PDA

View Full Version : Female Gamers


Jae Onasi
03-15-2008, 01:50 AM
The thread title says it all--how do we females view games? How is it similar or different from males? The number of female gamers has jumped rather dramatically in the last 5 years or so--how is that going to affect games? What aspects of games could be more 'female friendly'? What are your favorite games, characters, genres?

Anything related to females gaming is fair game here. Guys, you're welcome to chime in, as long as it's relevant to the topic. I don't want to see the "OMG!!11!! I LURV TEH GIRLZ!!11eleventy-one!!11!!1!1!1!!!" posts....

Gals, feel free to add your topics, questions, concerns.

My first question/issue/beef: Why is Obsidian apparently taking a step back and going to a male-only character in their just-announced Alpha Protocol? While I may appreciate the finer points of male pixel-anatomy, I'd much rather play a female character than look at the back-end of a male character all game.

Inyri
03-15-2008, 01:54 AM
From a female perspective I'd say most modern (non-RPG) games are lacking heavily in the story department. I'm past my prime for multiplay; I buy games for single-player now usually. Apparently I get to save my money because there haven't been any good SP games to buy since Republic Commando, probably, and that was even shy on SP content (good campaign, but much too short).

Is it unreasonable to expect that a game developer should care as much about the single-player campaign as the multiplay? Perhaps it's just a female perspective, as the lads out there seem to be more interested in shoot'em up. I, however, need a good solid story arc with good gameplay to keep me satisfied. Shooting down the bad guys for me is a way to advance the plot, not simply something to giggle at when blood comes spurting out.

Jae Onasi
03-15-2008, 01:58 AM
I'm with you on that one. I got my button-mashing fix out of the way playing Asteroids and Pac-Man. You can only shoot an in-game gun so many times before you realize that really, the only outcome is hit or miss. At least with good stories you have multiple choices that can dramatically alter the outcome, and I find that far more interesting.

Bee Hoon
03-15-2008, 01:58 AM
Games like Final Fantasy also leave you no choice with regards to the main character, but they do make up for it by having awesome stories and strong female characters :P What annoys me a lot is how female pc romances tend to be rather gimped and with far fewer choices than the guys have! *huffs in displeasure* Also, the romanceable characters *always* have to be polar opposites and they frequently bicker over the PC's affections. As someone so eloquently described it, "dogs fighting over a bone". Meh!

Arcesious
03-15-2008, 02:45 AM
The problem is that we guys tend to be the ones who make the games more than women do... Sicne so few women are game designers for games like starwars, but there are so many guys, so the game always seems to run out with a more male prosective. That and we guys tend to be naturally more agressive and wanting to have a fighting game, so we enjoy games like that more than the majority of women, and it tends to turn out more of a guys game, as we mostly make it for a male perspective. And when we try to give a game options fro the perspective of a female in the game, we tend to leave it a bit more limited than the guy perspective. It's just that there's a gap between genders, and our understandment of each-other's perspectives aren't that great... If I tried to make a game have both a guy and girl perspective in SP, I'd have trouble, as I still don't understand women... Same for most other guys... And visa versa, if women tried to make a game for guys. That, and the majority of sci-fi gamers are guys, so in the terms of money making, the makers of the game want to make more money, so they make it for the majority's interests instead of for both the 'majority gender' (Male) and 'minority gender' (Female) of gamers. (For lack of better words to say instead of 'majority gender' and 'minority gender')

Arcesious, if you hit the return button now and then and put line separations between paragraphs, it will greatly enhance readability. :)

--Jae

Inyri
03-15-2008, 03:04 AM
I think you'd be very surprised at how many female game developers there are and how many female gamers there are.

We simply tend to avoid being vocal because we don't want to have to deal with hordes of horny 12 year old boys going 'omg bewbs!' ;)

Jvstice
03-15-2008, 03:06 AM
I usually do the single player campaigns. A lot of the time, they are specificaly targeted towards a male audience though and as a male, I personally don't mind, but I can see where women might feel pretty slighted by a lot of these games. I do try to follow every possible path in replay throughs if a game is interesting enough to be worth a replay and there are alternate options enough to keep it interesting, though there are some cases I really can't make myself try a few of the possible outcomes.

I remember with VTM: Bloodlines the instructions told you that the higher your seduction feat, then the more likely you could get a human to let you feed off them. Now it made sense that when I'd play a male character, the female NPC's would be the ones throwing themselves at the main character and letting your character drink their blood. But then if you played a female vampire, all of a sudden, every single of of the same NPC's all of a sudden go lesbian and still like your character.

Of course not that I minded because it's females I'm attracted to anyway, but I did think that it was kind of unfair to any straight women that would have been interested in the game.

Or like the whole Kotor you can have a romance that Bastilla kisses a male Revan, but if Revan's female, then female Revan's romance with Carth is utterly platonic kind of struck me the same way. Carth didnt' really do anything for me, but like I say, it struck me as 1 sided not giving women that play the same options.

Bee Hoon
03-15-2008, 03:08 AM
Having written quite a bit from the perspective of a male Revan with reasonable effectiveness, I'd say that the gender divide isn't quite that unbridgeable:P If I can write a believable male character, I'm sure that guys can write decent romances etc for girls if given a little practice ;)

Inyri
03-15-2008, 03:08 AM
I'm not insulted that games focus on a male character; I'm less interested in playing a role than I am with seeing how the game unfolds. What gender I am is usually irrelevant. I complain that 'female PC's get the shaft' in terms of story-line, but it doesn't bother me much. I'm just interested in playing through the story itself.

Jvstice
03-15-2008, 03:16 AM
Female character does get the shaft in K2. They made her with no taste in men, where male Exile does have some common sense and decent options of people he could actually respect.

I mean when your choices are between someone who's undercutting you and trying to get away from you like atton and someone utterly without personality like disciple, vs a sith dedicated to you, a bounty hunter, and an echani warrior you can tell where they put a lot more thought and effort.

Bee Hoon
03-15-2008, 03:18 AM
I liked Atton :P Good stuff for fanfics, as I'm sure numerous authors in the CEC would agree! A good storyline will carry me through the game, but is bad from a roleplaying POV :(

Jvstice
03-15-2008, 03:28 AM
Storytelling POV both are good games. Just I think that a lot of players do put themselves in their main pc's shoes for campaign games and think of them as themselves a lot of the time.

Web Rider
03-15-2008, 04:37 AM
I don't personally know a lot of female gamers, though I tend to agree with what is usually labeled as the "female" perspective on games, that they need better stories and more depth. But that may also just be because I'm a writer. I don't however, want to see so much depth and such that we end up with games like Xenosaga, affectionately termed more a movie than a game.

I have to admit, in this day and age, I don't understand(short of VERY specific titles or genres), why ANY game would only allow single-gender play.

MasterWaffle
03-15-2008, 05:42 AM
Unfortunately my limb dyslexia* translates into bad hand eye co-ordination, making my playing FPS complicated. I enjoy games, but only when I can play them! I doubt this has anything to do with my gender, however. I find the lack of good female characters disappointing. I like kickass empowered women, and I like to see them under a C cup.
I guess it's a good reason for more females to get into game design.

...And visa versa, if women tried to make a game for guys...
Oh, I disagree. I think women understand what men would want in a video game, and I expect some males have a good grasp on understanding females, it's just that games are marketed more towards men so the female gamers probably just aren't considered (as much).
I mean, could you imagine that meeting?

Employee: I think we need to make Bloodbath Horror Assault IV more marketable towards women. How about we add a female character as a love interest for GoreSlasher EatYourChildren?
Room: O.o;

I think it takes a particular kind of women to enjoy video games as they are today. ^^

*May or may not be a made up condition

True_Avery
03-15-2008, 06:07 AM
Apparently I get to save my money because there haven't been any good SP games to buy since Republic Commando, probably, and that was even shy on SP content (good campaign, but much too short).
...Republic Commando...
Girl, I need to give you a long list of SP games that have been released before and after that silly shooter that are infinitely better.

What annoys me a lot is how female pc romances tend to be rather gimped and with far fewer choices than the guys have! *huffs in displeasure* Also, the romanceable characters *always* have to be polar opposites and they frequently bicker over the PC's affections. As someone so eloquently described it, "dogs fighting over a bone". Meh!
A matter of personal taste, really. I personally would have been disappointed in a lot of games if the love arc was simply boy meets girl, and then both fall head over heels in love. That works in chick-flicks, but not so much in a realistic setting.

Not sure what games you been playing though. I find that female pc romances tend to have much more depth than the male. Again, a matter of personal taste.

Why is Obsidian apparently taking a step back and going to a male-only character in their just-announced Alpha Protocol? While I may appreciate the finer points of male pixel-anatomy, I'd much rather play a female character than look at the back-end of a male character all game.
As long as it works, I personally do not care about which gender I play if it has already been assigned from the start. Witcher had a male only lead, and it played well enough around him to make me forget about customization.

Shooting down the bad guys for me is a way to advance the plot, not simply something to giggle at when blood comes spurting out.
Haha, I dunno. I find gore to be very amusing if done right.

I remember with VTM: Bloodlines the instructions told you that the higher your seduction feat, then the more likely you could get a human to let you feed off them. Now it made sense that when I'd play a male character, the female NPC's would be the ones throwing themselves at the main character and letting your character drink their blood. But then if you played a female vampire, all of a sudden, every single of of the same NPC's all of a sudden go lesbian and still like your character.
Haha, I loved that feature personally. I thought it added to the "this is not human society anymore, and you are not a human anymore" feel of the game. If you are a vampire, what does gender really mean anymore? You aren't going to be having kids, so that removes some chains. Blood is blood, and if you can use otherworldly powers to seduce some tasty girls... why not? I mean, I somehow doubt that vampires would view the world the same way humans do.

Although, as you said, the game would probably turn more straight girls off to it. I'm not straight though, so I am probably not the girl to be talking to.

Or like the whole Kotor you can have a romance that Bastilla kisses a male Revan, but if Revan's female, then female Revan's romance with Carth is utterly platonic kind of struck me the same way. Carth didnt' really do anything for me, but like I say, it struck me as 1 sided not giving women that play the same options.
I can see where you are coming from, but here is that from my perspective.
Bastila:
I disliked the Bastila arc personally and found it amusing at times, and this is coming from someone who seduced every chick she met in VTM:B.

Bastila's love was like a child discovering she had feet. It was suddenly the coolest thing in the world. She wanted to flex it and walk around. Her love was started by the bond, and then set on a roller coaster of hormones and emotion that she had probably been holding back since she was 10.

It was like watching a teenage girl, which is exactly what she is. And even though it makes sense, it makes for questionable dialog and a shallow character. Her puppy love was borderline obsessive, and depending on Male Revan's response she would only fall more into that spiral.

Most guys I have seen say the Bastila arc was better than the Carth arc because it had more "depth" or had more "love". What Bastila and male Revan had, in my opinion, was passion and hormones. Not love. They had the bond, but not the connection. The male Revan dialog to Bastila is over the top bad, and sounds like a 16 year old boy talking to his high school girlfriend. It felt pushed. It felt needy. It felt immature and high school teenager-y. I found it so silly that I don't play or acknowledge male Revan as a character since my first play through with him.

I'm not trying to make a blanket statement here, or be insulting, but finding more depth in an obsessive, needy airhead like Bastila than in Carth or female Revan makes me curious about some of your views on females in general. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but just curious as to the reasons.

Carth:
I thought his arc with female Revan was alright. I certainly, to me, felt like it had been worked on more that Bastila's.

Carth had lost his wife and assumed he had lost his son. He was betrayed by the man he admired, and many of his comrades. A large portion of his own people turned on the Republic and attacked him. His character was wary, and very introverted due to this. It took the entire game to get him to admit he has growing feels for you, and even that was after the shock of discovering you were the very woman that killed his wife, separated him from his son, and caused the Jedi Civil War.

Carth was secretive, introverted, and needed his space. He wanted to reach out, but had problems doing so due to his past. Female Revan comes along and tries to get into his head and understand him. Carth slowly opening up to her piece by piece was part of an inner conflict with himself, so I can see why it didn't go the Bastila route of: "I am a girl and you are a guy! Wanna kiss and stay together forever!"

Both him and female Revan were tough people. They both knew there was a situation at hand bigger than both of them. Throwing themselves at each other could only cause problems, as it did with male Revan and Bastila. A platonic friendship is what it looked like, but I have always thought that love was both about loving someone, but also being able to be their best friend.

Female character does get the shaft in K2. They made her with no taste in men, where male Exile does have some common sense and decent options of people he could actually respect.
As I said with Bastila and Carth, the male stuff felt more high schoolish while the female felt more too the point and serious. Although, that is just my opinion. I loved the quiet and introvertness of the females in both Kotor games, but that is a matter of personal taste.

I mean when your choices are between someone who's undercutting you and trying to get away from you like atton and someone utterly without personality like disciple, vs a sith dedicated to you, a bounty hunter, and an echani warrior you can tell where they put a lot more thought and effort.
Depends. A bunch of girls falling to their knees for you compared to some guys fighting for you seems to be a common gender tool. A lot of guys probably like the idea of a bunch of women falling for you, while the women tend to like guys amusingly fighting over you. I dunno, just something I personally noticed, and more of a matter of opinion than anything.

I like kickass empowered women, and I like to see them under a C cup.
Power to ya *high fives*

Oh, I disagree. I think women understand what men would want in a video game, and I expect some males have a good grasp on understanding females, it's just that games are marketed more towards men so the female gamers probably just aren't considered (as much).
That is a distinct possibility. There are games that seem to be more suited to a female audience, but I'd agree with you in saying that they are advertised to a (assumed) male audience.

I think it takes a particular kind of women to enjoy video games as they are today. ^^
I think it does too. But, as time has passed I've noticed a lot more chicks playing video games. I think you'd be surprised how many of them adore Guitar Hero, for example.

The difference is that male gamers tend to be social about it. Female gamers tend to be closet gamers.

patient_zero
03-15-2008, 08:20 AM
I think that if they sit and think about it, most (good) male writers can write good female characters, and vice versa. It's just that as games were looked upon as a "boy thing" to begin with, the people making them decided to write to the male audience, ignoring the existing female gamers and excluding potential female gamers who looks at it and think it's "a guy thing". It's improving now, but I'd be lying if I said it was perfect.

I can enjoy a wide range of games depending on the circumstance. For single player games I want an in-depth story, good characters, and choice where it's appropriate (Mostly in create-a-hero PC RPGs, story choices in an FPS are for the most part non-existant or superficial). And in games where choice is an option I do appreciate romance as long as it's a sidequest and doesn't seem too forced. For multiplayer games I don't tend to mind the story, as most of my kind of multiplayer games are Mario Party affairs where a story isn't really viable.

Speaking specifically of KotOR, I second Avery's distate for Bastila's romance. Females spend their time with Carth helping a broken man overcome his problems and slowly earning his trust, eventually enough that he starts to care for you and falls in love with you. Males talk to Bastila about twice then begin seeing the "hurrrr, you're hot" dialogue options. Even if I try to see those options as for "evil jerk" players trying to lure Bastila away from the Jedi teachings, I still end up feeling that handling her feelings in this way almost undevelops her character.

As for the second one? I think I head-desked when handmaiden chucked her clothes off and attempted to brawl me naked in the cargo hold. Then there was the creepily submissive Visas. I realise, however, that those are somewhat parallel to Disciple's "childhood crush that never wore off" and the fact that most of Bao-Dur's lines involve the words "Yes, General?". Combining that with the fact that there wasn't any culminating love scene I suppose I could say I don't think the second one handled romance well. But I suppose this is becoming less to do with female gamers and more to do with me going off on a tangent after reading Avery's post.

Bee Hoon
03-15-2008, 09:49 AM
A matter of personal taste, really. I personally would have been disappointed in a lot of games if the love arc was simply boy meets girl, and then both fall head over heels in love. That works in chick-flicks, but not so much in a realistic setting.

Not sure what games you been playing though. I find that female pc romances tend to have much more depth than the male. Again, a matter of personal taste.
While I agree with you all on Bastila's romance being exceedingly silly (I don't look like a kinrath pup! Sulk! Cry! Oh shaddup and snog me nao.); other female romances irked me. One example would be Jade Empire-- while I liked Sky and all, the romance felt rather rushed. NWN2 OC also sticks out like a sore thumb in my memory because of Casavir, who could have been developed much more as a character but was left talking about Old Owl Well until right up till the final boss -.-''' Not to mention that Bishop wasn't a romance option. Cry!

Pavlos
03-15-2008, 10:21 AM
While I agree with you all on Bastila's romance being exceedingly silly (I don't look like a kinrath pup! Sulk! Cry! Oh shaddup and snog me nao.); other female romances irked me. One example would be Jade Empire-- while I liked Sky and all, the romance felt rather rushed. NWN2 OC also sticks out like a sore thumb in my memory because of Casavir, who could have been developed much more as a character but was left talking about Old Owl Well until right up till the final boss -.-''' Not to mention that Bishop wasn't a romance option. Cry!

All of the NWN2 romances are like that, I'm afraid. They just come out of no where. For Elanee to sleep with my character, all she needed was a wall, the moon, and impending doom. Seeing as how I'd basically ignored her since Shandra came into my party I was more than a little confused...

I'm not sure which is worse, Obsidian's creepy stalker doesn't-go-anywhere unrequited love (as seen in KotOR II and MotB) or the painful courting rituals that the BioDevs seem to be obsessed with.

I'd probably go with the latter but then I'm an English student and if romance doesn't end with people throwing themselves on spears then it's just not interesting to me :p.

stingerhs
03-15-2008, 11:26 AM
gaming and teh ladies. now there's something that i do like to see. girls tend to just simply have fun while their gaming compared to guys. guys tend to be really competitive, and its not always very fun to play against them especially now that i'm older. girls, on the other hand, mostly seem to play games for the sheer enjoyment of them which is why i prefer to play with them online.

granted, that is a bit stereotypical of me to say so, but that does come more from my own observations more than anything, at least with the shooters. i haven't played very many other types of games online to really tell you how they compare to guys in other respective genres, but i can imagine that its a fairly similar attitude: girls play for fun while guys play for competition.

again, i'm being stereotypical, but that's really all i have to go on. ;)

Jvstice
03-15-2008, 12:45 PM
Haha, I loved that feature personally. I thought it added to the "this is not human society anymore, and you are not a human anymore" feel of the game. If you are a vampire, what does gender really mean anymore? You aren't going to be having kids, so that removes some chains. Blood is blood, and if you can use otherworldly powers to seduce some tasty girls... why not? I mean, I somehow doubt that vampires would view the world the same way humans do.

Although, as you said, the game would probably turn more straight girls off to it. I'm not straight though, so I am probably not the girl to be talking to.


I can see that to a point. I enjoyed it as it was, but it's not vampires that were indifferent to your gender, but the humans that the vampire main character was seducing for their blood. The only exceptions to people that care about your gender to be seduced, are the malkavian Jenette who only seduced men & male vampires, that guy with the broken down car in santa monica, and later Romeo, who only could be seduced by female vampires.

The rest were women who wanted your character if you just dropped the right line, no matter who you were (barring nosferatu). So those human NPC's weren't having a new vampiric life with inhuman motivations. So every single person that happens to be interested in your character isn't gay, isnt' straight, but bi. In an overwhelming majority of cases? Like I say. Didn't bother me, because I did enjoy the game, but I could see how that would limit their market of people that would get it.


I can see where you are coming from, but here is that from my perspective.
Bastila:
I disliked the Bastila arc personally and found it amusing at times, and this is coming from someone who seduced every chick she met in VTM:B.



Bastila's love was like a child discovering she had feet. It was suddenly the coolest thing in the world. She wanted to flex it and walk around. Her love was started by the bond, and then set on a roller coaster of hormones and emotion that she had probably been holding back since she was 10.

It was like watching a teenage girl, which is exactly what she is. And even though it makes sense, it makes for questionable dialog and a shallow character. Her puppy love was borderline obsessive, and depending on Male Revan's response she would only fall more into that spiral.


I'll agree with that assessment of Bastilla's personality and romance as opposed to Carths, as well as that Carth's was deeper, and what actually developed in the game was more akin to love instead of puppy love. But her arc did give you more story options as far as how the story turns out overall.

1) Bastilla goes dark side and wins you to the dark side from Lehon. She convinces you to kill everything and everyone that matters to you other than Canderous and the droids who follow you unconditionally.
2) She rejects you on Lehon, and when you meet her on the Star Forge, you have the option to redeem Bastilla because you "love" her and she "loves" you
3) You go your separate ways on Lehon, but when you meet on the star forge and redeem her in the fight say that because of everything that's happened you realize that what you had really wasn't love.
4) After going your separate ways ways on Lehon you realize that what you had with her wasn't love, and when you actually fight, you kill her.
5) Or you can not tell Bastilla through all of it that you have any feelings for her, then only admit to feeling something after you beat her and save her from malak and redeem her back to the light side.

The only Carth romance options are
1) Side with carth by going light side and make plans to one day build a life together when everything is over.
2) Side with Carth by going light side, but tell him that you're not interested in a life together and just want friendship.
3) Kill Carth whenever you go Dark Side so that you can rule republic space yourself with bastilla as your apprentice.

I've tried to get the Juhani dialogue 20 - 30 times too, but never managed to trigger that, so I can only assume there aren't many options for it either.

Most guys I have seen say the Bastila arc was better than the Carth arc because it had more "depth" or had more "love". What Bastila and male Revan had, in my opinion, was passion and hormones. Not love. They had the bond, but not the connection. The male Revan dialog to Bastila is over the top bad, and sounds like a 16 year old boy talking to his high school girlfriend. It felt pushed. It felt needy. It felt immature and high school teenager-y. I found it so silly that I don't play or acknowledge male Revan as a character since my first play through with him.

No. I've never thought more depth, and there were times that I thought Bastilla overbearing, and living a lie in the extreme, then blames Revan when he refuses to.

Carth is at least honest with himself and has better intentions, but melodramatic in the extreme. There's a reason for HK-47's "Mockery: I can never trust you or anyone ever again" speech. Also, whatever you say to Carth has less impact on overall gameplay than what you say to Bastilla. You have exactly 3 options I've ever found with Carth in at least 50 play throughs i've done. You have 5 options for bastilla that actually affect which characters live and die, the condition that people make it through in the end, and the like.

So are the Bastilla dialogues shallower? yes. Which did they put the most thought into though? I'd have to also say the bastilla romance dialogues because those are tied into critical junctures of the plot to a far greater degree.

I'm not trying to make a blanket statement here, or be insulting, but finding more depth in an obsessive, needy airhead like Bastila than in Carth or female Revan makes me curious about some of your views on females in general. Not pointing fingers at anyone, but just curious as to the reasons.

Carth:
I thought his arc with female Revan was alright. I certainly, to me, felt like it had been worked on more that Bastila's.

Carth had lost his wife and assumed he had lost his son. He was betrayed by the man he admired, and many of his comrades. A large portion of his own people turned on the Republic and attacked him. His character was wary, and very introverted due to this. It took the entire game to get him to admit he has growing feels for you, and even that was after the shock of discovering you were the very woman that killed his wife, separated him from his son, and caused the Jedi Civil War.

Carth was secretive, introverted, and needed his space. He wanted to reach out, but had problems doing so due to his past. Female Revan comes along and tries to get into his head and understand him. Carth slowly opening up to her piece by piece was part of an inner conflict with himself, so I can see why it didn't go the Bastila route of: "I am a girl and you are a guy! Wanna kiss and stay together forever!"

Both him and female Revan were tough people. They both knew there was a situation at hand bigger than both of them. Throwing themselves at each other could only cause problems, as it did with male Revan and Bastila. A platonic friendship is what it looked like, but I have always thought that love was both about loving someone, but also being able to be their best friend.


As I said with Bastila and Carth, the male stuff felt more high schoolish while the female felt more too the point and serious. Although, that is just my opinion. I loved the quiet and introvertness of the females in both Kotor games, but that is a matter of personal taste.


Not greater depth to Bastilla or your relationship as I said before. But the point of an RPG as opposed to other video game mediums is storytelling options. And that by the end, there's definitely the feeling that Revan and Bastilla are committed to make something work if that's the direction you decided to take it. With Carth, the most you can hope for is a hopeful ending in that regard, or you can be platonic. Of course as far as real relationships, I'd rather base one on the same things as female Revan and Carth than male Revan and Bastilla.

I see your point, and to in terms of the backstory story-telling by bioware Carth is a much better written and more developed character than Bastilla too.

Depends. A bunch of girls falling to their knees for you compared to some guys fighting for you seems to be a common gender tool. A lot of guys probably like the idea of a bunch of women falling for you, while the women tend to like guys amusingly fighting over you. I dunno, just something I personally noticed, and more of a matter of opinion than anything.

Atton's falling all over his knees over female exile just as much as Visas does the male one, except Visas actually comes to believe in the Exile's cause, where Atton obsesses over the exile in spite of both his beliefs and determination to save his own skin. As far as disciple, yes, he's not as needy as handmaiden, but he's also a blander character in general. And then Mira always makes it clear that she could take or leave the male Exile: that she doesn't like him in that way. Exile's falling all over her depending on the dialogue options you choose, but she never does.
While I agree with you all on Bastila's romance being exceedingly silly (I don't look like a kinrath pup! Sulk! Cry! Oh shaddup and snog me nao.); other female romances irked me. One example would be Jade Empire-- while I liked Sky and all, the romance felt rather rushed. NWN2 OC also sticks out like a sore thumb in my memory because of Casavir, who could have been developed much more as a character but was left talking about Old Owl Well until right up till the final boss -.-''' Not to mention that Bishop wasn't a romance option. Cry!
Jade empire's romances were ridiculous. I romanced all 3 of them in the same game, and none of them really cared until I enslaved the zombie/warrior spirit. Then later the only one to decide that the kingdom was worth keeping together was the princess when I decided to put blood in the fountain, and we slaughtered our lovers and rest of the party together before going on to rule the kingdom with an iron fist. In all this, the silk fox never really questioned my main character's sincerity when I played him as such utter scum like that?

stoffe
03-15-2008, 02:07 PM
So every single person that happens to be interested in your character isn't gay, isnt' straight, but bi. In an overwhelming majority of cases? Like I say. Didn't bother me, because I did enjoy the game, but I could see how that would limit their market of people that would get it.


People wouldn't know that until they've already bought and played the game though, so I don't think it would limit the customer base that much. :) Especially in a game with such a setting and story where there is so much else that could potentially turn away customers.

I remember that I was very skeptical of the game initially before I had tried it. The setting and story didn't sound very appealing from what I had read. Still, I got the game as shipping filler along with another game I wanted, and once I actually played it I never regretted getting it. :)

Sure, there's plenty of the "adolescent adult" material in the game, but that didn't bother me or make the game less worth playing.

Corinthian
03-15-2008, 03:39 PM
Here's a hint, lads: Video Game Romances have a range of good ranging from "Oh, this is so awful, I'd rather get kicked in the gonads. Twice." To "Well, on the plus side, she is a looker. So I'll try to ignore the bad dialog and various inconsistencies and get me some video game boobies."

Replace Gonads and Shes with Gender-appropriate nouns in the case of women. Although I still don't believe getting kicked in the crotch is as agonizing for women as it is for men, but whatever.

The problem is that 1: Most players of video games want to play the bloody game, not spend six hours chatting up some cutout character so they can get some jollies from it. So they make the romances short and quick, without much that's complicated. Usually, you get to shoot or carve someone in the course of it.

2: A game with both genders has to integrate at least two love interests for each gender. That's doubling the effort. So they pare it down some more.

3: Many games throw in some extra love interests, possibly including homosexual ones. So that makes it even worse. Rather than devoting all their time and effort to making one good romances, they're breaking it up into, say, four chunks.

4: Adult romances don't tend to be great material - not as much hormones, you see. So they do adolescent crap, follow in Romeo & Juliet's footsteps. Actually, it's not really their footsteps, it's more like huge gaping potholes in the road where everybody from Romeo and Juliet to West Side Story has walked through.

5: The Game devs could devote a lot of time and effort towards...Creating a convincing antagonist! Designing good levels! Interesting enemies! Fascinating, non-romantic dialog! Proper setup! Good missions! Or...a love interest that a significant portion of the playgroup will probably ignore because they just want to carve monsters into general fishbait, 30% of the rest will whine about because they don't like redheads, 10% will write erotic fanfics about, and the other 5% will enjoy it, and another 5% will get through it and then try to ignore it. Not precise numbers for every game.

Aash Li
03-15-2008, 04:07 PM
My biggest gripe is that the devs are relying too much on the outdated assumption that most of their playerbase is horny teenage boys. And then proceed to making all the female characters dressed in dental-floss and chainmail bikinis. While I like to have sexy outfits for my characters to dress in when Im not out slaying evil... armour is not one of the things I think needs to be sexy. Its ARMOUR its meant to protect you not make you look like a sex-pot. The obvious exclusion to this is cloth-wearing classes like spell-casters. I dont think every outfit that the arcanist girl wears has to be something youd see an alley-girl traipsing around in. >.< Sure I like the Black Mageweave in Warcrack, especially on a Blood Elf warlock, but its nice to have clothing sets that look like they could protect you from the elements if not a sword strike.

Next big gripe is the storylines. I could write a better storyline and quest series than half the crap I see in most MMOs. And the lack of personal development of characters. I want my character to be more than just a bunch of numbers and talent points. I want dialogue choices similar to Kotor.

Pirates of the Burning Sea had an absolutely great storylines in it. There was even a romance series in it. Its an MMO and they did it, and quite well. And that quest alone made me love the game... havent played it for a while because it was kinda making me snore. But I still loved that quest; and you werent forced to choose the opposite sex either. I was impressed, pleased and surprised all at the same time when I found that out. :3

Grinding... god I hate grinding so much. You want me to stay and play your game? Dont make me grind 80 levels, either through supposed questing or flat-out camping of the same mobs for 10 hours. Not everyone is a gold-farmer from Korea. >.>

Pavlos
03-15-2008, 04:09 PM
Adult romances don't tend to be great material - not as much hormones, you see. So they do adolescent crap, follow in Romeo & Juliet's footsteps. Actually, it's not really their footsteps, it's more like huge gaping potholes in the road where everybody from Romeo and Juliet to West Side Story has walked through.

I'm sorry to derail this thread but I'd like to know what the plot holes in Romeo and Juliet are.

To be honest, if the developers aren't going to do the romance in a realistic way then they may as well just leave it out and divert the energy into something more useful -- like an ending, for example.

Web Rider
03-15-2008, 06:38 PM
I'm sorry to derail this thread but I'd like to know what the plot holes in Romeo and Juliet are.

To be honest, if the developers aren't going to do the romance in a realistic way then they may as well just leave it out and divert the energy into something more useful -- like an ending, for example.

Depending on the game we're playing, a REAL romance is unrealistic. You can't up and go adventuring for a week or suddenly decide to get beat up by vampires and expect to have any sort of stable romance. Now, if you're partner can adventure with you, you run all sorts of risks of them dying, so lets be logical: you're not going to have a stable romance if you leave them at home, and you're not going to keep your partner around if they're just some random person not made for adventuring.

Now, if you're sticking to a small town, yeah, sure it(real romantic romance) works.

But I have to be honest, in any non-linear single-player RPG, after I do the main quest, after I do a variety of sub-quests, yeah, romance is a really nice way to waste time. It's also a great filler for all those times some NPC says "meet me back here in a week". But yeah, it's FILLER, if I wanted a game for romance, I'd play Leisure Suit Larry(kidding).


And in response to chainmail bikinis, I personally find an attractively done set of full-body armor much better than a loincloth.

True_Avery
03-15-2008, 08:50 PM
While I agree with you all on Bastila's romance being exceedingly silly (I don't look like a kinrath pup! Sulk! Cry! Oh shaddup and snog me nao.); other female romances irked me. One example would be Jade Empire-- while I liked Sky and all, the romance felt rather rushed. NWN2 OC also sticks out like a sore thumb in my memory because of Casavir, who could have been developed much more as a character but was left talking about Old Owl Well until right up till the final boss -.-''' Not to mention that Bishop wasn't a romance option. Cry!
Yep, I've heard the same thing about both games. Disappointing, but at least romance is a small part of a game's story usually.

Girls play for fun while guys play for competition.
I'd agree with that observation.

The rest were women who wanted your character if you just dropped the right line, no matter who you were (barring nosferatu). So those human NPC's weren't having a new vampiric life with inhuman motivations. So every single person that happens to be interested in your character isn't gay, isnt' straight, but bi. In an overwhelming majority of cases? Like I say. Didn't bother me, because I did enjoy the game, but I could see how that would limit their market of people that would get it.
I agree, it was overdone. I thought it was fun, but overdone.

I'll agree with that assessment of Bastilla's personality and romance as opposed to Carths, as well as that Carth's was deeper, and what actually developed in the game was more akin to love instead of puppy love. But her arc did give you more story options as far as how the story turns out overall.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. The Bastila romance may have been annoying, but it was longer and at least a little more detailed than the Carth.

I've tried to get the Juhani dialogue 20 - 30 times too, but never managed to trigger that, so I can only assume there aren't many options for it either.
Juhani is a lesbian, thus you can only unlock that dialog by playing a female character. You must save her, get to know her, ask her questions, and then do her side quest and complete it fully. After that, try and talk to her as often as possible and chances are you will unlock it along the way and at the very end at the Star Forge.

But, there is a catch. Juhani had a fully detailed romance with female Revan at one point in production of Kotor, but Bioware cut nearly all of it. Belaya was going to be her "lover" on Dantooine, and there was going to be dialog on losing her after the Sith Fleet destroyed the enclave. There were also going to be a few more side quests for Juhani as well. I find it disappointing that they cut the bulk of her romance, seeing as she is the first official lesbian character to be in Star Wars.

And in response to chainmail bikinis, I personally find an attractively done set of full-body armor much better than a loincloth.
Seconded.

I could respond to Corinthian's post, but there is so much I find wrong with it that I wont bother.

What I find interesting about this thread is that it is indeed showing different interests and desires from a game between the genders.

Corinthian
03-15-2008, 11:50 PM
I'm sorry to derail this thread but I'd like to know what the plot holes in Romeo and Juliet are.

To be honest, if the developers aren't going to do the romance in a realistic way then they may as well just leave it out and divert the energy into something more useful -- like an ending, for example.
I said POTholes, not PLOT holes. And what I meant was, the ground tread by Romeo and Juliet has been stomped on so much over the past couple hundred years so much that they're no longer footsteps, they're enormous holes in the road.

That's what I love about you, Avery. You go to the effort of saying I'm wrong, but are just too cool to say why.

Bee Hoon
03-15-2008, 11:59 PM
All of the NWN2 romances are like that, I'm afraid. They just come out of no where. For Elanee to sleep with my character, all she needed was a wall, the moon, and impending doom. Seeing as how I'd basically ignored her since Shandra came into my party I was more than a little confused...

I'm not sure which is worse, Obsidian's creepy stalker doesn't-go-anywhere unrequited love (as seen in KotOR II and MotB) or the painful courting rituals that the BioDevs seem to be obsessed with.

I'd probably go with the latter but then I'm an English student and if romance doesn't end with people throwing themselves on spears then it's just not interesting to me .Evil! :p But I admit that tragic stories have more oomph:P The romance with Gann was ok relatively, considering that they get a reasonably happy ending together and Gann managed to make the alleged straight Dev Dev swoon :3

At the start of the endgame sequence in the NWN2 OC, Casavir had a hissy fit at my character when she said that she wasn't sure that Bishop had turned. He went all "Journeying with you has been an ordeal! Dowan to see you any more! Can't wait till this is over!" despite that the fact that one module ago, he wanted to sleep with my character... :/


Jade empire's romances were ridiculous. I romanced all 3 of them in the same game, and none of them really cared until I enslaved the zombie/warrior spirit. Then later the only one to decide that the kingdom was worth keeping together was the princess when I decided to put blood in the fountain, and we slaughtered our lovers and rest of the party together before going on to rule the kingdom with an iron fist. In all this, the silk fox never really questioned my main character's sincerity when I played him as such utter scum like that?Because your PC is teh smexy and they cannot resist him? ;p


Yep, I've heard the same thing about both games. Disappointing, but at least romance is a small part of a game's story usually.But...but...I like well-written and well-voiced over romances! :(

Edit:
...but its nice to have clothing sets that look like they could protect you from the elements if not a sword strike.QFT!


Depending on the game we're playing, a REAL romance is unrealistic. You can't up and go adventuring for a week or suddenly decide to get beat up by vampires and expect to have any sort of stable romance. Now, if you're partner can adventure with you, you run all sorts of risks of them dying, so lets be logical: you're not going to have a stable romance if you leave them at home, and you're not going to keep your partner around if they're just some random person not made for adventuring.On the other hand, you'd be sure to bond with a person you pretty much spend 24/7 with, plus traumatic experiences can bring people closer blah blah ;p

Jae Onasi
03-16-2008, 12:34 AM
I can see that to a point. I enjoyed it as it was, but it's not vampires that were indifferent to your gender, but the humans that the vampire main character was seducing for their blood. The only exceptions to people that care about your gender to be seduced, are the malkavian Jenette who only seduced men & male vampires, that guy with the broken down car in santa monica, and later Romeo, who only could be seduced by female vampires.
Actually, I just seduced Jeannette a few days ago on a playthrough as a female Malkavian. I wasn't actually trying to, because I wanted the 'two sisters' to make up, and usually seducing Jeannette prevents that. I had a seduction of 5 and picked the "I'm really sorry, but I can't give you the locket, please understand" kinds of responses and all of the sudden the screen blacked out and many moans were heard. That may have come about because I'm using both the official 1.2 patch and the unofficial 4.9 patch by Wesp.

I would have appreciated a male blood doll or two, too. So the guys get some girls to mooch off of, and I don't get a hunky guy to do the same? Well, maybe Romero....

On the armor vs. chainmail bikinis--I definitely prefer the full-body armor. Chainmail bikinis look ridiculous. And having seen real women wearing chainmail bikinis, I can tell you they can be darned uncomfortable (hair gets tangled in the rings. I'll leave the rest to your imaginations), and they provide absolutely no protection, not even from the sun. Multi-ringlet sunburns ftl.

If Carth's romance arc had involved a little more completion in its unmodded state (at least a hug, for goodness' sake!) and perhaps a little more dialog (especially about how he deals with finding out she's Revan--that had to about kill him), it would have been hands down the best.

I'd love to see games marketed more to both women and men. What I do NOT want to see is devs thinking all women like sappy simple games and marketing those exclusively to us. I'd like to see the devs and producers ask those of us gals who game what it is we want to see done, and work those into current WIPs, and then market the games to both genders. There are increasing numbers of female gamers and older/more mature gamers. The savvy producers/devs hopefully will figure that out soon and create games that can appeal not only to guys but also gals, and that will help improve their bottom line, too.

The new editor for PCGamer magazine is female--I wonder what/if that will have an impact on the gaming culture and game development.

Web Rider
03-16-2008, 12:37 AM
On the other hand, you'd be sure to bond with a person you pretty much spend 24/7 with, plus traumatic experiences can bring people closer blah blah ;p

I'm sure you could make some great friends, and possibly some love interests for AFTER the storyline is done, but a lot of those "close calls" can also give people "live fast" perspectives on life, leaning them more towards one-night-stands than lasting romance/

Jae Onasi
03-16-2008, 12:49 AM
You'd be surprised at what a crisis will do to 2 people. I can easily see 2 people falling for each other, with it being real and not a one-night-stand kind of thing.

Bee Hoon
03-16-2008, 12:50 AM
I'm sure you could make some great friends, and possibly some love interests for AFTER the storyline is done, but a lot of those "close calls" can also give people "live fast" perspectives on life, leaning them more towards one-night-stands than lasting romance.True, but depends on more of how you play the character:) Your character might not want to die before expressing her/his feelings. It would be pretty awesome if they gave the gamer the choice to choose what kind of romance it is though, i.e. true love or a brief fling :P

Web Rider
03-16-2008, 02:13 AM
True, but depends on more of how you play the character:) Your character might not want to die before expressing her/his feelings. It would be pretty awesome if they gave the gamer the choice to choose what kind of romance it is though, i.e. true love or a brief fling :P

true, that'd be a pretty cool option. Eventually they'll integrate dictionaries into games and characters will have an AI capable of processing user-made statements(if at first they still have to be typed), and then we'll REALLY get to romance characters as we want.

PoiuyWired
03-16-2008, 10:55 AM
OMG B0oBz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Have to say that, its the standard line you use in a female gamer related thread.

Well, to be fair I do think that there is a reasonable number of female gamers out there that are nto casual gamers who are only into games like DDR and bust-a-move.

That having said, there seems to be a lack of guts for devs to produce any complex games gearing towards females, for obvious reasons... it has never been done before.

And quite frankly, you would probably sell moar copies if you spend some considerably less time gearing towards the guys that yell "hmmm... nice bewbz" since females are usually not too keen on simple things like "hmmm... package" while a bunch of juggling females can make decent sales for some reasons. But yeah, there are games that includes annoying and stinkin effort to hog the female population into playing. Obvious ones would be the newer FF series with those spineless semi-girly male characters that is geared/fashioned to attract asian chicks. On the side note, some anime do use the same tactic to hog female audience.

I guess the functional female gamers would focus more on games that they would like to play rather than those so-called hot guys in games, which is actually of little difference from the regular "omg bewbz" chipmonk cries. I mean, the guys can still be hot and the girls can still jiggle in the games (for those who prefers it that way) but it seems that there is the trend of using massive multimedia art to sugarcoat the lack of content in a game. Hack, some new games(esp rpg) are better off as a story/anime/etc basically a series of cutscenes and a complex storyline with the "side quest" of running around finding things and move yoru character for a few minutes to activate the next story sequence. Well yes, for some reason this does sttract some newer female gamers, but I would think that its just a bunch of anime fans would don't mind touching the control pad once in a while at best, and little difference from those who would play cooking mama all day, if not worse.

As for games geared towards mature audiences, yes it exists, and is growing as it seems. However, there are those stupid stkinin braindead so-called moral crusade pieces of sheet who would try to pull a "games are evil" approach towards games of a mature audience, probably the same stupid crowd(or spawnlings thereof) that suggests DnD players would summon devils and sacrifice neighbour's cats to their cheetos. Look at how them jerks complain about the whole "sexbox/mass effect" drama? To put it simply, non gamers, are not mature enough to accept mature gamers still, for some stupid reasons. I guess its could be worse since there are no inbred rednecks protesting on a gamer's funeral ... yet.

Aash Li
03-16-2008, 11:02 AM
sacrifice cats to cheetos... lol

Bee Hoon
03-16-2008, 11:07 AM
true, that'd be a pretty cool option. Eventually they'll integrate dictionaries into games and characters will have an AI capable of processing user-made statements(if at first they still have to be typed), and then we'll REALLY get to romance characters as we want.At which point we should back away slowly from the computer and spend more time interacting with real-life people;p I, for one, would find that somewhat unnerving! :p

And quite frankly, you would probably sell moar copies if you spend some considerably less time gearing towards the guys that yell "hmmm... nice bewbz" since females are usually not too keen on simple things like "hmmm... package" while a bunch of juggling females can make decent sales for some reasons.I do not understand. Clarification would be healthy here.

Obvious ones would be the newer FF series with those spineless semi-girly male characters that is geared/fashioned to attract asian chicks.As an Asian chick, I take offense from that statement.

Hack, some new games(esp rpg) are better off as a story/anime/etc basically a series of cutscenes and a complex storyline with the "side quest" of running around finding things and move yoru character for a few minutes to activate the next story sequence. Well yes, for some reason this does sttract some newer female gamers, but I would think that its just a bunch of anime fans would don't mind touching the control pad once in a while at best, and little difference from those who would play cooking mama all day, if not worse.Fyi, you probably mean "heck", which an unreliable acquaintance told me was a portmanteau of hell and f***.

I would also like to point out that a goodly number of people here (this is the KotOR forums, after all) enjoy games with powerful stories which do not require continuous button mashing. As a fan of such games, I do not also engage in "cooking mama", whatever *that* is supposed to be.

Serpentine Cougar
03-16-2008, 11:38 AM
Storyline is almost the only reason I play video games - I would imagine there's plenty of guys who are more interested in stories than shooting, blood, and action, but the majority of course do.

About writing characters from the opposite gender, I think it's easier for women to write believably from a male perspective than for men to write from a female one. This is just my experience, though.

Regarding female characters "getting the shaft," it's not just in games, I think. They're hard to find in other entertainment, too, whether it be books, movies, TV shows, etc. In the Wheel of Time books, for example, almost all the female characters seem to have the same personality: fiery, irascible, and perpetually annoyed at men. Female characters that actually have strength of character, and not just tough-as-nails men with boobs, are to find anywhere, in my opinion. Women don't have to kick butt to be strong characters. Then, men don't really either, but not too many people seem to realize that.

I've only ever met two girls (one of which is my sister, whom I have indoctinated into nerd-dom) who don't think video games are stupid. So my experience doesn't allude to any shift in the gender difference of the gaming population, but if you all say so....

There's a site I found with some interesting thoughts and observations regarding female characters, role-players and gamers, but it seems to be offline at the moment. You can still see it with Google's cache though: this site (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:xL1EQoXAJC0J:www.geocities.com/poetess47/oocindex.html+site:www.geocities.com/poetess47/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1).

Aash Li
03-16-2008, 12:40 PM
As a fan of such games, I do not also engage in "cooking mama", whatever *that* is supposed to be.

I think this was Wireds lame attempt at mocking people who like to role play in MMOs... or maybe role playing in general. But since the majority of his post was disjointed its hard to tell really.

Jvstice
03-16-2008, 02:09 PM
People wouldn't know that until they've already bought and played the game though, so I don't think it would limit the customer base that much. :) Especially in a game with such a setting and story where there is so much else that could potentially turn away customers.

I remember that I was very skeptical of the game initially before I had tried it. The setting and story didn't sound very appealing from what I had read. Still, I got the game as shipping filler along with another game I wanted, and once I actually played it I never regretted getting it. :)

Sure, there's plenty of the "adolescent adult" material in the game, but that didn't bother me or make the game less worth playing.

I guess that's true. If that would get to someone, there would be so many things that would bother them enough to hate the game before they reached that point.


Yep, I've heard the same thing about both games. Juhani is a lesbian, thus you can only unlock that dialog by playing a female character. You must save her, get to know her, ask her questions, and then do her side quest and complete it fully. After that, try and talk to her as often as possible and chances are you will unlock it along the way and at the very end at the Star Forge.

But, there is a catch. Juhani had a fully detailed romance with female Revan at one point in production of Kotor, but Bioware cut nearly all of it. Belaya was going to be her "lover" on Dantooine, and there was going to be dialog on losing her after the Sith Fleet destroyed the enclave. There were also going to be a few more side quests for Juhani as well. I find it disappointing that they cut the bulk of her romance, seeing as she is the first official lesbian character to be in Star Wars.



I have tried this in all my attempts to play through it different ways. About the only thing I haven't ever tried is killing her off at the first meeting. I'll have to give it another attempt again one day soon. It has been a while since i've played k1. Of course, I have to get a way to get k1 to work with vista, or get an xbox copy.
Actually, I just seduced Jeannette a few days ago on a playthrough as a female Malkavian. I wasn't actually trying to, because I wanted the 'two sisters' to make up, and usually seducing Jeannette prevents that. I had a seduction of 5 and picked the "I'm really sorry, but I can't give you the locket, please understand" kinds of responses and all of the sudden the screen blacked out and many moans were heard. That may have come about because I'm using both the official 1.2 patch and the unofficial 4.9 patch by Wesp.

I would have appreciated a male blood doll or two, too. So the guys get some girls to mooch off of, and I don't get a hunky guy to do the same? Well, maybe Romero....

On the armor vs. chainmail bikinis--I definitely prefer the full-body armor. Chainmail bikinis look ridiculous. And having seen real women wearing chainmail bikinis, I can tell you they can be darned uncomfortable (hair gets tangled in the rings. I'll leave the rest to your imaginations), and they provide absolutely no protection, not even from the sun. Multi-ringlet sunburns ftl.

If Carth's romance arc had involved a little more completion in its unmodded state (at least a hug, for goodness' sake!) and perhaps a little more dialog (especially about how he deals with finding out she's Revan--that had to about kill him), it would have been hands down the best.

I'd love to see games marketed more to both women and men. What I do NOT want to see is devs thinking all women like sappy simple games and marketing those exclusively to us. I'd like to see the devs and producers ask those of us gals who game what it is we want to see done, and work those into current WIPs, and then market the games to both genders. There are increasing numbers of female gamers and older/more mature gamers. The savvy producers/devs hopefully will figure that out soon and create games that can appeal not only to guys but also gals, and that will help improve their bottom line, too.

The new editor for PCGamer magazine is female--I wonder what/if that will have an impact on the gaming culture and game development.

Regarding vampire lolz. That has to be because of the mods. I usually play unmodded because it willl let me get higher stats so that I can finish with everything maxed out. It's been over 2 years since I've had any mods installed for my vtm:b playthroughs.

I can see how the changes you suggest would go a long way towards improving the story telling. And you're right as far as that goes. I dont' want them to stop keeping males in minds as part of their audience & making rpgs that ignore male preferences any more than they do females now, but taking a little more time to give it a broader appeal is a good thing.

Web Rider
03-16-2008, 03:07 PM
At which point we should back away slowly from the computer and spend more time interacting with real-life people;p I, for one, would find that somewhat unnerving! :p

I imagine at some point EHarmony and WoW will integrate and then you can get all your fantasy role-playing needs and gamer-nerd guys can meet gamer-nerd girls....not that players need an ACTUAL reason for saying "ASL" anymore.

And quite frankly, you would probably sell moar copies if you spend some considerably less time gearing towards the guys that yell "hmmm... nice bewbz" since females are usually not too keen on simple things like "hmmm... package" while a bunch of juggling females can make decent sales for some reasons. But yeah, there are games that includes annoying and stinkin effort to hog the female population into playing. Obvious ones would be the newer FF series with those spineless semi-girly male characters that is geared/fashioned to attract asian chicks. On the side note, some anime do use the same tactic to hog female audience.
Actually, there's just as many white girls who dig those "bishonen" guys. Visit an art site sometime. The pretty-boy look is rather typical of male, non-adult characters in just about everything that comes out of Japan in terms of anime and games. Oh, and remember, Japan=/=Asia.

Aash Li
03-16-2008, 04:11 PM
Eharmony and WoW... that would be hilarious... entire profiles written by leet kiddies in net-speak. lol

Or something like:

Level 70 warlock in search of pretty level 70 warrioress for fun and adventure in the Outlands.

xD

Inyri
03-16-2008, 04:18 PM
Warrioress.... :rofl:

eHarmony's such a joke, though. :p

....almost as much a joke as WoW! *runs away before she's stoned for blasphemy*

Web Rider
03-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Warrioress.... :rofl:

eHarmony's such a joke, though. :p

....almost as much a joke as WoW! *runs away before she's stoned for blasphemy*

but it's true because it's funny!...or...wait, is it the other way around?

PoiuyWired
03-17-2008, 01:31 AM
I think this was Wireds lame attempt at mocking people who like to role play in MMOs... or maybe role playing in general. But since the majority of his post was disjointed its hard to tell really.

Well definitely not! And I roleplay quite a bit too, in mmo or tabletop with cheetos. Storyline is good, and roleplaying is definitely good. But when a game is basically nothing other than a series of movies and cutscenes with little playability features, then it is NOT> And that is what seems to be happening, especially when it comes to some once-wonderful rpg series. I mean, the "playing" part between the storylines should be taken care of also, not just a railroad along the story with some pitstops for smelling the flowers.

What I am saying is that the current game dev seems to deal with female gamers in the following ways:

1) simple games gearing towards casual/female gamers. (which can be both a good and bad thing, since some of them can be fun)

2) Artwork, and cute girly-guys (female version of chicks with bewbs)

And yet you see no real devement to the core of the matter: namely gamelpay.


Actually, there's just as many white girls who dig those "bishonen" guys. Visit an art site sometime. The pretty-boy look is rather typical of male, non-adult characters in just about everything that comes out of Japan in terms of anime and games. Oh, and remember, Japan=/=Asia.

Well yes, they seem to be more and more popular, just like those Yaoi doujin comics for girls...

But yes, remember that japanese seems to create most of the asia style games that are popular in asia, same goes for most popular asian anime/cartoons/comics. So basically their style do seem to have leading influence and impact of the gaming trend. This, and the fact that japanese dev tend to (mostly) develop games for japanese style and populance, means that the current japanese trend tend to spread around asia quite a bit.

On the other hand, other asian game dev would quite commonly have similar style to the popular trend, which is started by the japanese games/anime/etc, and thus, their production bears similarities to the japanese products of the time, since thats what is/was trendy afterall.

Its like, normal asian males would usually be able to at least name some of the gundams and respective storyline of their generation, in whatever translatied version they used to.

On the side note. I am asian, and currently in asia, so sometimes all I need to reassure my information is to pick up a few mags down in 7-11 and/or look at what the kids are playing next to me in the train/MickeyD/etc.

Jae Onasi
03-17-2008, 01:43 AM
I should clarify what I meant by mature--I meant 'not immature', rather than "mature" rating on games. I'd rather _not_ see naked people humping each other all night in glorious pixelated detail. I'd like to have some games with a little thought put into character development and richness of gameplay--good graphics are nice, too, but if I had to sacrifice something in a game, I'd sacrifice stunning graphics for a great story any day.

RedHawke
03-17-2008, 04:43 AM
see naked people humping each other all night in glorious pixelated detail.
Now hold on Jae! You might be on to something here!!

I sense this idea is pure genious!!! :xp:

*Flees thread*

PoiuyWired
03-17-2008, 11:53 AM
^^
It has been done, animated hentai. Not something that I would likie to see in a game usually.

But yeah, I would rather have better gameplay than the shiney blings. Obviously there has to be a reasonable balance of everything. I mean, even I would be annoyed if someone comes up with atari style graphics, where I would have to guess what everything is.

Rogue Nine
03-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Pfah! If I wanted a good story, I'd read a book! Give me shinies and bling bling any day! :xp:

Inyri
03-17-2008, 12:12 PM
You obviously have a greater attention spam than your male compatriots.

Hang on, did I say "attention spam"? Hmm... I'm sure that must have been unintentional! I wouldn't dare be suggesting something about male gamers... :p

Rogue Nine
03-17-2008, 12:22 PM
That we like spam? ¯\O_o/¯

But seriously, bling bling is where it's at. Oh, and good playability is key as well. If it's got a crap control system, then it's probably not worth playing, no matter how pretty it is or how good of a story it's got.

*steals Inyri's root beer lollys and fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeees*

Inyri
03-17-2008, 12:49 PM
That we like spam? ¯\O_o/¯:0 I would never suggest that! *dons halo*

But seriously, bling bling is where it's at. Oh, and good playability is key as well. If it's got a crap control system, then it's probably not worth playing, no matter how pretty it is or how good of a story it's got.Obviously. The key is having a happy medium of both. Or rather than medium, how about just awesome in both departments? :p

*steals Inyri's root beer lollys and fleeeeeeeeeeeeeeees*Give those back! >.>

Web Rider
03-17-2008, 01:18 PM
^^
It has been done, animated hentai. Not something that I would likie to see in a game usually.
something that I suspect is already in several games...and worse.

Jae Onasi
03-17-2008, 02:48 PM
Now hold on Jae! You might be on to something here!!

I sense this idea is pure genious!!! :xp:

*Flees thread*
:lol: You are SO male.

Darth333
03-17-2008, 10:32 PM
if I had to sacrifice something in a game, I'd sacrifice stunning graphics for a great story any day.
Me too...and I'd sacrifice the option to be able to play as female too if it means a better story.

I like to be able to play as female but I can also do without it. It all depends on the type of game. Too much freedom can kill the story too (just look at Oblivion: it's fun for freedom but it lacks in other aspects). Having a predetermined PC sex (and even appearance) can be relevant to the storyline and can sometimes give it a less anonymous feeling. I recently played the Witcher and have not been bothered at all by having to play as a womanizer male with long greasy white hair.

Also, as a female I enjoy playing a male char not *edit: only* for the eyecandy (can't really say the Kotor males were really pleasing to the eye :p) but because I feel it's easier to act more freely as I tend to relate less to male chars and I have a lot of fun trying options I wouldn't normally try - per example, I just can't play a mean and evil female char with big muscles and no brains and who enjoys stealing lunch credits in an RPG as it just makes me feel bad! :p - In fact, when I have the option to play either sex in an RPG, I normally play a good female character first (which tends to put emphasis on stealth skills or magic and diplomacy) and then male chars (of all kinds, from the total eccentric nerd to the huge brute or simply a normal guy) almost exclusively and it's a lot of fun!

Why is Obsidian apparently taking a step back and going to a male-only character in their just-announced Alpha Protocol? Before calling it a step back, I'll wait and see how the story is developed.

mimartin
03-17-2008, 11:14 PM
Also, as a female I enjoy playing a male char not for the eyecandy (can't really say the Kotor males were really pleasing to the eye :p) but because I feel it's easier to act more freely as I tend to relate less to male chars and I have a lot of fun trying options I wouldn't normally try I do exact opposite. Given the option, I normally play a female PC in an RPG, for much the same reason. I find it easier to be noble and easier to talk and listen to the NPC. Playing a male PC I get impatient and tune them out after a while, much as I do in real life. As a female PC I have more patients, that and I don’t like staring a guys butt for 40 something hours.

In fact, when I have the option to play either sex in an RPG, I normally play a good female character first (which tends to put emphasis on stealth skills or magic and diplomacy) and then male chars (of all kinds, from the total eccentric nerd to the huge brute or simply a normal guy) almost exclusively.Same here, but in Mass Effect I enjoyed both classes as a female PC better, had something to do with the PC lines being voiced over by Jennifer Hale.

Too much freedom can kill the story too (just look at Oblivion: it's fun for freedom but it lacks in other aspects). How dare you speak ill of Oblivion, yet you are completely correct.

I don’t believe males or female are all that different when it comes to gaming. A good story can hide some of the other imperfections of a game. I just want a game with a good story and some of the "shinies and bling bling" Rogue Nine was writing about.

MasterWaffle
03-17-2008, 11:35 PM
...per example, I just can't play a mean and evil female char with big muscles and no brains and who enjoys stealing lunch credits in an RPG as it just makes me feel bad!

I am exactly the same. I've tried several times to play the game as an evil female but my guilty conscience combined with Carth giving me the hairy eyeball always sets me straight. I just can't be evil!

Well, not in a game. ;)

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-17-2008, 11:37 PM
I am exactly the same. I've tried several times to play the game as an evil female but my guilty conscience combined with Carth giving me the hairy eyeball always sets me straight. I just can't be evil!

Well, not in a game. ;)I do the same thing >_>

Although KotOR's idea of "evil" is usually just being a jerk to people.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 12:07 AM
I personally exclusively play Male when I'm given a choice. Playing outside my gender makes me feel awkward, especially if I do the romances. Gender Benders really aren't for me.

Inyri
03-18-2008, 12:14 AM
I personally exclusively play Male when I'm given a choice. Playing outside my gender makes me feel awkward, especially if I do the romances. Gender Benders really aren't for me.A little insecure?

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 12:35 AM
Not really, no. If I were actually insecure, I wouldn't have posted how I don't especially like playing games outside my gender. I just don't feel the need to play a female in any way. I mean, really, the draw on them for the KotoR series is..

In Kotor 1, you get to have a romance with Carth, the most annoying character in the game after Mission Vao! Ooh, more listening to him whining about his terrible past. And if you go Darkside, you don't even get to carve him into fishbait. Furthermore, he's a living reminder of the existence of Kaidan, my bane.

In KotoR 2, on the other hand, you deal with Atton, Disciple, and Sion, all at the same time. Now, I missed losing Disciple as I always played Male, he might have been perfectly respectable as a character. But the sheer squickiness of Sion made up for him. Sleeps with Vibroblades also wants to sleep with you. Maybe we can get some Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader slash fanfics up here, just to tighten the squick up a notch. Also, Atton was Carth's Sequel, with an even Darker and Sadder past, it's like a walking Wangst festival in there.

And then there's Mass Effect. Well, in terms of romances, I could have a romance with Ashley, Liara, or...Kaidan. My Bane. Since I'm not pathetic enough to play the freaking female just so I can enjoy boinking the Rubber Forehead Alien Chick with another female, I played the male. Didn't have an opportunity for more playthroughs anyway.

Besides, I tend to play Brute Force characters, and Brute Force really doesn't fit alongside these petite females. It's kind of like seeing an eight-foot tall guy decked in gold platemail sneaking up behind somebody with a dagger or slinging spells. It just doesn't look quite right. Especially since they always tend to go flying whenever I hit them with my gun in Mass Effect, like some kind of ragdoll.

I wasn't aware not having a fetish for playing your opposite sex in a video game was a sign of sexual insecurity anyway.

Jae Onasi
03-18-2008, 01:25 AM
Psychoanalysis thread is two doors down and to the right.

Tommycat
03-18-2008, 01:44 AM
Just as not all male gamers are the same, I suspect all female gamers are not the same.

From my observations it comes down to footwear.
I have 3 categories, High Heels, Pumps and flats, and combat boots.

High heels are generally the female gamers that go for the ultra sappy story lines that would make a guy puke, then burn the game for fear of accidentally reinstalling it on their system. These female gamers are few and far between because they are more likely to be playing head games on Myspace than actually playing a video game. Primarily because the gaming industry doesn't really put that much time into developing games for such a small segment of gamers.

Pumps and flats are the ones I would categorize as female gamers that regularly play games for a good story. This may be the biggest segment of female gamers(from my observations). They prefer the sensible games that do not tax their system to extremes, but rather tax their intellect. Many of their games are in the category of RPG, but have the occasional drift into other areas. There are more games that are geared to suit these women as the games fall into a shared category between male and female gamers.

Combat boots are the females that like their gore and violence as much as most guys do. Graphics are pretty high on their list. They like proving to the guys that they can be just as much of a gamer as they are(or better). They are just as competitive, but usually like a good story for their SP games. They just prioritize slightly more on the graphics. This makes up a smaller percentage of the female gamers out there. The good news for these gamers is there are a lot of good games for them because this makes up a large portion of games male gamers like. The bad news is the games are designed around male gamers.

Now by no means are these categories related to their real footwear. I categorized them based on the women I see at metal shows. High heels were there to look pretty, Flats were there to enjoy the music/show. Combat boots were the ones likely to get in the pit and throw a few people around.

Also I reserve the right to be completely wrong. Please note that these are generalities, and by no means a true definition of what female gamers are. Nor does it imply that because a gamer fits mostly in one category that they may not also fit into a part of another category.

As for my wife: She fits more into the combat boots gamer. She likes gore, and mayhem. Cool rendered explosions and heavy violence are on her top categories. As for at the metal shows, She's more of the high heels for some, and others the flats...

Jae Onasi
03-18-2008, 01:47 AM
I'm a New Balance sneaker gal myself.

RedHawke
03-18-2008, 02:11 AM
I personally exclusively play Male when I'm given a choice. Playing outside my gender makes me feel awkward, especially if I do the romances. Gender Benders really aren't for me.
I'm just the opposite... I can't stare at a guys backside in games like KotOR it gets to me after a while... say 5-10 min.

It also could have to do with, in part, becuause I have played more females in PnP RPG's than males... it is quite fun and challenging for me to try and understand and role play the opposite sex. My only male characters for example in PnP Star Wars was a force-using Ex Imperial Admiral and a Variable Combat Droid (do droids even count?) that would put our beloved HK-47 to shame in the gun toting psycopath department.

But if we don't have a choice and we have to play a male I'll still play it, and enjoy it if the story is good.

:lol: You are SO male.
:D

Tommycat
03-18-2008, 06:37 AM
I'm a New Balance sneaker gal myself.
I was going to put it down as "comfy shoes" but I figured some feel that combats are more comfy than runnin shoes.

Basically the more male the shoe, the closer they get to male gaming styles. :lol:

Bee Hoon
03-18-2008, 07:01 AM
Flip flops, with a rare lapse into heels from time to time. Depends on whether the sap is well-written or not though!

Inyri
03-18-2008, 10:11 AM
I was going to put it down as "comfy shoes" but I figured some feel that combats are more comfy than runnin shoes.

Basically the more male the shoe, the closer they get to male gaming styles. :lol:That's a very curious observation. When I was younger (jr high, high school) I used to wear Vans/Airwalks, and I typically played shooters and such. Now I've matured into wearing Sketchers (I keep trying to get away from brand names, but they're sooo comfortable... :p) and I've moved more into RPGs. I think there's definitely something to what kind of shoe people wear and what it says about their personality.

PoiuyWired
03-18-2008, 02:28 PM
Hmmm... its shoes and girls again... :)
Well it would be nice to date a combat boots female gamer, at least I know who to pk when someone forgot to wash the dishes on her day. :)

But yeah, I guess it is possable to develop some games that are more competable with the "Pumps and flats" girls and yet not to be too mushy to kill off male population. I would think that the old adventure game type would work, think monkey island with an updated interface. Also, maybe a less action/zombie oriented resident evil style adventure... Well, I am not saying repackaging residentevil with slower zombies and replace zombies with kittens, but the genre would work for females i guess (saying that cause a certain girl likes monkey island, then again she is also not affected by gore). Note that these types of girls can easily be conditioned to play Super Smash Bros. with decent ability, or monster hunter (its the happy teamwork that gets them, and cats).

And yeah, sorry about those with highheels, I mean please keep camwhorring on myspace and don't taint the game world (it is annoying indeed to be given a link to some "look i am sooo pretty" site while I am grinding thinking that it is some site about character build or soemthing, especially one with the face like a corkmongler with a tiara... and I would rather be rickroll'd). Plus, you don't really need an mmo that focuses on being a mean beach drama queen, you can just do it on the sims and all is fine with the world.

On kotor. I think male/female both work wonderfully in k1, and the whole carth/revan ordeal is developed, and there is some kind of emotional development going on. The piece of perverted bantha poodoo sorry excuse of a pondscum stalker mical really gets on my nerve in k2, and I keep trying to find a way to kill him thru the most painful way possable, can't I just dump it outside the airlock? Sion is an interesting(and warped) case that is actually alternative enough to be interesting, as do homegal Mira and even that Han-wannabe Atton is somewhat acceptable.

True_Avery
03-18-2008, 04:06 PM
I wear these like 5 or 6 year old worn out sneakers. Comfy.
Other times I'll wear these big steel toed hiking boots.
High-heels can go throw themselves into a fire.

And yeah, sorry about those with highheels, I mean please keep camwhorring on myspace and don't taint the game world (it is annoying indeed to be given a link to some "look i am sooo pretty" site while I am grinding thinking that it is some site about character build or soemthing, especially one with the face like a corkmongler with a tiara... and I would rather be rickroll'd). Plus, you don't really need an mmo that focuses on being a mean beach drama queen, you can just do it on the sims and all is fine with the world.
You win an internet.

--

I actually liked the Sion arc, even though it was small. He was an immortal held together by his own malice and hate, not even alive anymore. He ended up seeing parts of himself in Exile, another war torn, destroyed person. He saw her desire to push forward and keep living, while he had already given up and fell completely to his own hatred. In the end, he admitted he was still human and still wanted to redeem himself, and he did. It didn't kill him, but allowed him to finally pass on instead of staying in the clay-like body.

It may have been a little cheesy to some that he did it though love, but I guess that is personal taste. I don't think it was as crazy as some are making it out to be, because many people I've noticed can't seem to get around the fact he looks like he put himself through a wood chipper. "Arg I wanna sleep with you!" Seems to be the response of people who confuse sex with love.

Inyri
03-18-2008, 04:34 PM
Other times I'll wear these big steel toed hiking boots.I had steel toed boots for work over the summer... They're surprisingly comfy. And PW ruined what would've been an awesome post by mentioning the sims before I could. >.>

Also never worn legitimate high heels. I have enough trouble keeping my balance without doing something silly like making the surface area of me feet smaller. Women in general confuse me greatly. Then again, so do men. Human beings confuse me greatly with their inefficiency and overall silliness. :p

Jae Onasi
03-18-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm a great believer in not wearing footwear that is going to actually damage my feet (i.e. high heels).

Perhaps it's a competitive/cooperative difference between guys and gals. Maybe it's because there's a tendancy for gals to mature faster that affects gaming differences. When I was a kid, I liked shooting Asteroids, playing Tank, and making Pac-Man munch the blinking ghosts. I probably would have enjoyed the shooter games we have available now very much. Now that I've reached permanently-29-status, I don't want to spend hours upon hours learning how to do a headshot just right to maximize points in a shooter game--that's boring. I'd much rather work my way through a story or see how my choices help develop a character.

I was thinking about what I liked about Guild Wars so much, since it's so much less story-driven than SP RPGs. I realized that while I do get things done adventuring alone and some of the grinding is rather boring, I really like the social aspect. It's fun to chat with a fellow party member or 3 or 8 about how to overcome X boss, strategize about how to conquer a tough area, and help each other out on missions.

Something else I've noticed in GW is that there are a _lot_ of females playing that game. Kids who are in junior or senior high now have grown up playing Playstation, Xbox, and other systems, and I don't get the same feeling that today's girls are going to grow up and put away video games as silly like I did when I was growing up. In addition, gaming is starting to be viewed as a legitimate form of entertainment for adults as well as kids, perhaps something that's an alternative to watching TV or movies. I don't think it's there all the way yet--some of the women in my church think because I game that I'm not completely mature. However, I think that will change as current gamers mature and the games themselves become more mature.

Totenkopf
03-18-2008, 11:51 PM
Really, if some of you guys are fixating on pixelated T&A, you probably need a break from your gaming habits. :xp: :p

hellhawk
03-19-2008, 12:02 AM
Games like Final Fantasy also leave you no choice with regards to the main character

yeah im a guy and i gotta say there are some games guys like where you mplay as a girl, like super violent medevil based games like heavenly sword. id tottaly go for that. i really dont care if the characters a guy or girl. heck i even own a game where all the characters speak japenese or somethin!

anyway my pitch to the thread is its gonna be hard for industrys to adapt to girl gamers, because there are all sorts of personalitys of girls. just look maround a high school. there are the ultra popular girls how are hangin out with the ultra popular guys, theres the group of girls who never get in trouble (no offense if there are any here) but seriously you never even hear them udder like crap at all. there is even a group who dig nerds. (lucky for most a the guys on this forum, huh?) there are also some wild crazy wierdish ones that have personalites somewhat like middle popular guys, anbd hang with them. anyway there are all sorts meaning they are going to have make alot of different games to keep it balanced.

Web Rider
03-19-2008, 12:23 AM
Something else I've noticed in GW is that there are a _lot_ of females playing that game.

Now, are there a lot of girls playing GW, or are a lot of people playing as girls?

Serpentine Cougar
03-19-2008, 01:16 AM
Pfah! If I wanted a good story, I'd read a book! Give me shinies and bling bling any day! :xp:
Ah, but a book can't have multiple endings and branching storylines, can it? (Unless it's a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Book, I suppose...) As much as I love books, I love stories in games ever-so-slightly more because of their interactive nature, which makes me feel more like I'm actually there.

stoffe
03-19-2008, 07:05 AM
Now, are there a lot of girls playing GW, or are a lot of people playing as girls?

I'd say C) Both of the above is probably closest to the truth. Seems to be a pretty good mix in the guild where Jae and I are members of at least. Ranging from teenagers to mothers with adult children (who are also playing). MMOs in general seems to have a much broader appeal across gender and age categories than most other games.

Bee Hoon
03-19-2008, 07:40 AM
theres the group of girls who never get in trouble (no offense if there are any here)No comment :p

but seriously you never even hear them udder like crap at all.Nyeh? I do not understand.

High heels aren't *that* bad, but only wear them if you're sure that you'll have somewhere to sit:/

Tommycat
03-19-2008, 08:08 AM
I'd say C) Both of the above is probably closest to the truth. Seems to be a pretty good mix in the guild where Jae and I are members of at least. Ranging from teenagers to mothers with adult children (who are also playing). MMOs in general seems to have a much broader appeal across gender and age categories than most other games.
I would chalk that up to there being more play styles available. Cooperative to solo, to competitive. The hack and slash to the careful planned out attack.

Jae Onasi
03-19-2008, 08:43 AM
Now, are there a lot of girls playing GW, or are a lot of people playing as girls?

Girls playing. I don't count the female avatars--I don't subscribe to the idea that on the internetz if the person has a female avatar, the person must be female.

When I listen to the local channel they typically will reveal gender at some point. Granted, some could be lying, but most of the kiddies reveal way too much about themselves anyway, so it's not hard to find out. And as stoffe mentioned above, we have a significant number of active females in our guild, too.

Tommycat
03-19-2008, 08:51 AM
And here I though everyone was honest on teh intarwebz....

Web Rider
03-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Girls playing. I don't count the female avatars--I don't subscribe to the idea that on the internetz if the person has a female avatar, the person must be female.
apparently the idiots who try and hit on me do. What's up with that? To girls who play as guy PCs: do you ever get hit on by girls?

When I listen to the local channel they typically will reveal gender at some point. Granted, some could be lying, but most of the kiddies reveal way too much about themselves anyway, so it's not hard to find out. And as stoffe mentioned above, we have a significant number of active females in our guild, too.
I'm not going to question you're familiarity with your own guild members or all them "l33t kiddies" who can't shut it(which is typically why I avoid MMOs).

Inyri
03-19-2008, 11:57 AM
apparently the idiots who try and hit on me do. What's up with that? To girls who play as guy PCs: do you ever get hit on by girls?I played a male character in SWG for a brief while (unfortunately not long enough to get hit on) but I made the character specifically to see how female players would treat me. Eventually I got bored and dragged another of my female friends into that server with a guy toon and we totally played a gay couple. :lol:

Harmless to everyone else, naturally, except the homophobes who perceived it as a threat to their sexuality. :p

PoiuyWired
03-19-2008, 02:24 PM
apparently the idiots who try and hit on me do. What's up with that? To girls who play as guy PCs: do you ever get hit on by girls?


Define "hit on"? And I think by that you don't mean a speedy delivery of a giant club on the head. Well, that WAS a way to pick up chicks I guess, back in the caveman dayz.

Well, I think the general public's idea is that:
Female avatar = Both guys and girls RL.
Male avatar = Guys RL only (which is obviously wrong)

To be fair, you do get treated more nicely when you play a female avatar (esp when its hot and/or pretty), even if everyone knows that you are a guy.

But really, I know quite some girls that would play as males. rp or not rp.

I personally would choose a character/avatar of my liking with the right feel should I choose to rp. And if I wanna go grind and hack and slash I would just use the weirdest looking one, or one with an advantage in its physical looks (harder to see etc). If you are not doing rp mind as well min/max it to teh max.

Web Rider
03-19-2008, 04:04 PM
I personally would choose a character/avatar of my liking with the right feel should I choose to rp. And if I wanna go grind and hack and slash I would just use the weirdest looking one, or one with an advantage in its physical looks (harder to see etc). If you are not doing rp mind as well min/max it to teh max.

races and sexes seem to be getting boiled down as of late, it seems like game developers are trying not to look racist or sexist, which no matter what anyone argues, there are at lest differences in fantasy races, they were designed that way, duh.

I played a male character in SWG for a brief while (unfortunately not long enough to get hit on) but I made the character specifically to see how female players would treat me. Eventually I got bored and dragged another of my female friends into that server with a guy toon and we totally played a gay couple. :lol:

Harmless to everyone else, naturally, except the homophobes who perceived it as a threat to their sexuality. :p
hmmm, I have a male friend who also plays a female character, I do notice that when he's around nobody bothers me. I suspect it's something of the same reason. *shudder* Players REALLY need to get a grip....

Darth333
03-19-2008, 09:04 PM
apparently the idiots who try and hit on me do. What's up with that? To girls who play as guy PCs: do you ever get hit on by girls?
Hey! I got some public marriage demands: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/marry_torra.jpg :p (that's how LF used to look 3 yrs ago)

And, although I am not sure, I think I was using that very gender neutral avatar (http://64.20.36.214/lucasforums.com/images/avatars/Empire.gif ) at that time :o

MasterWaffle
03-19-2008, 09:20 PM
Oh, I've had one of those. Amusing, aren't they?

Q
03-19-2008, 10:16 PM
Hey! I got some public marriage demands: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/marry_torra.jpg :p (that's how LF used to look 3 yrs ago)

And, although I am not sure, I think I was using that very gender neutral avatar (http://64.20.36.214/lucasforums.com/images/avatars/Empire.gif ) at that time :o
That's what you get for being sooo sexeh.

Your appeal is so strong that it bled through that androgynous avvy. :D

Inyri
03-19-2008, 11:02 PM
Hey! I got some public marriage demands: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/marry_torra.jpg :p (that's how LF used to look 3 yrs ago)Be happy; all I get is public threats to yank my spine out and strangle me with it (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/inyri/strangle_sm.jpg). :p

mimartin
03-19-2008, 11:35 PM
yank my spine out and strangle me with it. :p:lol: I'm no doctor, but would it be even possible to strangle someone with a human spine?

Inyri
03-19-2008, 11:58 PM
I think it would be a bit of a challenge.

Bee Hoon
03-20-2008, 12:11 AM
Creative threat though. For what it's worth, I think he put effort into it :p

RedHawke
03-20-2008, 01:32 AM
Hey! I got some public marriage demands: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/marry_torra.jpg :p (that's how LF used to look 3 yrs ago)
Ahhhhh! Memories!

Web Rider
03-20-2008, 02:54 AM
:lol: I'm no doctor, but would it be even possible to strangle someone with a human spine?

You'd probably have to use a contortionist's spine. Like one of those Cirque De Solei(sp) performers. Of course, with how jagged the spine is, it might just tear up your next before actually choking them.

Bee Hoon
03-20-2008, 03:43 AM
No, presuming that you're trying to use the person's own spine as in the threat.

Quanon
03-20-2008, 12:56 PM
Hey! I got some public marriage demands: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v144/Darth333/marry_torra.jpg :p (that's how LF used to look 3 yrs ago)


So who was the lucky one ?

Or is the post still open to be taken? ;)

On the spine: I believe the lower part is quite flexibel in one direction.
Perhaps a Snakes spine would do the job better. :xp:

Inyri
03-20-2008, 01:01 PM
Thank you for the advice on how to best strangle me with various bits of anatomy. -_-

So shall we get back to female gamers then? :p

Quanon
03-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Thank you for the advice on how to best strangle me with various bits of anatomy. -_-

So shall we get back to female gamers then? :p

Yeah, killing you would be a bad idea, I need you...

to correct/ give tips on my 3D models once in awhile, as I'm such a shmuck O_Q

Anywany, on topic: Me and my Sister often play GW together, actually almost my whole family seems to play GW, got our own little Guild :p

But I guess most girls/women that like games often like Fantasy and SF movies/comics, you name it.
Though I get the impression they get odd views by other fem friends because of that.
Its weird that this stil kinds of seen as only boys stuff...

Inyri
03-20-2008, 01:40 PM
It's not quite the 1950's anymore, but mental perceptions don't change in 50 years; take a poll of men and see how many of them still think women are best at cooking and cleaning. It's just taboo to say it out loud... which I guess is better than no progress at all. :p

Gaming is still considered 'a guy thing' because girls are still seen as bubbly shopaholics who are too busy getting their nails done. It's all about stereotypes and perception. Doesn't mean that a good amount of girls don't enjoy occasionally knocking your block off with a crowbar. :xp:

Corinthian
03-20-2008, 01:46 PM
When was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't a professional chef do a decent job cooking, Inyri? And, for that matter, when was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't totally insane do a good job cleaning?

Inyri
03-20-2008, 01:59 PM
When was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't a professional chef do a decent job cooking, Inyri?I don't think I've ever met a man (who cooked) who was bad at it. Typically people who are bad at cooking don't cook, regardless of whether they are men or women. And just in case it wasn't clear, I don't know any chefs.And, for that matter, when was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't totally insane do a good job cleaning?I think you're doing your gender a disservice, unless you're actually being sarcastic about this (in which case your eSarcasm needs work). Stereotypes are bad for the goose and the gander.

Web Rider
03-20-2008, 02:36 PM
When was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't a professional chef do a decent job cooking, Inyri? And, for that matter, when was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't totally insane do a good job cleaning?

I don't know if you're just incompetent in those things and trying to make it look like everyone is like you or you're being funny, but I do a darn good job cooking, an OK job cleaning, but cooking, yes, I love cooking. And I haven't killed anyone and people love my food so I must be good at it.

My mom and dad takes turns at cooking, they each cook different things best, but my dad is usually the cook, and therefore...God.

Meowster
03-20-2008, 02:45 PM
Corinth- My Dad happens to be a very good cook, compared to my mom. <<

I knew that alot of the media views gaming as a 'boys thing', but at my school every girl I know at least has one console...actually, I think at my school gaming is more of a girls thing than boys. Lots of the boys have moved on to sports...of course, I could never find such love in sports. I just love my Kingdom Hearts to much. /love Kingdom Hearts

mur'phon
03-20-2008, 03:44 PM
Where I live, soap watching and binge drinking are the normal hobies for both genders and gaming/"exersising" being "boy" things, and exersising/older boyfriend being "girl" things. Of course there are exeptions, but in my class I only know one girl who has played something else than sing star.

@Corinthian: I can make food fit for any ocasion, and clean well enough to earn some money doing it when needed. Of course I'm probably insane to know such skils, particularly when I'm about to get my own property :xp:
And yes I'm a man (technically not before monday, but I don't want to repost then).

Quanon
03-20-2008, 03:59 PM
It's not quite the 1950's anymore, but mental perceptions don't change in 50 years; take a poll of men and see how many of them still think women are best at cooking and cleaning. It's just taboo to say it out loud... which I guess is better than no progress at all. :p


Well there's certainly progress, my mom and dad I would consider somewhere half way out. My grandparents I would consider real 50's folk.

My dad has seen the gamesworld booming, it some attracts him, but he can never "get into it" its something for the kids.

Well at least my little cousin,( my Sisters son) will be raised with games, as daddy plays a lot'em and mom to.
It won't be maniac, my Sister won't let that happen.

Anyway these kind of boards prove there's a differant world already.

PoiuyWired
03-20-2008, 05:51 PM
To be fair, females are a bit more atuned to communications, whiwh many offline gaming xp do not provide. Then again, I won't call it communication either when it comes to those annoying chipmunk kiddos yelling at teamspeak.

I think it would be a bit of a challenge.
Yes, though unfortunately, a human that is despined is probably long dead before you get to the strangulation part. So I suggest you to get your spine donor elsewhere if you want to strangle someone.

Inyri
03-20-2008, 06:04 PM
To be fair, females are a bit more atuned to communications, whiwh many offline gaming xp do not provide. Then again, I won't call it communication either when it comes to those annoying chipmunk kiddos yelling at teamspeak.I'd argue that's why women play RPG's; there's a more social feeling to them despite it all being 'preordained,' if you will; RPG's are meant to mimic reality, at least to a certain extent.

And I DARESAY that's why women don't play the popular MMO's in the numbers that men do; whatever folks are doing in there I don't think it what we'd consider 'socializing' for the most part. Probably like acting like morons. :xp:

<3 pre-programmed NPCs :p

Corinthian
03-20-2008, 06:11 PM
See? This proves my point. They're exceptions! And, as everyone says, exceptions prove the rule.

True_Avery
03-20-2008, 06:15 PM
See? This proves my point. They're exceptions! And, as everyone says, exceptions prove the rule.
Wait... what?

Inyri
03-20-2008, 06:20 PM
See? This proves my point. They're exceptions! And, as everyone says, exceptions prove the rule.You do realize the only reason people say that is because they've lost an argument and aren't willing to concede...?

Besides, there's no rule here. Only an inaccurate stereotype.

Ctrl Alt Del
03-20-2008, 07:52 PM
And I DARESAY that's why women don't play the popular MMO's in the numbers that men do; whatever folks are doing in there I don't think it what we'd consider 'socializing' for the most part. Probably like acting like morons. :xp:


You say it. But it's you. What if I said to you that I have a little census at hand that states women are 65% of the MMOs players on Brazil? Of course you can consider them an exception since, for example, 20% of the european MMO players are female, but...

Who can guess what a woman is thinking? :xp:

Rogue Nine
03-20-2008, 08:06 PM
That's because all the men in Brazil are too busy watching/playing soccer. :p

Ctrl Alt Del
03-20-2008, 08:45 PM
That's because all the men in Brazil are too busy watching/playing soccer. :p
Damn, you got it fast. :D

Jae Onasi
03-20-2008, 10:11 PM
There's a good social aspect to MMOs. I turn off the local channel for the most part in towns so I don't have to 'socialize' with horny 13 year old boys, but I socialize with the guild I play with. Niner, stoffe, and I run around in Guild Wars with some regularity, and we game with both our guild and the larger alliance. Last night we ran through a tough part of the game with 8 of us guild members (the max party size) while chatting on Vent, and we all had a great time.

My dad cooks. Both my grandfathers could cook. Hubby cooks and does the laundry. My son learned to cook a few weeks ago when I was too sick with the flu to do much of anything, and he did a marvelous job. He's learning how to clean, too, just like my daughter. And just to break the stereotype, I know the difference between a Phillips and slotted screwdriver, can run a table saw, helped with re-roofing our garage last year, and installed the kitchen faucet. Both my kids will learn how to use tools just like both will learn how to cook and clean, and the entire family will enjoy a variety of styles of video games. Welcome to the 21st century.

Bee Hoon
03-21-2008, 01:51 AM
When was the last time you ever saw a man who wasn't a professional chef do a decent job cooking, Inyri? I have met more guys than girls who are actually interested in cooking, and can blab on about new, covenient and exciting ways to cook fish.

See? This proves my point. They're exceptions! And, as everyone says, exceptions prove the rule. I've never heard that in my life:/ Pretty funky logic you have there:P

<3 pre-programmed NPCs Aye aye! Those with smexy voice-overs :p

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 02:20 AM
I've never heard that in my life:/ Pretty funky logic you have there:P



Never? Merely means that if you can find few counterexamples to refute an argument, it pretty much holds true (not absolutely, since there are the odd obvious exceptions, but generally).

I've known a few girls who can't cook/won't learn. Pathetic really, given that most cooking usually only involves following directions.....and there are more cooking books out there than you could read in a lifetime. Guess they make enough money to eat out or just plan on finding themselves a good "chef". Besides, limiting yourself to simple things like peanutbutter&jelly sandwiches, hotdogs and hamburgers, etc.......just seems so........well, limiting.

Inyri
03-21-2008, 02:23 AM
I've known a few girls who can't cook/won't learn. Pathetic really, given that most cooking usually only involves following directions.....So then you think men who won't ask for directions are pathetic as well? ;)

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 02:32 AM
Why I have no idea what you're talking about (he said innocently).:angel:

Corinthian
03-21-2008, 02:51 AM
And people call me misogynistic for suggesting that women are better at cooking than men...

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-21-2008, 02:56 AM
And people call me misogynistic for suggesting that women are better at cooking than men...iknorite women are in the kitchen so much its like how can they NOT be good at cooking

Inyri
03-21-2008, 02:57 AM
And people call me misogynistic for suggesting that women are better at cooking than men...http://www.deitschel.com/graphic-design/portfolio/assets/logo-identity-design/captain-oblivious-block.jpg

Anyway, Totenkopf, patheticness is subjective. :p

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 04:50 AM
http://www.deitschel.com/graphic-design/portfolio/assets/logo-identity-design/captain-oblivious-block.jpg

Anyway, Totenkopf, patheticness is subjective. :p

Pretty much true (like most things when it comes to opinions). The pathetic comment, though was more generally aimed, as most cooking is merely a matter of following directions. Anyone (female/male) that whines "..but i can't cook" is likely illiterate. ;)

stoffe
03-21-2008, 05:36 AM
Mod note:
So... female gamers. Yes, I believe that was the topic of this tread. If you want to continue to discuss gender roles and stereotypes in general please create a separate thread for that. :)

Jae Onasi
03-21-2008, 12:51 PM
So, what should devs/gaming companies do to appeal to more females? More social interaction in MMOs? More role-playing games? Is there something in 'male games' that could be changed to make it more female friendly, if it should be changed in the first place? Should we work towards games that appeal to both genders or should there be 'male-friendly games' and 'female-friendly games'?

Ctrl Alt Del
03-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Should we work towards games that appeal to both genders or should there be 'male-friendly games' and 'female-friendly games'?
Ugh. That's pretty hard to answer.

But I guess that making a game that appeals both genres would be difficulty, not to mention another load of worries on the devs backs. But the other option is equally bad, doing gender oriented games and still be careful to not make it so clear that game X is for the men and Y is for the women.

More role-playing games?
I don't think women prefer especially RPGs over the other genres.

Inyri
03-21-2008, 01:27 PM
But I guess that making a game that appeals both genres would be difficulty, not to mention another load of worries on the devs backs. But the other option is equally bad, doing gender oriented games and still be careful to not make it so clear that game X is for the men and Y is for the women.Well it's not as if you have to make 100% of game X for men and 100% of game Y for women. Everyone is drawn to a game for specific reasons; add some things men like and some things women like, and potentially soften the edges. That way women will be drawn to it for their reason, and men will be drawn to it for their reason, and if you soften both up a little easy aspect will not deter the other gender from playing. I've played many-a-game like that. C&C Renegade was one of my favorites; I loved the team aspect of the game (you couldn't really play successfully without working with your team), and I'm sure the guys loved being able to hop into the mobile artillery and blowing the crap out of the other team's base. ;)


I don't think women prefer especially RPG's over the other genres.It's not that women prefer RPG's over, say, first person shooters. It's not the game type at all. It's usually how the games are set up that affect whether or not women are drawn to them. Let's face it, most FPS's are fairly shallow. RPG's by their nature really (for the most part) have to have considerably more depth than an FPS, so that's probably why women tend to prefer RPG-type games.

However I myself really liked the Call of Duty series because I fell in love with the SP campaign. I'm very fond of WW2 history and I thought the stories were told wonderfully. Plus it wasn't just a 'point and shoot'; you had to be smart. :D

mimartin
03-21-2008, 02:05 PM
So, what should devs/gaming companies do to appeal to more females?
I don’t know, but if past history is any indication. Take a popular game, put a bow on the PC's head, change the color scheme to pink and give it a more feminine name.

http://www.ilovethe80s.com/mspacman.gif

Seriously I do not believe there is any one thing that game Dev can do to appeal more to females. Gamers are a diversified group, male or female, and there is no set formula that will appeal to all the segments. Concentrating on hiring more female game writers and developers may help in the process.

Personally I like the idea of developers working on games with better stories regardless if the game is design to appeal to either gender. A good story in a game can crossover to either gender, just like a good movie or a good song does.

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 05:12 PM
It's really a matter of trial and error. If you try to be all things to all people, you usually end up a big mess. While a generalization, I think the following is pretty true: Make the story interesting enough to want to follow and just violent enough for play and you can probably appeal to both sides. Too much of one or the other tends to render a game a little 2 dimensional and cuts into it's ability for mass appeal. Btw, there's nothing inherently wrong with niche marketing games to one gender or the other, though those games might not be as lucrative in the end. Still, especially in light of increasing budgets, it's basically a crap shoot (just like movies).

Ctrl Alt Del
03-21-2008, 07:12 PM
Everyone is drawn to a game for specific reasons; add some things men like and some things women like, and potentially soften the edges. That way women will be drawn to it for their reason, and men will be drawn to it for their reason, and if you soften both up a little easy aspect will not deter the other gender from playing.
That's the first option. Frankly, 'till today, few games have managed to do that.

I don’t know, but if past history is any indication. Take a popular game, put a bow on the PC's head, change the color scheme to pink and give it a more feminine name.
It don't even needed that. The original Pac-man was already a women-oriented game, or so it's dev says:

"All you gotta do is eat, and women love eating"...

Inyri
03-21-2008, 07:17 PM
:lol: Cuz men don't, right? But anyway, stoffe yelled at us the last time we started talking about this. :p

In terms of games failing to hit both ends of the spectrum, I don't necessarily think it's true that a lot of games have failed; a lot of games simply haven't tried.

Ctrl Alt Del
03-21-2008, 07:22 PM
Yes, I agree. But I think that, with games becoming more of a popular media, it'll probably become what movies are today, trying to hit a lot of target audiences at once.

Web Rider
03-21-2008, 08:37 PM
:lol: Cuz men don't, right? But anyway, stoffe yelled at us the last time we started talking about this. :p

In terms of games failing to hit both ends of the spectrum, I don't necessarily think it's true that a lot of games have failed; a lot of games simply haven't tried.

But is that even wanted? Would you really want to play a game that tries to cate to every crowd? What would that be? Some kind of SRPG-action-adventure-shooter-romance-comedy-RTS-turn based-MMO? I mean really, what's the game even trying to accomplish?

And what happens when we get into different races? If genders are hard enough to figure out, different backgrounds and physical appearance differences make things worse.

Honestly, I think the video game market is doing good the way it is, I suppose it really all depends on which kinds of feminist viewpoint you take on the issue.(I'm referring to real feminist theories, not evil fem-nazis, though they are a legit viewpoint).

Inyri
03-21-2008, 09:44 PM
I think you're misinterpreting "hitting each end of the spectrum" as "hitting every possible end of the spectrum." We don't need every single thing a man/woman might like. I suspect every game you play isn't the perfect ideal-in-every-way game for you, is it?

And I don't necessarily think anyone's really said the game industry wasn't doing fine as it was, now. In fact I've not heard too many of the ladies seriously complain about the choices. Granted I'd say most game developers have been kind of lazy lately (focusing almost entirely on multiplay, especially) but there are plenty of games out there that are not like that and appeal to a vast variety of people, men and women both.

Web Rider
03-21-2008, 10:09 PM
I think you're misinterpreting "hitting each end of the spectrum" as "hitting every possible end of the spectrum."

On a two dimensional spectrum, ie: a closed ended line, if you're hitting girls gamers and guy gamers, those could easily be the same type of players, or vastly opposite players.

Should shooters include fashion-designing elements in order to cater to "girly-girls" and "power-gamers"? Since we've already outlines that the "male-female" spectrum isn't simply "male to female", as there are different kinds of gamers on each side, one cannot hit "both sides" without hitting a hundred other sides.

As somebody put forth earlier, one cannot hit the "female" side of the spectrum, since there really isn't a "female" side of the spectrum, there are players who like different styles of gameplay that men and women fall into. Games targeted at that kind of player are far superior than a game thats attempting to cater to some mythological "male" or "female".

Inyri
03-21-2008, 10:14 PM
If there's no 'female' side, there's no 'male' side. I'm not going to be naive and say the 'female' side of gaming is for women. 'Feminine' would probably be a better term; it refers to more feminine gameplay aspects. By feminine I don't mean 'fashion design' -- you're being far too stereotypical of women. If a girl wants to do fashion design in a video game they'll go buy the Sims or something, so I think that's kind of a moot point. There are already games catering to those tastes. :p

But then again, most MMO's (and most FPS's, for that option) cater to 'fashion sense' in the sense that they provide dozens of appearances to choose from. So it looks like your point has already been adapted into most games. ;)

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 10:23 PM
I'd wager that most of the devs, like producers, tend to go wherever the money appears to be. That kind of laziness either reduces the range of games/films to "ok, but the same" or a cheap knockoffs of a better product. Ashame, but the business of buisness is business.

Btw, does anyone know what the current estimate of female gamers is as a % of the market?

Bee Hoon
03-21-2008, 10:58 PM
I may not be obsessed with how my character looks (okay, I lie :p) but I do at least demand a character that looks halfway decent! :p Plus customizing is half the fun, hehe. The other half is severely kicking butt:P

SilentScope001
03-21-2008, 11:10 PM
But is that even wanted? Would you really want to play a game that tries to cate to every crowd? What would that be? Some kind of SRPG-action-adventure-shooter-romance-comedy-RTS-turn based-MMO??

Yes. Do it.

The Fall of Mercutio. You play as Mercutio, a member of the ruling house of Verona during Romeo and Juilet. Your role is to discover on the urging of the Prince of Verona the reasons for the conflict between the Capulets and Montagues. As you get involved in the brewing conflict, you can sell your services as a merc for either side, commanding huge armies in RTS-style battles or take part in SRPG combat and make important dialouge choices. Can you find the truth behind the fighting and negogiate a deal between the Capulets and the Montagues? Or will you die in the crossifre?

Inyri
03-21-2008, 11:12 PM
No no no, please... Romeo and Juliet was not one of Shakespeare's better works. -_-

Totenkopf
03-21-2008, 11:31 PM
No no no, please... Romeo and Juliet was not one of Shakespeare's better works. -_-


Just one of his better known ones.

Serpentine Cougar
03-22-2008, 01:08 AM
Btw, does anyone know what the current estimate of female gamers is as a % of the market?
Searching Google gave me this (http://www.dbtechno.com/gaming/2008/03/03/esa-report-shows-38-of-gamers-are-female/):
A new report released by the Entertainment Software Association has found that 38% of gamers are female. The ESA report stated that the majority of female gamers play the Nintendo DS, as well as games such as The Sims. Female gamers make up the majority of the market for casual games, featured on the DS, as well as the Nintendo Wii. [...] They also enjoy social games such as MMOs.

Off-topic: I hated Romeo and Juliet....

Web Rider
03-23-2008, 02:42 AM
A new report released by the Entertainment Software Association has found that 38% of gamers are female.

that doesnt surprise me, though I would have figured it more around 30, and actually none of those stats surprise me for some reason. I just don't think the gaming culture has fully absorbed into the female population yet.

Rogue Nine
03-23-2008, 02:48 AM
I'm interested on what their criteria for being a 'gamer' is, since they don't seem to make a distinction between casual and serious ones.

Bee Hoon
03-23-2008, 03:03 AM
I wonder whether they count games like Sims :P I'm the only female gamer I know who plays Star Wars/NWN/Fifa :P There are girls I know who play Final Fantasy, thank God.

Jae Onasi
03-23-2008, 03:23 AM
Heh, you know a bunch of gals here who play SW/NWN/etc.

I agree there seems to be 2 tiers in gaming for females--the casual solitaire type player, and the hard-core 'pre-buy the latest game so you can have a copy the day it comes out and play it non-stop for 800 hours' type player. I would guess that most of the gals here fall closer to the hard-core player end of the spectrum. The casual gamer is going to approach games a bit differently than the hard-core players, though the ultimate goal is entertainment. I think the wants and needs of the two sub-groups of women are different enough, however, that devs need to take a look at that.

Bee Hoon
03-23-2008, 03:34 AM
Heh, you know a bunch of gals here who play SW/NWN/etc. It is a relief!

Web Rider
03-23-2008, 04:05 AM
I wonder whether they count games like Sims :P I'm the only female gamer I know who plays Star Wars/NWN/Fifa :P There are girls I know who play Final Fantasy, thank God.

the majority of female gamers play the Nintendo DS, as well as games such as The Sims.

that would be "yes".

honestly I don't think female gamers are really that diversed from male gamers. Their girls...who fit into existing categories of gamers, hardcore, casual, MMOers, RPGers, ect....

and: WTF? attention all male gamers: stop hitting on female pixels! srsly...

Alexander the Great
03-23-2008, 12:48 PM
Girls should play BioShock. It makes playing video games feel unbiased and non-sexist. There's equal treatment for BOTH genders! If hitting women over the heads with a wrench after setting them on fire isn't fun for the whole family, then I don't know what is.

Searching Google gave me this (http://www.dbtechno.com/gaming/2008/03/03/esa-report-shows-38-of-gamers-are-female/):

Well, it's nice to know that the stores clerk records my gender every time I buy a video game.

PoiuyWired
03-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Girls buying games does not mean they play it. A mom ( :tsk: ) can buy some nice games for her kids, and vice versa. Plus, it is quite common that a game is passed on from a friend to another. I mean, I am pretty sure that many guys got their games borrowed/jacked by their girlfriend/sister/etc. Hack, some unfortunate souls would have their DS (and some fingers) forceably ripped from their hands by a particularly vile sister, along with the copy of his Princess Peach/cute rpg/etc

In short, buyers does not reflect players accurately. Obviously people constantly staying in the same establishment would quite often share a same console, and same goes with the games. Obvious places would be any home where the siblings/parents would share the same game (amongst things like wow accounts and such) But same thing can be said about dorm rooms, houses where most friends hangs out, or the console thrown under the tv in the resting room at a workspace/etc (think about places where you would place the good old ddr matress). These are places where a somewhat constant group of individuals can hand out and play the console/games for ane xtended period of time.


The ONE COPY of the old Smash Bros Melee I had is shared by a tight group of 10 or so friends who are constantly playing on it, as in they are usually hanging around in that living room spending at least 10-15 hours of gametime per week for quite a few months. Yes that includes at least 1 female non-casual player, and a couple of the more casual ones that would drop in occasionally. So how is the buying of this one copy of the game reflect the demographics of players behind it?

And there are quite a few games that would allow for multiple players on the same console, fighting games for example. Such games would typically be shared and played amongst a few people, playing on the same console.

Even an obvious single player game may be played by several players on a regular basis. Its like after you finish some normal grade rpg you would lend it to your friend.

And yes, we are not even getting into people freeloading games and warez.

Ctrl Alt Del
03-23-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm interested on what their criteria for being a 'gamer' is, since they don't seem to make a distinction between casual and serious ones.
Girls buying games does not mean they play it.

Quoted for answer.

Plus, the "casual" at hand has another name: Wii.

Jae Onasi
03-24-2008, 12:51 AM
Yes, but when you're running a business, you count what was _sold_ and who bought it, not who actually played it 3 people down the line. ;)

Tommycat
03-24-2008, 01:37 AM
Not necessarily true Jae, You look at the demographic of those who refused to pay for it as negative income. You don't want to keep making games for those that won't pay for it.

aside: I think for the most part this is why there is a trend away from PC games that only include the initial purchase price as the total cost. I also think that is the reason for the trend to MMO marketing for PC games.

On Topic: Women and gaming are as varied as men in their play style preferences. (generalization warning)They do however present a challenge in that they also tend to expect more of a story than men. Catering to this would not harm gaming for other gamers, but it would require more thought put into the games. Though I guess it's possible it would negatively impact the hackandslashinstantactionbigboomies gamers.

PoiuyWired
03-24-2008, 04:12 PM
there is always FPS for them, they would just skip the dialogues and go straight for the kill everything in sight primary missions.

Plus, we already establish that we will NOT care for the highheels lady gamers, as they already have myspace as the playground. We don't really need a myspace simulation game.

Web Rider
03-24-2008, 04:13 PM
Though I guess it's possible it would negatively impact the hackandslashinstantactionbigboomies gamers.

FPS and hack and slash games don't really need a story anyway, so I doubt it would make a difference anywho.

Inyri
03-24-2008, 04:21 PM
FPS and hack and slash games don't really need a story anyway, so I doubt it would make a difference anywho.You're not serious, are you? Some of the best (and most enjoyable) SP campaigns I've ever played were FPS or hack'n'slash. If little boys just want to shoot things, that's why games have multiplayer and/or bot matches. :)

Web Rider
03-24-2008, 07:47 PM
You're not serious, are you? Some of the best (and most enjoyable) SP campaigns I've ever played were FPS or hack'n'slash. If little boys just want to shoot things, that's why games have multiplayer and/or bot matches. :)

"ok Hank, there's some baddies on the next level, avoid the snipers, kill them all."
shoot...shoot...shoot...grenade...win!

"okay hank, there's a big ugly alien on the next level protected by snipers. kill them all and grab the box of alien goo."

shoot shoot shoot....rocket launcher....win!

yeah...FPS really need a story....no, they just point you in the right direction and tell you who to kill.

Quanon
03-24-2008, 08:24 PM
Didn't Diablo II had some nice long dialogues/ monologues in between the endless slauthering of critters, daemons and other various evil incarnations.

Somehow I just enjoyed it for hours and I could again...

Ctrl Alt Del
03-24-2008, 08:37 PM
yeah...FPS really need a story....no, they just point you in the right direction and tell you who to kill.
Allow me to disagree. Heard of little something called Bioshock?

Besides, that's why we have plot on all games, isn't it? An excuse, or motivator, for the slaughter or fun to take place and still make sense (or not).

Jae Onasi
03-24-2008, 08:48 PM
The FPS plotline (or lack thereof) should be in its own thread--topic is still 'female gamers'. ;)

Tommycat
03-24-2008, 09:35 PM
there is always FPS for them, they would just skip the dialogues and go straight for the kill everything in sight primary missions.

Plus, we already establish that we will NOT care for the highheels lady gamers, as they already have myspace as the playground. We don't really need a myspace simulation game.
The point is that spending a little extra time developing a story through the game might be seen as a negative for the ones that just want the instant action. Ya know more like, "Oh <insert diety>, more plot. I just want to get back to fighting." Honestly though if it attracts more females to games, I can't see spending a little extra time in development to come up with a good story.

Another thing that might help is not being so mammary focussed in the character design. And for that matter not being so freaking focussed on gaining biblical knowledge of every female in the game.

Jae Onasi
03-24-2008, 11:17 PM
I could live with the option of altering cup-size and coverage. That way, if I wanted a B-cup girl covered up to some level of decency, I could have that, and the boys could still have their half-naked EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-cup.

Q
03-24-2008, 11:21 PM
You could alter cup-size via the console in VTMB, but they looked ridiculous (yes, being male I had to check it out :D) and the bewbz were big enough in that game anyway. ;)

Bee Hoon
03-25-2008, 08:26 AM
I could live with the option of altering cup-size and coverage. That way, if I wanted a B-cup girl covered up to some level of decency, I could have that, and the boys could still have their half-naked EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-cup.
QFT!

Totenkopf
03-25-2008, 08:40 AM
Another thing that might help is not being so mammary focussed in the character design. And for that matter not being so freaking focussed on gaining biblical knowledge of every female in the game.

Yeah, frankly, I could do w/o a lot of the "romances" you get in games.

Inyri
03-25-2008, 10:20 AM
The problem with romances in games is usually there's not enough character development (on either end) to make it believable. I can be convinced that people can fall in love very quickly... but I mean come on. Some of these even push that envelope.

JCarter426
03-25-2008, 04:00 PM
The problem with romances in games is usually there's not enough character development (on either end) to make it believable. I can be convinced that people can fall in love very quickly... but I mean come on. Some of these even push that envelope.

Revan and Bastila immediately come to mind.

I know a lot of people complained about the lack of romance in K2, but I say good riddance. Mr Avellone has admitted in the past that he can't write romances, and so he has given up even trying (unlike some people we know :p).

Jae Onasi
03-25-2008, 04:20 PM
He could have delegated the romance part to one of the other writers on the team. I expect that in a game (especially as they get shorter), the romances are going to be rather superficial. I'm from Wisconsin after all, and I do know my cheese. However, I still like having the 'hero and heroine save the world and fall in love' option at least.

Inyri
03-25-2008, 04:34 PM
I'm from Wisconsin after all, and I do know my cheese.:rofl: Jae, you make my day. Consistently.

I think the 'superficial love story' is what attracts some people. Finding that 'special someone' in real life is hard enough. Games are meant to be ideal, no? Fall in love in 5 mins: perfection!

I may have said it was unrealistic, but I don't think I ever said I didn't like it -- or expect it in a game, for that matter. :p

Of course my hidden point was "make KotOR longer! >.>" *dons halo*

Totenkopf
03-25-2008, 10:32 PM
I'm from Wisconsin after all, and I do know my cheese.

No limburger, please. :xp: I appreciate options as much as anyone in gameplay, but agree with JCarter that the absence of it in TSL didn't bother me. If it DOES have to be there, make it fun (not mushy/sappy).

Something to make the blood of a female gamer possibly boil (or snort in derision, anyway).
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article3613881.ece

Inyri
03-25-2008, 10:34 PM
It bothered me because it wasn't absent -- it was there, but you couldn't do anything with it. Since they cut out half the game, you got a broken half of a romance arc. That's obnoxious -- you either have to add it or not add it. You can't go halfway >.>

Jae Onasi
03-25-2008, 10:35 PM
*Jae adds website to list of sites blocked on home computers so kids will never see that kind of crap*

Bee Hoon
03-25-2008, 11:12 PM
That sounds like a horrible game!:/

Tommycat
03-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Looks like I have to add a new site to my router's block list.

Totenkopf
03-26-2008, 01:41 AM
It bothered me because it wasn't absent -- it was there, but you couldn't do anything with it. Since they cut out half the game, you got a broken half of a romance arc. That's obnoxious -- you either have to add it or not add it. You can't go halfway >.>

Yeah, I was thinking in terms of a resolved (however halfassed) romance angle. In TSL it's like a big tease act b/c of its being rushed to market. Chalk it up as one more incomplete aspect of an otherwise decent game.

Q
03-26-2008, 03:16 AM
@Death's Head: That game is an abomination, and this is coming from a man. I loathe bimbo-ism with every fiber of my being.

Not that I don't like hot chicks; I just don't think that bimbos are hot. ;)

selty
05-03-2008, 01:51 AM
Heh, well to add my two cents to this topic, I know that there are masses of Atton Rand fangirls out there, who plead and beg on more than a few TSL forums for an Atton romance enhancement.

I mean, have you seen how many Exile/Atton fanarts are out there?
I can't say I minded having a rather cute scoundrel hitting on you...mainly in the beginning of the game, though from a plot perspective, it did need something more. Didn't you get annoyed at the fact you could only ask him for a game of Pazaak half the time?

I liked the KOTOR system, i.e after gaining a bit more experience, you progress your plot with each character.
It worked well and it felt more...real. TSL was indeed rushed and even if I loved the story to death, I was highly disappointed.

The games I truly respect and find playable are the ones with a good, intruiging plot, in-depth characters, challenging yet rewarding gameplay and versatile enemies. KOTOR had this, TSL did not as much.

Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. :3
The main point was...though I didn't get to it, that a good romance plot can be key to a good story. After all, every story has some kind of love in it, you can't deny that.

dhollmusik
08-16-2008, 04:30 AM
What Bastila and male Revan had, in my opinion, was passion and hormones. Not love. They had the bond, but not the connection. The male Revan dialog to Bastila is over the top bad, and sounds like a 16 year old boy talking to his high school girlfriend. It felt pushed. It felt needy.

Yep...that's exactly what it was. I imagine Juhani to better understand, and feel, love but by all accounts she never found her partner.

Corinthian
08-16-2008, 04:56 AM
Avery, what you have here is a man who is intellectually stunted owing to the fact that the Council mindscrewed him and a woman who's suppressed her emotions her entire life (The man did that too, but that was years before). This isn't something to be surprised about.

Jae Onasi
09-04-2008, 11:28 AM
I was just reviewing this thread for a female gamer thread over in gwguru, and thought I'd ask this question.

What could a Kotor MMO do to enhance playability and enjoyability for both genders? Are these things going to be different for the genders, and if so, how? Are there going to be similarities? If so, what would those be?

tk102
09-04-2008, 12:46 PM
Strip Pazaak.

Inyri
09-04-2008, 01:42 PM
I don't think there's anything that could tempt me to play a KotOR MMO. I had my fill of 10 year olds running around screaming and yelling and ganking my kills when I played SWG. ;)

Although strip pazaak would be a start. >.>

Astor
09-04-2008, 01:47 PM
Strip Pazaak.

Nah, anything with 'strip' in it loses it's appeal if it's not real. :lol:

Although strip pazaak would be a start. >.>

:lol:

Inyri
09-04-2008, 01:51 PM
That strongly depends on how realistic the model is. For instance if Grey Edwards from the Final Fantasy movie (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/inyri/gray_edwards.jpg) (as bad as it was) played strip poker in the film, it would've had more female viewers I guarantee. :drool1:

Astor
09-04-2008, 02:10 PM
That strongly depends on how realistic the model is. For instance if Grey Edwards from the Final Fantasy movie (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/inyri/gray_edwards.jpg) (as bad as it was) played strip poker in the film, it would've had more female viewers I guarantee. :drool1:

C'mon everyone, I think Inyri needs some alone time... :xp:

Ctrl Alt Del
09-04-2008, 02:42 PM
What could a Kotor MMO do to enhance playability and enjoyability for both genders? Are these things going to be different for the genders, and if so, how? Are there going to be similarities? If so, what would those be?
The only thing I can think on is a strong social feature, but that's intrinsic to any MMO out there.

Arátoeldar
09-04-2008, 03:25 PM
I don't think there's anything that could tempt me to play a KotOR MMO. I had my fill of 10 year olds running around screaming and yelling and ganking my kills when I played SWG. ;)

Ditto

While I have never played an MMO. I have had my fill of idiots playing multiplayer games. When I do play online. It is usually a game that the button mashing ADHD consolized generation of 13 year old kiddies tend to stay away from. I was following a LotR:O thread on SA until the idiots popped into the thread.

As an older male gamer, for me story is paramount. Secondly would be gameplay. There is no way Old Republic MMO can make the story interesting enough for me to play it.

DarthAve
09-04-2008, 03:59 PM
If we're still on topic, yesterday, the guys in my music analysis were all shocked when I pulled out game informer. It was a little funny, especially cause right after, I checked my horoscope in my Seventeen.

I'm just glad girl gamers are becoming more socially acceptable with games appealing to all like Guitar Hero and DDR.

Inyri
09-04-2008, 04:03 PM
Reminds me of the time I was with my boyfriend and his friend and I mentioned modding and they all looked at me funny. We were playing laser tag. What did they expect?! :xp:

Det. Bart Lasiter
09-04-2008, 05:29 PM
Reminds me of the time I was with my boyfriend and his friend and I mentioned modding and they all looked at me funny. We were playing laser tag. What did they expect?! :xp:A barrage of laser fire.

Rev7
09-04-2008, 06:37 PM
I'm from Wisconsin after all, and I do know my cheese.
:lol:
Something to make the blood of a female gamer possibly boil (or snort in derision, anyway).
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article3613881.ece
Oh wow o_Q



:(

Inyri
09-04-2008, 06:48 PM
I find it amusing that it only attracted 200,000 users in the UK, but immediately attracted 1.2 million in France. Poor France. :p

Da_man
09-05-2008, 01:41 AM
Ditto

While I have never played an MMO. I have had my fill of idiots playing multiplayer games. When I do play online. It is usually a game that the button mashing ADHD consolized generation of 13 year old kiddies tend to stay away from. I was following a LotR:O thread on SA until the idiots popped into the thread.

As an older male gamer, for me story is paramount. Secondly would be gameplay. There is no way Old Republic MMO can make the story interesting enough for me to play it.
Quoted For undeniable Truth. That is the reason I almost never play any of the Halo games online. That is why I play Burnout a lot, which doesn't require button-mashing, and needs a lot of concentration.
The Bimbos online thing is a lawsuit just waiting to happen. I can't wait to see the look on the creator's face when he gets sued because some nine year old starved herself to death trying to be a bimbo.

I'm still amazed how this conversation got around to porn stars from a website for kids and teen girls, on a thread about female gamers.

That's why, in my female wisdom, I got rid of those posts. :D --Jae

Arcesious
09-05-2008, 07:00 AM
I find it odd that the gaming club at my school only has four girls and 40-60 boys. :/

stoffe
09-05-2008, 07:34 AM
I find it odd that the gaming club at my school only has four girls and 40-60 boys. :/

Not that surprising to me, given the "nerd" label often applied to gamers by non-gamers, and the locker room culture that often exists in gaming communities. I know a few girls who use male-sounding names and male avatars when playing multi-player games just to be left alone and treated as equals. :)

Jae Onasi
09-05-2008, 01:34 PM
How is your club treating those girls, Arcesious?

Astor
09-05-2008, 01:40 PM
Not that surprising to me, given the "nerd" label often applied to gamers by non-gamers, and the locker room culture that often exists in gaming communities. I know a few girls who use male-sounding names and male avatars when playing multi-player games just to be left alone and treated as equals. :)

It's definately more acceptable to be a female video-gamer than it is a female wargamer.

We only had one girl in our wargaming group, who left soon after joining because she was often patronised for being interested in what, to many outsiders is often seen as a pursuit for beardy old men with an extreme interest in history.

At least with video-gaming they can hide their identities. (no disrespect intended, ladies)

Rachel_Ewok
09-05-2008, 03:03 PM
I guess this is kinda off topic from what is being talked about right now, but it is *in* topic if you were to just look at the thread.


Something that has always really annoyed me is the fact that you can't choose to be a female/male in Battlefront I and II. Sure, there is a female sniper, but I don't like to constantly be a sniper.

Yeah I know you really have to play as a male when you're playing as the Republic, and there aren't female storm troopers. But you could have female Imp officers, and also you could have any female unit for the Rebels...

So yeah, that's always something that had bugged me. I love Battlefront, but not the fact that it isn't really female/male gamer friendly.

(And yes, I'm a girl.... I *still* get people who think I'm a guy... Despite my username... People with alot less gender neutral usernames are known to be girls... so as to why it's not just a given for me is still a mystery to. =P)

I know a few girls who use male-sounding names and male avatars when playing multi-player games just to be left alone and treated as equals. :)

I have indeed been known to do that.

Inyri
09-05-2008, 03:15 PM
I got called a he yesterday. It's something you either get used to or you asplode. :lol:

I know a few girls who use male-sounding names and male avatars when playing multi-player games just to be left alone and treated as equals.I've done that before. I also set my gender to male in skype to get random 24 year old men to stop calling me.

It worked.

Rachel_Ewok
09-05-2008, 03:27 PM
I got called a he yesterday. It's something you either get used to or you asplode. :lol:



Inyri... You're a GIRL! @_@

Just kidding, I knew that.

But yeah, I've gotten used to it, but I don't really need to that much anyway.. Because it doesn't happen too often. XD

(back to female gamers) This has probably already been said, but, also in KOTOR I think that the females were gypped of a romance, in both I and II, the guys get these amazing storylines (espicially in I)... and the females don't even get a kiss like male Revan does.... *oh well* (Thank god for mods =P)

Web Rider
09-05-2008, 04:31 PM
(And yes, I'm a girl.... I *still* get people who think I'm a guy... Despite my username... People with alot less gender neutral usernames are known to be girls... so as to why it's not just a given for me is still a mystery to. =P)
I have indeed been known to do that.

I am consistently mistaken for a girl when I play a female character in MMOs, for some strange reason, I like to give my character a name, instead of "gankerkiller134234", it's like somehow you're a guy in a game if your gameworld revolves around being a jerk and killing people at random, and you're a girl if you're interested in character and story.

I generally answer people with: "do you ever feel stupid assuming that a female character means there's a female player?"

What happened to make so many male gamers seem to only be intersted in the violent aspects of a game? Personally I'd attribute it to marketing, making it look like that's the only way to be a "man".

Arátoeldar
09-05-2008, 04:45 PM
Inyri... You're a GIRL! @_@

Just kidding, I knew that.

But yeah, I've gotten used to it, but I don't really need to that much anyway.. Because it doesn't happen too often. XD

(back to female gamers) This has probably already been said, but, also in KOTOR I think that the females were gypped of a romance, in both I and II, the guys get these amazing storylines (espicially in I)... and the females don't even get a kiss like male Revan does.... *oh well* (Thank god for mods =P)

Neither gender got a good romance in TSL because Chris Avallone doesn't like to write romance tracks for games.

I actually think that the females got a better romance in K1. They both had issues that they had to work out. The male romance had the feel as something straight out of Jr high.

tk102
09-05-2008, 05:38 PM
What happened to make so many male gamers seem to only be intersted in the violent aspects of a game? Personally I'd attribute it to marketing, making it look like that's the only way to be a "man".
While women were nursing the children and the males were out killing animals, evolution happened. More interested in killing = more food for family = survival. We're just wired differently.

Web Rider
09-05-2008, 05:44 PM
While women were nursing the children and the males were out killing animals, evolution happened. More interested in killing = more food for family = survival. We're just wired differently.

except, men don't need to be out killing to get food anymore. In fact, hardly anyone goes out and hunts for food(besides fishing). I'm not arguing we're wired differently, it just seems male gamers seem to attribute combat with a good game and story and stuff seems to be relegated to females.

Astor
09-05-2008, 06:10 PM
except, men don't need to be out killing to get food anymore. In fact, hardly anyone goes out and hunts for food(besides fishing).

Wait, so you don't wrestle bears for your evening meals? :xp:

I'm not arguing we're wired differently, it just seems male gamers seem to attribute combat with a good game and story and stuff seems to be relegated to females.

That's something that bothers me too. I'm averse to too much violence in a game - I like a good story more than rearranging somebody's face with a bullet. But that doesn't make me a girl.

In fact, most gamers I know (male and female) like a story more than shooting.

Lynk Former
10-12-2008, 06:09 AM
This is what Ubisoft thinks of girl gamers...

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/515G9qXJmoL._SS500_.jpg

...how does this make you feel?

Sabretooth
10-12-2008, 08:14 AM
I know that it makes me feel like I'd hit it. Or them. Hmm.

True_Avery
10-12-2008, 07:18 PM
This is what Ubisoft thinks of girl gamers...

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/515G9qXJmoL._SS500_.jpg

...how does this make you feel?
http://i36.tinypic.com/2ro6ich.jpg

But, on the current topic, I think it really, honestly, varies person to person. There are shooters with a good story, and rpgs with a terrible story.

I personally believe story for female gamers is a stereotype as much as violence is for male. I'll personally play anything that I find interesting at the time, or pulls me in enough for me to pay it attention.

Final Fantasy, Gears of War.
Sims, Grand Theft Auto.
Spore, Turok.
Zoo Tycoon, Half-Life.

Same goes for my sister. Who was the first to buy Halo? My sister for her PC, and she played it like crazy. The first to get and play GTA3? My sister. She loves that game, and loved the weapons and gore cheats available.

I have a friend, and all she has is a Wii and a PS2. So, she plays Final fantasy and such. I handed her No More Heroes and said it was one of the best games she had ever played.

50% of gamers are female, if we show it off or not. Whether it be Guitar Hero (Which girls ****ing love), World Of Warcraft (Almost half of my 50 or so person guild was female), or Halo (More girls play this than guys would like to admit), we are pretty much even nowadays.

Currently, the female market loves the Sims which is not surprising. Its like house when you were a kid, but now with fire and shame. And why is The Sims series still #1 in games played? Because a lot of the female market loves them some Sims. I remember reading in a magazine poll once that, for female gamers, the #1 game is usually Sims and the second was... guess what? Halo 3.

Sure, I like a good story. And really, who hates a good story? Who sits down and sees a good story and just breaks the disk in half? Even though good is relative, everyone likes a good story and especially one tacked onto a great game.

And to blow a few more stereotypes out of the water, both me and my sister -LOVE- Tomb Raider games and Lara Croft.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Arátoeldar
10-12-2008, 07:27 PM
This is what Ubisoft thinks of girl gamers...

[img]http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/515G9qXJmoL._SS500_.jpg[img]

...how does this make you feel?

Just more of the retarded thinking at Ubisoft to appeal to the female gamers.

Ctrl Alt Del
10-12-2008, 07:58 PM
50% of gamers are female, if we show it off or not. Whether it be Guitar Hero (Which girls ****ing love), World Of Warcraft (Almost half of my 50 or so person guild was female), or Halo (More girls play this than guys would like to admit), we are pretty much even nowadays.
I wished.

'The gaming industry has market characteristics that many would die for.' According to IBISWorld, 38 per cent of US gamers are female, up from 33 per cent in just five years.

From January through August of 2008 females ages 18 to 45 made up 28 per cent of the total industry revenue, ranking second to males ages 18 to 45, who made up 37 per cent.
Source (http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Tech%2Band%2BScience/Story/STIStory_285419.html)

From my personal experience, most girls are willing to join the gaming world but somehow scared of doing so. My last girlfriend would initially only play The Sims, daily. Slowly, I managed to introduce her to some games, but the only one she really got into was Kingdom Hearts (which took her two long months to beat, with me always by her side), the rest she felt that was out of her grasp, despite my efforts.

Although we still meet to play Kingdom Hearts II from time to time, so I call that a win.

Inyri
10-12-2008, 09:17 PM
This is what Ubisoft thinks of girl gamers...

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/515G9qXJmoL._SS500_.jpg

...how does this make you feel?Dead inside.

Then again:

http://www.gametab.com/images/ss/xbox/1017/box-l.jpg

Ctrl Alt Del
10-12-2008, 09:31 PM
^ Guess I have one too, then.

http://jogaste.com.br/web/caixa/final-fantasy-x-2-ps2.jpg

Inyri
10-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Hey, that game was hilarious. You men have no sense of humor. :xp:

Ctrl Alt Del
10-12-2008, 09:49 PM
^ Oh I'm not complaining. For everything aside the story and gameplay were pretty small good... :naughty:

True_Avery
10-12-2008, 09:55 PM
I wished.


Source (http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Tech%2Band%2BScience/Story/STIStory_285419.html)

From my personal experience, most girls are willing to join the gaming world but somehow scared of doing so. My last girlfriend would initially only play The Sims, daily. Slowly, I managed to introduce her to some games, but the only one she really got into was Kingdom Hearts (which took her two long months to beat, with me always by her side), the rest she felt that was out of her grasp, despite my efforts.

Although we still meet to play Kingdom Hearts II from time to time, so I call that a win.
Key word: revenue.

We are less inclined to run out and buy games, as more often than not we get them second hand, from friends, by renting, etc.

Guys, more often than girls, will be the ones outside stores at 2am getting the games. We are the ones waiting at home ready to play it.

Lynk Former
10-12-2008, 11:39 PM
I've never seen girl gamers as anything that different. Ya'll play the same games everyone else plays... the only people who play those Ubisoft ones are preteen girls who don't know any better.

Jae Onasi
10-14-2008, 12:20 AM
This is what Ubisoft thinks of girl gamers...


...how does this make you feel?

Let me express how I truly feel about this game:

:barf:

Yar-El
10-14-2008, 01:54 AM
So, what should devs/gaming companies do to appeal to more females? More social interaction in MMOs? More role-playing games? Is there something in 'male games' that could be changed to make it more female friendly, if it should be changed in the first place? Should we work towards games that appeal to both genders or should there be 'male-friendly games' and 'female-friendly games'? Melrose Place meets Knights of the Old Republic? :roleyess: I have a hard time watching theCW. Roleplaying games are trying to mix things up; however, the developers keep rolling out the Neeshka character types. Whiney, whiney, whiney. Female characters need more of an edge. Don't get me started on perky with swords. That can stay in Japan.

Rathoris
10-14-2008, 05:11 AM
tbh i never see any female gamers on the games i play. (I mainly play fps games on the pc, Quake Live atm) So this whole female gamer revolution is something i have completely missed really. There are some girls i know of that play WoW but that's about it.
Maybe girls prefer singleplayer games? :confused:

MasterWaffle
10-14-2008, 07:21 AM
I doubt such a generalization would cover everyone, but as a female I find a lot of my kind prefer rpgs over fps. I personally prefer single-player games like Oblivion or (surprise!) KotOR. I hardly speak for everyone here, however! I suspect you'd be surprised how many girls there are on mmos of all types.

The thing I find with most mmos, and this is hardly a gender thing, is that it's difficult to immerse oneself in the storyline. Guild wars is the exception (in my limited experience), but I found the heavy emphasis on cooperative play annoying. I work alone, like an assassin. Or a crazy hermit. I'm a bit of a control freak. :)

Lynk Former
10-14-2008, 07:58 AM
The girls I'm friends with aren't really gamers... the best they do is play Singstar, Wii Sports and Wii Fit. My girlfriend played Mario Kart 64 with me back in the day and liked to play a few GBA games. She'd steal my GBA so many times that I ended up getting one for her birthday one year... she actually bought Metroid Fusion when it came out which was a real turn on lol.

Other than that, the only women I know who play games just as much as guys do are the ones I find on the net.

Inyri
10-14-2008, 10:00 AM
Lies. There are no girls on the internet.

Lynk Former
10-14-2008, 10:56 AM
Lies. There are no girls on the internet.
*snaps fingers* I keep forgetting that.

Rachel_Ewok
10-14-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't understand why you guys think that female gamers don't like shooting/violent games..?

I grew up watching my father play Hitman... Okay, well I was like, seven. But I LOVE a good violent game... (Bioshock!! ^.^)

But then again, I do love RPGs with beautiful stories, you really need to vary it because if you're constantly playing bloody, disgusting games you can fry your brain. *nodnod*

It's kind of insulting when you think about it, but that's where the game industry has gone... Women like less violent games and men love the shooter games with scantily clad women... Need I say more? I think we should be INSULTED by the sterotypes that have been granted to each of our genders in the gaming community! :emodanc:

I am, always in the mood for a good skirmish in Battlefront II though. =3

Inyri
10-14-2008, 04:07 PM
I grew up watching my father play Hitman... Okay, well I was like, seven. But I LOVE a good violent game... (Bioshock!! ^.^)I grew up watching my father play the original Legend of Zelda when it first came out. You people need to stop being so young. >.>

Rathoris
10-14-2008, 05:03 PM
i watched my dad play the original prince of persia.... those were the days :xp:

Ctrl Alt Del
10-14-2008, 05:19 PM
By the way, I grew watching my father playing Wolfenstein 3d. And watching my mom develop a strong rash to games. :xp:

Key word: revenue.

We are less inclined to run out and buy games, as more often than not we get them second hand, from friends, by renting, etc.

Guys, more often than girls, will be the ones outside stores at 2am getting the games. We are the ones waiting at home ready to play it.
It would also seem that guys are more open about it too. I don't remember the last time I saw a group or even a pair of women discussing the latest gaming hit.

I don't understand why you guys think that female gamers don't like shooting/violent games..?

I grew up watching my father play Hitman... Okay, well I was like, seven. But I LOVE a good violent game... (Bioshock!! ^.^)

But then again, I do love RPGs with beautiful stories, you really need to vary it because if you're constantly playing bloody, disgusting games you can fry your brain. *nodnod*

Wait, are you saying you don't think that Bioshock is a RPG with a beautiful story? :raise:

Inyri
10-14-2008, 05:20 PM
It would also seem that guys are more open about it too. I don't remember the last time I saw a group or even a pair of women discussing the latest gaming hit.My friend and I had a brief but intense discussion about The Force Unleashed at church on Sunday. :p

Ctrl Alt Del
10-14-2008, 05:42 PM
^ You're an internet person that haven't congratulated me on my birthday. Obviously you don't count. :xp:

Inyri
10-14-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't do birthday threads unless I notice them fairly quickly. >.>

Lynk Former
10-14-2008, 10:49 PM
I don't understand why you guys think that female gamers don't like shooting/violent games..?
...I never thought that.

patient_zero
10-15-2008, 06:54 AM
I grew up with my father watching me play Crash Bandicoot <_<; My family were never really into games until I decided I wanted a Gameboy Color for Christmas so I could play Pokémon Red. It just evolved from there.

Rachel_Ewok
10-15-2008, 05:39 PM
Wait, are you saying you don't think that Bioshock is a RPG with a beautiful story? :raise:


No I'm saying it's a good violent game, but it does have a good story. XD


I grew up watching my father play the original Legend of Zelda when it first came out. You people need to stop being so young. >.>

:rofl:

...I never thought that.

Never said you thought that. ;)

And as for growing up watching father's play games? Apparently I used to sit on his lap when I was like, 3 and watch him play this battleship game on like... A Dos computer... Or something like that, and when I was older I remember watching him play The Abyss (terrible graphics XD), I also remember sitting on his lap and watching the original Civilization game, but those Hitman memories are my favorite.

Jae Onasi
10-15-2008, 07:50 PM
My dad and I played 'Cat and Mouse' and 'Haunted House' on a Magnovox Odyssey, and played Pong together at my aunt's house. We also used his leftover punch cards to keep tallies for our board games.

Lynk Former
10-16-2008, 12:30 AM
My sister used to play some videogames years ago, but now she thinks they're a waste of time... actually I think she may think they're evil cause now she thinks they're just all "murder simulators" or some crap like that... I don't know where it all went wrong *sighs*

MasterWaffle
10-16-2008, 02:56 AM
I grew up watching my father discuss politics. Why did you all got the cool dads?

My introduction to gaming was playing Sonic on an ancient Sega Genesis. My brother and I used to fight over the controllers. Ah, Memories.