PDA

View Full Version : The Anonymous vs. Scientology War


SilentScope001
03-17-2008, 02:04 PM
/sigh.

You can see lots of articles about this war. I'm not even going to bother linking them. I just want to rant, because I'm just generally upset.

NPOV Summary: Anonymous (4chan) hates CoS. Therefore, they are organizing a peaceful, non-violent movement to persaude other people into thinking CoS is bad. They put posters, organize rallies, and co-ordinate DDoS attacks against Scientology websites. Their goal is to raise awareness about their cause. CoS is responding by trying to sue Anonymous, which failed. The CoS now alleges members of Anonymous of using death threats. Anonymous is alleging CoS is lying about Anonymous using death threats.

The feud all started with a video about Tom Cruise ranting that appeared on Youtube. CoS sued to have that video be taken down because they held the copyright to it. Anonymous got angry, so that's how the war begins.


Basically, Anonymous is wanting to harras the CoS. Why? The lulz. Oh, and they hate CoS too. They are waging peaceful protests. Fine. CoS have a shady history. I know.

Anonymous are doing DDoS attacks on the Scientology website...in other words, try to shut down a website! And they state that they are FOR free speech! Hah! How is it free speech to shut down the website of your attackers? DDoS attacks are pretty 'cyberterroristic', as it denys people to right to see the website in question! It can cause untold damages to internet businesses, but it's obivously okay because Anonymous are 'good guys'?

No, the main reason I hate Anonymous is simpler. If this is succesful, then it bodes ill, because then other people will begin to use the power of the Internet to wage the exact same type of warfare. What would happen if they turn it against my religion? Or worse, turn it on a political party? Or turn it on the tiny Socialist club on the middle of the street? If Anonymous succeds, then you are giving the Internet dezines the equiviliant of automatic rifles, what makes you think they would use them responsibly?

That's it. That's the only reason. CoS may rot or may prosper, I don't care. But Anonymous MUST rot. The anarchy of the Internet is fine. I don't want the anarchy to transalate into attacking people in real life.

Sabretooth
03-17-2008, 11:50 PM
Now I have a feed to Digg, so it's impossible for me to miss this, since it's pretty much all over Digg. I think it sucks.

I think Anonymous is conceited - they are a group of ordinary hackers who want to take on some big fish and look cool doing that. There's no harm there, but they go on boasting, releasing mysterious videos in an attempt to look "cool", take on Tom Cruise and stuff, making themselves look like they are righteous revolters who are fighting for a cause of freedom.

I don't know a whole lot about Scientology other than it's a cult (and I find cults pathetic), but whatever it is, it doesn't warrant an attack on its website.

IMO, the guys at Anonymous need to be arrested - this is illegal, unlawful and plain out bad.

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-18-2008, 12:13 AM
I think Anonymous is conceited - they are a group of ordinary hackers who want to take on some big fish and look cool doing that.The idiots involved in all this bull**** are the cancer that is killing 4chan and moot needs to slay them.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 01:08 AM
The cancer that is killing 4Chan? Wow, that's an interesting concept. A Cancer...killing a Cancer. Fight Cancer! With Cancer!

Arcesious
03-18-2008, 01:17 AM
To fight fire with fire- or with gasoline... My research from Wiki, summarized on scientology: Scientology is a cult that attempts to put science into religious terms to help people spiritually by using 'science' to solve problems.

Yeah I think it's stupid too...

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-18-2008, 01:22 AM
The cancer that is killing 4Chan? Wow, that's an interesting concept. A Cancer...killing a Cancer. Fight Cancer! With Cancer!It's like a biological cockfight.

To fight fire with fire- or with gasoline... My research from Wiki, summarized on scientology: Scientology is a cult that attempts to put science into religious terms to help people spiritually by using 'science' to solve problems.

Yeah I think it's stupid too...Scientology is a bunch of bull**** taken from a book written by a pedophile Sci-Fi writer.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 01:38 AM
Logically, if Anonymous is killing 4Chan, shouldn't we be cheering them on?

Arcesious
03-18-2008, 01:50 AM
Fine with me. The world would be better without crap like 4chan anyways. If you fight enough fire with fire, the fires cancel each-other out, as is what can happen in this situation.

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-18-2008, 01:54 AM
Logically, if Anonymous is killing 4Chan, shouldn't we be cheering them on?Logically, destruction is a form of creation, and it will rise from the ashes stronger than ever.

If you fight enough fire with fire, the fires cancel each-other out, as is what can happen in this situation.Wow.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 01:56 AM
Actually, Arcesious, in the real world when you fight fire with fire, you tend to get an even bigger fire. But we're not dealing with the real world, we're dealing with the internets, and I'm reasonably certain that 4Chan is not, in fact, the Phoenix of legend.

Det. Bart Lasiter
03-18-2008, 01:57 AM
Actually, Arcesious, in the real world when you fight fire with fire, you tend to get an even bigger fire. But we're not dealing with the real world, we're dealing with the internets, and I'm reasonably certain that 4Chan is not, in fact, the Phoenix of legend.You lie.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 01:59 AM
The Phoenix is supposed to be a magnificent being of light that's beautiful to behold. 4Chan, and the Chans in general, are the internet's offal. The two are unlikely to meet.

True_Avery
03-18-2008, 02:25 AM
To fight fire with fire- or with gasoline... My research from Wiki, summarized on scientology: Scientology is a cult that attempts to put science into religious terms to help people spiritually by using 'science' to solve problems.

Yeah I think it's stupid too...
Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Xenu the alien ruler Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).

After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xenu is still alive today.

That sound like a "cult that attempts to put science into religious terms"? It is a religion that was created by L. Ron Hubbard through a science fiction novel.

He made it so that he could make money and get a tax cut and live a comfortable life. The CoS has a history of dealing forcefully, which can include blackmail and even violence, with critics and perceived enemies (whom the organization calls "suppressive persons"). CoS has a long history of suing any dissenters, and have tried a number of times to block negative information about Scientology from the internet. They do not believe in mental health medications, and have been responsible for the deaths of many of their members. In many situations, in order to gain spiritual 'rank' within Scientology you must pay ungodly large amounts of money, so its mostly run by a bunch of rich people with more than enough money to stretch the law.

Basically, they are like most religions out there... but newer. Hell, Christianity started out as a cult. Don't believe me? Go research on why fish is so important.

Despite it being a questionable move, "Anonymous" decided to attack the CoS when the CoS ordered the removal of all material giving a negative impact on Scientology from youtube and other websites. Both sides are responsible for some freedom of speech violations, but if I had to pick a side... I'll pick the side of the people that aren't running a cult.

The hackers who took down the sites have a few things to answer for, but I don't believe there is anything against the law regarding nonviolent protesting. One reason they wear masks is to look 'cool', but mostly its because there are Scientologists watching the protesters with cameras in order to film their face, find out who they are, and try and sue them at a later date.

Fine with me. The world would be better without crap like 4chan anyways.
4chan is an image board where people post pics and say stupid stuff to each other. The majority of the members don't even do this Anonymous stuff. I could argue that the world would be better without people who think Scientology is a religion about science, but that would be mean.


The Phoenix is supposed to be a magnificent being of light that's beautiful to behold. 4Chan, and the Chans in general, are the internet's offal. The two are unlikely to meet.
I hang around 4chan from time to time, and my friends love it. Stay away from the 18+ boards, and it can be pretty damn hilarious I think.

Besides, 4chan's boards are every part of the internet on one image forum. If you want something to spit on, spit on the internet. There are plenty of worse places to be. Trolls are on every forum. Porn is at pretty much every corner of the internet. 4chan just makes all corners of the internet easier to get to on one website.

In the end, its like pi**ing into an ocean of pi**. It is one website out of billions, and it is hardly worth putting out into the open and saying "this is bad!" Seriously, this thread sounds like that hilarious Fox News special on Anonymous. Don't know what it is?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY
Have fun laughing at it.

Scientology has done over 50 years worth of attacking people's lives and ruining many of them. 4chan has been around for a couple of years.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 02:29 AM
I'm not saying I'm against Anonymous, quite the opposite. I just despise the Chans. They're everything that's bad about the Internet - Furries and Morons, coalesced into a single tiny block.

By the way, Avery, the whole 'All Religion is Evil' Schtick is getting old.

True_Avery
03-18-2008, 02:31 AM
By the way, Avery, the whole 'All Religion is Evil' Schtick is getting old.
When did I ever say that?

SilentScope001
03-18-2008, 02:32 AM
People may have different views about Scientology, but Anonymous is the one that has broken the law by engaging in DDoS attacks. The law doesn't stop applying to groups you don't like. If people tolerate Anonymous breaking the law, don't be suprised if this sort of 'mob justice' starts attacking other groups too.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 02:36 AM
Basically, they are like most religions out there... but newer. Hell, Christianity started out as a cult. Don't believe me? Go research on why fish is so important.


Alright, not verbatim, but you call Christianity a Cult, which is a word with extremely negative connotations, apparently because they had their people eat fish on Friday to help the fishing industry.

Jae Onasi
03-18-2008, 02:37 AM
Actually, True_Avery has a right to believe however she wants to believe about religion, and can express said opinions here in Kavar's as long as it's done respectfully, just as you do, Corinthian.

This thread is just so...bizarre. If it gets too much more bizarre, it will experience the not-so-gentle touch of Mr. Lock.

Corinthian
03-18-2008, 02:54 AM
I'm fully aware of her right to his opinions. I was simply informing her of MY opinion that the Religion = Evil schtick was getting old and she needed to move onto new material, such as suggesting that Christ was, in fact, participating in distribution of marijuana and formed the core of cannabis culture.

True_Avery
03-18-2008, 03:44 AM
Alright, not verbatim, but you call Christianity a Cult, which is a word with extremely negative connotations, apparently because they had their people eat fish on Friday to help the fishing industry.
In the years following the ascension of the resurrected Jesus to heaven, the Christian church grew rapidly. Christians soon found themselves to be the subjects of persecution by both the Romans and the Jews. In many locales, it became dangerous to be known as a Christian. Thus, when two strangers met and thought maybe they were fellow believers, one of them would draw, on the ground, the upper half of the fish symbol.
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishhalve1.gif
Recognizing the symbol, the stranger would add a second curved line and complete the drawing of a fish.
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishhalve2.gif
It is a very simple shape to draw - just two curved strokes. It could be drawn quickly, and erased just as quickly if there was no sign of recognition on the part of the stranger.

http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishsymbol.htm
http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_fish_symbol.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The word "Cult" means this:
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.

The literal and traditional meaning of the word cult is derived from the Latin cultus meaning "care" or "adoration", which from ancient times meant a traditional practice of religion or the tribal beliefs which preceded formal religions.

Since at least the 1920s to 40s, the approach of orthodox, conservative, or fundamentalist Christians was to apply the meaning of cult such that it included those religious groups who used (possibly exclusively) non-standard translations of the Bible, put additional revelation on a similar or higher level than the Bible, or had beliefs and/or practices that were not held by current, mainstream Christianity.

By some definition, cult could hold the same meaning as any normal religion. By other definitions, it is something that is not a formal religion, or something that does not follow fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

By some of those definitions, Christianity could be considered a cult, or could have started out as a cult. The early Christians had to hide from the Romans, thus making them below what was a formal religion back then. Or, a cult.

"Cult" is commonly accepted as a negative belief system, but a cult is simply an unorthodox religion for its time. Christians, as said before, use "cult" to refer to something that is, by some definition, not Christian.

In common society today, "cult" is a word given to a group of brainwashers, exploiters, "witchercraft", and other groups that may or may not manipulate people into a belief system. Depending on the situation, the person, and the point of view, nearly any religion (including modern day Christianity) could be considered a cult. The documentary "Jesus Camp" is an example of how Christianity today could fall, under some situations, into the modern day definition for the word "cult". Being raised and taught to be a tight Christian could be considered by some to be a form of brainwashing, manipulation, or indoctrination, thus also putting it into the current day definition of "cult".

What I'm trying to say is, the word has been manipulated for so long that it is hard to give it a meaning anymore. It is commonly accepted as a negative, but what it is an unorthodox religion for its time. Brainwashing is unorthodox now, but I'm sure throughout history that was even seen as a social norm once.

I'm not calling Christianity a negative in this sense. I'm calling it what it was at the time when the Ichthys (fish) was a sign of secrecy and digression. Today, I'm sure a religion that runs around making fish signs would be persecuted and called a "cult" by some, because that is exactly what it would be.

I'm fully aware of her right to hes opinions. I was simply informing her of MY opinion that the Religion = Evil schtick was getting old and she needed to move onto new material, such as suggesting that Christ was, in fact, participating in distribution of marijuana and formed the core of cannabis culture.
I have attempted to hide my remarks and opinions of your common views or "material", Corinthian. I know I have bitten back a few times, and I regret that. I do not have the best posting history myself, and I have been trying to make myself better lately. But, I have a very hard time respecting your opinion when you have shown on numerous occasions to not show respect or restraint when expressing your views on others. If you feel my or others posts are "old", or do not suit your eyes or view on life, then simply do not read them and/or restrain yourself from posting snide and sarcastic remarks towards me and others. When you do that, I believe many will treat you with more respect.

Until then, I will still ask you to please stop posting snide and sarcastic remarks and generally trolling members. I will try my best to respect your opinion from now on, but if you do it again to me or other members without cause I will report you.

Again:
Actually, True_Avery has a right to believe however she wants to believe about religion, and can express said opinions here in Kavar's as long as it's done respectfully, just as you do, Corinthian.

Ontopic:
No, the main reason I hate Anonymous is simpler. If this is succesful, then it bodes ill, because then other people will begin to use the power of the Internet to wage the exact same type of warfare. What would happen if they turn it against my religion? Or worse, turn it on a political party? Or turn it on the tiny Socialist club on the middle of the street? If Anonymous succeds, then you are giving the Internet dezines the equiviliant of automatic rifles, what makes you think they would use them responsibly?
I see your point, but this seems to be making mountains out of molehills. I think in the situation of "terrorism" (whatever that means nowadays), actions do in fact speak louder than words, or typed words. All of those websites are back up and running and no permanent damage was done. It was probably illegal, I agree, but I'd venture to say that a large portion of the internet population does illegal things.

If we are going to make mountains out of molehills, lets consider this:
The authorities from multiple countries knock down on internet hackers. New laws and authorities are put into place to stop that. When does that end? Do they start going after everyone that is cheating the companies by downloading free music and movies? Does everybody who used Anonymous get pulled for questioning (Take in mind that tens of thousands of people from different countries)? Could moderators be considered for violating freedom of speech laws?

I'm going off on a limb, but I'm sure you have 1 or 2 illegal songs or something on your computer. You could get fined roughly $10,000 for both of those. Stopping some teen hackers is one thing; Putting in place new laws to do so is another. The internet is the internet, and currently there are very few laws governing it. I'd personally like to keep it that way.

I don't think your comparison of hacking and automatic rifles is fair, but lets say it is. I don't trust the automatic rifles in the hands of the authorities anymore than I do the teenagers. Anonymous is a group that does stupid sh*t like this once a year or two, and then they forget about it and move on. You are giving a bunch of teenagers more credit than they deserve, and caring about it more than you need.

If you don't follow my mountains-out-of-molehills for this subject, watch this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY (Most of this "info" is fake, by the way)
Anonymous is a bunch of teens and lonely people that post images and talk all day on 4chan. This is almost as bad as pointing at a bunch of teenagers putting marker on a wall and screaming "Terrorists!"

Is vandalizing a wall against the law? Yeah.
Is it worth calling the police over? No, they have better things to be doing.
Is it terrorism? I personally don't think so.

Ray Jones
03-18-2008, 08:46 AM
Actually, you can kill fire with fire. The put out oil well fires that way.

Physically one fire is taking away the oxygen the other fire needs. Practically you only can kill a fire with a fire which is "burning" oxygen at a much higher rate. That means you cannot kill the flame of a match with a lighter, or by spilling benzine over it (really a BAD idea) or something. Only an explosion will do the trick. Tiny explosion in case of a match, big explosion in case of an oil well.

However, as usual, DON'T try to ignite or kill any fires on your own, kids! Play LEGO instead.



That said, Scientology is a dangerous flame aiming to destroy humanity and society, and the only way to put it out is the entire world's supply of C4. :carms:

Jae Onasi
03-18-2008, 10:16 AM
Advisory to everyone: Sarcasm is considered flaming in Kavar's. Word your posts accordingly unless you like the staff coming in and editing your posts and giving you warnings.
Ray--don't advise people to blow up a religion. Someone might actually take you seriously and give it a try. ;)