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Fortune Hunter
06-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that the Apprentice holds his lightsaber backwards? I really wish he would hold it normally because it looks better that way.

TKA-001
06-06-2008, 04:56 PM
If he holds it normally, the player won't be able to see it from a third-person perspective.

Boba Rhett
06-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Holding a lightsaber normally isn't new and edgy enough. Didn't you get the memo?

Gurges-Ahter
06-06-2008, 05:07 PM
You're not the only one, but I do not understand why this bothers people.

Boba Rhett
06-06-2008, 05:39 PM
Probably because it just feels like a change for the sake of change.

Gurges-Ahter
06-06-2008, 06:25 PM
I can understand that... but the fact that it's backwards alone doesn't bother me. I've seen other posts where people are legitimately bothered by the fact that it's backwards.

Fortune Hunter
06-06-2008, 07:05 PM
I think the conventional way looks better, that's all I'm saying.

I wont feel any differently about the game because of it (there are much better things like the lack of content for the Next Gen Consoles to worry about), I wont lose sleep over it either, I just think it looks dumb.

Gurges-Ahter
06-06-2008, 07:09 PM
Sorry if it came across this way, Fortune, but I really didn't intend to criticize your viewpoint. I was really speaking about an earlier thread on the topic where people seemed genuinely upset by it.

Ctrl Alt Del
06-06-2008, 08:20 PM
There's another topic a little down this one commenting on the "fancy" way the Apprentice holds his saber. I shall repeat my comment there: People, you're way to orthodox.

TKA-001
06-06-2008, 10:42 PM
It's not my fault.

RyuuKage
06-06-2008, 10:55 PM
Personally I like an accurate representation of Shien, lol (not like kotor where changing styles just changes stats).

Serpentine Cougar
06-07-2008, 12:27 AM
I like it, I think it looks cool. But I'll have to wait and see how it looks and plays in-game, though. Still, I think it'll be great.

M@RS
06-07-2008, 12:40 AM
The form is called "Shien" and I like it better, mainly because it isn't used in any other game that I know of :)

Micahc
06-10-2008, 10:20 PM
I think it looks pretty tight, it's a good way to break the mold as far as lightsabers go.

Plus it's pretty much bad ass.

Gurges-Ahter
06-10-2008, 10:52 PM
I agree - I think it looks cool too and I think it adds an element of the Apprentice being an arrogant bada$$.

Rev7
06-10-2008, 11:02 PM
It really doesn't bother me. I think that it is pretty cool actually. It is different. Starkiller is a different kinda guy I guess. To me, he really isn't 'conventional'. ;)

M@RS
06-10-2008, 11:57 PM
It's awesome, no one else uses Shien as their primary form, I love Shien, whenever I'm having a saber fight with a friend I try to use Shien, it's fun, and hard... ;)

darth_anger
06-11-2008, 01:36 PM
I think it's something new and kinda cool, edgy, ya know? If you think of the first time you saw Darth Maul's dual lightsaber, and thought "Oh cool, I hadn't thought of that" Or Dooku's curved hilt, it's not traditional, but neither is the SA. He's unleashed, a bit rough around the edges, and I think it was very fitting to have a new force 'wrecking ball' come out with a badass way of holding his saber.

that being said, I can see how it would bother some... just the same way not being able to dual wield is bothering some.

M@RS
06-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Yeah, it's new, it's cool, it's different, it's Vader's Secret Aprentice...:lol:

MacTavish
06-15-2008, 08:32 AM
I like it, its aggresive and it fits the apprentice's character well.

Zerimar Nyliram
06-15-2008, 01:14 PM
It's a personal style. We see a lot of different styles all over the movies and Expanded Universe (Count Dooku being particularly noteworthy), so Starkiller's style doesn't bother me one bit.

RyuuKage
06-15-2008, 03:18 PM
that being said, I can see how it would bother some... just the same way not being able to dual wield is bothering some.

despite the fact that jar'kai is my favorite style, the fact that you can't do it in this game still doesn't bother me. XD

SA's shien looks too cool for disappointment :)

Jae Onasi
06-18-2008, 07:07 AM
Holding a lightsaber normally isn't new and edgy enough. Didn't you get the memo?

He's only expecting to get enemies from behind. With his uber-coolness radiating so strongly, no one would dare attack from the front.

RyuuKage
06-18-2008, 04:58 PM
He's only expecting to get enemies from behind. With his uber-coolness radiating so strongly, no one would dare attack from the front.

OR...his eyes shoot Force Death-Beams! XD

M@RS
06-18-2008, 06:23 PM
Like this? :lazeye:

Lord Foley
06-18-2008, 11:02 PM
It doesn't bother me, but I do wonder: What possible advantage is there to holding your lightsaber like that? I mean, yeah, you can hold your lightsaber any way you want and call it a new form, but how exactly is that helping?

RyuuKage
06-19-2008, 01:04 AM
It doesn't bother me, but I do wonder: What possible advantage is there to holding your lightsaber like that? I mean, yeah, you can hold your lightsaber any way you want and call it a new form, but how exactly is that helping?

it has the element of mystery. not many people use Shien as a primary style, so not many would know how to counter it well either. keeping your opponent guessing is half the battle.

General LiWar
06-19-2008, 01:32 AM
I personally think it's kinda cool to have the change. I would be a little unconventional in my saber holding if i was that powerful

If he holds it normally, the player won't be able to see it from a third-person perspective.
In JK, JK2, JA, BF2 (I cant think of any more at the moment) the 3rd person perspective shows the lightsaber.

Believe it or not, it is a bit more defensive with a different attack style added. It also is a way to hold a sword (anyone seen equilibrium. I know it's not real but the idea for such a grip had to come from somewhere)

Ctrl Alt Del
06-19-2008, 02:09 PM
it has the element of mystery. not many people use Shien as a primary style, so not many would know how to counter it well either. keeping your opponent guessing is half the battle.

I agree. The imprevisibility of the form is it's strong point.

M@RS
06-19-2008, 02:40 PM
It's different, it bugs just a little, because I don't know how he'll swing :lol: I love to watch Shien in use when fighting with friends, because they always hit something sensative :xp: I'm curious to see how'l he'll swing and fight...

Prime
06-24-2008, 11:09 PM
GIMIC!!

LordSerion
06-28-2008, 08:06 AM
I think he is a Shien user - after all, Vader is his master, and as Anakin he was most proficient in Form V.

Iron Rose
07-06-2008, 12:46 PM
If he holds it normally, the player won't be able to see it from a third-person perspective.

If I am correct the Jedi Knight games were in 3rd person and I never had a problem seeing the lightsaber. Regarding the original post, I think they just did it so the SA would stand out, wich I hardly see as a good reason.

TKA-001
07-06-2008, 03:31 PM
I didη't claim that it was a good reason. I was simply repeating what one of the game designer persons said[ about it].

Jeff
07-06-2008, 09:54 PM
Here is a Wii gameplay video that was put out several days ago: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/885367/star-wars-the-force-unleashed/videos/forceuwii_070208.html

I'm watching it right now and not seeing the apprentice use the reverse grip, it looks like he is holding his lightsaber like we're used to. TBH I kind of like the reverse grip for him, makes him like "I'm too badass for a normal grip".

adamqd
07-07-2008, 03:56 AM
Cool, I bought a wii last week, so I've got 360 and wii versions a comin :) best of both worlds, Oh yeah thats master Kavar from TSL speakin to the apprentice...

Cygnus Q'ol
07-07-2008, 11:05 AM
I don't know what all the fuss' about.

It looks cool as hell.

Ctrl Alt Del
07-07-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm watching it right now and not seeing the apprentice use the reverse grip, it looks like he is holding his lightsaber like we're used to. TBH I kind of like the reverse grip for him, makes him like "I'm too badass for a normal grip".

Makes sense. If people are meant to hold the Remote as a saber grip, then the devs must assume that most people won't have training on holding the saber that way.

It's kinda like Twilight Princess. Everyone knows Link is left-handed, though on the Wii version he holds his sword on the right hand, since most people are right-handed.

Rev7
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
Here is a Wii gameplay video that was put out several days ago: http://wii.ign.com/dor/objects/885367/star-wars-the-force-unleashed/videos/forceuwii_070208.html

I'm watching it right now and not seeing the apprentice use the reverse grip, it looks like he is holding his lightsaber like we're used to. TBH I kind of like the reverse grip for him, makes him like "I'm too badass for a normal grip".
That is probably just for the Wii version. :giveup:

Ctrl Alt Del
07-07-2008, 02:21 PM
That is probably just for the Wii version. :giveup:

That's what I said. People may have some problems holding and shaking the remote the way the Apprentice does.

TKA-001
07-07-2008, 02:35 PM
That's what I said. People may have some thing holding and shaking the remote the way the Apprentice does.
That would be even more absurd than holding it "normally".

PoiuyWired
07-08-2008, 07:41 PM
It doesn't bother me, but I do wonder: What possible advantage is there to holding your lightsaber like that? I mean, yeah, you can hold your lightsaber any way you want and call it a new form, but how exactly is that helping?

Well, since he is obviously a force user he is never unarmed even without his lightsaber, as in the saber being his secondary weapon. So how he "holds" the saber is not too important then, as long as it provides easy access.

If he likes to swing the blade two-handed then the reverse grip is of no good/ill effect, one simply revert to normal two-handed grip during a swing.

Now for MY OWN OPINION, WHICH PROBABLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEV'S MARGINAL UNDERSTANDING OF BLADE COMBAT:

Well, a two-handed grip on a (short) staff type sometimes uses a reverse grip, so that both your thumbs are pointing at each other (well not really, but you get the picture) like the tusken raiders. Since you would hold the 1/3-1/4 of the staff only (if you don't want to switch tips) it is quite usable for lightsaber styles.

Remember that lightsaber is more like a staff (that cut things) than a sword in many says. You never have to worry about the cutting edge, blade direction and such, allowing you to do many things impossable with a regular vibro sword.

Obviously there are disadvantages also for the omni direction supper cutter. The lack of a non-cutting blade means parrying can be hard, as well as super close range encounters. The super cutting ability definitely helps here in really close range, but there are enough stuff in this universe that can at least withstand the "hot blade through butter" cutting speed by slowing it down significantly (ignoring those that can actually parry or disable lightsabers) Your weapon being stuck (or even slowed) for a moment spells big trouble. Hack, even an armor that can take an extra whacking would spell trouble also. Force power helps, but at this range sharp pointy things poses almost as big a danger, if not more.

Thrawn
07-09-2008, 09:22 PM
I think it lends itself to the way the apprentice character is supposed to act. He is a human weapon, and the behind lightsaber pose looks more aggressive. The traditional jedi stance makes for easier defense.

Ryazan
08-21-2008, 03:10 PM
I always laugh when I think about how some people are so neurotic that they get upset because of how someone holds something.

Tomak Ta-Zak
08-21-2008, 03:13 PM
Well in an interview with Hayden during E3. They stated he holds his lightsaber behind him because of all the intense force powers he is using. Having the blade infront of him might disrupt some of the force using supposedly and it lets you see the lightsaber. Imagine having that shiny red beam of death infront of you while channeling a lightning attack haha.

LordSerion
08-25-2008, 03:44 PM
Yeah, it'd seriously disturb the sight of the screaming enemies.

TimbukTurnip
08-25-2008, 04:04 PM
It's a gimick, plain and simple

Jacob Nion
08-25-2008, 04:29 PM
I think they way he holds his lightsaber backwards like that is actualy really cool. I heard it was to defeclt lazer fire from behind.

Da_Man_2423
08-25-2008, 04:30 PM
Well in an interview with Hayden during E3. They stated he holds his lightsaber behind him because of all the intense force powers he is using. Having the blade infront of him might disrupt some of the force using supposedly and it lets you see the lightsaber. Imagine having that shiny red beam of death infront of you while channeling a lightning attack haha.

Mumbo jumbo. It's just to make it him look cool, there's nothing else to it, like others have said.

tk102
08-25-2008, 04:44 PM
What's wrong with looking cool? I do it all the time. :cool:

Da_Man_2423
08-25-2008, 05:04 PM
What's wrong with looking cool? I do it all the time. :cool:

Perhaps LucasArts should model you as a downloadable character to replace Starkiller in the game then. :lol:

GeneralPloKoon
08-25-2008, 05:54 PM
I like how he holds it makes him seem more unique!

Ratmjedi
08-27-2008, 11:14 PM
As long as he's able to kick some major a$$ does it really matter how he holds it? Each character has there unique features and it's being shown in the game so I think it's cool.

Shien was a form of Jedi lightsaber combat. Followers of this form practiced an unorthodox method of holding the lightsaber to perform long, sweeping strikes to take down several enemies at a time.



I think for being a secret apprentice who was gonna encounter alot of enemies on his missions it's the most effecient style so it makes sense.

:lsduel: :duel:

Da_Man_2423
08-27-2008, 11:39 PM
As long as he's able to kick some major a$$ does it really matter how he holds it?

Not really, since it's purely aesthetic anyway.

LordOfTheFish
08-28-2008, 10:14 AM
As long as he's able to kick some major a$$ does it really matter how he holds it? Each character has there unique features and it's being shown in the game so I think it's cool.



I think for being a secret apprentice who was gonna encounter alot of enemies on his missions it's the most effecient style so it makes sense.

:lsduel: :duel:

Agreed. What is the big deal with the reverse grip? It's not the end of the world :lol:

PoiuyWired
09-02-2008, 01:35 PM
Yeah, it's new, it's cool, it's different, it's Vader's Secret Aprentice...:lol:

... Anakin's first padawan holds it that way also...

KyoteOne
09-03-2008, 11:18 PM
Different Jedi and Sith have their preferences for how they hold their sabers.
I thinks it's because he is a speedy attacker and backwards blades seem to be associated with speed and/or ninja style characters.
And I think they felt it was just more sinister looking

Drunkside
09-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that the Apprentice holds his lightsaber backwards? I really wish he would hold it normally because it looks better that way.

I dont really care becouse its a game, but i tell you, if someone actually wielded a weapon that way and just stand casually he would get grinded to bits by the first guy he meets with any combat skill... That kind of a stance is a suicide! And even though i always dual wield when its possible, the lack of that doesnt bother me at all, becouse here i play Starkiller, not the most powerful being in the universe, ME...

LordOfTheFish
09-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Well in an interview with Hayden during E3. They stated he holds his lightsaber behind him because of all the intense force powers he is using. Having the blade infront of him might disrupt some of the force using supposedly and it lets you see the lightsaber. Imagine having that shiny red beam of death infront of you while channeling a lightning attack haha.

Really though, it's a game...it doesn't really have to make sense.

Astor
09-04-2008, 03:03 PM
Well in an interview with Hayden during E3. They stated he holds his lightsaber behind him because of all the intense force powers he is using. Having the blade infront of him might disrupt some of the force using supposedly and it lets you see the lightsaber. Imagine having that shiny red beam of death infront of you while channeling a lightning attack haha.

That's the most ludicrous thing i've heard. It's simple because it looks cool, and people kept moaning that they couldn't see the lightsaber.

LordOfTheFish
09-04-2008, 03:11 PM
It's no more then an attraction to raise sale counts.

Astor
09-04-2008, 03:14 PM
It's no more then an attraction to raise sale counts.

Which I can't see it doing. I'm far more interested in Unleashing the Force than I am about how he holds his lightsaber.

LordOfTheFish
09-04-2008, 03:19 PM
Point proven.

Dominicomucci
09-22-2008, 09:52 PM
I love the way he holds the sabre, its cool. But its very impractical in real combat.

In fact i think even in game you can see this, he is so slow to get his guard up when you block (tell me its not my reactions) youhave to be ready before hte enemies swing for starkiller to get his guard up!!!

Other than that it does look very japanese cool though.

On the point of styles i loved Count Dokus style, swashbuckling fencer. I think that is one of the coolest styles in film because the guy is professionally trained in it :D (and yes i know a lot of it is a stunt guy, but for an old dude that guy can still look smart)

Cru3lty
09-24-2008, 08:55 PM
I think a lot of the inspiration for using the reverse grip might have come from a really cool japanese film about a blind masseur called Zatoichi who held his cane-katana like that. The reverse grip is used occasionally in japanese fencing but usually (like the Apprentice) mixed with the conventional grip. I agree that it does give him a bit more character.

Darca Lar
09-25-2008, 04:48 PM
It doesn't bother me, and the fact that he was powerful enough to beat Vader and the Emperor is reason enough to allow it.

Kalonus
09-25-2008, 05:38 PM
Doesn’t he use that style because he is often faced with multiple attackers and it allows him to have wide swings of his blade…I thought that was what the form was used for.

SW01
09-25-2008, 06:10 PM
Gimmick. Plain and simple. Just something to make him different from the other sabre-users in Star Wars.

It's been done before - think double-bladed Maul. Or quad-wielding Grievous.

Personally, I don't like it. Maybe it's because I prefer the dueling style. Perhaps it is appropriate for a Sith, as it has little defensive value and perhaps more offensive value.

Darca Lar
09-26-2008, 02:05 AM
I wouldn't consider Starkiller a Sith considering the story. Rather he used powers of the darkside. Besides, its not how good it is, its how well you use it.

PoiuyWired
09-26-2008, 08:07 PM
Gimmick. Plain and simple. Just something to make him different from the other sabre-users in Star Wars.

It's been done before - think double-bladed Maul. Or quad-wielding Grievous.

Personally, I don't like it. Maybe it's because I prefer the dueling style. Perhaps it is appropriate for a Sith, as it has little defensive value and perhaps more offensive value.

Unfortunately backhand stance is not unique anymore...

Plus, Maul's saber is not unique, just a dim copy of the true master...

The Quad Wield is pretty special though, I wish there is a true 4 handed sith.

Xbx_Inthusiast
09-26-2008, 08:12 PM
Well Shien (Backhand) has been used by Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Starkiller, Jedi Snipers, Quinlan Vos, and Ronhar Kim. It's very useful in throwing your opponents off guard and striking from strange angles. Also, when fighting a double-bladed opponent, it's the best form to use because of it's wide defensive range.

(Also, I guess Maris Brood would have use a variant of Shien, due to her Tonfa's being backwards)

SW01
09-26-2008, 09:21 PM
I've just noted though that when Starkiller attacks, he twirls the saber to the 'normal' position to strike, then twirls it back when comig out of the attack stance.

Not sure if that reduces the utility of the form or not.

NEOxSNIPER
10-01-2008, 11:40 AM
It doesn't bother me, but I do wonder: What possible advantage is there to holding your lightsaber like that? I mean, yeah, you can hold your lightsaber any way you want and call it a new form, but how exactly is that helping?

that back handed stance is geared more toward defense, where as holding it normally is offensive.

M@RS
10-01-2008, 01:09 PM
^ It's a mix really, if you're good at it, like I assume Galen is... The form is called Shien... Link... (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shien)

csneo23
10-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Every character in the star wars universe has their own lightsaber stance and I think it is important that they do. Some are more noticeable then others. Revan, Starkiller, Darth Vader, Malak, Obi- wan, Palpatine, yoda, Darth Maul, and Dooku. All of them have very different styles and I think it is important that they do. Personally I love the fact that Starkiller's stance is so different and of his own.

Lord Foley
10-05-2008, 10:48 PM
Aesthetic choice or not, I think his stance is awesome.

Darth Eclipse
10-06-2008, 08:20 AM
I love Shien. I don't see why so many people have problems with it. It's rediculous!

LukeDavis93
10-13-2008, 11:45 PM
but I do not understand why this bothers people.
because its differrent

GwannaSauna
10-14-2008, 01:53 AM
Maybe he just had a wrist surgery, hmm?

Nah, but that is pretty damn annoying. Although when you're attacked by eight stormtroopers and holding down the B button ready to unleash a wave of destruction, I don't think you're gonna care the way he holds his lightsabre

Endorenna
10-14-2008, 02:49 AM
Somewhere I heard that the backwards style helps weaker fighters (aka women) have greater leverage during clenches. Don't know if that's true in the real world or not, but I certainly know it's true at my house. :)

And, of course, it looks cool. :xp:

Negative Sun
10-14-2008, 05:37 PM
that back handed stance is geared more toward defense, where as holding it normally is offensive.
I thought that as well, which is quite ironic since he's supposed to be a baddie to begin with, you'd think his style would be more leaning towards the aggressive...

LukeDavis93
10-14-2008, 06:36 PM
Somewhere I heard that the backwards style helps weaker fighters (aka women) have greater leverage during clenches. :xp:

come to think of it women do use that style pretty often

Negative Sun
10-15-2008, 03:57 PM
come to think of it women do use that style pretty often
Yeah there's like 10 women in my street using katanas and broadswords in that way! :xp:

Endorenna
10-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Hey, on my street there are two. ;) Well, except they're fake swords...

Pwnzor326
10-15-2008, 11:55 PM
I heard in an interview that they did it so you could see the lightsaber better. I also noticed that Ashoka from the Clone Wars has that same stance.

LordOfTheFish
10-16-2008, 04:48 PM
Why would you want to see the lightsaber if the game is about the "force"..?

Henz
10-16-2008, 05:37 PM
^ Because from the back of the character it's more visually interesting to see the lightsaber...?

LordOfTheFish
10-17-2008, 01:56 PM
Could be... Though I seem to agree with the person who said it was to allow Galen to more easily use the force.