PDA

View Full Version : Ubuntu Advice!


Sabretooth
05-27-2007, 10:16 AM
Finally, my dad's 10GB Windows ME drive was mysteriously sabotaged. Don't ask me why he prefers ME over anything, just read on. We're cool with the 80GB WinXP drive, but it's a good idea to keep two OSs running. We have the ME to throw in again, but I've been thinking of Ubuntu, and dad thought it's okay too.

So before taking the plunge, I thought I'd ask if anyone was using Ubuntu. How do you go about installing it on a separate drive on the same computer? Do you get a choice screen during start-up, like you would with a Double-Windows machine? Is it true that Ubuntus never crash, or freeze or so on. Most of all, is it easy to use (my dad can get cranky if things aren't easy enough)?


(And BTW, WTH are the "Guided Mode" and "Enhanced Mode" options above the post editor?)

stingerhs
05-27-2007, 12:46 PM
first, make sure you have the latest version (7.3 is the latest, i think). second, installing Ubuntu is a snap. once the CD image is burned to a disk, all you have to do is to make sure your BIOS is set to boot from the CD drive before the hard drives. then, you just need the Ubuntu disk in the CD drive during startup.

from there, Ubuntu will boot from the CD, and you can effectively mess around a bit with Ubuntu without ever installing it to a hard drive to try it out. if you like it, then go to the top left with the main menu and select to install Ubuntu to a hard drive. from there, you can indeed choose to install Ubuntu to a specific drive or partition. just be aware that you might have to format the HD/partition first. if you want the Hard Drive to be read by Windows, the partition has to be a FAT32 format (i don't know if they finally have support for the boot sectors to be formatted in NTFS or not, so i won't recommend that just now. i know Ubuntu can read NTFS partitions with 3rd party software, but i don't know about writing to it.)

once you take care of the hard drive formatting, you can then install Ubuntu, which is usually quick and somewhat painless. once its installed, you might have to check and see if any devices are missing drivers. in that case, you'll want to use Google to find Linux drivers for the devices.

after you take care of that, you should be good to go. Ubuntu is even more stable than XP, and it does have some great built-in apps that covers most of the basics. there is some free stuff out there that covers most of the specialty apps (Photoshop, etc) for Linux, so if you need it, then look for it. stability isn't perfect (especially if you have driver conflicts), but it is better than Windows from what i've seen.

hope that helps. :)

Det. Bart Lasiter
05-27-2007, 09:35 PM
(i don't know if they finally have support for the boot sectors to be formatted in NTFS or not, so i won't recommend that just now. i know Ubuntu can read NTFS partitions with 3rd party software, but i don't know about writing to it.)
http://www.ntfs-3g.org/support.html#rootfs

Sabretooth
05-28-2007, 06:10 AM
Thx, that would be helpful, I suppose. The latest one is 7.4 "Feisty Fawn", last I checked. Not that I really need a Linux, but it'd great to see how the world outside Windows is. :p

Det. Bart Lasiter
05-29-2007, 08:00 AM
It's filled with eyecandy and Wine and gumdrops.

Sabretooth
06-05-2007, 12:06 AM
Ah, so here I am on my shiny new Ubuntu. It is definitely an impressive OS - easy to use, though takes some getting used to. I like the way there are step-by-step instructions for everything Ubuntu all over the web. :) It does lack a bit of polish and tends to slow down with a lot of applications - especially audio and video applications.

Otherwise it is a fine alternative to Windows. I feel like a man now. :)

stingerhs
06-05-2007, 01:08 AM
^^^^
as an official Linux user, i now officially welcome you to Geekdom. enjoy your stay. :)

Sabretooth
06-05-2007, 03:05 AM
Say, does anyone know a good audio player? I didn't like Rythmplayer (o whatever it was) and Movie Player goes horribly slow. I tried Amarok and Kaffeine, but they don't seem to play files. I try to play a file and it goes back to the play button instead of the pause. Then once I got a dialog saying that Amarok couldn't play MP3, but the actual content of the dialog never came up (the title bar was the only thing visible). This is the only thing where I'm having a problem.

stingerhs
06-05-2007, 02:30 PM
^^^^
VLC Player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ubuntu.html). get it, use it, love it. ;)

CLONECOMMANDER501
06-05-2007, 03:08 PM
Be careful, an old friend of mine lost 2 computers to linux.

Ray Jones
06-06-2007, 11:45 AM
and tends to slow down with a lot of applications - especially audio and video applications.RAM. RAM. RAM. And again - RAM.


Say, does anyone know a good audio player?Try mplayer or xmms. These are not good, but excellent! =)

Det. Bart Lasiter
06-06-2007, 03:18 PM
I'd recommend going with smplayer (http://smplayer.sourceforge.net/) over mplayer, it has better support for subtitles and is easier to configure.

Sabretooth
06-07-2007, 12:59 AM
RAM. RAM. RAM. And again - RAM

I have a hefty 512 MB of RAM, good sir and an additional 128 MB worth VRAM.

Wow, I didn't know VLC was available for Ubuntu. Guess I'll take that one, then. Thanks all, I'll report more problems if they crop up :xp:

Ray Jones
06-07-2007, 09:37 AM
For "a lot of applications" including audio and video stuff, 512MB is like nothing. And it depend to the rest of your system specs, too. I mean, a years old 10 GiB harddrive isn't really what you would use for a system which needs to load data fast and at constant rate. For that I'd advise you to plug in a newer SATA disk or the like, and use the XFS filesystem, which is indeed err.. fast.

SMPlayer.. mhh, didn't know about it. But it's from SuSE and SuSE is the devil. It looks good, nonetheless. Maybe I'll give it a try and check the source.

Sabretooth
06-07-2007, 10:12 AM
For "a lot of applications" including audio and video stuff, 512MB is like nothing. And it depend to the rest of your system specs, too. I mean, a years old 10 GiB harddrive isn't really what you would use for a system which needs to load data fast and at constant rate. For that I'd advise you to plug in a newer SATA disk or the like, and use the XFS filesystem, which is indeed err.. fast..

Well, I meant about 4-5 programs at a time. Let's take for example, Firefox, an audio player, a word application and one of Ubuntu's fine collection of little games. That does make the system somewhat sluggish, while XP seems to run perfectly well even if I doubled each window of the above.

I hear the Xfce or KDE desktops make things faster. Is it possible to get those on Ubuntu without having to install Xubuntu or Kubuntu?

Ray Jones
06-07-2007, 10:35 AM
Well, I meant about 4-5 programs at a time. Let's take for example, Firefox, an audio player, a word application and one of Ubuntu's fine collection of little games. That does make the system somewhat sluggish, while XP seems to run perfectly well even if I doubled each window of the above. Well, XP is on another hard disk, eh? Err and, XP has "Ubuntu's fine collection of little games"? Wow. :xp:

What graphic card driver are you using?

Sabretooth
06-08-2007, 01:26 AM
Well, XP is on another hard disk, eh? Err and, XP has "Ubuntu's fine collection of little games"? Wow. :xp:

What graphic card driver are you using?

Heh, well let's take Minesweeper as an example. :xp:

Graphic card driver? Good question. I have an nVidia GeForce FX 5200 w/ 128 MB VRAM. It's showing up in Ubuntu's hardware profile thing, so I guess it might be having the driver. Besides, when I was trying out "Desktop Effects" it said that nVidia's driver was required and it installed it. So, I guess I have the latest driver. Still, if it's necessary to download a driver from nVidia's page, what option do I select in the OS section? (options are Linux x86, Linux x64, Solaris and FreeBSD) I'm guessing Linux x64...

stingerhs
06-08-2007, 08:20 AM
actually, its usually as simple as looking at the original .iso CD-image file. the x64 version has "AMD64" at the end of the filename, even if you're installing it on a Core2, Xeon, or Itanium based compy.

another way to check, if i can remember correctly (i'm not on my Kubuntu compy at the moment), is to check your system information. it should tell you there if you have the x86 version or the x64 version.

oh, and for you sake, i hope you don't have to install the drivers via command line. its not a bad idea to learn, but its a pain in the arse for a novice. anyways, good luck with the install. :)

Ray Jones
06-08-2007, 10:29 AM
Huh? Nah, it's easy. And if you're on an selfmade kernel, you can't do anything but install/compile it yourself.

Graphic card driver? Good question. I have an nVidia GeForce FX 5200 w/ 128 MB VRAM. It's showing up in Ubuntu's hardware profile thing, so I guess it might be having the driver. Besides, when I was trying out "Desktop Effects" it said that nVidia's driver was required and it installed it. So, I guess I have the latest driver.A glxinfo | grep -A2 vendor should give you something likeXXXXXXX@ms-linux:~> glxinfo | grep -A2 vendor
server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
server glx version string: 1.4
server glx extensions:
--
client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
--
OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 6100/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL version string: 2.1.0 NVIDIA 96.31
XXXXXXX@ms-linux:~>which means you're in :)

Still, if it's necessary to download a driver from nVidia's page, what option do I select in the OS section? (options are Linux x86, Linux x64, Solaris and FreeBSD) I'm guessing Linux x64...If you've picked the wrong, it will tell you.

Sabretooth
06-08-2007, 12:10 PM
A glxinfo | grep -A2 vendor should give you something likeXXXXXXX@ms-linux:~> glxinfo | grep -A2 vendor
server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
server glx version string: 1.4
server glx extensions:
--
client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
--
OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 6100/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL version string: 2.1.0 NVIDIA 96.31
XXXXXXX@ms-linux:~>which means you're in :)

Well, I'm getting the exact same thing (Except the graphic card, of course). Woo, I have the latest drivers.

@stinger: Believe me, shooting my probs at the Ubuntu community, I've had my share of Novice command-writing. :xp: Great to learn how to use that damned terminal. Reminds me of my DOS days...

Ray Jones
06-08-2007, 03:18 PM
Latest? Neenee. This is latest (beta):
ray@FBiNC:~$ glxinfo | grep -A2 vendor
server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
server glx version string: 1.4
server glx extensions:
--
client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
--
OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer string: GeForce Go 7400/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL version string: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.06
ray@FBiNC:~$ :)

Sabretooth
06-08-2007, 11:03 PM
I need no damned beta drivers. I don't feel safe without the certified tag on things - except harmless applications. Those I'd go for beta-testing. :)

Astrotoy7
06-08-2007, 11:41 PM
^^^^
enjoy your stay. :)

lolz...are you implying sabre will ditch when he eventually gets Vista and DX10 to play <insert 1337 DX10 game here>


the answer be yes :)

btw Sabre - dont forget open office, so you can go on an adventure in Time Travel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel) - the year will be 1997 and you'll think just bought a shiny copy of Office 97.

(no 2003 dynamic ribbon in that one Im afraid) ;)

Ok, I'll stop mucking about - but I couldnt resist a quick jab, you crazy Linux kids, you

anyways, keep up the great work :) Ist always nice to have some Linux pros around a techie place

* * *

also sabre, dont expect an WHQL(style) certification for drivers for an *open source* OS. Thats the point of a OSOS...(open source op sys) Who will be accountable if the drivers fail.... *no one except you* and getting support is a quest worthy of The Fellowship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_the_ring)

still, good luck - always good to try new stuff - a great opportunity to learn, even if you dont end up adopting it as a mainstay :)

mtfbwya

Det. Bart Lasiter
06-09-2007, 12:07 AM
btw Sabre - dont forget open office, so you can go on an adventure in Time Travel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel) - the year will be 1997 and you'll think just bought a shiny copy of Office 97.

(no 2003 dynamic ribbon in that one Im afraid) ;)

Ok, I'll stop mucking about - but I couldnt resist a quick jab, you crazy Linux kids, you
Don't forget Wine either, that way you can run MS Office even though OpenOffice is on its way to becoming the new document standard.

keke

Astrotoy7
06-09-2007, 09:14 AM
Don't forget Wine either, that way you can run MS Office even though OpenOffice is on its way to becoming the new document standard.

keke

jmac...I'll paypal you $1 to buy a coke, if in 5 years OpenOffice has come anywhere near to that claim. Linux fans have been rabbiting on about it being 'on the verge of becoming a major mainstream alternative' for as long as I can damn remember.

As for Office on wine ?? Thats makes no sense. The beauty of open source = free, right ??

If someone is going to buy MS office, Id venture to say they can afford Vista basic, which is 1/3 of the cost(as oem). If you are not buying office but using it, then I daresay you will know how to not buy Vista/XP and still use it :)

lolz...wine reminds me of running a gameboy emulator on my pda. close, but its not the same, and will never work all time, exactly the way you want it to...

The juggernauts will always win, they have the $$$ to pay people to work on things and provide *support* <<<this last word is really important to understanding why the 'mainstream' thing will never work. Most people simply do not have the knowledge or confidence to problem solve their own pc issues.

for servers and geeks. Linux is king. For everything else, follow the buck :)

I wish it were different, but in a capitalist society, no.

mtfbwya

Sabretooth
06-09-2007, 09:37 AM
OpenOffice comes bundled with Ubuntu, so that's alright. I'm starting to like it, too. I tried Wine and it does a fine job of running a few games, with a bit of lagging, of course.

@Astro: No, man. I don't search for WHQL-certified stuff everywhere. I know I'm out of the city and into the village now. I know the cow has horns.

But you're right on the Office on Wine part. Using Wine for something like Office instead of the free and open-source OpenOffice is just werd. That's like *shudder* running Internet Explorer on Wine, instead of God.

Det. Bart Lasiter
06-09-2007, 11:02 AM
jmac...I'll paypal you $1 to buy a coke, if in 5 years OpenOffice has come anywhere near to that claim. Linux fans have been rabbiting on about it being 'on the verge of becoming a major mainstream alternative' for as long as I can damn remember.Except now you see businesses and governments either switching to it or thinking about switching to it, so it's not just talk.

As for Office on wine ?? Thats makes no sense. The beauty of open source = free, right ??You don't see me running my mouth about the beauty of open source. I'm just countering your point by saying that Linux-users aren't stuck with open source alternatives.

Jeff
06-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Maybe I'm just weird, but I use OpenOffice in Windows as well as Ubuntu.

Det. Bart Lasiter
06-09-2007, 11:55 AM
I do too, I don't see the need to waste money on Office when OOo supports Office formats anyway.

stingerhs
06-09-2007, 12:02 PM
jmac...I'll paypal you $1 to buy a coke, if in 5 years OpenOffice has come anywhere near to that claim. Linux fans have been rabbiting on about it being 'on the verge of becoming a major mainstream alternative' for as long as I can damn remember.it *is* an alternative to M$ Office. i just got done taking my final M$ Office class last year, and unknown to my professor, i did every single project for the class in OpenOffice instead of M$ Office. i'll admit that its not quite as user friendly as M$ Office, but it was able to do everything i wanted it to do without a fuss.The juggernauts will always winnot in Star Wars. :xp:

RoxStar
06-09-2007, 11:48 PM
Be careful, an old friend of mine lost 2 computers to linux.


One hell of a klutz to lose a computer ;)

Det. Bart Lasiter
06-10-2007, 12:08 AM
It's all part of the seedy underbelly of the open source community.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/open_source.png

Astrotoy7
06-10-2007, 05:00 AM
....not in Star Wars. :xp:

lozl...you obviously didnt read on stinger....The New Republic(and its subsequent incarnations) becomes its own juggernaut, as does Lukes Jedi Academy.

Its simply the way of the universe to replace one dominating vision with another... look at the French Revolution... one of the most definitive political events in modern history... so many of those that bayed for the Kings blood in the name of "Liberty and Equality" were the ones that installed Napoleon into power as Emperor and dictator, within the space of a generation ! crazy.

Except now you see businesses and governments either switching to it or thinking about switching to it, so it's not just talk.

You better hope it is just talk....When govts and corporations get a hold of open source, all that is good and lovely about the idea of OS sits on a dangerous precipice. It would be great if it would be something implemented in schools etc...but then again....theres the support question(as always!)

Its like at Enterprise Level, you think people like Novell arent making money off Linux ??

In a world where piracy is so widespread and absolute, the one tiny glint of beauty that OSource offers to so many "average users" (ie. non cost), is cancelled out. This is good, or bad, only depending on who you ask :)

@Sabre. Location noted. I Understand your affection for cows - even the ones with horns :) Carry ond with the grand experiment sir!!

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
06-10-2007, 05:28 AM
Except now you see businesses and governments either switching to it or thinking about switching to it, so it's not just talk.Being a computer tech monkey, I can totally second that. Saving licensing costs is one of the arguments for the Linux based desktop. And in the server sector it is superior to Windows anyway.

You don't see me running my mouth about the beauty of open source. I'm just countering your point by saying that Linux-users aren't stuck with open source alternatives.Indeed. Also, I predict a huge increase of Linux home desktops when the gaming industry will find out they actually have a market with the open source community. Missing native game support is THE reason for users who switched to Linux to keep a Windows installation.



lolz...wine reminds me of running a gameboy emulator on my pda. close, but its not the same, and will never work all time, exactly the way you want it to...Okay, but Windows does work all the time exactly like I want it to? -- Let's say it together: NO IT DOESN'T. Even more, if I want a certain feature/program, I have to pay money, money, and more money. Then when I get it, it is still not the way I want it. So I wait for the next version of that program and SURPRISE I'll need the next Windows version for it, so I'll have to pay again, for the new Windows and the next software version, which now has the feature I needed but lacks some I cannot live without either. :dozey:
Also, everybody on this planet can participate on the WINE or any open source project, to enhance it, that's the very idea of it. So if I want something to work the way I want, why not support an open source project with that money to get exactly what I want, instead of wasting money for stupid bells and whistles for programs which basically didn't change since stone age.

It would be great if it would be something implemented in schools etc...but then again....theres the support question(as always!)This where you can make real money with: support for open source projects. See Codeweavers and the WINE project.

Its like at Enterprise Level, you think people like Novell arent making money off Linux ??Of course they do. Why not? open source doesn't mean don't make money with it.



OpenOffice comes bundled with Ubuntu, so that's alright. I'm starting to like it, too. I tried Wine and it does a fine job of running a few games, with a bit of lagging, of course.Check their AppDB to see what runs. (http://appdb.winehq.org/browse_by_rating.php)

But you're right on the Office on Wine part. Using Wine for something like Office instead of the free and open-source OpenOffice is just werd. That's like *shudder* running Internet Explorer on Wine, instead of God.No, it's like using IE to test the website you've designed without that you have to keep a Windows installation.


[edit]

When govts and corporations get a hold of open source, all that is good and lovely about the idea of OS sits on a dangerous precipice.
On a second thought, how'd one get a hold of the principle of open source software? Also, I rather see governments use open source than close source where no one knows what's in it.

Astrotoy7
06-10-2007, 01:49 PM
....Indeed. Also, I predict a huge increase of Linux home desktops when the gaming industry will find out they actually have a market with the open source community. Missing native game support is THE reason for users who switched to Linux to keep a Windows installation.....

yes! this is the zillion dollar question. Think of the absolutely huge amounts of money involved and at stake in the gaming slice alone. MS puts so much resources into this, is it really at all likely that they are going to get knocked off by an OS gig ??

It would be a financial catastrophe of epic proportions if MS dropped the ball on gaming. With the 360 being integrated directly to windows based pcs through media center and xbox live for gaming, it is really hard to imagine anything remotely competing with this for a while to come. The only alternatives are the other consoles, and totem tennis, but thats about it :D

Even Apple, who probably have the $$$ to become a major competitor in this area, have chosen not to. They simply havent, as theyve found their niche and are doing just as well with that.

There are also the emulation/compatibility options in Mac to give apple users access to windows functionaility - but still.. it doesnt really eliminate the need for a windows OS does it. I think this type of application is as close as Linux will get. Their niche was discovered by govts, military etc a long time ago, in terms of server applications - of which no one can argue they dont do a fantastic job(as long as there's input, supervision and support by the likes of Novell etc)

It will be interesting to see what impact Longhorn server will have. Those using server 2k3 may upgrade. Im no server expert by any means but network admins Ive come across have been quite excited about the increased scope to integrate linux + longhorn based infrastructures... still, its not my bag o tricks so I cant say much else :)

MS has alot of pennies riding on DX10 to cement vista as the OS of choice for gamers. It really is still up in the air, because not much has been seen in a real life context. For the moment though, 90%+ of power/lan gamers I know use xp as their OS of choice. (The nerdier ones dual boot Linux...damn nerds ;)) The vista early adopters Ive come across are chiefly those in the practise of building home theatre pcs. Vista is a signifcant improvement on xp media center edition 2005. Theres no doubt about it(as long as you use appropriate hardware, not the P3/4 your dad gave you when you had a mullet)

anwyay, great discussion! I always like hearing rational debates about this stuff... not the ""WindO3Ws in l4m3..LinXXX pwnZ"", or the one eyed MS/Apple/Linux nazi rally lovefests you come across elsewhere.

good job LFN techies :)

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
06-10-2007, 06:22 PM
in terms of server applications - of which no one can argue they dont do a fantastic job(as long as there's input, supervision and support by the likes of Novell etc)There's enough excellent non professional support you can get throughout the whole net. ;)


And there's also a market for like anything based on Linux. Thin clients, desktops, dedicated hardware, servers. It's all working perfectly. From the administrative and user point of view.

All I say is, there is a more than valid alternative to just Windows. My experience is, if it were not for games, many people I know would not feel the need to touch Windows. And why shouldn't I buy games for my Linux platform? Just because someone is using an open source OS doesn't mean you can't sell that user software for it (Oracle, VMware). And if a program is so much better than it's open source pendant then common-linux-user-people will buy it.

Astrotoy7
06-11-2007, 04:59 AM
.... My experience is, if it were not for games, many people I know would not feel the need to touch Windows. .....

We all move in different circles, of course :) All the people I know who are more than ''average users'' are Lan gamers(mostly xp), home theater pc builders/owners(now mostly vista) and digital artists, film/video editors(the mac crowd)...

The ones I do know who do the Linux thang are hardcore coders/compy engineering students and geeks that really have a far superior knowledge of tech to be pleased with something so market driven, catered and polished as win or mac ;) Which makes sense I guess :)

I personally am really enjoying vista ultimate. It also cost me zilch(got an RTM through my employers TechNet subscription...the IT guy at work owed me *big time* for doing his extensive home theater setup :D ) Also got Office 2007 this way ;)

Vista media center is almost flawless(the library system needs a tweak - but that is WMPs fault really) and the only problem Ive had gaming is Tiger Woods 2007....damn you EA! Theyve even said, "yep, we'll fix that...in TW 2008!!" The nerve ... :( Everything else I play is dandy :D Im also involved in the windows home server beta(a tweaked server 2k3 lite), and for a server n00b like me - I have to admit - Im really enjoying its ease of use and functionality.

I have loaded ubuntu once about a year ago, just to have a squiz'n'play. Quite nice visually..but wiped it when I sold that laptop :)

mtfbwya

BongoBob
06-15-2007, 10:07 PM
Be careful, an old friend of mine lost 2 computers to linux.

Que?

I need more details, like exactly how he lost them to linux, because frankly that smells like a load of crap ;)

Sabretooth, welcome to the ubuntu community :)

If you're looking to game on ubuntu, in addition to wine I'd look around certain websites that start with iso and end in hunt for cedega. Some games work great in one, but not the other. I get better performance in Wine with CS:S then I do in cedega, but better performance in WoW with cedega then I do with wine.

Also, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory is natively supported on Linux, and is fun as hell to boot :)

Sabretooth
06-15-2007, 11:19 PM
Well I did try Wine and it seems decent enough. But I'm still more comfortable gaming on my XP, thank you. :p

stingerhs
06-16-2007, 12:13 AM
^^^^
Official Wolfenstein FAQ for Linux (http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/wolf/)