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JediMaster12
02-18-2008, 12:43 PM
As a student, having received a BA and now working towards a Masters degree, I know the pain of tuition fees. I consider myself lucky and blessed that I can commute and live at home and not have to pay room and board. What really has my clams steamed, for lack of a better description, is the fact that higher education seems to be last on the list at the federal and state level.

What I am talking about is the tuition fee increases that I have seen and felt in my pocket for the last six years. Since I transfered in 2004 to my local CSU in San Bernardino, I have read of at least 10% fee increases over the years and I am peeved. We hear of our 'brilliant' political leaders speak of making education more accessible but who are they kidding? With the reduction in the state budget to education the universities have no choice, even with increased enrollment and some plans include turning away some 11,000 potential freshman. We tell our kids that they can go to college but how can they?

The CSU budget request for 2008-09 academic year calls for $4.8 billion to address the critical areas of faculty, facilities and resources. It does not call for a fee increase but if the request is not approved, the fee hike is necessary. True the CSU is the lowest in California for tuition compared to the UC and private institutions but the potential danger that the state govt. doesn't consider higher education a priority (building that big wall is) is a looming threat.
Article: CSU 2008-09 Budget Request (http://www.calstate.edu/PA/news/2007/budget_request.shtml)

At the federal level there seems to be some good news regarding federal aid like the increase of the Pell Grant, which saved my butt at a $30,000/yr institution. Unfortunately there seems to be a cost to other government prgorams. Some involve a reshuffling or a redraft of the entire infrastructure.
Article: President Budget 2008 (http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/02/06/edbudget)

Still though it doesn't seem like it is enough especially with the rise of high school students who want to go to college. Yeah there are scholarships out there but most of the community ones are $500. Yeah every little bit helps especially at private universities like Loyola in Chicago or Harvard but if fees increase, then what would be the point. Loans help out sure but remember you have to pay them back and be especially timely with the Perkins Loan. Funny thing is that a classmate told my that Bush approved for more military spending, more than the education budget further putting us in the hole with our trillion dollar deficit. Oh yes searching WMDs are more important but news flash, they don't exist. Yeah education is important but only for the privileged, rich white folk right?

1jrJedismom
02-18-2008, 03:24 PM
Tuition is hard to come by for everyone. Well Mostly. As a member of the white population, tuition is hard for me too. Just think, I have two kids to put through school on Disability. Yes, It does make grants more available for them, but they will also be expected to work their way through and take student loans that will take them who know how long to pay off. I tell you, It is a frightening prospect.

Rev7
02-18-2008, 03:47 PM
Yes college is very expensive. It certainly doesn't look like the price is going to go down, so I guess that I will have to just have to ride it out, of course when I get to that point in my life. Unfortunatly.

DeadYorick
02-18-2008, 03:51 PM
I am already saving up for tuition fees. But hey at least when Bush is out of office maybe the next president will change things around. Maybe focus on population control. Since that is a huge factor now.

Anyway I would probably get a student loan. But the problem with them and this is the way colleges make more money is that they accumulate interest. Meaning if you get a 1000 dollar loan by the time you are done your course it could be up to 1200 dollars. This is why most of the world is corrupt. People are always trying to get more money

mimartin
02-18-2008, 04:28 PM
First off, I am not arguing your point. I have actually been there and done that. I understand and you have my sympathy.

We tell our kids that they can go to college but how can they?Juror College. Yes, I know it does not have the prestige of many universities, but once they go on to get their next degree no one cares about the underlining degree or where they spent the first two years.

Being on both sides of the company hiring strategy we do not care where their associatesí degree came from, we only care that they persevered and excelled in competing their degrees.

I did not do that well my first two years of college I still believed partying was more important than studying. However, once I started at a four-year college and made a death bed promises my GPA increased to around 3.83 for my junior and senior years. I never intended on continuing past my B.S, but after being offered a partial scholarship, I went on for my Masters Degree. I was lucky in that I commuted and only took night classes as I worked fulltime throughout my academic life. I never took any financial aid, not from lack of trying, but because I could not qualify due to my stepfatherís income. Now I am actually glad, as once I was finished with school all but a few thousand dollars was paid for.

The government talks a good talk, but no one will ever convince me that they really care about its citizenís education. I remember in the 80ís the high school busing kids over to the local junior college so they sign up for college and be grandfathered before the President and Congress took away their right for a college education through Social Security. Yes, at one time, if a parent paid into Social Security and was died before collecting the money the money paid into Social Security would still be spent on the deceased's child. Then the same President and Congress robed the surplus in Social Security to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. Stealing from widows and orphans is always a nice political strategy.
Yeah education is important but only for the privileged, rich white folk right? I would have fit in this category, but if your stepfather will not pay for your education are you still rich white folk?

Education is important no matter your race or sex. I will say there is an added feeling of accomplishment when you are waiting to walk and knowing that you did this despite what got in your way. Some get through more easily than others do not begrudge them of that. You will get through easier than someone else that will not even get the opportunities you have received. Be proud of yourself for what youíve accomplished and thankful that it was not any harder.

Good Luck!

Arcesious
02-18-2008, 05:11 PM
I know what you mean. I and my family will never be able to afford college, considering that my parents make only 60,000 a year, and I make only about 15,000 a year working at Burger King... I hate labor laws, because I'm not allowed to work as many hours as I'd like to just because I'm not 18 yet. I want to go to college, and be able to get a better job, but I'll never be able to afford it unless if a miracle happens. I don't want to get into debt with loans either... America sucks because of that.

HIGH ON PIE 14
02-18-2008, 05:40 PM
This frustrates me too. Stupid labor laws. They complain that American kids are fat and lazy but when we want to work more they say no. They really should get their act together. I'm still in high school but already its hurting me. Thanks to the labor laws I cant work long enough to make any real money, so I have to load up on A.P. classes in order to get college credit and hopefully a scholarship of some kind.

Yes hopefully the new pres will make thing better cause I've pretty much had it with A.P.s and dread taking any more of them. :headbump

JediMaster12
02-18-2008, 06:17 PM
mimartin: You should be proud of your accomplishments. Heck I am damn proud of my mother who graduated near forty, got her teaching credential, new teaching job and completed a master's degree. The comment I made was more or less sarcasm because of the sterotype of Republicans being pennypinchers.
I am glad that I could make and grateful and blessed that I don't have $30,000 in loans but only about $4,000. I know that it will be harder the higher I go and more jumping through hoops to get what you need.

I do have a praise for the fact that there are the state, Pell and any other grants and scholarships out there. I have heard of some that are really funny like kniting. If you can knit you can get a scholarship. If you are a leftie you can get a scholarship. No joke there. Maybe there is money out there but you have to look for it. I guess that is where the test of character comes in when you decide how serious you are about pursuing a college education.

Arcesious: If labor laws now are so bad, think about what it was like at the beginning of the century when industrialization hit the U.S. Guess who was working the factories to help their familes, children no more than 8 or 9. They usually worked 12hrs Monday thru Sat and maybe 10 on Sunday. There was no minimum wage then. Best they would get would be maybe 50 cents per day, for 12hrs of work. You tell me that our system is not fair?
You say you don't want to go into debt with your loans. There are two different kinds of loans: federal subsidized and unsubsidized. I cannot name the one I have for $2,150 but the interest is getting paid off if I remember correctly. Also with any federal loan, they are deferred up until 30 or 60 days after graduation. You consolidate your loans and they will stay at the initial interest percent you started with. Loans are not bad if you use the money wisely. Give back what you don't need and keep what is necessary for tuition. Apply online your FAFSA, the federal aid form, and it will automatically enter you in the federal grant system for consideration as long as you check the box.
You say you may not be able to go to college. As mimartin said, junior college is not bad. My mother completed her GE units there and transferred to CSU San Bernardino. I recommended junior college to my lil bro because he needs to make the transition from high school to college easier. Some of my cousins went that route. Believe it or not most JC's, at least the ones near my home are about $13-18 per unit, run on a semester or quarter system. When I took some GE's there, units, I paid about $200 odd for all of my tuition. That is what I pay in the difference for my tuition now. Check out your local JCs. Go to the library and check out the scholarships. You say you make 1,500 at BK, save 80-90% of that until you finish high school. It will help you in the long run.

Mostly I started this because I am peeved that education is not stressed as important. We want to move forward into a modern age where everyone is connected via the Internet and such but how is it that we can accomplish this when education is not figured into the equation? How will we even know about our world neighbors?

DeadYorick
02-18-2008, 06:22 PM
I bet Micheal Moore is going to do a movie on this. "College. Hell in your pocket?"

Arcesious
02-18-2008, 07:14 PM
JM12- I know that the labor laws keep people from being forced to work too long, but what I don't like is that labor laws won't allow me to choose if I want to work more hours. The reason I can't really afford anything right now is because I've bought a car and I've got lots of other bills to pay... I wasn't able to fidn any cheap used cars with good gas mileage, so I had to buy a new car. Who is the heartless person who makes these cars so darn expensive anyways?

Also, Are Institutes any different than Colleges? If so, what's the difference? Like ITT tech for example? Because I'm planning to go for a a couple degrees with computer programming. I want to be a game designer.

mimartin
02-18-2008, 07:15 PM
The comment I made was more or less sarcasm because of the sterotype of Republicans being pennypinchers.
I am glad that I could make and grateful and blessed that I don't have $30,000 in loans but only about $4,000. I know that it will be harder the higher I go and more jumping through hoops to get what you need.
If my comments came off as I was upset by what you wrote, forgive me for that was not my intention. I just understand how overwhelming the task before you is. It was easy for me to get in to self-pity moods and worry about expenses when I was in college. Hell, I remember going a week on nothing but green beans and pink lemonade Kool-Aid. Watching other get everything handed to them really ****** me off. Then I woke up one day and realized that I was lucky to have what I had. Others may be upset that I had it as easy as I did. Even if I could change places with one of those that had everything handed to them I would not. I would not want them to have to go through what I went through. Not that I am feeling sorry for myself, Iím way more proud of what I accomplished than I would have been if my parents had given me the money. I know my grades got much better once I started paying about a thousand dollars for four hours of class time.


Maybe there is money out there but you have to look for it. I guess that is where the test of character comes in when you decide how serious you are about pursuing a college education. There are. I had friends that found all types of money. I just never had the patients or the time. If I wasnít at school I was either at work or a sleep. One of my major gripes is they make all government assistance extremely difficult to figure out except for those that know the system.

I really wanted to continue with my Doctorate (and still might some day), but money was a major consideration on continuing. I donít believe it would help my income, so there is no real point.

Good luck to you all.

Web Rider
02-18-2008, 07:22 PM
I am already saving up for tuition fees. But hey at least when Bush is out of office maybe the next president will change things around. Maybe focus on population control. Since that is a huge factor now.

Anyway I would probably get a student loan. But the problem with them and this is the way colleges make more money is that they accumulate interest. Meaning if you get a 1000 dollar loan by the time you are done your course it could be up to 1200 dollars. This is why most of the world is corrupt. People are always trying to get more money

You realize the American population still has an average birthrate of 2.5 kids per family. Maybe in China population control is a huge deal, but there are so few people born in the recent generations that it's overloading social security(not enough paying in as taking out), of course that also wouldn't be a problem if the government didn't keep borrowing from SS every other day.

I would have voted for Kusinich in a heartbeat if he had a reasonable chance of winning. You know what the saddest part is? I've talked to several people who agree with me, and I'm willing to bet that there are many more who would support him if the media would shut up about a black man and a woman , and stop treating them like they were the next adam an eve.

Totenkopf
02-18-2008, 08:29 PM
Kucinich!?! :rofl: What, so he can do to the rest of the country what he did to Cleveland? Maybe for an encore he'll sign an alliance pact with the aliens he saw in that UFO. :D

I do find it interesting that college tuition typically goes up in the vicinity of 10+/- % per year, but that inflation is usually much less.

Arcesious
02-18-2008, 08:55 PM
Usually, in other countries, but not in America.

I want to go to denmark, the happiest country in the world. (Except for the 50% taxes, Denmark rocks)

1jrJedismom
02-19-2008, 01:45 AM
Arc, The labor laws are set where they are because you are presumed to be in highschool. If you worked to many hours, it would affect that.

A Used car purchased at a dealer can often be a great deal. The returned leases and rentals are all low milage without the new car cost.

If you ask the referance Librarian at your local library, There is a book that lists all the places you can apply for scholarships and other school money. There are places out there just waiting to give someone money for education. Check some professional groups in your desired field. Don't give up! Where there is a will, . . .

JM12 just like your mom going back to school in her 40's, so did mine. It gave me the belif that you are never to old for education. Look at me.

PoiuyWired
02-19-2008, 03:33 AM
Don't give up! Where there is a will, . . .


... There Is A Dead Relative?

Well money like that are hard to come by...

Oh on topic. You may consider taking transferable courses from community colleges parttime, and do a transfer. Taking some classes from community colleges would reduce the cost.

Web Rider
02-19-2008, 11:27 AM
Kucinich!?! :rofl: What, so he can do to the rest of the country what he did to Cleveland? Maybe for an encore he'll sign an alliance pact with the aliens he saw in that UFO. :D

I do find it interesting that college tuition typically goes up in the vicinity of 10+/- % per year, but that inflation is usually much less.

Because he had a strong focus on education. Not ending world hunger, not adding the 10 commandments to the constitution, but a REAL issue that would improve the country.

Unforunately to your second point, Prop 92 here in california, which would have lowered Community College fees and prevented increasing them well beyond inflation did not pass.

JediMaster12
02-19-2008, 12:12 PM
Web Rider you can still put him on the bnallot when you vote. Like hell I would vote for Obama.

As to Prop 92 that really bites. Maybe it's like what the FTA and the student volunteers say, that it is up to us. The major roadblock I would see is getting the people to care.

Web Rider
02-19-2008, 12:19 PM
Web Rider you can still put him on the bnallot when you vote. Like hell I would vote for Obama.
He was still running as of Feb 5th. I just knew he wouldn't win, which meant my vote would only take away from the candidate I "liked" most. Or, add to the one I liked least...Obama.

As to Prop 92 that really bites. Maybe it's like what the FTA and the student volunteers say, that it is up to us. The major roadblock I would see is getting the people to care.

Yeah, well apparently Arnie came out and said "oh, this is bad, we don't want to get locked into funding that we can't pay."

That's the whole point of locking the education budget you nimrod, so that you can't take money from it next year.

JediMaster12
02-19-2008, 04:16 PM
^^^
Which the Governator here in Cali has been doing and trying to do ever since he took office.
I believe that I have mentioned this before but teachers are among the worst paid professionals out there. I know it is nothing compared to being a police officer or firefighter but helloooo, they are in charge of preparing the future.

Part of the increase in fees was to go towards maintaining the faculty at the university and maintenance of the facilities students use. Of course some of us sarcastic people know that it is all going to pad them what six figure salaries of the administration.
As someone said the increase rate is higher than the inflation. I am no economist but that sounds like the equation is out of balance.

mimartin
02-19-2008, 04:31 PM
As someone said the increase rate is higher than the inflation. I am no economist but that sounds like the equation is out of balance.
Supply and Demand, more people are going to college than ever before and that is driving up the cost. Universities can only take in so many new students per year this is also driving up the cost.

Web Rider
02-19-2008, 04:49 PM
Supply and Demand, more people are going to college than ever before and that is driving up the cost. Universities can only take in so many new students per year this is also driving up the cost.

Colleges aren't raising costs to dissuade new students as supply and demand would seem to make us think. College costs are controlled by the State. They are increased generally, as was said above, when some Administrator can't take their vacation to Hawaii twice a year because they're not making 300k.

The school payment system is upside down, the teachers who bear the brunt of the load get paid the least, while the administrators who are farthest from the students get paid the most.

Arcesious
02-19-2008, 07:12 PM
Yeah it just isn't right. People who work hard in this world most often get paid less than the people who get much easier jobs. For example: My mother works full time at an accounting buisness, and she get's paid only half of what the biggest slacker in the buisness is paid. My mother gets all the work done, and even does extra, but she never gets a raise or anything, and she has to pick up the slack for soemone who gets paid twice as much as her. Same thing with the teaching administration. It's very unfair.

mimartin
02-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Colleges aren't raising costs to dissuade new students as supply and demand would seem to make us think. I donít know about the rest of the country, but in Texas most universities are undergo massive expansions. The money to build new facilities is coming from the state, alumnus and student fees. Also the two largest universities in Texas, The University of Texas and Texas A&M, have gotten permission from the state to charge higher fees. Not long ago if you went to University of Houston-Clear Lake (the university I got my two upper level degrees at) or The University of Texas (the university I dreamed of going to) you paid the same amount per credit hour, now that is no longer the case.

I've attend a few meetings at the UH Clear Lake where they begged for money to increase and upgrade facilities so they did not have to pass the cost on to their students. I got my name on a brick for my trouble.

JediMaster12
02-20-2008, 12:13 PM
This is true about the upgrade to facilities at CSU San Bernardino. We recently had two parking structures built but to get them built, they increased the cost of daily paarking from $2.50 per day to $4 per day and they increased the quarterly parking permit from $55 to $65 but that was only to the students. Faculty and staff didn't see a rise in their parking. We are getting a new College of Ed building and our Student Union was remodeled. We got lucky in that because the local reservation donated to the Student Union remodeling which is why it is now named Santos Manuel Student Union.

When I took my crash course in economics in high school, I learned that our monetary system is paid by time. The idea was that the more time you put in to your education, the more you get paid or something like that. Seems to me with the increase in fees and the rearranging of the federal education budget is preventing people from putting more time in to go higher. At my university they charge more for the graduate students to register and attend. I understand the logic that they want to make sure that you are serious and all since there are deadlines to submit to the different departments for your program but some things are ridiculous. If you are undeclared post bacc, you don't get financial aid. That really bites and had me spitting last fall.

1jrJedismom
02-20-2008, 03:26 PM
JM12 Don't forget that for Graduate students, They assume that you have moved on the work and are attending part tiem while you are now into a career. Therefore the higher cost. But, for those that go strait from their BA/s into MA/s it doesn't seem quite fair. But, hey, thats the way it goes. Bummer. I don't like it either.

Arcesious
02-20-2008, 04:45 PM
Eh, I guess there's no point complaining about this now that I think of it. The world isn't going to change for us so we all can afford college, so I might as well accept it and try really hard to get a degree somewhere when I get out of highschool.

Totenkopf
02-20-2008, 05:00 PM
It's interesting that when gas prices go up it's a conspiracy, but when college and university prices increase dramatically there's no call to launch an investigation of higher education.

mimartin
02-20-2008, 05:21 PM
It's interesting that when gas prices go up it's a conspiracy, but when college and university prices increase dramatically there's no call to launch an investigation of higher education.
When is the last time you saw a University report a billion dollar profit for the year? When you see that you will be seeing people jumping up and down calling for an investigation.

Totenkopf
02-21-2008, 02:25 AM
Well, maybe if there were only <6 universities in the US, they'd have billion dollar profits too (everything from tuitions to grants to endowments). Is there some reason that oil companies shouldn't have a profit, especially given the degree to which their product is used in modern civilization?

Point Man
03-10-2008, 10:41 AM
I do not want this to sound elitist, but I believe that it should be hard to get through college.

I entered college straight out of high school and got some grants, a work-study job, and some loans. I did horribly, because I was young and unmotivated.

When I went back to school as an adult, I found creative ways to finance my education without taking out loans. I also worked my tail off to make my last 63 hours all A's.

If I did not have to work so hard, my degree would not mean so much to me. I know that to those who are looking at college, the prospect of paying for your education seems daunting. However, you cannot imagine the satisfaction you will feel when you can look back and say, "I did that on my own. It was a lot of work, but I did it."

Remember the words of Thomas Paine: "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly."

JediMaster12
03-10-2008, 02:00 PM
I can see what you are saying jimbo but if you look at it another way, it seems to spit on those willing to work hard but don't have the means. I was glad to be over the hurdle in completing my degree and I know that it will only be further hurdles but somehow there are things that I don't see as fair.

Sun-Shine
03-10-2008, 10:59 PM
It's sad that college is a distant dream and not obtainable to most. I want to go to college but I can only pay for it if I take out loans. Knowing that it will take me years to pay it off is depressing. Plus, I'm always hearing stories about people who have a degree but are still only able to get low paying jobs.

Inyri
03-11-2008, 12:16 AM
That depends on what you're looking for. I get paid just fine for work I'm not entirely qualified for (it's easy work, but it's not what I went to school for -- but they never would have hired me without the degree) and it pays quite well compared to the work.

If people out of college can't get decently-paying jobs, they're probably just not looking in the right places. And/or their resumes look crappy. :p