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View Full Version : Should the Mando's be Murdered?


SilentScope001
08-16-2007, 10:26 PM
Yeah. Time to advocate for genocide of a race that doesn't exist!

Now, the Republic has committed genocide before, killing off a ton of Sith during the Great Sith War, I believe. And I make a speculation that the True Sith will be genocided in K3. Not to mention Revan and Exile are the biggest butchers ever in the KOTOR series. So, yeah, genocide is a totally Light Sided Act if you are doing so out of a sense of calm and without any sort of passion, so don't go and start screaming about the rights of people in the Star Wars universe. Don't blame me, blame George Lucas.

Now that we get that off the way. Jhuani is angry at the Mando's, showcasing her racism. Carth is angry at the Mando's for causing much damage. The Mandolorains are worse than the Sith, the Sith at least do it for power. The Mando's do it for fun! Canderous is very Dark Sided in both games, will ally with Revan no matter what he does, never like the Republic at all...

Even my DSM Revan Force-Choked Canderous and tortuted him, because not only were the Mandalorians mindless bastards who make Malak look smart, but because they were weak mindless bastards. They deserve their fate, they deserve to die a death that will last millenia, due to their arrogance.

They are a threat. To the Republic, to the galaxy, to themselves. And no, I am not advocating for genocide, but what I do want to do is cause a debate. Would it be okay to "off" the Mandalorians? Would it be okay to "ethnically cleanse" them?

Remember, this is the Star Wars universe. You can cause much mayhem and destruction at will as long as you have inner calm and peace and you are not doing so out of rage but out of concern, and love.

JK24
08-17-2007, 09:50 AM
Well, you're wrong about one thing...they don't do what they do for fun, they do it because they're bound by their honour and pride. And according to Carth and Revan, the Mandalorian Wars wasn't their choice. They were goaded by an "unknown" Sith faction(this I know from Wookieepedia), probably the True Sith. As Canderous said in K1: "The Sith came to us with an offer – to fight a worthy enemy in a battle that would be remembered forever." Sure they didn't have to take up this challenge, but they were bound to take it by their honor, which in this case proved to be their weakness IMO. They seemed to be just pawns for the True Sith in the Mandalorian Wars, fact demonstrated by what they did to Cathar(they enslaved and massacred the Cathar species). It was later theorized that it was the Sith's idea to do that, so as to draw the Jedi into the conflict.

They did seem on the way to some sort of redemption in K2, as they helped the Exile(if LS) to stabilize Onderon and save Telos, insuring the Republic's existence. I can't really give a final verdict on this question though...maybe the Mandalorians are gonna continue "redeeming" themselves in K3 by helping the Republic, but who knows. And if they do redeem themselves, I'm not certain it would be enough to make up for what they did in the Mando Wars, at least in the Republic's eyes. If they were to be judged in a Republic court, they would certainely be murdered, probably because they deserved but also because of the opinion that has been formed about them.

EDIT: Oh, and another thing, they're not the weak, mindless bastards you make them out to be. If they would've been that way I doubt they could've brought the Republic on the brink of defeat during the Mando Wars.

SilentScope001
08-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Well, to make myself clear, their "honor" is, to me, actually "fun". I mean, what's the point of fame and glory and all that nonsense? By proving yourself stronger than someone else? I mean, the Sith are doing this because they want to be more powerful, but the Mandos are only doing this to make themselves look good in their own eyes. Sounds like fun to me.

And I also don't think they really did threaten the Republic, and even if they did, they still were pretty mindless brutes. I side with Kreia on this one.

Allronix
08-17-2007, 07:09 PM
The roughest equivilent to them is Roddenberry's Klingons - with Karen Traviss doing for them what Ron Moore did for the Klingons.

Their real-world ancestors are Mongols, Spartans, Germanic tribes, Vikings, Zulus. You can't and really shouldn't destroy them...but you'll need to channel that need to constantly test and prove themselves to other venues. I've often joked that competetive sports is how modern man channels that instinct.

Honestly, I can see Canderous taking the Mandalorians in the dirtection of being less pirates and thugs and more in line with a culture that will constantly test themselves and their honor...but not by grand warfare. Malachor left too few of them to go that direction ever again. Instead, the contest will be an individual contest - bounty-hunting, exploration, mercenary work, and cultivating a reputation of being an honorable bada$$ - the route we see in the Fetts 4000 years later.

JK24
08-17-2007, 07:41 PM
Honestly, I can see Canderous taking the Mandalorians in the dirtection of being less pirates and thugs and more in line with a culture that will constantly test themselves and their honor...but not by grand warfare. Malachor left too few of them to go that direction ever again. Instead, the contest will be an individual contest - bounty-hunting, exploration, mercenary work, and cultivating a reputation of being an honorable bada$$ - the route we see in the Fetts 4000 years later.

That's what it sais on Wookieepedia about Revan's resoning in ordering Canderous to reunite the remaining Mandalorian tribes, so that they could be remembered as honorable warriors. That's why Jango and Bobba wore their armour much later.

Alexander the Great
08-17-2007, 07:50 PM
The Mandalorians don't die out until much later. Jango Fett was raised by Mandalorians (IIRC), so that means they only died out a little while before the PT.

Totenkopf
08-17-2007, 08:03 PM
Killing them off would be pointless. You never know when you might need someone with their skill sets in a crunch. Remember, yesterday's enemy might be tomorrow's ally.

Chonan45
08-18-2007, 02:58 PM
Firstly, weren’t the Mandalorian people (the taung) already genocided at Malachor? If so, the survivors are more like a gang than a people.

Whether they are worse than the Sith is debatable (but I tend to agree), but I find it hard to believe that the Republic would willingly commit genocide or the Jedi support or sanction the idea. Juhani and Carth’s anger towards the Mandalorians is justified, but I can’t see either agree to or partaking in a genocide. In Juhani’s dialogue (you may need the mod that restores the cut content) there is an option for the player to suggest to team up and kill Canderous–Juhani refuses.

They are a threat. To the Republic, to the galaxy, to themselves. And no, I am not advocating for genocide, but what I do want to do is cause a debate. Would it be okay to “off” the Mandalorians? Would it be okay to “ethnically cleanse” them?

I don’t think it would be okay, but it might be necessary* given the attitudes expressed by some of the Mandalorians in their secret camp on Dxun (they seem to have learned nothing).

As Canderous said in K1: “The Sith came to us with an offer – to fight a worthy enemy in a battle that would be remembered forever.”

See that, and Canderous later admitting to razing entire worlds, wiping out entire species just to provoke a fight with the Republic, is why I think the Mandalorians as bad as, or worse, than the Sith.

They did seem on the way to some sort of redemption in K2, as they helped the Exile(if LS) to stabilize Onderon and save Telos,

Not exactly. Canderous preferred Vaklu and at Telos they were out to get the ship for being at Malachor. In neither case were they deliberately helping the Republic or the Jedi, that was simply happenstance and therefore no redemption.

maybe the Mandalorians are gonna continue “redeeming” themselves in K3 by helping the Republic,

That is a possibility, but they do have quite a lot to make up for. Canderous’ back story suggest that he and other Mandalorians were tolerated, not because they had been forgiven, but because the Republic and the Jedi were distracted by Revan’s Sith.

they’re not the weak, mindless bastards you make them out to be. If they would’ve been that way I doubt they could’ve brought the Republic on the brink of defeat during the Mando Wars.

Mindless brutality seemed to have served the Mongols, the Huns, the Vikings, Timur Lenk, the Islamic hordes after the death of their prophet, etc. pretty well against nearby civilizations.

* There is what is right, what is wrong, and what is necessary. And the latter often trumps the former two.

Alexander the Great
08-18-2007, 03:04 PM
Firstly, weren’t the Mandalorian people (the taung) already genocided at Malachor? If so, the survivors are more like a gang than a people.

Only the ones who fled battle (like on Dantooine and Kashyyyk in K1) were the thug kind. The ones that stayed in battle and survived, like Canderous, were considered Mandalorian "people".

stoffe
08-18-2007, 04:13 PM
I find it hard to believe that the Republic would willingly commit genocide or the Jedi support or sanction the idea.

According to what was said in K2:TSL the Republic fleet did bomb the homeworld of the Ubese into a radioactive ball, which was mentioned as the reason why the Ubese hated Jedi so much. So they don't seem above such actions.

JK24
08-18-2007, 04:51 PM
Firstly, weren’t the Mandalorian people (the taung) already genocided at Malachor? If so, the survivors are more like a gang than a people.

Actually the taung species did become extinct, but not at Malachor(see this article about the species: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Taung). As you can see, it's not certain when they became extinct, but I think they were on their way to becoming extinct at the end of The Great Sith War(the one against Exar Kun and Ulic). It was at the beginning of the Mando War, that Mandalore the Ultimate began recruiting other species for his army(including humans, twileks, rodians, etc). Under him, the Mandalorians became more like a warrior cult and as was said only the ones on Dantooine and Kashyyyk became thugs.

I don’t think it would be okay, but it might be necessary* given the attitudes expressed by some of the Mandalorians in their secret camp on Dxun (they seem to have learned nothing).

They seemed to have learned nothing because of their warrior code...in TSL the term Mandalorian has become more like a belief IMO. And even if they would want to cause another conflict, they're numbers are too thin now.

Ctrl Alt Del
08-18-2007, 07:57 PM
No. They shouldn't be "exterminated", just weakened. Why, the Republic controls much of the known space on that time, and has great influence everywhere. They just had to impose economical and weapons sanctions to avoid the Mandalorians recuperation. But, of course, that wasn't the Republic's choice. Revan did that alone on Malachor with the help of The Mass Shadow Generator.

See that, and Canderous later admitting to razing entire worlds, wiping out entire species just to provoke a fight with the Republic, is why I think the Mandalorians as bad as, or worse, than the Sith.

Well, that's not their honor sense talking, doing that for fun. That's strategy. The Republic was defensive, something that would render any attack useless. To provoke them on loosing their forces and expose the Core they did such raiding tactics. Can call that casualties of war.

Jvstice
08-22-2007, 02:43 AM
Well, that's not their honor sense talking, doing that for fun. That's strategy. The Republic was defensive, something that would render any attack useless. To provoke them on loosing their forces and expose the Core they did such raiding tactics. Can call that casualties of war.

I'm glad someone finally pointed out the obvious. Canderous was quite clear that mandalorians didn't "enjoy" mowing down civilian targets. It was something he saw as an unpleasant but necessary task, and from the way he talks to Revan it sounded like he was typical of the way the Mandalorians as a whole saw their attacks on civilian targets.

Then if you look at the war of Exar Kuhn. The mandalore at the time's first attempt at fighting the sith was to attack the sith forces and threaten to tie them up in battle, thus leaving them weakened when the republic came looking for them, unless Ulic agreed to individual hand to hand combat with Mandalore himsef.

The mandalorians will find who they consider to be worthy adversaries, and will do whatever it takes to draw them into combat.

PoiuyWired
08-22-2007, 09:20 AM
Well, even in the Revan Era "KotOR" comic series it is said that the mandos don't enjoy/prefer non military targets. That having said, if the republic decides to turtle up with the civilians as meatshields, MAndos are more than willing to bomb them all skyhigh together. While Mandos prefer a more honorable battle, they are also more than willing to use underhand tactics against unhonorable foes.

Plus, special cases aside, mandos do seem to treat subjucated worlds reasonably. Obviously if militias are mixed in with the crowd and what not then everything is fair game, but other than those examples Mandos does not seem to enjoy feats like random slaughtering unless needed.

As for target jedis... well these are military personels so everything goes. Whatever you say but a lightsaber is definitely a deadly weapon, and jedis are definitely (potential) threat that should be studied and dealt with, not to mention a well matched foe. Having fun while studying them is just a bonus.

Chonan45
08-26-2007, 10:24 AM
Canderous was quite clear that mandalorians didn’t ”enjoy“ mowing down civilian targets. It was something he saw as an unpleasant but necessary task,

It was the Mandalorians who started the war to begin with. Mowing down civilians makes the Mandalorians dishonorable and show that they have no humanity.

That having said, if the republic decides to turtle up with the civilians as meatshields, MAndos are more than willing to bomb them all skyhigh together. While Mandos prefer a more honorable battle, they are also more than willing to use underhand tactics against unhonorable foes.

This merely makes the Mandalorians hypocrites. They claim to want a challenge, but when faced with it–trying to root out an enemy that has set up defensive positions–they choose the easy way and nuke everything.

The Mandalorins may think that there is no honor in fighting the weak–yet they did. They may think that there is no honor in bombing civilians targets–yet they did. And considering an enemy who refuses to fight on their terms dishonorable? If that is honor, it is an honor only worth wiping your behind with.

Plus, special cases aside, mandos do seem to treat subjucated worlds reasonably.

Where is there any evidence that the Mandalorians treated the conquered worlds reasonably? What you get from the game strongly suggest otherwise. In kotor2 you can talk to Mira and even she will admit that the Mandalorains got what they deserved at Malachor because:

”Yeah, I know. I saw the worlds they left behind them during the war. That kind of stays with you–I haven’t forgotten it. What happened at Malachor–they, they probably deserved it."

Having fun while studying them is just a bonus.

So torture is fine, just so long as it is Mandalorians doing it? :roleyess:

The Mandalorians are like rabid dogs and it may be prudent to deal with them accordingly (ie. put down).

Ctrl Alt Del
08-31-2007, 09:12 PM
It was the Mandalorians who started the war to begin with. Mowing down civilians makes the Mandalorians dishonorable and show that they have no humanity.

But analyzing everything from a cold point of view, that is the best strategic option. What else could they do to attract the Republic into the war? Destroying random asteroids? No, of course they would burn worlds and it's respectively senators would burn the Republic as well. So, war was the option they chosen. Was there other paths to take. Yeah, there was, but that was better (again, seeing everything coldly)

Where is there any evidence that the Mandalorians treated the conquered worlds reasonably? What you get from the game strongly suggest otherwise. In kotor2 you can talk to Mira and even she will admit that the Mandalorains got what they deserved at Malachor because:

”Yeah, I know. I saw the worlds they left behind them during the war. That kind of stays with you–I haven’t forgotten it. What happened at Malachor–they, they probably deserved it."

Agreed, the few evidences we have shows that being under mandalorian rule is no better than being under Sith's.

JoeDoe 2.0
08-31-2007, 09:24 PM
What Mira says applies to the worlds destroyed by the Mandalorians, remember that they wanted to conquer, not annihilate. But it also could apply to what happened to the subjugated worlds, they conquered and subjugated its species, making them slaves and adding more warriors to their ranks. they probably drained the world's resources too.

And about the killing of innocents, when a country or planet doesn't subjugate, you simply destroy it and goad its defense force to fight, thats what they were doing. I compare them to the Mongols under Genghis Khan.

Alexander the Great
08-31-2007, 10:46 PM
Just so everyone knows, the Mandalorians never technically die out. Clone Troopers are considered Mandalorians since they were cloned from one.

So no, they can't be "cleansed". Even after Boba Fett, they're resurrected using remnants of the Clone Wars.

PoiuyWired
09-01-2007, 08:14 PM
Just so everyone knows, the Mandalorians never technically die out. Clone Troopers are considered Mandalorians since they were cloned from one.

So no, they can't be "cleansed". Even after Boba Fett, they're resurrected using remnants of the Clone Wars.

Plus, there are many people on Mandalore that is bloodline related to the Mandalorian Mercs we know of, so there is plenty of recuits.

Oh the whole "Mandalorian Ethnic Cleansing" thing. There is no stopping anyone to try doing such a thing. But apparently enen the Empire does not think this is necessary. Plus, trying to do that would only force the Mandalorians into hiding, where they will respond with even more brutal hide-n-seek tactics in return, even acts akin to terrorism.

Better leave them alone than having them round the galaxy training any anti-republic elements around to be deadly warriors.

Rogue Warrior
09-18-2007, 06:16 AM
Yeah, their belief drives them to kill.