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Yar-El
09-28-2008, 12:24 PM
Very Sensitive Issue: What If Obama Loses?
Newsweek has posted an article that is sensititive in nature. Some people believe that Obama will win for sure; however, they don't see that we are split fifty-fifty. A growing concern is how will the African-American community react if Obama loses. Some feel that if he does lose it will be because the election was stolen. This is a serious and sensitive issue.

What If Obama Loses? (http://www.newsweek.com/id/161214)
African-Americans thought he had no chance—then they started to believe. Now they fear defeat.

What is everyone's thoughts?

El Sitherino
09-28-2008, 01:25 PM
What is everyone's thoughts?

My thoughts include:
A. What the **** does being black have to do with it?
B. Elections aren't stolen, they're pre-determined.
C. If Barack Obama loses and I'm correct about McCain, I'll leave the country for a better place to practice the lifestyle I wish to.

Astor
09-28-2008, 01:44 PM
You do know that both sides fear defeat, right?

Rev7
09-28-2008, 01:59 PM
Race doesn't matter

Inyri
09-28-2008, 02:15 PM
I'm sure race does matter to a lot of people. It shouldn't, but thus is the world we live in.

Litofsky
09-28-2008, 02:16 PM
I pose your question to you: what if McCain loses? The answer: Obama will become the next President of the United States. Simple as that.

Now, if you're asking about the effects and such if Obama looses, please specify.

Astor
09-28-2008, 02:27 PM
I'm sure race does matter to a lot of people. It shouldn't, but thus is the world we live in.

Apparently a lot of people in the South weren't voting for the Democrats because of the race of their candidate. They seem to forget that we're all one race, though.

Inyri
09-28-2008, 02:28 PM
I think you're confusing 'race' and 'species.' It's going to be a long while yet before the human race evolves enough to set aside racial backgrounds.

SW01
09-28-2008, 02:32 PM
It is quite disturbing that a democratic election is comin close to being a 'race' war...

If Obama loses the election, then it simply means that the democrats didn't have enough support. Nothing more. People ought to remember just how close run this thing is so far - no one can predict how it's going to go in six weeks time. Given that America is composed of two parties, to me that shows that both have managed to gain the entire support of their parties.

If a sizable percentage of Democrats were deciding on an issue so petty and irrelevant as 'race', it would have been much more obvious in polls, long before now.

Yar-El
09-28-2008, 04:52 PM
I'm guessing from the responses that Newsweek is full of hot air. Media groups like to create divisions when there are none. I agree with the mess of you. Someone's ethnic background is not important. Its all about substance.

If Obama looses the election, it is caused by his inability to connect with the voters.

EnderWiggin
09-28-2008, 04:53 PM
If a sizable percentage of Democrats were deciding on an issue so petty and irrelevant as 'race', it would have been much more obvious in polls, long before now.

There is a sizable percentage of Americans deciding by way of race. It shouldn't be so, but it is.


I fear you're a bit in the dark here.

_EW_

Inyri
09-28-2008, 05:04 PM
I'm sure it evens out a bit because a lot of people are voting for him based on race as well.

HIGH ON PIE 14
09-28-2008, 05:59 PM
Well, if he loses soley because of race (which is what I think the question meant) that would be a terrible day for the U.S. African Americans have worked hard for equal treatment, and seeing one shot down for the presidency just because of race would be terrible. I doubt that this will happen though.

First, the economic situation gave Obama some big points close to election day, something that will be hard for McCain to make up. Also, as Inyri said, the race facotor probably evens out.

Even if Obama loses, I doubt it will be because of race. It will be because the other candidate earned more electoral points (or cheated for them) as the case may be. And so what if people in the south do not go for Obama? The republicans generally win those states anyway, so its not really a loss.

~HOP

Corinthian
09-28-2008, 06:41 PM
Well, if Obama loses, I'll have my faith reassured, I'll do a little dance, and I might even throw a party. Or I'll just find an Obama Chatroom, wait until someone comments that he only lost because of being 1/2 black, and then laugh at them.

SW01
09-28-2008, 07:10 PM
There is a sizable percentage of Americans deciding by way of race. It shouldn't be so, but it is.


I fear you're a bit in the dark here.

_EW_

I can't claim to know all about it, I merely meant that it is my percpetion that with the race for President as close as it is, it doesn't seem to have made a real impact with Democrat voters. As you say, it is shameful that such a thing should be a deciding factor in anyone's mind.

mimartin
09-28-2008, 07:35 PM
I'm sure race does matter to a lot of people. It shouldn't, but thus is the world we live in.

QFT

I'm in the South, while most of my family is Republican; a few are yellow dog Democrats. It saddens me, but most of these are determined to vote for McCain now. It has nothing to do with anything, but the color of Obama’s skin. My mother and stepfather were among this group (something I would have never guessed because I was taught to look at the real person and not outward appearances). However, after both choice running mates, the conventions and the first debate my parents are leaning strongly towards Obama.

While I think race will be an issue with some voter on both sides, I don’t think it will be the deciding factor. Americans vote with their pocketbooks. If the economy was going well then race, national security and experience would matter. In this elects, with the current problems with the economy, the deciding factor IMO will be who will handle the economy better.

Oh, if Obama loses I will pray every night for John McCain’s health. I may not like the idea of McSame as President, but Palin actually scares me. That and I will start working on Hilary in 2012. :D

Q
09-28-2008, 08:38 PM
If Barack Obama loses and I'm correct about McCain, I'll leave the country for a better place to practice the lifestyle I wish to.Careful, Sithy. You're starting to sound like those Hollywood flakes that threaten this same BS every time a Republican has a chance at the presidency...










...and then never bother to follow through. :(




@mimartin: You're more afraid of Palin than Hilary?! Something does not compute here. :confused:

Achilles
09-28-2008, 08:42 PM
That and I will start working on Obama in 2012. :DFixed

@Qliveur: I'll take selfish and opportunistic over willfully ignorant and incompetent any day.

Q
09-28-2008, 08:44 PM
Agreed. I'd take Obama over Hilary any day.

HIGH ON PIE 14
09-28-2008, 10:25 PM
You're more afraid of Palin than Hilary?! Something does not compute here. :confused:

Indeed.

I'd take Obama over Hillary any day as well.

~HOP

mimartin
09-28-2008, 10:34 PM
@mimartin: You're more afraid of Palin than Hilary?! Something does not compute here. :confused: As President Yes, I'm more afraid of Palin than Hilary.

If we are taking about going out on a date, then I'm more afraid of Hilary. :xp:

Q
09-28-2008, 10:40 PM
^^^
:rofl:

Excellent. :D

@Qliveur: I'll take selfish and opportunistic over willfully ignorant and incompetent any day.
Normally I would agree with you but that woman has aspirations of dictatorship if I've ever seen them. Don't we have enough of that right now?

HIGH ON PIE 14
09-28-2008, 11:01 PM
As President Yes, I'm more afraid of Palin than Hilary.

If we are taking about going out on a date, then I'm more afraid of Hilary. :xp:

:lol: :xp:

Just brilliant. I tend to agree with Qliveur about Hillary though...she would do it if she thought she could get away with it. Oh, imagine poor Bill having to actually live with her. *shudders*

~HOP

~HOP

Jae Onasi
09-28-2008, 11:16 PM
Many of you are not old enough to remember the Rodney King incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King) and the LA '92 riots, and what happened to Reginald Denny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Oliver_Denny). I lived in Ohio at the time, and I can tell you race anxiety went up tremendously, black and white both even there.

We live in WI, and the race divide is still there, like it or not. If Obama loses by a definitive margin, I think we'll be OK. If Obama wins it won't be an issue. If Obama loses and the election is contested the way the 2000 election was, I think there might well be some race riots in the state(s) where the votes are contested, and it does concern me as I live in a swing state right now.

Just brilliant. I tend to agree with Qliveur about Hillary though...she would do it if she thought she could get away with it. Oh, imagine poor Bill having to actually live with her. *shudders*

I find the blatant sexism offensive. We don't joke about the men like this, I'd appreciate it if you all gave the women the same respect. And here we're talking about how we shouldn't be racist. :roleyess:

Achilles
09-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Why does not liking Hillary because of her demeanor constitute "blatant sexism"?

Web Rider
09-29-2008, 12:32 AM
I find the blatant sexism offensive. We don't joke about the men like this, I'd appreciate it if you all gave the women the same respect. And here we're talking about how we shouldn't be racist. :roleyess:

You know that's not true. I hear women "joke" like that about men all the time. Heck, people make the same comparason in reverse where they feel sorry for Hillary having to put up with him for some reason. It's generally considered PC to make such comments about men too.

Tommycat
09-29-2008, 01:42 AM
I agree with Jae on this one. If it's a contested race even close to how contested the 2000 election was, we may see "race" riots. While we have grown more tolerant of other ethnicities(I dislike the term "race") there is a level of racism in many people out there(sadly I seem to see it a lot now that I'm dating again). This could be the spark that triggers the powderkeg we're sitting on. Of course Obama losing isn't the only thing that could trigger it. If he wins and some racist b7 decides to take it apon himself to asassinate him that could trigger a backlash against all caucasians.

JediMaster12
09-29-2008, 03:27 PM
I think you're confusing 'race' and 'species.' It's going to be a long while yet before the human race evolves enough to set aside racial backgrounds.
Inyri, race is a social construct. It is not a biological term or anything like that.

Tommycat: I prefer ethnicities myself. An old rule of thumb is that race deals with physical attributes but ethnicity deals with geography. Race is a social construct developed by those in positions of power to subjugate the minority and justify it.

As to the actual question, I know that if Obama loses the election my mother would probably cheer the oudest in the streets. you know for someone who professes equality, she sure doesn't act like it since she insists that Obama is a Muslim and she "don't want no Muslim for president." I'm in a mind to point out that she's as bad as those Republicans who say that sure everyone can go college but you have to be rich and white or something like that. Of course I won't do that since she's my mother and I pretty much never discuss with her or my granpa over matters like that.

My mother recently sent me an email about white privilege in relation to the upcoming elections. In it was the attachment for the blog regarding white privilege and some examples. I'll post the link.

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/this-your-nation-white-privilege

Inyri
09-29-2008, 03:28 PM
Inyri, race is a social construct. It is not a biological term or anything like that.Actually it is a biological term: clickie and educate yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology))

JediMaster12
09-29-2008, 03:37 PM
Actually it is a biological term: clickie and educate yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology))
From a social science perspective it is a social construct and I have doubts in trusting an entry from a wiki page. ;)

Web Rider: Does being PC mean making comments such as those you were discussing mean that you have to appear to be snob? Frankly this exchange of insults is petty and not essential to the issues the US is facing.

Inyri
09-29-2008, 03:38 PM
From a social science perspective it is a social construct and I have doubts in trusting an entry from a wiki page. ;)I trust my biology degree that says the wiki page is accurate. And just because you looked at it from a social perspective doesn't mean it isn't a biological term. Please do some research before you decide to nitpick semantics.

Web Rider
09-29-2008, 04:12 PM
Web Rider: Does being PC mean making comments such as those you were discussing mean that you have to appear to be snob? Frankly this exchange of insults is petty and not essential to the issues the US is facing.

Of course they're not essential to the issues, what bugged me is that Jae talked about women like they never say those sorts of things about men. And that's simply not true, I don't like the jokes regardless of what side they're coming from, but it's unfair, and downright incorrect to say or imply that women don't do it.

IMO, if Obama loses there will only be race riots if certain electorates repeated some of their practices of keeping people out of the polls. And they might very well be aware of this and attempt to correct it to keep themselves from harm.

Me personally, I don't think I can stomach another 4 years of this country doing the whole Bush Doctrine thing. I'm not particularly fond of any other country in particular to move to, but I don't think I'd have much fondness for this one left with another 4 years of Bushness.

Jae Onasi
09-29-2008, 04:51 PM
Race, ethnicity, whatever. Wave your degrees around in PMs if you need, but the topic is what would happen if Obama loses. Please stay on topic.

As for the sexism discussion, yes men and women talk that way. However, I prefer not to deal with the boy's locker room 'OMG Palin is teh HAWT', especially in a thread that's trying to deal with racism issues.

If Obama got assassinated, I think we would also see riots, unless Biden was able to rally enough of the black leadership to quell any violence.

mimartin
09-29-2008, 05:32 PM
If Obama got assassinated, I think we would also see riots, unless Biden was able to rally enough of the black leadership to quell any violence. I think it all depends on who was behind the assassination. If the shooter was killed and turned out to be a terrorist, I doubt there would be riots. There may be retaliation against the innocent American-Muslim population, but I doubt full scale riots. Now if Dick Cheney invites Obama hunting...:xp:

If the election turns out like the 2000 election then I do see riots. If the election were decided again by the United States Supreme Court instead of the Electoral College then I will be out there rioting with the masses. So, count one old white Scott/Irish/Cherokee among the rabble.

Achilles
09-29-2008, 09:18 PM
However, I prefer not to deal with the boy's locker room 'OMG Palin is teh HAWT', especially in a thread that's trying to deal with racism issues.The "hawt" comments didn't begin until after you accused us of being sexist, so I still don't understand how you came to the conclusion that we were being sexist in the first place. Since you did use a broad brush to label quite a few people, I don't think it unreasonable to expect an explanation here (or you could withdraw the comment). Thanks for your attention.

Web Rider
09-29-2008, 09:22 PM
The "hawt" comments didn't begin until after you accused us of being sexist, so I still don't understand how you came to the conclusion that we were being sexist in the first place. Since you did use a broad brush to label quite a few people, I don't think it unreasonable to expect an explanation here (or you could withdraw the comment). Thanks for your attention.

I have to agree that this was my summation as well, though I was planning to let the issue drop, since it hasn't been, I suppose I'll speak up that yeah, those statements did not occur, or did not occur until after your post. A quick review of those posts does not lead me to find any comments beyond posters saying they were more or less afraid of Hillary than Palin.

Yar-El
09-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Why does not liking Hillary because of her demeanor constitute "blatant sexism"?

Achilles - Here is your answer:
As President Yes, I'm more afraid of Palin than Hilary.

If we are taking about going out on a date, then I'm more afraid of Hilary. :xp:
Yes, this is a sexist comment. Jae was commenting on mimartin's statement, and the others who replied in a similar fashion. :tsk: :tsk:

As for the topic at hand, Obama's loss would change the United States. People would riot regardless about the marginal difference. If the differences are larger, the riots will be smaller and isolated. - If the difference is smaller in points, the riots will be larger and more worldly.

Det. Bart Lasiter
09-29-2008, 11:34 PM
Yes, this is a sexist comment. Jae was commenting on mimartin's statement, and the others who replied in a similar fashion. :tsk: :tsk:She was responding to HOP's comment:

Just brilliant. I tend to agree with Qliveur about Hillary though...she would do it if she thought she could get away with it. Oh, imagine poor Bill having to actually live with her. *shudders*

Which wasn't actually sexist since he'd be the first First Man (or whatever he'd be referred to) ever and Hillary's Hillary, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near her either, especially if I was married to her because of our political careers. Her calling someone out about sexism in a joking manner (which was how I interpreted his comment) is especially amusing since I've seen her post jokes about the stereotypical male who is obsessed with sex both here and on Skype.

mimartin
09-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Yes, this is a sexist comment. Jae was commenting on mimartin's statement, and the others who replied in a similar fashion. :tsk: :tsk:

My comment was a joke and nothing more. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I could care less if I am labeled a sexist by anyone on this forum. However, my intention was merely to make a joke, not to offend anyone. If Jae finds my comment offensive then she is within her rights as a Moderator to delete the post. Even though I cannot see how it violates any forum rule, I understand a Moderator can delete a post at their own discretion.

I will not apologize for the post, as I see nothing sexist about it. The way I judge that is, I would not be embarrassed if my mother, stepmother or grandmothers read it. I regret that if anyone found it offensive, but that was not how it was intended.

Corinthian
09-30-2008, 12:15 AM
Isn't it pretty racist to assume that if Obama loses the race, there will be race riots? Do you believe that the Black Community is that...temperamental, Yar-El?

Yar-El
09-30-2008, 12:30 AM
Isn't it pretty racist to assume that if Obama loses the race, there will be race riots? Do you believe that the Black Community is that...temperamental, Yar-El? People who think Obama's loss is a step back for the African-American community may riot. I wasn't pointing to a specific social or ethnic group. My comment was not clear, and I apologize for not being specific.

Web Rider -
Whites? European-American thank you. Lol...

Web Rider
09-30-2008, 12:32 AM
Isn't it pretty racist to assume that if Obama loses the race, there will be race riots? Do you believe that the Black Community is that...temperamental, Yar-El?

Actually, I've been thinking that too about a number of posts here saying there will be race riots if Obama isn't elected by a slim margin. I'm fairly certain that if we had another Florida+Supreme Court fiasco like we did in 2000, there's be riots by people of every race. And considering that most of the country is white, and a lot of them support Obama, I'd think whites would make up a good proportion of the rioters, Latino's probably would too.

I think we'd see a fairly accurate representation of america's demographics if there are riots. From all I've read, the black community does not see Obama as their champion. Some don't support him at all.

Corinthian
09-30-2008, 12:42 AM
So you're not saying that blacks are temperamental loons who will blow up like a powder keg if they don't get their way, you're saying that Liberals in general are like that? I mean, you aren't saying that there'll be rioting if McCain loses, so obviously, whatever the catalyst for the Rioting would be, it's on the Democrat's side.

mimartin
09-30-2008, 12:50 AM
Well this loon will be marching in the streets if Obama wins or if McCain wins if the election is decided by the courts and not the Electoral College. I may lean more to the liberal side on social issues, but primarily I am a supporter of my country.

Web Rider
09-30-2008, 12:51 AM
Web Rider -
Whites? European-American thank you. Lol...

Pfff, that's giving all of Europe credit for my heritage. I'm anglo-saxon thank you.

edit: Caucasian would also have been acceptable.

And because of the way the word applies, Latino works as well. :xp:

Yar-El
09-30-2008, 12:59 AM
Pfff, that's giving all of Europe credit for my heritage. I'm anglo-saxon thank you.

edit: Caucasian would also have been acceptable.

And because of the way the word applies, Latino works as well. :xp:
:xp: Italian-American, Latino-America, European-American, etc... :lol: Who do we blame for the whole politically correct movement? :lol:

So you're not saying that blacks are temperamental loons who will blow up like a powder keg if they don't get their way, you're saying that Liberals in general are like that? I mean, you aren't saying that there'll be rioting if McCain loses, so obviously, whatever the catalyst for the Rioting would be, it's on the Democrat's side. I was pretty clear in my post, so I'm not going to comment any further. We could thin out what I said forever.

Corinthian
09-30-2008, 01:15 AM
Whatever. I just don't buy into the whole 'riot' thing. I think that's just fearmongering. It carries an undertone of a threat - Vote Obama, or you will regret it when the rioting starts. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Arcesious
09-30-2008, 01:41 AM
What if?

If it happens, it happens. I will do everything in my power to outsmart the clever economics of this unfair, partisan-ruled country if I have to though. I'd rather live than struggle to survive... Now all I need to do first is learn all the exact details on how this economy works so that I can manage my finances intelligently...

Jae Onasi
09-30-2008, 01:47 AM
From all I've read, the black community does not see Obama as their champion.
An estimated 90 to 95% of African-Americans eligible to vote are, according to some polls, expected to vote for Obama. I think it's pretty safe to say Obama's their man.

I'm Anglo-Lithuanian-Scotch-Swiss-Swede-French-Irish-German-American Indian-American. I would like to be addressed in this manner rather than 'white'. That is all.

Now all I need to do first is learn all the exact details on how this economy works so that I can manage my finances intelligently...It's very simple. Don't spend more than you earn.

GarfieldJL
10-01-2008, 07:15 PM
People who think Obama's loss is a step back for the African-American community may riot. I wasn't pointing to a specific social or ethnic group. My comment was not clear, and I apologize for not being specific.

Web Rider -
Whites? European-American thank you. Lol...

I don't really give if people riot or not, I don't want a left wing lunatic with ties to terrorists, radicals, and extremists to be President of the United States.

Right now I'd rather see Hillary in the White House over Obama.

EnderWiggin
10-01-2008, 08:16 PM
I don't really give if people riot or not, I don't want a left wing lunatic with ties to terrorists, radicals, and extremists to be President of the United States.

Right now I'd rather see Hillary in the White House over Obama.

Wow. Way to flame Obama & the democrats without making a factual statement whatsoever.

_EW_

GarfieldJL
10-01-2008, 11:14 PM
Wow. Way to flame Obama & the democrats without making a factual statement whatsoever.

_EW_

Oh but it is true, does the name of William Ayers ring a bell, his state senate campaign started in this guy's home.

Or how about the organization of ACORN.

So maybe I am flaming the Democrats and Obama, I don't really care cause it's still true.

Terrorist Connections:
William Ayers + Wife

Radical Connections
Reverend Wright - Pastor for 20 years
Pastor Flagur (sp?)


I'm sure people can name others but but those are the first three I can list off the top of my head.

El Sitherino
10-01-2008, 11:43 PM
Oh but it is true, does the name of William Ayers ring a bell, his state senate campaign started in this guy's home.

I'm friends with a man that killed 2 other men with his bare hands outside a bar and did some of my schoolwork there. Does that make me and my education tainted?

Or how about the organization of ACORN.

Cutest activist group name ever

So maybe I am flaming the Democrats and Obama, I don't really care cause it's still true.


Hi, I live in America where we respect people and their culture. Where do you live? In your country is it customary to make wild correlations? I was always raised with the motto "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all", I think generally it means don't have ill intent in your spoken words.

Plus I'm like, this moderator type thing on this forum-majiggy. Here we have rules that claim no flaming, so if your lack of concern shows to members you may find your stay here a bit rocky.


Terrorist Connections:
William Ayers + Wife

I'm on the terrorist watch list. Plus I know people that were '60's activists too. I'm pretty sure a lot of people do.


Radical Connections
Reverend Wright - Pastor for 20 years

I believe he has stated that he does not share the sentiments of his former pastor. I can tell you the same, even though mine was a good mentor to me as well when I was into the Christianity thing.


I'm sure people can name others but but those are the first three I can list off the top of my head.
I'm sure we can criticize McCain's friends too, but that doesn't really do much except distract people from the real issues.

Jae Onasi
10-01-2008, 11:48 PM
I'm friends with a man that killed 2 other men with his bare hands outside a bar and did some of my schoolwork there. Does that make me and my education tainted?Not unless you plan on running for POTUS. :xp:

GarfieldJL
10-02-2008, 11:10 AM
I'm friends with a man that killed 2 other men with his bare hands outside a bar and did some of my schoolwork there. Does that make me and my education tainted?


Not really, because to my knowledge you haven't lied about your associations to that guy. Furthermore, all Obama's radical associations fit together to form a picture that isn't pretty.

Everyone has at least one bad association in their life, but if you have a pattern of bad associations over the course of your lifetime all of whom have similar viewpoints, would it be a stretch to say that you probably believe what they believe.


Cutest activist group name ever


They aren't a cute organization, ACORN has been in trouble in several states for voter fraud, because they have a history of registering people, pets, etc. that aren't elligible to vote. (Illegal Aliens, convicted felons, dead people, people that don't even exist, dogs, cats, etc.)


Hi, I live in America where we respect people and their culture. Where do you live? In your country is it customary to make wild correlations? I was always raised with the motto "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all", I think generally it means don't have ill intent in your spoken words.

Plus I'm like, this moderator type thing on this forum-majiggy. Here we have rules that claim no flaming, so if your lack of concern shows to members you may find your stay here a bit rocky.


But I'm not making any wild statements. For the record I'm not referring to all Democrats, just the current Democrat Presidential Candidate and the Leadership of the DNC.
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-noyes/2008/09/23/barack-obama-bill-ayers-stanley-kurtz-makes-connection

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426581,00.html

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2008/09/why_did_a_musli.php

http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/hinzsight_story/david_hinz/2008/09/05/another_radical_khalid_abdullah_tariq_al_mansour_s ponsored_barack_obama_into_harvard_law_s

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1511



I'm on the terrorist watch list. Plus I know people that were '60's activists too. I'm pretty sure a lot of people do.


But you are honest about your association though Obama was not, and it doesn't sound like you have a pattern of them.


I believe he has stated that he does not share the sentiments of his former pastor. I can tell you the same, even though mine was a good mentor to me as well when I was into the Christianity thing.


Uh you may want to look again at what he said, he changed his position several times on it.


I'm sure we can criticize McCain's friends too, but that doesn't really do much except distract people from the real issues.

I don't think McCain is personal friends with someone that says God d*** America!

Tommycat
10-03-2008, 02:35 AM
I don't think McCain is personal friends with someone that says
God d*** America
Actually Garfield, I would almost be willing to bet he is. He's a former POW, he may have one or two friends that have said that at some point. Being in the military during the Vietnam conflict you are bound to end up with friends that may not be happy with the government. I'm friends with several people who have different views than myself. In some cases VERY different views. I'm even friends with people that like Jane Fonda too.

GarfieldJL
10-03-2008, 03:41 PM
Actually Garfield, I would almost be willing to bet he is. He's a former POW, he may have one or two friends that have said that at some point. Being in the military during the Vietnam conflict you are bound to end up with friends that may not be happy with the government. I'm friends with several people who have different views than myself. In some cases VERY different views. I'm even friends with people that like Jane Fonda too.

Let me rephrase that, McCain isn't friends with and had that same individual be his religious mentor and father figure for 20+ years.

And if you're talking about friends that had possibly been tortured and all that, that's a big difference from spewing it in a church in the United States.

Rogue Nine
10-07-2008, 08:09 PM
As of today, according to this website (http://www.270towin.com/simulation/), Obama doesn't look too shabby at all.

Litofsky
10-07-2008, 08:15 PM
This (http://www.electoral-vote.com/) site puts Obama at around the same place, but counts a few different states differently. In either case, I'd say that Obama has taken the lead, for the time being. I wonder how the debate tonight will affect the polls?

mimartin
10-07-2008, 08:24 PM
As of today, according to this website (http://www.270towin.com/simulation/), Obama doesn't look too shabby at all.
So can we change the thread title to What if McCain loses? :xp:
This (http://www.electoral-vote.com/) site puts Obama at around the same place, but counts a few different states differently. In either case, I'd say that Obama has taken the lead, for the time being. I wonder how the debate tonight will affect the polls?
The debate can change the landscape if there is a major mess up by either candidate, but overall as long as the Economy is going down the drain the incumbent party is in trouble.

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-07-2008, 09:03 PM
So can we change the thread title to What if McCain loses? :xp:White people get to be racist for a month without fear of reprisal, which includes one free saying of the n-word (variations such as "negro" do not count).

Nedak
10-07-2008, 09:44 PM
If Obama loses I will:

Step 1: Assume fetal position.

Step 2: Await an economic depression.

Step 3: Repeat step 1

Step 4: Laugh at anybody who voted for McCain.

Corinthian
10-07-2008, 10:09 PM
Impressive lack of intestinal fortitude.

Litofsky
10-07-2008, 10:12 PM
Impressive lack of intestinal fortitude.

I prefer to view it as the proper lack of faith in McCain. :p

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-07-2008, 10:21 PM
Impressive lack of intestinal fortitude.He is a rogue.

Bimmerman
10-09-2008, 05:09 AM
If Obama Wins, I'll be in Germany for school. If he loses, I may just stay in Germany afterwards. I have no desire to live here under four to eight more years of Republican idiocy and hypocrisy.

That, and Palin might be president...which scares the piss out of me. Eff that.

GarfieldJL
10-09-2008, 11:16 AM
If Obama loses I might actually drink an alcoholic drink for the first time to celebrate. Champaign anyone?

mattig89ch
10-09-2008, 11:56 AM
I have a swig with ya if he looses. I may have to try a beer if he wins.

Inyri
10-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Champaign anyone?Champaign's kind of a shabby town. Got some nice-looking cows, though.

I may have to try a beer if he wins.Stay away from that slop they call Budweiser or Miller and you'll be fine. For celebratory drinking I recommend a seasonal wheat (although avoid IPA's if you don't like bitter flavors) from a micro-brewery. It'll hit the spot! Mmm....

Totenkopf
10-09-2008, 04:43 PM
If Obama loses I suspect we'll get four more years of shrill lefties whining about how America is still racist and how they were cheated out of yet ANOTHER election. Let's hope the exit polls match the results this year so a bunch of partisan analysts don't assault us with the nonsequitur argument that such a difference proves that the election was stolen from their candidate. Regardless of who gets elected this cycle, they could prove to be a 1 term administration. We survived 4 years of malaise under Jimmy Carter (and 8 under Bush, to keep you lefties happy :D ), so I imagine we'll survive the next one too.

Inyri
10-09-2008, 04:45 PM
At the rate we're going we won't have to survive four years with a Republican president because we'll have a Democratic president.

Besides, it's not McCain I'm worried about. It's Palin. I was okay with McCain until he picked her for a running mate. I mean this isn't like 2004 where your options were Idiot #1 or Idiot #2. McCain's not a moron, he's just old and more prone to death, and he picked Idiot #3 to be his heir. >.>

Astor
10-09-2008, 04:46 PM
Let's hope the exit polls match the results this year so a bunch of partisan analysts don't assault us with the nonsequitur argument that such a difference proves that the election was stolen from their candidate.

It's a sad indictment when that seems to be the immediate response from any losing side in an election nowadays - that they couldn't possibly of lost without the opponents resorting to underhanded tactics...

Corinthian
10-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Of course we will. But that's alright, because the Race Card gets played so often, frankly, I don't think anyone really pays any attention to it anymore. Al Sharpton will make his typical spiel about how the Government just proved how much it hates the Black Man, and we'll get a few sycophants doing the head nod, and that will go on for the duration of McCain's administration.

Q
10-09-2008, 05:00 PM
What if Obama loses? Well, I guess the downward spiral of corruption and BS will continue unabated.




In other words, the exact same thing that will happen if he wins. :p

Totenkopf
10-09-2008, 05:02 PM
At the rate we're going we won't have to survive four years with a Republican president because we'll have a Democratic president.

Besides, it's not McCain I'm worried about. It's Palin. I was okay with McCain until he picked her for a running mate. I mean this isn't like 2004 where your options were Idiot #1 or Idiot #2. McCain's not a moron, he's just old and more prone to death, and he picked Idiot #3 to be his heir. >.>

Usual ad hominem toward her. Still, I'd never heard of her (except maybe once seeing her in a quick news interview) and would likely have picked someone else. Still, it's kind of ridiculous to resort to arguments like McCain is death prone (we all are). Further, as I recall, BO seems to think there are 57-58 states in the Union and Joe Biden said that FDR addressed the nation on national tv to calm people about the depression. There was no national tv at that time and FDR wasn't even president till 1932/3. So, who is the real idiot here afterall? 2 on one ticket or 1 (debatably) on the other? And to think Dan Quayle was excoriated over only adding a e to potato.... :rolleyes: Fact is, politicians are people who make gaffes and sometimes misstate facts. It doesn't make them idiots. Interviewers are notorious for leaving things on the editing floor that might reflect well on their "target" (nevermind cutting for time constraints).

Inyri
10-09-2008, 05:04 PM
Still, it's kind of ridiculous to resort to arguments like McCain is death prone (we all are)It certainly isn't ridiculous. We could all die any time, but most of us aren't quite as close to dying of old age as he is. Look at a picture of Clinton or Bush at their inauguration and then look at a picture of them now and see what the presidency does to you. I'm not certain McCain would survive that kind of radical aging.

Totenkopf
10-09-2008, 05:12 PM
Even after being shot, Reagan survived two terms. McCain's mother lives into her 90's. He may well be robust enough to survive one term intact, nevermind 2. Besides, given that some people might want to assassinate BO if he wins, maybe he should step down for the good of his country to avert a crisis should such a person/people succeed. Point is, the whole death argument is nothing more than "scare tactics", especially when wedded to the pov that SP is nothing more than basically a brain dead bimbo. Do you remember the old joke about DQ being GB's insurance policy?

Inyri
10-09-2008, 05:14 PM
The only thing that scares me is the idea that Palin has even a remote chance to be president. Because it is possible that McCain won't survive his term, whether you would like to admit it or not. Sure, Obama might not either for various reasons, but Biden doesn't scare the crap out of me like Palin does.

El Sitherino
10-09-2008, 05:17 PM
LOL Racism. What a card.

Yar-El
10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
The only thing that scares me is the idea that Palin has even a remote chance to be president. Because it is possible that McCain won't survive his term, whether you would like to admit it or not. Sure, Obama might not either for various reasons, but Biden doesn't scare the crap out of me like Palin does. What are the chances of another JFK, but in this day and age? Well, Bush did almost die over a pretzel. We would have been the laughing stock of the world.

Astor
10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Biden doesn't scare the crap out of me like Palin does.

She shoots living creatures for fun - she clearly thinks nothing of slaughtering animals, so someone with such a cavalier attitude to life (any life) worries me a lot.

Inyri
10-09-2008, 05:23 PM
Honestly if no one shot Bush I don't know that anyone will bother with Obama. >.>

Achilles
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
Obama didn't select Dick Cheney as his running mate.

"President Dick Cheney" was pretty much the ultimate life insurance policy for Bush.

ChAiNz.2da
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
Honestly if no one shot Bush I don't know that anyone will bother with Obama. >.>

2 words: President Cheney :whacked:

EDIT: :lol: damn, Achilles is reading my braaaiinz.. or maybe I'm reading his.. muwahahaha

Litofsky
10-09-2008, 05:27 PM
2 words: President Cheney :whacked:

Those two words are enough to make any assassin rethink his or her actions. I should think that the same goes for "President Palin." :xp:

Achilles
10-09-2008, 05:33 PM
I have it from reliable sources that if McCain is elected, Death has agreed to take a four year hiatus out of fear of Sarah Palin with a "nucular" football.

I, personally, would be more afraid of her Education Policy, but both are pretty frightening.

PS: @ChAiNz - sick minds think alike, no?

Yar-El
10-09-2008, 05:37 PM
I have it from reliable sources that if McCain is elected, Death has agreed to take a four year hiatus out of fear of Sarah Palin with a "nucular" football.

I, personally, would be more afraid of her Education Policy, but both are pretty frightening. :animelol:

Its three o'clock, the red phone rings, and a crisis starts to unfold. Palin replies to the caller, "Quick get the shotguns, the buck shots, and the horses." A slight pause lingures, and the other caller replies, "What does terrorism have to do with deer hunting?"

Its three o'clock, do you know where Palin's mind is? :giveup:

Brought to you by the NRA. "Because she didn't buy our type of bullets."

:lol:

KinchyB
10-09-2008, 06:55 PM
Very Sensitive Issue: What If Obama Loses?
African-Americans thought he had no chance—then they started to believe. Now they fear defeat.


I'm late to the party I know so please forgive...

To quote my family (who are african american), "There is no way an African American well be elected president, but I'm still going to vote for him." They honestly think that America isn't ready for a minority leader which kinda saddens me a bit as I disagree, but I'm a different generation.

So, IMO...he loses and expectations are met...he wins and it exceeds expectations.

I'm not even going to bother with the article as I consider it sensationalist journalism as they are trying to create an issue that doesn't really exist IMO.

Besides this is irrelevant... It will take a miracle for McCain to win. Obama has a 349 to 174 electoral lead (http://www.electoral-vote.com/)... I'm not worried. :)

Totenkopf
10-09-2008, 07:19 PM
2 words: President Cheney :whacked:

EDIT: :lol: damn, Achilles is reading my braaaiinz.. or maybe I'm reading his.. muwahahaha

What, Cheney's NOT the prez?!?! :doh: Was under the impression that Dick was the dark lord himself and Bush merely the figurehead. :D (sort of like he was in TX, according to mimartin)

So.....besides not being pro-choice/abortion and a republican, what do you people REALLY have vs SP? She didn't do as well as she should have in two hack interviews? She doesn't see the federal govt as the solution to life's problems? Mostly, the criticism/cheap shots here seem to be of the p diddy variety or merely just vague fear mongering. Just trying to understand what's really going on in people's heads here. Once again, though, FTR I think both tickets are less than desirable. So, please don't bother responding (anyone) to this question if you're going to just resort to tired old cliches like "she's an idiot" or something similiarly supercilious.

Inyri
10-09-2008, 07:22 PM
Is "she doesn't seem to know anything" supercilious? Because I'm sure the slang for that would be "she seems to be an idiot" which, unfortunately, is how I feel about her based on various statements, interviews, and debates.

Totenkopf
10-09-2008, 07:37 PM
What do you base that on? She obviously knows enough to run a state. Which particular statements do you refer to? Did you watch any other interviews besides Couric and Gibson? Or are you letting any internal bias get in the way? Actually watched the entire veep debate and conclude there was no clear winner on either side. Did she answer all the questions? No. But I'm used to politicains never answering direct questions with direct answers, from either side of the aisle. Or, as both also did, giving an answer that wasn't entirely correct. Nothing new there either. She, like Obama in the 1st debate, was given the edge by the pundits b/c both parties (BO & SP) survived w/o any major stumbling.

Now, I do agree with your earlier statement that debates between people of either side don't have to result in personal cheap shots and embittered feelings. Don't have a bf (that'd be gay, not a slam, just a fact), but don't have trouble relating to liberal women either. I don't often agree with them, but I don't go away hating them either b/c of it.

Astor
10-09-2008, 07:38 PM
I dislike her for several reasons, mainly the fact she said she didn't 'want to judge gay people' yet then voted against health benefits for them. I may have issues with that lifestyle, but I wouldn't treat people who follow it differently to others.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 10:39 AM
I dislike her for several reasons, mainly the fact she said she didn't 'want to judge gay people' yet then voted against health benefits for them. I may have issues with that lifestyle, but I wouldn't treat people who follow it differently to others.

Uh I've heard those stories by the mainstream media, however as people may have noticed the mainstream media has demonstrated that can't report even remotely be objective when it comes to Governor Palin putting it mildly.

She shoots living creatures for fun - she clearly thinks nothing of slaughtering animals, so someone with such a cavalier attitude to life (any life) worries me a lot.

Last I checked she eats the animals she shoots, it isn't just for fun, it's dinner. I know quite a few people whom are hunters that would take what you said a little personally.

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-10-2008, 02:51 PM
Uh I've heard those stories by the mainstream media, however as people may have noticed the mainstream media has demonstrated that can't report even remotely be objective when it comes to Governor Palin putting it mildly.Prove their statements wrong instead of just dismissing them because you think they're biased kthx.


Last I checked she eats the animals she shoots, it isn't just for fun, it's dinner. I know quite a few people whom are hunters that would take what you said a little personally.She doesn't live in the middle of nowhere anymore, she's the governor of ****ing Alaska. She doesn't need to go out and kill things, she does it for sport.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 02:58 PM
Prove their statements wrong instead of just dismissing them because you think they're biased kthx.

Uh huh, have you looked at the Reuter's photos that tried to make it look like she was a stripper or something...




She doesn't live in the middle of nowhere anymore, she's the governor of ****ing Alaska. She doesn't need to go out and kill things, she does it for sport.

Maybe she has a taste for moose and wants to make sure it is fresh, I also heard she apparently laid off the cook because she thought it was a waste of taxpayer money.

Astor
10-10-2008, 03:05 PM
Maybe she has a taste for moose and wants to make sure it is fresh, I also heard she apparently laid off the cook because she thought it was a waste of taxpayer money.

So she's never heard of a supermarket then?

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 03:09 PM
So she's never heard of a supermarket then?

Still I don't see what your problem is with her preferring to hunt over shopping at the supermarket. Least she has better aim than Cheney.


Again though I think the better question would be what happens if Obama loses and what happens if he wins.

Either way we're probably looking at a lot of anger, one side due to the fact of rampant fraud that has been discovered, the other would be accusing people of being racist.

Q
10-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Has anyone ever considered that hunters are simply part of the food chain and that hunting is actually part of responsible stewardship of the land? Without natural predators (which have been practically wiped out here in the states) hunters become essential because the populations of certain species such as deer grow to the point that there is not enough food to sustain them, especially through the winter.

So use some of your vaunted empathy for the animals in question, put yourself in the deer's hooves and ask yourself, "Would I rather be shot, or starve to death?"

To me, it's kind of a no-brainer. ;)

Achilles
10-10-2008, 03:27 PM
That would be all well and good except that she shoots "natural predators" from helicopters too :D

Again, not that any of this has anything to do with her ability (or lack thereof) to lead.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 03:33 PM
I'd rather a hunter be in the White House than a man that is tied to an organization that commits voter fraud.

When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN and his beginnings in Illinois as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights and education. Senator Obama said, "I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC7zm

On his own website no less.

Astor
10-10-2008, 03:42 PM
That quote doesn't have anything to do with voter fraud. And I don't understand why you have keep putting this stuff out at every opportunity.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 03:46 PM
That quote doesn't have anything to do with voter fraud. And I don't understand why you have keep putting this stuff out at every opportunity.

It does show that he's lieing about the depth of his ties to ACORN which is under investigation again for voter fraud.

...I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work."

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC7zm

Project Vote?

voter registration drive in Illinois?

ACORN being smack dab in the middle of it?


That's why if he wins there are going to be lawsuits and legal action taken against him, due to the fact of the voting being rigged.

If he loses there will be protests and riots and people will attack whites calling them racist.

Either why we're looking at a three-ring circus.