PDA

View Full Version : Ajunta Pall Unique Appearance


Silveredge9
07-08-2007, 04:04 PM
Decided to work on a new unique Ajunta Pall to replace the default dark jedi one whilst on a break from working on my content mod. :P

To say it's based on Deadeye Duncan, it looks rather creepy. It's currently a work-in-progress, with a few minor tweaks that I think I might have to make.

Anyways, feel free to make any comments or suggestions.

Screen 1 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-0820-21-20-06.jpg)
Screen 2 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-0820-22-05-98.jpg)

Also, the robe is just temp, I'll be making a unique costume eventually.

Emperor Devon
07-08-2007, 08:27 PM
Interesting idea... I like it. I'd try making the beard and tattoos a bit smaller, as well as adding some RotS-style Sith eyes. Apart from that it looks pretty good!

Kazeite
07-09-2007, 09:22 AM
Interesting idea. Maybe you should try adding lots of blue veins... well, make all those veins more visible. :)

TheRealDem
07-09-2007, 09:31 AM
Screw Blue Veins!!Red Veins are whats in lol nice Me likey you could combine this with T7's Ajunta Pall Blade or who was it?

Ghost Down
07-09-2007, 09:43 AM
Interesting idea... I like it. I'd try making the beard and tattoos a bit smaller, as well as adding some RotS-style Sith eyes. Apart from that it looks pretty good!
I agree. And get rid of the blue shielding effect ;)

- Ghost Down

Silveredge9
07-09-2007, 10:18 AM
I agree. And get rid of the blue shielding effect ;)

- Ghost Down
Yeah, I was looking into that, but It's not that simple. The attached scripts that activate the shield effect have elements that are associated with him identifying the correct Ajunta Pall sword, so to remove those, would mess that quest up. If only there was some way to decompile K1 scripts. :P

And for the skin itself, I'll include a few variations in the package, so you can choose one that fits your tastes best.

Ghost Down
07-09-2007, 10:23 AM
Ah, ok! And get yer bee-hookey on MSN, Damnit! ;)

- Ghost Down

Zerimar Nyliram
07-09-2007, 01:22 PM
I've always thought Ajunta Pall needed a make-over, but I have but one complain abo
out your skin: remove the tattoo. Let's not forget that Ajunta Pall was a pre-Tales of the Jedi era Jedi who stumbled upon the Sith species along with all of his fellow Dark Jedi companions, so he wouldn't look very similar to the modern Sith. Give him more primitive or tribal costume like we see in the Tales of the Jedi comics. In fact, this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Exiles) page has an excellent photo as an example of what the Jedi looked like circa the age in which Ajunta Pall lived (7,000 BBY), and another good page to look at would be "Hundred-Year Darkness (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness)," which also has some excellent photos.

Anyway, I've got away from my original point. The point is: the tattoo doesn't really go. (And I'd even go farther to say that neither does the dark side "zombie" crackled skin, since I hate the game's dark side transitions as they are very un-Star Wars; but then again, Sith ghosts tend to look distorted and moster-like, like the spirit of Marka Ragnos in Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, so it could work.) Perhaps you should make multiple versions of the head and let those who download your mod choose for themselves which ones they like.

Also, remember what I said about the costume. Be creative and see if you can make it look like those in the flashbacks from those Wookieepedia pages. Also, there is a popular fan theory that the red-armored Sith Lord (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Red-armored_Sith_Lord) is Ajunta Pall, so perhaps creating a skin based on that armor, but possibly without the helmet, might be a great idea.

Silveredge9
07-09-2007, 06:12 PM
Perhaps you should make multiple versions of the head and let those who download your mod choose for themselves which ones they like.
And for the skin itself, I'll include a few variations in the package, so you can choose one that fits your tastes best.
:P

And like I said in the first post, the robe is temporary and just for the screenshots, I'll research the costume styles later, as I tend to read wookiepedia often anyway.

Also keep in mind that it's impossible as far as what I've read to create an entirely new body model, so that means reskinning existing models is the sole option. So this presents clear limitations on what can, and cannot be done to an acceptable standard.

Zerimar Nyliram
07-09-2007, 07:27 PM
Sounds good.:)

Oh, also, based on the statue in his tomb, Ajunta Pall was bald. His head looks very much like that of Nemo, but the face is closer to that of Deadeye Duncan. Perhaps you could create a new head using parts from both?
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/3/3e/Ajuntastat.jpg/250px-Ajuntastat.jpg
And although you can't see it, the statue actually does not have a completely shaved head as it appears to have when looking at it from the front. When I last played KOTOR II, I viewed the same statue in the Jedi Enclave sublevel from the back, and it has hair on the back of its head, like a normal receding hairline.

spyblade
07-09-2007, 08:12 PM
I like it. The skin tone looks really cool. Too bad about the blue glow, but not your fault. Would it be possible to have Ajunta Pall deactivate the blue glow with a script during the conversation?...I can't quite remember how the sequence goes in the game, though.
I remember somebody - I think House of Anon - made a mod that removes all force powers and buffing items - Force Dispel on kotorfiles, i think. Since the shield effect probably isn't really a shield, I don't know how that would work on it. Something like that mod might work, though. Just an idea.

Good work :)

Silveredge9
07-09-2007, 08:55 PM
Sounds good.:)

Oh, also, based on the statue in his tomb, Ajunta Pall was bald. His head looks very much like that of Nemo, but the face is closer to that of Deadeye Duncan. Perhaps you could create a new head using parts from both?
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/thumb/3/3e/Ajuntastat.jpg/250px-Ajuntastat.jpg
And although you can't see it, the statue actually does not have a completely shaved head as it appears to have when looking at it from the front. When I last played KOTOR II, I viewed the same statue in the Jedi Enclave sublevel from the back, and it has hair on the back of its head, like a normal receding hairline.
Was that ever confirmed as actually being Ajunta Pall? It could easily be just a generic statue.

Now I've research into it, removing the blue glow is simple, I'll just attach a script I've cooked up to the first line of the Ajunta Pall dialogue, and the blue glow disappears.

Zerimar Nyliram
07-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Well, it's in his tomb so I can imagine why it would be anyone different. The Sith had no deities, only the dark side of the Force, so that rules out it being any sort of God. Also, I thought you based your current skin on this one, albeit taken from Deadeye, since it looks a lot like the statue in the face. I was certain of it! I'm really surprised that that wasn't the case.

Also, I'm very please that you've managed to figure out how to remove the shield effect as it wasn't convincing at all. Are you still planning on making it ghostly-looking, though? I wish you could use the hologram format from KOTOR 2 as a base, but I think it's impossible to import that into this game. Any other way of making it transparent, blue, and shiny?

Silveredge9
07-10-2007, 07:56 AM
Still, just because it's a ghost, doesn't mean it has to be 'transparent, blue and shiny'. I'm not trying to create something that looks like it come straight out of scooby doo.

And yeah, the fact that I chose deadeye duncan was actually nothing to do with the fact that he looks like the statue. To be honest, I'd completely forgotten about it until you mentioned it. :P

Kazeite
07-10-2007, 09:41 AM
Regarding Tales of the Jedi examples... I don't think they're admissable as examples of how ol' Ajunta shoud look like. It's because KOTORs represent clear and concious departure from the art style presented in TOJ. No organic-looking ships, no elaborate head-dresses, etc.

Silveredge9
07-10-2007, 10:26 AM
I've been working on the head a little. Below, a screenshot with Sith eyes, and a screenshot without. Further variations that will be selectable include a tatooed version.

It may not be so clear in the screenshots, but I was tweaking the 'sickliness' (for lack of a better word) of the skin, to make it appear more ghostly/undead like. :P

Ghostly eyes (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-1015-20-06-50.jpg)
Sith eyes (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-1015-16-29-06.jpg)

Edit, should be more clearer now. Different location. :P

Clickly (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-1015-31-06-71.jpg)

lactose_
07-10-2007, 11:56 AM
Interesting!

I must say I doubt the statue is meant to represent Ajunta Pall physically, since
1) he looks entirely different when he appears (showing Bioware didn't intend to make it look like him); &
2) the same statue is used in K2 somewhere else, I believe (Obsidian thinks so too).

I like the ghostly eyes more; the Sith eyes strongly contrasts with his dark circles and looks weird imho.

I'll be looking forward to when this is completed!

spyblade
07-10-2007, 12:44 PM
I tend to agree with lactose_ about the eyes and the statue. Maybe add just a tiny hint of color to the natural grey color of the ghostly eyes-- dark red, or something. imho. And I don't really think the statue matters. This is a really cool skin. #Happy about the non-glow, but would have used it anyway# As always great work with all of the skins.

Kazeite
07-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Looks nice now, although I would loose the hair and make him more ghost-like :)

stoffe
07-10-2007, 02:36 PM
I must say I doubt the statue is meant to represent Ajunta Pall physically, since
1) he looks entirely different when he appears (showing Bioware didn't intend to make it look like him); &
2) the same statue is used in K2 somewhere else, I believe (Obsidian thinks so too).


1) could just be because Bioware didn't have the time to produce an entirely unique model for such a minor character occurring only in an entirely optional side quest, making them re-use an existing model instead. If you are over-analyzing the character appearances then the vast majority of the Sith army is made up of clones produced from only 3 baseline strains. :)

2) could just be ignorance from Obsidian's part, the same way they planted banners with the symbol of the Rakatan Infinite Empire in the Mandalorian camp on Dxun, re-using existing placeables without finding out if they have any specific meaning. Most people who aren't hardcore fans won't take notice of details like that anyway. :)

Silveredge9
07-10-2007, 02:37 PM
Interesting!

I must say I doubt the statue is meant to represent Ajunta Pall physically, since
1) he looks entirely different when he appears (showing Bioware didn't intend to make it look like him); &
2) the same statue is used in K2 somewhere else, I believe (Obsidian thinks so too).

I like the ghostly eyes more; the Sith eyes strongly contrasts with his dark circles and looks weird imho.

I'll be looking forward to when this is completed!
Though with K2, it's appearance could be due to the fact that Obsidian didn't have enough time to fully model and skin a completely new statue, considering the slim timescale they had. It would have been easier just to reuse existing assets.

Probably the same scenario with Bioware too, with the fact that the original Ajunta Pall has just an altered Dark Jedi skin. :P

(Hmm, what stoffe said, thats what happens when I take a break from writing a reply for 20 mins... :P)

Edit:
Worked on the ghost eyes some more, rather pleased with them at the moment, so I don't think any more edits are necessary.

Clicky (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/Silveredge9/swkotor2007-07-1020-05-38-07.jpg)

Zerimar Nyliram
07-10-2007, 07:20 PM
Still, just because it's a ghost, doesn't mean it has to be 'transparent, blue and shiny'. I'm not trying to create something that looks like it come straight out of scooby doo.
But you should make it look like something straight out of Star Wars.;) Think of Obi-Wan's spirit as just one example.
Regarding Tales of the Jedi examples... I don't think they're admissible as examples of how ol' Ajunta should look like. It's because KOTORs represent clear and conscious departure from the art style presented in TOJ. No organic-looking ships, no elaborate head-dresses, etc.
That's because the general look of the galaxy had changed by then. In fact, the way the environments of KOTOR look and not that much different from those depicted in the Exar Kun-era TOTJ comics. In The Golden Age of the Sith and The Fall of the Sith Empire, which take place 5,000 years before the movies, we see very medieval and tribal-looking costumes as well as organic-looking ships. And those scenes that I posted were from flashbacks 3,000 years previous (7,000 years before the movies), where things look a bit older, but not by much as the Star Wars galaxy seems to evolve very slowly. In the Kun and Qel-Droma-era TOTJ comics, which take place a thousand years later (4,000 years before the movies), we see people wearing modern-looking clothes pretty much of the same style seen in the movies, with less non-organic-looking ships and weapons. The KOTOR games are set fifty some years after these comics, and the environments really hadn't changed that much aside from showing bigger, more expansive locations.

So KOTOR is consistent with TOTJ in its depiction of the Star Wars galaxy, thus having no trouble at all conceding to the galaxy having looked far more primitive and less "sleek" a thousand years previous. People think that there's a discrepancy on how KOTOR depicts the galaxy in comparison to TOTJ, but there really isn't. The thousand years since the time of Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow appears to have been a millenium of great technological revolution, and it's reasonable that that would have continued even more in the fifty or so years between TOTJ and KOTOR. Then it will obviously slow down a lot until the time of the movies.

Silveredge9
07-10-2007, 08:08 PM
But you should make it look like something straight out of Star Wars.;) Think of Obi-Wan's spirit as just one example.

Transparency is difficult to pull of, especially with heads. It tends to disappear entirely. Besides, I'm pretty happy with the 'Sixth Sense' style that I'm currently pursuing, one of a 'lingering presence'

And besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the the form of a 'force-ghost' limited to the Jedi only? And itself a technique that at least in canon, was not discovered until the end of episode 3 by Qui-Gon?

Zerimar Nyliram
07-10-2007, 08:35 PM
It's difficult to say. Before Revenge of the Sith, we see a few Jedi disappearing and becoming Force ghosts in the time of the Tales of the Jedi comics. This tells me that it was an ancient practice that gradually become forgotten over time until Qui-Gon rediscovered it.

As for the Sith, there have been many Sith ghosts: Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kun, Darth Andeddu, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Bane are the ones that I know of. However, from what I gather, they preserve themselves in a way that is artificial and totally different from that of the Jedi: they remain bound to the physical cosmos either through their attachments to various objects - crystals, armor, holocrons, etc. - or simply by their sheer malice and lingering hatred toward everything. It's sort of like their attachments to the corporal world prevent them from crossing over, whereas those Jedi who knew the secret to eternal life did cross over, but still had the power to make contact with the living Force-users, at least for a while. However, from what I can tell, Sith spirits never last forever and they eventually fade away.

As for the appearance of "Sith ghosts" in the EU, they look identical to "Jedi ghosts" in every way most of the time, except for Marka Ragnos in The Golden Age of the Sith and Jedi Academy, whose features had been twisted to look more monster-like, and he lacked a lower body and floated in the air.

If there's no way to pull this off, then I'd honestly prefer you kept the shield effect so that he still looks somewhat ghostly.

spyblade
07-10-2007, 09:45 PM
Is it possible to modify the blue glow? Maybe a reskinned, more sinister looking version of the stealthing effect.

Kazeite
07-11-2007, 05:23 AM
That's because the general look of the galaxy had changed by then. In fact, the way the environments of KOTOR look and not that much different from those depicted in the Exar Kun-era TOTJ comics.
All right :)

Nevertheless, I still think that Ajunta's ghost should be bald :)

While we're at it, I also think that Jorak Uln (the mad Sith from Tulak Hord's tomb) should also be completely bald. He just looks less... scary with those Picard style baldness. Not like scary, crazy Sith, but more like ones crazy uncle :D

lactose_
07-11-2007, 09:33 AM
1) could just be because Bioware didn't have the time to produce an entirely unique model for such a minor character occurring only in an entirely optional side quest, making them re-use an existing model instead. If you are over-analyzing the character appearances then the vast majority of the Sith army is made up of clones produced from only 3 baseline strains.

2) could just be ignorance from Obsidian's part, the same way they planted banners with the symbol of the Rakatan Infinite Empire in the Mandalorian camp on Dxun, re-using existing placeables without finding out if they have any specific meaning. Most people who aren't hardcore fans won't take notice of details like that anyway.
Though with K2, it's appearance could be due to the fact that Obsidian didn't have enough time to fully model and skin a completely new statue, considering the slim timescale they had. It would have been easier just to reuse existing assets.

Probably the same scenario with Bioware too, with the fact that the original Ajunta Pall has just an altered Dark Jedi skin. :P

(Hmm, what stoffe said, thats what happens when I take a break from writing a reply for 20 mins... :P)

Haha! Well I'll admit my suggested reasons for the discrepancy between the appearances of Ajunta and the statue are nothing more than pure conjecture, but my observations stem entirely from the game itself. The difference in appearances is clearly obvious, so I think the only people over-analysing are those who think the statue should be Ajunta.

It is a romantic idea, though, and one I surely appreciate. But don't you think it's weird that Bioware could have put more thought into making sure a statue bore Ajunta's real image, instead of putting in that same effort into (the spirit of :p) the man himself?

I guess we'll never know though, especially since it was supposed to have been Freedon Nadd instead.. who knows what the original concept was? But one thing's for sure: almost everyone would be happier if Ajunta didn't look like a stock Dark Jedi with a shield fetish.

So I say a big thank you for doing this, Silveredge9! Btw I like the finalised ghost eyes! Very cool! :D

Zerimar Nyliram
07-11-2007, 12:29 PM
I've always likened the statue's appearance in the Jedi Enclave sublevel as equivalent to the Lost Twenty busts in Attack of the Clones: Ajunta Pall may have been a revered Jedi Master at one point and his turning away from the Order sent shock waves of sadness throughout the Order. Thus, they constructed a statue of him in one of their enclaves in order to honor his memory as a Jedi.

stoffe
07-11-2007, 12:39 PM
my observations stem entirely from the game itself. The difference in appearances is clearly obvious,

As is the fact that 99% of the Dark Jedi in the game apparently are identical twins and half of them are obviously Ajunta Pall's brothers since they are using the exact same appearance models? No... It doesn't mean much, other than that it would take too much development time and take up too much space on the CDs to give every minor NPC in the game a unique appearance.


But don't you think it's weird that Bioware could have put more thought into making sure a statue bore Ajunta's real image, instead of putting in that same effort into (the spirit of :p) the man himself?

Because it's a lot harder and takes exponentially more time to make a functioning character model rather that a static statue wwithout any animations and with a simple monochrome texture? On the Effort vs. Gain scale it's a much easier way to portray a unique appearance in the game. Is that statue used in any other location in KOTOR 1?

This discussion is a bit off-topic in this thread though so I will say no more. :)

TheRealDem
07-12-2007, 10:28 PM
I really like the new version of the ghost eyes but the sith eyes.......he looks like a tweaker with em anyways this head model would be good for both K1 and TSL

Silveredge9
07-13-2007, 03:43 PM
Just a note that I'm putting this mod on hold for now, as I'm pushing the have my big project finished and released within the next few weeks. You'lle be able to view some information about this big mod soon, when I get round to posting it. :)

i_shot_the_jedi
07-14-2007, 06:25 AM
I know you're putting it on hold... but have you ever considered shading the texture a little bit blue?

Anyway, I do really like this face. Maybe you could make it available as a player character selection some time.

Silveredge9
07-14-2007, 06:59 AM
I know you're putting it on hold... but have you ever considered shading the texture a little bit blue?

Like I said, when I get back to this I plan on making a few different variations to choose from.