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Arcesious
04-24-2008, 12:53 AM
Well there's something I would like to discuss but keep in this thread, since this thread is titled 'China', and what I have to ask is about China.
Mainly what I have to ask is about Kim Jong II and the people in China suffering and starving... What are your opinions of those issues?

Hopefully this will not be considered a necro. I considered it to be soemthing worthwhile of discussion, as I want to hear opinions on this sort of thing that aren't just from the narrow view of the media.

JCarter426
04-24-2008, 01:04 AM
Mainly what I have to ask is about Kim Jong II...

Kim Jong Il is North Korean. ;)

Arcesious
04-24-2008, 01:08 AM
Oh he's not the leader of China then...?
Oh.... sorry... I've go to pay more attention in S.S/civics class... Who is the leader of China then?

JCarter426
04-24-2008, 01:13 AM
Mao Zedong. Wait, that can't be right... ;) The current Chairman is Hu Jintao. No, you probably don't hear that name often, unlike Kim II.

Jae Onasi
04-24-2008, 01:49 AM
split from the China thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=187751). :)

Totenkopf
04-24-2008, 02:30 AM
Mao Zedong. Wait, that can't be right... ;) The current Chairman is Hu Jintao. No, you probably don't hear that name often, unlike Kim II.

Damn, thought it was Confucious. :D But since we appear to be talking about NK here, I'd say that the sooner KJI passes, the better for the oppressed people of NK.

Rev7
04-24-2008, 02:37 AM
I am not sure if there really is anything that we (US/ any other country) can do to help. They would probably kidnap the people that went to help. Who knows....
But since we appear to be talking about NK here, I'd say that the sooner KJI passes, the better for the oppressed people of NK.
I guess so. Hopefully there isn't any worse of a leader in line...

JCarter426
04-24-2008, 02:56 AM
Hopefully there isn't any worse of a leader in line...

I don't think there could possibly be a worse leader...well, except for... ;)

Rev7
04-24-2008, 03:01 AM
I don't think there could possibly be a worse leader...well, except for... ;)
Hey, you never know what could happen. ;)

BTW--Who?

JCarter426
04-24-2008, 03:07 AM
I'm pretty sure they've wire-tapped my phone and have installed spyware on my computer, so I can't say who. :xp:

Jae Onasi
04-24-2008, 03:12 AM
Damn, thought it was Confucious. :D But since we appear to be talking about NK here, I'd say that the sooner KJI passes, the better for the oppressed people of NK.

Well, we thought his predecessor was bad and this guy's worse. I wouldn't wish for his demise too soon. Lord only knows what we might end up with next.

I'm pretty sure they've wire-tapped my phone and have installed spyware on my computer, so I can't say who.
<.<
>.>

LF iz in ur puter, stealin ur datas....

Arcesious
04-24-2008, 10:10 AM
It just isn't right, you know?

The people in NK and China deserve to use democracy after all of the hard work and suffering they've gone through. Only problem is, how do you get some of the largest armies in the world to defect agaisnt their leader? Or have the peopele in those armies been brainwashed too far?
Communism in China may be vital to the econmies of many countries , but... That's money. We're talking about innocent people here who live in very poor conditions. 1.3 Billion people...

Also to mention: Has the Cold War truly ever ended? We're all still making more and more weapons, and China still has communism...
Now although European countrieas aren't very much oppressed, I find it unfair that some still use monarchies. (Or do they finally use democracy now?)

mur'phon
04-24-2008, 10:29 AM
First: European monarchies are only monarchies in name. The king/quen's only job is to hand out prizes and impress countries that can be impressed that way. Some have slightly more power, but that's basically it.

Second: China isn't communist at all, free/partially free markets and communism don't mix.

As for them becoming democratic, at least in China people seem to slowly realize they have rights, and the party is responding by softening up a little. Heck, a state newspaper even had a fairly balanced debate about it. While it may be taking China forever to get to "western-style" democracy, it seems that it will eventually happen.

JCarter426
04-24-2008, 10:42 AM
First: European monarchies are only monarchies in name. The king/quen's only job is to hand out prizes and impress countries that can be impressed that way. Some have slightly more power, but that's basically it.

That, and they waste half their money paying their monarchs to do absolutely nothing. It's really quite ridiculous and offensive.

As for them becoming democratic, at least in China people seem to slowly realize they have rights, and the party is responding by softening up a little. Heck, a state newspaper even had a fairly balanced debate about it. While it may be taking China forever to get to "western-style" democracy, it seems that it will eventually happen.

Possibly. They still have a long way to go, but it isn't nearly repressed as North Korea, which has absolutely no access to the outside world. Oh, and they give all their money to Kim, only he actually does have power.

mur'phon
04-24-2008, 12:57 PM
That, and they waste half their money paying their monarchs to do absolutely nothing. It's really quite ridiculous and offensive.

Aye, got a friend in the army who has to protect our wealthiest social-security-leecher.

@Arc: As much as I dislike the chineese government, with regards to ending poverty, they seem to be doing a mighty fine job. NK is a different matter, a more eficent kleptocracy is hard to come by.

Web Rider
04-24-2008, 01:17 PM
China is pretty much a socialist-totalitarian centrally planned socio-economic system, you can't describe the complexity that is China's setup with just one word, though that's really true for anyone. Like how we're not a "democracy" we're a Democratically represented constitutional republic.

And the question of the Chinese being oppressed is a difficult one, culturally, the Chinese have been oppressed by their government pretty much forever. And not all the people are starving and impoverished, China has all the classes just like any other country, the only difference is that 90% of their wage goes to their government. Which isn't that bad considering that the government pays for your home, you're water, you're electricity, you're healthcare, you're education, and so on.

Americans have 30-50% of their income go to the government, and then spend all but a little of the rest. A quick thought will tell you how that percentage would go up if the government covered everything but food and drink.

Furthermore, we hear about these terrible wages in China, and we need to keep in mind that a loaf of bread is not 3 bucks there like it is here. Aside from oppressing freedom, China's really not treating it's people that poorly(on the whole).