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Nikkolas
02-28-2008, 05:00 PM
I've heard it's stated in the game that they had to kill Nihilus before detonating the charges on the ship because while he was alive they wouldn't destroy the ship.

Is this true? If so, can anyone get me the exact quote and where it's stated?

lukeiamyourdad
02-28-2008, 09:23 PM
I don't have the exact quote, but it's something about blowing it up not meaning anything, probably because he would survive the blast unless the Exile kills him.

Why do you need that?

Rev7
02-28-2008, 10:04 PM
Yes, you have to kill darth Nihilus before you destroy the Ravager. There is really (in reality) no other way to kill Nihlius. I too find it interesting why you would need information like that. Just curious?

~Rev

Nikkolas
02-28-2008, 10:41 PM
I'm in a debate on another forum about the power of certain Sith Lords. If Nihilus could hold his ship together even when charges designed to blow it up are detonated, it would be quite impressive.

However, I lack the specific info and was just going on hearsay. I wasn't even sure if it was factual and thus I was lookign for the exact quote or when it's stated.

TKA-001
02-28-2008, 10:59 PM
probably because he would survive the blast unless the Exile kills him.
I'm pretty sure that if Nihilus can survive the colossal explosion of his ship blasting apart, then a lightsaber isn't going to do any good.

Zerimar Nyliram
02-29-2008, 12:46 AM
I think it had more to do with Visas being there to weaken him through their connection so that the Exile could strike him down. Visas is the crucible.

lukeiamyourdad
02-29-2008, 12:51 AM
I'm pretty sure that if Nihilus can survive the colossal explosion of his ship blasting apart, then a lightsaber isn't going to do any good.

Sion survived being blown apart when Peragus II exploded. He died only when his will was defeated.

I think a similar explanation, as Zerimar pointed out, is plausible in the case of Nihilus. A purely physical attack is not what will bring him down.

Nikkolas
02-29-2008, 12:56 AM
I just figured they had to kill Nihilus first because he apparently keeps The Ravager together. So, even if they did detonate the charges, his will would keep the ship intact.

Rev7
02-29-2008, 01:07 AM
So, even if they did detonate the charges, his will would keep the ship intact.
Well, that is of course unknown. You know in nearly every videogame that you play, you beat a bad guy, and they just come back. Generally speaking of course, The Exile probably killed Nihilius first because he had to stop him from destroying Telos, or because he didn't want to take that chance. Or because, as I know many would agree, and this is generally from JediPhile, The Exile is Nihilius's "better" half, and The Exile was the only person that could actually kill Darth Nihilius. Otherwise Nihilius would just suck the life out of the person. This is of course just speculation, and theory, and has a lot of other information to it, that I don't remember. JediPhile, where are you when we need you?!

~Rev

TKA-001
02-29-2008, 11:41 PM
Sion survived being blown apart when Peragus II exploded. He died only when his will was defeated.
So Sion was just floating in space until he got picked up by some ship? He doesn't need to breath air?

Are you seriously suggesting that Sion and Nihilus are literally absolutely invincible?

DeadYorick
03-01-2008, 12:04 AM
So Sion was just floating in space until he got picked up by some ship? He doesn't need to breath air?

Are you seriously suggesting that Sion and Nihilus are literally absolutely invincible?

Sion and Nihilus weren't invincible. How could you kill them then?

Anyway Sion couldn't die because he was already dead but he was kept together due to his hatred and pain. Nihilus was a wound in the force. Sion only died when the Exile finally persuaded him to let go of his pain. Nihilus could only be killed by the Exile since she was his other half

Corinthian
03-01-2008, 12:34 AM
This kind of crap is why I dislike TSL.

Firstly, it's highly unlikely that the Harbinger was destroyed at Peragus. A Republic Battleship being killed by fuel explosions is about as likely as a Nimitz-Class Aircraft Carrier being sunk by a pipe bomb. And about Sion surviving it anyway because he's so angry, sorry, but all the Sith Magic in the world can't save you from the joys of explosive decompression. It's more likely that the massive explosions disabled the Peragus or at least overwhelmed it's sensors, giving more than enough time for the Ebon Hawk to escape.

Secondly, I have no idea what the original poster is talking about. As far as I remember, it's impossible to set off the charges before you've nixed Nihilus.

TKA-001
03-01-2008, 09:48 AM
So, even if they did detonate the charges, his will would keep the ship intact.
Did you watch the cutscene of the Ravager's destruction? Even if Nihilus could hold the ship together after that (which is doubtful since the command deck would be ripped apart), the ship wouldn't even be functional. Structural integrity compromised, most (if not all) decks lose power, certainly entire crew dead from explosions, fire, or vacuum of space. Do you seriously need me to go on?

Anyway Sion couldn't die because he was already dead
Actually, I think being dead might preclude him being alive as we see in TSL. I'm not too sure about this, but can you really be alive when you're DEAD!?

After I paint myself blue I'll be redder than anyone else!

but he was kept together due to his hatred and pain.
Sion only died when the Exile finally persuaded him to let go of his pain.
Sounds like someone doesn't know what Sion's ability actually is.

Sion's power is not a god mode cheat. His power is just to stay alive. Look at him. With those wounds, he should be dead. His power is the ability to stay alive despite those wounds, not a magic shield that protects him from anything. I'm sure that if you beheaded him, he'd be dead. Or would he just stay alive anyway like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

It seems pretty obvious to me what happened to Sion at Peragus. Either he escaped into hyperspace with the Harbinger, or got away from all the explosions using an escape pod from the Harbinger.

Nihilus could only be killed by the Exile since she was his other half
Time enough to throw down the balderdash idea that Nihilus and the Exile are related in any way (other than the fact that they're both wounds in the force) later, but that's not the point. We're talking about facts here, not ridiculous fanon concepts. To say that a lightsaber kills Nihilus, but not an enormous explosion is an absolute absurdity.

It is true that Nihilus thought that he could survive, but it is repeatedly stated that he doesn't see the universe like anyone else, and is most likely a slave to his hunger like some semi-intelligent animal. Visas' statement that he doesn't understand the concept of his death in the explosion also does not reinforce the idea that he could survive.

Rev7
03-01-2008, 01:45 PM
or got away from all the explosions using an escape pod from the Harbinger.
I do believe that all of the escape pods were already jettisoned or they weren't operational. ;)

TKA-001
03-01-2008, 01:58 PM
I seem to recall them being described as "locked", presumably by the Sith to prevent anyone else from escaping. :lol:

Nikkolas
03-01-2008, 05:33 PM
Did you watch the cutscene of the Ravager's destruction? Even if Nihilus could hold the ship together after that (which is doubtful since the command deck would be ripped apart), the ship wouldn't even be functional. Structural integrity compromised, most (if not all) decks lose power, certainly entire crew dead from explosions, fire, or vacuum of space. Do you seriously need me to go on?

Iíd appreciate it if you did considering the structural integrity is already enough to make the ship collapse and the thing is already filled with holes, exposed to vacuum and shooting off lightning/electricity.
All this is before anything was blown up.
As for the crew dying, do you think Nihilus had a crew when he ripped the ship from Malachor?

Zuka: That's the last of them, Mandalore. We can destroy the ship on your command.
Exile: We still have to kill the Master on this ship, or Telos is finished anyway.

so apparently blowing up the Ravager wouldn't keep Nihilus from killing the planet

Sion's power is not a god mode cheat. His power is just to stay alive. Look at him. With those wounds, he should be dead. His power is the ability to stay alive despite those wounds, not a magic shield that protects him from anything. I'm sure that if you beheaded him, he'd be dead. Or would he just stay alive anyway like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

Donít you fight him in a lightsaber battle and heís totally invulnerable?


Time enough to throw down the balderdash idea that Nihilus and the Exile are related in any way (other than the fact that they're both wounds in the force) later, but that's not the point. We're talking about facts here, not ridiculous fanon concepts. To say that a lightsaber kills Nihilus, but not an enormous explosion is an absolute absurdity.

Actually, they only dared fight Nihilus after he was extremely weakened from hunger and after he was further weakened by attempting to drain the Exile.
So, perhaps at his peak he could survive both.

TKA-001
03-01-2008, 08:44 PM
Iíd appreciate it if you did considering the structural integrity is already enough to make the ship collapse and the thing is already filled with holes, exposed to vacuum
If it was exposed to vacuum, then the player and his/her party would die immediately after setting foot on it. There's still an atmosphere in the ship.

As for the crew dying, do you think Nihilus had a crew when he ripped the ship from Malachor?
I'm pretty sure Nihilus can't crew an entire capital ship on his own.

Donít you fight him in a lightsaber battle and heís totally invulnerable?
Repeat: Sion's power is not a god mode cheat.

Actually, they only dared fight Nihilus after he was extremely weakened from hunger and after he was further weakened by attempting to drain the Exile.
The reason they "dared" to fight Nihilus is because they wanted to make sure he didn't escape or whatever. Simple as that.

So, perhaps at his peak he could survive both
I'm still pretty sure he's as susceptible to an explosion as anyone else.

Ctrl Alt Del
03-01-2008, 08:59 PM
Donít you fight him in a lightsaber battle and heís totally invulnerable?

No. He heals himself, and after doing that a couple of times he gets weary. That's not invulnerability.

Nikkolas
03-01-2008, 10:29 PM
If it was exposed to vacuum, then the player and his/her party would die immediately after setting foot on it. There's still an atmosphere in the ship.

Yet there's holes in the ship and hull.
How can there be atmosphere in areas like that?
Just asking.

Corinthian
03-01-2008, 11:19 PM
Magcon Fields. They're usually used for shielding hangar bays so that fighter craft can launch without sucking any support staff into vacuum, but it's more than conceivable that they could encircle

Nikkolas
03-30-2008, 04:58 PM
It's probably Nihilus' doing then.
Tobin says Nihilus keeps him and the crew alive. perhaps whatever Nihilus is doing effects whoever is on the ship, even if they're unwanted guests.

Astor
03-30-2008, 05:04 PM
It's probably Nihilus' doing then.
Tobin says Nihilus keeps him and the crew alive. perhaps whatever Nihilus is doing effects whoever is on the ship, even if they're unwanted guests.

How would that explain the player not dying after Nihilus is dead? If it was him doing that, then the ship would likely be crushed or ripped apart by the vaccum.

I agree with Corinthian on the Magcon Fields being responsible.

Nikkolas
03-30-2008, 05:23 PM
How would that explain the player not dying after Nihilus is dead? If it was him doing that, then the ship would likely be crushed or ripped apart by the vaccum.

Well, we're told he holds the ship together and he keeps everyone alive. That's fact.
Then the ship doesn't fall apart and everyone doesn't die when he is no longer keeping the ship together or supplying air.
Reaosn? The game creators ****ed up.

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 05:27 PM
Magcon Fields. They're usually used for shielding hangar bays so that fighter craft can launch without sucking any support staff into vacuum, but it's more than conceivable that they could encircle

Yup:

The vessel has suffered extensive structural damage, but its particle fields still maintain a minimal atmosphere within the ship.



I'm pretty sure Nihilus can't crew an entire capital ship on his own.

He managed to rip it out of Malachor on his own. And Sion flew the Harbinger all by himself.



Time enough to throw down the balderdash idea that Nihilus and the Exile are related in any way (other than the fact that they're both wounds in the force) later, but that's not the point. We're talking about facts here, not ridiculous fanon concepts.

It's not fanon; Mr Avellone has said that this was exactly their concept of Nihilus.

Nihilusí exact identity is never specified in K2 - I had a specific origin in mind, but not a name, if that makes sense, and what I say hear is not canon: He was created when Malachor V was torn apart, and he was intended as the Exileís other half, one that took a more self-destructive path rather than denying the Force during that battle that ended the Mandalorian Wars.

Not canon, no; but not fanon either.



It's probably Nihilus' doing then.
Tobin says Nihilus keeps him and the crew alive. perhaps whatever Nihilus is doing effects whoever is on the ship, even if they're unwanted guests.

Tobin wasn't the only one of Nihilus' slaves with an inflated opinion of their "master". And he could simply be referring to the fact that Nihilus didn't kill them all instantly, but let them live as he slowly drained the life out of them.

Astor
03-30-2008, 05:27 PM
Well, we're told he holds the ship together and he keeps everyone alive. That's fact.

Where does it say that? All I remember about the ship is that Visas said he pulled it out of Malachor - she, or anyone for that matter, never said he keeps the ship together.


Then the ship doesn't fall apart and everyone doesn't die when he is no longer keeping the ship together or supplying air.
Reaosn? The game creators ****ed up.

I don't think they did screw up - you can't just create air from nowhere using the Force - it really has to be Magcon fields or atmospheric shields keeping oxygen in.

Paddythegreat
03-30-2008, 05:32 PM
I dont think sion flew the harbinger by himself, im sure you are atacked by countless sith soldiers when you board the ebon hawk.

Nikkolas
03-30-2008, 05:33 PM
Mandalore: [The Ravager] is barely holding itself together. The structural damage should have destroyed it long ago.

Tobin: He holds it together. And he keeps us all alive, just enough, like rotworms in a dying beast.

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 05:38 PM
I dont think sion flew the harbinger by himself, im sure you are atacked by countless sith soldiers when you board the ebon hawk.

They were assassins, not pilots. :p And in one of the pre-rendered movies, you see Sion on the bridge alone, flying the ship through the Force (don't ask me how that works).

Astor
03-30-2008, 05:53 PM
The ship was held together, in part by Nihilus' will, but he ensured the life support systems were running - this included the particle fields that maintained an atmosphere within the ship.

That's what Tobin means when he says that he keeps them alive - he allows the life support system to run :lol:

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 05:58 PM
Then what happened after Nihilus' life support failed? :p

Astor
03-30-2008, 06:00 PM
From what I can gather, the 'Force-Zombies' on the bridge work the controls for whole ship - they're programmed to do only that - so after he dies, they presumably keep doing it until blown up :xp:

TKA-001
03-30-2008, 06:48 PM
He managed to rip it out of Malachor on his own.
The only details on that are that he "tore it from the mass shadows", nothing indicating that he didn't need a crew to run the ship on its day-to-day business[es].

And Sion flew the Harbinger all by himself.
And in one of the pre-rendered movies, you see Sion on the bridge alone, flying the ship through the Force (don't ask me how that works).
Sion was sitting on the bridge, meditating. Not "piloting" it. How can the idea that Sion is piloting it with the force possibly be more logical than the idea that it's simply on an autopilot?

Not canon, no; but not fanon either.
It's not fanon; Mr Avellone has said that this was exactly their concept of Nihilus.
It is ridiculous fanon, regardless of who made it up. The only reason you say it isn't fanon is because Avellone said it, as if that somehow makes it different from if it was something than some anonymous person posted somewhere.

They were assassins, not pilots.
Assassins or not, just because they aren't pilots specifically trained to crew a Republic warship doesn't mean it's impossible for them to tell the ship to go somewhere.

Paddythegreat
03-30-2008, 07:17 PM
Exactly, the only way the assasins got to peragus was on the harbinger, who says they dont have piloting skills? You dont stand at a football match and say ''those guys cant drive because they are playing football'' :p

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 07:20 PM
Sion was sitting on the bridge, meditating. Not "piloting" it. How can the idea that Sion is piloting it with the force possibly be more logical than the idea that it's simply on an autopilot?

If it had an autopilot, then Atton, Kreia, and the Exile could have just taken the Harbinger and left the Hawk and HK-50 back on Peragus.

I don't see what the confusion is. Sion was on the bridge, alone. He was meditating, or doing something with the Force. And the Harbinger flew, without a crew. Who else could have been flying it?

The only reason you say it isn't fanon is because Avellone said it, as if that somehow makes it different from if it was something than some anonymous person posted somewhere.

Uh...he was head developer of the game, not some nobody. You might as well say that the Exile's gender is fanon because Mr Chee made it up.

Nikkolas
03-30-2008, 07:33 PM
Tobin wasn't the only one of Nihilus' slaves with an inflated opinion of their "master". And he could simply be referring to the fact that Nihilus didn't kill them all instantly, but let them live as he slowly drained the life out of them.


There's nothing to inflate. Kreia definitley has no love for Nihilus and even she tells volumes about how powerful and dangerous he is.
Nihilus is a cosmic force in SW. That's just plain obvious. Keeping a few people alive seems like a minor task as opposed to draining planets and ripping starships from gravity wells.

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 07:42 PM
I was kidding...but I suppose I do believe he is greatly overestimated.

Kreia certainly isn't unbiased--remember, he was her student, and she has a seriously inflated opinion of her students. Same with Visas, only she was the student.

Just listen to the three musketeers; Nihilus was hiding from them as much as they were hiding from him. (That's also proof of how dumb they were--they thought more hiding was the solution.)

Sure, Nihilus can eat entire planets, but that's just proof of how weak he is--if he doesn't eat that planet, he'll die.

Nikkolas
03-30-2008, 07:51 PM
Yeah. The same rule applies to Galactus. I'm not gonna call him weak (well, most of the time).

'sides, Kreia hates both her students. The only ones she likes are Revan and the Exile. She hates Sion because he's a brute who, as she said, "knows nothing." She hates Nihilus because he's a threat to all life.

JCarter426
03-30-2008, 08:01 PM
She does hate them, but she also has an inflated opinion of them, in order to feed her own inflated ego. :p

TKA-001
03-31-2008, 09:31 AM
If it had an autopilot, then Atton, Kreia, and the Exile could have just taken the Harbinger and left the Hawk and HK-50 back on Peragus
Maybe it takes the crew to put it on the autopilot. One plus one equals two.

Uh...he was head developer of the game, not some nobody.
For all intents and purposes of this discussion, he is just some nobody.

That's also proof of how dumb they were--they thought more hiding was the solution.
Yeah, good thing they smartened up and came out of hiding on Dantooine so that Kreia could kill them mere moments later. How stupid they were for not attacking a far more powerful enemy.

Astor
03-31-2008, 11:55 AM
Maybe it takes the crew to put it on the autopilot. One plus one equals two.

Well, seeing as it's never explicitly mentioned, all anyone can do is speculate. But if it was on autopilot, Sion might be able to do it.

TKA-001
03-31-2008, 03:42 PM
So all the controls on the ship aren't labeled or anything?

Astor
03-31-2008, 03:45 PM
So all the controls on the ship aren't labeled or anything?

Where exactly did I say that? :confused:

Rev7
03-31-2008, 04:05 PM
^
I think that he implyed that there were instruments that are labeled. In airplanes things are labeled. I highly doubt that all of the contols weren't labeled at all. Sion could have possibly piloted the ship because the controls were labeled. ;)

Astor
03-31-2008, 04:21 PM
I understand that, Rev, i'm just stating that I never said anything about labeling on the instrumentation.

Rev7
03-31-2008, 04:24 PM
Perhaps he wasn't addressing you? Just asking a question?

TKA-001
03-31-2008, 04:34 PM
He was implying that it would be a severe challenge for him to set a course for the ship.

Astor
03-31-2008, 04:37 PM
I wasn't implying it would be a challenge - I said 'might' as in, he 'might' know how to set an autopilot system.

JCarter426
03-31-2008, 05:29 PM
Again, I point out that if Sion knew, odds are that Atton would know as well (he is a pilot, after all...not a good one, but a pilot nonetheless :p).

TKA-001
03-31-2008, 06:42 PM
Isn't it worth mentioning that unlike Atton and the rest, Sion actually did have a crew?

JCarter426
03-31-2008, 06:47 PM
They weren't on the bridge, though.

Paddythegreat
03-31-2008, 07:43 PM
They weren't on the bridge, though.

That snipet was filmed during a cigarette break, sion declined to join the crew because he thinks ''smoking is unhealthy and can kill'' I think he's paraniod :|

Rev7
03-31-2008, 07:54 PM
^
Well that answers everything! :xp:

Isn't it worth mentioning that unlike Atton and the rest, Sion actually did have a crew?
Well, I honestly do think that to some extent, Sion did have a crew. I don't think that it is or would be resonable to say that Darth Sion could pilot the Harbinger, while manning the turbolasers. Althought that could be explained. He could have used an auto-targetting system. But wouldn't that mean that he had to know the controls? ;)

Anyways, this discussion is really getting off topic...just pointing that out...

Rabish Bini
04-06-2008, 12:46 AM
You know what would be grand, if Jediphile was here.

Anywho, wasn't Sions crew the Sith assassins, maybe they flew the ship, not Sion by himself, and maybe they were invisible, because we all know they can stealth themselves, maybe they were doing that, o maybe it was set on autopilot?

EDIT: 1,000 post yay!! Finally!!