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Jediphile
12-11-2007, 01:41 PM
Much as I disagree with him, I can well understand Sephira's position.

Because the mods on these boards ARE hypocrites!

Twice now, I've posted to this topic since yesterday. And twice now my posts have been deleted.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=183256&page=3&pp=40

Now, I'll accept it the first time to some degree, since I (1) did not add to the discussion and (2) forgot to include a smiley as a carte blache to say whatever I please.

The reason behind this a post that Rogue Nine posted in the discussion of the Bioware/LA partnership in response to a heated debate between lukeiamyourdad and myself.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2386790&postcount=221

I both reported the post and PM'ed several mods/admins on it, since I found the comment about "nerd rage" to be inflamatory and condescending content.

However, as you can see, the post is still there, as the mods/admins told me that the smiley made it acceptable, while I maintained that it didn't matter, because the content of the post is flamebait whether a smiley appears or not. YMMV.

However, when I quote Rogue Nine for saying: "The amount of nerd rage in this thread is so thick. xD" in a different topic and then agree with it, after Rogue Nine's own heated debate with Sephira, my posts are simply deleted without comment. And while I accept it the first time for the reasons stated above, I do not the second, since (1) I did include a smiley and (2) I did make several comments that speak to the topic and are to the point.

Yet my post is still deleted. And sadly, I cannot say that I'm surprised.

The only good thing about is, that we now have proof positive of the hypocricy, double standards and bigotry of the mods/admins on these boards!!!

And so we have a class-based board with one set of rules for the mods/admins, and another for everyone else.

QED!

Now, the mods have the choice to either accept this and do something about it or else to ban me from these boards, thus proving my point. They have that choice, because I will allow none other and continue to repost this message to as many mods/admins and relevant topics as I feel is reasonable until something happens.

So if you read this and find that I stop posting, you will know what option they chose...

HYPOCRISY, THY NAME IS LUCASFORUMS MODS! :mad:

Jae Onasi
12-11-2007, 01:53 PM
Thank you for your input.

You are welcome on LF so long as you follow Forum rules (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=169078). If you don't feel you can comply with those rules, you probably shouldn't post. Trying to "force" us to comply with your vision of how things should be done by making threats of spamming threads with this is inappropriate. We discuss things in the moderator forum to come up with a consensus on how to handle difficult situations, and that doesn't always go the way an individual would like it to go. I assure you that your situations have engendered a great deal of discussion, and this situation will not be an exception.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 02:22 PM
I both reported the post and PM'ed several mods/admins on it, since I found the comment about "nerd rage" to be inflamatory and condescending content.
It's not our fault you're overly sensitive to something that is not an attack.

tk102
12-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Yet my post is still deleted. And sadly, I cannot say that I'm surprised.
The post was deleted to try reduce the amount of inflammatory posts in that thread. This feedback forum is where those types of posts should be placed.


Now, the mods have the choice to either accept [their hypocrisy] and do something about it

What exactly did you have in mind jediphile? What constitutes "doing something about it" to you?

As Jae mentioned we have had a number of private discussions about the matter. Contrary to popular belief, we are not a monolithic entity with one mind, but we do try to come to common ground in line with expectations laid out in the forum rules and guidelines. The reason we do this is to try to keep the peace in a consistent manner. One of the checks we have is this feedback forum where you and others are welcomed to critique us.

I will allow none other and continue to repost this message to as many mods/admins and relevant topics as I feel is reasonable until something happens.
This on the other hand, is exactly the wrong type of behavior. If you choose to engage in this activity, we will take appropriate action in line with the rules. As Jae intimated, you have been Warned.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 03:16 PM
It's not our fault you're overly sensitive to something that is not an attack.

Just inflamatory, eh?

And of course it's an attack. I will not be goated into letting you sidetrack the issue here by being angry, however.

This is not about being overly sensitive, so please stop trying to obscure the issue. If you dont' want to dicuss this, then you should probably take Jae's advice and not post.

This is about doing what Rogue Nine did and being deleted for it while he was not. Hence: Hypocrisy and double standard.

It's interesting that three of you have now posted to this topic without denying that.

The post was deleted to try reduce the amount of inflammatory posts in that thread. This feedback forum is where those types of posts should be placed.

What exactly did you have in mind jediphile? What constitutes "doing something about it" to you?

I expect the same rules to apply to me that apply to Rogue Nine when it comes to posting. The topic where he mentioned "nerd rage" was at least as inflamatory as the one I'm deleted from if not more so. Thus I find it difficult to accept that my posts are deleted, while his was not.

As Jae mentioned we have had a number of private discussions about the matter. Contrary to popular belief, we are not a monolithic entity with one mind, but we do try to come to common ground in line with expectations laid out in the forum rules and guidelines. The reason we do this is to try to keep the peace in a consistent manner. One of the checks we have is this feedback forum where you and others are welcomed to critique us.

This on the other hand, is exactly the wrong type of behavior. If you choose to engage in this activity, we will take appropriate action in line with the rules. As Jae intimated, you have been Warned.

Given the horrid standard of moderating I've experienced on these boards, I'm beyond the point where I care whether I'm banned or not. I've long since lost my trust in the mods on these fora for the reasons stated above and numerous times before.

That you resort to simply deleting my posts without even discussing the matter with me is simply below criticism, when I all I did was to do exactly what Rogue Nine did.

Heck, I didn't even do that, I just quoted him and then did not disagree with him.

In that, you are - of course - trapped by your own arguments of the past. After all, since Rogue Nine's comment was never deleted despite being reported as inflamatory several times, you can hardly fault me for doing the same or, as is the case here, less. So whether it's inflamatory or not is, at this point, quite moot, as you've already accepted posts like that, given that you allowed Niner's to stand despite being made aware of its inflamatory nature. And I take the fact that my posts were promptly deleted as confirmation of that fact. That was you people deleting my posts for inflamatory content, certainly not me. So it's impossible now to back up and say that Niner's post was not inflamatory. Either he was wrong, or you were wrong to delete my posts. It's really that black and white... QED.

Want to avoid stuff like this from me in the future?

1. Ban me from these boards. If you do, I'll naturally stop posting, and people will know what hypocritical bigots you people are.

2. Stop deleting my posts when I do not violate the guidelines you have yourself put down by example.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 03:22 PM
What's the point in denying this? That's like denying the existence of an all mighty llama, yeah it's not true but people should already know this.

I don't know what you're talking about, but clearly you have some irrational frustrations that cannot be resolved.

PS:Saying there are vast amounts of nerd rage is not inflammatory. It's a statement, one I see as being made in humor. If you don't have a sense of one, not our fault.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 03:27 PM
I don't know what you're talking about, but clearly you have some irrational frustrations that cannot be resolved.

Forgive my lack of humor, but are you being humorous here?

Because it seems difficult to me to see it as anything else, when you first admit to not understanding what I'm talking about, but then still feel confident to proceed to conclude that I have irritational frustrations that cannot be resolved. I don't understand how you can conclude that, when you admit to not understanding what I'm talking about.

PS:Saying there are vast amounts of nerd rage is not inflammatory. It's a statement, one I see as being made in humor. If you don't have a sense of one, not our fault.

If it's simply humorous, then why can't I say it too?

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 03:29 PM
If it's simply humorous, then why can't I say it too?
Because, humor rule #7: Never kill the joke.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 03:32 PM
Because, humor rule #7: Never kill the joke.

I merely quoted Niner. Thus I did nothing to change it.

Also: The forum rules do not specify the humor rule. Thus I cannot be in violation of the rules that apply here.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=169078

tk102
12-11-2007, 03:45 PM
You quoted Niner from a completely different thread in order to make your point and IMO to add to the flames. The post was off-topic and not constructive and therefore deleted. We do not have to ask your permission for this as it is clearly stated in the rules under spamming (5a).

The proper course of action is to use this forum for such feedback.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 04:00 PM
You quoted Niner from a completely different thread in order to make your point and IMO to add to the flames. The post was off-topic and not constructive and therefore deleted. We do not have to ask your permission for this as it is clearly stated in the rules under spamming (5a).

Wrong. The first post, perhaps, but the second was definitely on-topic, as I made several remarks Revan's power vs. Sidious'. Now, I cannot show you that, since you people deleted it, but if you find it, you'll see that was so.

Therefore the rule on spamming does not apply. If it did, then it applied just as much to Niner's post as it did to mine. Either we were both right, or we were both wrong. Yet my post was deleted while his was not.

Hence: Double standard. QED.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 04:15 PM
The world cannot always be so black and white.

Darth333
12-11-2007, 05:01 PM
I merely quoted Niner. Thus I did nothing to change it.
No you didn't changed the quote but the intent was completely different. I don't think your post was inflammatory for its content (everyone here is a nerd to some extent and several threads are affectecd by "nerd rage") but rather by the context. It is clear to me that it was made with the very specific intent of stirring up some s*** and get a chance to victimize yourself in public. This is exactly what you wanted when you made that post. Don't try to play innocent here. I had enough of that little game. Edit: To clarify, I am not only referring to the case at hand but to a whole situation that has existed since a while. Moreover, every time you are not happy with something, you do not hesitate to call us all sorts of names in your PMs (and as also appears from your post below), sometimes even before getting an answer and that, even if the moderators try to politely explain the situation to you.

As for the original post, we can't be in everyone's minds and delete all remarks that could be subjectively considered offensive by a reader as everything is potentially offensive to some degree. You are the only one who interpreted the post as offensive (other non mod members though it wasn't offensive either). Some people find the religion threads offensive but we won't start closing all the religion threads for that! It's the same principle. "Nerd" is regularly used towards others on the boards and it is hardly an insult when every user here is a "nerd" to some degree.


Because, humor rule #7: Never kill the joke.
Can't say better than that.

The Source
12-11-2007, 05:07 PM
Jediphile is not completely wrong. Sometimes the moderators are a bunch of wolves, and I agree that they need to be held accountable for their actions/intentions. Just my two cents.

Darth333 - A wolf is a wolf.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 05:54 PM
No you didn't changed the quote but the intent was completely different. I don't think your post was inflammatory for its content (everyone here is a nerd to some extent and several threads are affectecd by "nerd rage") but rather by the context. It is clear to me that it was made with the very specific intent of stirring up some s*** and get a chance to victimize yourself in public. This is exactly what you wanted when you made that post. Don't try to play innocent here. I have enough of that little game.

I do not try to play innocent, but the fact remains that I posted a comment just like Niner's and made on-topic comments just like him. Yet his post was permitted, while mine was deleted.

Why? How is that reasonable? How is my post against the rules when - as you say yourself - it was not inflamatory for its content? What, I'm not allowed to quote Niner and then agree with him?!?

As for the intent, he posted it to a heated debate where he felt it was appropriate. I did not agree, but the mods did, so I have little choice but to accept it. But when I then do the same to a similarly heated debate, my posts are deleted.

The little game I have had enough of is your attempt here to infer that my post was made in a heated debate where it was problematic, while Niner's was not. That is not true. The discussion between lukeiamyourdad and myself had certainly reached a point where several mods had stated that we should cool down. Was Niner's comment okay in that context? If so, then I fail to see how mine was any different.

True, it was against my better judgment in that I objected to Niner's post in the past. But I don't make the rules, and I merely followed the guidelines that you yourself set down by example, when you said Niner's post was okay. Apparently that was fair enough. Until I do it, that is. Hence we have bigotry, double standards and hypocrisy. QED.

If you're going to set down the rules like that, then isn't it fair that they apply equally to everyone? I don't agree that Niner's comment was okay, but then I'm not a moderator, and I don't make the rules. If that's the board you want, then fine, but I and every other poster must then be judged by the same rules. By allowing Niner's post and deleting mine, you are effectively judging him by a different standard than me. That's hypocrisy of the highest order. Why should any poster here tolerate that?

As for the original post, we can't be in everyone's minds and delete all remarks that could be subjectively considered offensive by a reader as everything is potentially offensive to some degree. You are the only one who interpreted the post as offensive. Some people find the religion threads offensive but we won't start closing all the religion threads for that! It's the same principle. "Nerd" is regularly used towards others on the boards and it is hardly an insult when every user here is a "nerd" to some degree.

Then why can't I repeat that?

Honestly, I find your blatant attempts to villify me rather than deal with the issue in extremely poor taste.

Sure, it's easier and certainly far more convenient to villify me than it is to resolve the matter. After all, you can just ban me and thereby dodge taking the fight among the moderators, but it doesn't change the fact that something stinks here.

My comment was made in exactly the same spirit and context that Niner's was. If you think that's a problem, then okay, but then apply the same standard to Niner, please. Your attempt to rather villify me is frankly below board. Sadly I cannot claim surprise. It's what I've come to expect here.

But it's okay, if you want that. If you insist on continuing the police-state, then at least have the decency to say so that I might seek political asylum elsewhere.

Jae Onasi
12-11-2007, 06:10 PM
All right folks, before this thread completely degenerates out of control, remember that the forum rules apply to this thread as they do others. Name-calling (hypocrites, wolves, etc.) is flaming, so don't name-call, and keep the sarcasm under control. Either post according to the rules, don't post, or experience the consequences of posting in a way that breaks the rules.

JediMasterJambi
12-11-2007, 06:12 PM
I have to agree to an extent.
My...*Cough* Brother *Cough* had quite a tango with the Moderators on this forum awhile back. He was bant for it. (RedHawke and Darth333 ^-^) He wasn't exaclty in the wrong either. Infact, he went straight to the head Mod and talked with him. ;)
But I have to disagree to an extent aswell. Sephira for example...
Darn yoU LS. Why aren't you on when i need your wisdom.

I'm in a debate on the LucasForms KOTOR Forum and this guy is telling me KOTOR Jedi > PT Jedi. He's a total moron but I need the interview in which GL says this about the Jedi.

If anyone has it, thanks a bunch.

Give me the link and i will literally tear that guy to ****s. I HATE kotor fanboys.

When ever you have problems with debates out of these forums just post us the links. We will handle it from here and if im not wrong lucas said the prime of the jedi thing in the TPM commentary

yeah post the link, i would like to see this.

Ok my username there is sephira. I am so going to enjoy ripping them apart. Support is welcomed. Darth sexy and Lightsnake, we need you too.
Sephira was merley on this forum to argue Palpatine being the stongest. That was his only reason for being here. Insitgation.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-461407-pt-prime-of-the-jedi.html
Thats the link to the KMC forum page were Nikkolas (Who was also bant from this forum...I think...) is rallying his little Palpatine fan-club to come over here and piss everyone off.
People like that deserve to be bant, IMHO. They wern't here because they were KOTOR fans. They were here because they wanted to come onto a KOTOR based fan forum and tell us that they didn't care what we thought, and that their idea was gods word. Thats why after my second post in the "Just how Powerful Was Revan" thread, I stopped posting there. Because I would have just been adding wood to the fire.

tk102
12-11-2007, 06:15 PM
Thanks for that insight JMJ.

Rogue Nine
12-11-2007, 06:22 PM
I do not try to play innocent, but the fact remains that I posted a comment just like Niner's and made on-topic comments just like him. Yet his post was permitted, while mine was deleted.
You initially posted a quotation of my post with no 'on-topic' commentary. This shows clear intent to spam and taunt, especially since you had an identical previous comment deleted that you were very well aware of. It was on that basis your second comment was deleted. You just edited in the on-topic material to cover your ass, when it was clear from the get-go that your intent was to spam and taunt. It was during the deletion process that you edited your posted (I am not responsible for the deletion, by the by).

As for the intent, he posted it to a heated debate where he felt it was appropriate. I did not agree, but the mods did, so I have little choice but to accept it.
For the record, you were the only person to take offense to my comment. LIAYD did not take offense to it at all, despite him obviously being referenced as a 'nerd', because he took it for what it was supposed to be: a joke.

But when I then do the same to a similarly heated debate, my posts are deleted.
You posted it in a completely different thread, for the express purpose of stirring up trouble. That is why your posts were deleted.

The little game I have had enough of is your attempt here to infer that my post was made in a heated debate where it was problematic, while Niner's was not. That is not true. The discussion between lukeiamyourdad and myself had certainly reached a point where several mods had stated that we should cool down. Was Niner's comment okay in that context? If so, then I fail to see how mine was any different.
See above.

By allowing Niner's post and deleting mine, you are effectively judging him by a different standard than me. That's hypocrisy of the highest order. Why should any poster here tolerate that?
Again, you posted that with specific intent to cause trouble. That is why it is not tolerated.

Then why can't I repeat that?
See above.

Honestly, I find your blatant attempts to villify me rather than deal with the issue in extremely poor taste.
You've done a far better job of villifying yourself than we could ever do.

Sure, it's easier and certainly far more convenient to villify me than it is to resolve the matter. After all, you can just ban me and thereby dodge taking the fight among the moderators, but it doesn't change the fact that something stinks here.
Whoever smelt it dealt it.*

My comment was made in exactly the same spirit and context that Niner's was.
No it was not. See above.

But it's okay, if you want that. If you insist on continuing the police-state, then at least have the decency to say so that I might seek political asylum elsewhere.
You are free to leave at any time. No one is keeping you here.





*This is a joke, it is meant to cause mirth. FYI.

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 06:51 PM
You initially posted a quotation of my post with no 'on-topic' commentary. This shows clear intent to spam and taunt, especially since you had an identical previous comment deleted that you were very well aware of. It was on that basis your second comment was deleted. You just edited in the on-topic material to cover your ass, when it was clear from the get-go that your intent was to spam and taunt. It was during the deletion process that you edited your posted (I am not responsible for the deletion, by the by).

I did not edit it. I posted a new post, where I did make on-topic comments. For example, Sephira concluded that Revan could never defeat Sidious because there were no circumstances that could allow it. I said that there are always circumstances in any fight, including shifting battlegrounds or - as happened - somebody betraying Sidious and stabbing him in the back.

Now, who are you to tell me that is not an appropriate on-topic comment to make?

If you answer that you're a moderator/administrator, then we're back to living in a caste-system on this forum, where the mods/admins are of a higher class than everyone else.

And even if you were right and I posted for the reasons you claim - and that is not an admission in my part - it still does not change the fact that I can make just the same claim about your "nerd rage" comment a while back. After all, I have no doubt that you also made that comment to condescend and then added - to use your own words - "some on-topic material to cover your ass". Why can you do that while I cannot? Don't presume to know my intent - only I can know my mind. If you get to interpret, then so do I.

For the record, you were the only person to take offense to my comment. LIAYD did not take offense to it at all, despite him obviously being referenced as a 'nerd', because he took it for what it was supposed to be: a joke.

So what does that mean? Does it mean that if I call you a D***head and can convince everyone else to accept that it is then okay to call you that?

I shouldn't think so.

But let me put it this way, looking back at it now and seeing what your comment caused, do you now feel that you helped or hindered the problems you saw back then? Does your answer make you part of the solution or part of the problem? Which would you rather be?

If I had felt the matter had been taken seriously back then rather being rediculed for being too sensitive, there would have been no problem now. Apparently I'm not the only sensitive person here, given that it is so problematic that I dared to quote something you said...

And naturally it will become increasingly difficult to see your "nerd rage" comment as the innocent joke you claim to be the more you and the other moderators protest now.

You posted it in a completely different thread, for the express purpose of stirring up trouble. That is why your posts were deleted.

That's your interpretation, not a fact. Besides, even if you were right, does that mean that my "on-topic material to cover my ass" must also be deleted? You admit that was on-topic. But it's still deleted, and you accept that. Even if you think I was trying to stir up trouble with the quote, that's a problem, especially for you as a mod, since you must set the example. Do you think you're off to a good start here?

And no, I did not post it to stir up trouble. I deny that completely. I did it to prove a point. It's too bad that you all took it hook, line and sinker rather than actually talk to me about it. But as I said, it's what I've come to expect. Mods here seem to like throwing their authority around rather than actually trying to solve the problems. That this matter was blatantly ignored in the first is the reason this topic now exists, so it would befit the mods not to claim innocence themselves.

Whoever smelt it dealt it.*

Methinks thou doth protest too strongly.

Furem fur cognoscit et lupum lupus.

EDIT:
You are free to leave at any time. No one is keeping you here.

Does that mean you admit to the police-state? If so, you have but to say it, and I shall must assuredly remove my sorry self from your illustrious presence.

Rogue Nine
12-11-2007, 07:22 PM
I did not edit it. I posted a new post, where I did make on-topic comments. For example, Sephira concluded that Revan could never defeat Sidious because there were no circumstances that could allow it. I said that there are always circumstances in any fight, including shifting battlegrounds or - as happened - somebody betraying Sidious and stabbing him in the back.
Wrong. You did edit it, and I have the logs to prove it. Please do not deny this and insult my intelligence.

And even if you were right and I posted for the reasons you claim - and that is not an admission in my part - it still does not change the fact that I can make just the same claim about your "nerd rage" comment a while back.
You can make all the claims you want. That does not mean that they are correct.

After all, I have no doubt that you also made that comment to condescend and then added - to use your own words - "some on-topic material to cover your ass". Why can you do that while I cannot? Don't presume to know my intent - only I can know my mind. If you get to interpret, then so do I.
Again, I made that comment in jest. If you cannot accept that, I am sorry, but that does not change the circumstances and mindset in which I made that post. The biggest part of your argument is based on the completely false assumption that I made that comment to seriously condescend and flame you and LIAYD. This is simply not the case. I know you'll probably not accept this, but then again, you seem to put very little stock in what others say.

So what does that mean? Does it mean that if I call you a D***head and can convince everyone else to accept that it is then okay to call you that?

I shouldn't think so.
I fail to see how 'd***head' matches in vulgarity to 'nerd'. One is clearly an insult not allowed on our PG-13 boards no matter what the context; the other is a term that many people here have used in self-reference and in reference to others, with no offense taken.

But let me put it this way, looking back at it now and seeing what your comment caused, do you now feel that you helped or hindered the problems you saw back then? Does your answer make you part of the solution or part of the problem? Which would you rather be?
My comment caused you to make a pariah of yourself based on your wrong interpretation of my message. I am sorry that you chose to do so, but in the end it was your choice to make based on your interpretation and I take no responsibility for that.

Apparently I'm not the only sensitive person here, given that it is so problematic that I dared to quote something you said...
In a thread where the staff was dealing with a completely different user with the intent to stir up trouble. You had no place to do that.

And naturally it will become increasingly difficult to see your "nerd rage" comment as the innocent joke you claim to be the more you and the other moderators protest now.
Again, your problem, not ours.

That's your interpretation, not a fact.
Right back 'atcha.

Besides, even if you were right, does that mean that my "on-topic material to cover my ass" must also be deleted? You admit that was on-topic. But it's still deleted, and you accept that.
As I stated before, the deletion process was already in motion by the time you edited your post with the on-topic content. I saw it, but was not able to stop the moderator doing the deletion in time. The moderator also removed it completely, instead of 'soft' deleting it. If it had been 'soft deleted', I can assure you it would have been back up there, sans the taunting comments that had originally comprised that post. My apologies for your loss.

And no, I did not post it to stir up trouble. I deny that completely. I did it to prove a point.
If you want to prove a point, there is a PM system with which you could have PMed a staff member about it. Your aversion to them is not a reason you may use to justify posting it in the open.

It's too bad that you all took it hook, line and sinker rather than actually talk to me about it.
Is this an admission of baiting?

Furem fur cognoscit et lupum lupus.
Sorry, don't speak Latin.

EDIT:

Does that mean you admit to the police-state? If so, you have but to say it, and I shall must assuredly remove my sorry self from your illustrious presence.
This forum and its moderators do not promote a 'police-state'. I'm sorry if you interpret it as such, but just because you do, that does not make it so.

Jeff
12-11-2007, 07:31 PM
Why can you do that while I cannot? Don't presume to know my intent - only I can know my mind. If you get to interpret, then so do I.Jediphile its our job to interpret the rules and apply them when we think they are being broken.
That this matter was blatantly ignored in the first is the reason this topic now exists, so it would befit the mods not to claim innocence themselves.It was never in issue in the first place to anyone except you. It is clear to everyone except you what the nerd rage comment was. You're making way too big of a deal out of this than it really is.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 07:49 PM
lupus.

http://www.boomspeed.com/insanesith/Itsnotlupus.jpg

JediMasterJambi
12-11-2007, 08:24 PM
On a Forum, people discuss their opinons with eachother, and naturally disagree with one another.

When people disagree with eachother, they become angry at one another. Thats human nature. Thats why Wars break out between people, and people are killed, homes are destroyed. etc.

However, the creator of the forum naturally knows this. So he assigned Moderators to control the forum in a way where the anger people feel at eachother when they disagree is reducded.

A Moderators job is to Moderate.
"control: lessen the intensity of; temper; hold in restraint; hold or keep within limits; "moderate your alcohol intake"; "hold your tongue"; "hold your temper"; "control your anger"
That is their job. To "control anger", to "lessen the intensity" of it on the forums.

Here is where the flaw is however, Moderators are also human.
They also feel anger, they also have their own opinons, they also disagree with people, blah, blah, blah.

Thus numerous flaws are extended from their. Playing Favs, Power Trips, Mini Mods, Mod Rage, etc. I'm not going into detail.

Its no ones fault that Mod's have flaws. Its human nature. People are flawed, and therfore, so are Mods.
At that one point I have to say that in my opinon, Jediphile should accept that fact.
However, from Phile's point of view here, despite their flaws, it was their job to remove the Joke/Tease statments from a heated debate. Whether or not it was found offensive by them. It was apprent that Phile found it offensive. And not only that, but its apprent this isn't the first time that the Mods here have been in the wrong.

Everyones at a wrong from one window or another. But pointing fingers dosen't solve it.
What does solve it, however, is this.
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rabbit20with20two20pancfg1.jpg

Jediphile
12-11-2007, 08:25 PM
Wrong. You did edit it, and I have the logs to prove it. Please do not deny this and insult my intelligence.

No, you're wrong. I might have edited the post, because I usually type pretty fast and then edit to correct spelling mistakes. But there was a first post that was deleted completely, and a second that was also deleted completely. Don't insult my intelligence by claiming otherwise. Bring you proof. I have no fear of it, since it can only be rope to hang yourself with.

EDIT: Besides, the rules here give me little choice but to edit, since I'm not allowed to doublepost. If you started by acknowledging that I respect the rules in this regard instead of immediately using it as a pretense to clobber me over the head, maybe we could make some progress here.

You can make all the claims you want. That does not mean that they are correct.

My point exactly. Which means you also get to make no claims as to me intents. The door swings both ways.

Again, I made that comment in jest. If you cannot accept that, I am sorry, but that does not change the circumstances and mindset in which I made that post. The biggest part of your argument is based on the completely false assumption that I made that comment to seriously condescend and flame you and LIAYD. This is simply not the case. I know you'll probably not accept this, but then again, you seem to put very little stock in what others say.

Given my response, I should think I've have surely proven the opposite.

And why exactly must I accept this on your part if you refuse to accept it for me? You made it in jest. Fine. So did I, when I quoted it. Why can't YOU accept that? I ask for the same standard to be applied to both posts. Why is that unacceptable? They are very similar. Either they both violate the rules, or neither does.

I fail to see how 'd***head' matches in vulgarity to 'nerd'. One is clearly an insult not allowed on our PG-13 boards no matter what the context; the other is a term that many people here have used in self-reference and in reference to others, with no offense taken.

Sophistry. The point you inferred that "nerd rage" was acceptable because I was to take offense. Isn't that enough?

Or let me ask it this way: How many people must find a term objectionable, before you delete the post? 2? 5? 10? 50?

Should we take a vote every time?

Or is it just a matter of whatever the heck the mods happen to feel like at the given time?

My comment caused you to make a pariah of yourself based on your wrong interpretation of my message. I am sorry that you chose to do so, but in the end it was your choice to make based on your interpretation and I take no responsibility for that.

Then why do you refuse to see me comment the same way? I didn't like the comment the first time, but everyone told me I was wrong, so I took it to heart and moved on. Now that's apparently wrong too...

I guess I just spoke above my caste, then...

In a thread where the staff was dealing with a completely different user with the intent to stir up trouble. You had no place to do that.

You did, so why can't I? It didn't violate the forum rules, after all.

Ah, because you're a mod? Well, double standard...


Again, your problem, not ours.

That remains to be seen. Indeed, the utter refusal of the mods to acknowledge the problem here is at the very heart of this topic. The continued denial to accept it as such just escalates the whole matter.

As I stated before, the deletion process was already in motion by the time you edited your post with the on-topic content. I saw it, but was not able to stop the moderator doing the deletion in time. The moderator also removed it completely, instead of 'soft' deleting it. If it had been 'soft deleted', I can assure you it would have been back up there, sans the taunting comments that had originally comprised that post. My apologies for your loss.

So the question remains:

1. Why do mods resort to blatantly delete my posts rather than edit them?

2. Why do they they refuse to talk or even inform me of the matter?

I will not have my posts deleted without reason. Make your case and I'll listen, though I can't promise I'll agree. But just trying to silenty kill me by quietly deleting my posts will only prompt me to fill my mailboxes with angry PMs and post topics like this one.

If you want to prove a point, there is a PM system with which you could have PMed a staff member about it. Your aversion to them is not a reason you may use to justify posting it in the open.

Ah, now you put your foot in it. You know full well that I posted to several PMs to both Darth333 and tk102 on this very matter.

In short, you're just plain wrong. I DID use the PM system. That especially Darth333 preferred to just ignore me is a big part of the problem here. And yes, those PMs can be produced to prove this.

Thus you're either ignorant or lying when you say I have an aversion to using PMs. If the former is the case, you'd have more credibility if you actually took the time to find out what you're talking about. Your position is totally baseless.

Is this an admission of baiting?

No. But I'll admit that I expected this to happen, even though it was fine for you to do. Clearly what you write is not nearly as important as who is writing...

This forum and its moderators do not promote a 'police-state'. I'm sorry if you interpret it as such, but just because you do, that does not make it so.

Actually, that was a yes/no question. Do you have an aversion to simply answering yes or no?

EDIT:

Its no ones fault that Mod's have flaws. Its human nature. People are flawed, and therfore, so are Mods.
At that one point I have to say that in my opinon, Jediphile should accept that fact.

Oh, I'm quite willing to do that.

It does require that people acknowledge their flaws first, however.

After all, if they will not be reasonable, when these things are pointed out to them, then why should I be? Why should anyone?

Jediphile its our job to interpret the rules and apply them when we think they are being broken.

What rules were broken? I did what Niner did. His posts were not deleted or revised. Nothing in the forum rules states that I cannot quote him in the way I did before I make on-topic comments.

I'll play by the rules, but they must be applied equally and to us all. It cannot be okay that Niner can make an comment about nerd rage and have that accepted, if I cannot then later quote it. That's double standard. It's actually quite plain.

El Sitherino
12-11-2007, 08:57 PM
it was their job to remove the Joke/Tease statments from a heated debate. Whether or not it was found offensive by them. It was apprent that Phile found it offensive.
Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed. But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.


I did what Niner did.
No you didn't, you quoted his post (in another thread) and did so in a taunting fashion. If this wasn't your intent, then you need to learn how to phrase things better. Your post was deleted because it clearly served no purpose, the on-topic discussion was easily seen as tacked on to make yourself appear innocent.

Emperor Devon
12-11-2007, 08:58 PM
I found the comment about "nerd rage" to be inflamatory and condescending content.

If you've not noticed, it's common practice here for people to call each other geeks/nerds/clinically insane. If you can't handle the everyday teasing that goes on you need to grow a thicker skin, but starting threads like this expecting people to change their behavior to accommodate you is childish and self-centered.

How many people must find a term objectionable, before you delete the post? 2? 5? 10? 50?

More than only you would be my first guess.

Given the horrid standard of moderating I've experienced on these boards, I'm beyond the point where I care whether I'm banned or not.

Why are you still here?

1. Ban me from these boards. If you do, I'll naturally stop posting, and people will know what hypocritical bigots you people are.

Double standards anyone? :rolleyes:

Seeing you hold yourself to the same standard you're insulting people for having amuses me.

They have that choice, because I will allow none other and continue to repost this message to as many mods/admins and relevant topics as I feel is reasonable until something happens.

Good grief, you can almost smell the pharisaism in these posts. Spam the forums until people do as you say? If you're that much a hypocrite I'm sorry to have wasted the minutes of my life it took to write this out.

I guess I just spoke above my caste, then...

Silence, Dalit!

Darth333
12-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Ah, now you put your foot in it. You know full well that I posted to several PMs to both Darth333 and tk102 on this very matter.

In short, you're just plain wrong. I DID use the PM system. That especially Darth333 preferred to just ignore me is a big part of the problem here. And yes, those PMs can be produced to prove this.I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting. Your response to my PM was to the effect that you had a very low opinion of me. Since I am so worthless in your opinion and even if I had prepared a very polite answer to your response, I didn't send it as I thought that it was pointless to even try to further discuss the situation with you based on what you wrote to me and what you had previously sent to other mods in the past. Next time you want a follow up on your PMs, lay off the personal insults.

Also, there's a whole difference between "nerd", "nazi" and "bigot". Feel free to discuss a decision with the mods if you wish but I will ask you to remain polite and to stop making gratuitous insults in your PMs and posts. Even if they did not necessarily agreed with you in the past, nowhere the mods have called you such names. There is no need to resort to that kind of language.


edit: if you are talking about the PM you sent me today, you had already posted the present thread ( which is a copy of what was in my mailbox ) when I saw the PM.

Rogue Nine
12-11-2007, 10:11 PM
You did, so why can't I? It didn't violate the forum rules, after all.

Ah, because you're a mod? Well, double standard...
In the original thread, I posted following tk's warning to everyone (you and LIAYD) to cool down. My post was intended to be on topic, with a bit of mirth thrown in in hopes that the two of you would take a step back and cool your jets. You obviously did not take see it that way, choosing instead to see it as an insult. You were told that it was a joke and that you should just leave it be. I imagine this did not sit well with you.

In light of these circumstances, it is hard to believe that you quoted my exact phrase with the intent of finding it funny. It's very clear to me that you intended to taunt me by doing so, given our past history and your obvious dislike of me.

But just trying to silenty kill me by quietly deleting my posts will only prompt me to fill my mailboxes with angry PMs and post topics like this one.
No one is trying to 'kill' you, only moderate your offending posts.

You may not believe this, but I think you to be a very erudite and well-spoken contributer to these forums; that is, when you're not going off on diatribes about how the mods are out to get you. If you would just contribute and not take everything so sensitively, I imagine we'd get along just fine.

Actually, that was a yes/no question. Do you have an aversion to simply answering yes or no?
No, it is not a police state and no I have no aversion to simply answering yes or no.

I had a whole big sentence by sentence refutation thing going, but I decided to cut out most of them, save for the most relevant ones I've left above. Jediphile, let me make this as clear as possible. As I said above, I believe you to be an intelligent and well-spoken contributer to the forums. You offer well-reasoned and insightful commentary to many different Star Wars topics. This is a very good thing. The other mods (RedHawke in particular, if you can believe it) can attest to my believing that.

Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you. I know this goes back further than even your involvement with me, as you've had a few tussles with the SWK staff before, over pretty much the same concepts. Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.

Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations. In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.

We can continue to go back and forth ad nauseam, but that wouldn't get us much of anything save for more anger and frustration and other unwanted nastiness. I'm more than willing to meet you halfway to put our argument to rest. Are you?*




*If you are, please consider extending the same courtesy to tk and D3 and the rest of the staff. Like I said, they are not all out to get you and I believe they would much rather have you around as a contributing member of our forums.

JoeDoe 2.0
12-11-2007, 11:57 PM
Well, just to drop my two cents in...

Jediphile : It's clear that what Rogue Nine said was a joke, I know that some of us can't stomach joke but come on he just said N E R D R A G E! Being a N E R D is not bad at all, it's just a word meant for people that know even the most intimate details about something, and it was meant without malice, so no harm done there, unless you interpret it VERY differently.

If you think you can no longer fit in here then maybe you should retreat to another forum as you yourself said, maybe take a break and come back.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-12-2007, 03:34 AM
This thread should be stickied and a copy placed in some sort of archive so that future generations my stand in awe of it.

JediMasterJambi
12-12-2007, 06:21 AM
Alright, alright. Let me pose a question to El Sitherino, Darth333, ED.

What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?
No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.
Jediphile would have been statisfied.
No one would have lost any face. (Because this is apprent that is what this is all about now.)
The comment was complained about, just 1 complaint or not. And look what has happened because no action was taken?
All this commotion was stirred up.
The 4 I mentioned above all believe the comment stated as a joke. And so what if it was? Jokes can be found VERY offensive at times. At certain times its also VERY inconsiderate, and inappropriate to make a joke.
Just because it was a joke dosen't mean everyone found it funny.
Consider your opinons not to be absolute.
Consider Jediphile actually took the joke as offensive.

Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed. But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.

Thats your mere opinon. Not fact. Nerd Rage -1? ;) I won't even point out the issue with that statement. Beside the fact that your a Moderator, and you should know better.



Nine, I like your stance on things here. The man is looking to settle the argument with compromise, not just add wood to the flames. I agree with the comment you made above 101%, full support.
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=happykittyzz3.jpg

Emperor Devon
12-12-2007, 07:06 AM
What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

Given his dislike of the staff, Jediphile would likely have found some other post to take issue with and demand the removal of. I think it was really a sooner or later occurrence.

No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.Jediphile would have been statisfied.

You know, this post of yours really offends me. It would make me satisfied if it was removed. I am going to scream and shout and stamp my feet until you remove it. I don't care that it's fairly normal for this thread, it offends ME and I want it GONE! It's not like deleting it will cause a big deal, so why not?

Point in case? It isn't your proviso to make me feel satisfied with your posts. If I don't like the content I can see if more people than me feel the same way (at which point it goes from me thinking my opinion should dictate how people act to a legitimate cause for concern the forums have), add you to my ignore list, or just suck it up and not demand you change your posting style to make me feel better. The same goes for these forums at large. They have no obligation to make anyone who posts here happy. If you like them you can stay, if you don't like them then you should leave. One person is not reason for dozens more to change their behaviors. Simple as that.

The comment was complained about, just 1 complaint or not. And look what has happened because no action was taken?

If a child throws an inordinate tantrum should you reward it with candy to make it be quiet?

Jokes can be found VERY offensive at times. At certain times its also VERY inconsiderate, and inappropriate to make a joke.

Nerd rage. Nerd rage. This is a Star Wars forum. You should expect nerd rage in excess and not throw a fit when it gets pointed out. If you take issue with such an unobtrusive comment, frankly you need to shape up or ship out - the forums as they are obviously aren't for you.

Consider your opinons not to be absolute.

Neither are yours. That the majority of posters in this thread disagree with them should make that all the more pertinent.

JediMasterJambi
12-12-2007, 07:31 AM
Given his dislike of the staff, Jediphile would likely have found some other post to take issue with and demand the removal of. I think it was really a sooner or later occurrence.
ED, please, your personal opinon shows here of what you think of JediPhile. And thus why you entered your 2 cents into the thread in the first place. Its obvious from that statement you don't like his attitude much.

Point in case? It isn't your proviso to make me feel satisfied with your posts. If I don't like the content I can see if more people than me feel the same way (at which point it goes from me thinking my opinion should dictate how people act to a legitimate cause for concern the forums have), add you to my ignore list, or just suck it up and not demand you change your posting style to make me feel better. The same goes for these forums at large. They have no obligation to make anyone who posts here happy. If you like them you can stay, if you don't like them then you should leave. One person is not reason for dozens more to change their behaviors. Simple as that.

Why? Why shouldn't I try to make you as satisfied as possible with my ideas and you vice-versa? I think more understanding in this world would be a good thing.
Very negative thinking there ED. Like it or leave, huh? I won't say anymore than that on your opinon there.
Really? My friend, look at the history of the entire world. One person can definatley be a reason for dozens more to change their behaviors.


If a child throws an inordinate tantrum should you reward it with candy to make it be quiet?
Why does a child throw a inordinate tantrum in the first place? Because its pissed off. Mabye it deserves some candy.


Neither are yours. That the majority of posters in this thread disagree with it should make that all the more pertinent.
Are you making an implication I SAID my opinon WAS fact? Because I didn't. I'm begining to think the majority of the posts in this thread are people who just plain dislike Jediphile's attitude, and are merley here to add wood to the flames in which to burn him.

Emperor Devon
12-12-2007, 08:13 AM
ED, please, your personal opinon shows here of what you think of JediPhile.

Don't make judgments based solely on the content of one thread. Normally I hold a great deal of respect for Jediphile; as Rogue Nine pointed out he can make some very contributive and interesting to read posts when he's in the mood. (Predicting in advance Avellone's intended origins of Nihilus is the first thing that comes to mind.) And that's also why I'm particularly disappointed at the content of this thread.

Why? Why shouldn't I try to make you as satisfied as possible with my ideas and you visa-versa?

Because I don't join forums like this with the intent of making people happy. I join them for my own satisfaction. If said mood can spread the same satisfaction to other people, that's all the better and I'm not unhappy for it; but I've joined this place so I can enjoy myself first and foremost. If that enjoyment comes at other people's expense that's what makes me a troll, but as it stands I have no reason to cater to the satisfaction of one person who has similar expectations from other people who simply want to enjoy themselves as I do.

(Damn, I should really go capitalist.)

Very negative thinking there ED. Like it or leave, huh?

More people prefer the forums as they currently are than as something different. So yeah, those look to be the only valid options. (I suppose there always is starting threads on how unfair it all is...)

One person can definatley be a reason for dozens more to change their behaviors.

As far as I'm aware Jediphile isn't trying to kick the British out of India or end discrimination in the South, though the best of luck to him if he is. Historical figures with integrity are impertinent to one person taking issues with a forum whose populace happens to disagree with his opinions.

Mabye it deserves some candy.

Not for holding itself to the same standard it's throwing a tantrum over other people having it doesn't.

Are you making an implication I SAID my opinon WAS fact?

Not if you're holding yourself to the same mindset you want of me.

I'm begining to think the majority of the posts in this thread are people who just plain dislike Jediphile's attitude,

You're right. They are.

tk102
12-12-2007, 11:33 AM
What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?
No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.
Jediphile would have been statisfied.

Just wanted to mention JMB, if you the information you had on Sephira was shared with us earlier, the situation that occurred in the Republic Newsfeed would have been resolved more cleanly and this thread would likely not have been started.

Edit: I should add that we appreciated getting the information, and upon re-reading of this, I can see the tone may have come across snippity which was not my intent.

The Source
12-12-2007, 11:47 AM
All right folks, before this thread completely degenerates out of control, remember that the forum rules apply to this thread as they do others. Name-calling (hypocrites, wolves, etc.) is flaming, so don't name-call, and keep the sarcasm under control. Either post according to the rules, don't post, or experience the consequences of posting in a way that breaks the rules.
Oh god! I called someone a wolf. When did moderators loose their thick skin? Its like the moderators have become either to dominating, or the 'rules' that LucasForums.com uses as a guideline does not apply to them, or they have become so wimpy that they have to jump onto every post.

What in the name of the Force has happened? I don't remember having these issues when Chainz, RedHawke, or T7 were around on a daily basis.

Its like the new generation, some older, of moderators have become sinicle. What is wrong with you people?

Look at this thread. Not a single moderator has come in to accept responsibility, or disagreed with the other moderators, or anything. Its like a cult.

When have you seen a thread where a moderater has done something wrong, and another moderater has come in to disagree? "PUBLICLY"

We need a self-esteem and moral shot.

TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon - What is your problem? People are getting into trouble because of posts that you have originally created. Grow some tolerance, show some responsibility, and grow up. Admit when you did something wrong, so we can get this place back to normality. You all have sins to resolve. Now is the time.

If we can admit our faults, the moderators can admit their faults.

Damit! LucasForums.com use to be a fun place. What the hell went wrong!?

Well, just to drop my two cents in...

Jediphile : ...unless you interpret it VERY differently.

If you think you can no longer fit in here then maybe you should retreat to another forum as you yourself said, maybe take a break and come back.
What! Everyone is welcomed here. He has a right to his perspective. Even though his perspective of the events are different than yours, that does not mean that his views are wrong.

Visitors should not be owning the problems that belong to the moderators.

tk102
12-12-2007, 12:23 PM
TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon...Admit when you did something wrongIf you're going to cite me for something, I'll need more to go on.

Thread split: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=184333

Darth333
12-12-2007, 12:33 PM
Alright, alright. Let me pose a question to El Sitherino, Darth333, ED.
What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

No one else found that post insulting. Even other members who posted in the thread (Sicne the posts were rather lenghty and off-topic they have been deleted to bring the Bioware/LA thread back on topic) agreed with that. Also, you may see only these posts about the "nerd rage" but there is history behind.

In short, while we have sometimes accomodated Jediphile in the past, it is never enough. Unfortunately, we can't start micro managing the boards according to everyone's whim and sensitivity. Not only it becomes awfully suggestive but if we do it for Jediphile we should do it for others as well and if we were to delete threads, posts and commment everytime someone feels offended, we would be deleting a lot of threads and posts (and likely all the religion threads as some people complain that they find them offensive). As I said above, everything is potentially offensive to someone. I don't count the times where people call each other "nerd" on these boards and it is a generally accepted practice by the community (it's a SW and gaming forum after all!).

That being said, if we think a request to delete or edit is justified according to the forum rules and not a simple whim, we will comply with it, and that applies to Jediphile just as everyone else. When the Source says "grow some tolerance" it should apply to everyone, not only to the staff.

Also, notwithstanding the above, we tend to be more collaborative when members make their requests in a civil manner instead of sending PMs full of insults (that would have earned a ban if they were made to any other non staff member but we went over that and took the time to answer politely) even before they make their requests (and I am not only talking about the current issue).

Finally, the mods are opened to compromise. We are all humans and can make mistakes sometimes, just as anyone else. In fact, we do discuss and review decisions regularly and reverse them when we deem it appropriate. When a member sends us a PM or reports a post, things are investigated and actions are taken when we deem that the forums rules have been broken. However, as mentioned above, we can't comply with every request and moderate the boards to please everyone.

Rogue Nine
12-12-2007, 12:41 PM
Oh god! I called someone a wolf. When did moderators loose their thick skin?
We have fur, thanks. Woof woof.

Look at this thread. Not a single moderator has come in to accept responsibility, or disagreed with the other moderators, or anything. Its like a cult.
We work out our disagreements in private. This thread deals with grievances a forum member has and as such, disagreements between moderators is immaterial to the discussion.

When have you seen a thread where a moderater has done something wrong, and another moderater has come in to disagree? "PUBLICLY"
See above. Again, I do not understand why you have cause to be concerned with what happens between moderators.

TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon - What is your problem? People are getting into trouble because of posts that you have originally created. Grow some tolerance, show some responsibility, and grow up. Admit when you did something wrong, so we can get this place back to normality. You all have sins to resolve. Now is the time.
Firstly, you misspelled my name yet again. Please realize my name is 'Rogue', coming from the X-wing series of comics and novels of the same name. It is not 'rouge', because that refers either to the French word for 'red' or the make-up product that women wear. I spell your name correctly, all I ask is for the same courtesy in return.

Secondly, I have offered to compromise with Jediphile. I have admitted that I am often blunt and sarcastic, traits I am not exactly proud of. I am doing this in order to promote peace, rather than let this go on ad nauseum.

Thirdly, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

Thanks for your input.

Darth InSidious
12-12-2007, 12:50 PM
I've been around the internet a few times, and been on both sides of moderation, inside and outside of heated debates.

What I'll say is that what favouritism/elitism there is here - and it's impossible to completely rip it out, mods/admins are human, after all - is, for the most part, pretty minimal. Most moderation is quick, effective, and fairly neutral here, and that is the most you can ask.

Just my tuppence ha'penny.

EDIT: I just thought I'd add that when the chips are eaten, it's just a forum. You have to emotionally detach yourself at some point. If someone sends you a snide PM trashing you, feel flattered that they wasted that much time on you. If your post is edited/deleted and you get a warning, and you feel you weren't out of line? Don't do it again. It doesn't matter what you thought- you weren't the one on the line who had to make that choice.

Marius Fett
12-12-2007, 01:45 PM
My thoughts exactly :)

DarthStrider
12-12-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm new here (so I apologise if I seem out of line) and I therefore can not take sides or pick and choose. I am a member of many forums and am also a moderator on another site.

This thread actually caught my attention. And honestly, I think some people are actually creating mountains out of mole hills. No one is perfect, absolutely no one. Everyone makes mistakes and most of the time, these mistakes can be corrected if the person takes the time.

I think it was very good of Rogue Nine to compromise. That takes a lot.

Moderators and Adminastrators have a very tough job (and I am not saying that just because I am a Moderator on a different forum, as in truth, I really do not have a lot to moderate) and often have very tough decisions to make. A lot of thought and debates go on to make sure all mods agree before performing a tough job. And I am sure the current situation doesnt come into consideration, but the members history with the site and other members.

And there's my bit. I once again apologise if you feel that I am out of line.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-12-2007, 03:39 PM
Oh god! I called someone a wolf.And to top it off, it wasn't even funny! Try not acting so SERIOUS BUSINESS all the ****ing time. Jesus.

What! Everyone is welcomed here.Internet != Candyland. It's just a big pool of hate.


And get Firefox so you can spell check your posts.

tk102
12-12-2007, 03:43 PM
Internet != Candyland. It's just a big pool of hate.Easy there jmac, we don't need to prove it.

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-12-2007, 03:52 PM
Easy there jmac, we don't need to prove it.It was QED'd in like 1996.

Jediphile
12-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed.

So what you're saying is that no matter what is posted, it will not be deleted unless at least two people complain about it first?

But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.

This is so bad logic that it's just begging to be pointed out. That people did not complain does not automatically mean that they were fine with it. It just means that they didn't complain. To infer otherwise is to invoke "the silent majority". Heck, I can do that too and claim that there are few people on these boards because they are all annoyed with the lousy moderating, but just can't be bothered to complain about it. You'll note I generally don't do that. I leave that to really bad politicians... ;)

DISCLAIMER: The latter does not mean that I'm a politician, but is just an attempt to disprove the idea that I have no sense of humor.

No you didn't, you quoted his post (in another thread) and did so in a taunting fashion. If this wasn't your intent, then you need to learn how to phrase things better. Your post was deleted because it clearly served no purpose, the on-topic discussion was easily seen as tacked on to make yourself appear innocent.

I deny that utterly. Since I quoted Niner, you can call my post only tauting if that was true of his as well. Both were stated during heated debates on the verge of flaming. If my post served to make matters worse in that situation, then surely so did Niner's. It's sad to watch how the mods insist on sticking together in order to cover up Niner's blunder here. Just the fact that my post was deleted underscores the problem quite well, and frankly it's somehow perversely amusing to see how the mods now backpedal to differentiate between two virtually identical situations.

But I'll bite. Since you just said that it would take more than one complaint for you to delete or revise Niner's post, let me ask it openly: How many complaints did you receive about my posts before you deleted them?

And, of course, even if I were to agree that quoting Niner is acceptable - which I don't - that still leaves the matter of what it was necessary to delete the entire post. Basically what you're saying here is that it was okay to delete the entire post, because YOU didn't think the rest of it was of a high enough quality. Sorry, but that is elistist in the extreme!

It's also utterly untruthful, since the mods scarecely go through all the posts here and delete all those that are not of "sufficiently high quality". Basically you're saying that the rest of what I wrote did not have a quality that warranted its existence on these boards. Excuse me, but how DARE you judge the content of on-topic material like that?!?

I mean, what if a new poster came to this board and said in his first post: "Hi, I'm new here, but I like KotOR, and I really hope they make KotOR3 and preferably soon, though I hope Bioware makes, because TSL sucked so bad, since all the Sith Lords were the worst in Star Wars history. Bye."

Now, does this post add anything constructive to the discussion? No. It's all been said before.

Is it inflamatory? Since it voices strong criticism of characters in TSL that other people care about, it could be.

Should therefore be deleted? No.

Yet by saying that what was in my post was "tacked on" and therefore fit for deletion, you're establishing a level of quality in posts here. That's elitist. Also, please point this rule out to me in the forum guidelines.


If you've not noticed, it's common practice here for people to call each other geeks/nerds/clinically insane. If you can't handle the everyday teasing that goes on you need to grow a thicker skin, but starting threads like this expecting people to change their behavior to accommodate you is childish and self-centered.

[snip]

Double standards anyone? :rolleyes:

Seeing you hold yourself to the same standard you're insulting people for having amuses me.

Okay, ED. Take a deep breath, please... Okay?

First, while I acknowledge that I very blunt here, I do believe it's relevant to point out the double standard here, and I would humbly ask that you look into the links I posted before judging solely on the bluntness of my comments here. Sadly that will be difficult, of course, since the allegedly offending posts are deleted and cannot be recovered :(

And yes, my comments are blunt. More blunt that I would like. So why is that? Sadly, it's because it is my experience that it is the only way the mods will even acknowledge my existence. While the mods say here and elsewhere that being reasonable and tolerant will yield better results, that has - unfortunately - not proven to be my experience on many occasions.

I frequently back down when people tell me that something I've pointed out is being considered by the mods, but here I find that's usually all that happens, and that if I leave it there, I'll have to wait until there are two thursdays in a week AND a cold day in Hell, if not longer...

If you find my approach childish, then I can't blame you, but how can you fault me when it works, while the alternative did not? Niner actually responded this time and considered the matter.

I too lament this. But if others will only be reasonable if I convince them that they must be because I'm so very unreasonable, then I'm left with little recourse. You're right that it's double standard, but can you blame me for following the examples of the mods? Sadly it was the only way to underscore my point, since nobody wanted to deal with it otherwise.

And since I do believe the standards of the moderation and the rules of the forum are relevant to discuss, I maintain that it was necessary to bring this to a point, where the mods had no choice but to resolve the matter.

I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting. Your response to my PM was to the effect that you had a very low opinion of me. Since I am so worthless in your opinion and even if I had prepared a very polite answer to your response, I didn't send it as I thought that it was pointless to even try to further discuss the situation with you based on what you wrote to me and what you had previously sent to other mods in the past. Next time you want a follow up on your PMs, lay off the personal insults.

What you conveniently neglect to mention here - referring to a PM not posted to the board and reffered to without my consent, I might add - is that that PM was an angry response to your decision to simply delete completely inoffensive a single post each by Ztalker and myself, where we wondered about what was permissible in response to Niner's now infamous "nerd rage" comment, which killed the discussion between liayd and myself. There was nothing offensive in those posts, and given that they were in response to mod's post about the level the discussion could be taken to, I don't think it can be considered to be unwarranted and fit for deletion. If we had continued, perhaps it had been relevant to step in, but we only posted one each and then stopped. Yet it was just deleted. If you act like a net-nazi, then don't be surprised if I make comments like your chosen name is fitting. That's humor, which I thought you liked, given that you had refused to do something about Niner's post.

Let me ask something in return. Is it permissible to mention things from PMs openly on the board, as you do here? Because it seems to me that I'm being deleted for quoting something Niner say on the board... And your intents here can hardly be called humorous IMHO.

When the Source says "grow some tolerance" it should apply to everyone, not only to the staff.

Interesting. Basically you're saying that the staff will "grow some tolerance" once everybody else has.

I see the other way around: Perhaps the rest of us would grow some tolerance if the staff did first by example. And that remains to be seen.

Finally, the mods are opened to compromise.

When? I have yet to see it yield ANY results. What Niner has said in this topic is actually the closest thing I've witnessed since I joined this forum. Others have appeared reasonable at times, yes, but has remained with only words of sympathy that disappeared quickly once those were called upon to be anything more...

However, as mentioned above, we can't comply with every request and moderate the boards to please everyone.

Indeed...

In the original thread, I posted following tk's warning to everyone (you and LIAYD) to cool down.

If LIAYD and myself were the only ones, then why bother? tk102 had already said something.

My post was intended to be on topic, with a bit of mirth thrown in in hopes that the two of you would take a step back and cool your jets. You obviously did not take see it that way, choosing instead to see it as an insult. You were told that it was a joke and that you should just leave it be. I imagine this did not sit well with you.

Obviously.

In light of these circumstances, it is hard to believe that you quoted my exact phrase with the intent of finding it funny. It's very clear to me that you intended to taunt me by doing so, given our past history and your obvious dislike of me.

No, I absolutely deny that. It's true that I did find your comment funny, but it's not true that I intended to taunt you or have obvious dislike of you.

At most you could accuse me of testing whether the comment was indeed as funny as the mods had claimed. I did not think so, so when I saw a similarly heated debate between especially yourself and another poster, I felt it wholly appropriate to quote the comment and then agree with it. After all, if it was just humor, then that would be okay, and if not, then would confirm my initial reaction to it. Since the mods did not like and repeatedly deleted my post, the latter would seem to be the case in the mods' eyes, despite their original claims to the contrary.

You may not believe this, but I think you to be a very erudite and well-spoken contributer to these forums; that is, when you're not going off on diatribes about how the mods are out to get you. If you would just contribute and not take everything so sensitively, I imagine we'd get along just fine.

Actually, I'm arrogant enough to believe that I have contributed constructively at times - http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=177894

And I dare to believe that even this topic can be constructive if we allow it to be.

Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you.

How many times am allowed to see the same pattern repeat itself before I'm allowed a conclusion? It becomes increasingly difficult to avoid as it continues to happen, you know.

Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.

Have you considered the possibility, just the possibility, that it could also be because I'm the only one who endures to take the confrontation rather than just give up and run away?

Much as I criticise the mods, that should suggest something positive to you.

Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations.

Thank you.

In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.

Please believe me when I say that I resort to "taking justice into my own hands" only because I see no other recourse. You think I enjoy being universally hated by the mods? I don't. But I frankly find fair and open discussion without fear of random deletion by the mods and with fair rules that are applied equally to everyone to be a more important issue than Star Wars.

That's the point here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who does watch the watchers? I'm frequently left with the impression that nobody does, and that the mods care more about basking in their own autority and prove their relative power by making snide remarks at posters and then get away with it because they're mods and think themselves above the rules. That's not a stab at you or anyone in particular, but it's what I've been wondering for some time, and that's a problem. I sense The Source voicing something similar (please forgive me if I'm mistaken), and it worries me. I visit a number of other of other boards and forums, and this is the only one where I have ever seen it to that degree. It's also the only board where people have called me overly sensitive. Food for thought?

tk102
12-12-2007, 04:55 PM
What you conveniently neglect to mention here[, Darth333,] - referring to a PM not posted to the board and reffered to without my consent, I might add... Is it permissible to mention things from PMs openly on the board, as you do here?
Jediphile, you were the one who brought it up the topic of PMs... and Darth333 even implied that she wasn't sure which one you were referring to with her edit... please review:
Ah, now you put your foot in it. You know full well that I posted to several PMs to both Darth333 and tk102 on this very matter.
In short, you're just plain wrong. I DID use the PM system. That especially Darth333 preferred to just ignore me is a big part of the problem here. And yes, those PMs can be produced to prove this.

I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting....
edit: if you are talking about the PM you sent me today, you had already posted the present thread ( which is a copy of what was in my mailbox ) when I saw the PM.
The vitriol described in a first contact like this cannot bode well for future relations and dooms any chance of constructively addressing the problem. :(


That's the point here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who does watch the watchers? I'm frequently left with the impression that nobody doesBut that's a recursive question Jediphile. Eventually you end up with the answer "nobody" or "everybody" or "God" or something equally nonconstructive.

I feel like this thread has stalled on rehashing old issues and confusing them with current ones. Would you like to make any further constructive criticisms or shall I close this thread?

Jae Onasi
12-12-2007, 05:14 PM
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Latine loqui coactus sum.

JediMasterJambi
12-12-2007, 05:19 PM
I think the whole point of this was that hes tired of the ALL issues with the current staff here, old or new.
An issue left unresolved is STILL an issue. So closing this thread will mostlikley result in another thread posted. If not now, then in the future.

Nine seems to have the best grasp of things as far as this argument goes. Compromise as a resolve would be nice. :P Instead of just BAM, close thread, or BAM, banhammer.

Edit: :P Im gonna barrow that little feature TK ^-^. And yes, that was quite snippity earilier. :D
My point, short and sweet was that EL Sitherino and ED seemed to be trying to shift all the blame solely upon Phile. I think the Mods have a bit of blame here aswell. I accepted my blame when I joined this thread with the intent of compromise. :P

El Sitherino
12-12-2007, 05:50 PM
Where do I have any blame in this? Explain to me.

Jediphile
12-12-2007, 07:03 PM
Jediphile, you were the one who brought it up the topic of PMs...

Actually, if I'm going to split hairs, it was Niner, when he said I did not use them.

But there is a difference between saying that PMs have been posted between people, as I did, and referring to specific things stated in them, as Darth333 did. I have not made references to the PMs between you and me, for example, even though I could use them in support of my position. Because to me those PMs are private and not for the board, unless both sides agree that they are.

The vitriol described in a first contact like this cannot bode well for future relations and dooms any chance of constructively addressing the problem. :(

In light of prompt deletion out of the blue, I felt it was an appropriate comment to make, given that I was to accept Niner's humor as well. But it would seem I'm not allowed to have a sense of humor. Or to mirror El Sitharino's position: Is it my fault if Darth333 did not see it that way? For someone claims that I insist on seeing things from the worst possible angle, she sure did little to promote the opposite herself...

But that's a recursive question Jediphile. Eventually you end up with the answer "nobody" or "everybody" or "God" or something equally nonconstructive.

What significant point can't you say that about? Sure it could go that way, but it's still important to ask those questions now and then, even if you can never get a definite answer.

I feel like this thread has stalled on rehashing old issues and confusing them with current ones. Would you like to make any further constructive criticisms or shall I close this thread?

If you do not believe in discussing these things, then go right ahead. In that case I'll have to conclude that discussions like this one are banned here and that the mods are above criticism and above the rules.

tk102
12-12-2007, 07:13 PM
If you do not believe in discussing these things, then go right ahead. In that case I'll have to conclude that discussions like this one are banned here and that the mods are above criticism and above the rules.

It's not that I don't believe these things should be discussed, but like any good meeting, it should determine what action items are necessary so that the meeting may conclude. Otherwise it the meeting continues ad nauseum. (couldn't resist the Latin bandwagon :p)

In parliamentary lingo, I'm calling for the previous question.

What, Jediphile, do you want? The post that got deleted is irrecoverable. If you wanted to vent your frustrations, you've done that. If you're looking for some other recompense, state it exactly and it will be considered.

Ray Jones
12-12-2007, 07:24 PM
I had a whole big sentence by sentence refutation thing going, but I decided to cut out most of them, save for the most relevant ones I've left above. Jediphile, let me make this as clear as possible. As I said above, I believe you to be an intelligent and well-spoken contributer to the forums. You offer well-reasoned and insightful commentary to many different Star Wars topics. This is a very good thing. The other mods (RedHawke in particular, if you can believe it) can attest to my believing that.

Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you. I know this goes back further than even your involvement with me, as you've had a few tussles with the SWK staff before, over pretty much the same concepts. Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.

Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations. In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.

We can continue to go back and forth ad nauseam, but that wouldn't get us much of anything save for more anger and frustration and other unwanted nastiness. I'm more than willing to meet you halfway to put our argument to rest. Are you?*




*If you are, please consider extending the same courtesy to tk and D3 and the rest of the staff. Like I said, they are not all out to get you and I believe they would much rather have you around as a contributing member of our forums.I swear, this man taught god to be all loving! <3




Who does watch the watchers?Hi. Name's Raymo, and to my left, jayston. We watch the moderators and administrators of LF.*







(*) The female ones at least, when they're naked, and under the shower, and they don't catch us, that is.

JasraLantill
12-12-2007, 07:49 PM
OMG, Ray! That was you?
http://9.echonetwork.net/Crap/Oh_Internet/2032988.gif

Web Rider
12-12-2007, 07:49 PM
You know, I've thought a lot about this issue too....and I have to admit it's the most entertaining thing I've read all day.

save maybe for that topic on how your parents told you "the facts of life."

Jediphile
12-12-2007, 08:03 PM
What, Jediphile, do you want? The post that got deleted is irrecoverable. If you wanted to vent your frustrations, you've done that. If you're looking for some other recompense, state it exactly and it will be considered.

I suppose I'm looking for some glimmer of the possibility that the mods might reevaluate their initial positions on matters like this one and not repeat those actions in the future.

For example, El Sitharino has bascially stated that it was fine to delete my entire post because he felt some of it was objectionable and the rest was too immaterial to be allowed even though it was on-topic. I have yet to see the mods actually say that deleted stuff just because they don't think it's constructive despite being on-topic is wrong.

Besides, it's scarcely as if there is much indication of progress here, which means we'll just be repeating this exercise in the future - if not with me, then with someone else. You seem open to consider this matter, and Niner certainly has with his recent comments. I don't know about Jae. But El Sitharino and Darth333 seem adamant that I'm just being willfully difficult and should go away or just stop talking altogether. I see little or no change there.

What I'd want is a restoration of my faith that events like this one will not occur again in the future.

Not deleting post with extreme prejudice would be a pretty good start. Actually taking complaints serious and do something about them instead of ignoring them in the hope that the problem can then be killed by silence would be another step. Talking to people when these things happen and actually listening to to what they say in return instead of dismissing them and hand down the verdict quickly from high like in a drumhead trial would also help.

Now, that's a conceit, of course, as there will always be issues like this one. But if the alternative is cynicism and rejection of any attempt at making progress, then the first option still seems better to me. Sometimes you just have to choose to be naive because the alternative is even worse.

Darth333
12-12-2007, 08:06 PM
Ac
But there is a difference between saying that PMs have been posted between people, as I did, and referring to specific things stated in them, as Darth333 did. I have not made references to the PMs between you and me, for example, even though I could use them in support of my position. Because to me those PMs are private and not for the board, unless both sides agree that they are. No, you did say that we did not responded to you. I rectified the facts and have not posted the contents of the PMs except for the fact that you have insulted me, hence the reason why I did not responded to you the second time. When you raise an issue like that, you implicitly open the door to such an answer.

In light of prompt deletion out of the blue, I felt it was an appropriate comment to make, given that I was to accept Niner's humor as well. But it would seem I'm not allowed to have a sense of humor. Or to mirror El Sitharino's position: Is it my fault if Darth333 did not see it that way? For someone claims that I insist on seeing things from the worst possible angle, she sure did little to promote the opposite herself... If you find humorous sending a vitriolic PM calling someone a nazi and telling them that you have a very low opinion of them (and that was not the first time) you really have a strange sense of humor... :rolleyes: Your PM was not humorous at all. Feel free to post our "correspondence" if you want (and don't forget the humorous title you gave it!).

We take complaints seriously when they are justified (remember that we did intervene in your favor too in the past). Unfortunately, we cannot moderate the boards according to everyone's whim (or should we add to the rules that people can call each other "nerd" except when it comes to some particular users?)

Edit: what RN said below.

Rogue Nine
12-12-2007, 08:10 PM
Compromise requires two sides, Jediphile. We can try and promise things like this will not happen, but that requires change on both our parts, since the status quo has clearly not worked. If we're willing to meet you halfway, what will you give us in return?

Jediphile
12-12-2007, 08:18 PM
No, you did say that we did not responded to you. I rectified the facts and have not posted the contents of the PMs except for the fact that you have insulted me, hence the reason why I did not responded to you the second time. When you raise such an issue, you implicitly open the door to such an answer.

Again, there is a difference between saying that corresponding has taken place and telling other people about what was said in that correspondence.

If you find humorous sending a vitriolic PM calling someone a nazi (and that was not the first time) you really have a strange sense of humor... :rolleyes:

I said "net-nazi", which you cannot take to be a stab at your political position, of which I know nothing. That is not the same as a nazi, despite your attempt to infer it, and while you may not like, your out-of-the-blue deletion of inoffensive posts without warning or provocation should be expected to result in a harsh response. You could have discussed the matter. Instead you chose to just delete stuff and then forget about it. What do you think that tells me about your respect for Ztalker or me?

Your PM was not humorous at all. Feel free to post our "correspondence" if you want (and don't forget the humorous title you gave it!).

I don't think "long live the dark side" is particularly insulting in light of the discussion. Besides, I did not do that on the open forum where you're rediculed in public. You could at least acknowledge that.

We take complaints seriously when they are justified (yes, we did intervene in your favor too in the past). Unfortunately, we cannot moderate the boards according to everyone's whim.

But you could apply the rules equally to everyone instead of applying in one way towards Niner and another towards me. "Equal under the law" is a fairly common principle in any most societies based on legal principles. I should like to think that goes for Lucasforums too, but I've seen little that supports that.

Darth333
12-12-2007, 08:31 PM
Again, there is a difference between saying that corresponding has taken place and telling other people about what was said in that correspondence.By referring to the said correspondence and telling that we did not respond, you have opened the door to that. I was in my right to defend myself from your allegations.

What do you think that tells me about your respect for Ztalker or me?

The only reason I deleted the posts (and I have already explained that to you and in the thread) is that you an him were engaged in a completely off-topic discussion. I did not gave any warning as I did not think a warning was warranted. I had nothing against you or Ztalker. I simply wanted to put the thread, which was an interesting thread btw (the announcement of an agreement between LA and Bioware), back on topic. Yet , you assumed that I did that with the sole purpose to piss you off. Instead of simply asking why I did not deleted RN's comment in your correspondence, you started to call me names and assume that we did that to oppress you. I tried to explain my decision but your reply was even worse...

"Equal under the law" is a fairly common principle in any most societies based on legal principles.First, this is not a state. It is a private corporation. Second, the problem is that you ask for special treatment.

Anyway, I won't be posting here anymore unless you have something new to say...the same arguments are coming back ad perpetuum and ad nauseam...

save maybe for that topic on how your parents told you "the facts of life."
Dammit I missed it! Where is it?

Jae Onasi
12-12-2007, 09:50 PM
I don't want to hear any allegations of mods not responding, because it's patently not true. I've responded to your reported posts, Jediphile, and all I've received in return were insulting emails or PMs from you when I explained politely why something wasn't done the way you wanted it done. Dealing with that has been extraordinarily frustrating. And yes, I have copies of our correspondence back and forth. You've been the topic of discussion in the mod forum, so we've seen correspondence between you and a number of mods. I'll be happy to post some as proof if you'd like a reminder, and as examples of your behavior to us and our forbearance to you.

mimartin
12-12-2007, 09:57 PM
I’m not a member of many forums (four actually) so I may be an n00b for asking, but how many forums would allow a thread like this?

My opinion is by just allowing this thread to exists and remain open this long proves to me that the moderators and the administrators’ fairness and open-mindedness more than any mere words could do.

Do they allow other moderators to get away with a few things the average user does not get away with? Probably, after all, they do know each other, they have a working relationship and they would give that person the benefit of the doubt to their remarks being an attempt a humor. After all, they are human and that is human nature.

I saw Rogue Nine’s comments and my personal opinion is that it was funny. Of course, that is a matter of taste. I also felt it lightened the mood, which that thread sorely needed at the time.

As to deleting post:
The staff reserves the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread or post for any reason deemed necessary. By posting here we accept that our post might be removed or altered. If we don’t maybe we should not post here. I am not saying you should not post Jediphile, I am saying you should be held to the same standard as the rest of us users.

tk102
12-12-2007, 10:03 PM
Not deleting post with extreme prejudice would be a pretty good start. Actually taking complaints serious and do something about them instead of ignoring them in the hope that the problem can then be killed by silence would be another step. Talking to people when these things happen and actually listening to to what they say in return instead of dismissing them and hand down the verdict quickly from high like in a drumhead trial would also help.

Okay. We'll work on that. Thanks for your feedback.