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View Full Version : Should OJP Enhanced Include Maps, Models, and Hilts?


razorace
06-02-2007, 02:32 PM
Since OJP Enhanced requires a download for the client anyway, should we maybe include some quality maps, models, and hilts to give OJP Enhanced a visual edge over basejka?

And if so, should we have a certain theme or just things we like (like the betatester's preferred playermodels)?

Finally, if we go ahead and do this, I'm going to need a volunteer who will figure out which things should be included and get permission from the original authors. (I can handle making them a part of the repository/OJP install file).

biosky
06-02-2007, 02:45 PM
no :)

Maxstate
06-02-2007, 05:25 PM
Yes.

People that are voting "No" most likely are in it to use it as their own platform, when all of us do all the hard work. Much harder to wipe off a theme, maps and models than it is to just jump right in with JKA++++++.

I'm voting yes since I still think OJP can do a lot better if there were a common theme and CONTROLLED fights.

Tanqexe
06-02-2007, 06:03 PM
LOL who are these "no" guys? I want to know why they vote no.

Right now OJP is a collection of innovative systems. We need something to tie it all together and make it truly distinct - gameplay, visual, audio, everything. We have interested mappers, we have interested modelers, I think they're ready to jump in and help develop NEW things exclusively for OJP (thrillhouse is on the ball already). I say we stick to a common theme.

Maxstate
06-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Click the numbers in the poll!

Tanqexe
06-02-2007, 06:06 PM
D'oh, never knew that.

razorace
06-02-2007, 06:35 PM
I didn't either. Cool stuff. :)

Lathain Valtiel
06-02-2007, 09:08 PM
Yeah, it's a pretty nice feature. I made something similar for my own forums.

Anyhoo. If this is done you would all be fools not to include the Raven bonus maps at the very least. And maybe the JK2 maps.

Inyri
06-02-2007, 09:51 PM
Don't include extra stuff unless your team is making it themselves. People can easily download the other content, and it won't inflate the size of your downloads. Plus it keeps you from 'stealing' downloads from those modders. It doesn't really make sense to include such content unless some kind of compatibility needs to happen, and I take it that's not the case.

Lathain Valtiel
06-02-2007, 11:08 PM
Except there's the inherent problem of getting people to DL the stuff if it's seperate.

I could never get more than a few people to grab Raven's extra maps or the mighty JK2 maps.

UDM
06-02-2007, 11:23 PM
I agree with Inyri: why don't we have a list of recommended mods to use with OJP instead? I for one don't like to use others' work just for the sake of convenience. Besides, it'll unnecessarily bloat up the size of the download. So, instead of packaging others' maps/models together, why don't we just have jot down a separate list of good maps/models to use with OJP, and stick this list up in the website and the ojpenhanced's docs folder?

madcatmach2
06-03-2007, 01:33 AM
i think some custom hilts and maps could give OJP a nice little visual boost i mean a lout of people love MBII because of some of the awesome maps that they have

razorace
06-03-2007, 01:44 AM
Yeah. I've noticed that people tend to ignore the mod because they aren't reeled-in by new content that they can plainly see with a screenshot.

TheShaman
06-03-2007, 04:58 AM
Yes because nowadays, people love mods which give you models and maps, they mainly look at that (look at kotf's success... because it's a model pack).
Although it needs a theme not to be messy, but I don't know what kind of theme yet.

I think that Hapslash and VM models should be included for sure, for their high quality (the best models I've ever seen).

Maxstate
06-03-2007, 06:03 AM
Well I've got permission for LDJ's maps, omeewan's high quality SW models, War_shark's DE-10 blaster pistol and some other stuff I forgot.

I think we should just pick a ******** theme and get maps and models from that theme. The most important part of a theme for me is that we won't have dooku + blob rifle + jetpack vs Luke + disruptor + forcefield, which is too basish for me to enjoy.

Lathain is right here. I have the JK2 maps ripped with textures and all into one big file in my ojpenhanced folder and sometimes I play them on coop to see how far I can get without crashing. Well some of them won't load but you can play others to the end pretty much! It's a shame that others won't download it. Cairn_bay is an excellent dueling spot if anything. *JO flashback*

razorace
06-03-2007, 05:48 PM
As a theme, maybe we should go for providing the maps for all the personal duels that have occurred in the movies (Obi/Qui-Gon vs Maul, Dooku vs Yoda, etc). That would limit the scope a bit and empasize the saber combat.

After that, I think we could add additional items in phases based on theme. For example, we could add in the jk2 maps and models with a map pack or maybe as part of a new release or something.

What do you guys think?

Maxstate
06-03-2007, 06:22 PM
I personally think that Team FFA/CTF seems to be the gametype of choice for the betatesting guys. The saber combat should be emphasized upon but only after secure and completely balance out the gunner/hybrid vs Jedi combat. I think we can do this by disallowing either jump or absorb from their repertoire or penalizing gunners for taking jedi powers and vice versa. Other than that the jetpack needs to be tweaked but this was already clear.

I don't know about the theme and stuff. I'd like to see maximum customizability but still maintain some realism in there. Not planning on expressing my thoughts just yet since I still feel we should concentrate on other things for now.

razorace
06-03-2007, 06:45 PM
really?! I normally play FFA myself. I guess if that's what the majority of the players like, we could go with that style of gameplay for the theme. I'll start a poll thread. :)

EDIT: I mean FFA.

ensiform
06-03-2007, 11:15 PM
<std::string("Hello World!"): 2. Negative>

...

Lathain Valtiel
06-04-2007, 12:07 AM
I see no point in including models... Hilts and maps 'maybe', since if you join the server without them you're boned, but not so much with models.

Maxstate
06-04-2007, 03:09 AM
Pretty dumb reason seeing how MBII has been doing it like this for years and they have no trouble at all. It can either be everything together, or we could put all the hilts, maps and models in different, simple PK3's that are downloadable from the same source.

If we put them with OJP they get installed with the installer.

tarbaby
06-04-2007, 06:58 AM
Yes, for a couple of reasons:

1) Base maps are just old. After 3 years (I got the game late), I'm just plain bored with the standard maps (even the bonus pack)...especially CTF Hoth!

2) I find a server but I don't have the map so I switch off full screen mode, so I can toggle to my web browser and I find a pen to write down the web site (or map name) then I toggle out of the game and do an online search so I can find the server's web site, download the map, and place the .pk3 into my base file and then I restart the game to load the map and go back and find the server I was playing on and finally, 10-15 minutes later I discover I really don't like this server's rules so I go find another server but I don't have the map so I....(I think you get the idea!).

3) You can make the maps TABBot friendly to show off the improved AI


I would say 1-2 maps of each gametype (CTF/CTY; FFA/TFFA/JM; Duel); 30-40 MB maximum. Hilts optional. Don't bother with models.

TheShaman
06-04-2007, 10:32 AM
I'm for different PK3's.
-Main OJP
-Maps
-Models + hilts

Johnpp
06-05-2007, 05:15 AM
And, for simplicity, you could merge all maps/models into one single .PK3 file, so you will not have newbie's coming in asking what to put in and what-not.

razorace
06-05-2007, 01:33 PM
Our shiny new installer can handle all that stuff for them. :)

Lathain Valtiel
06-05-2007, 10:56 PM
If we do have models, I request that one condition above all be fufilled:

There better not be a dual saber bug. It utterly destroyed my enjoyment of KMan's Samus model, that bug.

razorace
06-05-2007, 11:00 PM
I assume you mean the JKO backwards compatibility issue? I agree, models with that problem shouldn't be included.

Lathain Valtiel
06-05-2007, 11:00 PM
It pisses me off when they release 'JA compatible' models with that bug. False labeling, that.

Johnpp
06-06-2007, 01:57 AM
What can they do? If a model is made for JKO, it will work in JA but with issues to the dual and staff stances.
I think it is because the JO models don't have the right tags in them.
Or they use the JO skeleton, which would not have the Ja animations.

Either way, you could just edit them to work with Ja.

Lathain Valtiel
06-06-2007, 01:10 PM
Except that they weren't edited, so the point is moot. Regardless such models are retarded and should be immediately disqualified from inclusion. I'm looking at, say, Quinlan Vos.

TheShaman
06-07-2007, 04:56 AM
I agree. No buggy models, that totally ruins a good mod.

Johnpp
06-08-2007, 04:13 AM
Yeah, I do agree with you guys.

Buggy models ruined MB2, for example. Of course, it may just have been me, but was the SBD, kinda, bugged? Is he meant to hold his arm over his head?

thrillhouse222
06-08-2007, 02:09 PM
i'm all up for making new models and player models and hilts and all that jazz.. but who is the mapper?
so far i've only heard of one...

Maxstate
06-08-2007, 03:39 PM
i'm all up for making new models and player models and hilts and all that jazz.. but who is the mapper?
so far i've only heard of one...

I might have something for you... hang on...:

*real time search*

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster

Scroll down and you can select blasters by type and you have a shi'ite load of reference pics and info to go on if you're interested in that :)

thrillhouse222
06-08-2007, 03:53 PM
you guys want those blasters made? alright... lol! blasters are easy...
the hard part is getting them weighted and in game.

Maxstate
06-08-2007, 03:54 PM
You don't HAVE to make those, just trying to uhh get you inspired if you're not quite sure on what to do next :D

thrillhouse222
06-08-2007, 04:20 PM
I like direction though... anything you guys give me i'll try to come up with something that will work.

so if you guys have any ideas for something new to put in game... i'll work something up in max for it.

hint.... new player models anybody?

oops did I say that out loud?

Maxstate
06-08-2007, 04:36 PM
Hahaha I think playermodels are plenty... personally I feel like when we fix balance we should load the profile screen with some more usable skills for jedi, and more guns and gadgets for gunners.

That blaster list that I gave you has a lot of cool stuff in it, like the arc trooper rifle, looks cool and I already have sort of an idea of what kind of effect I could make it shoot :D

Also, we have permission to use War_Shark's DE-10 blaster pistol but Ace hasn't gotten around to implementing it, please don't forget this gun guys I went to great trouble for it :p

razorace
06-08-2007, 05:02 PM
I'd focus on that Y Backpack that we previously suggested for now.

thrillhouse222
06-08-2007, 05:03 PM
done. i'll finish it this weekend

Lathain Valtiel
06-08-2007, 05:03 PM
If I may make a suggestion, if you're gonna mount something on a back, can you make it that the holster file determines if it appears?

razorace
06-08-2007, 05:53 PM
My plan was to have it attach just like the jetpack to the player's back. If the character is configured properly to have the jetpack, they will be able to wear the backpack as well.

Lathain Valtiel
06-08-2007, 05:54 PM
What happens if you have both?

razorace
06-08-2007, 07:38 PM
I was planning on making it so that you couldn't have both but maybe that's too rash. What do you guys think? Would it make sense to be able to carry a Y cage and a jetpack at the same time?

Maxstate
06-08-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm going to stay out of this one incase I undeliberately advance my agenda :rolleyes:

thrillhouse222
06-11-2007, 12:02 PM
Hey guys... I finished the y model over the weekend.
I have a pic for you at my home comp. but forgot to upload it this morning...
i'll post one tomorrow for you to see.

LightNinja
06-11-2007, 01:02 PM
Buggy models ruined MB2, for example. Of course, it may just have been me, but was the SBD, kinda, bugged? Is he meant to hold his arm over his head?

The SBD is actually a vehicle in wich you're forced to spawn in. So it has a different skeleton which mean custom animations made by the author.

And the JO models have that bug because there's a bone missing on the right hand of the skeleton, or it has a different name in the JA skelleton (if i remember correctly it's the "l_hang_tag_bone"). Anyway if you wanna fix it you'll have to weight it to the JA skeleton.

razorace
06-11-2007, 01:46 PM
As I recall, the problem was a typo made in the JKA engine code. They misspelled the name of the left hand tag so it didn't convert from JKO properly.

Lathain Valtiel
06-11-2007, 05:06 PM
...You're joking, right?

The whole issue is a single typo they didn't fix in the patch? Wow... an you can't do anything because it's engine code, right?

Wow, that SUCKS. There's really no other words for it.

Wouldn't it be technically possible to take a resource editor and edit the jamp executable with it, thus fixing it? I mean it's just one string...

razorace
06-11-2007, 08:35 PM
Yeah, probably, but hex editing freaks me out. :)

Lathain Valtiel
06-11-2007, 08:39 PM
It's probably easier than a no-CD crack and nowhere near as dubious in legality...

Of course it's beyond MY skill. That said, I truly think it's worth looking into. I think it'd be awesome if one day you came up and said "Now all JO models have perfect compatibility with JA'.

I can dream I guess!

SeLeXeL
06-25-2007, 10:18 AM
I think the addition of maps primarily would be good for OJP. Currently, my map of choice is the JKA duel map, Taspir Landing. Has that decent sized, arena type layout, with appropriately placed artifacts; eg: loading crates.
The issue of type of maps in relation to the game-types were also raised. I personally see OJP as more of a FFA mod. Rarely have I ever played CTF, or Seige. I prefer UT99 in that aspect :P
However, once the saberists/gunners balance issues have been sorted, I can see both game-types taking off in a big way.
Presently, I think a good start would be a few custom OJP FFA maps.

TheShaman
06-25-2007, 05:15 PM
I first thought OJP was a duel mode, because of the amazingly pawnage saber system. But after I played with Max and the other regulars on his server, I think that not only duel is good, but FFA and TFFA too. To be honest, OJP's future is in the last man standing feature, combined with FFA or TFFA, maybe CTF. Of course, duel will always remain a very good choice to play with the saber system.
That's my point of view, and I don't really like the UT style (join, kill kill kill die kill die kill kill leave, bored of game, quit) because it has a too short life span, to me, a good game lasts years before being bored, which means hundreds and hundreds of playing, if not thousands.

SeLeXeL
06-25-2007, 10:55 PM
That's my point of view, and I don't really like the UT style (join, kill kill kill die kill die kill kill leave, bored of game, quit) because it has a too short life span, to me, a good game lasts years before being bored, which means hundreds and hundreds of playing, if not thousands.

Hehe !! I, partly, agree with regards to UT. It is fast paced, and spammy to some degree.
UT99, however, can claim longevity. Almost 10 yrs since its first release and still has a significant fan and player base. Obviously UT has something in order for peoples to stick with it for so long.
I can see potential in a LMS/FFA hybrid as you say. If I were to add to this idea, I'd have it so a player would start in a normal duel situation. Difference would be after each win the player would grow stronger in force powers and more resilient. Progressively, this same player would then have to face multiple opponents...similar to a power dual situation. Two at first of varying skills, then three, four...etc, balanced by the fact that the player has acquired increases in health, force, and weaponry skills.
This would also utilise the makashii saber style more as I think its supposed to be effective against multiple opponents. May also mean some tweaks or additions to saber anims for this purpose. Who knows...maybe in version 0.1.1 :haw:
Throw in a few rewards gimmicks like claiming lightsabers and have it announced.
Suitable maps could range from medium like Bespin Streets, to the fairly large like...The Jedi Academy. Or for the more confrontational, keep it to the small maps like the default duel maps.
What say everybody else...??

Wytchking
06-26-2007, 02:37 PM
I agree with the idea of adding maps and playermodels but can we keep within the limits of star wars related or at least Sci Fi as I have always felt JA+'s swords were slightly random (one of the many reasons I never really got into that mod)

TheShaman
06-26-2007, 03:30 PM
Interesting idea Selexel, this could be a new gametype where the best player has to fight the others, much like Jedi master, except everyone has the skills they want. And when more people are in game, it's the 2 best who fight the other, and even more players, the 3 best vs the other...
Like...
1v4 max
then its 2v9 max
then its 3v14 max
then its 4v19 max
...

SeLeXeL
06-26-2007, 11:16 PM
And when more people are in game, it's the 2 best who fight the other, and even more players, the 3 best vs the other...
Like...
1v4 max
then its 2v9 max
then its 3v14 max
then its 4v19 max
...
Yup...exactly what I mean !! Could also implement some kind of stats system where; for example, a 1v4 situation is too much. On the next turn, stats ( or the force...however you want it ) may determine that you're not strong enough to take on 4 so you will face 3 or 2 opponents instead.

To elaborate further on the actual approach to gameplay...would you prefer a 2v9 situation, where the 2 spawn at different locations, and likewise with the 9 opponents ?? Should they all spawn simultaneously or after timed intervals ?? eg, one opponent per minute.
Such an approach would require a large sized map imo. Could be all outdoor, or a large building. This could enable players to spread their enemies and use guerella tactics, like setting trip mines in hidden spots, sniper nests, etc...
If jedi senses they're in danger, implement a feature I'd call ' jedi sense danger ' or something. When this is activated, fellow jedi will see a flash of the location on radar and rush to help. Limit the number of times it can be used obviously.
Actually what comes to mind is the scene in Episode III, after The Emperor issues order 66. Obi Wan and Yoda, after surviving the the attempt on their lives, go to the Jedi Temple and fight off a load of clone troopers.

The other approach would be totally confrontational. Literally 2 Jedi Masters against 9 Sith adepts or whatever side of the force comforts the individual. A medium to small sized map. This would probably mean several or more opponents on one. It'll probably force more skillfull uses of lightsabers and its various styles, along with force powers. A typical tactic would be a jedi taking on a sith opponent.
- Jedi senses or sees another sith coming to join the battle.
- This sith is approaching from the side or behind.
- Jedi isn't able to dispatch their current foe, so force push to temporarily
incapacitate the sith, and moves to counter the other sith.
From here on it'll be a battle of wits as well as saber skills. Jedi will be balancing defensive and offensive moves, looking for an opening. Siths, who will not be as powerful and only subject to one saber style will be dancing around trying to pick at the jedi DP and raise mishap.
Think end of Episode II, begining of Episode III - Count Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker.

Obviously I wouldn't expect all this to happen anytime soon if at all. These are just ideas I've had swimming around.
Forgiveness if I've rambled on too much, but I thought it best to write all this at the timely hour of 4am before I forget :P

keshire
06-28-2007, 03:13 AM
The SBD is actually a vehicle in wich you're forced to spawn in. So it has a different skeleton which mean custom animations made by the author.

Thats the deka your thinking of. The SBD uses the _humanoid. Animation problems are always due to the mod not loading the _humanoid gla/cfg correctly.

razorace
06-28-2007, 03:55 AM
Yeah, I hate it when that happens. JKA+ installs its animation file into the base folder and sometimes screws things up. *shakes fist*

keshire
06-28-2007, 04:15 AM
Yeah, I hate it when that happens. JKA+ installs its animation file into the base folder and sometimes screws things up. *shakes fist*

Same with MB2. It's because loading the mod in certain ways causes it to ignore the _humanoid if it's in the mod folder.

Maxstate
06-28-2007, 05:10 AM
Good way to test out whether something is using one or the other is to take the model! SBD Jedi ell oh ell.

Edit:
Take as in /model and see if you can change yourself into it.

razorace
06-28-2007, 11:53 AM
Keshire, from what I've seen, I've only see it not load when:
1. The mod is loaded from the mod menu.
2. The mod is loaded by entering a moded server when the player is running basejka.

In both cases, this isn't a problem for OJP E or MB2 because our mods have different network protocalls that make the game crash if the mod isn't started properly anyway.

My solution has been to just remove OJP E from the buggy mod menu and just have our installer create a link for properly starting up the mod. I think it's worked pretty well for us so far. :)

The Unbeholden
02-18-2008, 11:00 PM
i would love OJP E to have the same models and maps. so we dont have to download it seperatley people will all have the same thing.so all of us will be able to enjoy the high res models and maps. plus im getting sick of the same thing over and over again.