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trettonkilolax
06-22-2007, 03:20 PM
(I don't know if this has come up before, but I'll post it anyway).

In the end of KotOR II (if you play it LS anyway, don't know about playing DS) there is a scene that's named "Death of the Ebon Hawk" where the Ebon Hawk falls down in some pit and I guess it's destroyed by the fall. But when Kriea dies it's the Ebon Hawk that saves you when the place colapses.

I'm just wondering if this accually is a paradox or if there's something I'm not getting. I'd like to think that the guys that made the game thought the end through enough to not make any stupid paradoxes..

mimartin
06-22-2007, 03:31 PM
No, it is not a paradox, it is just someone on the Ebon Hawk is a very good mechanic.

PoiuyWired
06-22-2007, 05:13 PM
From what I know:
1) Little balls can be good mechanics.
2) You can be a great mechanic, if you have only one arm.

trettonkilolax
06-22-2007, 05:25 PM
From what I know:
1) Little balls can be good mechanics.
2) You can be a great mechanic, if you have only one arm.

Yeah I know, but it would suffer awesome damage if it fell from a great distance. Maybe Bao-Dur would be killed in that crash, I mean Kreia doesn't even know his future.. why? Because he died in the crash. And concerning the balls (guess you mean remote and G0-T0), they are left to die on Malachor when the mass shadow generator is to be activated, thus they are not onboard the ebon hawk. And even if Bao-Dur survives "the death of the Ebon Hawk", he wouldn't be able to repair it that quick, not even with the Force.

So you got to do some better explaining than that!

mimartin
06-22-2007, 06:07 PM
So you got to do some better explaining than that!

Bao-Dur is silent to Kreia. She can not even read his mind, remember she is surprised that you are able to hear his thoughts. With the content in the game, Bao-Dur could still be alive. Atton could also be alive with the current content in the game. Remember he made repairs on Dxun. Add to that the rest of the crew except for Kreia, Remote, Go-To and Mira and you have your repair team. It is farfetched they could do it in such a short time and dealing with the injuries and possible deaths suffered from to impacts, but it is as believable as the Star Wars universe itself.

trettonkilolax
06-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Bao-Dur is silent to Kreia. She can not even read his mind, remember she is surprised that you are able to hear his thoughts. With the content in the game, Bao-Dur could still be alive. Atton could also be alive with the current content in the game. Remember he made repairs on Dxun. Add to that the rest of the crew except for Kreia, Remote, Go-To and Mira and you have your repair team. It is farfetched they could do it in such a short time and dealing with the injuries and possible deaths suffered from to impacts, but it is as believable as the Star Wars universe itself.

Totally forgot about Bao-Dur being silent to Kreia, know why that is btw?

Anyway, guess you're right. But I still think that it's still a little bit clumbsy by the lucasarts crew to even make anyone think that the ending is paradoxal.

JawaJoey
06-22-2007, 07:22 PM
Totally forgot about Bao-Dur being silent to Kreia, know why that is btw?

Anyway, guess you're right. But I still think that it's still a little bit clumbsy by the lucasarts crew to even make anyone think that the ending is paradoxal.

It's not the lucasarts crew, it's Obsidian that made the game. But Lucasarts was responsible forcing the rush that led to the remarkably sloppy ending... but that's all another discussion entirely.


That's just one of the things that makes me hate the end of the game so much. First the ship crashes, and is totally smashed. Then, it falls down a giant chasm, surely to be lost forever. Then suddenly flies to exactly where the Exile is, in pristine condition, and flies away. That's just one of the stupid ridiculous plot hole stupid parts that almost ruined the game.

Allronix
06-22-2007, 09:01 PM
Maybe the original intent was to turn the Hawk to scrap metal, but LucasArts demended a rerwite.

Trex
06-23-2007, 05:32 AM
Well, an obvious big link to add for those who know :

http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html

There's a big mod due out eventually that'll hopefully shed some light on various confusing end elements.

PoiuyWired
06-23-2007, 10:33 AM
My guess is that even before Bao becomes a jedi/Sith he has some control over the force. This is not strange since many cultures in the galaxy far far away develop some form of force affinity. Maybe Bao knows how to look small in the force, while he is not good enough to disappear from it yet, cause he is not THAT good.

Kas'!m
06-23-2007, 11:14 AM
It is farfetched they could do it in such a short time and dealing with the injuries and possible deaths suffered from to impacts, but it is as believable as the Star Wars universe itself.


Well, they were. . . are Jedi.

Simon92
06-23-2007, 04:18 PM
Totally forgot about Bao-Dur being silent to Kreia, know why that is btw?

I believe it could be possible that Iridonians have different minds that are all generally difficult to read. One theory is that the dark side clouds their mind, because whilst conversing with the Mandalorian Mercenary on Manaan in Kotor 1 you find out about their blood lust and their urge for massacre and mutilation. Could it be possible that the dark side corrupts and clouds their minds, even in the lighter Iridonians such as Bao-Dur?

trettonkilolax
06-23-2007, 05:38 PM
I believe it could be possible that Iridonians have different minds that are all generally difficult to read. One theory is that the dark side clouds their mind, because whilst conversing with the Mandalorian Mercenary on Manaan in Kotor 1 you find out about their blood lust and their urge for massacre and mutilation. Could it be possible that the dark side corrupts and clouds their minds, even in the lighter Iridonians such as Bao-Dur?

I don't know... sounds a little strange that the dark side of the Force would have influence over an entire species. So every iridonian is doomed to be a darksider, if not entierly he always is it deep in his heart? If it IS true it sounds quite sad to me, always playing lightsider. Bao-Dur seems like the lightest character in the entire game if you ask me.

John Galt
06-23-2007, 07:22 PM
I believe it could be possible that Iridonians have different minds that are all generally difficult to read. One theory is that the dark side clouds their mind, because whilst conversing with the Mandalorian Mercenary on Manaan in Kotor 1 you find out about their blood lust and their urge for massacre and mutilation. Could it be possible that the dark side corrupts and clouds their minds, even in the lighter Iridonians such as Bao-Dur?


You're thinking Iridorian not Iridonian. Two very differrent species.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iridorian

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iridonian

deathdisco
06-23-2007, 11:55 PM
If you look closely at the end movie you'll notice the Hawk is dinged up around the cockpit area.

90SK
06-24-2007, 01:58 AM
Just because the scene is titled "Death of the Ebon Hawk" doesn't mean it's actually the Death of the Ebon Hawk. Seeing the Ebon Hawk alive and well should make this clear. It's not like it's some mistake or something. At the time, it simply appears as though it's the Death of the Ebon Hawk. If they named the scene "The Apparent Death of the Ebon Hawk", it would take away from the flow of the story.

Besides, remember, for DS players it IS the death of the Ebon Hawk.


That's just one of the things that makes me hate the end of the game so much. First the ship crashes, and is totally smashed. Then, it falls down a giant chasm, surely to be lost forever. Then suddenly flies to exactly where the Exile is, in pristine condition, and flies away. That's just one of the stupid ridiculous plot hole stupid parts that almost ruined the game.

The ship is banged up, but obviously it still functions fine because it flies away at the end. It is definitely not in pristine condition: it's still just as smashed as it is when it "lands" on Malachor.

Remember in the beginning of the game where the ship has a gigantic chunk of it missing, but it still flies fine? A few dents probably don't add up to much.

Consider that the Exile is in the Trayus core. That chasm beneath where you fight Traya is the source of that green glow you see everywhere on the planet. The Ebon Hawk falls into the same chasm: it doesn't take a stretch of imagination to assume that whoever was aboard the Hawk (probably Atton) simply pulled the Hawk out of it's dive, flew around in the core until it pinpointed where the Exile was, and then rose up out again.

Well, an obvious big link to add for those who know :

http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html

There's a big mod due out eventually that'll hopefully shed some light on various confusing end elements.

There's nothing in that mod about this scene. Don't assume that just because something in the game doesn't make sense to you, it means that it's cut content being restored. Some aspects of the game are just confusing.

You're thinking Iridorian not Iridonian. Two very differrent species.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iridorian

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iridonian

I honestly think that the only difference between Iridorians and Iridonians is a spelling error on Bioware's part. Like Fenelar and Felenar in KotOR II. I mean, the "Iridorian" has the same type of accent that Bao-Dur and Darth Maul both have, and the described brutality of the Iridorians is probably a reference to Darth Maul's brutal nature. Though there's no way of knowing for sure.

Corinthian
06-24-2007, 12:51 PM
No, Iridorians are definitely different. Nothing is ever mentioned about Iridonians having a warlike culture, but Iridorians parralel the Echani and Mandalorians.

trettonkilolax
06-24-2007, 05:16 PM
No, Iridorians are definitely different. Nothing is ever mentioned about Iridonians having a warlike culture, but Iridorians parralel the Echani and Mandalorians.

Do anyone have a picture of a iridorian without his armor (on wookiepedia, that armorsuit leaves much to the imagination) to prove this? Do they have horns etc?

90SK
06-24-2007, 08:38 PM
The only time an "Iridorian" ever makes an appearance in the entire Star Wars continuity is in KotOR.

As an aside, If you read up on Iridonians a bit, you'll notice that they DO have a warrior culture, to a degree. Though not quite as extreme as is described in KotOR (but the one guy who describes Iridorians didn't sound very reliable).

Ctrl Alt Del
06-24-2007, 09:32 PM
As an aside, If you read up on Iridonians a bit, you'll notice that they DO have a warrior culture, to a degree. Though not quite as extreme as is described in KotOR (but the one guy who describes Iridorians didn't sound very reliable).


As off-topic: At first, I though that it was a spelling error of my part, but that couldn't be. The Iridorian we see on Manaan seems really bloodthirsty, exactly as that random merc describe him.

John Galt
06-24-2007, 09:46 PM
for a start, we've never heard anything about Zabraks(as Iridorians-the species- are more properly referred to as) eating anyone, or each other on the battlefield. I've also never heard anything about a hatred between Zabraks and Echani.

PoiuyWired
06-25-2007, 02:06 AM
Well, ignoring what personal idea the speaker of such information have, we know this:

"Iridorian" have a warrior culture, Battle-Rager.
Also the Rivalry described may not equal to hatred. It might more more of a "I am better than you" type.

The rest might be as real as "wookiees pulling arms out of droids if they lose a game"

And above all this, Iridorian does not always equal Zabrak. There are more species on Iridoria than Zabrak. Forgot what it is but there is atleast one other sentient with a reasonable number.

simplee
06-26-2007, 04:02 PM
in my game the planet didnt colapse... the cam. just zoomed away from the planet and nothing happaned(DS).

trettonkilolax
06-27-2007, 10:27 AM
in my game the planet didnt colapse... the cam. just zoomed away from the planet and nothing happaned(DS).

Huh, strange. Whats the name of the scene?

(Didn't someone say that the ebon hawk accually was destroyed when DS?)

Master Zionosis
06-27-2007, 11:08 AM
I remember this conversion a while ago, it came up on the TSLRP board, I think it was Dashus that explained what happened and what was supposed to happen, they are at TSLRP restoring what was supposed to happen to the Ebon hawk and when they are done it will explain why it happened, i beleive, maybe i read it wrong, either way if Dashus comes across this thread maybe he can shed some light on it, as I may not be entirely correct.

90SK
06-27-2007, 01:47 PM
Could you link us to that page?

PoiuyWired
06-28-2007, 09:06 AM
Well, Famous "heroic" Ships never get destroyed. no matter what happenes they always find a way to nail it together, even if it takes several layers of ducttape wrapping around the ship. Look at what happened to the Aluminum Falcon?

To be fair, some famous ships do get destroyed, like the Moldy Crow. But that is done as a plot device I think, for the coming of the Raven's Claw.