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SilentScope001
12-26-2007, 11:33 PM
Now, I am okay with mindless genocide. I hate gore, but that's another story...

But "reproduction"? I understand that many people like love, but, erm, some of us are religious people who are a tad upset with the "reproduction"-ization of culture and games.

It's also rather insulting. I want to save the galaxy. I don't want to sleep with a chick. Especially a chick who is designed solely so that I can sleep with her.

Now, before, I'm okay with having to sleep with so-and-so...off-screen. But now, games like Mass Effect are doing it on-screen, which very well offends me.

Honestly. But I am ranting and raving, and market forces overwhealm me. Still, moral decency should be at least taken into consideration, please? At least get some sort of scaleable rating for us to have: Love scenes of "reproduction"? Set it to XXX. Want to just have discussions of jazz and music instead of heading to the bedroom? Then set it to 'Tame'.

Jae Onasi
12-26-2007, 11:45 PM
Yep, I'm not all that excited about my young kids overhearing electronic moaning and groaning as a couple does the Wild Thang. At least give me the option to skip it or have a 'discretion' filter or something. I'm married--I don't need the pixelated version when I have the Real Deal at home.

Web Rider
12-26-2007, 11:47 PM
Games where the goal is to f-word somebody have been around for ages. Games adding reproduction is just a logical conclusion. I have never been fond of sex scenes in games and movies, especially when it felt like they weren't pertinent to the plot. And I don't much like the idea of characters in the game who are there JUST for you to have sex with, though I imagine if they're a prostitute like in GTA3 and up, that makes sense.

Lets take Fable 2 since it's suppsoed to include this. It makes sense. "birth control" was limited in the past, and your average fantasy universe is not set in a place with BC shots and morning after pills and condoms. And many games are now starting to include sex. Many movies, books, and a variety of other things have made sex relevant to the plot either in thought-out relationships or in having to seduce some bad guy or something.

Having a child come out of that is only logical given the setting of your average fantasy RPG. I agree that many scenes and styles in which copulation is done are tasteless and IMO, dumb, but I think it's a logical progression in games.

Games
Games with romance
Games with romance+sex
Games with romance+sex+pregnancy.

The problem I seem to think most people have with it is that the people playing the game are often not of the appropriate age group that should be playing the game. If scenes of sex and it's results bother you, it, IMO, raises more questions about you than the game.

Achilles
12-26-2007, 11:47 PM
*wonders why blood, gore, violence, shooting, stabbing, slicing, dicing, hacking, brawling, punching, kicking, biting is okay, but the natural act of sex is somehow offensive*

Why the double standard guys?

Jae Onasi
12-26-2007, 11:51 PM
It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).

jonathan7
12-26-2007, 11:52 PM
*wonders why blood, gore, violence, shooting, stabbing, slicing, dicing, hacking, brawling, punching, kicking, biting is okay, but the natural act of sex is somehow offensive*

Why the double standard guys?

Agreed; you were posting that my friend as I was typing the below...

I think violence content over sexual content is a far bigger problem. I must confess I've never understood the American film certificate bunch; you can kill masses of people in a film and they don't blink an eye; someone gets nude and its adult content? Surley nudity is far more natural than violence? I think we should protect kids from violence over nudity. Personally I choose not to do the whole sex thing in games, but I'm not fussed if theyre there for those that want them. A game like Mass Effect is designed for the 15+ age range anyway, so I'm personally not bothered if sex is in it; personally I won't do that, but I'm sure a few of my friends will.

Web Rider
12-26-2007, 11:55 PM
It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).

would not that be the "on/off" button on the TV/Game console? Not to be offensive, but you bought the game in which there is "mature content", should not it be your responsibility to protect your kids? Not some faceless corporation across the nation?

Achilles
12-26-2007, 11:57 PM
It doesn't particularly bother me--I just want the option to filter it to make it appropriate for our particular situation at home (which may vary depending on if the kids are awake or not). We filter violence when it's available (or filter it for our kids by not allowing them to play something overly violent or overly sexual).Could you please provide me with an example of a game that has high sex/low violence content (other than Leisure Suit Larry), so that I might have context for your argument?

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 12:04 AM
@Web Rider--That's why I'd like it to be an option to filter. Those who want it, fine, those who prefer not to, fine.

I play the M games (what few I have) after my kids go to bed or are at school. If they happen to get up in the middle of the night, however, I'd prefer they not see something entirely crass. That, and some of the M games have great stories and are a lot of fun to play (Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines comes to mind immediately), but I'd really have preferred to filter out the excess boobage/pasties, e.g. in Club Vesuvius. and would have done so if I'd had the option available to me, even if I did like VV.

@Achilles--why does it matter if there's high sex/low violence? I just prefer not to see people humping each other. I don't watch porn for that reason (aside from the moral issues). Whether there's violence in the game or not is irrelevant to whether there's sex in the game.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 12:08 AM
That's why I'd like it to be an option to filter. Those who want it, fine, those who prefer not to, fine.

I play the M games (what few I have) after my kids go to bed or are at school. If they happen to get up in the middle of the night, however, I'd prefer they not see something entirely crass. That, and some of the M games have great stories and are a lot of fun to play (Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines comes to mind immediately), but I'd really have preferred to filter out the excess boobage/pasties, e.g. in Club Vesuvius. and would have done so if I'd had the option available to me, even if I did like VV.

So you still believe it is the reponsibility of some corporation to do a wide variety of programming to make some random mom happy instead of your responsibility to NOT BUY games with that kind of content.

You chose to have children, and it is IMO, your responsibility to protect them, not the government's, not Rockstar or Sony or Nintendo.

Achilles
12-27-2007, 12:12 AM
So if you were up playing games late into the night and one of your children awoke and came in to find you playing KotOR (i.e. fighting dark jedi with a lightsaber while your other party members shot at them with blasters), would you have the same reservations?

Is there some fundamental difference between seeing VV is a corset and them walking in on you while you're changing (I'm assuming that you haven't gone so far as to teach them to feel shameful about their bodies)?

I think Jonathan7 captured it perfectly: what is wrong with us as a society that violence (even a small amount) is acceptable but sex is not? This question may be quasi-rhetorical, as I think I may already know the answer, but we can always fire up another religion thread if need be.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 12:12 AM
If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

Is there some fundamental difference between seeing VV is a corset and them walking in on you while you're changingYes there is a difference--I'm not trying to seduce my children if I happen to be in my bedroom with no clothes on and they walk in.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 12:14 AM
If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

Why should they? The point is not that they CAN, but why they SHOULD.

I don't even see why violence filters should exist at all. if you don't like violent games or don't want your kids to see violence, why are you interested in buying violent games?

Yes, they may have good plot, but if you are teaching your kids that "violence=bad!" then you are obviously not teaching them to differentiate between a video game and real violence.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 12:17 AM
@Web Rider--I can't _make_ them put a filter in--but it would be nice. Ultimately there will be some games, and probably some terrific ones, that I won't buy because of sex content that I might have considered if there were to be the option to filter it.

Achilles
12-27-2007, 12:17 AM
Yes there is a difference--I'm not trying to seduce my children if I happen to be in my bedroom with no clothes on and they walk in. So you think the video game is trying to seduce your children? I'm not understanding the argument.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 12:23 AM
@Web Rider--I can't _make_ them put a filter in--but it would be nice. Ultimately there will be some games, and probably some terrific ones, that I won't buy because of sex content that I might have considered if there were to be the option to filter it.

Of course, now, if you want to make your opinion known to the various game companies that if you make a "blackout" scene option like many games already have for copulation scenes or nude scenes, I have no qualms with that. But your assertion that you feel it's their responsibility to protect your kids is, IMO, wrong.

If you can make them feel like there is a big enough market that would buy their games if they had this option, I'm sure they'd do it, but frankly, most moms aren't playing possibly violent/sexual games and it isn't a concern for them.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 12:24 AM
Ugh--the replies are coming so fast it's hard to make sure someone hasn't posted in between when I'm replying to the post above....

Achilles--I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your 'not understanding', but whatever.

VV's all about seduction. Her club exists to sell sex. She's in her imaginary corset to sell imaginary sex to her imaginary visitors in Pixel-land. I want my kids to appreciate the human body for all its amazing things (including reproduction), not to see it as a crass tool for selling sex, as 'portrayed' by Club Vesuvius.

If they have a filter, great, if not, I won't buy some games, oh well.

@Web Rider--the industry doesn't owe me or my kids a darn thing. However, if they'd like to have the business of those of us who aren't into seeing gratuitous sex, then they might want to consider having/keeping the 'fade to black' option for those of us who prefer a little more discretion.

Corinthian
12-27-2007, 12:26 AM
I take it you never played Bloodlines, Achilles, or at least, never spoke with Velvet.

mimartin
12-27-2007, 12:28 AM
Now, before, I'm okay with having to sleep with so-and-so...off-screen. But now, games like Mass Effect are doing it on-screen, which very well offends me. You do know the romantic sub quest is optional in Mass Effect? I actually thought it was well done and tasteful, no worse than any PG13 movie. I don’t see the reason to put it into a game, I actually like the fade to black as seen in KOTOR and Jade Empire, but if that is what sells then who am I to judge as long as I have the option not to see it.

Still I’d rather see a blue alien butt then be able to rip someone head off. Actually, now that I’ve thought about it, I’d like a game where you could do both at the same time. :D

Achilles
12-27-2007, 12:31 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with your 'not understanding', but whatever. If your children walk into your room while you're playing Vampire and see VV, assuming that you don't have headphones on, they are at worst going to hear flirting. Not the groaning and grunting of copulation. They are going to see her clothed. Not naked. So what is the difference between them walking in and seeing a clothed woman with cleavage on a computer screen talking and them walking in on a fully-naked mommy getting dressed? Your statement was that you were not trying to seduce, which would seem to imply that the video game would be. Since video games don't try to seduce people (let alone children) the last time I checked, I don't understand the argument. I hope that helps.

The other part of this equation that I still don't have is how seeing VV in a corset compares to seeing Darth Sion getting mowed down by a lightsaber and two blasters on Korriban (for example).

I take it you never played Bloodlines, Achilles, or at least, never spoke with Velvet.I've played it many, many times. In the version I own, VV takes you upstairs to talk while wearing her clothes. I'm not sure what version you or Jae own, but by the sounds of things, it sounds as though I should be incredibly jealous.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 12:38 AM
Achilles--I was thinking more of the girl in the pasties and the other women in the club in g-strings doing the grind dance on top of guys, but VV's name sprang to mind first.

jonathan7
12-27-2007, 12:43 AM
I think Jonathan7 captured it perfectly: what is wrong with us as a society that violence (even a small amount) is acceptable but sex is not? This question may be quasi-rhetorical, as I think I may already know the answer, but we can always fire up another religion thread if need be.

Interestingly I have a theory that the apparent rise in sex killers/pedofiles etc, is the very strange relationship to violence and sex Western Culture has. See its fine to go around shooting people; but getting naked, thats a different matter!

So if you were up playing games late into the night and one of your children awoke and came in to find you playing KotOR (i.e. fighting dark jedi with a lightsaber while your other party members shot at them with blasters), would you have the same reservations?

This is in many respects exactly my point; I think people have become so de-sensitized to violence they don't even think about that; yet people have remained sensetive to sex. Its a very mixed message we send out to our kids really; its fine to run around killing people with a lightsaber, but getting naked... thats different.

If the filter was being forced on you, then I'd think you'd have a point. However, if the industry's willing to put a violence filter in the game, why not a sex filter?

I do on the other hand see Jae's point; ultimatly we play games to enjoy; a sex filter could be good for those who don't want to see such things, as it means they can customize their own gaming experiance.

Then there are games such as GTA which I personally won't play because of the content as it doesnt appeal to me; so because of that I avoid it; and I wouldnt play it and then complain about the content as I already know what Im going to get with it. Because of that I personally don't play such games but I won't kick up a fuss about the game as I don't think its my place, we enjoy different things and I have no problems with others playing them.

Achilles
12-27-2007, 12:43 AM
@Jae: Fair enough. So how does your children potentially seeing a nude woman on computer screen compare to the Darth Sion on Korriban fight that I used as an example earlier? Just as worrisome? Not nearly as worrisome? Much more worrisome? Does your moral indignation regarding the lack of filters extend as far as violence in games such as KotOR II:TSL?

I do on the other hand see Jae's point; ultimatly we play games to enjoy; a sex filter could be good for those who don't want to see such things, as it means they can customize their own gaming experiance. Mmm...I'd like to agree but I can't. Games come with ESRB ratings. You know ahead of time if there is violence or sexual content. I think it's reasonable for adults to be able to distinguish between T for Teen and AO for Adults Only all by themselves. If an adult has a problem with sexual content in games and only buys games that do not contain said sexual content, then that's their decision. I do think that it's impossible to ignore the hypocrisy of being against sexual content but being ok with violent content. If these adults were truly honest with themselves I think we'd see a lot more games like Tetris being made because the developers would be scrambling to keep up the demands of the market. My 2 cents.

jonathan7
12-27-2007, 12:59 AM
Mmm...I'd like to agree but I can't. Games come with ESRB ratings. You know ahead of time if there is violence or sexual content. I think it's reasonable for adults to be able to distinguish between T for Teen and AO for Adults Only all by themselves. If an adult has a problem with sexual content in games and only buys games that do not contain said sexual content, then that's their decision. I do think that it's impossible to ignore the hypocrisy of being against sexual content but being ok with violent content. If these adults were truly honest with themselves I think we'd see a lot more games like Tetris being made because the developers would be scrambling to keep up the demands of the market. My 2 cents.

Hehe, fair enough; personally I've never been bothered by sexual content in games (or films) if it fits in with the plot and has a point then fair enough. I must confess though the abligatory (sp) sex scenes in some films do annoy me as they can tend to detract from a film.

The strange relationship between sex and violence does to me remain a concern, whatever the merits of the rest of the conversation; consider this if you kill someone in a Star Wars game (especially if DS) but don't want to see naked people in a Star Wars game what are we teaching children, teenagers and ourselves?

Tommycat
12-27-2007, 01:08 AM
There's a good reason to add content filtering. Parents like games as well. Personally I would prefer if they would allow it, have content filtering on by default, and allow you to turn it off. Reason being, if a game is to be played on a console, then in order for me to play a game that has mature content, I have to ensure my children are not around for it. I include graphical violence in this as well. Granted my kids are getting to the point where they can see it, but when they were younger, I would have to be much more careful about it. The physical acts may or may not be enjoyable to watch, but when you're playing it on a 52" TV with Bose speakers announcing the whole act to the household, it would be preferable to have the fade to black scene skip available. For those that want to see the deed being done(and trust me, this scene is mild compared to what some people want to see), you can turn content filtering off.

Basically I'm saying give parents another option. This way the company gets more money rather than parents refusing to buy games. Adding a content filter can't cost more than the lost revenue.

Achilles
12-27-2007, 01:14 AM
*shrugs*

I just wait till my kids are asleep and use a really good pair of headphones. It seems that I don't need to other people cater to me in order to make what I consider to be responsible decisions. I'm perfectly willing to accept the possibility that I am in the minority on this one. Thanks for reading.

mimartin
12-27-2007, 01:29 AM
Basically I'm saying give parents another option. This way the company gets more money rather than parents refusing to buy games. Adding a content filter can't cost more than the lost revenue. You’ve already listed the solution in your comments. If you want filters, do not buy the games. The developers and the distributors will get the message if people refuse to purchase their product.

Personally, I do not see the problem. The games have ratings, the games list content, if parents do not want the content then they should not purchase the game. It is just like purchasing movies or having some cable networks in your home. If parents do not want their children playing or watching these games then it should be up to the parents to keep them away from the children’s hand and eyes. It is not these companies’ job or responsibility to raise our children. If parents find it offensive, then they should make a different purchase.

John Galt
12-27-2007, 01:36 AM
You’ve already listed the solution in your comments. If you want filters, do not buy the games. The developers and the distributors will get the message if people refuse to purchase their product.

Personally, I do not see the problem. The games have ratings, the games list content, if parents do not want the content then they should not purchase the game. It is just like purchasing movies or having some cable networks in your home. If parents do not want their children playing or watching these games then it should be up to the parents to keep them away from the children’s hand and eyes. It is not these companies’ job or responsibility to raise our children. If parents find it offensive, then they should make a different purchase.

There is no part of that post that I disagree with.

Tommycat
12-27-2007, 01:59 AM
Meh, my TV has content filtering. My DVD player has ratings blocking. I have filtering on my kids computers.

I'm not asking them to raise my kids, I can mess that up enough myself. All I'm asking for is the ability to choose how much content the game would show them should they get ahold of a game I bought for myself.

For me though this is almost a non-issue, because my kids are getting old enough, but I'm not so selfish as to only think of myself on this.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 02:43 AM
@Jae: Fair enough. So how does your children potentially seeing a nude woman on computer screen compare to the Darth Sion on Korriban fight that I used as an example earlier? Just as worrisome? Not nearly as worrisome? Much more worrisome? Does your moral indignation regarding the lack of filters extend as far as violence in games such as KotOR II:TSL?


The thread's about sex in games, not violence. How I feel about violence in games is irrelevant to how I feel about sex in games. They're different issues.

@mimartin--where can I find a rated T version of VtMB?

Achilles
12-27-2007, 02:48 AM
Well then you should have said so when I originally broached the issue in post #4 instead of waiting until you decided not to answer after post #23.



She addressed it in post #9.

And enough with the baiting comments.

~9

Achilles
12-27-2007, 03:23 AM
Whether there's violence in the game or not is irrelevant to whether there's sex in the game.I think it's quite relevant. In post #5 you alluded that it was an issue of appropriateness. I cannot understand how sexual content in a game can be labeled "inappropriate" without applying a similar standard for violence. You stated that you "filter" for "overt" violence and I am simply trying to get a feel for what that means.

I think the question regarding VV vs. Darth Sion is a fair one and I am very curious as to why there is so much protest behind offering an answer. It may be that your argument has a very sound justification that participants in this thread can benefit from, however we won't know if you don't answer. I hope you'll take this to heart and reconsider.

jonathan7
12-27-2007, 03:24 AM
I think it was probably my fault for going off topic (as I so often do) that put them (sex and violence) in a relationship.

Jae Onasi
12-27-2007, 09:59 AM
I think it was probably my fault for going off topic (as I so often do) that put them (sex and violence) in a relationship.

Others accomplished that all by themselves. ;)

Achilles, you're raising a strawman by equating violence with sex in games. They're not the same. That's why I'm not addressing it--I'd rather not bifurcate onto the violence in games subject.

Darth InSidious
12-27-2007, 10:02 AM
I think a bigger issue is that you would have to be a pretty sad case if you needed sex in a computer game...

...I would also like to point out that this is hardly a new phenomenon. There is, sadly, the genre known as "rape 'em up" out there....

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 10:06 AM
Others accomplished that all by themselves. ;)

Achilles, you're raising a strawman by equating violence with sex in games. They're not the same. That's why I'm not addressing it--I'd rather not bifurcate onto the violence in games subject.
But they're not entirely separate either. They're the two big issues today, and two big issues that have lasted for millennia, I don't know what kind of answer Achilles is looking for, but you have already touched on it when you stated that games you play have violent content filters.

I think a quick look at games would tell us that the more violent a game is, the less, discrete, the sex scenes becomes.

Emperor Devon
12-27-2007, 10:37 AM
Bah, why is it a given that sexuality/violence=bad?

In one module I played for Neverwinter Nights, the game starts with your (female) character getting raped by a street thug after her family is butchered by the people he rescues her from. Violence against women is a common theme in it, and practically half the characters in the module are out to grab at your PC's skirt (well... chainmail armor... skirts don't give a very high AC bonus. But either way it's the side effects of 14+ Charisma). There's even an option to become a whore, but you don't get any experience points or earn much gold (the most you can get is 30 per sailor, and even that takes a lot of persuading) so I didn't bother with it. Your character can even get pregnant by having a fling with the rapist later, (apparently there's a miscarriage though) but I chose to opt for more experience points by running a rapier through his brain. C'mon c'mon magic level 20!

Point in case, it can add atmosphere. Nothing illustrates the bloody postwar aftermath of a conquered medieval city like showing women getting raped and mass state-sanctioned killings. The unsubtle use of profanity (you hear f***, c***, and s***every other sentence) and constant filthy jokes/references also added a lot of atmosphere. The module tried to be filthy and gritty and it succeeded by being exactly that; filthy and gritty. I loved every minute of it.

From my general experience with games, romances tend to be optional things. If you don't want to see anything that could be sexual, don't initiate the romantic dialogue. If the game tries to force that sort of thing on you and you don't like it... well, isn't that a fair sign the game obviously isn't for you? And honestly, it's just a pair of ta-tas. Really, grow up. 45% of the world's population has them even if they're usually covered.

Bah. I tire of political correctness and censorship. We need more games with overt filthiness and violence like that A Dance With Rogues module for NWN. I'd buy 'em.

(PS: It's against forum rules to post links to something so filthy, but PM if you want a link to the NWN module. It's a lot of fun. And yes, it has an actual plot and characters that mesh with all the violence.)

Darth InSidious
12-27-2007, 10:50 AM
medieval city
You'd know, would you?

:p

mimartin
12-27-2007, 11:35 AM
Meh, my TV has content filtering. My DVD player has ratings blocking. I have filtering on my kids computers. Oh and how successful are these filters? The ones on my TV, Satellite Box and DVD player are 4 to 6 digits. My grandfather had a padlock on the cabinet in his shop where he kept the Playboys when I was a child. The combination was 12-07-41, the reason he join the military. My eleven year old cousin told me the code for his parents’ television when the rating blocker was preventing me from watching an unrated sports program. Children are a lot smarter and more observant than their parents give them credit for. The only safe and fool proof way to keep the children from playing or seeing the material is not to purchase it in the first place.

For me though this is almost a non-issue, because my kids are getting old enough, but I'm not so selfish as to only think of myself on this. So it is a selfless act to ask non-parents to share in the increase cost of adding content filters?
@mimartin--where can I find a rated T version of VtMB?I don’t believe that is the demographic this game was developed for. From the description, I believe this is a game I’d choice not to play as I might find some of it offensive. So I will now use my old fashion, manual, foolproof, cost efficient content filter and refuse to purchase this product. ;)

SilentScope001
12-27-2007, 12:00 PM
1) To be honest, I would likely pay more for a content filter. I mean, not like $500 more, but a small fee increase, I'll live with that.

2) Judging from the fact that some people are confused about reproduction including the birth of babies, I was using it as a euphisum for SEX. Okay? You like sex in games, okay, fine. But what about me?

3) Yes, I don't buy games that have sex...or if I buy a game that has sex, I go and avoid that sex content. That being said, I would rather have a content filter, so that I can avoid the parts I hate (sex), and head onto the good stuff, you know, playing the game. :)

4) Many of us are fine with violence, because, let be honest, most games do in fact deal with violence (I don't like gore, but again, another topic). So, let move on to the topic of reproduction on games...please?

5) Yes, I am struggling against market forces. That doesn't mean it's wrong to vent.

Lance Monance
12-27-2007, 12:37 PM
Well I think it is pretty obvious that filters and options to adjust just about everything would be perfect. Everyone could change the game to whatever suits that person best.

Ask the industry why it isn't done. If you would like developers to include such options, vote with your wallet next time they release a game that does not satisfy you. If a significant part of the target audience feels the same way, you'll likely see a change. If not, you have 3 options:
1.) Dont purchase the game
2.) Avoid content you don't like while playing the game
3.) Use mods to adjust the game to your liking

On a side note, if games are made for adults only, any content filters (censorship) should be turned off by default. After all the game is targeted at adults.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 01:09 PM
1) To be honest, I would likely pay more for a content filter. I mean, not like $500 more, but a small fee increase, I'll live with that.
With your average game pushing the $60 mark, if they decide to include one in a game and raise the price because of it, I'll be LESS likly to buy the game.

2) Judging from the fact that some people are confused about reproduction including the birth of babies, I was using it as a euphisum for SEX. Okay? You like sex in games, okay, fine. But what about me?
From our various debates in other threads and my high-school bio class, I seem to recall that sex leads to baby production. Personally, I think sex without that possibility is worse than sex with(in terms of game quality). It makes sex more hollow IMO.

4) Many of us are fine with violence, because, let be honest, most games do in fact deal with violence (I don't like gore, but again, another topic). So, let move on to the topic of reproduction on games...please?
the word you are searching for, is "copulation", the act of f-ing one another. "reproduction" is the act of making babies. The latter utilizes the former to work of course. But sex without reproduction is copulation.

5) Yes, I am struggling against market forces. That doesn't mean it's wrong to vent.
No, but you're more likly to get agreement with saying that "tasteless sex scenes are bad" than "all sex=evil, ban ban!"

mimartin
12-27-2007, 01:22 PM
Question: Most filters currently in use are included by the manufacture of the system not the product itself. (Example: the DVD does not have the filter on it, but the DVD player does have the filter built into it). This would work for console games as Xbox 360 or PS3 could be built to include a filter. How would this work with a computer? Are you all advocating that the filter be built into the game itself? Then why not require DVDs, Television programs, Music CDs… to do the same? You know some bad person (such as myself) may not activate the filter on their TV or DVD player and may actually be subject to the offensive material they just purchased knowingly.

Oh, and you don’t want to get me started with Art Galleries. We must apply filters to all nude artworks.

Does the artist own intention have any baring here?

If I design a game that includes sex as a plot device should I have some say into if the scene can be skipped or not. If as a writer, I feel it is important to show the emotions between the PC and NPC then why would I allow it to be skipped? Some games actually attempt to tell a story after all. Skipping a chapter of a book is usually not the best way to enjoy or understand the authors work, could it possibly be the same with games.
No, but you're more likely to get agreement with saying that "tasteless sex scenes are bad" than "all sex=evil, ban ban!" I would agree with this, and if a game has tasteless, useless sex scenes only there to sell the game, then I will not purchase that game. I would still be against saying “Tasteless Sex = Ban, Ban.” As if the market place wants that type of game then the companies would be fools not to produce that type of games.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 01:34 PM
Question: Most filters currently in use are included by the manufacture of the system not the product itself. (Example: the DVD does not have the filter on it, but the DVD player does have the filter built into it). This would work for console games as Xbox 360 or PS3 could be built to include a filter. How would this work with a computer? Are you all advocating that the filter be built into the game itself? Then why not require DVDs, Television programs, Music CDs… to do the same? You know some bad person (such as myself) may not activate the filter on their TV or DVD player and may actually be subject to the offensive material they just purchased knowingly.
Actually, this depends on the filter. Console filters and TV filters simply read the rating programmed into the disc. Game filters often have very particular files that are blocked, cut, or otherwise prevented from being shown when they normally would be.

A DVD basicaly tells the player it's rated "R" and the player says "R movies require permission." While games say: "you can play low blood, no blood, or high blood." And the blood graphics simply aren't shown. Or in the case of VV, a different skin is applied with her in a corset instead of nude. Much like many modders do for KOTOR right here.

If I design a game that includes sex as a plot device should I have some say into if the scene can be skipped or not. If as a writer, I feel it is important to show the emotions between the PC and NPC then why would I allow it to be skipped? Some games actually attempt to tell a story after all. Skipping a chapter of a book is usually not the best way to enjoy or understand the authors work, could it possibly be the same with games.
I tend to agree that most sex scenes in most movies are relevent to the plot, and usually they are artisticly done. And I agree that skipping, or blacking them out cheapens things. But this just shows there's different opinions on the subject.

I would agree with this, and if a game has tasteless, useless sex scenes only there to sell the game, then I will not purchase that game. I would still be against saying “Tasteless Sex = Ban, Ban.” As if the market place wants that type of game then the companies would be fools not to produce that type of games.
Actually, I'm of the opinion that tasteless sex is important too. Lets be honest here, the sex the average person has is nothing like the pretty painted sex we see on TV and in movies. I think most people get upset over tasteless sex because it hits too close to home.

But I think it provides an important point that not all sex is pretty, and that, there are other kinds of sex than missionary man on top. In it's own way, tasteless sex is artistic too because of the naturalness of it. I think there are of course, times when it's not necessary(trinity-neo scene), but I think that's mostly a matter of opinion. The scene still worked for the movie, but I don't think they needed it to be quite as big as it was.

PoiuyWired
12-27-2007, 01:39 PM
I think the problem seems to be "Unexpacted Sex Scenes"

To be fair though, if you are buying a game like Mass Effect, Assassain's Creed, etc... you are expacting violence. So yelling |OMFG I am shooting someone with a gun" is just stupid. You know what you are getting into when you buy it if you have any braincells at all.

Now, here comes MY POINT. If you are buying a game like Leisure Suit Larry, or any of the Hentai games and what not, you KNOW you are going to get quite some Reproduction Scenes, and more. So in this case yelling "OMFG boobies" would be just as stupid.

The problem lies in the sexual content shows up unexpactedly without warning. To make a weird example... what if half way thru Mario Brothers you get a scene where Peach gets it on with Bowser... That would be quite annoying indeed, storyline or not. And things can go both ways. You don't expact girls get it on with you while playing halflife, and you don't expact to see pieces of human meat smearing across the gaming enviroment with things wiggling and screaming while playing Leisure Suit Larry.

And well, while some games like GTA and what not would give you the impression that sexual and violence content would be included, sometimes the content just creeps in when it is unexpacted. I myself don't mind such happenings, preety much seen it all and what not, but I know that some people would be utterly annoyed by it. Guess its like eating chocolate icecream while suddenly seeing 2girls1cup on the screen or something like that.

Could you please provide me with an example of a game that has high sex/low violence content (other than Leisure Suit Larry), so that I might have context for your argument?

There are actually quite alot of it... esp those japanese Hentai games. 0.o

SilentScope001
12-27-2007, 01:42 PM
To be fair though, if you are buying a game like Mass Effect, Assassain's Creed, etc... you are expacting violence. So yelling |OMFG I am shooting someone with a gun" is just stupid. You know what you are getting into when you buy it if you have any braincells at all.

Now, here comes MY POINT. If you are buying a game like Leisure Suit Larry, or any of the Hentai games and what not, you KNOW you are going to get quite some Reproduction Scenes, and more. So in this case yelling "OMFG boobies" would be just as stupid.

The problem lies in the sexual content shows up unexpactedly without warning.

Make sense. I won't get LSL regardless, and I won't advocate for filters for that. Take sex out of that game, and you ruin it totally.

But, I do dislike unexpected sex scenes in games like in ME (Mass Effect) or in Mario.

Put it this way. In LSL, sex is important. In games that have an obligatory sex scene, why is it important? Wouldn't a "Come Hither" stare be enough?

I tend to agree that most sex scenes in most movies are relevent to the plot, and usually they are artisticly done. And I agree that skipping, or blacking them out cheapens things. But this just shows there's different opinions on the subject.

Sex is usually about having pleasure, if a person states, "Let go and sleep with each other", you can assume they are having pleasure, so it doesn't add anything to the story at all. There is the possiblity of rape being important, but you don't need to describe it graphically again, you can assume that one is having pleasure (the rapist), and the other person is feeling pain (the one being raped). No need to have that as well.

mimartin
12-27-2007, 01:48 PM
Or in the case of VV, a different skin is applied with her in a corset instead of nude. Much like many modders do for KOTOR right here. So if the kid knows a little about being a modder, then the filter becomes useless again? There is no, foolproof way around this except possibly not purchasing the game if you find it offensive. Even then parents are at a disadvantage if the parents’ of the kid next door is not as vigilant as they are.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 02:00 PM
Sex is usually about having pleasure, if a person states, "Let go and sleep with each other", you can assume they are having pleasure, so it doesn't add anything to the story at all. There is the possiblity of rape being important, but you don't need to describe it graphically again, you can assume that one is having pleasure (the rapist), and the other person is feeling pain (the one being raped). No need to have that as well.

No, and as an artist I object to your relegating sex to wonton pleasure seeking. Take for example, a virgin, perhaps the person they are currently in love with is more experienced than them. For the virgin, this first sex is an important moment, not some wanton moment of pleasure seeking. I agree that we don't need explicit depictions as one would find in a porno movie, and that's why I think sex can be very tastefully done.

Or for example, two people are in love, one has aids, it's a BIG deal for the other to decide to sleep with them, and yes, I don't need to see or hear about where they stuck it in and how hard, but showing a sexual act(in a movie that told you before hand it had explicit scenes) as a devotion of love and not just wanton pleasure seeking is VERY important to humanity as a whole.

I don't need to know what somebody did to their wife last night, but people need to see and understand what sex is about before even daring to engage in it. Sheltering your children from sex is rather unhealthy for them, and it makes them more curious to it when they finally are exposed, and makes them more likly to take risks.

Most rape isn't about pleasure, it's about control, power. The rapist may get no real pleasure from the act of sex, but the act of control is what really gives them pleasure. And I have a feeling most people who've been raped would be pretty pissed to hear you devolve rape into a matter of pleasure and pain. It's so much more complicated than that, and to understand it, you can't simplify it into two words.

So if the kid knows a little about being a modder, then the filter becomes useless again? There is no, foolproof way around this except possibly not purchasing the game if you find it offensive. Even then parents are at a disadvantage if the parents’ of the kid next door is not as vigilant as they are.
Possibly, but if a kid is very computer knowledgeable then the filter was useless to begin with. My parents kept a watchful eye on me every moment I was on the computer around the ages of 9-13, when I was first getting into computer stuff. It's not hard for parents to learn, get involved with their kids, and make sure they're not doing something they deem inappropriate.

There's this weird assumption among parents these days that kids are going to be protected by this magical faceless orginization. I don't get it. There are however some things a kid must learn for themselves, and I think that's part of the growing-up process and it's very healthy, and that a parent should be a helping hand to that learning process, not an all-enclosing bubble. Which IMO, is unhealthy.

EDIT: as for the parents of the kid next door, that IS part of parenting as well. Knowing your limits of what you can and cannot control. If you feel that the friend next door has lax parents, have the friend over to your place where you have control over the possible situations. Your kids WILL be exposed to things you don't approve of, it's impossible to have it any other way(unless you approve of everything!), it's simply a matter of controling what you can, and dealing with situations as they come.

mimartin
12-27-2007, 02:17 PM
But, I do dislike unexpected sex scenes in games like in ME (Mass Effect) or in Mario.How was the sex scene in Mass Effect unexpected? It was rated M (mature) – Blood, Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes. Told me that you could expect sex in the game since it was BioWare doing the game I expected it to be tastefully done and I was not disappointed. It was very well done, without nudity (if you don’t count a fake butt). You also had a filter up until the last click of the button to refuse the scene. What is the use of putting on a filter if people don’t use it?

SilentScope001
12-27-2007, 02:35 PM
No, and as an artist I object to your relegating sex to wonton pleasure seeking. Take for example, a virgin, perhaps the person they are currently in love with is more experienced than them. For the virgin, this first sex is an important moment, not some wanton moment of pleasure seeking. I agree that we don't need explicit depictions as one would find in a porno movie, and that's why I think sex can be very tastefully done.

And as a person who's reading it, uh, I still see it as a moment of pleasure seeking for the virign. That's what Sex is all about. If Sex wasn't about pleasure, then why in the world would people do it? If it was painful, do you think people would engage in it to procreate the species? Nature made sex pleasurable so that we are encouraged to do it, that's not a lie at all.

Sex isn't to be honored, deified, and said to be a great thing, it isn't that important at all for some people, and in fact, rather disguisting to some people. And it is for these 'some people', that we sorta start this topic. Have artistic freedom all you want, but we always got the right to not see it at well, or at least request you to allow us not to see it, when reading the rest of your work (I may like your awesome story about nuclear annihlation and fighting against a powerful enemy, but I don't need to see sex in the middle of it, and I personally don't see Sex as so important to your main point: That Good Wins).

...Please?

How was the sex scene in Mass Effect unexpected?

It was unexpected because I didn't know Mass Effect HAD a sex scene until it was plastered all over the news about Singapore banning it (all the time, I thought any romance would just be 'off-screen'). Had I bought the game without that importnat news article, and not seen Yazthee's review, I would have found the sex scene unexpected. And I've seen "partial nudity" and "sexual themes" to be redefined a lot (I own GTA III and GTA: Vice City, which had partial nudity be some girl dancing sexually, and sexual themes being a prositutue who does sex off-screen), so I wouldn't have known that actual Sex was in the game.

Not all people pay attention to the game's hype, you know?

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 02:51 PM
And as a person who's reading it, uh, I still see it as a moment of pleasure seeking for the virign. That's what Sex is all about. If Sex wasn't about pleasure, then why in the world would people do it? If it was painful, do you think people would engage in it to procreate the species? Nature made sex pleasurable so that we are encouraged to do it, that's not a lie at all.
Yes, otherwise humanity wouldn't reproduce. And that would be stupid on the part of nature. But no, sex is not ALL about pleasure. I assume you're speaking from experience when you say this?

Sex isn't to be honored, deified, and said to be a great thing, it isn't that important at all for some people, and in fact, rather disguisting to some people. And it is for these 'some people', that we sorta start this topic. Have artistic freedom all you want, but we always got the right to not see it at well, or at least request you to allow us not to see it, when reading the rest of your work (I may like your awesome story about nuclear annihlation and fighting against a powerful enemy, but I don't need to see sex in the middle of it, and I personally don't see Sex as so important to your main point: That Good Wins).

Yes, and such people make up what, .05% of the population? Obviously, these people are not such a representative group as to have them be considered anything more than a biological abnormality. Nature says we're supposed to LIKE sex because we need to reproduce.

Yes, you have the right NOT TO LOOK. Nothing more. You can ask me nicely to put pants on David, but I am under no obligation to do so. I can, in response, tell you not to look. You do not have the right to TELL me to cover up my work, you can cover your eyes much easier.

Actually, I hate stories where good wins. I'm so sick of it, it's used, overdone, monotonous. This is partly why I enjoy newer RPGs because you can be evil and have evil win. And yes, I agree that if sex isn't necessary to the story, it doesn't need to be there. But I DO think that some sex scenes are necessary for the story to work right.

EX: a woman who's been taken advantage of, having sex with say, "the hero", to overcome her fears of being used and abused. In which we see a nice, loving sex scene and not some twisted bondage. The KIND of sex is important here, we don't need every detail, no, but we need to see that our hero, the guy we've been told is a great guy, isn't going to abuse this girl in her most vulnerable moment.

Ray Jones
12-27-2007, 03:17 PM
Explicit display of sexual and violent act are in for but one reason: it sells. And the more discussion there is about it, the more it will eventually help selling the game/movie/media-thingy.

It sells because people are curious, people want to see things. Especially when no one else sees it. No one wants to have violence, and no one wants to see sex, oh my god of course not!! -- But in everybody's mind there is this little voice whispering, "Take a look, come on, look at it, you know you want to!!"


Games and movies give the ultimate chance to anonymously have those things, and more, we even can "control" what's going to happen (up to a certain level).

SilentScope001
12-27-2007, 03:24 PM
Yes, otherwise humanity wouldn't reproduce. And that would be stupid on the part of nature. But no, sex is not ALL about pleasure. I assume you're speaking from experience when you say this?

...Then what is it? Love can still be seen as pleasure. But we are off-topic here.

Yes, and such people make up what, .05% of the population? Obviously, these people are not such a representative group as to have them be considered anything more than a biological abnormality. Nature says we're supposed to LIKE sex because we need to reproduce.

I was referring of course to people like me, Jae, Cortih. They aren't opposed to sex per se, just that they don't want to see it. Jae don't want to see it because she got the Real Deal, it bores her, and she's worried about childern seeing it and getting an unhealthy view. I don't because it's just distracting from the plot. Corith hates it due to voyuerism. We are bigger than you claim us to be.

Actually, I hate stories where good wins. I'm so sick of it, it's used, overdone, monotonous.

So do I. But it was part of the example I made, in which that there are games with a main point, which has nothing to do with sex whatsoever.

The KIND of sex is important here, we don't need every detail, no, but we need to see that our hero, the guy we've been told is a great guy, isn't going to abuse this girl in her most vulnerable moment.

Actually, that's make a good point, I'll grant you that.

Still,
(1) You aren't going to convince anyone who's stubborn in his beliefs. I could still see that 'hero' being abusive and manlipuative, and if we play as the 'hero', we'll KNOW if he is good or evil or whatever.
(2) How can you tell if it is abuse or if she really likes it? I doubt a sex scene is going to prove if she is being abused or if she is not being abused. You can always listen to the afterwards speech instead, and listen to the talk.
(3) An example on how your example would be better done: In the Bard's Tale, you got the player as The Bard who found his fiance. The fiance talked about how her time in bed was her most memorable experience and how she missed the Bard after he was captured by Gypsies. Point is, of course, the Bard was in fact using her, and she was being exploited for sexual favors. You knew this because of the Bard's snide comments, the fact he was lying about being captured by Gypsies, and a monologue to himself about how he'll escape from the fiance's grasp and not get married to her.

I learnt all that through dialogue, with the Bard being snarky and the Girl speaking lovingly. There was no need for actual sex to be shown to figure out the truth.

Achilles
12-27-2007, 03:32 PM
Explicit display of sexual and violent act are in for but one reason: it sells. I think that to a certain degree this is true, however I also think that to a certain degree this thinking undermines our maturity.

When John Woo makes a violent film, he does it to sell tickets. When the Coen Brothers make a violent film, they do it to tell a story. When Michael Bay directs a sex scene, the odds are pretty good that it's going to be gratuitous. When David Cronenburg directs a sex scene, it's almost certainly crucial to the story.

No doubt that low-brow use of violence and sex attracts an audience, but that doesn't automatically mean that artistic use of sex and violence should be lumped into this category.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 03:43 PM
I was referring of course to people like me, Jae, Cortih. They aren't opposed to sex per se, just that they don't want to see it. Jae don't want to see it because she got the Real Deal, it bores her, and she's worried about childern seeing it and getting an unhealthy view. I don't because it's just distracting from the plot. Corith hates it due to voyuerism. We are bigger than you claim us to be.
Perhaps we miscommunicared. I was under the impression you were talking about people who were asexual or had no desire to have/see sex or pleasure themselves physically. Not people who are simply opposed to seeing it on the tube.

So do I. But it was part of the example I made, in which that there are games with a main point, which has nothing to do with sex whatsoever.
Perhaps the hero is on a quest to kill rapists? Yes, I'm making this up on the fly, but my point is that sex COULD have some relation to the plot. I simply think people shouldn't dismiss ALL sex right off just because it IS sex.

Actually, that's make a good point, I'll grant you that.

Still,
(1) You aren't going to convince anyone who's stubborn in his beliefs. I could still see that 'hero' being abusive and manlipuative, and if we play as the 'hero', we'll KNOW if he is good or evil or whatever.
Of course, I don't intend to, only you can change your mind. That creates an entirely different kind of hero. But I disagree about us playing the hero. If we KNOW they're good/bad, it's dumb, what's the point? You know how it'll turn out. The whole idea of modern RPGs is to make a hero who's not just heroic, but human, with all those faults.

(2) How can you tell if it is abuse or if she really likes it? I doubt a sex scene is going to prove if she is being abused or if she is not being abused. You can always listen to the afterwards speech instead, and listen to the talk.
Expressions, her mood afterward, her feelings toward the hero. But it gives an interesting dimension to things when you see what happened, and then hear how the characters felt about it. It gives an interesting thought process between how your interpreted what happened, and how the characters did.

(3) An example on how your example would be better done: In the Bard's Tale, you got the player as The Bard who found his fiance. The fiance talked about how her time in bed was her most memorable experience and how she missed the Bard after he was captured by Gypsies. Point is, of course, the Bard was in fact using her, and she was being exploited for sexual favors. You knew this because of the Bard's snide comments, the fact he was lying about being captured by Gypsies, and a monologue to himself about how he'll escape from the fiance's grasp and not get married to her.

I learnt all that through dialogue, with the Bard being snarky and the Girl speaking lovingly. There was no need for actual sex to be shown to figure out the truth.
True, but I also think that's one of the failings of modern RPGs, too much information is given to you through dialog. In a situation where information must be gleaned through visuals, it is much harder to discern what's right/wrong or really going on.

Ray Jones
12-27-2007, 03:45 PM
No doubt that low-brow use of violence and sex attracts an audience, but that doesn't automatically mean that artistic use of sex and violence should be lumped into this category.Pure artistic work is in no way interested in sales figures, only in expressing itself. Thus it cannot be lumped into the "selling" category. ;

However, whenever there is sex and violence in a commercial movie, it is because it sells.

Web Rider
12-27-2007, 03:51 PM
However, whenever there is sex and violence in a commercial movie, it is because it sells.
because we live in the Star Wars universe where all good is Jedi and all evil is Sith?

You can't simply divide works into "commercial" and "art". Some are both.

The movie Mr. Brooks is both sexual, and violent. But it's done to tell the story, the violence is mostly low save for one scene. There is blatant sex, but it's only shown for a few moments. It's artistic, because it tells a good story, it's a psychological thriller, which is a work of art in and of itsself. It's violent because Mr Brooks is a murderer, and it's sexual because he kills people while they're having sex and then poses their bodies in a sexual fashion.

This movie has both sex and violence, and neither were done to "sell" the movie, the selling point of the movie was the fact that it's a psychological thriller with some interesting statements about sociopaths and genetics.

Ray Jones
12-28-2007, 09:35 AM
because we live in the Star Wars universe where all good is Jedi and all evil is Sith?Do we?

You can't simply divide works into "commercial" and "art".Yes I can.

Some are both.Correct. Hence the phrase "pure artistic work".

This movie has both sex and violence, and neither were done to "sell" the movie, the selling point of the movie was the fact that it's a psychological thriller with some interesting statements about sociopaths and genetics.There were several forms of art used to support the telling of the story. To make it more entertaining, to distract from flaws, in general to make the movie more appealing to the audience -- clearly with the intention to sell it better.

Web Rider
12-28-2007, 11:56 AM
Yes I can.
Then draw the line. If you can draw a perfect line between "art" and "commercialism", then there must be two individual items you can place side by side that each will perfectly sit on either side of the line, with absolutely none of anything similar to them falling ON the line.

Correct. Hence the phrase "pure artistic work".
There were never pure artistic works, even children with crayons want to "sell" their work to their parents. And they don't even understand economics yet.

There were several forms of art used to support the telling of the story. To make it more entertaining, to distract from flaws, in general to make the movie more appealing to the audience -- clearly with the intention to sell it better.
And that IS the point of a movie. However, you assertiona was that ALL violence, and ALL sex in ANY movie was ONLY for the purpose of making it "sell". Because it is a movie, by default, everything in a movie is to make it sell better, to better round out the plot, to enhance the story, to give the viewer a certain perspective on things, or to simply appeal to our lust for violence and sex.

However, the latter is not the ONLY reason sex and violence are added to movies. So, unless you would like to provide a counter?

Darth InSidious
12-29-2007, 09:23 AM
I would still be against saying “Tasteless Sex = Ban, Ban.” As if the market place wants that type of game then the companies would be fools not to produce that type of games.

What about banning bad taste generally? Imagine it - a world devoid of plaster ducks and Crimbo Muzack(tm)...

mimartin
12-29-2007, 03:07 PM
What about banning bad taste generally? I’m all for it, the question then would be who decides what is in bad taste? If I’m the one deciding then I’m sorry to say KOTOR is a thing of the past as is Hanna Montana’s father. The mullet is what I consider the ultimate in bad taste. :D Do you think there is room at Guantanamo for these other bad taste offenders Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, Britney Spears, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Bill Clinton…

jonathan7
12-29-2007, 03:13 PM
I’m all for it, the question then would be who decides what is in bad taste? If I’m the one deciding then I’m sorry to say KOTOR is a thing of the past as is Hanna Montana’s father. The mullet is what I consider the ultimate in bad taste. :D Do you think there is room at Guantanamo for these other bad taste offenders Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, Britney Spears, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Bill Clinton…

Hows Bill Clinton in that list?

Darth InSidious
12-29-2007, 03:16 PM
I’m all for it, the question then would be who decides what is in bad taste? If I’m the one deciding then I’m sorry to say KOTOR is a thing of the past as is Hanna Montana’s father. The mullet is what I consider the ultimate in bad taste. :D Do you think there is room at Guantanamo for these other bad taste offenders Michael Jackson, OJ Simpson, Britney Spears, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Bill Clinton…
Me, naturally. My idea, so I get to be Lord High Executioner and jury on it. :xp:

mimartin
12-29-2007, 03:21 PM
Hows Bill Clinton in that list?I like him and would vote for him again, but when it comes to bad taste all I can say is "intern."
Me, naturally. My idea, so I get to be Lord High Executioner and jury on it. :xp:Well I just hope you allow some small suggestions. ;)

jonathan7
12-29-2007, 03:32 PM
I like him and would vote for him again, but when it comes to bad taste all I can say is "intern."

Aye, I like Clinton, although his taste in woman leaves somethig to be desired... he did marry Satan!

Darth InSidious
12-29-2007, 04:00 PM
Well I just hope you allow some small suggestions. ;)
Provided they aren't clichéd. :xp:

Corinthian
12-29-2007, 04:08 PM
I would think the perjury thing would be in worse taste than sampling the staff.

Web Rider
12-29-2007, 04:15 PM
Aye, I like Clinton, although his taste in woman leaves somethig to be desired... he did marry Satan!

and his choice in Hummers weren't exactly stellar either. I guess that's why Bush appointed Condi right? No chance of temptation there.

SilentScope001
12-29-2007, 09:20 PM
Perhaps the hero is on a quest to kill rapists? Yes, I'm making this up on the fly, but my point is that sex COULD have some relation to the plot. I simply think people shouldn't dismiss ALL sex right off just because it IS sex.

You could have the girl scream as the rapist, you know, rapes?

You don't need to show the actual scene of sex to convey the message. The question being: Why bother then?

Of course, I don't intend to, only you can change your mind. That creates an entirely different kind of hero. But I disagree about us playing the hero. If we KNOW they're good/bad, it's dumb, what's the point? You know how it'll turn out. The whole idea of modern RPGs is to make a hero who's not just heroic, but human, with all those faults.

The point of a modern RPG is to figure out the ending. Always have been. You know the DSM Exile is evil, you don't need to go in an expose. What you really need to know is what happens after the DSM Exile kills the Jedi Masters in a rather evil manner. Once you find that out, game ends.

I never played an RPG for the characters, only for the plot. Prehaps games might come in the future with more developed 'human' choices, but you can never isolate that metagame element which decides if people say: "Should I play good or bad today?"

Expressions, her mood afterward, her feelings toward the hero. But it gives an interesting dimension to things when you see what happened, and then hear how the characters felt about it. It gives an interesting thought process between how your interpreted what happened, and how the characters did.

Er. Nah, I don't see the point. Can be conveyed via other methods.

(We hear the screams of pain, then we see the laughing girl talking to her mate stating, "Man, that was good! The way you swung that whip at me was so awesome! Do it again next time, will ya?")

True, but I also think that's one of the failings of modern RPGs, too much information is given to you through dialog. In a situation where information must be gleaned through visuals, it is much harder to discern what's right/wrong or really going on.

I wouldn't be so certain. People may be lying while they speak, meaning that it is harder to tell if they are telling the truth or lying. But mostly, you usually want to make it clear what both people are feeling right off the bat because otherwise, too much time be spent figuring that out, and they may come to different conclusions.

What about banning bad taste generally? Imagine it - a world devoid of plaster ducks and Crimbo Muzack(tm)...

NOOOOO! I might make good money off making lame stuff!

Jae Onasi
12-30-2007, 02:00 AM
What about banning bad taste generally? Imagine it - a world devoid of plaster ducks and Crimbo Muzack(tm)...

What? And miss the opportunity to send my mother a Clapper to turn on the fluorescent light that makes her Chia-Scooby Doo grow some useless greenery? I don't think so.

:D

MJ-W4
12-30-2007, 03:49 AM
What? And miss the opportunity to send my mother a Clapper to turn on the fluorescent light that makes her Chia-Scooby Doo grow some useless greenery? I don't think so.

:DNow that earns you about 300 DS points. Should 'be nice to your old ones' be made a law? At least over Christmas? :D

PoiuyWired
12-30-2007, 03:29 PM
Well, always be nice to the old ones... you REALLY don't want to piss off those guys sleeping under Antartica...

:)

But a bit on topic (or off topic as it seems) It is always interesting to see that why sexy things would be a taboo on so many levels that it is almost to the point of stupidity, and while, really, it does minimal harm to the grand scheme of things. Well, is it THAT bad really?

Well, I am not going to talk about the general acceptance of violance and war, since it is just too obvious as it is THE popular heroic theme to anything major in our civilizations from art to literature to sport to roleplay to childplay to cultured games to religion to national anthems...and that it is impossable to convince kids that it is something wrong effectively when they open up some supposedly good book and see how heros run around killing random people and rip off their forskins just to get his ticket to marry a cute girl... something that makes GTA look like a friendly teaparty.

Granted, I am still going to enjoy virtual slaughtering of everykind lots more than virtual sexy stuff, pr0nz not withstanding.