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Point Man
01-13-2008, 09:56 PM
A mandatory University of Delaware program requires residence hall students to acknowledge that "all whites are racist" and offers them "treatment" for any incorrect attitudes regarding class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality they might hold upon entering the school, according to a civil rights group.
Entire story here. (http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58426)

Copy of the curriculum here. (http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/730a8163b35b360f8edd2b889c832ce9.pdf?PHPSESSID=c0f 807c16359e7d1b7573d48b9be9ec9)


All I can say is I'm glad I don't go to the University of Delaware.

Edit: After this was publicized, The University of Delaware dropped the program.

Edit 2: Curriculum link fixed.

Web Rider
01-13-2008, 10:14 PM
You know, it's not when non-whites stop pushing for equality that the civil rights movement dies, it's when non-white groups start pushing for non-white supremacy and "white guilt".

But then again it's the generation that much of non-whites were brought up in. Somewhere after king the attitude switched from "lets be as equals" to "you're grandpa screwed up, you owe me." Civil rights isn't important any more is people can make some money.

And I hate the attitude taken by many in my own party(democrat) who support this attitude instead of saying "STFU" to these people who continue to spread this attitude that non-whites can do no wrong. It's just as bigoted and discriminatory as what they're accusing whites of.

Yet, because the attitude that they can do no wrong is so prevalent, the supporters of the idea just can't see it.

JediAthos
01-13-2008, 10:52 PM
Wow...just wow....I'll say one thing, the university has intestinal fortitude to try something like that even if it is a bunch of crap. I hope they aren't fond of that particular program because I'd wager it's on its way out the door.

RobQel-Droma
01-13-2008, 11:00 PM
I just love our education program.

Inyri
01-13-2008, 11:14 PM
Well hopefully we can count on the University of Delaware to reject the "if you've got a problem, blame it on the nearest American" mentality, given its location. Although you never know...

Corinthian
01-13-2008, 11:52 PM
You know, is it just me, or do I sniff just a hint of hypocrisy? Maybe a little bit of becoming what they hate the most? I wonder what they'd think if whites started wearing collars and picking cotton. And, no, this is not one of my off-color jokes.

EDIT: And...what in the hell? Either he's very close, or the President is a white guy. This is almost as weird as a black guy joining the KKK.

Web Rider
01-14-2008, 12:23 AM
This is almost as weird as a black guy joining the KKK.

Why are we talking about Clarence Thomas again?

John Galt
01-14-2008, 12:25 AM
That's just plain stupid. We get our rights by being human(and thereby sentient), not by having a certain complexion.

SilentScope001
01-14-2008, 12:41 AM
What? Aren't all humans racist (in that they have unconsisus biases), in a sense?

Corinthian
01-14-2008, 12:54 AM
Okay, starting down.

Huh? What does Clarence Thomas have to do with the Ku Klux Klan?

Everyone knows racism is stupid, John.

Wrong, Silentscope, in a sense. Some of us genuinely don't give a flying flip about what one person's race is. Now, yes, there is a degree of separation, always will be - on average, people are going to tend to stick within their own little groups. It's harder for a white to understand an Arab or Asian mindset than it is to understand another white fellow's, but that's a different situation.

Aeroldoth
01-14-2008, 01:00 AM
The class is just one instance of a national push by Sharon Martinas of the Challenging White Supremacy (CWS) Workshop. From their "About Us":

Challenging White Supremacy (CWS) workshop organizers believe that the most effective way to create fundamental social change in the U.S. is by building mass-based, multi-racial grassroots movements led by radical activists of color. We also believe that the major barrier to creating these movements is racism or white supremacy. One way to challenge white supremacy is to do anti-racist training workshops in our own communities. CWS has worked in the broad-based radical, multi-racial community of the Bay Area since 1993.

CWS workshops have been designed by a group of white anti-racist organizers. We believe our special responsibility is to help white social justice activists become principled and effective anti-racist organizers -- both to challenge our white privilege and to work for racial justice in all our social justice work.

We think that anti-racist training and organizing with white social justice activists complements and supports grassroots organizing and leadership development in communities of color. Both kinds of work are necessary to help build mass-based, multi-racial social justice movements.

http://www.cwsworkshop.org/resources/ARAgenda.html

Corinthian
01-14-2008, 01:04 AM
I'm really getting tired of people whining about Racism. For the most part, institutionalized Racism has been eradicated. Yeah, there are hholdouts left. always gonna be, but good gravy, this is getting ridiculous. Of course, they're just milking it for every donation and piece of political power they can get. They're like Televangelists, only instead of Paul Crouch and Benny Hinn being their figureheads, it's people like Al Sharpton.

Web Rider
01-14-2008, 01:25 AM
Huh? What does Clarence Thomas have to do with the Ku Klux Klan?

Clarence Thomas, the Supreme Court Judge guy, was known to be rather racist against blacks, even though he himself was black.

Totenkopf
01-14-2008, 01:42 AM
Well, it's probably no coincidence that many of the institutions of "higher" learning in this country are probably run by pot addled refugees from the 60s-70s. :D

adamqd
01-14-2008, 05:05 AM
"Blacks cant be Racist"....... This is a term Created by Blacks obviously, the only reason it stands is because, white people are scared to speak now, if I say Whites cant be racist, does that make it true? Blacks dont have the power to act on there racism, therefore there not racist?! "I dont like you Whiteboy, But I haven't got enough Political power to beat you up, So run along now".
I found this the other day, it's about white Guilt, quite interesting...
http://streams.wpsx.psu.edu/White_Guilt10102.html

Balderdash
01-14-2008, 06:46 AM
"Blacks cant be Racist"....... This is a term Created by Blacks obviously, the only reason it stands is because, white people are scared to speak now, if I say Whites cant be racist, does that make it true? Blacks dont have the power to act on there racism, therefore there not racist?! "I dont like you Whiteboy, But I haven't got enough Political power to beat you up, So run along now".
I found this the other day, it's about white Guilt, quite interesting...
http://streams.wpsx.psu.edu/White_Guilt10102.html
If whites are afraid to speak, then it begs the question: what would they say if they were not afraid?

And the idea that a minority group can't oppress a majority group is not new, and has been an accepted sociological paradigm for decades.

It depends on how you define racism, though - the word has always had a loose definition, probably because it is such an inflammatory subject. If you understand racism to mean any kind of discrimination against a person or a group of people, based on their race, then minorities can be called racist. If you define racism as systemically oppressing another race, then it's perfectly acceptable, and indeed a logical conclusion, to say that minorities cannot be racist. The former is the laymen definition and the latter is more commonly taught at universities and discussed by sociologists.

This is very different to saying that all whites are racist, which seems to me to be completely out of left field, and honestly, a bit of a travesty.

adamqd
01-14-2008, 06:56 AM
Agreed, I came off a bit uneducated in my last post, but sometimes we are made to feel like Satan in the Holy land

Jason Skywalker
01-14-2008, 07:12 AM
I lol and facepalm at this.

Weiser_Cain
01-14-2008, 07:19 AM
I always wonder if some of you guy are just waiting for something like this so you can pounce, airing all your grievances about the 'horrors' of 'forced political correctness'.

Darth InSidious
01-14-2008, 10:03 AM
Ooh, really? I hadn't noticed.

As SilentScope said, we all have ridiculous, irrational prejudices of one kind or another.

Weiser_Cain
01-14-2008, 12:00 PM
I have a very rational hatred of cheese

Please don't post spam. ~tk102

MJ-W4
01-14-2008, 12:52 PM
To me, the whole programme appears to be an April fool's joke where someone got the date entirely wrong. Maybe the guys at Delaware uni should start by studying something easy, like a calendar, for instance?

Corinthian
01-14-2008, 01:08 PM
No, no, see, I'd be more inclined to think the lawsuit for $3 Quadrillion was a joke. This is about par for the course.

El Sitherino
01-14-2008, 01:09 PM
White guilt.

[/thread]

Web Rider
01-14-2008, 03:05 PM
If you define racism as systemically oppressing another race, then it's perfectly acceptable, and indeed a logical conclusion, to say that minorities cannot be racist. The former is the laymen definition and the latter is more commonly taught at universities and discussed by sociologists.

But to an extent, the pervasiveness of the "white guilt" concept is oppression of others in a form by a minority. Oppressin, in a nutshell, is to make one set of peoples less than and or subserviant to another set. "White Guilt" treats whites like they are lesser people because of their "inherant racism".

Regardless of what universities would like me to believe, racism will always be, IMO, any form of discimination based on abstract physical colorations or places of birth. Remember, whites discriminated against other whites for a long time before blacks really came into the picture.

TK-8252
01-14-2008, 03:33 PM
For the most part, institutionalized Racism has been eradicated. Yeah, there are hholdouts left.

Yeah. Like the U.S. Justice Department.

Corinthian
01-14-2008, 04:44 PM
You want to back up that statement?

JediMaster12
01-14-2008, 06:04 PM
Racism is the irrational hatred of a particular group based usually on a physical characteristic or an idealism. The idea that the University of Delaware was promoting this kind of a program makes me wonder where exactly we are heading in our society.

For them to make the assumption that every white person there is a racist shows that there is a problem or a huge indicator that somebody who dislikes white people is in power. Frankly I am tired of the bs double standards that fly about within the culture groups. Case in point: It is not okay for a white person to call a black person a "******" or "nigga" but it is okay for a black person to call their own that. Yeah they associate that as a form of "group identity" but frankly the origins of those terms are derogatory. Same goes for calling an Italiam a "dego" or whatever other iscriminatory names there are for different groups. As for the program, does that make me a racist being the product of mixed heritage with a majority in HIspanic while the rest is Irish, Sicilian and Lithuanian German?

I think it goes to people trying to be PC and it is going overboard. Much like a discussion on another board about the Golden Compass promoting atheism. As Heston once said, "It's a madhouse! A MADHOUSE!!!"

TK-8252
01-14-2008, 09:36 PM
You want to back up that statement?

War on Drugs

Point Man
01-14-2008, 10:03 PM
If you define racism as systemically oppressing another race, then it's perfectly acceptable, and indeed a logical conclusion, to say that minorities cannot be racist.Ever hear of South Africa?

This is very different to saying that all whites are racist, which seems to me to be completely out of left field, and honestly, a bit of a travesty.
QFT

Balderdash
01-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Well, true I suppose. Apartheid is a fairly unique period of history where a sovereign state was controlled by the minority group, who ruled over the majority group with a proverbial iron fist. They only won their independence in 1960 though, and the argument would be that the NP would not have have been able to maintain their regime for as long as they did without commonwealth support. That's another discussion for another time though... I don't want to take your thread off topic. :)

Char Ell
01-15-2008, 11:34 PM
Who is Dr. Shakti Butler, the individual who presented this course for the University of Delaware Office of Residence Life?
(if you didn't guess already she is not "white") But for the record, I am "white" or "Caucasian" as that is what I generally check when queried about my race or ethnicity on any various number of institutional forms I'm obliged to complete from time to time.

A couple of quotes from Dr. Butler's University of Delaware curriculum jimbo linked to that really irked me:
In response to the white nationalism of "Manifest Destiny," and its current derivative "illegal alien," contemporary Chicano/a activists proudly wear T-shirts with a map of "Occupied America," over the motto, "We didn't cross the border. The border crossed us." Living in the border state of Arizona this is a hot button issue for most people in my state. I am not at all interested in "empowering" illegal immigrants from Mexico or Latin America or really from any foreign country with such ideas despite the fact that I believe Dr. Butler would classify my view as "racist" in nature.
WHITE PRIVILEGE: A privilege is a right, favor, advantage, immunity, specially granted to one individual or group, and withheld from another. (Websters. Italics mine.) So I opened up another Firefox tab and went to www.websters.com and got rerouted to http://dictionary.reference.com/. I searched for the term "white privilege" and got the following result
There are no dictionary entries for white privilege, but white, privilege are spelled correctly.
- Source: dictionary.com (http://www.reference.com/search?q=white%20privilege&r=d&db=web) In short I did not care at all for how Dr. Butler took the definition for "privilege" and somehow associated that with "white privilege."

click here for Dr. Butler's curriculum vitae (http://www.world-trust.org/about/dr_butler.html)
- the fact that she obtained her education in NYC and San Francisco raises red flags with me as I've found that my core set of values often greatly conflict with people from these two locations.
- Interestingly enough, I also noted that the doctor's curriculum vitae does not list the University of Delaware despite the fact that dozens of other collegiate level educational institutions are listed.

click here for a Santa Monica College student's account of her experience with Dr. Butler (http://www.smc.edu/voices/forerunner/volume2_1/focus%20on%20smc/Shakti%20Butler%20Intro.htm)

Article about Dr. Butler in St. Mary's College of California Collegian (http://www.smccollegian.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=d3e01d5f-57e9-4ee0-948a-45b149ca8dd8)

I do consider the 2nd definition of power Dr. Butler outlined in the curriculum to be valid for me.
2. Power is the ability to define reality and to convince other people that it is their definition. (Definition by Dr. Wade Nobles) I have no doubt that power as defined above is what Dr. Butler is attempting to achieve. I am also sure that racism, what I define as one or more persons adverse treatment of one or more other persons based on difference in skin color, is alive and kicking in America, Dr. Butler's course did not have power sufficient to change my view on what racism is.

Darth InSidious
01-16-2008, 09:07 AM
If you define racism as systemically oppressing another race, then it's perfectly acceptable, and indeed a logical conclusion, to say that minorities cannot be racist.
Heard of the Zealots?

Balderdash
01-16-2008, 12:38 PM
Jewish fundamentalist terrorists and violent pragmatists. They couldn't exactly be termed racist though, as far as I'm aware. Care to elaborate?

DeadYorick
01-18-2008, 02:16 AM
God this is one of the most racist news articles I have ever seen. If you go to practically any town in the world you can see racism beyond black and white. 40 years ago it was that black people got lynched. But now Jews are being beat up in bars and muslim's are being suspected of carrying guns in their coats. I have said this before on many forums

"Racism is the one reason why the world is so f***ed up" There are many black people who are racist to white people. That university is probably going to create a black KKK and start lynching white people claiming they are "the most racist race on the planet and must die"

PoiuyWired
01-18-2008, 11:08 AM
though technically jews and muslims are not "people" at all...
not a race, but more like differences in religious/cultural bearings.

Darth InSidious
01-18-2008, 01:04 PM
Jewish fundamentalist terrorists and violent pragmatists. They couldn't exactly be termed racist though, as far as I'm aware. Care to elaborate?
Well, no, I suppose being avowed to kill every Roman you meet in Palestine isn't racist....

Corinthian
01-18-2008, 01:47 PM
Actually, Poiuy, Arabs are a race, and so are Jews. Not every Jew follows Judaism, and not everyone following Judaism is a Jew.

Balderdash
01-18-2008, 02:32 PM
Well, no, I suppose being avowed to kill every Roman you meet in Palestine isn't racist....
It's a bloody piece of history; arguably it's no way to conduct a revolution (the romans all but eradicated them) but I would definitely hesitate to call it racism.

The Roman Empire had conquered Judea. The Zealots were definitely pragmatists but the phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" would seem to apply.

Actually, Poiuy, Arabs are a race, and so are Jews. Not every Jew follows Judaism, and not everyone following Judaism is a Jew.
Terracentral mentioned Jews and Muslims, not Jews and Arabs. And everyone that follows Judaism is a Jew. We don't call them Judaists, or Judaians, do we? ;)

Inyri
01-18-2008, 04:27 PM
I wouldn't call Judaism a race so much as a culture. You can be culturally Jewish but not practice Judaism, for instance. However for instance I had a friend in high school who was Pakistani and converted to Judaism, so I would call her religiously Jewish but not culturally Jewish. It's a difficult distinction for some people to make. I consider the religious aspect and cultural aspect two completely different things.

Weiser_Cain
01-18-2008, 04:58 PM
? Mel Brooks = Sammy Davis Jr ?

MJ-W4
01-19-2008, 04:41 AM
Actually, Poiuy, Arabs are a race, and so are Jews. Not every Jew follows Judaism, and not everyone following Judaism is a Jew.Just for info: there is only one human race.

PoiuyWired
01-21-2008, 06:43 AM
Just for info: there is only one human race.

QFE. Unless you are a half-elf, or a half-umberhulk, or BOTH! :)

Gargoyle King
01-21-2008, 07:48 AM
QFE. Unless you are a half-elf, or a half-umberhulk, or BOTH! :)Yeah, i'm actually a Minoutaur. :lol:
This is a pile of crap, not all white people are racist; racism exists in any race - it's part of human psychology IMHO and will never fully go away.

PoiuyWired
01-21-2008, 11:47 PM
Though on the other hand " Everyone is a bit racist"

Yes, its a quote on the famous "Avenue Q" where we learn THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON in our lives "The Internet Is For Pr0n"

Web Rider
01-21-2008, 11:54 PM
Though on the other hand " Everyone is a bit racist."

It's true, though I don't really think it's a bad thing.

yes....I can hear the: "ZOMG!!!! DID HE JUST SAY RACISM ISN'T BAD!!!??"

And yes, I did. It's a bunch of PC garbage that we all have to like each other and so on. It's our right to not like people for any reason we choose. What isn't our right is to treat others poorly because of it. Modern cultural relativist thinking seems to imply that we can't NOT LIKE anyone for any reason because they're "unique" and "special".

They're not, we're not, I'm not. And I don't have to hide my dislike behind a smile. Personally, I find that far more rude than to outright say: "I don't like you."

I once made a comment about illegal immigrants "flying under the radar" in reference to avoiding being caught by INS. I heard a *huff* from behind me, and after the debate I confronted the girl about her discontentment with my opinion. Damn it took a lot of pressuring her on my part to get her to spit out why she disagreed with me.

Why is it so hard for people to admit they don't like somebody, or something they say? It seems like we're all under this impression that holding your tongue makes a healthy society, and to this day I've never seen lying and deception make a healthy society.

Tommycat
01-22-2008, 12:41 AM
Actually, I think racism is bad, but being prejudiced is only natural. So while I dislike the prejudices based on race(more correctly ethnicity unless you happen to be prejudiced against chimps.... dirty creatures they are....), I think it will always be a part of our society.

Darth InSidious
01-22-2008, 04:24 AM
Actually, I think racism is bad, but being prejudiced is only natural. So while I dislike the prejudices based on race(more correctly ethnicity unless you happen to be prejudiced against chimps.... dirty creatures they are....), I think it will always be a part of our society.
QFE.

PoiuyWired
01-22-2008, 08:55 AM
Well, obviously there is quite some difference between "a bit racist" which is probably a kind of personal prejudice without greatly affacting work and such, relative to zealot nutcase running around in white bedsheets.trying to murder people.

But well, I always wonder, sometimes, that why do you not like a specific person? this may or maynot be ethnicity related. Really, think about that.

1jrJedismom
02-13-2008, 04:09 PM
I can't help but wonder at the attitude that all whites are racist. I am givien the attitude on a regular basis that Im wrong because Im white. Gee. I wish someone told me sooner that I was. I was raised to believe in equality and to give respect to all races. I think whites are not the only ones that should have an attitude adjustment.

Yes, the attitudes toward other races has been less then pure, but those attitudes were not held by all.

Totenkopf
02-13-2008, 05:30 PM
What's actually perplexing, but obviously VERY convenient, is the notion that one has to be politically powerful somehow to even qualify as racist. Still, I've met minorities that admit their own group is every bit as, or even more so, racist than the majority. I guess some people need a crutch to explain away many of their own personal failings.

mur'phon
02-14-2008, 03:07 AM
What's actually perplexing, but obviously VERY convenient, is the notion that one has to be politically powerful somehow to even qualify as racist. Still, I've met minorities that admit their own group is every bit as, or even more so, racist than the majority.

The reason might be that it's far easier for someone politically powerfull to harm others by being racist. So equally racist: yes, equally harmed by racism: no.

DarthJebus05
02-14-2008, 05:07 AM
That is disgusting. I'm white and I'm no racist.

millinniummany3
03-01-2008, 03:08 AM
Facing race issues all the time where I live, in as few words as possible my feelings are I don't want to be racist, I try not to be racist but when you look at the anti white sentiment from ethnic groups, whether it be the Delaware college putting it onto white people that they are racist or in my case being made responsible for ethnic victimization, it can be hard not to hold bad or even racist views and feelings towards them.

Web Rider
03-01-2008, 04:04 AM
Facing race issues all the time where I live, in as few words as possible my feelings are I don't want to be racist, I try not to be racist but when you look at the anti white sentiment from ethnic groups, whether it be the Delaware college putting it onto white people that they are racist or in my case being made responsible for ethnic victimization, it can be hard not to hold bad or even racist views and feelings towards them.

So, it's OK for them to be racist at us, but it's not OK for us to be racist at them?

patient_zero
03-01-2008, 04:49 AM
I think it's fair to say that there probably have always been and will always be some sort of predjudice present. The ideal "equality utopia" people dream of is, well, a dream. Though personally my problem would be more with a "culture" being predjudice rather than people not liking each other. I mean, if you look at it everyone in this culture is stereotyped in some manner, whether they're male or female, black, white, asian or hispanic.

So I think their attitude is wrong in that if they really want to do something about prejudice they should lean more on a "We all need to work together" approach, as even if it's basically the same thing under a different banner people will feel more inclined to think "Yes, we all should work together" instead of the current reaction of "But we're not all racist". Wording has a big impact on these sorts of campaigns, and in targeting a specific group as the problem they've already alienated that group from helping them achieve their goal. Rather counter-productive, no?

I guess I could say I'm for the idea of anti-discrimination policies and education, but think they're going about it an a bad, bad way.

millinniummany3
03-01-2008, 05:10 AM
@ Web Rider: That seems to be how they think, though I don't want to try and second guess the enraged outlook. I will however give my perspective. A month ago we celebrated our national holiday and the indiginous community held a protest where they burned the flag. The common thinking is that were the same thing done to them it would trigger violence and allegations of racism. All the time white people are compared to Nazis invading other countries, and every white person is made out to be responsible for the government policy of removing indiginous children from poor living conditions. We are seeing something of a reenactment of this where police action is interveening in child abuse within the native settlements, a policy that is heavily criticized. It would seem that criticism of white people is allowed more readily than criticism of indiginous people, the thinking being fear of reprocussions both through physical confrontation and throuh calls of racism, but to be fair it could just as easily be trying to keep either side from going too far. Such fear of retalliation also shows in reaction to crimes committed by indiginous people, keeping in mind we do not have something like the LAPD's CRASH task force. Much like the African American and Latin communities where law enforcement are to tread carefully there are places here where it has been known for police to be called out to be ambushed, victims of crime do not report what's happened to them out of fear of reprisal and those who are arrested fuel the race issue with comments such as 'you hate me and are doing this because I'm black.'

Arcesious
03-01-2008, 10:46 AM
I believe I may see what part of the problem is...

Most of the black population now are Mexicans or of mexican decent. Many of these Mexicans and/or decendents of mexicans have come to the U.S via illegal immigration, and throughout their lives have known only hardship. If you've ever watched the world's most amazing police videos, you might notice that about 70% of the videos aired on the show, on Spike TV, include black skinned people being arrested for various crimes. Since many mexicans face hardships in the United States if they are illegal immigrants or dencendents of illegal immigrants, some of them, as seen in the police videos, do crazy crimes. However, this is not the real image of the black population in the United States, which is likely just as successful as the white population, and also to note, white people do all that crazy stuff too. It's just that when a black person will watch a show with police videos like that, it often gives them the wrong idea about the racial status of black skinned people. Also to note, as you may have noticed, many black people are rappers, and due to that, many black people are unfairly discriminated as being mostly gangsters and criminals. The problem simply is the way the media and entertainment buisnesses portray the black population often leads to them thinking that white skinned people are being racist towards them. And in order to solve that problem, it would help if the media and entertainment people would air shows showing many blacks being just like the white people they show on TV as being really nice, non-gangster like people and such. For example, movies, such as: City of Men, First Sunday, We own the night, American Gangster, and many more movies portray black people badly. I'm no racist, and I am white, but I completely understand why this university mentioned got so upset about racism.

Corinthian
03-01-2008, 01:33 PM
Yeah, and Star Wars depicted Lando Calrissian as being a Lady's Man, thus enforcing stereotypes. You know, Big Trouble in Little China depicted Asians as being Magic-Wielding, further enforcing a stereotype of Asians as being occultists. Furthermore, Lo Pan was Asian.

Good grief.

If every race was as sensitive as the Vocal Black Community (Read: Al Sharpton) then nobody could say or do anything for five minutes without someone accusing them of being racists.

Also, American Gangster is based on a true story. Most of it actually happened.

Arcesious
03-01-2008, 02:02 PM
Still, even though that movie is based on a true story, many people think that is how all black people are in American Gangster, the way it depicts the black people as being gangsters just gives people the wrong idea...

Web Rider
03-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I believe I may see what part of the problem is...

Most of the black population now are Mexicans or of mexican decent.
The US census actually includes most hispanics as "white" which is technically correct since most latin americans are more directly related to Spanish or Portuguese Europeans than to the indigenous tribes or africans.

Which is not really my point, as the US census does not include hispanics, ie: mexicans and other latin countrymen below the border, with black. "Black" is almost purely for people who are distintly of african descent, some Jamacian, and anyone else who's not hispanic, asian, or white.

However, I do agree in general with the rest of your statement, that the portrayal of blacks(and most minorities) in the media is not positive. But this is not merely a white-media problem, for examples: The George Lopez show is pretty much the same sort of family-sitcom you get with people of any race. The characters are the same molds, just not white.

Ever watched BET(Black Entertainment Television)? They're not helping themselves, it presents a terribly stereotyped portrayal of blacks. There's no stuff about blacks acheiving high in education, politics, or anything outside hip-hop, rap, or sports.

Totenkopf
03-01-2008, 04:08 PM
No doubt they would all say.."don't shoot the messenger". Perhaps, though, they should send a different message altogether. I always find it interesting that there is this knee jerk reaction that violence in the media is corrupting, but the glamorization of sex, drugs, misogyny, etc.. are merely realistic portrayals of people's behaviors that don't have an impact on that behavior. Perhaps if the media and pop culture made greater efforts to portray positive achievements by minorities, it might eventually take root. Not a panacea, mind you, but a definite step in the right direction.

millinniummany3
03-01-2008, 06:10 PM
I think it is sad that we have the racial stereotypes of rappers, gangsters, criminals who either through their own actions or through the media are representated of all black people, all people of a particular race or color. Not all African Americans are pimp drug suppliers but the media image is this is something of a stereotype. And what makes things worse is that some do nothing to help bring a positive image. The same as race gangs seem content to continue to push the stereotype of the people their skin color represents a number of those who are meant to be pushing for equality wear their racism (say a black man's racism against white people) on their sleeve, which harms their cause rather than helps it.

Weiser_Cain
03-02-2008, 01:13 AM
Hi, I'm black.
Gangs are about power and money. Race isn't really a factor either way.
Why is this topic back?

Totenkopf
03-02-2008, 02:34 AM
Interesting. Just saw a documentary where they were talking about how hispanics could be part of black gangs till fairly recently. I think that race is part of of the equation b/c it adds an element of shared identity. Btw, not saying they said the exclusion was universal, but at least relevant to things like crips and bloods. How many African Americans are part of MS13?

adamqd
03-02-2008, 07:39 AM
Why is this topic back?

Because it needs to be discussed.

I'm white, and being branded a racist pisses me off, does that in fact make me a racist for not excepting my role as a racist?

millinniummany3
03-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Why's this topic back? Because as uncomfortable as it may be the issue of white racism, black people being racist against white people, must be addressed if we are to work towards equality and reconciliation.

Totenkopf
03-02-2008, 06:43 PM
It's back b/c, like abortion/religion/politics/etc.. people never truly tire of these issues.

SilentScope001
03-02-2008, 06:52 PM
Why's this topic back? Because as uncomfortable as it may be the issue of white racism, black people being racist against white people, must be addressed if we are to work towards equality and reconciliation.

Or, maybe, we shouldn't bother about equality and reconciliation and just bury the hatchet? There is no reason to break open old wounds in order to try to 'heal' them, it just doesn't work. If we 'forget' the issues for the time being, and redirect our resources to more fruitful adventures, the world would be a better place.

We got better things to worry about than try and heal centuries of racial tensions. Like the rise of enemy world powers, global warming, the resurgence of slavery, the national debt...

millinniummany3
03-03-2008, 05:26 AM
I would love that, I would love for us to leave the past in the past. Sadly people on both sides of the conflict raise the issue, it is very much something that is always in our face in my country because indiginous people are given compensation for white settlement, for feeling they are victimized by policy of removing children from poor conditions. We as a country give land back, we make white people to blame for what is done to black people and pass on the sins of the father from generation to generation. White people living today are made responsible for crimes indiginous people lay at them, they are made to apologize and yet they still demand more land, more compensation, that what has been done for them is not enough.

Darth InSidious
03-03-2008, 06:07 AM
We can't leave the past alone - it isn't a sequence of static, immutable past actions - it is an ongoing causative chain with effects here and now - from Qadesh to First Crusade to Stalingrad, all still have there effects today.

JediMaster12
03-03-2008, 12:22 PM
Actually, Poiuy, Arabs are a race, and so are Jews. Not every Jew follows Judaism, and not everyone following Judaism is a Jew.
Let me correct that:

Arabs are an ethnicity, the general categorization based on similar cultural traditions.

A Jew is a religious member, not a race. Judaism is a religious belief. A person coul be an Arab and a Jew but not all Jews are Arab. That is a common misconception of people when they classify Jews as a race. Technically within social science they are not. They are a religious group.
The same thing happened with Hitler and his "master Aryan race." Aryan is actually a language, not the name of a group of people.
See how easy it is to get misconceptions?

The issue of racism cannot be put to rest because it is something that has existed for a long time and will not die out within our lifetime. Sure we have made great strides in terms of equality and justice but the fact is there are still those who cling to those ideals. Funny thing is that while it is a hatred of a particular group, it is based in fear.
People are always afraid of what is different or the unknown. There is reluctance to downright hatred. I could liken it to the example of Green Eggs and Ham but people are not really that simple. We are complex beings capable of rational thought and reasoning, the distinguishment between us and animals. Sometimes it is irrational but that is due to ignorance, stupidity, lack of common sense, you name it.
We keep this topic up because whether we like to admit it or not, it is still out there. Old hatreds die hard and it is hard to change hundreds of years worth of habit.

SilentScope001
03-03-2008, 01:50 PM
I would love that, I would love for us to leave the past in the past.

We can't leave the past alone - it isn't a sequence of static, immutable past actions - it is an ongoing causative chain with effects here and now - from Qadesh to First Crusade to Stalingrad, all still have there effects today.

Leave the past alone? That's not what I am advocating. I am advocating that we have done enough so that the crisis is already solved, and therefore, if we all agree that it's over and focus on more important events in the past, then we will be fine.

Darth InSidious
03-03-2008, 02:00 PM
Leave the past alone? That's not what I am advocating. I am advocating that we have done enough so that the crisis is already solved, and therefore, if we all agree that it's over and focus on more important events in the past, then we will be fine.
Actually, it was more in answer to millinniummany3, who seemed to be advocating just that. :)

Corinthian
03-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Actually, Aryans are both a linguistic sub-branch, as well as referring to Indo-Iranians.

1jrJedismom
03-03-2008, 03:30 PM
As a white person, I get frustrated by the current level of racism where All whites are held responsible for what was done in the past. I do get the "you are a racist" treatment as a returning student at Cal State. I am one of the older students, but I was never a racist. My first crush as a child was on a black boy. Black people have always numbered among my friends. My closest friend is black. I have dated black, Hispanic, Asian as well as white. My sister in law is from Guatemala. My mom worked with Meralee Evers during the 60's on the civil rights issue. She (mom) herself grew up as a share croper picking cotton. So, it hurts to be classified as a racist when I never have been one. Between my best friend (Yes, she is black) and me, we are just buddies. Race has no place in our relationship.

Yes, the different races have had poor treatment by the whites and other races, but lets put the idea that all whites are racist where it belongs, In the trash. If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the ones that are still holding the superior attitude. It goes in all directions, not just white against everyone else.

Reciently, many people in my class jumped all over me for sudgesting that whites are discriminated against too. They were giveing me that guilt card. I was not being politcally correct I guess, when I all I was doing was answering a question the prof. asked. My answer was this issue we are discussing now. Basiclly, that we are being silenced because of "racism" with the "Guilt" card. When I got home I called my friend and asked her to be truthful and tell me if I was in anyway racist. Her reply was "H--- No!" It is a topic in our conversations, because I am confronted so often with the "hatred" of all things white.

I hope someday soon, our county can get past this cloud that is hovering over. I would like to get on with the idea of equality and everyone being treated on their own merit, not what someone's great, great, great, great .........grand parents neighbor did.

Take a look at our history. The first settlers to come here came to get away from discrimination. (religious) And one of them was my ansestor. I found him in my college text. He was a Puritan of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. (I knew his name before, but spoted his name and work in the text. It was fun to see the words of my g.g.g.g.....grand parent and what others said about him.)

millinniummany3
03-03-2008, 05:06 PM
The way I look at it, if you don't want to leave the issue of race and want to keep dredging it up, then let's look at the issue, but part of the issue is white racism as well. How indiginous people lay charges against white people, or play the race card and say how they had been victimized to get their way.

adamqd
03-03-2008, 05:37 PM
There'd be no black comedians if we all stopped hating on each other, what would they talk about?

I don't mind being called a Racist Cracker, if it's in the right context...;)

JediMaster12
03-03-2008, 07:13 PM
The way I look at it, if you don't want to leave the issue of race and want to keep dredging it up, then let's look at the issue, but part of the issue is white racism as well. How indiginous people lay charges against white people, or play the race card and say how they had been victimized to get their way.
That is a sad part of playing the race card. Nothing ticks me off more than when I see that card played on NBC's Law and Order. While not accurate per se it has only fed my impression that the worst predators out there are not the murderers and rapists but the defense attorneys. Hell I admit that is a bias and I know that they are 'just doing their job' but please. Sometimes it has no bearing on the the case at hand and yet it is played.

Also there has to be the context that is taken into account. We laugh like hell at comedians who poke fun at other groups but they are not intending to be offensive. Let me take an example: Jeff Dunham, the ventriloquist. He has a puppet called Walter that is virtually the crabby ole fart that is not PC. One of his acts that he did he had the puppet say that he got the brothers laughing but the cracker was pissed off and they were all laughing like hell. Get this, Jeff is white. The point is that we have double standards whether we like or not regarding race. The comedic turn is one that seems to not offend as much because it is said in the way not to offend. So really it is an ongoing issue mainly because we tend to 'help' it along the way.

Totenkopf
03-03-2008, 08:40 PM
The shame of it is that "doing their job" often has less to do with procuring justice and more with putting another courtroom victory on the notches in their belts. One of the problems with the racism "game" is that if someone from a subgroup doesn't get something (job/etc..) that goes to a member of another group, then that somehow becomes prima facie evidence that they're the victim's of racism. Since there could never be another reason. :rolleyes: It's also a very lucrative game, not to mention a power trip in a pc type of society.

millinniummany3
03-04-2008, 02:10 AM
In all fairness this is how lawyers operate, where they fight dirty to the point where they attack a suspect's character if someone isn't willing to porjur themselves for them. Using a person's skin color is just one of the many dirty tactics they use.

JediMaster12
03-04-2008, 12:29 PM
The shame of it is that "doing their job" often has less to do with procuring justice and more with putting another courtroom victory on the notches in their belts. One of the problems with the racism "game" is that if someone from a subgroup doesn't get something (job/etc..) that goes to a member of another group, then that somehow becomes prima facie evidence that they're the victim's of racism. Since there could never be another reason. :rolleyes: It's also a very lucrative game, not to mention a power trip in a pc type of society.
Couldn't be more right there Tote.
My mother and I were discussing power and how it corrupts. Mostly it was a joke over running for our state legislature. Me personally, I believe work should be rewarded bases on merit. I used to work in fast food and I would hear people say that they needed more hours and they were newbies on the job. My boss then would tell them that you work fast you get more hours. I was in fast food then. Also senority played an issue and your work ethic.

True some things do come if you have connections but you have to prove your worth too. The racist game as you call it, my grandpa and pops would say that it is a means to get something for nothing. Granted my grandpa was speaking about blacks, I get the feeling that is accurate in terms of the racist card being played.

PoiuyWired
03-05-2008, 12:18 AM
Related on the Humor side, strong language related to the topic... kinda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWfa8ChJvH0

adamqd
03-05-2008, 11:17 AM
Notice how they didn't say Black... the closest they got was coloreds, even white "comedy" is pc

JediMaster12
03-06-2008, 02:09 PM
So it's come down to word technicalities?

Just another means of being PC. Something that everyone seems to be caught up in.

adamqd
03-08-2008, 02:02 PM
So it's come down to word technicalities?

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I wanted more slurs against Africans, It's just that they made a point of including every other Race and Creed (Especially Mexicans for some reason) but steered away from black

JediMaster12
03-13-2008, 04:04 PM
I didn't actually read/look at the link but was actually making a sarcastic remark to being PC. I admit myself that I don't use PC terms because quite frankly I find them to be stupid at times in an attempt to be more enveloping of diversity.
Frankly the exclusion can reflect a bias on the part of the person who wrote it. In a way it could be reflective of the fact that the author may be black himself and is unwilling to 'diss' his people but is willing to do so for other groups. I would pull a Mel Brooks picture like Blazing Saddles any day since all groups are up for grabs in the poking fun department concerning race jokes.

Weiser_Cain
03-14-2008, 03:42 PM
The way I look at it, if you don't want to leave the issue of race and want to keep dredging it up, then let's look at the issue, but part of the issue is white racism as well. How indiginous people lay charges against white people, or play the race card and say how they had been victimized to get their way.
If native americans haven't been victimized I don't know who has.

There'd be no black comedians if we all stopped hating on each other, what would they talk about?

I don't mind being called a Racist Cracker, if it's in the right context...;)
I don't know funny stuff? If all you have as a comedian is making fun of them that's a pretty weak act. Note: didn't watch the clip, but I'm not a fan of any race jokes.


Since this topic won't die I'll add my bit (and help keep it alive).
There are two sides to this on the one hand after a certain amount of understanding, and yes guilt, any more is just beating yourself up unnecessarily. You can't help what your ancestors have done, but you do control your actions and amazingly the vast majority of black people don't hate you (certainly not personally, fashionistas excluded). Plus excessive apologies are as awkward to receive as they are to give.

On the other hand I don't trust (to put it mildly) those crusading against the idea that there was (is) something wrong with this country. And I believe most anti PC rhetoric is just because those that would use hate speech want to be able to do it with no consequences and that isn't in my opinion what's best for this country. Would you rather hurt someone's feelings rather than edit yourself?