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lord-nihilus
02-03-2008, 02:49 PM
Who would win well Anakin would sweep the floor with nihilus without breaking a sweat Cuz he destroyed jedi order he killed almost every single one of them + tusken clan + numerous imperial officers and stormtroopers.

Okay lets say Nihilus would as allways use his Úber sucking ability but when he tries to feed on anakin he will explode becuz all that power that is sucked in him. So anakin would emerge to be victorious! :) :) :)

Jasper_Kazai
02-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Is there a point to this thread?

Rev7
02-03-2008, 03:07 PM
You should have put this in the Telos Tourist Bureau (http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=575) since it has to do with Nihilus.
Is there a point to this thread?
He/she just wants to know what our opinions are.

I have no idea who would win in a fight like that. I would probably guess Anakin, mainly because he is the "Chosen One", can be a smart fighter, and has skill with the lightsaber and the force. Darth Nihilus is just "a wound in the force".

igyman
02-03-2008, 03:17 PM
well Anakin would sweep the floor with nihilus without breaking a sweat Cuz he destroyed jedi order he killed almost every single one of them + tusken clan + numerous imperial officers and stormtroopers.
Don't forget that Nihilus wiped out an entire planet of Force users, along with the most powerful Jedi Masters of that time by using his power.

P.S. Yeah, I think this should definitely go to the Telos Tourist Bureau.

Miltiades
02-03-2008, 03:22 PM
I'm still going with the theory that Nihilus can only be defeated by the Exile because she was a wound in the Force, too. So, IMO, Nihilus would kill Anakin.

adamqd
02-03-2008, 04:40 PM
Anakin was also an anomaly, so we don't know how Anakin's 50% Force heritage would react to Nihilus's Powers... Probably not too well, but we'll never know. going on what we've seen, I'll reluctantly give it to Nihilus, although Anakin is far cooler.

lord-nihilus
02-16-2008, 07:02 AM
yep Anakin would beat with nihilus. ~colorful description removed~

I have allways wondered, what does nihilus´s power look like in action i have been thinking is it like a Dementors kiss when persons soul gets sucked into the dementor. That would also explain why nihilus looks like the way he looks: black cape, no eyes
and he feeds off of the living force his mere precense drives people to insane so does dementors precense.

Please refrain from using juvenile language when discussing topics.

~9

Talyn82
02-17-2008, 11:10 PM
First of all Anakin was not at his full potential in Ep III, nor was he ever. If he was, he would have killed Obi Wan, Yoda and Darth Sidious with ease. After all when your the most powerful person in the universe, you don't have to be subservient to anyone.

As for who would win between Anakin/ Vader and Nihilus? I would say Nihilus, because he feeds on the force, and fighting someone who was made up of the force, would be a feast for Nihilus.

Although I think Anakin/ Vader is cooler, Nihilus would destroy him. Only the Exile is capable of defeating Nihilus, since he/ she was a wound in the force.

TKA-001
02-18-2008, 10:31 PM
First of all Anakin was not at his full potential in Ep III, nor was he ever.
The original post already takes this into account.

If he was, he would have killed Obi Wan, Yoda and Darth Sidious with ease.
Power is not the only thing that matters. There's location, proper use of tactics (such as combat forms and application of force powers), and so on.

I'm still going with the theory that Nihilus can only be defeated by the Exile because she was a wound in the Force, too. So, IMO, Nihilus would kill Anakin.
It's not a "theory", it's a fact as seen in TSL. The Exile knew he was the only one immune to Darth Nihilus. Therefore, he's the only one who could defeat him.

The answer to this question is therefore the same as the Revan vs Nihilus thread: Using his super-drain thingy, Nihilus wipes the floor with his opponent. End of story.

Talyn82
02-19-2008, 11:45 PM
The original post already takes this into account.

No it does not. The name of the topic indicates that the OP thinks Anakin was at his full potential in Ep III.

Power is not the only thing that matters. There's location, proper use of tactics (such as combat forms and application of force powers), and so on.

In the prequels we are led to believe that the "Chosen One" is some all powerful uber Jedi, after all he is made up of the force.

If Anakin was at his full potential, no one would have been able to stop him; not Obi Wan, Yoda, or Darth Sidious. He would have became Dark Lord himself and would've gotten his own apprentince.

Anakin is the Chosen One, but he never completed his Jedi or Sith training before Mustafar.

Take Care!

adamqd
02-20-2008, 09:51 AM
There from two different mediums, you'd have to put Nihilus in a film or Anakin in a game not based on the movie depictions of power to get a real answer.

Corinthian
02-20-2008, 11:58 AM
Nihilus would win, despite how much I dislike him. There's no reason why Anakin would survive. Is it stupid? Yes. But that's TSL. Where you can hit a guy with a lightsaber a hundred times and he won't die because he's just that angry.

BaneOfTheSith
02-23-2008, 09:25 PM
As for who would win between Anakin/ Vader and Nihilus? I would say Nihilus, because he feeds on the force, and fighting someone who was made up of the force, would be a feast for Nihilus. Firstly nihilus does NOT feed on the force, he merely kills his victims and feeds on the death he has caused. Kreia herself stated this so no, he does not "feed on the force".

Secondly nihilus destroys the force bond between his victim and the force which the victim dies instantly according to kreia


Although I think Anakin/ Vader is cooler, Nihilus would destroy him. Only the Exile is capable of defeating Nihilus, since he/ she was a wound in the force.
And where was it stated that only the exile could defeat him? Who said you had to be a "wound in the force" to defeat nihilus?

Have you ever heard of the fallanasi technique? One which allows the user to remove himself from the force and mask his force bond completely which would not allow nihilus to drain him, cut him off the force or feed on him in any way?

The yuuzhan vong can beat nihilus seeing that nihilus can't cut off their connection, the fallanasi people can beat nihilus seeing that they have their own technique which masks their force sensitivity and bond which won't allow nihilus to touch it and sure as hell palpatine and luke skywalker are two people whom knew this technique.

By the way NJO luke alone would beat nihilus in a fight comfortably and according to george lucas, the highest form of canon, anakin at FULL potential would be "The most powerful force user ever" and this was stated AFTER kotor and kotor TSL during the realis of revenge of the sith, meaning anakin would have been more powerful than even the already force god NJO luke and darth sidious.

There from two different mediums, you'd have to put Nihilus in a film or Anakin in a game not based on the movie depictions of power to get a real answer. No you don't, you can already get an answer by using logic and debating on the feats they have performed or the statements made by the higher authorities such as george lucas, or any other canon material which in this case according to BOTH canon material and lucas, Anakin at full potential would be far more powerful than nihilus , NJO luke skywalker and even dark empire sidious.

Talyn82
02-23-2008, 11:11 PM
Firstly nihilus does NOT feed on the force, he merely kills his victims and feeds on the death he has caused. Kreia herself stated this so no, he does not "feed on the force".

He doesn't? Then how do you explain the Jedi on Katar? Kreia states that after Nihilus consumes the Jedi then he will consume the Sith, then himself.

And where was it stated that only the exile could defeat him? Who said you had to be a "wound in the force" to defeat nihilus?

Judging by your posts, I can tell you skipped through all the dialogue. If not, you would have known only a wound in the force can defeat him.

As for that other stuff you stated I am not familiar with it, since I don't read any of that EU stuff. The only EU I know is the KOTOR games.

Jvstice
02-23-2008, 11:49 PM
Judging by your posts, I can tell you skipped through all the dialogue. If not, you would have known only a wound in the force can defeat him.

As for that other stuff you stated I am not familiar with it, since I don't read any of that EU stuff. The only EU I know is the KOTOR games.

Actually as far as the Yuzon Vong, he has a point. They are a whole race of aliens with no presence in the force whatsoever, so an ability that feeds on their life force through their connection to the force would be irrelevant to them. He'd be trying to feed on something that just wasn't there. As to whether a technique to mask one's connection to the force would make force powers that drain one of the force, would be the same thing, that's highly speculative, and I could see an arguement either way on that.


As to the rest of what you say, you're pretty much dead on though. It doesn't matter how powerful a Jedi or Sith Lord goes up against Nihilus, its just a bigger meal for him, and the more attuned the individual is to the force, the better it is for Nihilus.

Talyn82
02-24-2008, 12:03 AM
As I've said before I am unfamiliar with most EU content, except for a select games such as the KOTOR games. I have heard of the Yuzon Vong, but I'm not really into post Ep VI books; I'm more into the Old Republic era. I must also state I am not a big fan of Darth Nihilus, but in a fight between him and Anakin, he would consume Anakin.

Also many seem to forget that Nihilus is a slave to his hunger, he has no control over it.

Here's the exact quote from Kreia:

"He cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings… or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well."
―Kreia

Nihilus can consume non Jedi and non Sith, because the force is everywhere. But he gets the most sustenance from the Jedi and Sith.

Take Care!

Jvstice
02-24-2008, 02:18 AM
Actually if I understand correctly, the Yuzan Vong have no midichlorians whatsoever in them, so they are probably a unique case in being Kreia's dream fully realized. They are invisible to the force, and the force isn't in them at all. It has nothing to do with teachings from anything I've heard.

BaneOfTheSith
02-24-2008, 03:13 AM
He doesn't? Then how do you explain the Jedi on Katar? Kreia states that after Nihilus consumes the Jedi then he will consume the Sith, then himself.
Firstly if he feeds on the force, why does he need to goto ALL the way top katarr just to kill a few force sensitives when he could go to dark side rich worlds such as korriban, yavin IV , malachor V or even ziost to drain the dark side force energy which consist of MORE force energies than the hundred jedi on katarr.


Judging by your posts, I can tell you skipped through all the dialogue. If not, you would have known only a wound in the force can defeat him. And apparantly, i did not skip through all the dialogues, considering the fact you do not fully understand the full nature of nihilus attack, YOU skipped the dialogues, NOT me.

Again no where, EVEN in the dialogues was it stated only wounds in the force can defeat him. Hell there is NOTHING to back up this assertion.

Have you heard of the fallanasi people, luke skywalker, darth sidious or darth zannah? They have techniques to counter against nihilus killer techniques and BOTH sidious and luke would TOOL nihilus with little effort considering their status in the force, mastery, knowledge and combat prowess.

Even the mere fallanasi's can defend against nihilus killer technique with their own technique which masks their force sensitivity and hide their bond which nihilus wouldn't be able to destroy, feed, or drain.

As for that other stuff you stated I am not familiar with it, since I don't read any of that EU stuff. The only EU I know is the KOTOR games.Please read the NJO, dark empire and the black fleet crisis, there are people who can counter nihilus abilities and defeat him with not much effort let alone Full potential anakin whom would be twice as powerful as sidious whom could destroy entire fleets with the force and destroy an entire planets surface.




"He cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings… or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well."
―Kreia

Nihilus can consume non Jedi and non Sith, because the force is everywhere. But he gets the most sustenance from the Jedi and Sith.

Take Care!Kreia is fallible FYI, and has she ever met the fallanasi? Has she ever seen the vongs?

Actually if I understand correctly, the Yuzan Vong have no midichlorians whatsoever in them, so they are probably a unique case in being Kreia's dream fully realized. They are invisible to the force, and the force isn't in them at all. It has nothing to do with teachings from anything I've heard. Well firstly if you read the unifying force, the yuuzhan vongs ARE connected to the force, just that they are on a different frequency and has been cut off the force completely thousands of years ago.

Talyn82
02-24-2008, 12:03 PM
Firstly if he feeds on the force, why the hell does he need to goto ALL the way top katarr just to kill a few force sensitives when he could go to dark side rich worlds such as korriban, yavin IV , malachor V or even ziost to drain the dark side force energy which consist of MORE force energies than the hundred jedi on katarr.

Didn't Atris or Visas say, the reason why he went to Katar was because most of the Jedi were there? If I was Darth Nihilus and I found that out, I'd drag my ship over there as well. Besides maybe he gets more sustenance from living beings as opposed to left over energy. Anyway eventually he would have gone to the planets you mentioned as a last resort.

Again no where, EVEN in the dialogues was it stated only wounds in the force can defeat him. Hell there is NOTHING to back up this assertion.

Is that so? Then why didn't the other Jedi such as Vrook confront him? Instead they waited for someone else to finish the job.

Did you fight Nihilus? If so that's all the prove you need. What happened when he tried to feed on the exile? he got owned by a blind Sith and a Mandalorian. Nihilus is nothing more than a Force Vampire, with a halloween costume on.

Here read up on him on Wookiepedia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nihilus

adamqd
02-24-2008, 12:19 PM
No you don't, ~snip~yawn~.

Yes I do, it's My opinion. And yes you can compare facts as you say, but we know full well that the films don't show the Force or feats anywhere near as powerful as the EU stuff,

Anakin: pretty descent swordsman, cant jump high enough, prone to intolerable pain and anguish (Often self inflicted) Force intermitantly with him, G canon

Nihilus: Force Ghost/Anomaly, hold's star destroyer together without thought, can suck the Force from entire planets and people, create force Zombies, ridicules, C canon

Forgetting canon and common sense, nihilus would obviously destroy Anakin, secondly we all know what Lucas' thoughts on the power hierarchy are... so Anakin wins

ps: I hate Nihilus :D

BaneOfTheSith
02-25-2008, 03:50 AM
Didn't Atris or Visas say, the reason why he went to Katar was because most of the Jedi were there? If I was Darth Nihilus and I found that out, I'd drag my ship over there as well. Besides maybe he gets more sustenance from living beings as opposed to left over energy. Anyway eventually he would have gone to the planets you mentioned as a last resort. WRONG, he would get more sustenance by draining a dark side RICH world rather than a few hundred jedi IF he actually COULD drain the force.

And IF he needed a last resort which he clearly does not, he could have gone strait to korriban rather than to telos for one mere insignificant jedi.

Again kreia and visas says your wrong, they stated that nihilus DESTROYS the force bond between his victims and the force which KILLS them instantly, Hell the jedi exile had the same ability to feed on other peoples death. Nowhere it's stated that he drains the force.

Hell the only two force users whom could actually drain pure force energy is Darth sidious and marka ragnos with the aid of his scepter.



Is that so? Then why didn't the other Jedi such as Vrook confront him? Instead they waited for someone else to finish the job. Because vrook and the rest of the council save for revan and exar kun are utter weaklings.

Did you fight Nihilus? If so that's all the prove you need. What happened when he tried to feed on the exile? he got owned by a blind Sith and a Mandalorian. Nihilus is nothing more than a Force Vampire, with a halloween costume on. Uh wow he tried to feed on some one, it fails so it means the exile is a force god and there for it means ONLY the exile can beat him, GREAT logic.

Then i guess the fallanasi whom could counter his ability would OWN him because they have an actual defence to his abilities and able to completely remove themselves from the force which BOTH sidious and luke can do.

So no, the exile is NOT the only one who can beat him, hell i can make a case for revan, he plundered both korriban and malachor V hence he has MASSIVE force knowledge 2nd to only sidious and seeing that revan has studied sith magic, he too has a defence against nihilus attack.


Here read up on him on Wookiepedia:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nihilus Ok, And guess what, wookiepedia states palpatine > nihilus, wookiepedia states Full potential anakin > nihilus.

Yes I do, it's My opinion. And yes you can compare facts as you say, but we know full well that the films don't show the Force or feats anywhere near as powerful as the EU stuff, Simply b/c the movies don't show a characters full potential, its the EU which does that. Hell and going by the movies and novels its enough to prove that mere ROTS anakin would destroy nihilus in a duel whereas losing a force fight but FP anakin is different, i'll explain why in a few moments.

Anakin: pretty descent swordsman, cant jump high enough, prone to intolerable pain and anguish (Often self inflicted) Force intermitantly with him, G canon
Ever heard of luke skywalker?

These are the feats he performed.

Force Sense

* During the Battle of Yavin, Luke managed to destroy the first Death Star by letting the Force tell him when to fire his proton torpedoes, while traveling at very high speeds, and not knowing the distance to the port, and having no previous knowledge of proton torpedoes and their abilities. One should note that Luke only had little training with the Force at this time.

* Luke managed to land a crashing Imperial Star Destroyer, with almost no loss of life, on Coruscant by allowing the Force to guide him at the Liberator's controls, mirroring a similar achievement by his father towards the end of the Clone Wars.[104][105][106]

Force Attunement

* Without any guidance except a handbook left by Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker successfully built his first lightsaber, merely three years after he was first introduced to the Force, and undergoing formal training for less than a year.

* Only a short time after being given a lightsaber by Obi-Wan, Luke was able to instinctively block several blaster bolts fired in rapid succession by a remote, despite his lack of prolonged formal training.

Telekinesis

* Luke safely landed himself, Isolder, and Isolder's fighter from a free fall drop from orbit with the Force.

* During the Battle of Dathomir, Luke flew the Millennium Falcon single-handedly using only the Force, manipulating its controls and operating it with a skill that not even a full crew could manage.

* Luke was able to knock down a crippled AT-AT by pressing against it with the Force; he also absorbed the initial cannon blasts from the AT-AT, before deflecting the rest with his lightsaber.[104][105]

* During the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke used the Force to rebuild Darth Vader's old fortress on Coruscant and made it invisible.[107] In addition, Luke used the Force to crush the rebuilt fortress of Darth Vader to rubble, shattering the building piece by piece and throwing it into the oceans of Coruscant.[108]

* During the Battle of Dantooine of the Yuuzhan Vong War, Luke tricked a vehicle's dovin basals into colliding its own void (black hole) against itself by using the Force to hold the void against the pull of the dovin basals; then reversing the direction of his own pull, adding it to the pull of the dovin basals, so that the void would collide against the spine of the vehicle.[82]

Revitalize

* In the battle between the Singing Mountain Clan and the Nightsisters, Luke was almost fatally wounded by a Force attack by Gethzerion and a deep fall, but regenerated in the span of mere hours.

Droid Disable

* Luke also destroyed a group of hot-wired battle droids just by waving his hand, subtly displacing their master servos and causing the self-destruction of the group of droids.[104][105] This Force power was first manifested by Jedi Master Arca Jeth during the Great Droid Revolution. Even then, with proper instruction, it was a difficult power to master. However, this power apparently came naturally to Luke.

Force Protection

* During the time when he was re-creating the Jedi Order and was searching for potential candidates, he walked on lava while still throbbing with the Force after defeating a Fireworm living in the lava just moments before.[57] Luke's performance impressed Gantoris so much that he decided to become Luke's apprentice. It should be noted that while the temperature near a lava lake normally is extreme (hundreds of °C), there was a crowd of abandoned colonists in tattered clothing waiting at the bank of the lava, suggesting that the feat was not so remarkable after all.

* During the Eye of Palpatine incident, Luke subconsciously used his Force powers to overcome a particularly vicious form of brainwashing.

Telepathy

* During the Death Seed Plague, Luke used the Force to communicate with the sentient crystals Tsils. It is important to remember that the more dissimilar the type of mind, the more difficult it is to communicate with via the Force.

* Toward the end of the Swarm War, Luke used the Force to call all the Jedi across the galaxy to Ossus to make the announcement of him taking on the role as Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and to issue his views about the role of the Order to his Jedi.

Protection Bubble

* Luke could generate a Force shield to deflect blaster fire.

Force Illusion

* While searching for the kidnapped Solo children, Luke used the Force to create an illusion over his face in order to disguise his identity. He would later reuse this trick on Yoggoy.

* After the crisis, with new found knowledge from the White Current, Luke removed the Teljkon Vagabond from view using the Force; however he admitted that he did not know how long it would last.

* After the Black Fleet Crisis, Luke taught the combined White Current/the Force illusion skill to his more experienced students, which would help shield the entire moon Yavin 4 from intruders during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

* During the early days of the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke used the Force to generate a lifelike copy of the Jade Shadow to fool the attacking dartships. This usage of the Force was so extreme, Luke burnt out and his face was temporarily sunken and shriveled like Palpatine's. A year later Luke applied the same trick on the DR919a, by then Luke already mastered the technique and would no longer burn out.

Force Ghost

* During the Kueller crisis, Luke prepared himself for death in such a way that he would become a Force ghost.

* Upon death, Luke was able to retain his consciousness in the Netherworld of the Force, and could henceforth manifest himself in spirit form.

Force Enlightenment

* The narration described Luke during the Battle of Yuuzhan'tar as a maelstrom of Force energy, a Force storm against which there was no shelter. So calm and focused that his actions were not interrupted by any thought. Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality. Luke's control over his lightsaber blade was so great that he was said to might as well have been wielding ten, or twenty lightsabers against the Vong.[94] The Solo twins were astounded seeing their uncle in such a state.

Electric Judgment

* Luke used a powerful and unique ability of the Force related to his signature green Electric Judgment in the chamber of Shimrra Jamaane. This technique had been described to look like "green sparks," which instantly killed the Slayer.

Force Defend

* While battling UnuThul, Luke was able to resist the combined Force power of the Colony and triumph. When UnuThul attempted to Force Push the Grand Master, Luke rooted himself in the heart of the Force so strongly that it was said that he had become the very essence of the immovable object, and that not even the black hole at the center of the galaxy could not move him.[95]

Force Healing

* On only the trip back to Hapes after the duel, Luke used a Jedi healing trance to heal most of the damage caused by Lumiya.

Force Stasis

* During the battle of Kuat, Luke was able to use the Force to such a degree that he didn't even have to move to immobilize Jacen. It is important to note that Jacen was at this time a full Sith Lord, and he still couldn't break free.

Force Concealment

* During the Battle of Kashyyyk, Luke shut his presence down after being fired upon by Jaina to make it seem like he died. Later while Ben was in the Embrace of Pain, Jacen gave Ben back his ability to sense the Force temporarily and Ben felt the life force of his father and realized Luke was shutting himself down to everyone except Ben, something no other Jedi has been able to do.

Master Lightsaber Combatant

* Luke Skywalker's use of Form V is probably as much instinctive as trained. On Bespin, Luke revealed that he was an extraordinarily gifted duelist after only one brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi and a short time of study with Yoda. After that fateful duel, Luke studied some lightsaber skills from Kenobi's journal and greatly advanced his abilities. Without a Master, it was Luke's unparalleled aptitude, which contributed in the impossible advancement of his skills. Onboard the second Death Star, Luke mirrored Darth Vader's own Form V technique and responded with his own furious demonstration of Form V's raw power. Observing swordsmen such as Palpatine might be astonished at such instantaneous learning in a lightsaber duel. Finally, Luke was able to duel Vader on an even footing, and defeated the experienced Dark Lord. However, Luke's particular form of lightsaber combat may in the end be something entirely new, with traces of Form III, Form IV and Form V mixed together with his own techniques. It is doubtful that Kenobi and Yoda had time to actually teach him the finer points of the combat Forms. Just like most other things about being a Jedi Knight, Luke probably had to figure out whole new fighting styles to replace the ones lost during the Great Jedi Purge. It is also probable that the Jensaarai would have passed on knowledge of the lightsaber forms of the Old Jedi Order since their founders were former Jedi Knights and Padawans. He also mastered the strong style, a form of lightsaber combat that resembles Djem So that is used in the New Jedi Order.[68][58]

* Luke's abilities with a lightsaber and the Force allowed him to fight his way through countless Yuuzhan Vong warriors in the Sacred Precinct. After defeating numerous Yuuzhan Vong warriors in the Citadel Luke defeated more than five Slayers; while Kyp Durron, one of the most powerful Jedi of his time, could not best even the Slayers who were exposed to Alpha Red. Afterwards, Luke slew Supreme Overlord Shimrra Jamaane, who was stated to be the best warrior of the Yuuzhan Vong, despite just being injured by the poison of the Scepter of Power.

* Inverse Dun Moch: Luke applied the very opposite of Dun Möch on board the second Death Star by infusing love into Darth Vader's heart through spoken words. The young Jedi was successful—Anakin Skywalker ultimately redeemed himself and brought balance to the Force.

* Cho mai: Luke managed to defeat the reborn Emperor Palpatine in a lightsaber duel, slicing off his hand with cho mai. It should be noted that Palpatine was perhaps one of the best swordsmen in lightsaber history, and even Yoda, Luke's own master, was unable to defeat him. Leia, who was watching the fight, could hardly see the movements of Luke and the Emperor, but she sensed waves of power generating from them—dark from the Emperor, and light from Luke.[105]

* Ninman/Jar'Kai: Luke displayed his amazing dueling skills with dual blades during the Yuuzhan Vong War. Regardless of receiving formal Jar'Kai training or not, Luke proved to be one of the best dual blades-duelists in his era.

* Right after a battle with UnuThul, wounded and using only his left hand to hold a lightsaber, Luke defeated Lomi Plo, who was wielding two lightsabers.

* Luke defeated his son in a sparring match without even igniting his lightsaber, and for part of the duel, without taking a step at all.

* Despite sustaining severe chest injuries from a lightwhip, including lung damage, and the loss of his prosthetic right arm, Luke continued to duel Lumiya, eventually defeating her.

* After Mara's death, Luke fought Lumiya with only his lightsaber and still was victorious.

* Luke dueled Jacen in one on one combat and eventually defeated him, only sparing him because if he finished him Ben would be lost to the Dark Side.

* Darth Caedus considered himself the greatest lightsaber duelist in the galaxy, except for Luke, who he considered possibly the greatest lightsaber duelist there ever was. This is a startling admittion, coming from the now Dark Lord of the Sith.

And just to add to that....

He used the force to rip star destroyers apart and carved through THOUSANDS of yuuzhan.

And NJO luke is obviously the most powerful being in star wars and according to george lucas, anakin at FULL potential would be TWICE as powerful as Dark empire sidious and more powerful than luke skywalker.

So basically he at his full potential is MORE powerful than 2 people whom would handle revan and nihilus with little effort.


Nihilus: Force Ghost/Anomaly, hold's star destroyer together without thought, can suck the Force from entire planets and people, create force Zombies, ridicules, C canon
Firstly prove he can suck the force from planets when he was never stated to be able to do that, HELL if he could drain the force, malachor yavin, ziost and korriban would be VOID of force energy, they contain MORE force energy than 100 weak jedi on katarr.

Secondly he can't create force zombies, you will have to prove it.
[/QUOTE]


Forgetting canon and common sense, nihilus would obviously destroy Anakin, secondly we all know what Lucas' thoughts on the power hierarchy are... so Anakin wins

Actually WITH common sense AND canon: FP anakin > luke skywalker > sidious > exar kun > revan > nihilus and the fact that NJO luke skywalker is a god and Anakin at full potential would obviously be more powerful than him, Anakin at FP >>>> nihilus, and YES, it IS ownage.

adamqd
02-25-2008, 04:30 AM
^^
Ok friend calm down, I dont agree at all, but this same argument has been fought and discussed over and over for years involving these and other characters, and I cant be bothered to prepare an essay to counter your claims. You win by default :)

but while I'm here, your basing your arguments on comics and novels VS Films, which I dont do so I cant argue with you anyway.

also what does... Actually WITH common sense AND canon: FP anakin > luke skywalker > sidious > exar kun > revan > nihilus and the fact that NJO luke skywalker is a god and Anakin at full potential would obviously be more powerful than him, Anakin at FP >>>> nihilus, and YES, it IS ownage.... actually mean?! state your sources and reasoning (Without net speak abbreviation crap)

BaneOfTheSith
02-25-2008, 06:33 AM
^^
Ok friend calm down, I dont agree at all, but this same argument has been fought and discussed over and over for years involving these and other characters, and I cant be bothered to prepare an essay to counter your claims. You win by default :) You don't have to agree but this is star wars canon, canon states full potential anakin skywalker would even defeat the already force god NJO luke skywalker and emperor palpatine.

but while I'm here, your basing your arguments on comics and novels VS Films, which I dont do so I cant argue with you anyway. Well novels VS films IS possible but we can't just use films as back up stand alone, if i were to debate on anakins skill with the saber the first thing i would take out would be the Revenge of the sith novel which is clearly G-canon because it fully elaborates on the current situation.

If i were to use ROTS sidious i would take out the new essential chronology as backup, If i were to debate yoda and windu i too would not only use the movies but the novel as well because the movies alone are not sufficient enough to make a case which is why i use other sources when i debate.



also what does... ... actually mean?! state your sources and reasoning (Without net speak abbreviation crap)[/QUOTE] Sidious is the number one sith lord according to NUMEROUS sources and feats , there is far too much evidence for anybody to even attempt to argue against this.

Fact : lucas stated in an interview had anakin sustained none of his injuries on mustafar, he would be twice as powerful as darth sidious whom is already far more powerful than both nihilus and revan , could destroy entire fleets with the force, has the most powerful dark side ability and mastered every aspect of the force and has been stated to be the most powerful sith lord by countless sources including in-universe characters like the ancient sith.

A quote by wookiepedia which is backed up by george lucas : If he had reached his full potential, he would have become the most powerful being in both Jedi and Sith history

^ This literally means he would have become more powerful than every single jedi and sith in the 25 000 years history of star wars had he sustained none of his injuries in mustafar. This means he would have already been twice as powerful as the current most powerful dark lord of the sith emperor palpatine.

adamqd
02-25-2008, 07:04 AM
I know well and agree with the various sources about Anakins potential, from Lucas among others, I just dont know how it can be proven or explained without being too vague,
specially when he's "theoretically" at full potential, facing a game character :)

I dont discount your finding's (which I know well from my extensive EU collection and years of Fandom) I just See the EU as Chris Cerasi does, which IMO makes comparison hard...

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.

"The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.

"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.'"

ps: I got the Force Zombie thing from the mental and Physical appearance of Nihilus' lackeys on the Ravager (which are actually called force Zombies in the files and folders for TSL on the PC)

Nihilus' power: "His reach in the Force eventually extended to a point where he could feel Force users throughout the galaxy, cleanse "entire planets", killing everything that was touched by the Force. Prolonged use of this power made him a threat to all life, as his hunger grew as well. He was a wound in the Force, his mere presence casting echoes that would slowly kill all around him, feeding him. His very speech caused pain and death to all who heard it. The ones who served him, in time, like his crew on the Ravager, became utter slaves".

BaneOfTheSith
02-25-2008, 08:19 AM
I know well and agree with the various sources about Anakins potential, from Lucas among others, I just dont know how it can be proven or explained without being too vague,
specially when he's "theoretically" at full potential, facing a game character :)
Well it can be proven easily, he would be twice as powerful as dark empire sidious according to lucas, just imagine being twice as powerful as somebody whom could destroy a planets durface, destroy space and time while wiping out the entire rebel fleet at the same time.

Again, anakin can be compared to a game character simply due to the statements which has been made about him, infact it wouldn't be difficult.

A case can actually be made of anakin as of ROTS(Not full potential), destroying nihilus in a saber duel fairly easily. Let me elaborate how, first and foremost we know nothing of nihilus combat prowess with the lightsaber, we don't know which form he uses or how proficient is he in the lightsaber art.

Secondly anakin tooled and made (according to the movie novel) dooku's experience, skill, mastery and knowledge of the both the force and saber dueling a joke by merely deciding to win and take dooku seriously, this is famously known as "crystal clear anakin" and mind you that dooku's combat prowess with the lightsaber is alot greater than nihilus, dooku mastered form 2 to its highest degree and was stated to be "one of the most powerful jedi in the entire jedi history and an even greater sith lord".

And when anakin fought clearly and with focus, he tooled somebody THAT powerful in 12 seconds in a lightsaber duel. Thats how it can be argued that he does the same to somebody(nihilus) inferior to both dooku and anakin in the saber art.

Force wise, nihilus would tool anakin as of revenge of the sith, but by the time he would achieve his full potential, he would have become even more powerful and surpass force users like revan, sidious and luke skywalker meaning he would effortlessly dispatch nihilus.


I dont discount your finding's (which I know well from my extensive EU collection and years of Fandom) I just See the EU as Chris Cerasi does, which IMO makes comparison hard... Firstly Chris Cerasi does not define or establish canon, mr leland chee does and LFL does. Its official both EU and movie palpatine is far more powerful than nihilus, and the fact that anakin at his peak would be twice as powerful.

The movies are merely on a higher level of canon, as are the movie novels.



ps: I got the Force Zombie thing from the mental and Physical appearance of Nihilus' lackeys on the Ravager (which are actually called force Zombies in the files and folders for TSL on the PC) Well the term "force zombie" isn't canon as it is not stated in the most recent book "essential guide to the force". Well it isn't called force zombies, he merely corrupted a few people to do his slave work.

Nihilus' power: "His reach in the Force eventually extended to a point where he could feel Force users throughout the galaxy, cleanse "entire planets",
Cleansing entire planets does not equate to draining the planet itself. It is likely referring to cleansing whats ON the planet.

His very speech caused pain and death to all who heard it. The ones who served him, in time, like his crew on the Ravager, became utter slaves". Now this is one thing i don't believe, yes it came from wookipedia which can be used in debates but what backs it up? We have seen him speak yet the mandalorians onboard the ravager were unaffected .

adamqd
02-25-2008, 10:47 AM
I didn't say Chris Cerasi defines canon, I said I see it like he does, as I've said before this is my opinion, things do exist in the continuity that contradict each other, canon isn't perfect by a long shot.

I own all the essential guides, and just because something isn't mentioned it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

a planet (In most cases) is a large rock, when I say he drains planets, I mean he drains all the force on that planet people animals etc, dont misquote me

Don't tell me what can and cant be used to debate with.

by definition, nature, power and feats Nihilus would beat Anakin because thats what he does, force users have no defense unless they are a wound in the force, GL's statements about a FP Anakin being the all powerful contradict this, which is why you cant really compare them fairly

Jvstice
02-25-2008, 12:41 PM
Exactly. Anakin would definitely be more powerful by every measure, but Nihilus has a technique against which, in Kreia's words "there is no defense."

Talyn82
02-25-2008, 05:51 PM
To Bane of the Sith:

Wow! It's really sad you take this stuff so seriously, I mean don't you have something better to do than argue someone you don't know? I admit I found it amusing how someone can get worked up over this, but not it's just sad. This is fantasy who cares who's right or who's wrong.


Keep it civil, everyone. --Jae

BaneOfTheSith
02-26-2008, 04:20 AM
I didn't say Chris Cerasi defines canon, I said I see it like he does, as I've said before this is my opinion, things do exist in the continuity that contradict each other, canon isn't perfect by a long shot. Ok then.

I own all the essential guides, and just because something isn't mentioned it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Which in this case it doesn't as there is nothing to back you up.

a planet (In most cases) is a large rock, when I say he drains planets, I mean he drains all the force on that planet people animals etc, dont misquote me Then you have me sincere apologies, i was mostly rambling this to talyn.


by definition, nature, power and feats Nihilus would beat Anakin because thats what he does, force users have no defense unless they are a wound in the force,
Again i'll ask and continue to do so until you prove up. WHERE was it stated that only "wounds" in the force can defend against his attack?

I guess you have not read the black fleet crisis where there is a technique which ACTUALLY defends against his attack ergo the fallanasi technique which MANY force users has mastered: luke skywalker, yoda , darth caedus, darth sidious , tholme and possibly mace windu?

By defination, nature, power and according to the supreme establisher of canon, Anakin at FP would DESTROY nihilus. Firstly do you even know canon policy where what lucas says = the undisputed fact and highest authority?

Again anakin at FULL potential would be MORE than twice the power of nihilus MEANING he would be able to conjure up an even better defence than the fallanasi technique and he would be able to do MORE damage than even what emperor palpatine did with the dark side of the force.

What part of this don't you understand? Why do you keep insisting that nihilus would beat FP anakin when its stated FP anakin is far superior to everybody else by a very large margin?

~snipped~


GL's statements about a FP Anakin being the all powerful contradict this, which is why you cant really compare them fairly
Gl's statement contradicts nothing as he is the undisputed highest form of canon which overwrites ANYTHING in the EU.

There is far too much evidence to put FP anakin an even more powerful and more lethel being that nihilus ever can be for anybody to argue against.

Exactly. Anakin would definitely be more powerful by every measure, but Nihilus has a technique against which, in Kreia's words "there is no defense."
And sadly kreia has never met luke skywalker, darth sidious or the fallanasi people where they have actual defences against this technique.

To Bane of the Sith:

Wow! It's really sad you take this stuff so seriously, I mean don't you have something better to do than argue someone you don't know? I admit I found it amusing how someone can get worked up over this, but not it's just sad. This is fantasy who cares who's right or who's wrong. ~snipped~ The thing is i don't take it seriously, i just merely state whats canon which is backed up by numerous sources, i am merely proving you wrong which in this case you really are.


Good to see you again, Sephira. Have a nice day. --Jae

adamqd
02-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I agree with what your saying Bane, but what I'm trying to say is, Yes, Lucas is the ultimate canon I know this fact well, but do you think he even knows who Nihilus is? Does he know all these DE Sidious, Luke NJO, obscure details and powers you constantly quote? I very much doubt it.

I should of put TSL contradicts Lucas as he is the master, but the point still stands.

I remember an interview with Sue Rostoni of Lucas licensing, she said that when it came time to continue the story of Luke Skywalker, she "Informed" him that he would marry Mara, and he wasn't even told about Ben being born. He has very little Knowledge or input of the EU, the Ruusan reformation/Palpatines line in AOTC Retcon is a good example of this. fp Anakin can beat Nihilus because Lucas said so, not because he pondered the match up...
Yes Canonically fp Anakin owns anyone ever, but evidence doesn't portray this.

side note: The essential guide to the force has a few discrepancies in it, like dates in the time-line, ie; It states that Vos recovered the Holocron of Darth Andeddu a year before AOTC, when in fact its 7 1/2 months into the Clone Wars, there are various other mistakes with names and dates, and thats the latest canon. Thats why I take everything with a pinch of salt

Besides this is a comment from Lucas about a theoretical FP Anakin, this has never been put on paper or made into a film so you can't canonize it.
If Lucas rolled over in his sleep and shouted "luke dies in 4 ABY" during a nightmare, does that mean we have to Retcon Dark Empire, NJO, LOTF?

What I'm trying to say is your right to a degree, but its not as clean cut as you make out.

TKA-001
02-26-2008, 01:13 PM
If Lucas rolled over in his sleep and shouted "luke dies in 4 ABY" during a nightmare, does that mean we have to Retcon Dark Empire, NJO, LOTF?
That actually wouldn't be very bad.

Emperor Devon
02-26-2008, 07:21 PM
GUYZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ HELP ME FIND OUT WOULD SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #1 WIN AGAINST SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #2?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!?

Jae Onasi
02-26-2008, 07:37 PM
GUYZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ HELP ME FIND OUT WOULD SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #1 WIN AGAINST SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #2?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!?

*Jae spews Diet Pepsi all over the monitor*

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

adamqd
02-27-2008, 05:06 AM
GUYZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ HELP ME FIND OUT WOULD SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #1 WIN AGAINST SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #2?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!?

Guffaw!

Were trying to Brainiac

RedHawke
02-27-2008, 06:08 AM
GUYZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ HELP ME FIND OUT WOULD SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #1 WIN AGAINST SUBJECTIVE FICTIONAL ENTITY #2?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!?
This post wins... thread over!