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TheExile
07-09-2008, 04:05 AM
Hi all,

I've been thinking about Revan and Kreia and The Exile...
And I came up with some questions....
Why Revan asked Exile to activate the Mass Shadow Generator?
Well, he was taking care of Mandalore The Ultimate's flag ship, ... But Revan could order himself the activation of the Generator after he defeated Mandalore, cauze the Generator was activated after Mandalore's defeat anyway...
So why? What if Revan knew what is going to happen to Exile if he is responsible for those deaths and if he takes all those deaths into him? What if he knew that eventually, Exile would end up very powerful after cutting herself from the Force? This is the best answer I can give: Revan knew what would happen to the Exile...
Maybe Revan wanted Exile as an ally against the True Sith, so he did that to exile...
BUT!!! Exile would never became stronger after her exile and after her cut with the Force without the training of Kreia!
So maybe it wasn't Kreia's intention to train the Exile afterall...
Maybe it was Revan's wish...
But then Kreia fell, so training Exile became her first wish, so she can have revenge on Sion and Nihilus...

What is your opinion? Please discuss.

linxx_
07-09-2008, 04:47 AM
Hmm well thats interesting... Revan being the gifted Jedi he was, it was possible he knew that the exile was going to loose her ties to the Force, so that she could become more powerful an ally against the True Sith... But then again, not even the Jedi Masters knew how the exile established connections through the Force, so its a good question.

Kreia wanted revenge on the Force, not only on the Jedi and the Sith, who had betrayed her. She wanted the "death" of the Force, by means of proving that if one becomes untangled with the Force, it creates wounds in it, and ultimately will cause its own "death".When she heard of the exile she concluded that it was possible to live without the Force, making it "unnecessary". I guess ultimately Kreia wanted all Force sensitives to wield the Force without choosing the light or dark side.

If you ask me... Revan did not "fall". He purposedly gave in so that he could gain more powers in both the light and dark side so he could defeat the "true" Sith, which he began feeling in the first KotOR. So yeah, hes cryptic that way, being both a hero and an antagonist (the dark side is still "dark" no matter how you're trying to use it), making it even more possible that he gave the order to activate the Mass Shadow Generator, knowing of the exile's ability to make connections through the Force.

TheExile
07-09-2008, 05:19 AM
I agree, Revan NEVER FELL!!!!!
And, Kreia wanted the death of Force because she fell, because she was betrayed thru the Force...
That's the madness of the DS...

MacTavish
07-09-2008, 11:11 AM
And, Kreia wanted the death of Force because she fell, because she was betrayed thru the Force...
Well, the exile got "betrayed" much worse than Kreia, I think. Not only was he exiled, but he was cut off from the force . Kreia was just "stripped of her power", but could still feel the force. Maybe that is why she became so hateful of it.

TheExile
07-09-2008, 11:12 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

MacTavish
07-09-2008, 11:13 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...
???

Darca Lar
07-09-2008, 11:24 AM
It could be a possibility, though I think its a little overzealous. Though Revan is strong in the Force, I don't think he's THAT strong, though it's surely debatable.

TheExile
07-09-2008, 01:23 PM
Revan didn't needed to be very powerful in the Force too know all those things...
Kreia can read in the future, ya know...
Revan was a genius... I think that in all KotORs NOBODY talked about Revans power at the level they truly are...
And like 4/10 of his power is gave by his genius...
That's MO.
Just think out of the box...

Darth Hord
07-09-2008, 01:47 PM
It is a good theory and it wouldn't surprise me if Revan knew the affects the MSG could have on the Exile. But I doubt he planned for her to fight the true sith with him. Kreia wanted to train her to get revenge on Sion and Nihilus (especially since she is the only one immune to his drain) but another theory that has been discussed elsewhere is, did Kreia truly fight her hardest against the Exile on Malachor.

But the idea that Revan did not turn to the dark side is absolutely ridiculous and speculation at best especially since it has been years since Kreia even saw him which was at the very latest was during the mandalorian wars, (though i would say it was right before he left the order) she would have no idea how much he changed. No one who is not a real sith or a follower of the darkside would say the things he said in his holocron,heck if he did not really fall to the darkside there would be no point to make a sith holocron. Revan's actions in the war against the mandalorians shows that he fell to the darkside, no jedi in other wars (ex. clone wars) would do what he did. When you get right down to it in end, after the Mandalorian Wars Revan was like a warlord trying to conquer and keep his territory safe from rival warlords which in this case was the "true sith."

Darca Lar
07-09-2008, 02:05 PM
I do, but I also think logically and then deduce the two. When one has visions, they came in bits and did not explain much. Emperor Palpatine forsaw a lot of things, as he says. His plan to rule came to fruition, but he didnt forsee his end...either time. What I'm saying is there would only be so much that Revan could have planned. Plans don't always pan out as well. Sometimes in avoiding a vision it actually comes true, just look at Anakin when he tried to save Padme. She died anyway.

If Revan forsaw the Exile's rise, or something greater, he would have been taking a huge risk by acting as such. I believe I've read however that one could force a vision through deep meditations, but drawing upon that much of the Force for an extended period is taxing. Revan wouldn't act so, especially during a war to meditate a vision after he acted against the council to fight in the war. He chose to do rather than meditate like the council.

If he acted as he did not based on what he saw of the Exile, but of something greater that the Exile happened to be apart of then it would make a little more sense to me. But I'm still not convinced Revan was aware.

As for Kreia, she was far more of a force adept than Revan, and she forsaw many things BECAUSE all she did was meditate. Her age and experience made her so. Revan was much younger than Kreia, even if he was strong in the force. He didn't have the experience. It's possible that regardless of his strength in the force that while on Malachor the strong surges of power coursing through the planet gave Revan a vision or something, but not enough for him to put others at risk, at the time he was still a jedi.

did Kreia truly fight her hardest against the Exile on Malachor.

I believe she did otherwise what would be the point of what I could only think of as a test. She was the teacher and if she didn't test the Exile at full capacity in this last battle, what would the Exile had won? Nothing but a false victory, and Kreia believed herself to be the master til she died. It wouldn't be something Kreia would do to go easier on her student being who she was.

TheExile
07-09-2008, 02:33 PM
You think of Revan superficial...
He's not an ordinary Force Sensitive with great connection to the Force, as Anakin, Luke etc.
Think of ALL the masters Revan had. Think of the instincts he possessed. Think of hes genius... THINK OUT OF THE BOX...
"Revan was power. It was like starring at the heart of the Force".
"Did he really fell, or was he always true to himself". " Charismatic and powerful, it was inevitable many of the Order would flock to Revan's seemingly noble cause."
"Only Revan was worthy of our respect. We swept throughout the Outer Rim without opposition—until Revan assumed command of the Republic forces. Only then did the battle turn."
"The darkness and the light wage a constant war within you. The balance is tipped one way now, but it can easily be tipped back. Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things Revan... "
"His strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity of his attacks, the tenacity of his defenses and the subtlety of his plans."
"He was a very powerful man. Very charismatic."
"Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed."
"Between that and your facility with languages, I'm lucky you're here."
"Why? The manuscripts contain the wisdom of the ancient Sith. I have learned much about the ways of the dark side from them."
"His passion for such tools, for things dead to the Force, defies me."

This are some good words I can recall in K1/TSL...
If I could memorize this much, imagine the number of them.

P.S. The majority are from TSL, and to make those guyz speak bout Revan, you have to gain big influence with them... But you can find them... All of them...

Astor
07-09-2008, 02:44 PM
You think of Revan superficial...
He's not an ordinary Force Sensitive with great connection to the Force, as Anakin, Luke etc.
Think of ALL the masters Revan had. Think of the instincts he possessed. Think of hes genius... THINK OUT OF THE BOX...

A load of quotes...

This are some good words I can recall in K1/TSL...
If I could memorize this much, imagine the number of them.

P.S. The majority are from TSL, and to make those guyz speak bout Revan, you have to gain big influence with them... But you can find them... All of them...

You have to remember that these are opinions expressed by people in the game, not 100% fact, so you shouldn't accept them as such.

I still don't, and probably never will understand this obsession people have with proving that Revan is 'uber'.

He was just a very gifted Force User, with a slightly better grasp of military tactics than others, not some super Jedi/Sith that people make him out or believe him to be.

And do you not think that his supposed 'influence' was because he could project his will into people's mind through the Force?

Anyway, this is probably going to be all i'll say on the matter, as it's clear you've already decided that Revan is 'awesome', no matter what arguments people bring up.

Darth Hord
07-09-2008, 02:52 PM
I believe she did otherwise what would be the point of what I could only think of as a test. She was the teacher and if she didn't test the Exile at full capacity in this last battle, what would the Exile had won? Nothing but a false victory, and Kreia believed herself to be the master til she died. It wouldn't be something Kreia would do to go easier on her student being who she was.

As far as I can tell Kreia was in a lose-lose situation. If she kills the exile then her views are wrong and there is no way she can "kill the force," or if she didn't try her hardest than the exile would have a false victory and may not be ready to fight the true sith. Plus Kreia knows the exile's skills and abilities so she must have some idea that her "force drain" technique would be useless. Then even before you fight Kreia, Sion makes an interesting comment on Malachor: She thinks you should be spared,but only so you might suffer. You will break. And when you do,you will die.

If she spares the exile (who came to malachor to fight traya) then Kreia must know she would probably die. It is a theory that probably isn't a 100% correct but given Traya's cryptic views and teachings I don't think it is a reach to say Kreia knew that by killing the exile than she couldn't "kill the force"

edit: btw The Exile could you elaborate on who your last post was addressing?

TheExile
07-09-2008, 03:08 PM
Anyway, this is probably going to be all i'll say on the matter, as it's clear you've already decided that Revan is 'awesome', no matter what arguments people bring up.

Nope...
It may seem that way... Let me guess: you like mo....
Know som'thing, nvm...
In other forums- in this forum too- I REJECTED Revan as "awesome"...
Wanna post links to forums, threads and posts where I done so?
Revan wasn't that powerful, Revan was simply smart and skilled...
Kreia says that the greatest of the Jedi never abandoned their skills, their connection with the "ground reality"...
Revan is skilled and I don't speak of saber of Force skill... Revan is also smart...
That's why I made those quotes...
But we got enough off-topic...
There are enough threads of the how-powerful-was-Revan type...

TKA-001
07-09-2008, 11:10 PM
On the primary topic: I don't think Revan intentionally had the Exile placed there at Malachor in order to turn him into a wound in the Force. HK-47 tells the player that many of the Republic military leaders sent to the Battle of Malachor V were the ones whose loyalty to Revan was in doubt. The secondary purpose of creating the wound at Malachor was to kill virtually everyone who would not willingly follow Revan in whatever crazy plan she dreamed up when she turned to the dark side. I don't think Revan was at any point in her life omniscient, so I think it's very possible that she either placed the Exile there because she wanted him dead like other Jedi, or simply put him there so there would be one more Jedi there. Either way, I find the proposal that Revan knew of the Exile's unusual affinity for Force bonds to be merely another product of numerous peoples' exaggeration of how Revan is supposedly an infinitely incredible mastermind.

On the secondary topic: If I ever become a scientist, the first thing I'll do is invent a cure for the Player Character Bias Syndrome and dump it into all of America's major drinking water supplies.

I agree, Revan NEVER FELL!!!!!
One of the very first rules followed by someone with Player Character Bias Syndome is reflected in the above statement: I (Revan) am flawless and invincible, and I (Revan) cannot make mistakes or fall to the dark side. In reality (so to speak), Revan did fall to the dark side, and the "stay truth to him/herself" idea is a nonsensical lie generated by PCB Syndrome. You can't just "not fall" to the dark side. It doesn't freaking work that way. While it is very likely that Revan chose to fall to the dark side, saying that she/he never fell at all is simply to delude oneself. :worship: :toilet1:

Revan didn't needed to be very powerful in the Force too know all those things...
Kreia can read in the future, ya know...
Revan was a genius... I think that in all KotORs NOBODY talked about Revans power at the level they truly are...
And like 4/10 of his power is gave by his genius...
That's MO.
Just think out of the box...
I find it at least mildly repulsive that you tell the rest of us to "think outside the box" when the box that you're thinking inside of is welded shut with a blowtorch. See the above comment about omniscience.

You think of Revan superficial...
He's not an ordinary Force Sensitive with great connection to the Force, as Anakin, Luke etc.
Of course. Revan's not just an ordinary person who can shoot freaking lightning out of his hands... He's CHUCK NORRIS!!!!!!
http://boortz.com/images/funny/fark_chuck_norris_dog.jpg

Think of ALL the masters Revan had. Think of the instincts he possessed. Think of hes genius... THINK OUT OF THE BOX...
"Revan was power. It was like starring at the heart of the Force".
"Did he really fell, or was he always true to himself". " Charismatic and powerful, it was inevitable many of the Order would flock to Revan's seemingly noble cause."
"Only Revan was worthy of our respect. We swept throughout the Outer Rim without opposition—until Revan assumed command of the Republic forces. Only then did the battle turn."
"The darkness and the light wage a constant war within you. The balance is tipped one way now, but it can easily be tipped back. Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things Revan... "
"His strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity of his attacks, the tenacity of his defenses and the subtlety of his plans."
"He was a very powerful man. Very charismatic."
"Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed."
"Between that and your facility with languages, I'm lucky you're here."
"Why? The manuscripts contain the wisdom of the ancient Sith. I have learned much about the ways of the dark side from them."
"His passion for such tools, for things dead to the Force, defies me."

This are some good words I can recall in K1/TSL...
If I could memorize this much, imagine the number of them.
Every single one of those quotes are from biased sources which refrain from giving any actual information except how much they like to kiss Revan's arse (Canderous, Carth, and Darth Traya), people who weren't even there when Revan did any of the stuff he did (Yuthura), and people whose quotes were far to vague to sift any information out of (Dorak).

TheExile
07-10-2008, 03:25 AM
You're so friggin right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK I give up!!!!
Someone close the thread!!!!
BTW!!!! Chuck Norris pwns Revans @$$!!!
No way to compare them!!!!
"I'll be back!"

~Thread Closed~

Astor
07-10-2008, 04:26 AM
Revan did fall to the dark side, and the "stay truth to him/herself" idea is a nonsensical lie generated by PCB Syndrome.

And don't forget that Obsidian also reinforced that 'idea' to ingratiate themselves further with da fanboiz :lol:.

TheExile
07-10-2008, 07:01 AM
~ Thread CLOSED~ >=(...
But good point :lol:

Darca Lar
07-11-2008, 12:11 AM
What? Seriously? I figured there'd be more, but to put it simply TKA-001 pretty much said everything I was gonna...and Chuck Norris at his age is still rockin'.

Rev7
07-11-2008, 01:25 AM
~ Thread CLOSED~ >=(...
But good point :lol:
Only mods can close threads. ;)

TheExile
07-11-2008, 06:09 AM
I know, that's why I said "thread closed" cauze I wanna signal the staff I want my thread close...

mattig89ch
09-05-2008, 03:11 PM
I must say that reven never seemed like the super bad guy. he just seemed like he was doing what he had to.

Yar-El
09-09-2008, 08:49 PM
Hi all,

I've been thinking about Revan and Kreia and The Exile...
And I came up with some questions....
Why Revan asked Exile to activate the Mass Shadow Generator?
Well, he was taking care of Mandalore The Ultimate's flag ship, ... But Revan could order himself the activation of the Generator after he defeated Mandalore, cauze the Generator was activated after Mandalore's defeat anyway...
So why? What if Revan knew what is going to happen to Exile if he is responsible for those deaths and if he takes all those deaths into him? What if he knew that eventually, Exile would end up very powerful after cutting herself from the Force? This is the best answer I can give: Revan knew what would happen to the Exile...
Maybe Revan wanted Exile as an ally against the True Sith, so he did that to exile...
BUT!!! Exile would never became stronger after her exile and after her cut with the Force without the training of Kreia!
So maybe it wasn't Kreia's intention to train the Exile afterall...
Maybe it was Revan's wish...
But then Kreia fell, so training Exile became her first wish, so she can have revenge on Sion and Nihilus...

What is your opinion? Please discuss.

Possible spoiler from what I have read. Be warned!
SUMMARY --- The Jedi Exile developed the ability to disconnect herself from the force, but Revan, herself, and the council had no idea. Similar to how Bastila developed Battle Meditation. Revan was evolving into a Sith Lord at the time, and he was only using her to do his dirty work. She was used by Revan. There is some tension between the two. Knights 3 may cover the layers of their relationship. The Jedi Exile brought herself in front of the council for punishment. She answered for the crimes of herself, Revan, and the others who went to war. The Jedi Exile didn't know she had the ability to dissconnect from the Force, so she blamed the Jedi Council for her handicap. Upon learning about Revan's fall, the Jedi Exile was filled with confussion, sense of betrayal, and anger. She ends up surpressing the ways of the Jedi, for she feels the frustration of being betrayed. After learning the whereabouts of Revan through Kriea, also her reestablishment with the Force, she followed him to the Outer Rim for a confrontation.

I think there may be a love story between Revan and Jedi Exile. I won't be surprised to learn about the Jedi Exile's fall to the darkside in Knights 3.

Kriea only wanted revenge for the betrayal of Sion, Nihilus, and the Force. Why the Force? She didn't like being seduced and controlled by it. She wanted to be free.

My two cents.