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SilentScope001
06-29-2007, 01:22 PM
Inspired by the "What's your favorite caffine drink?" thread...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

Caffiene is, uh, dangerous. It is highly addictive, causing withdrawal symptoms. Read this and weep.

In large amounts, and especially over extended periods of time, caffeine can lead to a condition known as "caffeinism." Caffeinism usually combines "caffeine dependency" with a wide range of unpleasant physical and mental conditions including nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis[51] and heart palpitations.[52] Furthermore, because caffeine increases the production of stomach acid, high usage over time can lead to peptic ulcers, erosive esophagitis, and gastroesophageal reflux disease.[53]

An acute overdose of caffeine, usually in excess of 400 milligrams (more than 3–4 cups of brewed coffee), can result in a state of central nervous system overstimulation called caffeine intoxication. Some people seeking caffeine intoxication resort to insufflation (snorting) of caffeine powder, usually finely crushed caffeine tablets. This induces a faster and more intense reaction. The symptoms of caffeine intoxication may include restlessness, nervousness, excitement, insomnia, flushing of the face, increased urination, gastrointestinal disturbance, muscle twitching, a rambling flow of thought and speech, irritability, irregular or rapid heart beat, and psychomotor agitation.[52][56]

In cases of extreme overdose, death can result. The median lethal dose (LD50) of caffeine is 192 milligrams per kilogram in rats.[57] The LD50 of caffeine in humans is dependent on weight and individual sensitivity and estimated to be about 150 to 200 milligrams per kilogram of body mass, roughly 80 to 100 cups of coffee for an average adult taken within a limited timeframe that is dependent on half-life. Though achieving lethal dose with caffeine would be exceptionally difficult with regular coffee, there have been reported deaths from overdosing on caffeine pills, with serious symptoms of overdose requiring hospitalization occurring from as little as 2 grams of caffeine.[58][59][60][61] Death typically occurs due to ventricular fibrillation brought about by effects of caffeine on the cardiovascular system.

Treatment of severe caffeine intoxication is generally supportive, providing treatment of the immediate symptoms, but if the patient has very high serum levels of caffeine then peritoneal dialysis, hemodialysis, or hemofiltration may be required.

Long-term overuse of caffeine can elicit a number of psychiatric disturbances. Two such disorders recognized by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) are caffeine-induced sleep disorder and caffeine-induced anxiety disorder.

In the case of caffeine-induced sleep disorder, an individual regularly ingests high doses of caffeine sufficient to induce a significant disturbance in his or her sleep, sufficiently severe to warrant clinical attention.[62]

In some individuals, the large amounts of caffeine can induce anxiety severe enough to necessitate clinical attention. This caffeine-induced anxiety disorder can take many forms, from generalized anxiety to panic attacks, obsessive-compulsive symptoms, or even phobic symptoms.[62] Because this condition can mimic organic mental disorders, such as panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder, or even schizophrenia, a number of medical professionals believe caffeine-intoxicated people are routinely misdiagnosed and unnecessarily medicated when the treatment for caffeine-induced psychosis would simply be to withhold further caffeine.[63] A study in the British Journal of Addiction concluded that caffeinism, although infrequently diagnosed, may afflict as many as one person in ten of the population.[64]

Withdrawal symptoms—possibly including headache, irritability, an inability to concentrate, and stomach aches[47]—may appear within 12 to 24 hours after discontinuation of caffeine intake, peak at roughly 48 hours, and usually last from one to five days, representing the time required for the number of adenosine receptors in the brain to revert to "normal" levels, uninfluenced by caffeine consumption. Caffeine causes excess release of stomach acids during ingestion.[48] When in withdrawal the stomach acid levels decrease substantially and can cause some stomach aches in certain people.[citation needed] The aches normally last between 24–48 hours and can be confused with constipation.[citation needed] Analgesics, such as aspirin, can relieve the pain symptoms, as can a small dose of caffeine.[49] Most effective is a combination of both an analgesic and a small amount of caffeine.

It's horrible. Horrible. We should ban caffeine right now, and stop this highly dangerous drug from reaching our childern, and causing them serve pain. Because I know of these deadly effects, I rarely drink caffiene, and only if there are no other soft drinks around.

Alright, fine. Most people like Caffeine. It has medicial properties as well and is in many drugs. Like any drug, it has bad effects and good effects. But most people don't care about caffeine's ability to stop heart attacks or how it can act as a pain relivant, or even as a "performance-enhancing drug" (it can help you concreate in chess, making you win, which is why it is likely they will ban Caffiene, if they haven't already).

People take caffiene because it's fun to drink, I assume. It's "recreational". And if so...oh my god. Is it okay to have this sort of legal recreational drug, regardless of the side-effects it may have? Should it at least be regulated? Why are we able to tolerate such side-effects of Caffiene and not other recreational drugs?

John Galt
06-29-2007, 01:34 PM
Why? Because caffeine doesn't kill you (or isn't even particularly dangerous) unless you consume it in insane quantities; it is also a traditional part of English, and therefore American, culture(tea and coffee, respectively).

GarfieldJL
06-29-2007, 01:40 PM
Why? Because caffeine doesn't kill you (or isn't even particularly dangerous) unless you consume it in insane quantities; it is also a traditional part of English, and therefore American, culture(tea and coffee, respectively).


To add to that, using this one could say Orange Juice is dangerous because you give the subject so much orange juice (amounts that no one would consume anyways unless they were nuts) it would kill them.

Caffeine is found in a lot of things naturally, including Coffee, Tea, chocolate, etc. Caffeine isn't supposed to be used to get you high, someone trying to get high on Caffeine probably has a history of other illegal drug use.

PoiuyWired
06-29-2007, 02:14 PM
Well, "LOVE" is probably a more addictive drug, does have loads of side effects, and probably can kill you. Point being, lots of things are addictive and would kill you in great amounts, but that does not make them illegal. Hack, I think some of those "illegal"
drug should be legalized also.

Another point? Caffiene is so engraved in many cultures that it is hard to control. I mean, most people would not support any kind of regulation to that, and frankly, I would give you a big "FUXK YOU" follow by a big fist introduced to the face for stopping me drinking that wake-up juice of mine, though I would probably do the same if you stop me from having my ice-cream. It is the freedom of choice.

I would think a "suggested dosage per day" printed at the back of the container do enough of a job, thats about it.

Jae Onasi
06-29-2007, 02:24 PM
Caffeine does not typically alter your state of consciousness substantially in the way heroin, crack, or crystal meth do, nor is caffeine nearly anywhere as dangerous. While those symptoms such as trembling and heart palpitations can happen, it takes a lot of caffeine to get to that point. Actually dying from caffeine (barring pre-existing heart problems) would require much more than most people would ever be able to ingest.

JediKnight707
06-29-2007, 04:38 PM
Caffeine does not typically alter your state of consciousness substantially in the way heroin, crack, or crystal meth do, nor is caffeine nearly anywhere as dangerous. While those symptoms such as trembling and heart palpitations can happen, it takes a lot of caffeine to get to that point. Actually dying from caffeine (barring pre-existing heart problems) would require much more than most people would ever be able to ingest.

QFT.

Caffiene is an extremely mild mind-altering substance. So is adrenaline. Which is why we crave adrenaline rush so much. Caffiene won't kill you anymore than adrenaline.

stingerhs
06-29-2007, 05:21 PM
for the record, i've had my moments with caffeine. as a college student, i had a particular interest in coffee (and i still do), and it did get to a point that i was drinking almost 2 gallons of the stuff a day. about 5 months ago, i had to go to a doctor due to me constantly being jumpy and having a very high heart rate. the doctor noted that my heart rate was somewhat irregular, and it was indeed quite elevated. as it turns out, all that coffee i had been drinking was the culprit. anyways, under doctor's orders, i went cold turkey with caffeine for a month (including chocolate :( ), and my heart rate has been normal ever since.

however, despite my experience, i am under the belief that caffeine is one of those things that is good in moderation. it does help to keep me awake after a short or restless night, and its a huge boost when you need to concentrate on something whether its mental or physical. the biggest thing to remember is to avoid caffeinated drinks and food in the afternoon and the evening so that you can maintain a normal sleep cycle. that way, you reduce how much caffeine you need the next morning. its really not as difficult as it sounds especially if you're a naturally upbeat and positive-thinking person.

as for banning it, i'm failing to see why we should. for one, people don't regularly face medical problems due to regular use. overuse, as in my case, is a bit of a problem, but as it was in my case, the solution is relatively easy to come by. yes, it has some addictive qualities, but so what?? the long term effects aren't severe enough to be a cause for alarm.

Samuel Dravis
06-29-2007, 05:44 PM
Water is poisonous in large enough quantities; a lot of things are, so why is it such a terrible revelation that caffeine is too? Its addictive qualities are easily overcome if you wish, and, well, what's your point.

GarfieldJL
06-29-2007, 06:08 PM
The bill that bans coffee will probably end up falling in a senator's cup, and the coffee would probably taste better too.

JediKnight707
06-29-2007, 09:22 PM
The minute that I see a Caffiene Anonymous, I will truly believe that caffiene is something that needs to be regulated :) Until then, its just something to keep me awake.

GarfieldJL
06-29-2007, 09:38 PM
The minute that I see a Caffiene Anonymous, I will truly believe that caffiene is something that needs to be regulated :) Until then, its just something to keep me awake.


Don't give the left wing loonies any ideas.

TK-8252
06-29-2007, 11:39 PM
I'd never call caffiene a recreational drug. No one at parties is passing around cups of coffee and taking hits of it. People drink caffiene because it makes them perform better, usually at work. It's kind of like Gatorade for office workers.

SilentScope001
06-30-2007, 01:28 AM
Water is poisonous in large enough quantities; a lot of things are, so why is it such a terrible revelation that caffeine is too? Its addictive qualities are easily overcome if you wish, and, well, what's your point.

I was curious in what people thought, just all...

/shrugs. You learn something new every day.

Simon92
06-30-2007, 07:04 AM
I've had about 6 Cups of Coffee in an hour and I was fine. Nothing wrong with Caffeine to me!

mimartin
06-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Exercise like caffeine can become a medical problem is abused. Moderation is the key in most things in life as it is here. Like they say “Too much of a good thing.”

Don't give the left wing loonies any ideas.
I’ve seen right wing people telling people what to do with their own bodies. Does that make them right wing loonies?

Never mind it was a poor attempt at humor on my part and it was rude for me even to write it. I apologize to everyone for my poor judgment and posting something that I would consider flame baiting.

GarfieldJL
06-30-2007, 04:23 PM
I’ve seen right wing people telling people what to do with their own bodies. Does that make them right wing loonies?


Depends on what you mean.

Allronix
06-30-2007, 04:47 PM
I was at a meeting at New Freeway Hall one night, and helping out in the kitchen. After starting a pot of coffee, I joked "Y'know, if the coffee workers all decided to up and strike, that could pretty much kill capitalism."

"Yeah," one of the other ladies heckled back. "But you'd also cripple half the revolutionaries."

But caffeine won't be banned - it makes us more productive office or factory drones, it's second only to oil in terms of how much cash it brings in, and virtually every working adult is hooked.

Seriously, Garfield. Get off the "blame the liberals" crap. Your end of the spectrum's just as responsible for the patronizing, "we know better" song. My end involves academics and bureaucrats - yours is preachers and patriarchs. Still, if you want to be Ann Coulter to my Michael Moore, sure thing.

Prohibition, Blue Laws, sin taxes...and all the damn violations to Amendments 4, 5, and 10 that have been done in the name on the "War on Drugs" (all those billions, and the rates of drug use haven't much changed).

GarfieldJL
06-30-2007, 05:11 PM
Seriously, you know absolutely nothing about me, Allronix. Being a conservative doesn't mean one is stupid, racist, intolerant, etc. I am in college, thank you kindly sir, and I happen to agree with conservative viewpoints more the liberal viewpoints.

Fact is illegal drugs are addictive they can easily kill the person using them and that person is more likely to commit crimes even kill for more of those drugs. Seriously, I like Chocolate, I like tea, and I don't suffer from withdraw symptoms when I stop eating things that have caffeine in them. I like a lot of things that have caffeine in them, but I'm not addicted to it, cause I don't have to have anything with caffeine in it if I don't want to. You don't suffer from debilitating withdrawl symptoms if you stop drinking your coffee, you feel tired for a while big deal.

You don't have hallucinations where you think you can fly when you drink coffee, like the drug LSD. So don't compare caffeine to illegal drugs which can kill you a heck of a lot more easily than caffeine. I've yet to hear of someone going into a murderous rage due to caffeine.

So in my opinion sir, you can't compare caffeine to illegal drugs or laws that ban illegal drugs.

TK-8252
06-30-2007, 05:55 PM
Illegal drugs are not really as bad as you make them seem. Acid does not make you think you can fly. Drugs do not give you murderous impulses either. I have a lot of friends who use illegal drugs recreationally, specifically pot (if you can even call it a drug) and acid, and one of my friends used to smoke crack. These dudes are some of the most cool and friendly dudes you'll ever meet.

As a conservative, Garfield, you should understand the principles of supply and demand. The ONLY REASON why drugs are exceedingly harmful is because of the criminalized status that they currently hold. Drugs are much more expensive than they need to be, because the supply of them is low, but the demand is very high (no pun intended). The reason why the supply is low is because they're illegal. If they were legal, then their prices would go down, and people would not have to resort to crime to get drug money. If they were legal, then use of these drugs could be better monitored and regulated than just having them illegal across the board.

GarfieldJL
06-30-2007, 06:37 PM
Illegal drugs are not really as bad as you make them seem. Acid does not make you think you can fly. Drugs do not give you murderous impulses either. I have a lot of friends who use illegal drugs recreationally, specifically pot (if you can even call it a drug) and acid, and one of my friends used to smoke crack. These dudes are some of the most cool and friendly dudes you'll ever meet.


See the abuse of steroids, TK-8252 I believe the term is roid rage. Then there is meth which it's very production is harmful to whomever is there. Top that off there is Cocaine and Crack which one can easily die from, it's also a stimulent and stimulents tend to be highly addictive. Then there LSD, which does cause hallucinations. Let's not forget esctasy, which is also known as a date rape drug.

Cocaine can kill you as can Crack extremely easily, do you know what else is typically in crack seriously.


As a conservative, Garfield, you should understand the principles of supply and demand. The ONLY REASON why drugs are exceedingly harmful is because of the criminalized status that they currently hold. Drugs are much more expensive than they need to be, because the supply of them is low, but the demand is very high (no pun intended). The reason why the supply is low is because they're illegal. If they were legal, then their prices would go down, and people would not have to resort to crime to get drug money. If they were legal, then use of these drugs could be better monitored and regulated than just having them illegal across the board.

I'm on a prescription medication that is monitored by the Federal Government specifically ritalin. I'm well aware of how supply and demand works, the thing is Ritalin is now so over-prescribed it's ridiculous because people want little kids of 5-6 years old to sit still in a classroom all day with no breaks. Little kids have problems sitting still for extended periods of time whether they have Attention Deficit Disorder or not. If the drugs were legal, that would actually make the situation worse not better. Prohibition was stupid, I'll state that right now, quite simply because alcohol is too ingrained in our culture. Culture we got from Europe, it came over with the colonists. Things like cocaine, hash, LSD, Opium (which is legal but is very easily abused), Codine (also legal but is prescription only), etc. are not part of our culture it has been proven that they cause brain damage. Alcohol in moderation can be good for you, red wine to be specific. You can't tell me crack in moderation is good for you.

TK-8252
06-30-2007, 06:53 PM
See the abuse of steroids, TK-8252 I believe the term is roid rage.

Steroids aren't recreational drugs.

Then there is meth which it's very production is harmful to whomever is there.

Not arguing with you there. Meth is a very bad drug that everyone should stay away from. But it would be MUCH safer if legalized (it wouldn't be made in homes for god's sake!)

Top that off there is Cocaine and Crack which one can easily die from, it's also a stimulent and stimulents tend to be highly addictive.

Maybe someone would die from it if they're a ****ing moron, and in that case, maybe they get what is coming to them. Cocaine originally was widely used as a medicine in America. Painkillers used to be full of cocaine. Next, a lot of things are addictive. Cigarettes are very addictive, even alcohol.

Then there LSD, which does cause hallucinations.

Yeah. That's kind of the whole point of the drug.

Let's not forget esctasy, which is also known as a date rape drug.

What is the most common date rape drug? Alcohol.

Cocaine can kill you as can Crack extremely easily, do you know what else is typically in crack seriously.

It wouldn't be as dangerous if legalized. That way it's regulated, you can sue the place selling it if the product hurts you, and call 911 if you get sick. With our current system, if you get ****ed up on crack, well, you're ****ed.

Things like cocaine, hash, LSD, Opium (which is legal but is very easily abused), Codine (also legal but is prescription only), etc. are not part of our culture

I'm sorry but this is bull****. This country has a long history with these drugs. You really need to watch the History Channel or something, or read up on the history of drugs in America. Cocaine was one of the most popular ingredients in painkillers in America for quite some time (until racists demanded that it be criminalized, in order to keep it out of the hands of black people), and acid was actually produced by the U.S. government as a mind-controlling substance.

it has been proven that they cause brain damage.

So do a lot of things. For example, a lot of injured soldiers coming back from Iraq have (severe) brain damage. Should the soldiers in Iraq be criminalized for doing something that could potentially give them brain damage?

Alcohol in moderation can be good for you, red wine to be specific. You can't tell me crack in moderation is good for you.

Cocaine used to be a medication. It was even given to children for things like tooth aches. Read up on the history of drugs in America.

Nancy Allen``
06-30-2007, 07:18 PM
I'm not sure if it's caffine itself or the products it's in (coffee, chocolate, soft drinks, ect) that make it so addictive, but my stance on it is when it does affect an individual then that individual needs help.

As for hard drugs, you do realise you're supporting terrorism by taking part in it don't you?

GarfieldJL
06-30-2007, 07:18 PM
Steroids aren't recreational drugs.


You could argue it is because it boosts body growth.


Not arguing with you there. Meth is a very bad drug that everyone should stay away from. But it would be MUCH safer if legalized (it wouldn't be made in homes for god's sake!)


Meth also causes damage to the user.


Maybe someone would die from it if they're a ****ing moron, and in that case, maybe they get what is coming to them. Cocaine originally was widely used as a medicine in America. Painkillers used to be full of cocaine. Next, a lot of things are addictive. Cigarettes are very addictive, even alcohol.


I'm well aware Cocaine used to be used as a medicine, just like Cocacola used to be a medication. However it was found to have other effects. I'm also aware nicotine is addictive, and we're still trying to find how to get people to stop smoking. Nicotine is second only to Caffeine as far as addictiveness, and unlike Caffeine you have withdrawl symptoms from nicotine.


Yeah. That's kind of the whole point of the drug.


So why should LSD be legal, it makes the user a danger to themselves and others and they don't even realize it.


What is the most common date rape drug? Alcohol.


Typically the drink is spiked or the person is drunk. Esctasy is not part of our culture though, alcohol is.


It wouldn't be as dangerous if legalized. That way it's regulated, you can sue the place selling it if the product hurts you, and call 911 if you get sick. With our current system, if you get ****ed up on crack, well, you're ****ed.


Actually Crack is cocaine with stuff added to it, ingrediants can even include rat poison.



I'm sorry but this is bull****. This country has a long history with these drugs. You really need to watch the History Channel or something, or read up on the history of drugs in America. Cocaine was one of the most popular ingredients in painkillers in America for quite some time (until racists demanded that it be criminalized, in order to keep it out of the hands of black people), and acid was actually produced by the U.S. government as a mind-controlling substance.


Acid was also banned by the US government, cocaine was a pain killer until it was discovered that it was extremely addictive. As far as racism being involved, I seriously doubt that.


So do a lot of things. For example, a lot of injured soldiers coming back from Iraq have (severe) brain damage. Should the soldiers in Iraq be criminalized for doing something that could potentially give them brain damage?


There is a big difference between serving one's country and suffering injuries from your service than just deciding to get high on a drug.


Cocaine used to be a medication. It was even given to children for things like tooth aches. Read up on the history of drugs in America.

It used to be a medication till its side effects were discovered a lot of things used to be medications that aren't anymore.

TK-8252
06-30-2007, 08:40 PM
You could argue it is because it boosts body growth.

But that's not really recreational. People don't use steroids to get high, etc.

Meth also causes damage to the user.

If someone wants to damage themselves, why should we stop them? Isn't it their choice as a free person to damage themselves? Have you ever seen Jackass?

So why should LSD be legal, it makes the user a danger to themselves and others and they don't even realize it.

You mean like alcohol?

Typically the drink is spiked or the person is drunk. Esctasy is not part of our culture though, alcohol is.

I'm not really getting this whole culture argument. Just because something is popular or unpopular doesn't mean it should have any impact on its legal status.


Actually Crack is cocaine with stuff added to it, ingrediants can even include rat poison.

And again, the reason why things are added to it is because it's illegal and the dealer can get away with this. This is exactly like what happened during Prohibition, when bootleggers mixed dangerous substances like embalming fluid in with the booze.

As far as racism being involved, I seriously doubt that.

Racism was behind the criminalization of a lot of popular drugs in America. I highly recommend reading up on this. There were some great documentaries on the History Channel recently about the history of drugs in America. The episodes I watched went over the history of pot, acid, opium, and crack. Pot was banned because of white people complaining that Mexicans high on pot were going around causing havoc in cities. Opium was banned because of white people complaining that the Chinese were using it to seduce white women. Cocaine was banned because of white people complaining that black people high on crack were murdering and raping white women and children.

Here's a Wiki article on pot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history_of_marijuana_in_the_United_States

Here's a Wiki article on opium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium#Prohibition_outside_China

Here's a Wiki article on cocaine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine#Prohibition

There's a lot of good reading on Wikipedia.

There is a big difference between serving one's country and suffering injuries from your service than just deciding to get high on a drug.

However, they may have similar physical consequences.

It used to be a medication till its side effects were discovered a lot of things used to be medications that aren't anymore.

There are a LOT of LEGAL drugs in America that have very nasty side effects and are VERY addicting. But as of right now they're legal. For example, the drugs that killed Anna Nicole Smith were all legal!

JediMaster12
07-02-2007, 01:50 PM
As for hard drugs, you do realise you're supporting terrorism by taking part in it don't you?
So in a sense we have been supporting terrorism since the beginning. After all we have had problems with terrorists long before Sept. 11 so you are not going to impress me with that.

My poison of choice is soda pop, coffee and tea. Love them. Can't live without them though I once gave up pop for three months. Yeah I have withdrawal problems because It thought it unfair that my Pops could drink it and I could. Typical teenage stuff. After two days it was like ok cool. Like stingerhs I believe it should be in moderation especially now in the heat of summer. Drink plenty of water folks. It cleans your kidneys out better than a sody pop ever could.

GarfieldJL
07-02-2007, 02:09 PM
Caffeine is naturally found in coffee and tea though your withdrawl symptoms no offense mean weren't nearly what you'd get from cocaine.

JediMaster12
07-02-2007, 04:46 PM
Then it's a good thing I don't do the white collar drugs of choice :D

Yes I know the history of some of our drugs in this country. Criminal Law and Intro into Criminal Justice.

I used to drink three cans of sody pop a day so I was a little nuts when I quit cold turkey. Now I drink more water and my kidneys feel all the better for it.

Nancy Allen``
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
So in a sense we have been supporting terrorism since the beginning. After all we have had problems with terrorists long before Sept. 11 so you are not going to impress me with that.

You should be, not only do terrorists profit from drugs so they can fund mass murder they hope the problems associated with drugs as well as the drugs themselves will destroy their enemies so they don't have to do it themselves.

JediMaster12
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
And some groups use charity groups as a front. To be honest while I see it as a problem, it is not one of those eye openers for me. Drugs yeah have always been a cause of violence. Big timers have blood baths over who stole what and whatnot. Like I said, nothing new.

Nancy Allen``
07-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Ah, well in that case fair enough. Like America engaging in covert ops, it's like a big deal, everyone knows they do.

JediMaster12
07-02-2007, 10:27 PM
My point exactly Nancy. I suppose the thing we should start worrying about is whether or not people are going to engage in those same acts to get caffiene. Then we would really have a problem.