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View Full Version : Kicking butt and taking one million names.


True_Avery
07-17-2008, 05:59 AM
http://www.aclu.org/privacy/35968prs20080714.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080714/ts_nm/security_usa_watchlist_dc
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/14/americas-terrorist-watch_n_112634.html

The Terrorist Watch List has now reached 1,000,000 people. So, are you on the list?

Thoughts?

In other news, Nelson Madela is now off the watch list:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/01/mandela.watch/

Doc Valentine
07-17-2008, 06:05 AM
It's very possible. Considering how much time I spend on the telephone and how much reliance I have on it to connect with friends that I am otherwise out of touch with, I would likely have hit that list. Especially with all the "Trigger Words" there are.

Still, I think it's so crazy that it has gotten so far. It's almost like the Communist Black List where you begin to wonder just how effective and reliable it really is.

"Putting a million names on a watch list is a guarantee that the list will do more harm than good by interfering with the travel of innocent people and wasting huge amounts of our limited security resources on bureaucratic wheel-spinning," said Steinhardt. "I doubt this thing would even be effective at catching a real terrorist."

I really liked that quote in the first one. Again, you really have to wonder, just how reliable it is.

-Doc

Litofsky
07-17-2008, 09:17 AM
I'm probably on it. I've said so many things about my government that-- *gunshot*

I understand having a no-fly list for maybe one hundred, mentally unfit, or are just a danger to most of society. But 1,000,000 people?! That's 1/300th of our population! That's picking one out of every three-hundred people, and saying, "You're not allowed to fly. Deal with it."

:disaprove

This is yet another failure by our current Administration, and I hope that this is another reason why George Bush, the 43rd President of the United States, should go down as the worst in history (that's right. I put him in front of James Buchanan, the President that let the South secede. Bush is just that bad).

ForeverNight
07-17-2008, 10:00 AM
Well, if it were all Americans, than, yes, that would be 1/300th of the population, however, since Nelson Mendela was on the list, than that means it extends to more of the world. However, since I haven't seen said list, I cannot say if it includes EVERYBODY in the world when they're making it (Thus it would be 1/~7000th) or if it only includes certain choice countries (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syrria, N. Korea, et cetera).

And, why is it that one takes it's size for being ineffective? Is it because whatever Government Organ decides who goes on has identified 1M people to go on the list? Now, I'm not the biggest fan in the world of creating a "Terrorist Watch List" that it seems near anybody can be added to, however, I quote Darman from the first Republic Commando Book: "Not all soldiers [Terrorists] are young and male."

Granted the Terrorism we've been seeing the past fifteen years has been centered around religious groups -with hardly a true religious cause behind them- that are patriarchal in nature. So, I guess the list still makes an iota of sense... *Shrugs*

mimartin
07-17-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm on the no fly list for no other reason than I share a name with someone else. I have no problem with there being a list. I have a problem with even when the government agrees that you should not be on the list, they will not remove your name from the list. As far as I’m concerned the list is a joke and nothing more than proof of the stupidity of a power mad government. They judge their accomplishment by the number of names on the list without taking into account if these people are actually a threat. Guilty until proven innocent is now a fact in American. 1,000,000 names just proves that justice is blind as well as deaf and dumb in America.

Arcesious
07-17-2008, 11:34 AM
I don't think that 1/300th of our population are terrorists... Lucky me, I'm too young to be a terrorist. (lol.)

Inyri
07-17-2008, 11:39 AM
Lies. Did you not read that they were detaining infants? Obviously they are worried about diaper bombs. Someone must not have explained that concept to them properly...

Astor
07-17-2008, 11:42 AM
How does one know if they are on this list? Is the person told? I shouldn't like to go to America and be detained because I share the same name as a terrorist.

El Sitherino
07-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Yes, yes I am.

mimartin
07-17-2008, 12:08 PM
How does one know if they are on this list? Is the person told? I shouldn't like to go to America and be detained because I share the same name as a terrorist.

You have no rights. You cannot call them up and ask if you are on the list.

I found out when I was flying to Las Vegas for a weekend. When I tried to print a boarding pass the system said that I was not allowed to print a boarding pass. When I called the airline to find out what the problem was they said I had to get the boarding pass when I got to the airport. When I got to the airport I tried to print a board pass at one of the terminals, but it said I had to check in. After standing in the line I was told confidentially by the airline employee that I was on the list and I had to go through more security. They went through my bags and striped me down to my underwear before allowing me to get a boarding pass. I will say the security personal was very nice about it and they were constantly apologizing for the inconvenience. They even gave me the address to write in order to apply to get my name off the list, but they again confidentially told me it was a waste of time. On my return trip to Houston, I was able to print my boarding pass at the airport terminal, but I still got pulled to the side and checked extra carefully, but they did not check my bags or make me pull off my clothes. Three months later on a trip to California the entire process was repeated. The way there was a pain and the trip back was a minor inconvenience.

In the mean time, Homeland Security replied to my letter by saying that it was regrettable that I was on the list, but since I shared a name with a known threat I would remain on the list. I usually go to Texas Longhorn away football games, but it isn’t worth the trouble anymore. I hate to make my friends wait on me while I dealing with airport security. :(

At least it is saving me money.

Litofsky
07-17-2008, 12:15 PM
You have no rights.

Oh, how true (and sad) that is... :(

In the mean time, Homeland Security replied to my letter by saying that it was regrettable that I was on the list, but since I shared a name with a known threat I would remain on the list. I usually go to Texas Longhorn away football games, but it isnít worth the trouble anymore. I hate to make my friends wait on me while I dealing with airport security. :(

That stinks. So, because you share a name with someone on the list, you can't fly? It makes me happy to know that my government is doing their job: ******* things up. :)

Arcesious
07-17-2008, 12:24 PM
This may sound stupid, but if we can't ask if we're on the list, then let's all try to get on the list somehow...(Without performing terrorist acts or doing things that may seem terrorist-like) Perhaps by protesting it. The more people trying to get on the list, it will be all the more of a waste of time and a pain in the neck for the government to be using the watchlist the way it is, and trying to keep track of so many people; and hopefully force them to knock the numbers down to a reasonable number. -just an idea...

Rev7
07-17-2008, 12:34 PM
This is crazy. Yes, there are some that deserve to be on this list, while there are probably many others that don't deserve this. 1,000,000 people is a lot....

Once we moved to where I am living now we opened a bank account at the local credit union. My mother almost couldn't get one because she was on some kind of list. We found out at the credit union that it was because someone in Mexico or a South America had a name pretty close to hers. Quite interesting to tell you the truth. She did get the account though. :)

This may sound stupid, but if we can't ask if we're on the list, then let's all try to get on the list somehow...(Without performing terrorist acts or doing things that may seem terrorist-like) Perhaps by protesting it. The more people trying to get on the list, it will be all the more of a waste of time and a pain in the neck for the government to be using the watchlist the way it is, and trying to keep track of so many people; and hopefully force them to knock the numbers down to a reasonable number. -just an idea...
Do you think that would work though? I don't.

mimartin
07-17-2008, 12:42 PM
This may sound stupid, but if we can't ask if we're on the list, then let's all try to get on the list somehow...(Without performing terrorist acts or doing things that may seem terrorist-like) Perhaps by protesting it. The more people trying to get on the list, it will be all the more of a waste of time and a pain in the neck for the government to be using the watchlist the way it is, and trying to keep track of so many people; and hopefully force them to knock the numbers down to a reasonable number. -just an idea...

Not a good idea, sorry. The resources are already stretched thin. See the quote Doc Valentine pointed out in post #2. Using up more resources would only make us more vulnerable to a real terrorist. The best way to protest this stupidity is to vote and contact your congressional representative. Let’s not do anything that would be detrimental to our own security, that is this government’s job. :D

Nedak
07-17-2008, 03:25 PM
I bet I'm on it.

That would be real just. I bet I'm on it while the guy that makes phone calls in the middle of the night in Russian, Arabic, and Czech remains okay.

Totenkopf
07-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Don't feel too bad. I recall hearing that Ted Kennedy had (still has?) his name on it too at one point...;)

mimartin
07-17-2008, 04:39 PM
Don't feel too bad. I recall hearing that Ted Kennedy had (still has?) his name on it too at one point...;)

I think the criteria for getting off the watch list is you have to have won the Noble Peace Prize during your lifetime. Lucky thing for Nelson Mandela, although it ticks me off that my government would remove some foreigner’s name, but not mine. (that is sarcasm) Senator Kennedy’s on there for his lousy driving skills.

Off to bring peace to the middle east...

Totenkopf
07-17-2008, 04:42 PM
On a fool's errand, mimartin? ;)

Arcesious
07-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Eh, then mine was a bad idea. Problem is, will all the representatives vote honestly when we vote that they do soemthing about the problem?

Although, one thing to think about, what is the percentage of criminals roaming free in the United States in comparison to the total population? 1/300 is .003 percent, after all... Is one million a reasonablely possible amount, considering a total world population of about 6.6 billion? I think the government has messed up going over a million, but just for speculations sake, is it possible that this is a reasonable statistic?

True_Avery
07-17-2008, 06:18 PM
There is a difference between a terrorist, and your run of the mill criminal (Last time I checked Fox's news definition). Also, I don't think mimartin is a criminal... at least I'd hope not.

TKA-001
07-17-2008, 06:54 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if I was on that list, even though:
1. I'm a certified, card-carrying recluse
2. The most suspicious activity I've ever been involved in is going for a few walks while wearing a trenchcoat in the winter

mimartin
07-17-2008, 07:47 PM
Also, I don't think mimartin is a criminal... at least I'd hope not.

If we don’t count underage drinking, then no I’m not a criminal. Even if we do count it the statute of limitation has long since ran its course.

Funny thing is the Securities and Exchange Commission has no problem with me as I hold licenses though them to sell securities. You can’t sell securities with a criminal record. I’ve been handcuffed once in college when I got pulled over for reckless driving. My neighbor had overdosed and we were driving her to the emergency room. Once the officer got me calmed down enough to explain he released me and gave me an escort to the hospital. My only other run in with the law was being interviewed by the FBI when my friend that works for NASA was getting a higher security clearance. He got the clearance so I guess the FBI did not have a problem with me being his friend.

I think it is just Home Land Security hates me and since I bad mouth FEMA (the national flood program) all the time and FEMA is a part of Home Land Security then they do have some justification. ;)

On a fool's errand, mimartin? ;)

Not looking for a lasting peace just want to win the Noble Peace Prize and get my name off the watch list. Figure I’ll get the entire middle east to sing “Say Say Say” by Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. It can’t be that hard to win the Peace Prize after all Al Gore has one.

Relenzo2
07-17-2008, 08:19 PM
I could be on that list.

Just a thought, It wouldn't surprise me if they blacklisted everyone here just because we used LucasForums. There are some pretty interesting political discussions in Kavar's Corner, after all.