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Astrotoy7
09-03-2008, 05:04 AM
Its a shame that most peoples exposure to these words are in English or other Latin derivatives, which are remarkably poor at capturing the emotion and gravitas of many of the ancient persian languages. eg. reading the Kuran in anything other than arabic is a waste of time. (sucks if you dont know arabic though!)

This one is very interesting...

In Aramaic. phonetic approximation of course
"Eloi. Eloi. Lama Sabatchthani?"
("My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?")

This very line epitomises the difference between the Christian and Islamic perception of Jesus. Jesus(Hazreti Isah) is also a beloved prophet in Islam. It is unfortunate that many Christians are unaware of the special place he has Islamic teaching. Even more perplexing that many get upset at this fact.

ah well.. Ignorance is the price of only opening the books youve been told to open...

mtfbwya

Jae Onasi
09-03-2008, 01:11 PM
Split from Favorite Bible Verses (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=191823), since I think it deserves its own topic. Astro, if you would prefer a different title to this thread, please let me know and I'll be happy to change it.

Corinthian
09-03-2008, 01:28 PM
Of course, there's a pretty big difference between 'Beloved Prophet' and 'Son of God'.

Jae Onasi
09-03-2008, 01:29 PM
So that would not be a common theme, then, Corinthian. ;)

jonathan7
09-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Its a shame that most peoples exposure to these words are in English or other Latin derivatives, which are remarkably poor at capturing the emotion and gravitas of many of the ancient persian languages.

I would argue it would be a poor truth indeed, if it couldn't be translated into a ready form for the different languages of the world.

eg. reading the Kuran in anything other than arabic is a waste of time. (sucks if you dont know arabic though!)

That is exactly the answer I get when I ask a awkward question of many of my Muslim friends - it was indeed subtle of God to learn Arabic - and not to have learned it better, I dare say.

This one is very interesting...

In Aramaic. phonetic approximation of course
"Eloi. Eloi. Lama Sabatchthani?"
("My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?")

This very line epitomises the difference between the Christian and Islamic perception of Jesus. Jesus(Hazreti Isah) is also a beloved prophet in Islam. It is unfortunate that many Christians are unaware of the special place he has Islamic teaching. Even more perplexing that many get upset at this fact.

I assure you a lot more Muslims get upset over Christians thinking Christ was part God, that Christians being upset over a Muslim conception of Jesus. Indeed, I can't remember the last time Christians took to the streets to burn flags of countries who had 'offended' Jesus.

Though I am most amused of the status Muhammad is afforded, considering he didn't think humans should be elevated to a God-like status - which ironically is what many Muslims do with regards him.

I also fail to see why it matters if Christians are aware of the place Jesus is awarded in Islam, considering so many Muslims just get told what to think of their Holy book by their teachers.

ah well.. Ignorance is the price of only opening the books youve been told to open...

Firstly a rather arrogant presumption on your part, for the reccord I have read the entire Qur’ān.

I would just note that at least in Western countries individuals have the option of opening the Qur’ān without being imprisoned or worse.

Anyway, onto common themes...

There is of course the heritage back to Abraham and indeed, I am quite amused at the animosity between Jews and Muslims considering how similar both their religions are. It would seem to me from Muhammad impression of Christianity he met a rather funny sect of it.

Anyways, Christianity and Islam have really been entwined since the Crusades - its a shame what those Violent wars did, the Arab world at the beginning was the centre of world culture - but I think today's Islamic Terrorists could trace their lineage back to the Crusades...

Further similarities depend on the Sura you refer to in the Qur’ān as they do, at least to me seem to change over the course of the book. I would say that some of my Muslim friends really love God, and trust in him for their salvation - what happens to them I don't know.

My 2 cents...

Astrotoy7
09-04-2008, 08:55 AM
@Jae...Leave the thread title as it is... looking for commonality is interesting ;)

But, the Crusades were indeed the crucible which forged the modern dynamic between the two religions. It is an unfortunate commonality indeed !

mtfbwya

Jae Onasi
09-04-2008, 10:31 AM
Well, Abraham is certainly common to both religions. Jesus and Mary are both common to the religions, but their treatment of these two figures are quite different, but I'd love to hear how Muslims feel about Jesus.

Achilles
09-04-2008, 02:32 PM
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam) is some starter info.

jawathehutt
09-04-2008, 04:23 PM
The false idea that God/Allah wants believers of Islam/Christianity to die horrible deaths at the hands of Christians/Muslims seems to be a common theme amongst overly vocal and angry extremists of both religions.

jonathan7
09-04-2008, 06:25 PM
The false idea that God/Allah wants believers of Islam/Christianity to die horrible deaths at the hands of Christians/Muslims seems to be a common theme amongst overly vocal and angry extremists of both religions.

While I agree with the sentiments, and how Fundamentalist's should be countered, please could you present any evidence of extremist Christians harming/threatening Muslims?

Achilles
09-04-2008, 06:28 PM
Besides the Crusades? :D

jonathan7
09-04-2008, 06:29 PM
Besides the Crusades? :D

To clarify I was more thinking recent times ;)

I have some concerns over some Christians, but at this time I can't really recall anything equivalent to what radical Islam has at the table today.

El Sitherino
09-04-2008, 06:43 PM
I'll simply have to tell you that one can easily be solved by stepping in or around the Gaza strip.

Achilles
09-04-2008, 06:49 PM
To clarify I was more thinking recent times ;)

I have some concerns over some Christians, but at this time I can't really recall anything equivalent to what radical Islam has at the table today.I think it would be difficult for me to speak with confidence regarding the perceptions of others (and I really don't want to base an argument on anecdotes), but I think if you wanted to find the answer to your question you'll need to do 2 things:

1) acknowledge that how you view certain acts as a christian is going to be viewed differently than by those that are muslim and

2) ask some muslims.

For instance: consider that the what "radical islam" has "put on the table" might be in response to something that they perceive as "christian extremism". What you view as unprovoked might seen as self-defense by others and vice versa.

jonathan7
09-04-2008, 07:21 PM
I think it would be difficult for me to speak with confidence regarding the perceptions of others (and I really don't want to base an argument on anecdotes), but I think if you wanted to find the answer to your question you'll need to do 2 things:

1) acknowledge that how you view certain acts as a christian is going to be viewed differently than by those that are muslim and

The blowing up of innocent people is wrong regardless of what ever your cause or supposed provication. I apply this to Northern Ireland, Afghanistan, or elsewhere - attacks on military personnel are not terrorism in my book - attacks on civilians and their infrastructure is (take note Israel).

2) ask some muslims.

For instance: consider that the what "radical islam" has "put on the table" might be in response to something that they perceive as "christian extremism". What you view as unprovoked might seen as self-defense by others and vice versa.[/QUOTE]

Greatly varies depending on my friend; I agree you my position stringently - which is pretty much universal - blowing up Civilians a la 7/7 and Madrid Bombings is wrong. If they have a gripe with a Government/Military attack either of those - but not civilians.

Achilles
09-04-2008, 07:39 PM
The blowing up of innocent people is wrong regardless of what ever your cause or supposed provication.

If they have a gripe with a Government/Military attack either of those - but not civilians. Right. But what if we did it first (or more importantly, what if they perceive us as having done it first)? Are we then innocent victims or provocateurs?

If they see or governments as being responsible for attacks against their civilians, then does it seem reasonable that they would feel justified in attacking ours (I'm not promoting "eye for an eye" here)?

jonathan7
09-04-2008, 07:44 PM
Right. But what if we did it first (or more importantly, what if they perceive us as having done it first)? Are we then innocent victims or provocateurs?

I wasn't suggesting that we (the West I presume in this case) were necessarily innocent - we have a great deal of blood on our hands - but my point stands for both sides, you may not from my very definition, in say Iraq the 'Allies' are guilty of terrorism.

If they see or governments as being responsible for attacks against their civilians, then does it seem reasonable that they would feel justified in attacking ours (I'm not promoting "eye for an eye" here)?

I'd say see above - attacks on civilians, are unacceptable whoever you are.

Achilles
09-04-2008, 07:55 PM
I don't think we're in disagreement on the argument that you're presenting. Yes, I agree that attacking civilians is wrong.

Unfortunately, I think that it's a non sequitur in the context of the discussion we're having. Yes, it's wrong, but the original question seemed to be "what have we done to deserve this?". We can't shoot first and then chastise the other party for not being "the bigger person" (I especially have difficulty with this due to differences in economic and military status, etc).

El Sitherino
09-04-2008, 07:59 PM
I'd say see above - attacks on civilians, are unacceptable whoever you are.

Cultural conflict. Many people on both sides of the fight are more than willing to die and are happy to die in the fight.

Martyrdom I hear is huge in the Semitic faiths.