PDA

View Full Version : I liked Cheney better when he was Secretary of Defense


Achilles
08-28-2007, 08:59 PM
SoD Cheney uses his powers for good (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY)

Discuss.

tk102
08-28-2007, 09:13 PM
And then the Wolfowitz Doctrine began to sink into his mind. Actually it probably already had at the time of this video. Cheney here is justifying the rationale at the time and being supportive of the GHW Bush administration.

JoeDoe 2.0
08-28-2007, 09:17 PM
And don't forget that hunting 'accident'.... :p

Achilles
08-28-2007, 09:25 PM
And then the Wolfowitz Doctrine began to sink into his mind. Actually it probably already had at the time of this video. Cheney here is justifying the rationale at the time and being supportive of the GHW Bush administration. Which makes me wonder if there's any truth to the story that Bush Sr. didn't approve of Bush Jr's invasion.

Jae Onasi
08-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Saying you like Cheney better as sec'y of defense is like saying you like cyanide better than arsenic. :D

Totenkopf
08-28-2007, 11:35 PM
Which makes me wonder if there's any truth to the story that Bush Sr. didn't approve of Bush Jr's invasion.

What difference, if any, would it really make if he had?

@Jae--so which poisons would you select for Chenney as WHCOS and Congressman? :xp:

@JoeDoe2.0--I'm sure his lawyer(?) won't :D

Qui-Gon Glenn
08-29-2007, 03:45 AM
That was an ironic piece of infotainment.

It was also, IIRC, a bit of pandering, because at the time there was common sentiment that the administration had not gone far enough in the first Desert conflagration.

Everyone in DC knows how to play CYA, and Rick Cheney is a master. (Cover Your Ass)

mimartin
08-29-2007, 03:28 PM
Does Cheney have Alzheimer? Because all Iíve heard from this Administration is we could not foresee this or that, but Cheney had a pretty good grasp of the problems of taking over Iraq back in 1994. What happen to that knowledge? And how did getting Saddam increase in importance since 1994 to justify the 3731 American Military personal killed as of 8/28? If it wasnít worth it in 1994 why was it worth it in 2003?

Achilles
08-29-2007, 04:10 PM
Does Cheney have Alzheimer? Because all Iíve heard from this Administration is we could not foresee this or that, but Cheney had a pretty good grasp of the problems of taking over Iraq back in 1994. What happen to that knowledge? And how did getting Saddam increase in importance since 1994 to justify the 3731 American Military personal killed as of 8/28? If it wasnít worth it in 1994 why was it worth it in 2003?This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking too :)
What a difference an "H" makes.

Qui-Gon Glenn
08-29-2007, 04:45 PM
Cheney now is closer to death than he was then, and like all really, really rich people... the closer to death they are, the more money they must have. You know, to take with them....

The irony is disgusting. I would give Cheney a free shot with his scattergun if he could explain what has changed between then and now.

tk102
08-29-2007, 06:45 PM
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking too :)
What a difference an "H" makes.

In 1991, Desert Storm had chased Iraq back across their own borders. They had accomplished what they had sent out to do. James Baker, Secretary of State, was quoted as saying "We did not think- the president nor any of us thought at that time that Saddam would_ would continue in power having suffered such a_ such a resounding defeat." link (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_b.html)

During the Gulf War, GWHB had called on the Iraqis (Kurds, Shias) to rise up against Saddam -- clearly he was hoping for a coup. Over the next couple years, the CIA organized/funded the Iraqi National Congress headed by Ahmed Chalabi and set up radio stations to spread anti-Saddam propoganda, eventually leading to a failed coup attempt in 1995. link (http://www.ecn.org/golfo/eng/articles/doc33eng.html)

In 1997 Cheney, along with Rumsfeld and William Kristol, founded the "Project for a New American Century" think tank which sent a letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Open_letter_t o_President_Clinton_on_Iraq) to President Clinton in 1998 calling for the ousting of Saddam through the use of military ground forces. When GWB was elected, Cheney was VP, Rumsfeld was Sec. of Defense, Wolfowitz was right there along with Scooter Libby. And Saddam was right where Cheney had left him.

The hawks were all gathered together and were just looking for an "in" to start an overt campaign against Iraq. The War on Terror provided that. A little hand-waving, an "Axis-of-Evil" speech, talk of mushroom clouds, and pressure on George Tenet to produce intelligence on WMDs that could be sold to the U.N. courtesy of Collin Powell -- and here we are.

Achilles
08-29-2007, 07:15 PM
tk,

Since you seem to be familiar with PNAC, can I ask if you've read Rebuilding America's Defences?

.pdf document (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf)
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Rebuilding_Am erica.27s_Defenses)

Since you seem to have an interest in the topic, I'd recommend that you check out Saddam Hussein: The Politics of Revenge (http://www.amazon.com/Saddam-Hussein-Politics-Said-Aburish/dp/1582340501) sometime. I think you'd like it.

tk102
08-29-2007, 07:33 PM
No I haven't -- cool thank you.
In broad terms, we saw the project as building upon the defense strategy outlined by the Cheney Defense Department in the waning days of the Bush Administration. The Defense Policy Guidance (DPG) drafted in the early months of 1992 provided a blueprint for maintaining U.S. preeminence, precluding the rise of a great power rival, and shaping the international security order in line with American principles and interests.That's a clear tie to the influence of the Wolfowitz Doctrine (aka: DPG) mentioned previously.

Thank you for another book recommendation also.

Achilles
08-29-2007, 09:31 PM
No I haven't -- cool thank you.Let me know when you get to the part about "another Pearl Harbor" :(
That's a clear tie to the influence of the Wolfowitz Doctrine (aka: DPG) mentioned previously. Yep :)
abe: btw, not sure how you feel about documentaries, but you may also like Why We Fight (http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/). It spends some time talking about the wolfowitz doctrine and is a great introduction into the military industrial complex if you are unfamiliar with the concept. Also, it includes commentary from Chalmers Johnson, whose book Nemesis we've talked about couple of times.
Thank you for another book recommendation also.'welcome