PDA

View Full Version : Saber combat and dullness


CraZy_B
06-16-2007, 11:17 AM
Is anyone else concerned about this? We haven't even seen a single sabre stroke in the trailers. I understand they want to make the force a kickass thing I just hope you won't have to rely on it too much and we will get memorable saber combat.

You basically have 4 force powers and from what I hear you can combine some. Let's admit it, that gets really boring after a few hours. On second thought, since the game is 10hours long it won't be that boring, but replayability after seeing both endings will be close to none.

Commander Obi-Wan
06-16-2007, 12:04 PM
Is anyone else concerned about this? We haven't even seen a single sabre stroke in the trailers. I understand they want to make the force a kickass thing I just hope you won't have to rely on it too much and we will get memorable saber combat.

Well, let me remind you that the game will not be released till next spring. So, that still gives them quite a bit of time. As well as the fact, that gives them time to release videos and images and articles to explain the game more in-depth.

I'm sure that lightsabre combat will be implemented in the game, I highly doubt that they are going to let you be Vader's apprentice and not be able to use a lightsabre. That would be foolhardy.

I wouldn't start worrying about lightsabre combat till December-ish before I start to panic.

You basically have 4 force powers and from what I hear you can combine some. Let's admit it, that gets really boring after a few hours. On second thought, since the game is 10hours long it won't be that boring, but replay ability after seeing both endings will be close to none.

Again, they still have a lot of time to develop this game. They have pushed it back once thus far. Hopefully, to ensure that the game will have its best potential.

IIRC, Haden Blackman did say they will accommodate those who like to rush through a game and for those who like to play and take their time throughout the game.

As far as it comes to re-playability, will just have to wait to see more about game to judge that.

Windu Chi
06-17-2007, 02:15 PM
Is anyone else concerned about this? We haven't even seen a single sabre stroke in the trailers. I understand they want to make the force a kickass thing I just hope you won't have to rely on it too much and we will get memorable saber combat.
I'm damn sure concern about this.
I feel a disturbance in the Force with this one.

You basically have 4 force powers and from what I hear you can combine some. Let's admit it, that gets really boring after a few hours. On second thought, since the game is 10hours long it won't be that boring, but replayability after seeing both endings will be close to none.
Yes 4 Force powers is not enough, in my opinion.
Need more, we do! :)

JawaJoey
06-18-2007, 03:33 AM
The devs have said before that they are not going to ignore saber combat. The game doesn't focus on that, but they're not going to shirk it in any way that disappoints the average fan. If you want a game with excellent saber combat, this isn't your game. If don't want excellence, then don't worry about it. It'll be fine. The guys at Lucasarts aren't stupid enough to have crappy saber combat.

You basically have 4 force powers and from what I hear you can combine some. Let's admit it, that gets really boring after a few hours. On second thought, since the game is 10hours long it won't be that boring, but replayability after seeing both endings will be close to none.

Please stop spouting information as if it's known fact...please. 10 hours long? Where did you hear that. The project lead said that the story could be rushed through, but he believes that the game has virtually infinite playtime, because every time is different. That's a bit idealistic, but the point is, when you're actually playing the game for the reason you want to play, gameplay, length and time aren't part of the equation. And what's with this both endings stuff? I wouldn't be surprised if there were 2, and I even don't mind you making the assumption, but DON'T pretend that it's a fact. You don't know jack about the exact number of endings. And like I said, this game is about gameplay, and that has no time limit on replayability. Great story is great, but games are about gaming. I haven't played KOTOR 10 times because there are that many endings. I've played it because its fun.

So just STOP making assumption after assumption about mounds of stuff you don't know anything about yet.

CraZy_B
06-18-2007, 05:52 AM
I'm sure they won't abandon saber combat althogether, I'm just curious what others think about making the jedi comicbook-style telekinetic superheroes.

I haven't played KOTOR 10 times because there are that many endings.

KOTOR is fun with lots of choices, character builds, new equipment, story options you might not have discovered connected to party members or side quests etc. It's an RPG with a lots of content and a long playtime.
This is a 10 hours long action game with 4 force powers, so the limitless possibilities you keep talking about sound a bit awkward, no?

You don't know jack about the exact number of endings.

I did make an assumption about the two endings which seem logical, but as of now the rest IS fact. The devs said it themselves: 4 force powers, 10 hours. And from my experience, the line "it can be rushed through in" translates to "it will take an average gamer about".

Windu Chi
06-18-2007, 06:47 AM
If you want a game with excellent saber combat, this isn't your game.
The lightsaber combat better be excellent, it better not just be there to just be there.
They better focused on lightsaber combat and Force powers, like the developers did in Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, the game. :)
Now when they made Ep III, of course they didn't have the technology they are putting in this game, but they can focused on both, they need to stop only focusing only on one aspect of the game, like past Jedi Knight games.

Like for example JKA(Jedi Knight Academy) and JK II:JO(Jedi Outcast) didn't have Force Grasp: throw people and objects with the Force.
They only focused only on lightsaber combat in those two games.

But in the old Obi-Wan game they had a primitive Force Grasp power: you can only throw objects only and the lightsaber combat was terrible.

They better not get tunnel vision by just only focusing on one aspect again; Force powers more and lightsaber combat get second treatment.
They need to learn from their past mistakes. :)

Jeff
06-18-2007, 10:17 AM
This is a 10 hours long action game with 4 force powers, so the limitless possibilities you keep talking about sound a bit awkward, no?
I did make an assumption about the two endings which seem logical, but as of now the rest IS fact. The devs said it themselves: 4 force powers, 10 hours. And from my experience, the line "it can be rushed through in" translates to "it will take an average gamer about".I've watched all the documentaries and videos and I don't recall the developers specifically saying 10 hours long. In fact I just watched that part of the video and Haden Blackman says that they are catering to both playstyles, so it will not be forced for one to play 40-50 hours in the game to experience the story, but if you want to really explore and take your time that is also a way to go. There was no game length specified, besides the 12 hour example given by the guy asking the question. And I also don't agree with your translation. I'm the kind of gamer that likes to experience the entire game and explore all the areas and do everything possible in the game. But maybe I'm not average. :)

Master Zionosis
06-18-2007, 10:45 AM
I did make an assumption about the two endings which seem logical, but as of now the rest IS fact. The devs said it themselves: 4 force powers, 10 hours. And from my experience, the line "it can be rushed through in" translates to "it will take an average gamer about".

I also don't agree with your 'translation', i can't beleive that any gamer would want to rush through the game to complete it missing loads of bits in the game, i to, like Darth Moeller, play through the entire game and complete it as much as possible.

RC-1162
06-18-2007, 01:01 PM
Like for example JKA(Jedi Knight Academy) and JK II:JO(Jedi Outcast) didn't have Force Grasp: throw people and objects with the Force.
They only focused only on lightsaber combat in those two games.
If you Force Gripped an enemy, you could throw him into a wall if you moved the mouse sharply to one side, I bet that makes up for an in-built grip-and-throw power ;).

tk102
06-18-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm interested to see how the tonfun saber combat will be implemented (as seen in image 32 from starwars.com).

CraZy_B
06-18-2007, 01:52 PM
It's always nice to see new saber styles. One of the recent jaw-droppers for me was Assajj in BF2 Xbox version. Light-nunchacks :)


i can't beleive that any gamer would want to rush through the game to complete it missing loads of bits in the game

You misunderstand me. I never said anyone would rush things, just that the game isn't long, no matter how you play. And by the interpretation I mean that I think the devs are exaggerating about the game, which is only natural and common in advertisement these days.

English is not my mother tongue so you might not understand some of the things I'm saying :)

PoiuyWired
06-18-2007, 03:36 PM
1) Lightsaber Tonfa is already documented in EU. Unfortunately the fight is not interesting. Partly cause the Tonfa wielding twi'lek girl is facing some horny dude with a red face.

2) Well, sad to say. But I do intend to kinda zoom through a story in a relative fast pace on my first play thru. I usually do all the detail stuff like side quest on my second run thru (collect pazaak cards, get more medals, whatever it is). Then on the third run(if there is one) I would pick up an FAQ and do all the things I have missed in my second run. Now, there are games that does not deserve even a second run thru, but most games would do nice with 2-3 play thrus.

The reason behind that? Well, if you spend too much time on detail stuff you might lose out the atmosphere too much, and let the grinding(or self-induced grinding) dilute the story. Yes, I am the guy whould would enjoy killing every single meatbags in a game if possable in a storyline. So yes I am the guy who would act nice to whack up the LS points, then would deliberately anger the local tribe so I can initiate genocide and get those nice loot/xp/my dragon pearl.

MeleeMaster
06-30-2007, 03:26 PM
Don't mean to bump an older topic but I'm just wondering, do any of you guys think they'll implement melee attacks at all as one of your attacks.

I just mean like being able to kick at the end of a lightsaber combo or maybe a punch or two.

Because in other Star Wars games they use melee in really gay ways if at all.

In Jedi Knight:Jedi Academy there's a level where your scouring a bar/mining fortress place and some of the Gran enemies run up and start punching you inflicting like 30 damage per punch (while the blasters do 20 damage), and knocking you backwards.

While in a level where your taken prisoner and your lightsaber is taken from you as well as other weapons you have you can't punch or kick or anything, and you can only attack until you grab the nearest blaster. With the saber staff you can do kicks as your secondary attack, but you can only use the staff at the very end of the game, while NPC dark Jedi can kick with any kind of lightsaber. And in order to do punches and kicks you need to use a cheat code, which only works in the PC version of the game.

And then in a game called Star Wars:Obi-wan, you can use Force pull to pull wepaons out of enemie's hands, and then they run up to you and start doing hooks and punch combos on you and they kick you as well or they bring out a knife (and it's all unblockable).

And enemies armed with weapons occasionally kick you, and tougher armed enemies often do spin kicks or double spin kicks (they look like double crescent kicks/butterfly kicks as referred to in Karate), and when you spar against Jedi Masters they do Axe kicks and spin kicks and double spin kicks on you.

All you can do as Obi-Wan is a trip+stab that requires your force bar to be completely full, and against battledroids you can actually do a frontal kick, but you need full force and it leaves you open to nearby droids that shoot missles at you.

I really don't want another game where NPCs can gayly use melee against you where you can't block it, much less do it.

So is there any hint of the ability to use melee attacks in Force Unleashed?

PoiuyWired
07-01-2007, 03:16 PM
In JK0 (aka the original Dark Forces) you can indeed use your punch and kicks. There is a level where you have to fight a small Kella Dragon like that I think.

TKA-001
07-01-2007, 03:36 PM
We haven't even seen a single sabre stroke in the trailers.
Trailers? What trailers?

PoiuyWired
07-02-2007, 03:15 AM
Not TFU, but an answer to Wii and lightsaber combat.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?p=2337696#post2337696

Granted, it is not the FIRST GAME with such a type of thing. Gundam UC allows you to run around chopping things also, but yeah and jedi/sith with saber is more fun.

Darth Savath
07-19-2007, 03:26 PM
I'm a little worried about the snipit on the official website, stating that the SA isn't proficient in lightsaber combat, and doesn't need to be because of his force powers.

Its looks like instead of trying to improve the lightsaber combat in the game, they are going to make excuses for why you don't need to use it.

YertyL
07-20-2007, 05:12 AM
I'm a little worried about the snipit on the official website, stating that the SA isn't proficient in lightsaber combat, and doesn't need to be because of his force powers.

Its looks like instead of trying to improve the lightsaber combat in the game, they are going to make excuses for why you don't need to use it.

Under Vader's harsh tutelage, the Apprentice has all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and has learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers.

Whew, you had me worried for a moment :p

Jediknight1818
07-20-2007, 05:26 AM
I have seen plenty of lightsaber action in clips off of the website, not as much as I would like but using the force is what the game is centered on after all.

Maphisto86
07-20-2007, 07:06 PM
Well in the official trailer released recently we see the apprentice wielding his lightsaber in combat. I admit Im worried a bit about lightsaber combat in the game so I don't blame CraZy_B for being apprehensive. For instance everytime I see the apprentice slash a stormtrooper, the trooper doesen't fall apart or get limbs chopped off but instead seems to be pushed away (though we did see the apprentice impale an enemy in gameplay). I also hope the creators of the game include some saber combat, especially with the Jedi you are hunting. Though Im confident that this will occur I would like to see a sample of it in a future trailer or clip.

Ctrl Alt Del
07-20-2007, 09:31 PM
Please stop spouting information as if it's known fact...please. 10 hours long? Where did you hear that. The project lead said that the story could be rushed through, but he believes that the game has virtually infinite playtime, because every time is different. That's a bit idealistic, but the point is, when you're actually playing the game for the reason you want to play, gameplay, length and time aren't part of the equation. And what's with this both endings stuff? I wouldn't be surprised if there were 2, and I even don't mind you making the assumption, but DON'T pretend that it's a fact. You don't know jack about the exact number of endings. And like I said, this game is about gameplay, and that has no time limit on replayability. Great story is great, but games are about gaming. I haven't played KOTOR 10 times because there are that many endings. I've played it because its fun.


C'mon, it's an action game, not an RPG, they are two different styles and have two different crowds (even if people as I play and like them both). What I mean is that a RPG is long, yeah, dozens of gameplay hours. While the action game is more prized by its shorter but full of unstoppable action until the end. They're also reckoned by its replaying potential. That said, I think that 10 hours is pretty reasonable for a game as The Force Unleashed, but I understand how you feel, I too like long duration games. ;)

Zenthie
07-29-2007, 10:57 PM
Well in the official trailer released recently we see the apprentice wielding his lightsaber in combat. I admit Im worried a bit about lightsaber combat in the game so I don't blame CraZy_B for being apprehensive. For instance everytime I see the apprentice slash a stormtrooper, the trooper doesen't fall apart or get limbs chopped off but instead seems to be pushed away (though we did see the apprentice impale an enemy in gameplay). I also hope the creators of the game include some saber combat, especially with the Jedi you are hunting. Though Im confident that this will occur I would like to see a sample of it in a future trailer or clip.

The lightsaber combat is deadly. Limbs get chopped. They just haven't showen it yet in their trailers.
There will be saber combat!

LordSerion
08-10-2007, 06:01 AM
In the last trailer he used the Shien style, so yes, there will be lightsaber combat. Anyway, what is a Star Wars jedi/sith-game without lightsaber combat :) ?

PoiuyWired
08-10-2007, 11:23 AM
The lightsaber combat is deadly. Limbs get chopped. They just haven't showen it yet in their trailers.
There will be saber combat!

YES YES YES!!! Dettachable bodyparts is a MUST in a game involving lightsabers. I mean, thats a reason why the dismemberment code for the JK series make the game much better. It makes you geel mroe like chopping rather than tickling your target to death. Plus, there is no need for blood, just parts of seared off (usually) armor. Now, I wonder if you can utilise broken enemy parts as a means of attack, like force push them into a target via high speed.

Jediknight1818
08-10-2007, 11:37 PM
I thought that they recreated lightsaber fighting very well in ROTS for PS2 I hope to see that same kind of gameplay in this one. I can't wait!!!

Ztalker
08-11-2007, 06:21 AM
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
YES YES YES!!! Dettachable bodyparts is a MUST in a game involving lightsabers. I mean, thats a reason why the dismemberment code for the JK series make the game much better. It makes you geel mroe like chopping rather than tickling your target to death. Plus, there is no need for blood, just parts of seared off (usually) armor. Now, I wonder if you can utilise broken enemy parts as a means of attack, like force push them into a target via high speed.

...lightsabers don't chop stuff of..they aren't swords.
They're just caysing microscopic burn wounds according to some SW material. You can see this in episode 2, where Anakin's wound is burned close instantly. The only reason his arm got severed was because of the force push Dooku used right after.
I really didn't like the dismemberment code, tbh. It made me feel a rambo and slaughtering madman instead of a refined Warrior Monk with an ancient weapon. Not that there's anything wrong with rambo, but I liked the original JK better, where you can see the burn wounds on the characters, like it's meant to be. But that's me being a purist. Your idea with the armor parts will make a very cool game as well, with all the severed parts being usable :)

@Topic:
I hope they throw in some of the stances from the movies/Kotor 2. It already seems cool with Maris Brood's new type of sabers, and the apprentice holding his own saber in a new way. I think it will be good

stoffe
08-11-2007, 06:30 AM
...lightsabers don't chop stuff of..they aren't swords.
They're just caysing microscopic burn wounds according to some SW material. You can see this in episode 2, where Anakin's wound is burned close instantly. The only reason his arm got severed was because of the force push Dooku used right after.

There are plenty of instances in the movies where a saber wielder lops off body parts from their opponent (Obi-Wan vs. Thug in the cantina in Episode 4, Vader vs. Luke in Episode 5, Maul vs. Qui-Gon in Episode 1, Dooku vs. Anakin in Episode 2, Anakin vs. Dooku and Anakin vs. Windu in Episode 3 etc), most of them not accompanied by any apparent use of the Force. Thus I'd say it's reasonable to assume that a lightsaber alone is quite capable of severing body parts while cauterizing the wound.

That said I'm not that big a fan of dismemberment in games, leaving mutilated enemies behind feels kind of gross, and it would make combat quite annoying if saber-wielding enemies could do the same to you. That, and it would constantly remind me of the Knight vs. Arthur scene in Monty Python and I wouldn't be able to take combat seriously. :)

GeneralPloKoon
08-11-2007, 04:42 PM
I don't care if the saber combat is good or not cause i'm getting it anyways cause its starwars!

PoiuyWired
08-11-2007, 06:28 PM
Well, remember those cute little poor harmless battledroids getting chipped into spare parts while they are gently releasing beams of light upon the jedis. Yes, Lightsabers do cause dismemberment, and it is kinda stupid to leave dead bodies jsut falling on the fall w/o any sign of damage whatsoever, while you have effects teashing anything from walls to giant pillars to vehicles.

I don't care if the dismemberment is only "lego style" but still, do it if possable.

Maphisto86
08-13-2007, 12:14 AM
I read in a preview that Hayden Blackman and the other producers said that The Force Unleashed was not a duel sim. While I understand this it makes me worried that no matter how awesome the Force powers are, the game will become a Force bash fest, flinging stormtroopers around gets teidious after awhile. Im hoping for some lightsaber action as well. Lightsaber duels are a part of the Star Wars saga as anything else so I hope there is some in the game.

LordSerion
08-14-2007, 08:59 AM
I agree.

Ctrl Alt Del
08-19-2007, 08:35 PM
...lightsabers don't chop stuff of..they aren't swords.
Then how they're supposed to kill/incapacitate? It would be better to take barber razors to the battlefield then. Of course they dismember, but it's highly coagulant, reason why we don't see much spilled blood.

I hope they throw in some of the stances from the movies/Kotor 2. It already seems cool with Maris Brood's new type of sabers, and the apprentice holding his own saber in a new way. I think it will be good
Good idea. I'll make a thread for that. If it's implemented, then it should be rapidly changed by a touch on a determined button, otherwise, it'll just break the action sequences.

LordSerion
08-20-2007, 05:55 AM
He is using the Shien style. It can be recognised from the radically different way of grip. I hope they'll put in all the classic forms - and maybe even the formidable Trakata style, too!

PoiuyWired
08-20-2007, 12:18 PM
There are plenty of instances in the movies where a saber wielder lops off body parts from their opponent (Obi-Wan vs. Thug in the cantina in Episode 4, Vader vs. Luke in Episode 5, Maul vs. Qui-Gon in Episode 1, Dooku vs. Anakin in Episode 2, Anakin vs. Dooku and Anakin vs. Windu in Episode 3 etc), most of them not accompanied by any apparent use of the Force. Thus I'd say it's reasonable to assume that a lightsaber alone is quite capable of severing body parts while cauterizing the wound.

That said I'm not that big a fan of dismemberment in games, leaving mutilated enemies behind feels kind of gross, and it would make combat quite annoying if saber-wielding enemies could do the same to you. That, and it would constantly remind me of the Knight vs. Arthur scene in Monty Python and I wouldn't be able to take combat seriously. :)

Well, Dismemberment should only happen during the last hit of a target where their HP are all out. Plus, dead bodies do disappear after a while I assume like in all games. Also, there is no much of blood to speak of.

Granted, there are special cases of blood oozing out on a limb removed by a lightsaber, but that usually only happen when one is drunk on tatooine.

Darth Avlectus
08-22-2007, 04:08 AM
I'm interested to see how the tonfun saber combat will be implemented (as seen in image 32 from starwars.com).


YYYYEAH baby!

I started a thread in the Kotor 3 unknown regions about it whe I first came here...I was so busy selling a sort of strider hiryu design that I completely forgot about this one. It is the least fallible I've seen. I am definitely interested to see THIS babe's lightsabe style. Just a thought that its history should be this: this form and type of saber should actually be an ancient one developed long ago like around the invention of the first lightsaber--but owing to the fact that it required quite a bit more aggressiveness and even a slight bit of underhandedness to its form it was shunned by jedi as a precarious form. While not incomplete as Juyo was considered to be, its mentality fostered too much emphasis on ferocity and combat to be suitable for the jedi.
.......and the twisted irony is that a jedi is now using it to save her life. :laughing:

While this will not be a dueling sim true to life (one can only wish, huh?), I think it should have more options than even the live action JK3. A left handed option--lefties represent!

PoiuyWired
08-22-2007, 07:41 AM
To be fair there might not be a lightsaber style for lefties at all, ot at least none is know for the time being. Like the katana lightsaber style are probably practiced as a right-handed style, even for lefthanders. Granted, there are probably a few lefthand moves, but probably much less focused than the righthanded ones.

So if you are a leftie and wish to use a lefthand saber style you would face some problem. Well, for one you would have to somewhat "reinvent" a few of the moves. Simply swap your hands probably will not work well, unless you are also facing a lefthander with a lefthand style for some reason. But put it this way, if you can succeed in developing such style you would be deadlier than normal, due to unfamiliarity from the enemy side. Oh, there is the RL rumor of the ancient swordmaster Musashi being a lefthander with lefthand style himself...