM
As long as there's a diffirence between patriotism and standing by your country, supporting your country, and things such as jingoism (the right to maim rape pillage slaughter and burn wherever you want whenever you want), blindly following the government regardless of what it does, that sort of thing, then patriotism is a great thing to have. Laying off the "I'm great because I'm American" attitude and instead pushing the "I love America because" attitude is the way to go.