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View Full Version : Rundown of OJP 009v's pre-release tests (READ FOR GR8 JUSTICE!)


Maxstate
05-26-2007, 02:33 PM
Getting better... much better!

OJP is starting to shape up and give me those tingles again I haven't felt for a few of the recent 009 releases. The whole thing seems so much more streamlined and the feel of the new and improved systems is totally right if you ask me.

I'll try to do this as so:


Pros:
-Excellent feel to the game, it already feels very professional.
-The music is terrific.
-The new profile GUI looks mighty fine and I think the crew (especially bjusterbaarlik) deserve a nice round of applause. It totally fits OJP just like the music score.
-The new saber style selection is awesome, and with proper tweaks can become the single most awesome thing in OJP (next to myself ofcourse .........................:p).
-The clone rifle's new changes really fit it well and the thing is actually fun to play with now, kudos.
-Deflection rates have finally been fxed and are pretty realistic righ tnow, I am very satisfied!
-The new changes to mishap are totally awesome and really bring more of an importance to the mishap bar in general, it was a bit ignored in the past because it moved either too slow or too fast. Perfect.
-The new changes to parrying (comboes and defense getting more time) are great, bring nice rhythm into the saberplay.

I could keep going on like this but I'll have to start the cons of 009v because the guys are waiting for me to start the damn game already, so here goes.

Just a few things I'd like to mention that bother me, this is not criticism or anything of the likes. But you know me, always something to whine about ;p.

Cons:
-The 'feel' of when you get deflected is kind of off. It's like there is no difference between deflecting and running, the only indicator you have that tells you you're deflecting is your DP meter slowly dropping. I don't see any valuable advice to give on how to fix this though. (blaster bolt)

-The transitions/spin animation speed changes make some spins look really damn unrealistic. I'm going to be changing them (still according to Razor Ace's endlosung) to make them seem more realistic for my own game and I'll discuss whatever I end up with with razor since I really don't like some of the transitions right now.

-Jump height.

-Fuel should not regen or should regen really slowly, or there should be a defined amount of fuel needed to use the flamethrower.

-Shots should take only one or two shots to kill someone outside of a dodge or deflection, it's still too easy for jedi to rush through a gunner's defenses.

And yeah that's pretty much it. OJPE is getting it's edges rounded off pretty well in 009v and I think it promises moar in terms of fun and gameplay than any other OJP thus far.


Comments/suggestions/own opinions/reviews go below this line:
__________________________________________________ ______

razorace
05-26-2007, 03:22 PM
-The 'feel' of when you get deflected is kind of off. It's like there is no difference between deflecting and running, the only indicator you have that tells you you're deflecting is your DP meter slowly dropping. I don't see any valuable advice to give on how to fix this though.
Which deflections? For saber or bolt attacks?
-The transitions/spin animation speed changes make some spins look really damn unrealistic. I'm going to be changing them (still according to Razor Ace's endlosung) to make them seem more realistic for my own game and I'll discuss whatever I end up with with razor since I really don't like some of the transitions right now.
Yeah, we probably need a minimum animation time for the sharp spins. maybe .25 secs or something.

- There's a problem with players spawning without their assigned skills. I'm working on that.
- Some LMS problems.

Maxstate
05-26-2007, 03:30 PM
I mean that some are too fast, don't get me wrong. Yellow for example is perfect but Juyo just looks dang nasty.

DarthDie
05-26-2007, 03:33 PM
Cons:
Seekers overpowerd.
Grips wayyyy underpowerd.
Edit:
Lotsa bugs :P.
EditEdit:
Cloak needs to be a bit more...cloakish.

razorace
05-26-2007, 06:06 PM
I mean that some are too fast, don't get me wrong. Yellow for example is perfect but Juyo just looks dang nasty.Yeah, that's what I meant too. Some of them are too fast and need to have minimum animation time that is a bit slower than "the standard".
Cons:
Seekers overpowerd.
Grips wayyyy underpowerd.Please explain.
Lotsa bugs :P.bug ticket.

DarthDie
05-26-2007, 07:38 PM
Seeker I think has too much damage.
Grip...I can never use it(maxstate and revovles agree too)...I have never actually used grip in OJP.

razorace
05-26-2007, 09:05 PM
I think the seeker just does the same amount of damage as the e11 does.

As for grip, it was really nerfed by Raven software for JKA. I probably need to go in and make it MUCH easier to use on people.

Lathain Valtiel
05-27-2007, 04:44 AM
Huh? Grip was nerfed in JA in general?

The only really significant nerf I am aware of is that you're no longer allowed to grip an opponent then duck behind the wall so they can't push or pull you.

TheShaman
05-27-2007, 06:13 AM
Maybe seeker should have pistol damage and not E11? It's already auto aim and controllable...

Maxstate
05-27-2007, 06:58 AM
Maybe it should just shoot less damn accurately?

madcatmach2
05-27-2007, 12:29 PM
well cant wait to have the v009v release to test out all these new features

razorace
05-27-2007, 02:57 PM
Huh? Grip was nerfed in JA in general?

The only really significant nerf I am aware of is that you're no longer allowed to grip an opponent then duck behind the wall so they can't push or pull you.
There's a lot more checks to be able to start a grip. I think you have to be a certain distance range, looking directly at a the player, etc.

Maxstate
05-30-2007, 04:24 PM
After some more extensive testing today we've found that:

(old edited)

Cons:
-The 'feel' of when you get deflected is kind of off. It's like there is no difference between deflecting and running, the only indicator you have that tells you you're deflecting is your DP meter slowly dropping. I don't see any valuable advice to give on how to fix this though. (blaster bolt)
This could be because the shot actually goes THROUGH you before it gets deflected, how about that saber bounding box for deflection that you were talking about Ace?


-The transitions/spin animation speed changes make some spins look really damn unrealistic. I'm going to be changing them (still according to Razor Ace's endlosung) to make them seem more realistic for my own game and I'll discuss whatever I end up with with razor since I really don't like some of the transitions right now.
I've gotten used to it now and I can't actually complain about it, I think that in heated battles with Force-trained Jedi there will be moments with comboes where they CAN move that fast, so lets leave it in as a feature, not a bug *cough*.

moar:

-Bunnyhopping has to go, just make every landing have a person stop their momentum and acceleration.

-Increase jump height!
Jump 1 --> jump 2 height
Jump 2 --> jump 3 height
Jump 3 --> jump as high as your force allows you.

This is very important for everyone that I've talked to, myself included.

-Some guns really need a secondary fire to make them worth while. E-11 should get a burst shot for example. That or aimed mode :p

-Blob has to go. It's too much of a gamebreaker right now to keep. It is one of the only things right now that can both induce nerd rage and ruin gameplay at the same time.

Gargoyle King
05-30-2007, 06:27 PM
I love OJP, it's really giving JA an overhaul and makes it worthwile to play again. Great job guys and kudos to you all!

:thumbsup:

JRHockney*
05-30-2007, 07:56 PM
-Bunnyhopping has to go, just make every landing have a person stop their momentum and acceleration.

I don't know. Its already pretty nerfed with the auto 10 fp cost.

-Increase jump height!
Jump 1 --> jump 2 height
Jump 2 --> jump 3 height
Jump 3 --> jump as high as your force allows you.

I suppose, but that might be over doing it just a bit.

-Some guns really need a secondary fire to make them worth while. E-11 should get a burst shot for example. That or aimed mode

Agreed.

-Blob has to go. It's too much of a gamebreaker right now to keep. It is one of the only things right now that can both induce nerd rage and ruin gameplay at the same time.

Not agreed. The blast radius is now tiny (I cut it in half) and it costs now 40 bullets to fire for a max of 10 shots at level 3 (I raised it). Theres a reason why its 8 8 8. Gunners need a good weapon that can fight a jedi well anyways.

I'd personally still like to see an autothrow thermal detonator button that can be used with guns out. And in come the Halo fans! :p

madcatmach2
05-30-2007, 10:24 PM
im still confused as to where to get V.0.9v as the Get OJP Here thread still has V.0.9u

UDM
05-30-2007, 11:26 PM
Same. I want to try it out but Max isn't replying me :(

Johnpp
05-31-2007, 03:40 AM
I suppose, but that might be over doing it just a bit.

I think that the jump hight now is over doing it. I have never seen the Jedi's jumping that high in the movies.

I mean, do you think a Jedi/Sith could really jump from one side of the Deathstar Trench to the other?

Maxstate
05-31-2007, 04:16 AM
Coleman trebor jumped all the way up to the platform where Dooku was standing and it was a good 50 meters up. Obi wan jumped pretty high when he had to rejoin quigon and maul, same for when he jumped out of his ship landing.

JackBaldy
05-31-2007, 08:36 AM
Coleman trebor jumped all the way up to the platform where Dooku was standing and it was a good 50 meters up. Obi wan jumped pretty high when he had to rejoin quigon and maul, same for when he jumped out of his ship landing.

Although you will rarely see me saying this, I agree with Max... *whistles*

TheShaman
05-31-2007, 02:06 PM
Also, the jump feeling is poor (this comes with basejka), I think MB improves that when you have jump 3, it really seems you jump, you go way faster in air, dunno if you get what I mean.

Look at how obi wan jumped on the catwalk in ep 1, it took him like 0.5 sec to reach it, in jka, and in OJP as it is now, it would take like 2 sec.

Also the jump sound is... stupid? useless? pointless? I'm for a removal. (Not of jump, of jump sound...)

razorace
05-31-2007, 04:34 PM
im still confused as to where to get V.0.9v as the Get OJP Here thread still has V.0.9u
v isn't technically out yet. I'm still working on some issues that need to be resolved first.

However, you can ask one of the test leads for the current beta, which is basically 009v without the needed fixes before public release.

BushidoBoy
06-02-2007, 02:25 PM
yo ive been with you guys 4 a little while and you guys are GOOD!!! The thing i suggest is do somthing about the saberlocking. Make it so that you could defend youself in a saberlock. i turned g_saberlocking off because i didnt like it lol. it would be cool if u could change this

razorace
06-02-2007, 03:21 PM
The latest beta has the ability to abort out of a saberlock by pressing back+altfire.

JRHockney*
06-02-2007, 03:27 PM
yo ive been with you guys 4 a little while and you guys are GOOD!!! The thing i suggest is do somthing about the saberlocking. Make it so that you could defend youself in a saberlock. i turned g_saberlocking off because i didnt like it lol. it would be cool if u could change this

We're glad your here. :) You have to parry the power attack in order to stop the saberlock. But don't worry. In 0.0.9v, we've made a "break out of lock" technique that works if you don't have low DP or high mishap.

v isn't technically out yet. I'm still working on some issues that need to be resolved first.


yeah, before v's official release, I think we definitely need to resolve things like the multi-hit lunge and spin attacks, the dodge vulnerability in forceblock, and adding saber style perks so there aren't bubbles on the skill menu for the saber styles that don't do anything :p Also, since you can't block lunge with under 10 FP, the staff and duel spin attacks should be the same way but currently are not. That one's easy and I might just do that myself.

Maxstate
06-02-2007, 06:31 PM
More:

-Hybrids should get a maximum of Absorb 2, this way they can not be totally forcewhored but they do have protection against force powers.
I think this would work out the best since push and pull are no longer enemies because of the shooting-from-the-ground skill, Grip and Lightning are the only things that gunners and hybrids should worry about. With Absorb 2 they can still play freely and not have to worry about them too much, but will still have to keep an eye open..

-Either make jetpack non-recharging or fix the physics for it. It's very lame and stupid to use and feels very "base-y". Also I would suggest making it cost a lot more and not letting FP/DP recharge while it's being used to avoid overuse of it. If every gunner has a jetpack the game stops being fun.

-Disable whatever you guys enabled for my points to keep adding themselves up.
When I get enough points, the system takes the skillpoints out of one of my level 1 skills and uses it to upgrade another skill to level 3 or 2, and it also automatically updates all of my skills, this has to stop.

-We need some sort of barrier to provide a bigger achievement level for buying new skills. Ace doesn't like the idea of a "Level up" system, and I don't like the current system of update everything immediately, /kill and move on. I would like to see skills being buyable at ocassions where you have enough, like when you get every 10 skillpoints or so.

razorace
06-02-2007, 07:53 PM
-Hybrids should get a maximum of Absorb 2, this way they can not be totally forcewhored but they do have protection against force powers.
I think this would work out the best since push and pull are no longer enemies because of the shooting-from-the-ground skill, Grip and Lightning are the only things that gunners and hybrids should worry about. With Absorb 2 they canstill play freely and not have to worry about them too much, but will stillhave to keep an eye open..
I don't think we need to do that. Gunners are just a vulnerable to MP as Jedi are, especially when using the clone rifle.

-Either make jetpack non-recharging or fix the physics for it. It's very lame and stupid to use and feels very "base-y". Also I would suggest making it cost a lot more and not letting FP/DP recharge while it's being used to avoid overuse of it. If every gunner has a jetpack the game stops being fun.
FP and DP shouldn't be regening while in midair anyway. :|

As for the jetpack, what kind of behavior would you guys like? I'm thinking short, quick bursts that make the player move very quickly in the commanded direction.
-Disable whatever you guys enabled for my points to keep adding themselves up.
When I get enough points, the system takes the skillpoints out of one of my level 1 skills and uses it to upgrade another skill to level 3 or 2, and it also automatically updates all of my skills, this has to stop.What? I don't know what you're talking about. :|

-We need some sort of barrier to provide a bigger achievement level for buying new skills. Ace doesn't like the idea of a "Level up" system, and I don't like the current system of update everything immediately, /kill and move on. I would like to see skills being buyable at ocassions where you have enough, like when you get every 10 skillpoints or so.
I don't understand what you mean by "bigger achievement level"? Do you mean it's too easy to get powers at the moment? A lot of that is related to the starting experience point level. A LOT of people are setting it way higher than it should be.

I have noticed that there are ways to get a LOT of exp rather quickly. I haven't figured out a way around that yet. Probably by making the kill EXP higher and the DP EXP lower.

Maxstate
06-02-2007, 08:10 PM
I don't think we need to do that. Gunners are just a vulnerable to MP as Jedi are, especially when using the clone rifle.

They aren't from what I've picked up in testing. And I'd rather have a jedi KNOW that their push will work rather than guessing how much mishap his opponent has, dude.


As for the jetpack, what kind of behavior would you guys like? I'm thinking short, quick bursts that make the player move very quickly in the commanded direction.
Sounds like a plan, much like the BF2 jetpacks for the darktroopers I hope. But it shouldn't be spammable.


What? I don't know what you're talking about. :|

Points auto-assign themselves for no reason!


I don't understand what you mean by "bigger achievement level"? Do you mean it's too easy to get powers at the moment? A lot of that is related to the starting experience point level. A LOT of people are setting it way higher than it should be.
It's like: "Oh I just killed this gunner and got some points for it, whooptydoo."
It should be: "Damn I've fought a lot and I've fought hard, I've more than earned my new powers!" </Jaden>

Just like in JKA you could only select weapons and force powers gradually throughout the game, that's something I want to see back. Dynamic updates are okay, but being able to get everything whenever and wherever is a tad silly.


I have noticed that there are ways to get a LOT of exp rather quickly. I haven't figured out a way around that yet. Probably by making the kill EXP higher and the DP EXP lower.
If this was a cvar I would set it to it's minimum. People don't respect their powers and gadgets and take a lot of things for granted.

TheShaman
06-03-2007, 06:03 AM
For the jetpack, I'd say MB2 way (I know this is not moviebattles blablawhatever, yet their jetpack is pretty good).
To nerf hybrids, maybe make the allowed force power level be the current level of seeing, so to get absorb 3, you'd need seeing 3, which costs more points, points which won't be used in gunnery.
Still to nerf hybrids, what about my knockdown system I proposed a few weeks ago?

Lathain Valtiel
06-03-2007, 06:17 AM
...Why do I have to keep saying this?

End the jetpack debate once and FOR ALL. Look at Promod 3. THAT is how it should be done: the jetpack is a simple high jump replacement with somewhat slower execution that strips you of any protection from push and pull you have while in use. This should not even be a discussion. JA's normal jetpack is an atrocity in comparison.

Next... I like absorb the way it is. It's not like I don't have to guess whether your DP is low enough for me to kill you with my rocket launcher when I fire.

Maxstate
06-03-2007, 06:58 AM
There are A LOT of checks you need to know and take advantage of with a high absorb hybrid:
-Force to the back
-Force while jumping
-Force at low DP
-Force at low FP
-Force at High mishap


And any combinations hereof!
I don't mind it myself but more and more people are playing this game, how can those people really go by all of these checks with a 16 man TFFA server? It should be "YES OR NO" and not "No or maybe".

Edit: I have never tried the promod jetpack :(

Also noone likes blobs. Period. They take this extremely fun and complex system down to taping the spacebar and the right mouse button, quake style. 3 gunners working as a team with blobs is really all you need to win from anyone.
If you guys are going to hold on so vigorously to this POS blob then at least make an item that can recharge weapons. I liked the FM3 system very much opposed to their gameplay, most Euros say that ammo runs out too quickly and there is no way to get it back, not even to buy extra ammo and no recharge function, so that's a point we could look at too. It would certainly help gunners vs hybrids and jedi.. and if guns actually got small clips for starters but could be reloaded to a certain amount before being able to be reloaded again, that would be even more fun. We would have a mixoff between MB's reloading and JKA's.

razorace
06-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Start a poll thread about removing blob. :)

As for ammo, it's normally not an issue for anything other than the heavy weapons, which is the way I like it. If players are running out of ammo, it means they took too many heavy weapons and not enough of the standard weapons like the e11, pistol, or bowcaster.

Maxstate
06-03-2007, 07:09 PM
But should a gunner be forced to take every weapon and gadget and use it or should they get the option to specialise and get more ammo/better $weapon ?

razorace
06-03-2007, 07:34 PM
Errr, right. But there has to be an upper limit to the amount of heavy weapon ammo the players can carry. It's a realism issue. If heavy weapons ALWAYS were better, then they'd be used more often in the movies.

Maxstate
06-03-2007, 07:36 PM
I'm saying that this is where my idea of additions or improvements come in. We're forcing gunners with points to spend to take the heavier weapons if they want to be effective at killing. I say either we give the highleveled weapons a bit more 'system' to them or get more skills that enable the lower category of weapons to work more efficiently.

tarbaby
06-04-2007, 07:34 AM
For what it's worth, I have to agree with Max: Light weapons are relatively ineffective, so you have to take a heavy one. With limited ammo, however, you have to purchase saber skills as well. I would offer two potential solutions:

1) keep gun and ammo pickups on the maps, but you cannot pick up the weapon/ammo unless you've already purchased it.

2) have an ammo pack purchase (6-8 pts). You use it like any other held device, but it reloads the weapon you are currently holding. Maybe you could put a 2-5 second delay on it to simulate re-loading (an reduce key-binding abuse). You could also limit the number of uses for each ammo pack


IMHO, as always

TB

Maxstate
06-04-2007, 08:25 AM
2) have an ammo pack purchase (6-8 pts). You use it like any other held device, but it reloads the weapon you are currently holding. Maybe you could put a 2-5 second delay on it to simulate re-loading (an reduce key-binding abuse). You could also limit the number of uses for each ammo pack


TB

Lozzle!

This'n.

Orj
06-04-2007, 09:01 AM
Sorry, this is off topic, but what is this Promod 3 I keep hearing about?

DarthDie
06-04-2007, 10:13 AM
Tanquexe says he thinks its a JO (Jedi Outcast) mod.

TheShaman
06-04-2007, 11:36 AM
Well, this is repeating, but MB2's jetpack is like... perfect, isn't it? Also I need to try out that promod 3, is it jk2 only? I played promod 2 on jk2, where you had a level in using gun and items...

razorace
06-04-2007, 02:12 PM
It's a old-school JKO mod. It had a rock, paper, scissors saber style balancing and had the saber system behavior be based on the player aimming at other players. Lath could probably tell you more.

A lot of people liked it, but the author had a bit of stress meltdown and quit the scene.

Lathain Valtiel
06-05-2007, 11:44 PM
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/file/ProMod;10051

The holy king of JO mods. Use its jetpack. Marvel at how it crushes all competition. No more needs to be said for this truth is self-evident: Promod's jetpack is the best for what we want.

...Pity the source isn't available. Wudan might have it.

TheShaman
06-06-2007, 06:00 AM
Ok, but if the jetpack's source is not avaible, I suggest you implement MB2 jetpack system, still better than that weird JKA one.

razorace
06-06-2007, 02:13 PM
Or I could just do it myself and do it better and faster than porting something. :P

Lathain Valtiel
06-06-2007, 02:14 PM
That's what I was about to say, actually.

"Why can't razor just copy it?"

Seriously Raz, try it out. I think you'll like how it works. It's barely better than Force Jump.

TheShaman
06-07-2007, 05:54 AM
Razor, you've done so many amazing things ^^. I'd be glad if you did a cool jetpack.
:D