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Doctorjones
08-15-2008, 02:48 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted before, but just out of interest.

Did Darth Maul ever use Sith lightning? I no he doesn't in the Phantom Menace. I would be suprised if he didn't at some point, or maybe he just wasn't strong enough or skilled enough to use it yet?

Any thoughts?

Rev7
08-15-2008, 06:04 PM
I sure that he was able to being that Sidious was his master, I personally think that he just didn't use it. He was more of a swordsman fighter. :giveup:

TKA-001
08-15-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm under the impression that lightning is not a power that any schmo can use just because they're a dark-sider and they know another dark-sider who can. It's a pretty badass power and can do quite a lot of damage, so I doubt it would be easy for a person to learn.

One might be interested by the fact that Maul uses lightning in both the Episode I movie game and in Jedi Power Battles (a loosely-based action game), but I don't think they can be taken as evidence on their own.

RC-1183
08-15-2008, 08:09 PM
i agree with rev i say he couldve he just didnt want to because he would rather cut someone up than shock them

LordOfTheFish
08-16-2008, 07:44 AM
I agree with Rev. Darth Maul was most definitely a swordsman

Relenzo2
08-16-2008, 01:11 PM
I agree with LordofTheFish. We agree with Rev, Darth Maul was most definately a swordsman. This thread could start to get repetitive.
Darth Maul is certainly not "any Schmo". He was powerful enough for something like that, he probably just didn't want to use it... or even bother to learn it.

teodesetkata
08-20-2008, 09:42 AM
Come to think of it, Darth Vader didn't use Lightning, either... at least, in the movies.

Astor
08-20-2008, 12:15 PM
Come to think of it, Darth Vader didn't use Lightning, either... at least, in the movies.

That's because he's missing certain essential appendages to be able to do it.

Darth Maul is certainly not "any Schmo". He was powerful enough for something like that, he probably just didn't want to use it... or even bother to learn it.

Given we see Maul for all of about half an hour, how did you reach the conclusion that he was powerful enough to use it?

M@RS
08-20-2008, 02:28 PM
Well, he was able to kill a Jedi Master first time, the only reason he got killed was because Obi-Wan was ticked at him for killing Qui-Gon and he was barely able to out maneuver Maul and kill him...

Astor
08-20-2008, 02:41 PM
Well, he was able to kill a Jedi Master first time, the only reason he got killed was because Obi-Wan was ticked at him for killing Qui-Gon and he was barely able to out maneuver Maul and kill him...

No, he didn't kill a Jedi Master first time - he fought a stalemate on Tatooine, or did you forget that?

He got killed because he was overconfident in his situation - there's no way a mere padawn could kill a Sith Apprentice, right?

But none of that is proof that he knew how to use Force Lightning.

M@RS
08-20-2008, 06:38 PM
No, he didn't kill a Jedi Master first time - he fought a stalemate on Tatooine, or did you forget that?

He got killed because he was overconfident in his situation - there's no way a mere padawn could kill a Sith Apprentice, right?

But none of that is proof that he knew how to use Force Lightning.

Acutally I did forget, but even Qui-Gon said that Maul was extremely powerful, what would stop him from using force lightning?

Darth krunchy
08-20-2008, 07:15 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted before, but just out of interest.

Did Darth Maul ever use Sith lightning? I no he doesn't in the Phantom Menace. I would be suprised if he didn't at some point, or maybe he just wasn't strong enough or skilled enough to use it yet?

Any thoughts?


Darth Vader never used Sith Lightning.

ellimar
08-21-2008, 12:50 AM
Darth Vader never used Sith Lightning.

Darth Vader couldn't use sith lightning because of his robotic limbs/implants.

Darth krunchy
08-21-2008, 04:35 PM
Darth Vader couldn't use sith lightning because of his robotic limbs/implants.
Good call, that's why he could choke enemies, right? :rolleyes:

ChAiNz.2da
08-21-2008, 05:27 PM
Good call, that's why he could choke enemies, right? :rolleyes:

Though a powerful Sith Lord, Darth Vader's usage of Force lightning was suppressed, due to the prosthetic arm he had fitted to replace a hand lost in battle with Count Dooku, and after the disastrous confrontation on Mustafar (although his trademark use of Force Choke more than compensated for this lack). Vader could not channel lightning through his body for fear of damaging his cybernetic implants, and also meant he became much more vulnerable to the effects of Force lightning. This vulnerability would eventually contribute to his death. Although there is one case where Darth Vader did use Sith lightning. When Darth Vader was in close proximity to the presence of the Kaiburr Crystal on Circarpous V, the amplification effects of the Force caused the Dark Lord's affinity with the dark side of the Force to expand even greater. As a result, the crystal granted Vader the ability to cast Force lightning, normally impossible due to Vader's bionic limbs and life-support systems.


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning

M@RS
08-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Good call, that's why he could choke enemies, right? :rolleyes:

He's right...duh

PoiuyWired
08-24-2008, 02:04 AM
No, he didn't kill a Jedi Master first time - he fought a stalemate on Tatooine, or did you forget that?

He got killed because he was overconfident in his situation - there's no way a mere padawn could kill a Sith Apprentice, right?

But none of that is proof that he knew how to use Force Lightning.

... or prove that he cannot.

General LiWar
08-24-2008, 02:24 AM
Basically, nothing canon says he does/doesn't. However, whether he did or not, I'm going to agree with all of you and say he's a swordsman. In the movies, you never see him use any force powers (except maybe jump, i can't remember), he only relies on his lightsaber.

Astor
08-24-2008, 03:54 AM
... or prove that he cannot.

I am aware of that, but I haven't actually said that he can't, I was just asking how others draw the conclusion that he can.

Relenzo2
08-24-2008, 09:20 AM
He DID kill Qui-gon Jinn, while Obi-Wan was helping- even if he fought to a stalemate the second time, Qui-Gon had a spaceship that time. So I draw the conclusion he's pretty powerful. But yes, we all think he's the swordsman type. Why else would he be showing off with that double-sided saber? And we never actually see him explicitly use any Force Powers.

Henz
10-12-2008, 06:59 AM
We do see him use the force. He throws something into a door lock during the fight, and then force pushes Obi down a hole.

I've always seen the good swordsmen and the strong force users as two ends of the power spectrum personally.

Ultimate Vader
10-12-2008, 07:15 AM
Powerful doesn't always mean all-round good. When we see a great blademaster like Kas'im, we can say that he's powerful. When we see Palpatine uses Force Storm, we can say that he's powerful. And it seems that Maul prefer using the force to "empower" his body and use his rage and hate to create force fury. I make prediction like that because he never shows any use of force like sith lightning, but he won't be a sith if he can't use the force. I remember a picture, showing Maul withstands a Sith lightning. I think he's using force fury to withstand that pain. Anyway, there's no evidence Maul uses Sith Lightning, so I don't believe he can.

K_Kinnison
10-12-2008, 07:15 AM
As we remember in ANH one aspect of using a lightsaber is using the force for Precognition, increased speed, precision and power. I often see a Force user sable fight as a battle using both mind and muscle... the ultimate test (like Dooku vs YOda) That is when when in the middle of a battle they are literally moping the floor with every non-force user in the battle.

A Galaxy Foreseen
10-24-2008, 05:29 PM
Well, he was able to kill a Jedi Master first time, the only reason he got killed was because Obi-Wan was ticked at him for killing Qui-Gon and he was barely able to out maneuver Maul and kill him...
I say my friend,
He could of killed Obi-Wan with the same move that Obi-Wan did on Anakin in there Battle on Mustafar.
But yeah.

But That is beside the point, I agree on the idea of that he could use it but just did not
care to. He, in my opinion used force push more than anything. (as he used it to push Obi-Wan into that pit)

Te Je'karta Mand'alor
05-06-2009, 05:27 PM
nope... he never knew how to use it. and i heard from a friend that he thought of his force sensitivity as a curse...? any comments?

Darth Zavier
06-19-2009, 01:02 AM
Well sure he could use it, duh. But I don't understand why they didn't have him use it. but, good question, I was going to ask the same thing.

Alexrd
06-19-2009, 06:15 AM
Well, he did used Sith Lightning on The Phantom Menace Game, but that's non canon. And everybody knows he focused more on lightsaber battle rather than the Force.

Darth Zavier
06-19-2009, 11:12 PM
That's true. Sidious trained him to be the master of hand-to-hand lightsaber combat.

Darth Avlectus
06-22-2009, 02:12 AM
Come to think of it, Darth Vader didn't use Lightning, either... at least, in the movies.

I would think that even if he could, it would be disastrous for him: it would destroy or damage all of the electrical machinery in his prosthetic limbs.

Having worked with electricity in real life I could say it also would dig in or bite down into his flesh at edges or sharp points. Not to mention the metal limbs would be excellent conductors of the physical electrical energy portion of force lightning. Also would not be wise b/c he is bionic by necessity and it would damage and fry critical life support systems, severly injuring if not killing him. What little is left of him, anyway.

The following is only in the game and I don't know about canonized content, otherwise:
PS1 SW:Phantom Menace game, at the very last part of your fight with maul, if you are out of saber combat range, maul will repeatedly make a hand gesture and a little red bolt of lightning will leap out of his hand hitting you and whittle away your health until you either die or you fight him. Looks like the bolt that comes from Amidala's droid restrainer, but her's was blue.

Sorry if this has already been posted before, but just out of interest.

Did Darth Maul ever use Sith lightning? I no he doesn't in the Phantom Menace. I would be suprised if he didn't at some point, or maybe he just wasn't strong enough or skilled enough to use it yet?

Any thoughts?

Other than my example, you'd have to read up on Darth Maul. But I don't think he did. He could have, but I don't think so.

I say my friend,
He could of killed Obi-Wan with the same move that Obi-Wan did on Anakin in there Battle on Mustafar.
But yeah.

But That is beside the point, I agree on the idea of that he could use it but just did not
care to. He, in my opinion used force push more than anything. (as he used it to push Obi-Wan into that pit)

I'll settle for that, I suppose.

Alexrd
06-22-2009, 06:48 AM
PS1 SW:Phantom Menace game, at the very last part of your fight with maul, if you are out of saber combat range, maul will repeatedly make a hand gesture and a little red bolt of lightning will leap out of his hand hitting you and whittle away your health until you either die or you fight him. Looks like the bolt that comes from Amidala's droid restrainer, but her's was blue.

Offtopic: The PC version is way better. :D

Demongo
06-22-2009, 07:41 AM
As many of you stated before, he focused on his lightsaber, lightsaber form, combat not on the Force.

Darth Zavier
06-22-2009, 02:25 PM
Yes, you are correct, but if he had lived to be on AOTC, he would have used things such as Lightning.

Insignia_Enithma
06-24-2009, 04:54 PM
Good call, that's why he could choke enemies, right? :rolleyes:

Ok, so you think a lethal dose of electric running through a robotic appendage would work out well for vader?

Kurgan
06-25-2009, 02:31 AM
First off, Maul really did use the Force... notice how prior to Episode I, a lot of fans had this thing about assuming you actually couldn't use "offensive force" during a saber duel, because it required too much concentration or something (at least not against someone who was "well trained").

Maul broke this, using not only the typical "jump," he actually Force pushed Obi-Wan off a ledge while in a saber lock! He also casually used a battle droid part to open a door while fighting two Jedi at once. It's quite clear that whatever this might have been in the original films, it's no limitation on Prequel era Jedi/Sith. Maul has plenty of control over the Force.

Maul isn't the "only a swordsman" guy (did you also notice how he used physical blows like kicks during battle?). For that, you want General Grievous (whose "Jedi arts training" clearly only encompassed fighting, because he had zero defense against a simple push Episode III).

Second, I know that "having hands made of flesh" is something that is offered as an explanation in the Expanded Universe as to why VADER never uses lightning, but it isn't a very satisfying explanation for me. None of the other force powers seem to require physical hands to perform (even the movie "gestures" appear to be a tool of focuser for the user, not strictly required to do something). Couldn't he just channel it through his "stumps"? Why not make the robot limbs out of some material that could safely channel the lightning if that was the issue? (the Prequels demonstrate that this technology exists in the Star Wars universe, and we have no proof that "sith" lightning is really anymore dangerous than any other form of electricity they routinely handle).

The real reason is that Lucas hadn't thought of "Force Lightning" until he started working on Return of the Jedi. By then it could have been chalked up as some kind of mysterious "ultimate power" that only the Emperor knew. Episode II changed all that (well, and the EU for years has basically had every schmo who has been around using it, as mentioned... maybe the "Secret" got out of the bag after the battle of Endor?).

It's really never explained why some can use lightning but others cannot, except the outside the movie "well he didn't have arms so..." which is silly, because we can then ask "so why didn't he get cloned arms so he could throw lightning, if it was so important"?

Then the excuses because sillier.. "he forgot," "too sad," "Palpatine wouldn't let him but he never took it as a slight against him,"

If it was "Palpatine was deliberately holding him back" that's silly because the whole reason Palpatine supposedly switched to Anakin was because he wanted that power and potential for himself. If he had no problem giving Dooku "the secret" (assuming it was) why not Anakin?

And I don't buy the "clone body parts don't have the force" because while this is an EU thing, it's totally at odds with the Episode II novelization. Plus, part of the logic of the Clone troopers is that Force users have influence over them (otherwise what are we supposed to assume, that anyone barking an order at them would gain their loyalty? The Separatists should have used big loudspeakers on the battlefield to countermand them!).

It's just a movie inconsistency, sort of like "Sith Eyes."


PS: Anakin uses lightning in the "Episode III: Revenge of the Sith" game too (so I guess in the game's anything goes, but someone who bought into the "official excuse" could argue that he only uses his left hand for that, which is still organic).

Mandalore The Shadow
06-25-2009, 01:10 PM
I think the only sith (in the movies) to use force lightning was Sidious and Tyranus

DarthAwesome
06-28-2009, 10:18 PM
As others have said, I think Maul could use force lightning but he just chose not to. It may not have been as powerful as The Emperor's but nevertheless...

Insignia_Enithma
06-29-2009, 09:34 AM
I don't think Maul could use lightning purely because he spent most of his energies training for lightsaber combat and applying the force to said combat.

mattig89ch
07-02-2009, 01:52 PM
Nah, I always got the impression that lightning was something you could not learn, but something that came naturally to you. thats why vader never used it.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor
08-03-2009, 07:06 PM
maul WAS more of a swordsman, but don't think he was able to use it. i mean, he was'nt even a sith lord when sidius was training him.... maybe later in his life though

noizer
10-06-2009, 07:45 AM
this is something we will problaby will never know.

for all we know he could use lightning but didnt want to use it.

i prefer to think that he couldnt use it since he was more swordsman then a real force wielder.

Kurgan
10-06-2009, 11:10 AM
i prefer to think that he couldnt use it since he was more swordsman then a real force wielder.

People say that a lot, but he actually uses the force more than his two Jedi opponents in that battle (and nobody says they "were more swordsmen than real force wielders").

The trouble is that the EU basically established (long before this movie) that "Force Lightning" (nobody ever called it "Sith Lightning" until the prequel era, iirc) was a standard power that anybody could use, even if it were a "upper level" power. The Force was standardized. Sure, it started to show somebody was "whoa a powerful threat" but then everyone had it.

Suddenly Episode I comes up and nobody has it, oh wait, now Dooku has it, but he only uses one hand, oops, now Yoda can use it, sorta, etc.

I guess we're given too few examples of actual Force combat to really know how widespread this power is. Yoda and Obi-Wan seemed pretty competent combating it (and in Yoda's case even using it, though people are going to argue with me and say "well he only DEFLECTED and ABSORBED it," because they think it's eeeevil and Yoda "would never" use it, but whatever), even though supposedly this is a "Sith power" (never stated in the movie, but assumed outside of it since the movie came out) and nobody has fought a Sith in 1,000 years...

Which raises the other question of how Maul and Sideous got so powerful if all they ever had was each other to train with... It almost makes me wonder if in the Star Wars universe lightsaber skill isn't really learned, but thought to be some kind of innate ability, like instant knowledge from the Force or something that increases with power level? (sounds crazy right? no crazier than the other stuff we're given)

I think a lot of people treat Force users like Dragonball Z characters, and I guess I am too here. The games throw it all into confusion.

The idea that if Maul had it, he'd have used it, is a hard one to make, since a lot of Force powers are not used during duels (in fact, some of the usage first in Episode I and then here was a bit of a shock to a lot of folks, because they'd built up this belief over the years that you simple couldn't use such powers during a battle either because of some unspoken code of honor or that the concentration was so high that they couldn't do that, or else their powers always canceled each other out). But then we see quite clearly that lightning is used during a fight (or at least between fights). So who knows.

We can look back now and try to quantify it all, but to me, it seems that Lucas was just being stylistic... the Jedi and Sith get or lose ("forget to use") powers based on the needs of the entertainment for the moment, much like comic book super heroes.

Visas
11-03-2009, 09:01 AM
He's more about the lightsabre than the force.

PoiuyWired
11-16-2009, 09:53 PM
Stylistic is dfinitely one thing when it coems to movie. But combat style and training is also another. Just because you *know* how to do something doesn't mean you have the ability to fluently use it effectively in the heat of battle. And, as we know it, Maul seems to be mostly facing 2 enemies rather than one. You fall back to the most trusted skills you know best. Maul is more melee oriented (yes he can use a blaster too, on top of other force powers), Dooku is just skilled at dueling, and Sidius is Force Power.

Its like saying, why don't they force throw a bunch of things all the time? Why don't they saber throw multiple sabers? why don't they just force grip/choke each other from start? why don't they... its a matter of combat style... that, and obviously some things are difficult/impractical/dangerous to perform during heated battle (*you do not see me in front of you...*... Oops! ...now... where did my hand go...)

Technically you can have someone dual-wielding 2 double-sabers, with an extra one in his mouth, then a dozen or so vibro shuriken floating around him with force power, then floating up some rapid firing blasters(or hack, gun turrets, size matter not!) all the while floating mid air surrounding himself with a continuous force malestorm and shooting force lightning out of his toes...

Kurgan
11-17-2009, 07:50 PM
Not quite. Watch the duels portrayed in the movies... Dooku uses the force a lot before, DURING and after his saber battles (all of which he wins, incidentally other than his final battle with Anakin).

Sideous as well uses a saber well enough in Episode III, beating three Jedi before the fourth overwhelms him (when all three attacked at once). He also scares Yoda so badly that Yoda runs away (despite the fight being more or less an even match).

I'll grant you that the cinematography of the fight Sideous has with Mace Windu's three accomplices is pretty poor. I guess most of it comes from the fact that Lucas threw it together at the last minute (Ian McDiarmond admits in the Episode III bonus material that he hadn't been given much fight training and most of his dueling was done with CGI and editing late in production of the final prequel).

You'll notice that Maul uses the Force during his fights, so there's no rule against using it, and it's not as if he couldn't.

I think it's clear that Lucas was making it up as he went along. He didn't "invent" Force lightning until after Empire Strikes Back (the closest thing to it is a big blue-white ball of energy that Vader throws and Luke sends flying back at him in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" written by Alan Dean Foster in 1979, which is based on some rejected ideas for a "cheap sequel" if Star Wars had not been the huge hit that it was... all this was shelved in favor of what we saw in ESB). And we had no idea really who could and couldn't use Lightning all those years. The EU speculated that it was just a power you got after you became powerful enough (most Star Wars games for example let not only bad guys but also good guys use this power when they get strong enough in the Force; the Episode I: TPM game on PSX and PC gave Maul red lightning for example). Later some of the games decided it was ONLY for Dark Siders (Dark Jedi and Sith).

Episode II threw us for a loop by giving it to Dooku (and inexplicably Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to defeat it... was there some ancient manual on fighting Sith in the Jedi archives that they'd read but Anakin hadn't?).

Another "shock" to many people was that Yoda and Palpatine used lightsabers, because up to this point a lot of fans speculated that once you got powerful enough in the force you didn't use them (or they took Yoda's words in ESB to be literal, that he was some kind of pacifist... though it was odd that he was training Luke to assassinate the two leaders of the Empire). Some of the EU told us that both of these guys used lightsabers, but again, force lightning was never clear.

So as to why Maul never used it, is still pure speculation, just like why Vader never used it. There are answers sure, but they're contradictory. The movies really don't tell us, and leave it an open question.

Essentially it seems like Force powers are inconsistent, and are completely dependent upon the writers' whim.

So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time. ;)

adamqd
11-19-2009, 06:02 AM
So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time. ;)

QFT hehe :)

But yea, as Kurg says, Lucas makes it up as he goes along to a degree, and probably forgot about Force lightning until the making of AOTC, But I see Maul as a Lightsaber Specialist anyway, and a Padawan and Knight, who hadn't faced Sith before would hardly warrant the full bag of Tricks... or so Maul Thought :)

Jeff
11-19-2009, 06:15 AM
So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time. ;)I like this explanation best.

Kurgan
11-19-2009, 11:59 AM
And let's not forget the additional shock (that people are still tripping over themselves to explain away) that Yoda, after "absorbing" lightning from Dooku, throws a bolt of lightning right back in his face.

What was all that talk about "NEVER" using the Force "for attack"? I guess Yoda radically changed his philosophy of the Jedi rules in those 20 years on Dagobah, eh?

TKA-001
11-19-2009, 04:47 PM
Dooku shot first. The first four times, in fact.

GeneralPloKoon
11-19-2009, 05:04 PM
Maul is way too awesome for lightning! ;)

Kurgan
11-19-2009, 11:11 PM
Dooku shot first. The first four times, in fact.

Yeah, but Yoda doesn't say "Jedi can use the force for attack, so long as their enemy takes the first swing!"

Anyway, Yoda threw lightning, that's in the movie. But people are like "no, he couldn't have, because that's a Dark Side only power!"

That's what I meant.

purifier
11-23-2009, 03:07 AM
Anyway, Yoda threw lightning, that's in the movie. But people are like "no, he couldn't have, because that's a Dark Side only power!"

That's what I meant.


:confused: I thought he was blocking and reflecting it back at Dooku by his on hand when Dooku shot at Yoda with it. Kinda like when Mace Windu reflected the Emporer's own lighting back at him, with his lightsabre.



Or am I thinking of another encounter that Yoda had with someone else?

Kurgan
11-23-2009, 01:59 PM
Watch the scene again. He does that little glowy thing in his hand for awhile where Dooku's blast hits his hand and does nothing. Then he pushes his hand forward and throws lightning in Dooku's face. Dooku BLOCKS it with his hand and sends it into the ceiling where it explodes in flames.

That's the only time in any of the movies where we see anything like it. It isn't even the same as the scene where in that stalemate with Palpatine in Episode III.

Somebody once suggested that here Yoda isn't using the same hand gesture as Dooku, so he must not "really" be throwing it, but if you watch Episode III and ROTJ you see that there is no single universal hand gesture for "lightning" (just like there isn't one for any other Force ability used in more than one movie, and sometimes they use the force without any gestures, though lightning always appears to come forth from a hand somehow).

purifier
11-24-2009, 02:47 PM
Watch the scene again. He does that little glowy thing in his hand for awhile where Dooku's blast hits his hand and does nothing. Then he pushes his hand forward and throws lightning in Dooku's face. Dooku BLOCKS it with his hand and sends it into the ceiling where it explodes in flames.


Okay......I see what your saying. Hmmm.....never noticed that before until you brought it to light.

Lol. Learn something new everyday. ;)

Anakin_Xisali
12-18-2010, 07:00 PM
This is entirely EU, but in the Yuuzhan Vong War, after Anakin Solo dies, his sister gets so angry she just magically uses Force lightening at an attempt to fry the warriors in a adjoining hallway. She didn't learn it, it just came to her and she let loose.

Antares Navaar
01-29-2012, 02:50 AM
Don't quote me on this, but I believe the reason Darth Maul /didn't/ use much of the force at all, outwardly (push, lightning, grip, etc) was because he was using it to enhance his speed and agility, to put more into his combat.

Silent Descent
04-22-2013, 11:22 PM
He is more of a swordsman than force user.

forty73
05-02-2013, 01:53 AM
well, I was not able to read the full story but I knew that Darth Maul is just a swordsman.