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JediMaster12
09-29-2008, 03:32 PM
I mentioned in another thread about white privilege and the effects on the elections. However I didn't want to risk going off topic and have decided to make a separate thread for discussion.

This was sent as an email to me and while I didn't read the blog, some of the examples are food for thought or maybe they are inflammatory to some. I am curious to see what others think of this.

Tim Wise is a regular visitor to the campus at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. He has spoken each year for the last four years at the annual White Privilege Conference sponsored by the sociology department and organized by my former colleague Abby Ferber. Over the past decade he has given at least three major speeches on our campus, and I've talked with him on a number of occasions. The following is one of his blogs and should not be used for anything but noncommercial, educational purposes

This is Your Nation on White Privilege By Tim Wise

September 13, 2008, 2:01 pm

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/this-your-nation-white-privilege


For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are constantly looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because “every family has challenges,” even as black and Latino families with similar “challenges” are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a “****in’ redneck,” like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll “kick their ****in' ass,” and talk about how you like to “shoot ****” for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don’t all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you’re “untested.”

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance because “if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it’s good enough for me,” and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the “under God” part wasn’t added until the 1950s--while believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.

White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto was “Alaska first,” and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she’s being disrespectful.

White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you’re being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college--you’re somehow being mean, or even sexist.

White privilege is being able to convince white women who don’t even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a “second look.”

White privilege is being able to fire people who didn’t support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.

White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who say the conflict in the Middle East is God’s punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you’re just a good church-going Christian, but if you’re black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you’re an extremist who probably hates America.

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a “trick question,” while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O’Reilly means you’re dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a “light” burden.

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters aren’t sure about that whole “change” thing. Ya know, it’s just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain…

White privilege is, in short, the problem.

Again any thoughts or opinions on this?

Inyri
09-29-2008, 03:36 PM
That quote you posted has nothing to do with white privilege -- it's simply anti-Palin and anti-Republican and is using this 'white privilege' concept as a convenient excuse to bash them.

I think bashing Republicans in this type of manner is just as racist as what the article claims. I'm a Democrat, by the way. :)

Q
09-29-2008, 03:57 PM
Again any thoughts or opinions on this?Other than pointing out that this is typical, inflammatory, left-wing hate-mongering propaganda, no. :roleyess:

Web Rider
09-29-2008, 04:03 PM
For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are constantly looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.
Perhaps if it wasn't an inherantly racist concept....

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because “every family has challenges,” even as black and Latino families with similar “challenges” are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.
Young white single mothers are quite often taken to par for these very things. This statement is also false since it uses an absolute term "everyone". Lots of people are still making noise about this Palin thing, and the reason we don't buy "White privilege" is because you're obviously ignoring reality in favor of a racist agenda.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a “****in’ redneck,” like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll “kick their ****in' ass,” and talk about how you like to “shoot ****” for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.
Honestly, white boys who talk like that are not looked at as responsible, all-american boys except by people who agree with them. And it's not a longshot to say there are people who agree with some of the bad things latino, black, white, chinese, what have you kids do and say all around the nation and world. There is not a universal definition of responsibility, if there was, you might have a point. Since there isn't, you're still just being racist.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.
Now, this is simply an attack on Palin, and equating Palin's actions to all American whites, which is really unfair because I am not so privileged to be able to do something like that just because of my skin color.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don’t all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you’re “untested.”
Again, this is just an attack on Palin and has nothing to do with white privilege, Palin is taken to bear for this all the time, and people do piss themselves with laughter.

White privilege is being able to say that you support the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance because “if it was good enough for the founding fathers, it’s good enough for me,” and not be immediately disqualified from holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800s and the “under God” part wasn’t added until the 1950s--while believing that reading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the Constitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requires it), is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.
yay, another Palin attack. You know some blacks agree with the "under god" thing too.

White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make people immediately scared of you.
I've met native american, latino, and black gun enthusiasts, and I haven't been scared of them any more than I have of my white gun enthusiast friends.

White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state to secede from the Union, and whose motto was “Alaska first,” and no one questions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black and your spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she’s being disrespectful.
Look ma! Another Palin attack! You know Tim, America isn't made out of Palin clones, if all white people supported her, there wouldn't even be a question as to who'd win the election.

White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and the work they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to child labor--and people think you’re being pithy and tough, but if you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college--you’re somehow being mean, or even sexist.
No, people get on her and McCain's case when they say that too. Tim, do you just ignore reality for fun or are you paid to do it, 'cause if you're getting paid, I can do it for less. Please let your boss know this.

White privilege is being able to convince white women who don’t even agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a “second look.”
Palin didn't convince them of anything. They were going to vote for Hillary just because she was a she. They weren't democrats, they weren't republicans, they're sexists. Just like how you're a racist.

White privilege is being able to fire people who didn’t support your political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means you must be corrupt.
Hello, whole scandal, investigation, Palin is not being let off the hook for this.

White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who say the conflict in the Middle East is God’s punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you’re just a good church-going Christian, but if you’re black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on black people, you’re an extremist who probably hates America.
Palin was taken to par on this as well, but people are tired of the whole "oh your church said something extremist!" garbage. Can't we just let it go all around? oh...right...apparently not. The irony Tim, is that if Palin was taken to par, you'd be out there with torches and pitchforks, but if Obama wasn't taken to par, and his pastor did say some extreme things at times, you wouldn't say a word. Ah, don't you love the smell of bias in the morning?

White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a “trick question,” while being black and merely refusing to give one-word answers to the queries of Bill O’Reilly means you’re dodging the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.
no, that's Palin being stupid, not white privilege.

White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a “light” burden.
McCain being a POW has relevance for a number of reasons, some positive to him, some negative. And, oh, what a surprise, palin can be racist too, hey! You two should make a club! Call it: "Racists against Racists."

And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters aren’t sure about that whole “change” thing. Ya know, it’s just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which is very concrete and certain…
Mmmm, no that's a McCain attack, well, at least it's not a Palin attack, and it has nothing to do with "white privilege".

White privilege is, in short, the problem.
No, the problem is racists.

This is what bugs me about "white privilege" is that it used to mean something, and now it's just an empty way for somebody with an agenda to attack all whites because a handful of them are like Palin or McCain. Or because they disagree with YOUR agenda. If I made up a term called "black privilege" I'd be laughed off the podium and probably assaulted by young, angry, white college students for being racist.

Jae Onasi
09-29-2008, 04:16 PM
Confusing Republicans with racism (under the not-so--subtle guise of 'white privilege') shows just how little this speaker knows. I'd love to see his explanation of how Colin Powell or Condeleeza Rice are part of this 'white privilege'/racist group.

With this kind of political tripe I'd be very leery of anything this group would have to say, which is sad. Race relations is just as important a topic as it was 50 years ago (and more) and all this guy has done is cheapened it by turning it into a 'vote Democrat because they're not racist' speech.

ForeverNight
09-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Wow... just when I thought people couldn't get any stupider... wow.

JediMaster12
09-29-2008, 05:04 PM
Like I said this was sent to me in an email. I didn't read the actual blog which is connected to the link. The other parts I think were written into the 'layman's terms' since trying to tackle politics is like trying to go 50mph in second gear.

Corinthian
09-29-2008, 05:23 PM
It's pretty funny if you assume it's satirical, actually.

Det. Bart Lasiter
09-29-2008, 05:42 PM
I think his point that Sarah Palin being almost above criticism or even above being questioned about policy issues and Obama being overly criticized is right on, but I'm far more inclined to think that has more to do with simple politics and less to do with racism. That being said, I wish he'd written that as an essay on politics and not an essay on racism.

ForeverNight
09-29-2008, 05:45 PM
If you look at the rest of this guy's work... he's just out there...

As for what jmac said, yes if he'd done it on politics, then it would make more sense... but racism???

Maybe I'm just such a "White-Supremest" that I think he's a nut... that or he's a nut.

El Sitherino
09-29-2008, 06:00 PM
Sarah Palin is an example of Privilege, not "White Privilege"

White privilege is getting caught with pot and not being arrested.

ET Warrior
09-29-2008, 06:39 PM
While I may not agree with all of the points raised as being strictly white privilege related, anyone who doesn't believe that white privilege exists and is prevalent in our society is lying to themselves. (There are also major issues with male privilege and heterosexual privilege, though they are not the subject of this thread)

Web Rider
09-29-2008, 08:27 PM
While I may not agree with all of the points raised as being strictly white privilege related, anyone who doesn't believe that white privilege exists and is prevalent in our society is lying to themselves. (There are also major issues with male privilege and heterosexual privilege, though they are not the subject of this thread)

that depends on what you define as white privilege.

But that's not really the thread subject, so I don't expect you to go into it here.

JediMaster12
10-01-2008, 06:51 PM
Underestandably the one who wrote the blog may be a nut however givene what we have seen in history and the current criticisms and name bashing, wouldn't he be right in that 'white privilege' has an advantage?

GarfieldJL
10-01-2008, 07:09 PM
Underestandably the one who wrote the blog may be a nut however givene what we have seen in history and the current criticisms and name bashing, wouldn't he be right in that 'white privilege' has an advantage?

It's just another pro-Obama supporter trying to call whomever criticizes Obama a racist...

Fact is if McCain were Black and Obama was white and they both had the same records the currently do... I'd still vote for Senator John Sydney McCain.

Web Rider
10-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Underestandably the one who wrote the blog may be a nut however givene what we have seen in history and the current criticisms and name bashing, wouldn't he be right in that 'white privilege' has an advantage?

considering this is essentially slamming Palin(and to a lesser extent McCain) for a laundry list of petty things, I'd say that thems white peoples did not get awa from the racism either.

Corinthian
10-01-2008, 08:48 PM
This might have some credit if he had some facts to back up his crap.

GarfieldJL
10-01-2008, 11:16 PM
Underestandably the one who wrote the blog may be a nut however givene what we have seen in history and the current criticisms and name bashing, wouldn't he be right in that 'white privilege' has an advantage?

Not really, because based on how Hillary Clinton was treated by the Mainstream Media and now Sarah Pallin while Barack Obama hasn't been vetted at all.

El Sitherino
10-01-2008, 11:31 PM
Not really, because based on how Hillary Clinton was treated by the Mainstream Media and now Sarah Pallin while Barack Obama hasn't been vetted at all.

I don't understand. Could you clarify what you mean, for me, good sir? o_Q

GarfieldJL
10-01-2008, 11:41 PM
I don't understand. Could you clarify what you mean, for me, good sir? o_Q

Obama's laundry list of associations, including his involvement in what led up to this current financial crisis.

Associations like: William Ayers, a domestic terrorist that bombed the Pentagon, US Capital, New York City Police Headquarters.

Obama's explaination that their kids went to the same school is bull, because Ayers' kids were already adults.

El Sitherino
10-01-2008, 11:53 PM
Obama's explaination that their kids went to the same school is bull, because Ayers' kids were already adults.

I agree its' bull because his explanation from my recollection was that he met him as one of his instructors at college.

GarfieldJL
10-02-2008, 10:52 AM
I agree its' bull because his explanation from my recollection was that he met him as one of his instructors at college.

Well Obama and Ayers headed up a foundation together, in fact the two of them with two other people helping wrote the rules for that foundation.

Obama also started his Illinois State Senate Campaign in Ayers' home.

The mainstream media isn't covering this at all so in my opinion we are either looking at reverse racism, extreme liberal bias, or both.

El Sitherino
10-02-2008, 12:20 PM
That's nice, did you know plenty of criminals and domestic terrorists work for and with government officials?

I bet you didn't know Kevin Mitnick is part of the NSA.

GarfieldJL
10-02-2008, 01:58 PM
That's nice, did you know plenty of criminals and domestic terrorists work for and with government officials?

I bet you didn't know Kevin Mitnick is part of the NSA.

I do now, but there's a fallacy in your argument, Mitnick didn't kill anyone. He didn't bomb the Pentagon, the US Capital Building and New York City Police Department.

Mitnick did not say: (I think I'm getting the quote right someone correct me if I'm wrong)
I do not regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough. -- Bill Ayers


Mitnick did not say: God d*** America! -- Reverand Wright


Mitnick's church did not have: http://www.wikio.com/video/251967

Mitnick doesn't accuse people of racism whenever they criticize him.

El Sitherino
10-02-2008, 02:01 PM
I do now, but there's a fallacy in your argument, Mitnick didn't kill anyone. He didn't bomb the Pentagon, the US Capital Building and New York City Police Department.

Mitnick did not say: (I think I'm getting the quote right someone correct me if I'm wrong)
-- Bill Ayers


Mitnick did not say: -- Reverand Wright


Mitnick's church did not have: http://www.wikio.com/video/251967

Mitnick doesn't accuse people of racism whenever they criticize him.
Okay, that's nice however that doesn't change anything and raises no value in your statement against Obama.

Wright is a dumbass and Ayers is a reformed man who as far as I know hasn't blown anything up in 30 years. He's paid for what he's done, leave him alone or show me evidence his fertilizer is infact for a bomb.

As well, this does not have anything to do with White Privilege or *-Privilege in general.

GarfieldJL
10-02-2008, 02:06 PM
Okay, that's nice however that doesn't change anything and raises no value in your statement against Obama.


The fact that he has all of these associations at the same time for a number of years and lies about them does.


Wright is a dumbass and Ayers is a reformed man who as far as I know hasn't blown anything up in 30 years. He's paid for what he's done, leave him alone or show me evidence his fertilizer is infact for a bomb.


I'll agree to your first statement about Wright, but not Ayers.
(someone correct me if I'm wrong on the second part but the first part of the quote I remember)
I do not regret setting bombs, I feel we didn't do enough. -- William Ayers on 9/11/2001, that doesn't sound like he's reformed to me.

There is also a 2004 picture of him standing on the American Flag, I'll try to find it if you'd like.


As well, this does not have anything to do with White Privilege or *-Privilege in general.
It has to do with completely debunking it because if there was "White Privilege" the media would be all over this and they aren't/

El Sitherino
10-02-2008, 02:58 PM
The fact that he has all of these associations at the same time for a number of years and lies about them does.

When did he lie? He's acknowledged awareness of these people as his friends and associates.

It has to do with completely debunking it because if there was "White Privilege" the media would be all over this and they aren't/

I believe we've all established there is no White Privilege to be found here.

GarfieldJL
10-02-2008, 03:33 PM
When did he lie? He's acknowledged awareness of these people as his friends and associates.


http://poligazette.com/2008/09/23/obama-ayers-ties-went-further-than-obama-admits/

Just a guy living in the same neighborhood huh?