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Phantom Knight
07-13-2008, 05:09 AM
I was just walking around the streets of Melbourne near Flinders St. Station with a group of friends. When all of a sudden, we caught sight of protesters wearing Guy Fawks masks used in the movie V for Vendetta.

I remember one of the protesters showing me the big sign labeled "Scientology is Evil" infront of me. Naturally I nodded in agreement to his cause. I was approached by another of the protesters, handing me a brochur of what Scientology is and its outlined negative views: murder, man-slaughter, con artists, espionage, etc...

Given that I had limited knowledge on Scientology, aswell as the anti-religeous type, its given me a new and better understanding of Scientology and its dangers having fully read the brochur.

Astor
07-13-2008, 06:26 AM
They would be 'Anonymous', and to quote them, they are legion. They were spawned by some website called 4chan, I think? And they've held such protests in the past.

Anonymous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_%28group%29)

As to the actual protests, I kind of agree with it - especially considering the 'fair game' policy that Scientology has employed in the past to 'remove' so called 'threats' to their 'religion'. Which they have claimed to have removed from use. I don't think that they are religion, just an infectious cult, to be honest.

Of course, no offence is intended to any scientologists here, but when they harass people in the way they have in the past, such as framing people for terrorist actions:

Operation Freakout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout)

So yes, it is a very dangerous cult. I am technically right in my claim of it being nothing more than a cult, because the UK government does not officially recognise it as an official Religion.

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 07:49 AM
You would be seeing Anons from 4chan protesting. Or, as they are sometimes called, the cancer that is killing 4chan.

The masks may seem (and kind of are) a silly idea, but they are used to protect the faces of the wearer. Scientology is well known for documenting dissenters and finding ways to legally attack them.

The cult is well known for legal attacks on dissenters and has sued a number of both worldly and internet related organizations (IE, Youtube) for speaking "badly" about the religion.

Given that I had limited knowledge on Scientology, aswell as the anti-religeous type, its given me a new and better understanding of Scientology and its dangers having fully read the brochur.
Here:

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Xenu the alien ruler Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).

After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xenu is still alive today.

That sound like a "cult that attempts to put science into religious terms"? It is a religion that was created by L. Ron Hubbard through a science fiction novel.

He made it so that he could make money and get a tax cut and live a comfortable life. The CoS has a history of dealing forcefully, which can include blackmail and even violence, with critics and perceived enemies (whom the organization calls "suppressive persons"). CoS has a long history of suing any dissenters, and have tried a number of times to block negative information about Scientology from the internet. They do not believe in mental health medications, and have been responsible for the deaths of many of their members. In many situations, in order to gain spiritual 'rank' within Scientology you must pay ungodly large amounts of money, so its mostly run by a bunch of rich people with more than enough money to stretch the law.

What is this cult known for?

Operation Snow White
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

"Some time during the 1970s, the Church of Scientology decided that they'd had enough. Their religion about magic space aliens in a volcano wasn't getting the same respect as the religion about the magic bearded man whose dad made us all out of mud 6,000 years ago. Instead of converting to a slightly less silly religion, they did what any of us would have done and decided to destroy every single document that made their religion look bad, presumably including a trip into the future to destroy every copy of Battlefield Earth.

How did that work out?

Disturbingly well, at least for a little while. Apparently, the Church of Scientology managed to perform the largest infiltration of the United States government in history. Ever. With all the people who have wanted to get their dirty little hands on incriminating records, the United States of America was finally duped by the people who came up with Dianetics. So those billions of dollars we put into national security annually are clearly well spent.

Anyway, somewhere around 5,000 of Scientology's crack commandos wiretapped and burglarized various agencies. They stole hundreds of documents, mainly from the IRS. No critic was spared, and in the end, 136 organizations, agencies and foreign embassies were infiltrated.

When all of this hit the fan, the Church naturally denied it. Then they kidnapped one of the operatives arrested for stealing documents and prevented him from testifying. These days, the Church of Scientology generally refuses to talk about Operation Snow White, except to say that they "purged" those who were involved. They won't say what the guilty parties were involved in, and those who were purged still hold high ranking offices in the Church."

-Cracked

Arcesious
07-13-2008, 08:04 AM
Wow. It's worse than I first thought.

Astor
07-13-2008, 08:53 AM
When all of this hit the fan, the Church naturally denied it. Then they kidnapped one of the operatives arrested for stealing documents and prevented him from testifying. These days, the Church of Scientology generally refuses to talk about Operation Snow White, except to say that they "purged" those who were involved. They won't say what the guilty parties were involved in, and those who were purged still hold high ranking offices in the Church."

They claim that they dissolved the Guardian's office, but given their track record, and aptitude for lying and misinformation, I would take any claims on their part with a truck load of salt.

Phantom Knight
07-13-2008, 09:08 AM
The masks may seem (and kind of are) a silly idea, but they are used to protect the faces of the wearer.

I connected the theme of the masks as a form of "freeing one's self from the evil". That was the basic plot idea for V for Vendetta, so I thought it was quite an effective method of protesting: Scientology's grasp on anyone was the evil they were trying to free anyone from.

It is a religion that was created by L. Ron Hubbard through a science fiction novel.

tsk. He was probably thinking of a "get-rich-quick" scandal the day he invented scientology - "You can't make millions of dollars writing sci-fi novels, forming your own religeon can!"

^ Though I hear this is a common quote briefing how scientology was first made.

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 09:35 AM
I connected the theme of the masks as a form of "freeing one's self from the evil". That was the basic plot idea for V for Vendetta, so I thought it was quite an effective method of protesting: Scientology's grasp on anyone was the evil they were trying to free anyone from.
Well, you would be partly right.

Anons who go out and do stuff like this have worn V masks for quite some time now. A particularly special "get" post on /b/ got it into popularity, pushed forward by the "Epic Fail Guy" meme (a stick figure who wears a V mask).

It is worn partly due to "tradition" (if it can be called that). Another part is the fact that every one, regardless of a V mask or not, had to wear something because Scientology protesters are often put on film or taken picture of by the church for later legal use.

The last part being the whole Vendetta movie theme. But, for the most part, V masks have been worn by attention seeking Anons for years.

tsk. He was probably thinking of a "get-rich-quick" scandal the day he invented scientology - "You can't make millions of dollars writing sci-fi novels, forming your own religeon can!"

^ Though I hear this is a common quote briefing how scientology was first made.
Hubbard was failing as a writer and he was going broke. So, as you said, it was a "get-rich-quick" plan that worked.

He wanted to see if he could not only create his own religion out of thin air, but also make a profit off of it. Religion (not only Scientology) has been an easy money maker for as long as money and religion have co-existed. It is no surprise that he not only got followers, but quite a bit of money as well.

"Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. The outermost limit of endeavour is creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I am engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turned the thing up so it's up to me to survive in a big way . . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed."
-L. Ron Hubbard

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."
-L. Ron Hubbard

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."
-L. Ron Hubbard

And, if you'd like a laugh as well as facts, here is a Cracked article on some of his more impressive lies (other than Scientology)

On His Native American Upbringing ...
On His Study of Nuclear Physics ...
On L. Ron Hubbard, War Hero ...
On Living The Drug-Free Lifestyle ...
And On Inventing the Concept of a Moral Code ...

http://www.cracked.com/article_16337_l-ron-hubbards-5-most-impressive-lies-besides-scientology.html

Nedak
07-13-2008, 02:56 PM
Some good links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSy-y-ylPZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itujmcsinpw

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 04:55 PM
i hope the earth opens up and swallows everyone involved in this (both sides) and they all die the fiery, painful deaths they so richly deserve.

Nedak
07-13-2008, 04:59 PM
(both sides)

Huh?

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 05:16 PM
Huh?the protesters and scientologists.

Nedak
07-13-2008, 05:24 PM
the protesters and scientologists.

I don't see what the protesters are doing wrong.

I guess they should die along with everybody who protests against the War in Iraq.

Astor
07-13-2008, 05:33 PM
The protesters in this case tend to be/act like, eh, a donkeys rear exit:D

True, but in their case i'd say they're the lesser of the two evils being discussed. :lol:

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
I don't see what the protesters are doing wrong.because they're ****ing idiots and if you can't see that you don't know anything about this.

Burnseyy
07-13-2008, 06:08 PM
i've seen the same thing, near me.
i don't agree with scientology, and i think its a load of bull
but, everyones entitled to believe what they want.

can't say my 'official' religion is much better.

i mean, c'mon, catholics tried to sue harry potter. >_>

Astor
07-13-2008, 06:17 PM
i've seen the same thing, near me.
i don't agree with scientology, and i think its a load of bull
but, everyones entitled to believe what they want.

can't say my 'official' religion is much better.

i mean, c'mon, catholics tried to sue harry potter. >_>

But at least Catholicism is a bit more credible than some intergalactic emperor transporting millions of people in intergalactic airplanes, gathering them around a volcano and blowing them up, leaving their souls to float around the world and leech off of the living.

I don't believe in any religion, but i'd take God and Jesus over Xenu any day.

mur'phon
07-13-2008, 06:19 PM
Apparently this forum enjoyed my post so much that it munched it. Anyway, while scientology is a load of bull, I have to give credit to the founder, too bad the regular beggar can't get rich that way.

AK: Well, considering that both of them have the same amount of evidence going for them, I'd demand the same thing if I where to convert. Namley, evidence, cash or being told by Ms right.

Nedak
07-13-2008, 06:24 PM
because they're ****ing idiots and if you can't see that you don't know anything about this.

Oh, so you think people shouldn't stand-up against a horrible cult?

I know plenty about "this".

Maybe if you clicked on some of my links you would know what I'm talking about.

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 06:28 PM
Oh, so you think people shouldn't stand-up against a horrible cult?

I know plenty about "this".

Maybe if you clicked on some of my links you would know what I'm talking about.this post is basically saying "HEY I KNOW ALL ABOUT POTATOES" when i said you didn't know anything about apples.

Astor
07-13-2008, 06:30 PM
or being told by Ms right.

tsk tsk. You've got to stop listening to those female recruiters, murph. You'll get in all kinds of trouble. Sure, it's nice an innocent at first, but then they thrust a copy of operating thetan in your hands and strap you to an e-meter... :lol:

Nedak
07-13-2008, 06:42 PM
this post is basically saying "HEY I KNOW ALL ABOUT POTATOES" when i said you didn't know anything about apples.

You said that the protesters are wrong because they are "****ing idiots", and that if I didn't see that then I don't know what I'm talking about.

I responded, and my post CLEARLY asked if they were "****ing idiots" because they stand-up against a horrible cult?

I also made it clear that I do in-fact know what I'm talking about on the basis of Scientology, and the topic at-hand...


May I recommend some Ritalin?

mur'phon
07-13-2008, 06:46 PM
Han: If I'm a puppy butchering paedophile fighting against modern slavery, am I a good person?

AK: The alternative fate seems much worse:D

Nedak
07-13-2008, 06:51 PM
Han: If I'm a puppy butchering paedophile fighting against modern slavery, am I a good person?


Are you suggesting that protesters are bad/evil people now? lol

Secondly I never suggested that all protesters were good people...

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 06:52 PM
Oh, so you think people shouldn't stand-up against a horrible cult?

I know plenty about "this".

Maybe if you clicked on some of my links you would know what I'm talking about.
This post is basically saying "HEY I KNOW ALL ABOUT POTATOES" when i said you didn't know anything about apples.
I think Jmac has summarized it up pretty well.
The protesters are /b/ards looking for attention. These protests are organized on 4chan and are carried out in V masks and fake Afros.

We aren't smacking you for supporting protesters. We are smacking you for supporting the cancer that is killing 4chan.

For more, the "Boston Fail Party"
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Old_/b/_Day (Mature Language)

Now you know. And now we can go back to the topic at hand.

mur'phon
07-13-2008, 06:54 PM
No, only that donkey behinds protesting against scientology (evil donkey behinds), are still donkey behinds.

Nedak
07-13-2008, 07:01 PM
I think Jmac has summarized it up pretty well.
The protesters are /b/ards looking for attention. These protests are organized on 4chan and are carried out in V masks and fake Afros.

We aren't smacking you for supporting protesters. We are smacking you for supporting the cancer that is killing 4chan.

I wasn't really talking about any of that. I was talking about just normal Scientology protesters.

I apologize to you Jmac. I thought you were responding to something else...

Web Rider
07-13-2008, 09:02 PM
We are smacking you for supporting the cancer that is killing 4chan.

And why, pray tell, should anyone give a darn about 4Chan? 4chan is, without question, one of the most prominent piles of poop on the internet. Filled with some of the most mindless garbage that only a horde of pre-teen internet junkies and 42-year-olds who still live in their mother's basements could possibly assemble.

Quite frankly, the only reason Anon is killing 4Chan is because they're mostly right-minded people attempting to make a political statement against an organization that is oppressive, violent and an obvious cult/scam. In short, 4chan is so filled with dookie that anything that's not the excrement of the internet is poison in it's veins.

So lets get things straight, the net will be healthier, happier, and all around better, without 4chan.

You aren't upset with what Anon is doing because you want to "save 4chan", and if you are, then I question your motivation for wanting to save a website that is, without a doubt, only slightly less poisonous to the internet than Scientology is to real life.


On the subject of the protestors, I'm always glad to see somebody protesting against Scientology, regardless of method, so long as it is not violent. Their tactics are logical and a little humurous, the V masks prevent Scientologists from knowing their identities and attacking them legally/physically, and add some humor to the protest as well. Enough, IMO, so that cops don't assume they're out to riot and loot, as they likly would given they wore pointy white hoods or black ski masks.

They have done something the rest of the world has generally been afraid to or unwilling. And have shown that movements on the internet are not limited to the virtual realm, nor are the people on the internet powerless to affect others should they put their minds to it. An act that shows a level of coordination that the internet is not familiar with.

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 09:22 PM
And why, pray tell, should anyone give a darn about 4Chan? 4chan is, without question, one of the most prominent piles of poop on the internet. Filled with some of the most mindless garbage that only a horde of pre-teen internet junkies and 42-year-olds who still live in their mother's basements could possibly assemble.

Quite frankly, the only reason Anon is killing 4Chan is because they're mostly right-minded people attempting to make a political statement against an organization that is oppressive, violent and an obvious cult/scam. In short, 4chan is so filled with dookie that anything that's not the excrement of the internet is poison in it's veins.

So lets get things straight, the net will be healthier, happier, and all around better, without 4chan.

You aren't upset with what Anon is doing because you want to "save 4chan", and if you are, then I question your motivation for wanting to save a website that is, without a doubt, only slightly less poisonous to the internet than Scientology is to real life.


On the subject of the protestors, I'm always glad to see somebody protesting against Scientology, regardless of method, so long as it is not violent. Their tactics are logical and a little humurous, the V masks prevent Scientologists from knowing their identities and attacking them legally/physically, and add some humor to the protest as well. Enough, IMO, so that cops don't assume they're out to riot and loot, as they likly would given they wore pointy white hoods or black ski masks.

They have done something the rest of the world has generally been afraid to or unwilling. And have shown that movements on the internet are not limited to the virtual realm, nor are the people on the internet powerless to affect others should they put their minds to it. An act that shows a level of coordination that the internet is not familiar with.this post makes me lol. i'm not even going to try explaining it to you.

Arcesious
07-13-2008, 09:34 PM
An act that shows a level of coordination that the internet is not familiar with.

One could argue that the intrawebz can pull together quite a bit of power at any given time when people put their minds to it.

Web Rider
07-13-2008, 09:48 PM
this post makes me lol. i'm not even going to try explaining it to you.

I don't really care what you think to be honest. I simply desired to express my opinion as everyone else has. Besides, I was replying to Avery, not you.

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-13-2008, 09:50 PM
I don't really care what you think to be honest.awesome possum thanks for letting me know.
I simply desired to express my opinion as everyone else has.oh. i thought you were harvesting grain.

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 10:09 PM
And why, pray tell, should anyone give a darn about 4Chan? 4chan is, without question, one of the most prominent piles of poop on the internet. Filled with some of the most mindless garbage that only a horde of pre-teen internet junkies and 42-year-olds who still live in their mother's basements could possibly assemble.
That would be your opinion. I happen to find most of its boards hilarious and worth a visit from time to time for a good laugh. I can find information on shows that I like, and talk among like minded individuals.

Not every part of 4chan is /b/ you know. The idiots that make the place out to be a garbage hole are the exact people we hate.

Quite frankly, the only reason Anon is killing 4Chan is because they're mostly right-minded people attempting to make a political statement against an organization that is oppressive, violent and an obvious cult/scam. In short, 4chan is so filled with dookie that anything that's not the excrement of the internet is poison in it's veins.
The Anons that are protesting are making fools of themselves by going out into public in the first place dressed in V masks and Afros. They make fools of themselves by having vulgar signs and generally making bad scenes.

For those that are actually out there to protest scientology, power to them. But a good many of them are /b/ members that want an excuse to dress up and get attention.

Also, take in mind that your Anon heroes have done a number of illegal things to the Church of Scientology. They crashed websites, overloaded bandwidth, and caused quite a bill of damage. You can love those "right-minded" Anons all you want. But please, do not make them out to be angels in a sea of p***.

So lets get things straight, the net will be healthier, happier, and all around better, without 4chan.
4chan is everything the internet is.

4chan has porn boards. Porn is all over the internet.
4chan has trolls. Trolls are on every single forum.
4chan has idiots. Idiots are everywhere.

4chan is just a bunch of boards that have easy access to every corner of the internet. Getting rid of 4chan will solve NOTHING, because 4chan is just a place for people to discuss and share what they have found EVERYWHERE.

Your logic states that if we got rid of Lucas forums, the internet would be a better place and Star Wars stuff would stop appearing. Lucas forums is a chat site. Whether it exists or not doesn't change the fact that there will be Star Wars stuff on the internet, and there will always be other forums.

You aren't upset with what Anon is doing because you want to "save 4chan", and if you are, then I question your motivation for wanting to save a website that is, without a doubt, only slightly less poisonous to the internet than Scientology is to real life.
Like I said above, 4chan is a chat site. A chat site for discussing and sharing everything the internet has to offer.

It does not create poison at all. At all. It only brings poison in from every corner of the internet into one place.

You get rid of 4chan, that poison just finds a new place to go. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of people that visit 4chan, I think you are better off having them be in 1 place.

On the subject of the protestors, I'm always glad to see somebody protesting against Scientology, regardless of method, so long as it is not violent. Their tactics are logical and a little humurous, the V masks prevent Scientologists from knowing their identities and attacking them legally/physically, and add some humor to the protest as well. Enough, IMO, so that cops don't assume they're out to riot and loot, as they likly would given they wore pointy white hoods or black ski masks.
So, 4chan is bad when they do their said "poison", but are a coordinated, honorable movement when they decide to organize and protest a religion?

I'm sorry, but in the first half of this thread you bashed 4chan. In the second half, you shook their hand.

Do you honestly believe that those protesters go home after protesting and avoid 4chan? No. Hahahahahaha, No. They go on the porn boards. They go onto /b/ to organize the next raid. They post pictures of themselves asking "Am I hot?" They share tentacle porn. They post pedo-bear and slow-poke.

They organize internet raids and crash Scientology websites, causing damage that actually costs money to repair.

They are the exact people you seem to hate so much, but this time wearing V masks. Just because they support a few of your beliefs on a cult doesn't exempt them from the fact that they are the same pre-teen internet junkies and 42-year-olds you generalized.

They have done something the rest of the world has generally been afraid to or unwilling. And have shown that movements on the internet are not limited to the virtual realm, nor are the people on the internet powerless to affect others should they put their minds to it. An act that shows a level of coordination that the internet is not familiar with.
They are 4chaners, no matter how painful it is to say that.

They came from 4chan. They organized on 4chan. They protest under the banner of 4chan. Then, when they are done, they go back to 4chan.

Most of them go out there because it is a chance to wear a V mask and an Afro with a bunch of other /b/ members. Some go out to protest Scientology.

And its real world push and "right-thinking" people that have sucked the humor out of places like /b/. /b/ used to be funny. Now it is full of people that will go out into pubic dressed as memes, post nude pictures of themselves, then spam boards like crazy. It is the public attention towards a place like 4chan that is bad for all of us, because 4chan is a crossroads. The real world starts attacking 4chan, eventually the rest of the internet is going to get a brush ran through it as well. And, for being someone who loves freedom so much, I doubt you want that to happen.

Yes, yes, power to them for protesting Scientology. But, Scientology, to be honest, is just another religion. It is in the light because of fools like Tom Cruise. Telling your followers to stay away from things like medication is nothing new, as the Christian and Catholic church's have been doing since their birth. Xenu may be a silly story, but so is the story of a guy creating a woman out of one of his ribs.

It is the religion that is fun to pick on right now because it has been pulled into the light. But, you can easily pull any other religion into the same light and mock it just the same. They are not "evil". They are not a "cancer on the world". They are not a "poison".

Scientology is just another religion. Just another belief system starting out as a "cult" that could grow into much more.

Hell, Christianity was a cult before it become a religion.

Great Scott!
07-13-2008, 10:13 PM
Yes, yes, power to them for protesting Scientology. But, Scientology, to be honest, is just another religion. It is in the light because of fools like Tom Cruise. Telling your followers to stay away from things like medication is nothing new, as the Christian and Catholic church's have been doing since their birth. Xenu may be a silly story, but so is the story of a guy creating a woman out of one of his ribs.

It is the religion that is fun to pick on right now because it has been pulled into the light. But, you can easily pull any other religion into the same light and mock it just the same. They are not "evil". They are not a "cancer on the world". They are not a "poison".

Scientology is just another religion. Just another belief system starting out as a "cult" that could grow into much more.

Hell, Christianity was a cult before it become a religion.Sick of this so-called "point" like mad, so I think I'll copy and paste what I wrote on another forum:

This is the most BS argument ever, and I hear it a lot.

First off, Christianity was made around the time everybody was believing in God, gods, or goddesses, and after being past down through centuries it stuck with people. In fact, I'm pretty sure the religion started not too long after Jesus was murdered, so at least the whole concept actually comes from something other than a science fiction writer. There's another thing too, if a science fiction writer makes a religion, and it has some guy named "Lord Xenu" who put all the humans here in capsules, I mean, by that point, why would you even consider Scientology? No, you know what, I'm not even going to capitalize that unless it's at the beginning of a sentence, because I refuse to give the impression that I want it to be recognized. Christianity has roots, followings, stories, writings, explanations, all this stuff spanning at least a millennium. Scientology was started by some fat science fiction writer in the '60s and includes many elements of science fiction itself, and when the "church" is consistently trying to get money, that's what really gives it away. No, actually, the whole concept gives it away, some people are just too stupid to realize that.

I seriously think people like Tom Cruise who joined were merely bribed into it because they needed celebrities; hell, I bet just about every famous person who's alive was bribed by the church using the money that they scammed people out of at some point or another, and some celebrities are just greedier (and dumber) than others, but most of them continue follow something way more believable, even if not entirely.

God, Satan, Heaven, and Hell may be very hard to believe in this day and age when people look to science for all the answers, and that makes sense, in fact, I don't really believe in Christianity anymore. However, at least Christianity actually has evidence of being true, even if it's debatable after all this time, but that's natural when something lasts over, you know, 1,000 years. Scientology is science fiction, started in the mid-'60s, by an author of space fantasies who's sanity was very questionable. If anybody thinks that's even comparable to Christianity, then sign me up for the Jedi Academy, because I've felt like going on a murderous rampage against the Sand People lately.

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 10:27 PM
Sick of this argument like mad, so I think I'll copy and paste what I wrote on another forum:
Ok, I'll do the same.

In the years following the ascension of the resurrected Jesus to heaven, the Christian church grew rapidly. Christians soon found themselves to be the subjects of persecution by both the Romans and the Jews. In many locales, it became dangerous to be known as a Christian. Thus, when two strangers met and thought maybe they were fellow believers, one of them would draw, on the ground, the upper half of the fish symbol.
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishhalve1.gif
Recognizing the symbol, the stranger would add a second curved line and complete the drawing of a fish.
http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishhalve2.gif
It is a very simple shape to draw - just two curved strokes. It could be drawn quickly, and erased just as quickly if there was no sign of recognition on the part of the stranger.

http://www.eureka4you.com/fish/fishsymbol.htm
http://www.albatrus.org/english/reli...ish_symbol.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys

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The word "Cult" means this:
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.

The literal and traditional meaning of the word cult is derived from the Latin cultus meaning "care" or "adoration", which from ancient times meant a traditional practice of religion or the tribal beliefs which preceded formal religions.

Since at least the 1920s to 40s, the approach of orthodox, conservative, or fundamentalist Christians was to apply the meaning of cult such that it included those religious groups who used (possibly exclusively) non-standard translations of the Bible, put additional revelation on a similar or higher level than the Bible, or had beliefs and/or practices that were not held by current, mainstream Christianity.

By some definition, cult could hold the same meaning as any normal religion. By other definitions, it is something that is not a formal religion, or something that does not follow fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

By some of those definitions, Christianity could be considered a cult, or could have started out as a cult. The early Christians had to hide from the Romans, thus making them below what was a formal religion back then. Or, a cult.

"Cult" is commonly accepted as a negative belief system, but a cult is simply an unorthodox religion for its time. Christians, as said before, use "cult" to refer to something that is, by some definition, not Christian.

In common society today, "cult" is a word given to a group of brainwashers, exploiters, "witchercraft", and other groups that may or may not manipulate people into a belief system. Depending on the situation, the person, and the point of view, nearly any religion (including modern day Christianity) could be considered a cult. The documentary "Jesus Camp" is an example of how Christianity today could fall, under some situations, into the modern day definition for the word "cult". Being raised and taught to be a tight Christian could be considered by some to be a form of brainwashing, manipulation, or indoctrination, thus also putting it into the current day definition of "cult".

What I'm trying to say is, the word has been manipulated for so long that it is hard to give it a meaning anymore. It is commonly accepted as a negative, but what it is an unorthodox religion for its time. Brainwashing is unorthodox now, but I'm sure throughout history that was even seen as a social norm once.

I'm not calling Christianity a negative in this sense. I'm calling it what it was at the time when the Ichthys (fish) was a sign of secrecy and digression. Today, I'm sure a religion that runs around making fish signs would be persecuted and called a "cult" by some, because that is exactly what it would be.

And, A religion that followers a science fiction novel could be considered unorthodox. Thus, by definition, Scientology is a cult, or an informal religion.

Christianity was informal and unorthodox once. Thus, a cult.

However, at least Christianity actually has evidence of being true, even if it's debatable after all this time, but that's natural when something lasts over, you know, 1,000 years.
Hubbard novel has many real world elements in it, like the Hydrogen bomb and the planes. A thousand years from now, we could have lost much of what we had today. Two thousand years from now, Scientology could be the new accepted Religion of many. His books could be that ages bible.

As you said, it is natural when something lasts over 1,000 years.

Scientology is science fiction, started in the mid-'60s, by an author of space fantasies who's sanity was very questionable. If anybody thinks that's even comparable to Christianity, then sign me up for the Jedi Academy, because I've felt like going on a murderous rampage against the Sand People lately.
The bible was a bunch of stories thousands of years old. There are stories of a man living in a giant fish. Stories of a man taking one of his ribs and making a woman. There are stories of flaming rain destroying cities.

I question the sanity of anybody who believes those stories. Same goes for the people that wrote them. It is the exact same thing, but Scientology just happens to be the new guy.

The very fact it has followers proves that it is believable. It has followers, and can thus be considered a cult at worst, and a new religion at best.

Thus, comparable to Christianity.

Great Scott!
07-13-2008, 10:34 PM
Ehhh, you do make some good points... I have some stuff I'd love to counter with, but I'm really sick of doing that so many times when all it does is continue these conversations and sometimes lead to people getting angry (not me, and I doubt you would either, but someone certainly would), so although I don't agree with you I don't really want to write five-ten paragraphs of a counter-argument that will just be countered again. Take it as a surrender or however you want, I just don't want to waste my time and I'll let myself believe what I believe, not like everyone else has to know or agree with my personal thoughts.

I'll just end this saying that I hate scientology and 4chan, and nothing will change my opinion.

True_Avery
07-13-2008, 10:39 PM
I'll just end this saying that I hate scientology and 4chan, and nothing will change my opinion.
Fair enough.

Astor
07-14-2008, 04:41 AM
Personally, I don't care about the politics of what is, in my opinion a cesspit, but:

Also, take in mind that your Anon heroes have done a number of illegal things to the Church of Scientology. They crashed websites, overloaded bandwidth, and caused quite a bill of damage.

The C of S is hardly innocent of that either. Throughout their history they have taken part in, and orchestrated a number of illegal activities, not in the least being Operation Snow White.

They have a well documented history of criminal activity, so the C of S can hardly play innocent in that regard.

They organize internet raids and crash Scientology websites, causing damage that actually costs money to repair.

Scientologists organise REAL raids and infiltrate REAL organisations, causing damage that actually costs money to repair.

I'm only going to say one thing about 4chan, because I don't know all too much about it:

You get rid of 4chan, that poison just finds a new place to go. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of people that visit 4chan, I think you are better off having them be in 1 place.

I wouldn't have problem with 4chan if they could restrict the stuff they find to 4chan, such as 'lolcats' or whatever else, as opposed to parading it out at every opportunity like two year olds.

Q
07-14-2008, 08:15 AM
Throughout their history they have taken part in, and orchestrated a number of illegal activities, not in the least being Operation Snow White. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White)I just read up on this. Now I know why they're on the feds' fecal roster. I remember Hubbard's books being advertised while growing up in the 80's, I remember (and wish that I could forget) Battlefield Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_Earth_%28film%29) and Tom Cruise being a total jackass as of late, but I honestly had no idea what a subversive group the Scientologists are until now. Thanks for mentioning that, A_K.

Det. Bart Lasiter
07-14-2008, 11:01 AM
I wouldn't have problem with 4chan if they could restrict the stuff they find to 4chan, such as 'lolcats' or whatever else, as opposed to parading it out at every opportunity like two year olds.the people who parade it around in real life and the people who spread it around the internet are the same people.

Astor
07-14-2008, 11:54 AM
the people who parade it around in real life and the people who spread it around the internet are the same people.

Forgive me if i'm confused, but I haven't said that they aren't the same people. All I was saying was that it'd be nice if they realised that other people on the internet maybe don't want to see it.

But now we're veering off of the original topic.

Pho3nix
07-14-2008, 12:43 PM
Personally, I don't have a problem with the protesting "anons". I find them rather amusing.