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jonathan7
12-16-2007, 06:43 PM
I am ever so slightly hacked off!...

For Christmas my parents had given me a brand new gaming laptop by rock; its awesome =) however the idiots at microsoft have somewhat crashed my party. Anyways as I'm giving my laptop to a friend I've been allowed it early to transfer things over and reload windows on my other laptop. Anyways I was setting the computer up, downloaded spybot and avg etc. Then decided I would register windows (its XP pro, I won't touch Vista for at least another 2 years as it will take afforementioned crethins at microsoft that long to iron out all the bugs). Anyways I tried activating it, and made 1 typo on the activation thing, it went away untill my next restart when I retryed and activated it. Now the next time I logged on it said I had to register Windows or it would not log in(depsite the fact I should have the 30day grace period for before having to activate it). So I registered again via the telephone method; now when I log on it says I have to activate windows, I say yes; it says windows is already active and logs me off...

Any ideas? I'm distinctly unamused, I only have windows for compatability reasons and no other; my preferance would be Linux and I'm definatly feeling compelled to install that now!

Jae Onasi
12-16-2007, 07:20 PM
Moving to General Tech thread--the tech gurus hang out here. :) Good luck with this problem--no fun for sure.

Ray Jones
12-17-2007, 04:39 AM
Like always, when having a Windows problem, do the following:

Reformat, reinstall, re-register, re, re, re, re.

Astrotoy7
12-17-2007, 11:22 AM
... and made 1 typo on the activation thing, it went away untill my next restart when I retryed and activated it.....

lolz... must be careful when typing in these things !

two options, call MS or do what Ray says. I dont know why you bothered trying to register it, activation and registration are separate things, and you dont sound like someone that need/want MS support that much :p

I guess this is the upshot of all those sneaky people using illegitimate copies - blame them !!

Ive been using Vista for a whiles now, and apart from not liking KOTOR/2, have had a bug free time :) lucky me !! \o/

sudo apt get prevent incorrect activation typo

mtfbwya

jonathan7
12-17-2007, 11:59 AM
lolz... must be careful when typing in these things !

two options, call MS or do what Ray says. I dont know why you bothered trying to register it, activation and registration are separate things, and you dont sound like someone that need/want MS support that much :p

I guess this is the upshot of all those sneaky people using illegitimate copies - blame them !!

Ive been using Vista for a whiles now, and apart from not liking KOTOR/2, have had a bug free time :) lucky me !! \o/

sudo apt get prevent incorrect activation typo

mtfbwya

Hey,

thanks for your help guys....

Well, I have full reinstalled windows now; and I have activated windows without any trouble so far (installed spybot first this time, so windows cant sneak anything into my registry without me knowing). Small problem is windows won't update apparently some .dll's it needs are missing, tryed the command prompts but that didn't fix things either; might try copying them across from my other laptop and see if that fixes things.

Astrotoy7
12-17-2007, 08:49 PM
glad youve sortve got it sorted... if you get your hands on SP3, wont that keep you covered as far as updates are concerned (save you downloading them all again)

I generally avoid the nondescript "security" updates - I think using ff and adware/spyware etc apps, and prudent net practises will keep you safe. the updates Im only ever interested in are DX9/drivers etc > most of which you dont need windows update service to keep you informed about.

Good luck ironing out those last bugs. Dont forget a good regcleaner, Im partial to ccleaner (http://www.ccleaner.com) meself :) tis free

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
12-18-2007, 12:10 PM
I generally avoid the nondescript "security" updatesI noticed a very interesting pattern with those updates. Since I have several virtual machines at work, and also a seldom used XP at home -- whenever one machine wasn't online (for security/patch checks) for 3-4 weeks the first thing Windows Update will come up with is a "Windows Installer fix for blahblahblab". And right after it was downloaded and installed, suddenly a whole bunch, sometimes like 20 or 30, of Windows updates is available. It's always like this.

Astrotoy7
12-18-2007, 12:42 PM
I noticed a very interesting pattern with those updates. Since I have several virtual machines at work, and also a seldom used XP at home -- whenever one machine wasn't online (for security/patch checks) for 3-4 weeks the first thing Windows Update will come up with is a "Windows Installer fix for blahblahblab". And right after it was downloaded and installed, suddenly a whole bunch, sometimes like 20 or 30, of Windows updates is available. It's always like this.

I think some updates only apply *after* youve updated something else..... lolz. I feel sorry for those who are made to feel paranoid enough that they have WU set to auto and just install reams of junk they dont need...

Surprising for me, since using ubuntu - it has its own annoying update service that needs to switched off !! I thought OSource is meant to be fun !! A fresh ubuntu GG install and it wants me to install 180MB of updates ! For a machine that doesnt do any high end gaming ...nu-uh !

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
12-18-2007, 03:29 PM
I think some updates only apply *after* youve updated something else..... lolz. Hey, I know that. But seriously -- *always* an MSI patch before all others, when machines which are online regularly (without installing updates) just get all the updates *without* that one?? Hm. Hm.


Surprising for me, since using ubuntu - it has its own annoying update service that needs to switched off !! I thought OSource is meant to be fun !! A fresh ubuntu GG install and it wants me to install 180MB of updates ! For a machine that doesnt do any high end gaming ...nu-uh !Even open source software introduces bugs and security holes, which have to be fixed, what has that to do with high end gaming?

jonathan7
12-18-2007, 08:36 PM
Hey, I know that. But seriously -- *always* an MSI patch before all others, when machines which are online regularly (without installing updates) just get all the updates *without* that one?? Hm. Hm.


Even open source software introduces bugs and security holes, which have to be fixed, what has that to do with high end gaming?

Whats Linux's Ubuntu like? My preferance would be to run it, but I have always been concerned over compatibility issues and the like.

Ray Jones
12-19-2007, 03:49 AM
Well that mainly depends on what kind of compatibility issues you are concerned about. Software, hardware, user? (:p)

However, I cannot really say 'cause I'm using Debian and LFS. But at the end of the day, one Linux is like the other, just different in shape and size.

Astrotoy7
12-19-2007, 05:54 AM
Hm. Hm.

Even open source software introduces bugs and security holes, which have to be fixed, what has that to do with high end gaming?

lolz...who knows! don't ask me about MS updates, I am not fond of, nor an expert on them :p

I think to manage the malady you describe, you should do what many are in the practise of doing - switch it off ! If theres something REALLY important floating about, you'll more than likely go looking for it rather than it osmosing onto your system through WU :p

as for ubuntu, Im not going to install a buttload of updates on a rig that is used for browsing and fiddling with beryl themes :p I only will waste bandwidth on directX/graphic/sound driver updates on a gaming rig of course, no point on linbox, because theres not much gaming to be done.

@jonathan - ubuntu is a pleasant linux experience for the uninitiated and curious - as I am/was/is. There are a lot of lovely things about it, and I think its a super option for students/schools for basic net/work functionality. I'm not sure what compatibility you refer to, so you'd really need to list/look into specifics.

Whilst I'm eager to recommend ubuntu in this capacity, to say it is for someone without some tech nouse/enthusiasm is a load of bollocks. Getting stuck doing some really basic stuff without a guiding hand isn't a pleasant experience. Then we you go look for help, it often may not be easy to follow. eg. Getting an external ntfs drive recognised on one ubuntu install was an ordeal that took me a couple of hours to sort. In my eyes, that is an absolute magical waste of time that a basic user shouldn't even have to think about, let alone endure.

But give it a go, overall a pleasant experience. People in the know are also saying positive thing about KDE4. I think its in RC2 now, but haven't been following it too closely.

good luck

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
12-19-2007, 09:08 AM
I think to manage the malady you describe, you should do what many are in the practise of doing - switch it off !But switching it off does by no mean solve that sort of thing Microsoft is doing here. I mean beside the fact that my company's policy is 'use that update service'. And since I am the admin, I'm am far from doing otherwise. ^^


If theres something REALLY important floating about, you'll more than likely go looking for it rather than it osmosing onto your system through WU :pIf there is something really important besides DirectX then the only way to get it from Microsoft is Windows Update.


as for ubuntu, Im not going to install a buttload of updates on a rig that is used for browsing and fiddling with beryl themessudo apt-get --purge remove beryl

Not installed. No update. Period.
(alternatively available via synaptic)

I only will waste bandwidth on directX/graphic/sound driver updates on a gaming rig of course, no point on linbox, because theres not much gaming to be done.You know, beryl and graphic drivers are two different things, and performance/power management-wise the idea of using up-to-date drivers doesn't seem all that bad. I mean trow your bandwidth away when it's permanently affected by one small "100" MiB download.


Whilst I'm eager to recommend ubuntu in this capacity, to say it is for someone without some tech nouse/enthusiasm is a load of bollocks.It is, however, for those able to look deeper and see there is more behind their Excel sheets and Word documents.


Getting stuck doing some really basic stuff without a guiding hand isn't a pleasant experience.It is, it seems, more pleasant when it happens in Windows?


Then we you go look for help, it often may not be easy to follow. eg. Getting an external ntfs drive recognised on one ubuntu install was an ordeal that took me a couple of hours to sort.Easy. Get help, here (google.com), here (ubuntuforums.org), or here (lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=691). :xp:


In my eyes, that is an absolute magical waste of time that a basic user shouldn't even have to think about, let alone endure.In my eyes, those who are not willing to learn at least some basics in computer internals, should not even bother and stick with some pre-chew proprietary OS and their update services.

Astrotoy7
12-19-2007, 10:45 AM
I mean beside the fact that my company's policy is 'use that update service'. And since I am the admin, I'm am far from doing otherwise

Unfortunately, Im a health worker, not an IT pro. I can never imagine to understand 15 lines of TW commands I cnpasted to remedy my problem meant!! And I seriously dont want to bother learning ! I'd rather learn Spanish , which is where I plan to live by the time Im 50, so I can be near beloved FCB (http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english) ;)

Anyway, If thats what you mean by 'basic' workings of a computer, then that is cutting off linux to a heck of alot of people. With their package managers and the like - I'd say a 'human' distro like ubuntu is looking to embrace users of the big2, not just tech wiz types.

In my eyes, those who are not willing to learn at least some basics in computer internals, should not even bother and stick with some pre-chew proprietary OS and their update services.

Those are some jaded, beady little eyes you have Ray!! If that's how you pitch using linux, I will be very surprised if you could convince any private or commercial user that its a great idea ;) What about the OLPC and the asus EEE etc shipping with ubuntu ??

Having had great go at two distros, (still DLing linux mint) I still think they're a great option in a certain context(ubuntu especially - which I still use).

I'm just glad I had some more patient guides than Ray(!), to make my ride easier. Cheers to sabrez and sithy for their help, never once did they say, even with my most basic queries "if youre not willing to learn how it works astro, dont bother !!" :p

Why did I bother ?? As part of my health promotion work, I am closely linked with the MRC(migrant resource centre) in our catchment area.

Although I'm far from an IT expert, my organsiation was happy for me to give them info about the OLPC and the asus EEE as they are looking at starting a computer learning class for their Sudanese/Somali TPV/refugee kids.

They've just had funding approved :) Its gonna be great - and all on ubuntu it looks like(which is what the EEE will ship with here) I myself wanted to learn a bit more about it so i could do a dual boot on some old pcs that were donated to them so they can all have a go before their EEEs arrive mid next year :)

The ''linux experiment'' on the kids pc at home ended up not panning out, as the last kid just moved out ! \o/ (free at last) !! As I multiboot into ubuntu now, its irrelevant anyway - I'm the blind mouse now :p

sudo apt get - see the bigger picture :D

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
12-19-2007, 11:37 AM
Anyway, If thats what you mean by 'basic' workings of a computer, then that is cutting off linux to a heck of alot of people. With their package managers and the like - I'd say a 'human' distro like ubuntu is looking to embrace users of the big2, not just tech wiz types.And rightly so. I don't want people to drive cars without that they have a clue about it, either. Those who want to use a computer should at least have an idea of what's going on, no matter what OS. That there is this Windows only world out there for those who do not chose actively is a complete different topic, but one reason why every "non tech wiz type of guy" is using Windows. No one talks about those who fail blatantly at using Windows. Why is that considered to be a Linux problem?


Those are some jaded, beady little eyes you have Ray!! If that's how you pitch using linux, I will be very surprised if you could convince any private or commercial user that its a great idea ;)No, that is not how I pitch Linux. I don't pitch it at all. However, convincing customers is pretty easy -- no licensing costs. Stable. Reliable. We don't necessarily push it for the desktops but our server business is 90% Linux based. And if there has to be a Windows server, then that one (ore more) is to 80% installed in a VMWare running on a Linux machine. Yes, basically, Linux sells itself. ;) :p


I'm just glad I had some more patient guides than Ray(!), to make my ride easier. Cheers to sabrez and sithy for their help, never once did they say, even with my most basic queries "if youre not willing to learn how it works astro, dont bother !!" :pHey now, that is not what I meant, because obviously you are willing to learn. I mean you're crying and screaming and kicking around that it's not your beloved Windows world, and that some things are plain different, but all that while you inevitably are one of us already (bwahaha). XD

I rather addressed that kind of user that doesn't even reads what the message on the screen says and just clicks the button which is nearest to the pointer. They don't even click always cancel or something. I mean for some people it's not Windows nor Linux which is the problem, but rather the computer itself. They don't understand, and probably won't ever because they simply don't want to. Those people *should not* be allowed to install any software regardless if Windows or Linux, let alone any OS. :)


sudo apt get - see the bigger picture :Dsudo apt-get install ;~~~~~~~~~~

Sabretooth
12-20-2007, 11:09 AM
They don't understand, and probably won't ever because they simply don't want to. Those people *should not* be allowed to install any software regardless if Windows or Linux, let alone any OS. :)
Computers are helping out people in a lot of ways today - and a majority of people don't know stuff about computers, which they have to use for business purposes. While learning how the system works is undoubtedly a good thing, you can't send them on 2-year boot camps to learn how their OS works only when they are going to do simple stuff like the internet and office work.

In that respect, Windows is excellent - it's easy to operate, has almost 100% compatibility and you know what I'm talking about. You don't need to learn all about how Windows works if you want to do the stuff I mentioned above. And since at least more than half of the world is not computer-friendly, they can adapt to Windows much better. Ubuntu wants to do just that, but I see them more than a little far off - and, well, Linux in general.

So what happens to the people who don't know and don't have the time to learn how computers work? Should they be barred from using computers? If that happens, you can imagine world productivity be halved.

Astrotoy7
12-20-2007, 11:42 AM
well said sabrez. PCs have increased communication and productivity exponentially. Its amazing that we are able to have this very discussion across three continents !!

Windows market penetration brought personal computing to the masses and is still the OS of choice for many, not because of its flaws but because of factors such as sabrez mentioned....ease of use etc. I think each OS has its flaws and weaknesses, but I will always opt for windows simply because of the gaming factor :)

@sabrez - thanks for putting me onto linux mint daryna !! Its even more PnP that ubuntu - and codecs built in out of the box >> been using it a day, and havent had one dreaded TW episode yet !! lolz

great stuff ;) Too bad I dont get all the 1s and 0s under the hood... :violin:

@Ray - its OK, I know some part of network admin training involves going bonkers, I havent met one sane NA yet. ;) All of them are crazy pirate types, waving their fists and grumbling at MS "arrgh!!" I guess if a good part of ones working life was spent dealing with problems MS products threw up, then its a natural progression to not like them much. My main experience with MS is playing NWN2, COD4 and FIFA08 - so thats why I cut them a bit more slack :D

mtfbwya

Ray Jones
12-20-2007, 12:16 PM
Computers are helping out people in a lot of ways today - and a majority of people don't know stuff about computers, which they have to use for business purposes. While learning how the system works is undoubtedly a good thing, you can't send them on 2-year boot camps to learn how their OS works only when they are going to do simple stuff like the internet and office work.Yes, that is correct. But when a user does simple stuff like Office or internet, it does not matter what OS lies beneath it, nor that the user should be bother with installing things or tweaking system settings or the like. I don't expect everybody to be tech savvy or so, but when someone uses Office he should at least know how to manage files properly. Some don't.


In that respect, Windows is excellent - it's easy to operate, has almost 100% compatibility and you know what I'm talking about. You don't need to learn all about how Windows works if you want to do the stuff I mentioned above.All I am saying is know what you do. When you're going to use nothing but Office, fine. Seriously, 'easy to operate' does not necessarily mean 'easy to manage/maintain'. Office only users without any further grasp of the system should simply not do anything else without proper knowledge or guidance.


And since at least more than half of the world is not computer-friendly, they can adapt to Windows much better. Ubuntu wants to do just that, but I see them more than a little far off - and, well, Linux in general.A properly set up system just works the way it should, regardless of the OS behind it. When you don't know how to setup/maintain your system, don't do it or at least don't do it without help.

I mean, everybody who has no grasp of how to repair a car calls someone who knows that kind of stuff.


So what happens to the people who don't know and don't have the time to learn how computers work? Should they be barred from using computers? If that happens, you can imagine world productivity be halved.Of course no one should be barred from using computers. And I am more than willing to offer a helpful hand for those who struggle or don't know what to do or whatever (and after all that's also my job).

But just because Windows enables any user to clutter it up until there is nothing left but some bloated crap snail system doesn't make Linux user-unfriendly or Windows especially user-friendly. And if Windows is so easy and manageable, why does this thread exist? Why can it be that a simple typo during the activation process forces the "average" user to perform a reinstall?


[edit]

PS: I am not saying Windows is bad, nor that it is unusable crap. I have not written any OS by myself or contributed to one, thus I am the last who could say so. And I *hate* people who are all anti Microsoft just because it's hip or they somehow managed to install Linux or for whatever catchphrase reasoning. The philosophies of Windows and Linux are different, and at the end of the day this is a good thing.

However, it is my opinion, that when you're going to use a computer you should know the things you gonna do. And in my book, double-clicking setup.exe *is not* knowing how to install software. When you don't know that you can save download somewhere else but the desktop it *is not* knowing the internet.

MJ-W4
12-20-2007, 12:34 PM
A properly set up system just works the way it should, regardless of the OS behind it. When you don't know how to setup/maintain your system, don't do it or at least don't do it without help.

<snip>

But just because Windows enables any user to clutter it up until there is nothing left but some bloated crap snail system doesn't make Linux user-unfriendly or Windows especially user-friendly. And if Windows is so easy and manageable, why does this thread exist? Why can it be that a simple typo during the activation process forces the "average" user to perform a reinstall?After my wife had managed to successfully (?) ruin the windows installation on her machine (net and office only) for the umpteenth time, I've set her up with OpenSuSE. End of headaches for both of us. My wife says she won't go back to windows because she feels more comfortable with linux now, and I don't have to waste precious time ironing out bugs on her machine on a daily basis anymore. :)

I agree with Ray that to the unsuspecting, non-computer-wise user, windows is just as user-unfriendly as any other system.

Sabretooth
12-21-2007, 01:33 AM
After my wife had managed to successfully (?) ruin the windows installation on her machine (net and office only) for the umpteenth time, I've set her up with OpenSuSE. End of headaches for both of us. My wife says she won't go back to windows because she feels more comfortable with linux now, and I don't have to waste precious time ironing out bugs on her machine on a daily basis anymore. :)

I agree with Ray that to the unsuspecting, non-computer-wise user, windows is just as user-unfriendly as any other system.
Thing is, that you set it up here. Many people don't have geeks like you and me to help them out. Linux is by far much tougher to set up than Windows. Except for Linux Mint, I've had to set up sound, Internet, graphics and fonts after installing Linux. And a lot of times that involves delving into the internet and consulting my past computer experiences. Average users won't know one thing of what to do. If I asked my sister to install Ubuntu, she would have no idea how she has to set the internet up, and would chase me with an oversized scissor.

Windows, on the other hand is instant. Install is super-easy, and apart from software installation - no other mumbo-jumbo is needed. Okay, you need to set up teh internet (and Ubuntu's controls were better, in that respect, IMO) but sound and video played perfectly instantaneously, fonts were beautifully readable and graphic drivers were a snap. Also, if I encounter a problem in Windows, it is typically known and Google helps me correct it (of course, considering that the problem is not hindering my display, internet and reading). Linux, on the other hand is much crazier when it comes to problem solving, and you know what I'm talking about.

(Maybe not pertaining to discussion, but whatever)

Astrotoy7
12-21-2007, 10:04 AM
lolz... lolz.... lolz... I think every person has their own take on this, which is great, and we have repeatedly tried to assert it - the purpose being.... I dunno..for the sake of saying it !! :p

lolz at MJ - setting up OpenSuSe makes you a nerd off the bat :) Im with sabrez, linux mint all the way (a minty flavoured ubuntu, for those curious)

mtfbwya

MJ-W4
12-21-2007, 12:06 PM
lolz at MJ - setting up OpenSuSe makes you a nerd off the bat :)More lolz - The reason I find Linux easy to deal with is simply that in the days before MS, you had to know unix. For me, all the jiggery-pokery and limitations that came with MS-DOS never quite took the biscuit. :)

As for SuSE: I ran into the guys from Germany on a unix/linux convention back in '99 and I always liked the way they helped linux get more public attention. (insert gecko smiley here)

I still side with Ray who gave the comparison between comp users and drivers. :dev7:

Astrotoy7
12-21-2007, 11:52 PM
More lolz - The reason I find Linux easy to deal with is simply that in the days before MS, you had to know unix.

that type of talk can only come from an IT pro ;) A convention in '99 !! I was still in uni handing in essays PenNPaper ;) I daresay some of our other friends here were still shooting spitballs at classmates and/or playing their N64s :D

as for those of us who use our pcs for *fun* , this is what we all had pre the windows explosion

http://amigainfo.boing.net/images/classic/amiga600.jpg

amiga FTWsomuchitsnotfunny ;)

mtfbwya

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-22-2007, 12:27 AM
lolz at MJ - setting up OpenSuSe makes you a nerd off the bat :) Im with sabrez, linux mint all the way (a minty flavoured ubuntu, for those curious)Personally, I found the OpenSuSE install to be easier than any Windows install. Enter in username(s) and passwords, maybe a hostname, and check which packages you want installed off the bat then just reboot.

OpenSuSE isn't Gentoo or BSD Astro :D

MJ-W4
12-22-2007, 05:20 AM
Astro: I didn't say I had no C64 or Amiga. :) Remember the Amiga brake switch to slow the thing down? (fond memories)

Personally, I found the OpenSuSE install to be easier than any Windows install. Enter in username(s) and passwords, maybe a hostname, and check which packages you want installed off the bat then just reboot.Ssshh, jmac, don't give it away! They're not going to believe us! :shads3:

Sabretooth
12-22-2007, 09:19 AM
Personally, I found the OpenSuSE install to be easier than any Windows install. Enter in username(s) and passwords, maybe a hostname, and check which packages you want installed off the bat then just reboot.

Ssshh, jmac, don't give it away! They're not going to believe us! :shads3:
*scratches stubble*

Astro, ye thinkin' what I be thinkin'? :D

*hurriedly stumbles across the internets*

Astrotoy7
12-22-2007, 10:05 AM
Personally, I found the OpenSuSE install to be easier than any Windows install. Enter in username(s) and passwords, maybe a hostname, and check which packages you want installed off the bat then just reboot.


taking out the security guff, I dont see how a windows install is any different. You'll get nagged for drivers and updates in both linux and windows anwyay.

bleh to both of them, you monkeys are making want a mac now just so I can get you all out of my precious little head :p

mtfbwya

Det. Bart Lasiter
12-22-2007, 10:13 AM
taking out the security guff, I dont see how a windows install is any different. You'll get nagged for drivers and updates in both linux and windows anwyay.Maybe. A lot of distros auto-detect hardware and install the drivers automatically. Also OpenSuSE's install screen is prettier :D

bleh to both of them, you monkeys are making want a mac now just so I can get you all out of my precious little head :pI heard MS voids your Vista license for that. Make sure to keep it on a separate network.

Astrotoy7
12-22-2007, 10:36 AM
Maybe. A lot of distros auto-detect hardware and install the drivers automatically. Also OpenSuSE's install screen is prettier :D

I heard MS voids your Vista license for that. Make sure to keep it on a separate network.

meh...WDDM drivers do the same for all the basic crap. From ubuntu, sabayon and linux mint, ive had to upgrade my nvidia drivers for the 8800GTS because otherwise on 2560x1600, the linux desktop folds on itself and makes this flickering pattern :p

You are obviously joking about the Vista stuff, my sister has a macbook and sometimes pops in and hops on my wireless network. In fact the networking proggie I use network magic (http://www.networkmagic.com) does a super job of making her mac talk and share very easily with my pcs, even printer sharing :D

mtfbwya