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View Full Version : F*** the US govt. and the DMCA, I'm goin to Canada.


BongoBob
08-04-2007, 12:57 AM
First off, read this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_hi_te/customs_gaming_raids;_ylt=AjdCs4qREBdyV19szSk0plus 0NUE

Second off, listen to me. BULLS***! That's right, bulls***. twistedsymphony of the xbox-scene forums put it much better than me. The Legality Of Modding: And Editorial (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=615575&st=0). In that, he makes several extremely valid points, including pointing out the extreme errors in the ICE's Press release. And after all of that, enjoy this, a first hand account of it all, as told by xbox-scene forums moderator and mod chip installer FallsInc (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=615642).

As FallsInc said it best, Kudos to them for going after the guy in the garage with a soldering iron, and not the actual people selling pirated games.

I've never legitimately considered moving out of the US until I've read this.

Det. Bart Lasiter
08-04-2007, 01:13 AM
Don't worry Bongo I will be writing a strongly worded letter to my Congressman ASAP.

Reclaimer
08-04-2007, 02:18 AM
I heard about that ****. There was a shop in Kansas City that got hit, but it was non profit. They still arrested the guy. They're charging him for "Illegal Modification of a Hardware Device for Non Personal Use" yet he's never made any profit from it.

It's ****ing bull****.

Lynk Former
08-04-2007, 02:30 AM
Just so ya'll know, Nintendo is in on this too
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/02/federal-modchip-raid-spans-16-us-states/

Crow_Nest
08-04-2007, 02:35 AM
Man that sucks big. I hope it doesnt happen here. :(

BongoBob
08-04-2007, 06:10 AM
Apparently all the people got caught from chipping an undercover agents wii.

Why go after the small guys performing the services instead of going after the makers of the products, or the actual people selling the pirated software? It's all just to make a point, and I think the point they made is that the DMCA is retarded and really needs attention.

Lynk Former
08-04-2007, 06:53 AM
Accessory to piracy?

Sabretooth
08-04-2007, 07:31 AM
Illicit devices like the ones targeted today are created with one purpose in mind, subverting copyright protections

Now that is just ****ing sick. I really hate it when the mainstream population talks about gaming like they've even ****ing played Pong, because it's always misleading, inaccurate or plain wrong.

Maxstate
08-04-2007, 08:38 AM
Yeah, fight the power and stick it to the man :rolleyes:


§ 1201(b)

No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that

* (A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;
* (B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof; or
* (C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that persons knowledge for use in circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof.

You know it's illegal, or at least bordering on the edge. You know it's going to get you in trouble. You know that laws and acts have been sharpened and kept up to date just for the purpose of battling the very things you are doing.

I don't see the problem, and that post from FallsInc is retarded. "I was breaking the law so they punished me!"

I might be totally wrong here but this just seems so childish, FallsInc was lucky to come out of that situation rather unscathed.

Alegis
08-04-2007, 09:31 AM
Enjoy Canada.

Gaming is a multi billion dollar industry, expect companies to resort to harsher methods to preserve their billions. They'll target anyone.

The kid is playing with fire, there is no justifying that what he has done is illegal. It's not like they refuse to go after the source and only take down the small fry. Modders like him encourage the illegal mod business.


Stealing software really has reached a disgusting banalised point, if people think that stealing isn't a crime anymore just because they all do it to some extent. You have small-fry shoplifters, you have big-time scammers - both brought to justice when they can.

Civil disobedience is still disobedience. It's illegal, it's stealing. Even if they do it for fun without any monetary gain.

Mike Windu
08-04-2007, 10:50 AM
Good googly moogly, sucks for them. :(

The fact that they've actually gone and done raids is amazing to me.

acdcfanbill
08-04-2007, 11:41 AM
Stealing software really has reached a disgusting banalised point, if people think that stealing isn't a crime anymore just because they all do it to some extent.

Stealing is a big crime, it deprives retailers of a sale and merchandise. I have no love for shoplifters. Copywrite Infringement on the other hand, deprives no one because nothing stolen. To top it off, many of those 'caught' in this had nothing to do with pirated software. It's akin to taking your car to a mechanic to have him alter it in some way that voids the warranty (mess with engine, frame).

No disagreements from me that organized piracy is bad, and I dislike anyone that sells pirated goods, but these hardly qualify at that. I rejoiced when people are caught selling copied games with modded xboxs, yet despair when those who are simply modifying hardware are taken.

The USA was founded on what was basically civil disobediance and I doubt it can be erased from our modern life.

BongoBob
08-04-2007, 03:50 PM
Yeah, fight the power and stick it to the man :rolleyes:
When did I ever say anything like that? I said f*** them, never that I was in any way rebelling or any crap like that.

You know it's illegal, or at least bordering on the edge. You know it's going to get you in trouble. You know that laws and acts have been sharpened and kept up to date just for the purpose of battling the very things you are doing.

I don't see the problem, and that post from FallsInc is retarded. "I was breaking the law so they punished me!"

I might be totally wrong here but this just seems so childish, FallsInc was lucky to come out of that situation rather unscathed.

Piracy is not the simple only purpose of these chips. I have not yet taken the time to full on read the DMCA, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it my right to make a fully working backup of a product for personal use only? I mean, if I buy a cd, or in this case a video game, I can't make a backup for myself, in order to keep the original in good condition? Also, I've used my xbox to play a burned game all of one time, a copy of a game that I had that no longer works (NHL Hitz 20-03). The rest of my modded xbox usage has been for emulation (of games I already own), linux, and homebrew apps, the biggest of which is Xbox Media Center. So no, piracy is not the only purpose of these devices. However, most idiots use them for this, and they're the ones that give legit modders like myself that do it for fun a bad name.

Like twistedsymphony said, it's like a knife. It can be used for many legitimate things (cooking, carving, etc), but can also be used to injure or take a life. Now of course modding doesn't kill, but it's also up to the end user. It can be used for XBMC, Homebrew games and apps, and playing legal backups of games they personally own. However, they can also use it for piracy.

And yes, technically FallsInc was "breaking the law," but that's the problem. With the bloated DMCA, it can be interpreted so broadly that it's practically up to the companies to decide when and how they want to leverage the DMCA against you. And in the end who is breaking the law more? The man with the soldering iron in the garage? Or the person pirating the software with the sheer purpose of selling it for his own profit?

Stealing is a big crime, it deprives retailers of a sale and merchandise. I have no love for shoplifters. Copywrite Infringement on the other hand, deprives no one because nothing stolen. To top it off, many of those 'caught' in this had nothing to do with pirated software. It's akin to taking your car to a mechanic to have him alter it in some way that voids the warranty (mess with engine, frame).

Exactly. When the punishment for downloading a cd online is extremely worse than showplifting one from your local Wal-Mart, you know somethings f***ed up.

No disagreements from me that organized piracy is bad, and I dislike anyone that sells pirated goods, but these hardly qualify at that. I rejoiced when people are caught selling copied games with modded xboxs, yet despair when those who are simply modifying hardware are taken.

The USA was founded on what was basically civil disobediance and I doubt it can be erased from our modern life.

Quoted for emphasis.

Curt-Man
08-04-2007, 04:08 PM
Too lazy to mod=no problems :P. but I agree modding isn't illegal, the only pirates that are cool are those that sail the seas.

TiE23
08-04-2007, 05:58 PM
If you could somehow arrest everyone who has committed a crime on the computer in America, there'd be 25 million more people in jail tomorrow.

acdcfanbill
08-04-2007, 08:22 PM
If you could somehow arrest everyone who has committed a crime on the computer in America, there'd be 25 million more people in jail tomorrow.

If you extend that to any type of law breaking, no doubt you'd have to throw 300 million people in jail.

Samuel Dravis
08-04-2007, 09:33 PM
But they aren't in jail, and now the content industry has a big stick to wave on them. The DMCA does not technically make fair use rights illegal; it simply makes circumventing (or aiding in the said circumvention of) any DRM put on media illegal. So they put some DRM on something and it becomes impossible to exercise your rights without violating the law.

The best way to enforce control is to make everyone into criminals.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/7/121215.shtml

Det. Bart Lasiter
08-04-2007, 10:40 PM
But they aren't in jail, and now the content industry has a big stick to wave on them. The DMCA does not technically make fair use rights illegal; it simply makes circumventing (or aiding in the said circumvention of) any DRM put on media illegal. So they put some DRM on something and it becomes impossible to exercise your rights without violating the law.

The best way to enforce control is to make everyone into criminals.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/7/121215.shtml
What about http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/Metrocop_GScott.jpg?

Sabretooth
08-04-2007, 11:04 PM
the only pirates that are cool are those that sail the seas.

Ah, you mean the smugglers. You have a rather discriminating view on crime, I see.

What about *blarg* ?

EVERYBODY TO YOUR CROWBARS!!

Anthony
08-04-2007, 11:40 PM
Come to Canada. We be pirates yar etc.

BongoBob
08-05-2007, 05:12 AM
http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9753848-7.html

Yet another good article surfaces.

BongoBob
08-06-2007, 10:46 PM
Sorry for double post, but required for bumpage. Will edit into other post and delete this one once someone else posts.

Now bastard's like this are the ones they should be going after. (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=616148)

"300-400 copied game disks"

Clearly not backups. This guy took the information and skills and took it to the dark side, making money from the works of others illegally.

f*** him.

Prime
08-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Funny enough, there was a piece on the news the other day about how there is a big influx of Americans coming to live in Canada...