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View Full Version : Don't taze me, eh.


Totenkopf
11-17-2007, 01:17 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071116164119.5x42gxdm&show_article=1

Rev7
11-17-2007, 04:31 PM
That is pretty bad... have we all not been confused at a time in our life? I think that that was a bad choice on part of the Canadian officer. :(

Jason Skywalker
11-17-2007, 04:43 PM
This is what is wrong with the world. They clearly warned them he did not speak English and they still taze him to death.

Even if it was accidental, justice SHOULD be given swiftly with an iron fist and with no mercy, just like the officers didn't give the man, may he rest in peace.

An eye for an eye.

Q
11-17-2007, 06:11 PM
So much for "non-lethal" weapons. :rolleyes:

Rev7
11-17-2007, 06:33 PM
Tasers are generally non-leathal, but it was totally the Canadian officer's fault. The report says that the officer "repeatedly" "stunned" the man to death in "less than one minute". The officer will have to live with that for the rest of his life...

Ctrl Alt Del
11-17-2007, 06:33 PM
In one hand he holds what looks like a stapler.

The police close in on Dziekanski and stun him repeatedly with a Taser device. Dziekanski screams and writhes on the floor, and the policemen pile on top of him and pin him down. Within minutes he falls still.


Oh, he got a stapler! Taser him! Pfff.

He is watched by security guards who stand back and can be heard saying, "he's speaking Russian."[...] His family's lawyer says he spoke only Polish, and had never before wandered far from his hometown Pieszyce, Poland.

So what? I think it's quite easy for a stranger to confuse the two languages. And what if he was russian? The Cold war ended some time ago.

mimartin
11-17-2007, 07:05 PM
Tasers are generally non-leathal, but it was totally the Canadian officer's fault. Why do we consider Taser generally non-lethal? Is it because that is the way they are advertised by the manufactures? I do not know about anyone else, but 270 deaths in the U.S. alone, tells me that this is not a non-lethal weapon.
TASERs in the USA (http://www.amnestyusa.org/Domestic_Human_Rights/TASER_Abuse/page.do?id=1021202&n1=3&n2=850&n3=220)
Sure it is a lot more non-lethal than shooting them in the head with a 45, but there has to some middle ground that is a little safer than either a Taser or a bullet in the head. The Taser is obliviously not the end all non-lethal solution police were hoping it would be.

El Sitherino
11-17-2007, 07:18 PM
Tazers are non-lethal because they're meant to be used once or twice, not repeatedly. The point of tazers is that it temporarily stuns someone allowing you to subdue them using body force. Cops are getting way too trigger happy with their new little toys.

Fire them, deny retirement pay, and maybe give a nice kick in the genitals.

Congratulations Canada, you're just as screwed up as the rest of the world.

Rev7
11-17-2007, 10:37 PM
Why do we consider Taser generally non-lethal? Is it because that is the way they are advertised by the manufactures? I do not know about anyone else, but 270 deaths in the U.S. alone, tells me that this is not a non-lethal weapon.

Tazers are non-lethal because they're meant to be used once or twice, not repeatedly. The point of tazers is that it temporarily stuns someone allowing you to subdue them using body force.
That is exactly what tasers are meant for.
Cops are getting way too trigger happy with their new little toys.
What else are they supposed to use? A nightstick?A gun? Their fists? Pepperspray?

(Yes I know what you are thinking, but using pepperspray means that you have to get pretty close to person you want to use it on. This is exactly my point.)

Corinthian
11-17-2007, 10:45 PM
It's an accident. It happens. There's also probably a lot more to this story than we're being told, there usually is.

mimartin
11-17-2007, 10:56 PM
That is exactly what tasers are meant for.I'm sorry I don't understand Tasers are meant to kill 270 people?

It's an accident. It happens. There's also probably a lot more to this story than we're being told, there usually is.270 accidents in the U.S. alone.

Rev7
11-18-2007, 01:24 AM
People die mimartin. Sometimes people have health conditions and are killed because of the them. For example, in the area that I live in there are Hobo spiders. Hobo Spiders are not deadly, but in several cases people have died from them only because they had a health problem. Thus, there have been a very small percentage of people who have died from this spider bite. I think that this example fits perfectly with this situation. If you, or anyone wants to read this web page containing this information, I would be glad to PM it to you.

mimartin
11-18-2007, 02:14 AM
To me there is a vast difference between nature taking a person life and a person being killed by someone whose job is to serve and protect us. I am not saying the police should stop using Tasers and start using bullets to subdue unruly subjects, but they should use more care in using the Tasers. There should be more and better training and the Taser should not be called a non-lethal alternative. Like any weapon, it should be used with care and only by trained personal.

Is the reason that this is not a big deal is because these people are criminals? I just cannot understand why they need to die (sick or not), I thought it was up to a jury to decide what the sentence should be and not the police. If it was one or even twenty one I’d tend to agree that Tasers were worth the risk, but two hundred and seventy is a little beyond an accident and is a problem IMO.

I may be native, but I do not believe men and women that risk their life everyday to protect our safety would knowingly misuse a weapon to the extent to kill 270 in almost 7 years. Therefore, there must be a problem with the design or training and it needs to be resolved to prevent people from needlessly dieing.

Rev7
11-18-2007, 02:43 AM
Most of those deaths were because the people shot with the taser were on drugs and that is normally why the people die. I don't think that that was the case with the Polish man, and we don't know why the mounties fired the taser at him. We just don't know a lot of details. The law is different in different countries ( although I don't think that the Polish man was breaking any laws) and maybe throwing a fold-up table and a computer is against the law in Canada, or maybe the mounties tased him to protect others from this Polish man's hostile countenance. The man was obviously bothered by something. We just don't know a lot of details in this case, and details are extremely important.

El Sitherino
11-18-2007, 02:44 AM
What else are they supposed to use?
I didn't say they were supposed to use anything else, I said they shouldn't be irresponsible morons. Stun the bastard then tackle him and use the handcuffs, it's not that hard. Unless this guy was hyped up on more PCP than it takes to overdose an elephant, they didn't need to taze him more than once.

Most of those deaths were because the people shot with the taser were on drugs and that is normally why the people die.
Show us some evidence or stop making unfounded statements. From my experience, if someone was "on drugs" they'd be more likely to brush off a tazer.


And just to clarify, I don't think anyone is denying the polish guy was acting irrationally. But the police acted in a highly irresponsible manner by repeatedly tazing the man. He's 40, he's obviously going to have a heightened heart rate from his commotion, there's no reason to do that to him when they could easily taze him once to stun him and then subdue him like cops are supposed to. And you cannot reasonably tell me that these police are physically incapable of restraining a 40 year old man. If they are then they shouldn't be doing security duty, they should be minding the parking meters or feeding the horses at the stable.

Corinthian
11-18-2007, 02:55 AM
Mimartin, Tasers are not considered a "Not Dangerous" weapon. They're "Less Lethal." Which is quite true. A nightstick or a pistol shot is going to do a heck of a lot more damage than a taser shot.

You also need to consider how many people have been tasered in the United States. I don't have the numbers. So let's say it's...10000. That's probably extremely low. Painfully low, even. It could be 100 times as high as far as I know. Anyway, 270 deaths over 10000 incidents amounts to a 2.7% fatality rate.

Also, keep in mind that no weapon that's designed to put somebody down is ever going to be completely safe. The TASER is the best Less Lethal weapon we have.

Tommycat
11-18-2007, 04:45 AM
I have friends in law enforcement. They warn that Tazers are not NON-lethal. If used improperly, they can be used to kill(as has been shown). They are however safer than other forms of disabling a suspect. Pepper spray has caused deaths as well(well actually mace). The spray has a very short range, and very high probability of not incapacitating the subject. When sprayed some have allergies which restrict breathing. When a tazer is used improperly it can kill. When used improperly, a car can kill. When used improperly, a night stick can kill(or properly, depending on your perspective). Heck even CPR when done improperly can kill an otherwise healthy person.

mimartin
11-18-2007, 02:25 PM
Accord to the Amnesty International's 2006 report: Most of those who died in custody were unarmed and were not posing a serious threat to police officers, members of the public, or themselves

Those who died were generally subjected to repeated or prolonged shocks

Use of the taser was often accompanied by the use of restraints and/or chemical incapacitate sprays

Many of those who died had underlying health problems, such as heart conditions or mental illness, or were under the influence of drugs

Most of those who died went into cardiac or respiratory arrest at the scene…

An increasing number of coroners have begun to register tasers as either the main cause of death or as a contributory factor. Although in most cases the cause of death is listed as "excited delirium", often as a result of cocaine intoxication, in 23 cases out of the 152 the medical examiner or coroner performing the autopsy has cited taser as a contributory factor.(10) In seven cases the autopsy has listed taser as a primary cause of death and has classified the death as a homicide.
Like I said, I am not against using the Taser. I just believe it should be treated like the weapon it is and used with care. Shocking a handcuffed person resisting passively is not what I would consider a necessary function of the Taser.
Mimartin, Tasers are not considered a "Not Dangerous" weapon. They're "Less Lethal." Which is quite true. A nightstick or a pistol shot is going to do a heck of a lot more damage than a taser shot. That is also the problem. The Taser is considered by most police department on par with a hard hand shot (whatever that is). I would say it should be considered “when used improperly” more lethal than the punch of the average police office, unless all police officer are on par with Bruce Lee.
You also need to consider how many people have been tasered in the United States. I don't have the numbers. So let's say it's...10000. That's probably extremely low. Painfully low, even. It could be 100 times as high as far as I know. Anyway, 270 deaths over 10000 incidents amounts to a 2.7% fatality rate. We don’t know how many times Tasers were used because most police departments do not require Taser use to be reported. If an officer punches someone he must file a report, but Taser someone and do nothing.
Also, keep in mind that no weapon that's designed to put somebody down is ever going to be completely safe. The TASER is the best Less Lethal weapon we have.I’ll agree when the person is posing a threat to the public, the officers or to themselves. This is actually my point, Tasers someone that does not pose a threat should be outlawed. Tasering someone that is passively disobeying the officer’s verbal command should not be permitted. Tasering an already restrained person should be punished. Repeatedly Tasering anyone is dangerous and should not be allowed.

Again, I'd say training officers to the proper use and strict reporting of each use would give us a better understanding of the Tasers danger. Then maybe an officer would not have to live with the knowledge that they were unnecessarily responsible for the death of someone they Tasered.

Rev7
11-18-2007, 10:21 PM
Show us some evidence or stop making unfounded statements.
Forgive me. I still need to do some more research on this subject too. Also, I know that this report was made a few years ago, but it still pertains to this subject.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/earlyshow/main648859.shtml

PoiuyWired
11-19-2007, 03:28 PM
That is exactly what tasers are meant for.

What else are they supposed to use? A nightstick?A gun? Their fists? Pepperspray?

(Yes I know what you are thinking, but using pepperspray means that you have to get pretty close to person you want to use it on. This is exactly my point.)

Well, a couple shocks is going to disable a target. Repeat shocking is not necessary.

And yes, you can followup with even less lethal forms like pepperspray after you give him the first jolt or two, or release the toe-eating beavers.

Rev7
11-19-2007, 10:00 PM
After watching the video, and reading the report, I do believe that the man who died was only shocked a 'couple' times. By 'couple' I mean two shocks.

About the pepperspray thing, if I were a cop that is what I would do, but with doing that you have to get pretty close up to the person for the spray to be effective, and in some situations that is just not a safe thing for the cop to do. You never know the true intentions of a person.