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View Full Version : The Movement to End The Penny


SilentScope001
12-11-2007, 10:45 AM
While many people focus on the evolution/creationism topic or the issue of abortion or the issue of god/"no god"...I care about more practical issues...like the loss of our beloved penny.

Forbes' Editoral Supporting a bill in 2002 that would 'end the penny':
http://www.forbes.com/2002/07/05/0705penny.html

Another Editoral Suggesting the End of the Penny:
http://www.dailynexus.com/article.php?a=11051

2003 Article on CNN about the Penny:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/01/pf/banking/pennies/

2006 Article by Businessweek: Time To Kill Off the Penny?
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/News/TimeToKillOffThePenny.aspx?GT1=8376

Retire the Penny (anti-Penny)
http://www.retirethepenny.org/

Americans for Common Cents (pro-Penny)
http://www.pennies.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_eliminate_the_penny_in_the_United_State s

This is a scary movemenet. On one hand, pennies are worthless. On the other hand, why abolish the penny? So it wastes money in the long term (you have to make the penny, you have to wrap the penny, you then have to fumble to actually get the penny). So what? It's the penny, a symbol of our natural hertiage to waste money.

Anyway, this is an issue of grave national importance, that will change the fate of the world and effect the lives of millions. We must do something!

mur'phon
12-11-2007, 10:57 AM
What's the big deal? we lost our øre ages ago, nothing bad folowed.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 11:03 AM
You can't really get rid of the penny. Without pennies, we no longer have a way to properly handle dollar fractions. Any time we need to get $5.53, we're hosed, and it will happen.

Ray Jones
12-11-2007, 11:03 AM
The internet has no nationality, so why bother us?

SilentScope001
12-11-2007, 11:14 AM
You can't really get rid of the penny. Without pennies, we no longer have a way to properly handle dollar fractions. Any time we need to get $5.53, we're hosed, and it will happen.

You can just round up to $5.55.

mimartin
12-11-2007, 11:25 AM
You can just round up to $5.55.
You could always round down to $5.50 too.

I just see this as another attempt by big business to stick it to the working man a few cents at a time. I would love to get rid of those $19.99 advertisment. Call it $20.00 already!

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 11:31 AM
Except that isn't the correct price.

MdKnightR
12-11-2007, 11:33 AM
You could always round down to $5.50 too.

I just see this as another attempt by big business to stick it to the working man a few cents at a time.

And big government. ;) Think of the tax increase of rounding up! http://intruderalert.com/cafe/images/emoticons/bang.gif

Dagobahn Eagle
12-11-2007, 11:46 AM
All that'll happen is that you'll have to round things off. No more, no less.

I just see this as another attempt by big business to stick it to the working man a few cents at a time. I would love to get rid of those $19.99 advertisment. Call it $20.00 already!Removing the penny won't change that. They'll still call it $19,99, but you'll have to pay $20. Visit a Norwegian story some day:p.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 12:42 PM
Right. That's the worst idea I've ever heard. Grocery tax around here is eight cents per dollar every dollar. Well, the proper rounding of that brings it up to ten cents per dollar. That's a horrible idea.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 01:32 PM
Get rid of the penny. It's tiny, it's gawdy, and I have reason to believe it's makers killed JFK.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 01:53 PM
I heard it was a Lone Gunman.

tk102
12-11-2007, 03:05 PM
Tangentially, what do you think of getting rid of all cash? Electronic payments or by check if paper is necessary. Seems Visa and Mastercard are pushing that with RFID cards. With no cash, you could subdivide the dollar into thousandths if you wanted to. :p

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 03:11 PM
Electronic money, I believe, would be bad. It's far too easy to manipulate funds. It happens quite a bit, already, with these newer Credit/Debit/Cash cards.

tk102
12-11-2007, 03:19 PM
Most money is electronic and not cash. Eliminating cash doesn't make it easier to manipulate electronic balances. Actually I would think even more security measures would be taken to prevent that if that became the sole means of payment.

On the upside, it'd put an end to counterfeiting.

But to confess, I don't like the idea much either though I can't find a reason that's not emotionally based. *hugs piggy bank*

mimartin
12-11-2007, 03:32 PM
Electronic money, I believe, would be bad. It's far too easy to manipulate funds.
Not to mention electronic money really sucks when the power goes down. There is no substitute for good for good old fashion currency when the lights go out. Like after a hurricane, earthquake, tornado ….

Web Rider
12-11-2007, 04:06 PM
Not to mention electronic money really sucks when the power goes down. There is no substitute for good for good old fashion currency when the lights go out. Like after a hurricane, earthquake, tornado ….

I would solve this with more places having battery backup, or private power generation, ie: Wal-Mart using it's roof for solar panels.

As for the penny, I'd only accept it is sales tax was done away with.

PoiuyWired
12-11-2007, 04:09 PM
That, and I really don't like the idea of my every purchase being recorded. I mean, there is no need to have a money trail of how many packs of ciggie I smoke, or how many rounds of beer I take at the local pub, amongst other things.

mimartin
12-11-2007, 04:18 PM
I would solve this with more places having battery backup, or private power generation, ie: Wal-Mart using it's roof for solar panels. Only if the Wal-Mart is still standing. A lot of transactions after a hurricane are between individuals and yes, a lot of it goes back to the barter system where no money changes hands. Trade the tarp for a gallon of gas kind of thing.

Plus from experience I can say when a hurricane meets solar panels there are no more solar panels. As to generators, in Texas during hurricane season we are using the juice to keep our beer cold and the A/C on and to heck with the rest of life’s niceties. Oh, and if it is football season we have to power the TV too.

Besides it is not just the power lines that are down. The phone lines don’t work either. Most the satellite dishes are in the next county too.

Rogue Nine
12-11-2007, 04:21 PM
I, for one, would not like it if they took away the penny. It would mean I'd have to pay more to have my opinions heard, and money is tight enough as it is!

That's just my $0.02 dammit! $0.05! This is horrible!










:joy:

Jeff
12-11-2007, 04:25 PM
I don't think they can get rid of cash all together. Money needs to be backed by something even if it is just paper bills like it is today.

As for the penny I don't see why they should get rid of it. Much harder to pay exact amounts or give exact change. Price levels are never going to be completely round numbers.

Dagobahn Eagle
12-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Taxes? Bank accounts can still very easily do single digit decimals such as $59.29 even if penny coins are gone. Do you pay your taxes, mortage, and so on in cash?

Grocery tax around here is eight cents per dollar every dollar. Well, the proper rounding of that brings it up to ten cents per dollar.Er, no. The total sum you pay is rounded off, not the tax. Two different things.

As for the penny I don't see why they should get rid of it. Much harder to pay exact amounts or give exact change. Again, it's not that hard to simply have numbers rounded off.

Oh, and from one of the sites:

Myth #1: Elimination of the penny would lead to higher prices.
This claim is based upon a flawed study that found a majority of prices would be rounded up rather than rounded down. This would be true if stores did not change pricing strategies (99 cents to 95 cents, for example), there were no sales tax (which randomizes the direction of rounding), and people did not purchase more than one item (which also randomizes the direction of rounding). If these factors are included then, on average, there will be no net change in prices.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 06:02 PM
What's the point in removing the penny, though? There really isn't one.

Web Rider
12-11-2007, 06:29 PM
What's the point in removing the penny, though? There really isn't one.

it would save the government money since it costs more to make a penny than a penny is worth due to the crazy price of copper these days.

Same goes for a nickel, which is why modern nickels are so much lighter than old ones, more aluminum.

Ctrl Alt Del
12-11-2007, 07:11 PM
Not to mention electronic money really sucks when the power goes down. There is no substitute for good for good old fashion currency when the lights go out. Like after a hurricane, earthquake, tornado ….

Just barter credit cards.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 07:17 PM
Most money is electronic and not cash. Eliminating cash doesn't make it easier to manipulate electronic balances. Actually I would think even more security measures would be taken to prevent that if that became the sole means of payment.
I mostly meant as far as public access. It'd be relatively easy for me to gain access to your funds via these new cards than it would to try and somehow gain access to your funds if you were using cash. Cash at least leaves the option to stay out of a system. This is in fact why many people prefer pay in cash as opposed to checks or electronic transfer of funds.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 07:29 PM
Well, I can understand changing the coin to make it cheaper to produce, but eliminating it seems like a bad idea.

Web Rider
12-11-2007, 07:56 PM
I mostly meant as far as public access. It'd be relatively easy for me to gain access to your funds via these new cards than it would to try and somehow gain access to your funds if you were using cash. Cash at least leaves the option to stay out of a system. This is in fact why many people prefer pay in cash as opposed to checks or electronic transfer of funds.

personally, I think cash cards should work something like a flash drive. You scan it at your bank, or any location that can give you money, and you put X dollars on it(after putting in all the passwords and whatnot), and then the card only has X dollars on it, and no more personal information than a debit card.

Actually, I like paying in cash because it gives me a greater connection to my money.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 08:09 PM
You can destroy someone's life just by getting their debit information.

Web Rider
12-11-2007, 08:22 PM
You can destroy someone's life just by getting their debit information.

And that hasn't stopped us from making debit cards now has it. The problem here is security, not the existance of plastic money.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 08:30 PM
And that hasn't stopped us from making debit cards now has it. The problem here is security, not the existance of plastic money.
I realize this, I was simply stating that we shouldn't make it our primary means of physical transfer of funds.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-11-2007, 09:50 PM
We should eliminate paper currency and start trading gold and silver bullion.

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 10:22 PM
I take it back. THAT'S the worst idea I've ever heard.

Hallucination
12-11-2007, 10:57 PM
We should eliminate paper currency and start trading beef and chicken bouillon cubes.


The last time I saw a penny being used it was being thrown by a kid in my English class down a girl's shirt. So, naturally, I think the penny should be kept for the lulz, but it's useless otherwise.

JoeDoe 2.0
12-11-2007, 10:58 PM
I vote for dollar-chips, and DIBS on the name

Tommycat
12-11-2007, 11:12 PM
Pennies are great when you go through a drive-through the day before payday. It can also be fun at the bank.

Me personally, I see the penny being like the gas pump prices. I mean has anyone just gotten 1 gallon for $2.899? No, they just use it to make it seem like a better deal. Its really $2.90. As for the actual coin, its useless as it cannot be used even in a vending machine(admittedly, I'm glad about this as I would hate to be the guy behind someone dropping 100 pennies into a coke machine and every third one dropping into the coin return only to find out he has 97 cents and not $1).

Corinthian
12-11-2007, 11:17 PM
Without pennies, though, I can't make an improvised weapon by filling a sock with them, though.

Tommycat
12-12-2007, 12:21 AM
Without pennies, though, I can't make an improvised weapon by filling a sock with them, though.
Dimes are better.... Though I guess 10 times more expensive....

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-12-2007, 02:21 AM
I take it back. THAT'S the worst idea I've ever heard.Pfft. Shows what you know about economics. The trading of gold and silver bullion is, in fact, a literal return to the gold standard.

True_Avery
12-12-2007, 03:06 AM
Well, I can understand changing the coin to make it cheaper to produce, but eliminating it seems like a bad idea.
What is the practical use for carrying -pennies- around in your pocket all day?

The only times I have ever seen pennies put to good use is when they are hurled at people or thrown into fountains.

When a clerk hands me pennies, I don't accept them or I put them into the tip jar to torture some other poor person. Wasted space in my pocket and a complete waste of materials. The penny no longer has practical use in everyday life, it costs more to make then it is worth, and the majority of them are probably sitting in the ground and in pickle jars. The majority of the transactions that make use of 1 unit of money is done digitally anyway, and I do not actually remember a time seeing someone pull out pennies to pay someone.

What's the point in removing the penny, though? There really isn't one.
Could you explain any reason why it should be kept outside of fountains, hitting people with them, and the satisfaction of finding one of billions laying on the streets?

We keep making them, but in the process the economy is losing money with each one made. It would be much easier to simply round everything in some manner and eliminate the 1 unit of money altogether, at least in coin form. The 1 cent could still exist digitally, and probably should, but the continued production of the penny damages our system.

1 cent over a large period of time can accumulate to a lot, especially for big business, and so it is still needed in our current system. But, that kind of transaction is mostly done digitally and not through coin.

And making it out of a cheaper material still seems like a waste. The new penny would still be found in masses outside stores on the ground. It would still be the most underused unit of currency in America. I don't know about you, but when I go out I have quarters and paper money for cash and rarely use any of the others. I downright refuse to carry pennies around because I simply never have to use them.

It would be sad to see it go, but we still have -billions- of them floating around America, unused. It could still be used, but lack of production would slowly cause it to disapear into trash and landfills as it does every year.

Web Rider
12-12-2007, 04:48 AM
What is the practical use for carrying -pennies- around in your pocket all day?

To which I ask the government, what is the practical use of carrying dollar coins around with you all day? That has yet to stop them from making 7 different molds in the last decade, with about 35+ to come(Presidential dollar series).

With all the dollars the average person carries(even if it's 5 or less), that gets pretty heavy and annoying real fast. At least pennies are lighter.

Darth InSidious
12-12-2007, 09:10 AM
It may look small to the guy on the street, but think about the larger scale. If you buy your stock at...oh, call it 90p/90c and sell at £0.94/$0.94, those 4p/4c really count. Eliminating the 1p/1c would destroy your small-to-mid businesses, and would have an impact on larger businesses.

Plus, of course, that your 5p/5c would probably take the place of it de facto, and prices would go up...

...This is all just theory based on zilch knowledge of economics, tho.

EDIT: Besides, doth not a penny outshine the unconquer'd sun?

Tommycat
12-12-2007, 08:56 PM
It may look small to the guy on the street, but think about the larger scale. If you buy your stock at...oh, call it 90p/90c and sell at £0.94/$0.94, those 4p/4c really count. Eliminating the 1p/1c would destroy your small-to-mid businesses, and would have an impact on larger businesses.

Plus, of course, that your 5p/5c would probably take the place of it de facto, and prices would go up...

...This is all just theory based on zilch knowledge of economics, tho.

EDIT: Besides, doth not a penny outshine the unconquer'd sun?
Actually stocks are traded in theoretical money. Stocks can raise 1/8 of a penny even though you can't find an eighth of a penny.