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Darth Avlectus
08-22-2007, 05:30 AM
Who thinks it history should be one that is shrouded in dark mystique?

I have stated many times: I believe it too should be ancient in the SW history, dating back almost to the invention of the lightsaber itself.
Owing to the fact that the fighting style is aggressive and can be/is underhanded made it a double no-no and therefore shunned by the jedi...in a nutshell...And how ironic that someone whom you are hunting, a jedi herself, will be using it to fight for her life against you.

I think ths is awesome. I understand there is like 11 saber forms--this'd make 12!

I also think a hand to hand option would kick @$$! or hand to waepon. Like energy bucklers and gauntlets. Maybe GTA, saints row, scarface and all that have become a bit of a favorite of mine, but while we are on the subject of realistic combat, there is nothing better than stomping your opponent down if you lose your saber!

Back to tonfa sabers, they obviously need to have handles capable of withstanding lightsaber blades repeatedly assaulting and battering them--else it just inst like the tonfa. ^_^
I am so happy this made it to a SW game. Though my thread was more foucused with a strider style hilt, the basic idea came through! HAHA! The concept finally reached someone in power at lucasarts!

In all actuality, the form err style should be able to counter most other saber forms and styles. Might have a bit of trouble against a double bladed lightsaber. Or form 7. Maybe form 2 might give it a hard time.

Tonfa form 7.......THAT would kick @$$!

Also, since Vaapad died out, the only 7th form will be Juyo. Unfortunately I do not see anybody being able to teach it to you except the emperor himself. For continuity sake, that cannot happen. Of course, I don't know how sidious could have known it anyway even that form since he was the culmination of Bane's sith lineage and bane never learned Juyo. Its possible one of the lost 20 could have added it in. Like Darth Ruin.

Since this game will not be a combat sim type according to Hayden Blackman, I rather expect this could be nothing but a trivial and simplistic appearance. I hope it is not.

What do y'all think for the tonfa saber. Good addition? Bad addition? Will it be great or not?

Set the world afire...I'm waiting...

Ztalker
08-22-2007, 06:29 AM
Imo, it's a very bad addition. :(

1) Of course it looks cool, but that might be the only reason they added it into the game, just for the sake of uniqueness.
2) Double bladed weapons are okay. There are many people who fight with them in the games/expaned universe/real world. Can't say that about this new typ though. It's...apperance...just isn't justified. (Again, imo)
3) Sith are known for coming up with unique styled bladed:
Exar Kun - Double Blades lightsaber
Lumiya - Lightwhip
Ludo Kresh - Short Saber (Kotor 2)
Imo, Jedi should just wield a Single saber. Call me a purist, but I just don't like the double Bladed and dual-wield styles.
4) When it enters the game, it will be forced into the Star Wars Canon. Maybe it will be 'forced' into the comics/books then. Imagine Jacen Solo fighting Jedi with the Tonfa sabers just because of that...

Sorry, I'm not thrilled with the idea of the Tonfa saber. The Samurai Jedi Master seemd so much better. He's exactly like I imagined a Jedi in that time to be. :)

PoiuyWired
08-22-2007, 08:34 AM
Don't forget the Dark Jedi that begins the Janassary order, he got his own special style too.

I think having a new style or not, really isn't a problem. Well, as long as it is nicely executed. But I DO THINK that the Tonfa Lightsaber have a "design flaw" There should be a "short protective side panel" on the inner side of the blade where it goes parallel to the arm, or some of the blocking action of a tonfa would be void, on the grounds that your own saber would split open your arm. Oh, a short vibroblade/spike on the other end would help also, better yet if its a small blaster.

Yes, even before this I had the idea of a tonfa lightsaber, even before that Darth Maul comic, but in the end I think there are more practical and innovative concept than a tonfa( or the concept of a lightsaber claw gauntlet).

Ctrl Alt Del
08-22-2007, 05:47 PM
Forms highly focused on attack, like the Ataru, would give one with Tonfa sabers a hard time. I guess their best defense is agility, to evade.

Imo, it's a very bad addition. :(

3) Sith are known for coming up with unique styled bladed:
Exar Kun - Double Blades lightsaber
Lumiya - Lightwhip
Ludo Kresh - Short Saber (Kotor 2)
Well, Jedi have too, but I guess that Sith likes to show they're different.

Imo, Jedi should just wield a Single saber. Call me a purist, but I just don't like the double Bladed and dual-wield styles.

It seems so. But if the Jedi Order isn't very strict with individual forms/stances, then it shouldn't have a grudge against saber variations. Besides, that'syour purist opinion :p

Darth Avlectus
08-26-2007, 11:05 AM
It's just that in order to be effective with the style, the self motivation needs to come from cerrtain traits--you obviously have to be more aggressive. In order to capitalize on oppotrunity for success, it sometimes means taking cheap shots and being underhanded. This is also the difference between sith and jedi lightsaber forms.

So nobody really gives a filp of its potential history?

Ztalker, that's ok, at least you were honest about your opinion. Are you a fencer or a daggerist?

The order may not be strict with individual forms and stances, BUT they rather tend to frown upon incompleteness, or those requiring traits that give way to the dark side. Like Juyo.

Juyo is a variation and a sort of combination of ataru, soresu, makashi and shien--perhaps even djem so later on. to that effect the 8th form Jar Kai. Vaapad was a rebuttle to be able to misdirect and defend against juyo while still maintaining impressive attack.

Actually pouiy this style that maris has is less prone to cutting their arms open with a block (though I'd like it if the emitter was extended out beyond the elbow). If you look at the blocking action of this one as opposed to say strider hiryu's sword, the lightsaber blade itself will NEVER be parallel to the arm. It'll be the hilt itself which probably has cortosis and mandalorian ore. for the most part thr hilts will be used, the sabers are additions to it.

I can imagine somebody with vibro kabals catching one or both blades and using leverage to pull them back down and under, slicing the tonfa saber wielder in half at the hips. or up above it'll take the head off. But that assumesyou have an ability to even get close enough. I imagine that the tonfa style maris has will be a lot like ataru. Still, it remains to be seen whether it is really so flawed or not.

Ctrl alt del, I would agree, the order doesn't. As flawed as juyo was having no defense and simply just kill kill kill, they kept it, htough they did not consider it to be a primary form.

LordSerion
08-27-2007, 02:37 PM
It will be interesting to fight Maris, no doubt. I personally belive, that Juyo cannot have Soresu elements, if you think it is a style lacking defense, since Soresu is the most defensive form in the classic seven forms. Anyway, do you think they'll put all the styles in? I mean the "egzotic" ones - like Sokan, or the formidable Trakata?

PoiuyWired
08-27-2007, 04:21 PM
So nobody really gives a filp of its potential history?


Actually I am more than Interested in its history and development. I would guess that in all likelyness the style may have its roots in a species with the culture of using a tonfa like weapon.


Actually pouiy this style that maris has is less prone to cutting their arms open with a block (though I'd like it if the emitter was extended out beyond the elbow). If you look at the blocking action of this one as opposed to say strider hiryu's sword, the lightsaber blade itself will NEVER be parallel to the arm. It'll be the hilt itself which probably has cortosis and mandalorian ore. for the most part thr hilts will be used, the sabers are additions to it.


Well, not blocking with the saber parallel to the arms would be my guess also, but I have the fear that the game designers may forget a thing or two about this, and only draw ideas out of RL tonfa without thinking of the uniqueness of the lightsaber blade, like many things they do with sabercombat in games.


I can imagine somebody with vibro kabals catching one or both blades and using leverage to pull them back down and under, slicing the tonfa saber wielder in half at the hips. or up above it'll take the head off. But that assumesyou have an ability to even get close enough. I imagine that the tonfa style maris has will be a lot like ataru. Still, it remains to be seen whether it is really so flawed or not.


That is actually one of my worries also, as well as the balancing of the weapon during blade-to-blade impact, one of the reasons why RL tonfa are usually not long sticks. It would be nice to see the handle being able to slide along the lightsaber shaft mechanically at will, which would solve most of these problems, but thats more than just wishful thinking.

I really hope they would release some flicks for these tonfa actions, so someone can give more honest feedback. Better yet, they should ask some real martial artist, and build a few model tonfa-sabers to test out some of the moves.


Ctrl alt del, I would agree, the order doesn't. As flawed as juyo was having no defense and simply just kill kill kill, they kept it, htough they did not consider it to be a primary form.

Well, sometimes it calles for a more destructive form. While mercy is shown towards other sentients, there are machines and even creatures while no mercy can be shown.

Personally I would like to see a more gritty style. Things like a saber + pistol combo would be extremely effective in the hands of a force wielder, especially when it comes to a slug thrower. Also nice would be the use of more sidearms, things like small vibroblades, ranged weaponary and what not. Even real samurais on the battlefield would carry an assortment of knives and thrown weapons and what not...

Lets hope that this merc like Jedi General may be a more realistic version of a veteran used to the battlefield.

Nancy Allen``
12-02-2007, 08:42 AM
Some how these seem familiar.

http://ironmouse.za.org.nyud.net:8090/dragon/orchid/001/9813.jpg

I also think a hand to hand option would kick @$$! or hand to waepon. Like energy bucklers and gauntlets.

Absolutely. I've always wanted this, where you could grab someone's arm as they swiped with a lightsaber and stabbed them, disarmed them or something.

Serpentine Cougar
12-02-2007, 03:45 PM
I think it's cool that they're trying something new, though it would be stupid if all the comics started implementing tonfa-sabers now, too.

How long do you think it'll be before they come up with a way to make an axe-saber?

adamqd
12-07-2007, 06:43 PM
I don't really care for them, they don't look particularly cool or different, Plus there not practical, imagine a meter long blade coming out of your elbow, and what awkward positions you'd have to get in to defend yourself. Obviously you could still use them like regular hilts, but there really just a gimmick.

PoiuyWired
12-07-2007, 10:01 PM
I think it's cool that they're trying something new, though it would be stupid if all the comics started implementing tonfa-sabers now, too.

How long do you think it'll be before they come up with a way to make an axe-saber?

Actually a lightsaber tonfa exists in the comics before TFU, I think in the Darth Maul series, used by some chix0r.

Well, axe would be stupid. They tried to make Ventress's saber set into Nunchucks. And seriously it would only be time before some lightsaber polearm (and god forbid, syche) shows up.

Personally I do think that a lightsaber polearm in the form of a saber-on-a-long-handle would work great, and be both cool and practical. No, the saber end should be just straight up single long blade, no angulated weird things.

Given that the pole can be made of phick/cortosis alloy and what not it would be good for defence, and the other end of the device can be armed with a vibro-spike, stun spear or even a blaster. Then there is the idea of a(set of) mechanical hinge that allows for angle adjustment on the stick and/or the other weapon head. Now you get a weapon that takes advantage of technology advancement. This would be mostly a weapon for the sith though, but a jedi can definitely make use of a stun spear head on the other end for some nice subdue action.

adamqd
12-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Personally I do think that a lightsaber polearm in the form of a saber-on-a-long-handle would work great, and be both cool and practical. No, the saber end should be just straight up single long blade, no angulated weird things.

Agreed, the Blind Journeyman Jedi Zao used one prior to Episode III...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zao

PoiuyWired
12-08-2007, 01:42 AM
Well, yes Master Zao and also Darth Nihl of the Legacy Era.

But I am talking about something even more technologically induced, and even longer. The long length would not be a problem if the thing is collaspable/retractable. Plus, the "other" non-saber end can be deadly too.

TKA-001
12-08-2007, 04:37 PM
I think the tonfa saber, just like the lightwhip and forked-saber, is a stupid waste of creativity. It's gotten to the point where I view a Jedi who has a SINGLE blade as unique. The regular, curved, and double-bladed sabers are the only ones that are needed. The tonfa saber doesn't even look practical anyway.

PoiuyWired
12-08-2007, 06:22 PM
Well thats because the designer does not know much about weapon fighting!!

Personally I think the tonfa saber is wrongly designed. Yes, a tonfa saber can exist, and even be practical, but not in the way it is shown so far in the images. From what we can see currently the weapon is only good for 1) removing your own bodyparts during action, 2) stikes weaker than a normal saber with almost no extra bonus 3) completely nullify the advantages of tonfa, whichever variants you might be thinking about.

Ctrl Alt Del
12-10-2007, 07:20 AM
3) completely nullify the advantages of tonfa, whichever variants you might be thinking about.

That's what I'm saying: Any stronger blow that one may repel using the Tonfa can cut your own arm.

Prime
01-04-2008, 11:54 AM
Tonfa = GIMIC!

PoiuyWired
01-05-2008, 02:17 PM
No Kidding. Espically true for a poorly constructed style and self abusive weapon design.

Personally I am all for new styles and sub styles and what not, but at least try to keep it reasonable and useful within universe.

Example, the idea of a lightsaber gauntlet is at least useful, That would allow for more flexable use of hand while in combat, perhaps even the use of blasters and other weaponary. While lightsaber fork is not and is a whaste of powercells, and that you are better off making the smaller blade a vibroblade or even a simple piece of lightsaber resistant pointy stuff.