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GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 03:02 PM
There have been quite a few reports of teachers this election actively taking sides in their curriculem which one could argue is brainwashing.

Now any school that receives state and/or federal funds the classes have to remain politically neutral.

However, this isn't turning out to be the case.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/06/middle-school-teacher-suspended-obama-frat-spat/

Heard of an incident in Colorado, another one in Virginia, well you get the idea.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 03:08 PM
Would you complain if they were being 'brainwashed' into being John McCain supporters? :)

They're middle school students. They can't vote.

Oh yes, and before I forget again, lol@foxnews. Try to find a source that doesn't put a ridiculous spin on everything.

Litofsky
10-06-2008, 03:15 PM
There have been quite a few reports of teachers this election actively taking sides in their curriculem which one could argue is brainwashing.
*rubs temples* If I dare to justify your argument by responding to it, I would say that it entirely depends on the age of the child. That being said, I'd like to point out that it's up to the individual to decipher fact from fiction, and not have someone spoon-feed them what's right and wrong.

Now any school that receives state and/or federal funds the classes have to remain politically neutral.
I agree with you. Neutrality seems great in principle, but my experiences have shown me that some people, being human beings like the rest of us, have a hard time holding their tongue.

However, this isn't turning out to be the case.
No, it's not. I'll provide an example: a teacher at my brother's school drew a McCain's name on the board (and, if I recall correctly), mentioned that she preferred him during an activity. Do you have a problem with this, Garfield, or do you just really dislike Obama?

Once more, neutrality's a good idea, but rather hard to enforce.

In any case, I believe that the teacher should receive an infraction, but certainly not be fired.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 03:18 PM
Would you complain if they were being 'brainwashed' into being John McCain supporters? :)

They're middle school students. They can't vote.

Oh yes, and before I forget again, lol@foxnews. Try to find a source that doesn't put a ridiculous spin on everything.

Okay how about it actually happening at my college campus that I go to during the primaries.

The political science department got in trouble for printing and circulating Barack Obama ads.

And btw, Fox News has picked up on some things over a year ago that are only just now being picked up by the 'mainstream' press. Like the fact Obama served on a board with a domestic terrorist.

And I'd be concerned if it was a group for McCain, but that isn't likely to happen, because it'd be blared all over the news if it happened. Because it is Obama, is the only reason why Fox News is the only one to pick up on this.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 03:20 PM
Depends on whether your institution is public or private. I graduated from a private institution so I wouldn't have an issue with it. Of course I fully believe I can think for myself and if someone was circulating pamphlets I wouldn't go "OMG PAMPHLET, MUST VOTE FOR ______!!!!!!!!!111111111"

Fox News makes up their news when it suits them. They are an unreliable source.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 03:22 PM
Depends on whether your institution is public or private. I graduated from a private institution so I wouldn't have an issue with it. Of course I fully believe I can think for myself and if someone was circulating pamphlets I wouldn't go "OMG PAMPHLET, MUST VOTE FOR ______!!!!!!!!!111111111"

Fox News makes up their news when it suits them. They are an unreliable source.

Uh huh, the University I go to is a public one and takes Federal money and it was the faculty and staff that printed the Obama ads. That is illegal under Federal Law.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 03:23 PM
Then take them to court. I'm sure there are plenty of schools that are breaking the law by printing McCain ads. I assume you have a problem with that too? Or is it only wrong when they're not supporting your candidate?

Web Rider
10-06-2008, 03:52 PM
Do you know why Simpsons creator Matt Groening was banned from including "fake" news tickers in his show?

Because a study done by Fox reported that Fox viewers thought those fake tickers, which were hilarious and impossible to take for real news, were real news.

mimartin
10-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Uh huh, the University I go to is a public one and takes Federal money and it was the faculty and staff that printed the Obama ads. That is illegal under Federal Law.Yes, and it the same for the church I go to. They printed information bias toward McCain and pretty much said anyone that votes for Obama is going to hell.

I didn’t call the media, I call Uncle Sammy. Now will they lose their tax exempt status?

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Then take them to court. I'm sure there are plenty of schools that are breaking the law by printing McCain ads. I assume you have a problem with that too? Or is it only wrong when they're not supporting your candidate?

I would if that was actually happening, and I have yet to hear of a case like this involving John McCain's campaign.

Do you know why Simpsons creator Matt Groening was banned from including "fake" news tickers in his show?

Because a study done by Fox reported that Fox viewers thought those fake tickers, which were hilarious and impossible to take for real news, were real news.

If you're trying to goad me into a fight it's not going to work, I've done my own research before I accepted them as a news source. I really don't appreciate basically being called an idiot.

I've seen agencies like CNN use doctored photos for their news coverage, taking it straight from Reuters without checking.

Fox News immediately picked up on the fact the pictures were bogus and reported the pictures were bogus.

You can't tell me Fox News has gone out of their way to lie on stuff because the 'mainstream' media would be jumping all over Fox News.

ChAiNz.2da
10-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Do you know why Simpsons creator Matt Groening was banned from including "fake" news tickers in his show?

Because a study done by Fox reported that Fox viewers thought those fake tickers, which were hilarious and impossible to take for real news, were real news.
please tell me you're kidding? :lol:
I was just thinking about this the other night when I noticed that American Dad had a new show opening (yes, I like the cartoon :xp: )

Web Rider
10-06-2008, 04:04 PM
If you're trying to goad me into a fight it's not going to work, I've done my own research before I accepted them as a news source. I really don't appreciate basically being called an idiot.
I am only, as you say, reporting the facts. He was interviewed on it.

You'll have to excuse the source, the article is quite old. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/oct/29/tvnews.internationalnews

I've seen agencies like CNN use doctored photos for their news coverage, taking it straight from Reuters without checking.

Fox News immediately picked up on the fact the pictures were bogus and reported the pictures were bogus.
I'm not saying other news agencies are perfect.

You can't tell me Fox News has gone out of their way to lie on stuff because the 'mainstream' media would be jumping all over Fox News.
The mainstream media doesn't jump all over Fox because it's a waste of time. What would an inter-orginization war do for anything? Not much except make people stop watching both.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:04 PM
You can't tell me Fox News has gone out of their way to lie on stuff because the 'mainstream' media would be jumping all over Fox News.You mean like this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tj8018NX6Q) If you watched a channel other than Fox you might notice that they do. :)

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 04:25 PM
I am only, as you say, reporting the facts. He was interviewed on it.

You'll have to excuse the source, the article is quite old. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/oct/29/tvnews.internationalnews


Is this the same guardian newspaper that also go in trouble for the Reuters debacle? Something about using doctored photos to say the Israelis were deliberately targetting civilians in Lebanon.

The mainstream media doesn't jump all over Fox because it's a waste of time. What would an inter-orginization war do for anything? Not much except make people stop watching both.

Well actually, they've tried to do so in the past but they ended up losing viewers and Fox News gained them when their attacks ended up backfiring. A lot of the mainstream networks have lost their viewers to Fox News recently because said networks have lost all credibility.

You didn't see Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly giving the News media coverage for the conventions on Fox News. But MSNBC had Keith Oberman and Chris Mathews serving as news anchors for the political coverage of the conventions. For the record MSNBC came in dead last for total number of viewers.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:28 PM
Fox doesn't have any credibility either, and everyone seems to understand that but you. I'd daresay that many of the viewers watch Fox for entertainment value alone. I think it's hilarious how retarded all their news is.

Astor
10-06-2008, 04:33 PM
As for the teachers, they really shouldn't let their political opinions interfere with the education of those they're charged with educating. But I hardly think it could be classed as misconduct if they favour one over the other.

Fox doesn't have any credibility either, and everyone seems to understand that but you. I'd daresay that many of the viewers watch Fox for entertainment value alone. I think it's hilarious how retarded all their news is.

Unfortunately, it's all I can get in the way of American news in the UK. Makes one glad the internet's around.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:35 PM
My mother is a Republican, and even she thinks that FoxNews is a joke.

Q
10-06-2008, 04:37 PM
Oh yes, and before I forget again, lol@foxnews. Try to find a source that doesn't put a ridiculous spin on everything.
And before I forget, lol@the very idea that such a source even exists in this day and age. All journalism is yellow these days. It's Fox News' slant verses that of every other news organization in existence. :dozey:

Just thought I'd point that out. Carry on. :drama:

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:39 PM
There's bias, and then there's FoxNews. :p

But you're right. People don't do enough thinking for themselves, it seems, if they feel the need to quote any news sources and pretend they hold anything of real value. If you're not getting your information directly from the horse's mouth you better question it, whether it agrees with your personal beliefs or not.

Better yet, if you're really serious, find a source that is biased against your candidate that confirms your statements/beliefs.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 04:40 PM
My mother is a Republican, and even she thinks that FoxNews is a joke.

I'm not even going to comment except to say I did my own research, checked their sources and found them to be pretty accurate.

I'm going to ask politely that you stop with the personal attacks.

Fact is another incident of misconduct on the part of teachers occurred at the University I go to, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Fox News article is true.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't think that giving my mother's opinion of FoxNews is a personal attack. I also don't believe that my opinion that you're providing biased and oftentimes inaccurate sources as the be all and end all of political honesty is a personal attack.

You've been asked several times in multiple threads to provide better sources. Maybe we're on to something. :)

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 04:47 PM
I don't think that giving my mother's opinion of FoxNews is a personal attack. I also don't believe that my opinion that you're providing biased and oftentimes inaccurate sources as the be all and end all of political honesty is a personal attack.

You've been asked several times in multiple threads to provide better sources. Maybe we're on to something. :)

Sources from what may I ask you consider to be an unbiased source, the New York Times?

Seriously, most media outlets have a left wing bias and if you're telling me that you seriously believe that a man that says he gets a shiver up his leg when Obama speaks isn't a biased source (reference to a reporter at MSNBC), then I've got some land in the Florida Everglades to sell you... In other words this election I sincerely doubt there is an unbiased source anywhere in the world. Accept for legislation and tax returns, I've already posted things with the transcripts of what was said and people have called those biased.

Yes, and it the same for the church I go to. They printed information bias toward McCain and pretty much said anyone that votes for Obama is going to hell.

I didn’t call the media, I call Uncle Sammy. Now will they lose their tax exempt status?

Churches aren't supposed to do that either.

However teachers are paid with Federal Money and by Federal Law they aren't allowed to use their classroom, nor the school printers to support a candidate.

Inyri
10-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Most sources are going to be biased, but certainly there are some that are less biased than others. If you think FoxNews isn't insanely biased then you can keep that land in the everglades. :)

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Most sources are going to be biased, but certainly there are some that are less biased than others. If you think FoxNews isn't insanely biased then you can keep that land in the everglades. :)

Again Inyri, I've done my research and Fox News is closer to the center than you thinks but that is a seperate issue.

I could find the other article that has a video if you'd like.

Well not the article I was looking for but this one corroborates the earlier one:
http://caveviews.blogs.com/cave_news/2008/10/troubling-video.html
http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/1204930,obfrat.article

Looks like Fox News is accurate doesn't it, the videos kind of speak for themselves.

Here is a youtube of another incident, granted someone added something in front of the video and I'll try to find one without that whatever added.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8tLtiTW-M

http://www.bucksright.com/creepy-video-of-enraptured-indoctrinated-singing-obama-youth-1413
And I agree with the guy that posted this it does remind me of the same thing.

Rogue Nine
10-06-2008, 04:55 PM
Again Inyri, I've done my research and Fox News is closer to the center than you thinks but that is a seperate issue.
If your 'research' involves going onto websites that are even more slanted than Fox is, then it's not hard to see how you came to this conclusion.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 05:02 PM
If your 'research' involves going onto websites that are even more slanted than Fox is, then it's not hard to see how you came to this conclusion.

Uh huh so let me get this straight sites with the actual videos Obama groups is not credible because they are conservative?

Web Rider
10-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Is this the same guardian newspaper that also go in trouble for the Reuters debacle? Something about using doctored photos to say the Israelis were deliberately targetting civilians in Lebanon.

I have no idea and I don't really care. I know the article is true because I watched the interview back when it happened. From there on out I don't really care.

Litofsky
10-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Uh huh so let me get this straight sites with the actual videos Obama groups is not credible because they are conservative?

Conservative sites are fine, as are liberal ones. It's just that you place overwhelming faith in Fox's accuracy which is, in of itself, a laughable act.

If you would, please detail your research. I'm eager to hear what led you to your conclusion that Fox is the best news out there (and, for the record, saying that the other stations are Obama-lovers won't cut it).

Q
10-06-2008, 05:29 PM
There's bias, and then there's FoxNews. :p
I tend to think that their outrageousness makes them less dangerous than other organizations that try the subtle approach. ;)

But you're right. People don't do enough thinking for themselves, it seems, if they feel the need to quote any news sources and pretend they hold anything of real value.
Which brings us back to the OP. @Garfield: Do you think that brainwashing in our public schools is anything new? They've been encouraging conformity and squashing individualism for decades. As a matter of fact they spend so much time doing it that they've become the laughing-stock of the civilized world because there isn't any time left over for the teaching of real academics. :p
If you're not getting your information directly from the horse's mouth you better question it, whether it agrees with your personal beliefs or not.
Me, I just play it safe by not believing a single word that I hear from anyone. Everyone has an agenda, be it theirs or someone else's (I find that the latter is usually the case because, well, most people are sheep because they're just following the programming that they received in school), and everybody lies.
Better yet, if you're really serious, find a source that is biased against your candidate that confirms your statements/beliefs.You might be on to something here. ;)

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 05:33 PM
Again these videos remind me of pre World War II videos of the Hitler Youth Movement, I kid you not.

I have no idea and I don't really care. I know the article is true because I watched the interview back when it happened. From there on out I don't really care.

I'm not saying I don't believe you're telling the truth that that is what you saw, but I've had literally no faith in the Journalistic accuracy of the news media in the UK since 2006 when they were using doctored photos that I could easily tell were doctored and have done a better job in the span of 15 minutes and it isn't even my expertise (mine is manufacturing graphics).

Conservative sites are fine, as are liberal ones. It's just that you place overwhelming faith in Fox's accuracy which is, in of itself, a laughable act.

If you would, please detail your research. I'm eager to hear what led you to your conclusion that Fox is the best news out there (and, for the record, saying that the other stations are Obama-lovers won't cut it).

It actually took quite a bit of time, so I don't have all the sources in front of me. I've read some members of the Fox News team's books checked the sources of those books and found them all to be accurate if not understating the severity (yeah it was even worse than what they were letting on). I actually used to like Hardball with Chris Matthews on MSNBC, but over time he went further and further left wing, and I lost interest in him and came across Fox News by accident.

I listened to what they were reporting, did some cross-checking and found it to be accurate. I found their style of reporting to be particularly good, they divide up their news broadcast one section being to objectively report the news, then towards the end they let everyone know they're going to a panel for some analysis. (basically saying and now here's the opinion column) Then (at least on Special Report) they finish out with a small video from SNL or some other comedy piece.

I've also been checking the sources at their website over time and those have also checked out.

As far as the other Media outlets credibility:
CBS lost all credibility in 2004 using a bogus letter to try to say President Bush was derelict in his duty. I know for a fact the letter was bogus because no typewriter of the time used the font the letter was in. The spacing didn't fit that of a typewriter either, it fit the spacing of a modern computer.

The other media outlets lost pretty much all credibility in 2006, and finally lost it when Sean Hannity started defending Hillary Clinton because the media bias was that blatantly bad. (And Sean hates Hillary Clinton)

The incident in 2006 was the debacle involving Reuters and most of the media using doctored photos. Fox News didn't use those photos except to point out they are doctored, the fact they took the time to look instead of just trying to pile on Israel is one of the reasons why I gained more respect for them.

Additionally NBC and MSNBC's parent company General Electric has been supplying Iran with electronics that can be used for military equipment.

jrrtoken
10-06-2008, 05:41 PM
I listened to what they were reporting, did some cross-checking and found it to be accurate. I found their style of reporting to be particularly good, they divide up their news broadcast one section being to objectively report the news, then towards the end they let everyone know they're going to a panel for some analysis. (basically saying and now here's the opinion column) Then (at least on Special Report) they finish out with a small video from SNL or some other comedy piece.Cross checking from what? Other news networks or conservative news sites? If you compared Fox's news to other networks that you claim have a bias, and extract the truth from both of their staments, then you have it. If you limit yourself to one end of the spectrum, then you've earned nothing.

Additionally NBC and MSNBC's parent company General Electric has been supplying Iran with electronics that can be used for military equipment.Okay, that's pure BS, and if you'd like to prove me otherwise, I'd like some legitimate, non-biased sources supporting your statement.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 05:48 PM
He’s actually identified specific companies that have invested in these rogue countries, including Halliburton, Conoco-Phillips and General Electric. And he points out that New York's pension funds own nearly $1 billion worth of stock in these three Fortune 500 companies, which have operations in Iran and Syria.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/22/60minutes/main595214.shtml

That is from CBS, and they are understating the situation. Bill O'Reilly of Fox News brought it up before did 60 Minutes.

Astor
10-06-2008, 05:50 PM
Bill O'Reilly of Fox News brought it up before did 60 Minutes.

Well if Bill O'Reilly said so it must be true...

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 05:54 PM
Well if Bill O'Reilly said so it must be true...

If Bill O'Reilly and the left wingers at CBS both say it, then I can say with relative certainty that General Electric is selling things to Iran.

jrrtoken
10-06-2008, 05:54 PM
It said nothing on whether GE sold electronical equipment to Iran for military purposes, or anyone on that manner. It mainly discussed Halliburton's practices, and we all know who was a CEO of Halliburton...

Astor
10-06-2008, 05:58 PM
If Bill O'Reilly and the left wingers at CBS both say it, then I can say with relative certainty that General Electric is selling things to Iran.

But not beyond reasonable doubt?

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 05:58 PM
It said nothing on whether GE sold electronical equipment to Iran for military purposes, or anyone on that manner. It mainly discussed Halliburton's practices, and we all know who was a CEO of Halliburton...

If you're referring to Dick Cheney, I'm well aware of that, was he a CEO when this started up though? (also I've said in the past President Bush has some real problems with judging people's charecter)

Also if they're selling anything to Iran with a microchip it can be used for military applications. You know your X-Box, it has a processor can be used for a guided missile at the very least.

Has anyone looked at the videos I posted up on the youth movements?

Astor
10-06-2008, 06:00 PM
Also if they're selling anything to Iran with a microchip it can be used for military applications. You know your X-Box, it has a processor can be used for a guided missile at the very least.

Or, it could just be used for an X-box, or a microwave, or a TV...

Just because it can be used for a purpose doesn't mean it will.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 06:04 PM
Or, it could just be used for an X-box, or a microwave, or a TV...

Just because it can be used for a purpose doesn't mean it will.

Problem with that theory is that as far as the Iranian Government is concerned that technology like an X-Box would be restricted because it could contaminate the people...

And I doubt a bulk order of technology that the people are not allowed to have nor could afford at this point is being used for civilian purposes.

Astor
10-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Problem with that theory is that as far as the Iranian Government is concerned that technology like an X-Box would be restricted because it could contaminate the people...

And I doubt a bulk order of technology that the people are not allowed to have nor could afford at this point is being used for civilian purposes.

Not my point. Microchips could be used for anything, yet you've assumed that they automatically are used for military purposes.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 06:08 PM
Not my point. Microchips could be used for anything, yet you've assumed that they automatically are used for military purposes.

Okay, so what nonmilitary purpose could they be used for considering Iran is a theocracy which basically bars anything "western" from their people. Additionally their people are suffering economically so they can't afford it.


Again can we get back on topic...

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-06-2008, 06:22 PM
Fact is another incident of misconduct on the part of teachers occurred at the University I go to, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Fox News article is true.Liberal college professors http://lucasforums.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=2069

As far as the other Media outlets credibility:
CBS lost all credibility in 2004 using a bogus letter to try to say President Bush was derelict in his duty. I know for a fact the letter was bogus because no typewriter of the time used the font the letter was in. The spacing didn't fit that of a typewriter either, it fit the spacing of a modern computer.

The other media outlets lost pretty much all credibility in 2006, and finally lost it when Sean Hannity started defending Hillary Clinton because the media bias was that blatantly bad. (And Sean hates Hillary Clinton)All of them suck. The only news I get is from NPR because they're all too boring to try and spin or hype things.

Corinthian
10-06-2008, 06:30 PM
And yet you only go berserk when Fox News is mentioned.

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-06-2008, 06:36 PM
And yet you only go berserk when Fox News is mentioned.I hate Cavuto and his **** eating grin. And I think I've said on numerous occasions that I hate 24-hour news networks and the state of journalism in general nowadays.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 07:37 PM
All of them suck. The only news I get is from NPR because they're all too boring to try and spin or hype things.


NPR is also in trouble for a liberal bias despite getting Federal Funding, they have a reputation for being highly partisan, heck so does PBS.

Again has anyone looked at the videos about the Obama Youth Groups?

Web Rider
10-06-2008, 08:09 PM
NPR is also in trouble for a liberal bias despite getting Federal Funding, they have a reputation for being highly partisan, heck so does PBS.

Again has anyone looked at the videos about the Obama Youth Groups?

No, and frankly, nobody cares. We're tired of you spewing out this junk, we're tired of every single post you make blaming the democrats, blaming the liberals, blaming the "media". It's tiresome, it's inaccurate, and yet you just keep at it. Get a new gig, read some different papers, something, anything, I don't really care, but come on.

You're just as "highly partisan" as everything you claim about the other side, we get it, you don't like the "liberals", get a new shtick already.

Why don't you just try to keep on topic for a change? You know, the thing the OP started this thread off with? it can't be very complicated not to turn every post, every topic into a "why the liberals are all that's wrong with America" tirade.

Q
10-06-2008, 08:31 PM
I say that being forever pigeon-holed into voting for one of two versions of the same lie is all that is wrong with America today.

Litofsky
10-06-2008, 08:40 PM
I say that being forever pigeon-holed into voting for one of two versions of the same lie is all that is wrong with America today.

I suggest that, if you would like to see a change in the political system currently holding sway in the US, you start your own party or begin preaching the problems of our current system.

EnderWiggin
10-06-2008, 09:02 PM
And btw, Fox News has picked up on some things over a year ago that are only just now being picked up by the 'mainstream' press. Like the fact Obama served on a board with a domestic terrorist.

Wow. I watched Bill O's coverage of the Bill Ayers story, and then did my own research.

The connection is strained, and really doesn't have anything to do with his politics.

Uh huh, the University I go to is a public one and takes Federal money and it was the faculty and staff that printed the Obama ads. That is illegal under Federal Law.

:violin:

So?

Well actually, they've tried to do so in the past but they ended up losing viewers and Fox News gained them when their attacks ended up backfiring. A lot of the mainstream networks have lost their viewers to Fox News recently because said networks have lost all credibility.

Wrong. Of course that's what Bill's telling you (I know, because he tells it to me too) but there's no real proof on it. And to say that they've "lost all credibility" is just a falsehood, plain and simple.


You didn't see Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly giving the News media coverage for the conventions on Fox News. But MSNBC had Keith Oberman and Chris Mathews serving as news anchors for the political coverage of the conventions. For the record MSNBC came in dead last for total number of viewers.

Oh, you're right. They had Brit Hume do it instead.

Sorry, but there's no real point here. :¬:


Better yet, if you're really serious, find a source that is biased against your candidate that confirms your statements/beliefs.

Which is why, as a liberal, and an Obama fan, I'm also a FoxNews watcher.

No, and frankly, nobody cares. We're tired of you spewing out this junk, we're tired of every single post you make blaming the democrats, blaming the liberals, blaming the "media". It's tiresome, it's inaccurate, and yet you just keep at it. Get a new gig, read some different papers, something, anything, I don't really care, but come on.

You're just as "highly partisan" as everything you claim about the other side, we get it, you don't like the "liberals", get a new shtick already.

Why don't you just try to keep on topic for a change? You know, the thing the OP started this thread off with? it can't be very complicated not to turn every post, every topic into a "why the liberals are all that's wrong with America" tirade.

*jaw drops*

I agree with Web Rider. This is like the first time, too! :xp:


_EW_

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 09:28 PM
Wow. I watched Bill O's coverage of the Bill Ayers story, and then did my own research.

The connection is strained, and really doesn't have anything to do with his politics.


And what did you do as research? Obama started his state senate campaign in Ayers' house for crying out loud, you can't honestly expect or anyone else to believe there is no association...


Wrong. Of course that's what Bill's telling you (I know, because he tells it to me too) but there's no real proof on it. And to say that they've "lost all credibility" is just a falsehood, plain and simple.


Bill O'Reilly is trying to be fair, however Dick Morris has pointed out the financial connections where Obama was diverting funds to radical groups, not for education but to simply radicalize students.


Which is why, as a liberal, and an Obama fan, I'm also a FoxNews watcher.


Yeah, and you need to watch Hannity's America, cause Sean was the one that found this stuff, not Mr O'Reilly.



Anyways, if you look at the kids in the video I posted it looks awfully like the Hitler Youth movement, which in my opinion is scary putting it mildly.

Rogue Nine
10-06-2008, 09:32 PM
And what did you do as research? Obama started his state senate campaign in Ayers' house for crying out loud, you can't honestly expect or anyone else to believe there is no association...
Source?

Anyways, if you look at the kids in the video I posted it looks awfully like the Hitler Youth movement, which in my opinion is scary putting it mildly.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2439/emotgodwinjh7.gif I'm sorry, but the laws of internet debate dictate that you have just lost.

And is that youth movement endorsed by Obama? If it is, you may have something. If he doesn't, then you have nothing.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 09:40 PM
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2439/emotgodwinjh7.gif I'm sorry, but the laws of internet debate dictate that you have just lost.


Well do you have any other way to describe it, a militant style march with students for Obama, I'm not sure if Obama has anything to do with this or not in fairness, this topic is about the teacher responsible for this, and I'm using this as an example of a teacher abusing their power.



And is that youth movement endorsed by Obama? If it is, you may have something. If he doesn't, then you have nothing.

Uh I'm going to be looking for it, the first one I posted I'm not sure there is, but the topic is about teachers not Obama specifically. The second I believe there is a connection and I'll look into it.

Offhand though Hannity & Colmes covered this tonight.

Rogue Nine
10-06-2008, 09:49 PM
Well do you have any other way to describe it, a militant style march with students for Obama, I'm not sure if Obama has anything to do with this or not in fairness, this topic is about the teacher responsible for this, and I'm using this as an example of a teacher abusing their power.
Right, and it just happened to be something anti-Obama? If it was just this one isolated incident, I can believe the coincidence. But you've turned pretty much every recent thread in Kavar's into an anti-Obama/anti-Democrat rant. So don't even give me that about being on-topic.

Uh I'm going to be looking for it, the first one I posted I'm not sure there is, but the topic is about teachers not Obama specifically. The second I believe there is a connection and I'll look into it.
Right, so you don't have anything. You just linked these articles in your quest to make Obama look bad without even checking if Obama had anything to do with these groups. Good job.

Offhand though Hannity & Colmes covered this tonight.
I don't care about Hannity and Colmes, talking heads are usually full of ****. That, and this has nothing to do with the topic you are allegedly trying to get back on track. So please stop bringing them up.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Right, and it just happened to be something anti-Obama? If it was just this one isolated incident, I can believe the coincidence. But you've turned pretty much every recent thread in Kavar's into an anti-Obama/anti-Democrat rant. So don't even give me that about being on-topic.


Considering these are youth groups for Obama, it ties to Barack Obama, I'm not going to lie about who these groups are supporting.


Right, so you don't have anything. You just linked these articles in your quest to make Obama look bad without even checking if Obama had anything to do with these groups. Good job.


Rouge Nine, they are supporting Barack Obama, I'm not going to lie and say they're supporting John McCain. I'm simply giving the facts, I'm not sure if it is tied to Senator Obama or not and I'm going to look in on it, but the Teachers Unions are generally endorsing Senator Obama.



I don't care about Hannity and Colmes, talking heads are usually full of ****. That, and this has nothing to do with the topic you are allegedly trying to get back on track. So please stop bringing them up.

You asked me for a source, I answered.


Back to topic, at the very least the instructors involved are way out of line, and I don't think they should even be teaching.

Litofsky
10-06-2008, 10:04 PM
Considering these are youth groups for Obama, it ties to Barack Obama, I'm not going to lie about who these groups are supporting.
So, because they support Obama, Obama automatically supports them? That's not very good logic. It's like saying the people support the oil companies. Do the oil companies necessarily support the people?

I'm simply giving the facts, I'm not sure if it is tied to Senator Obama or not and I'm going to look in on it, but the Teachers Unions are generally endorsing Senator Obama.
Facts can be skewed, as I'm sure you've seen. As for the Teacher's Union supporting Obama, I'd ask for a source, but I'd bet that what you say is true. Based on the past eight years of Republican leadership, I'm not surprised.

Back to topic, at the very least the instructors involved are way out of line, and I don't think they should even be teaching.
As I've stated before, I don't believe that the teacher should be fired. He may have been out of line, but there are far worse things he could have done rather than support a political ideal.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 10:08 PM
So, because they support Obama, Obama automatically supports them? That's not very good logic. It's like saying the people support the oil companies. Do the oil companies necessarily support the people?


I'm not sure if he supports them or not but if it were me and it were people supporting me I'd honestly be publically calling for them to be fired.


Facts can be skewed, as I'm sure you've seen. As for the Teacher's Union supporting Obama, I'd ask for a source, but I'd bet that what you say is true. Based on the past eight years of Republican leadership, I'm not surprised.


Most unions support the Democrat Party, particularly the teachers unions.


As I've stated before, I don't believe that the teacher should be fired. He may have been out of line, but there are far worse things he could have done rather than support a political ideal.

You mean aside from violating Federal Law, he's an authority figure abusing his power in a way that is inexcusable. He needs to be fired.

Rogue Nine
10-06-2008, 10:10 PM
Considering these are youth groups for Obama, it ties to Barack Obama, I'm not going to lie about who these groups are supporting.
Yeah, I'm not asking you to lie. But the fact of the matter is that you're taking every opportunity to smear Obama with slanted stories.

Rouge Nine
It's Rogue Nine, thanks.

they are supporting Barack Obama, I'm not going to lie and say they're supporting John McCain. I'm simply giving the facts, I'm not sure if it is tied to Senator Obama or not and I'm going to look in on it
Not tied to Senator Obama, but you clearly left that part out. You didn't give all the relevant facts. Gee, this is a FoxNews tactic, hmmm...

but the Teachers Unions are generally endorsing Senator Obama.
See Litofsky's post.

You asked me for a source, I answered.
Not one that I can readily read. And I'd hardly call Hannity and Colmes a reputable source of unskewed information.

Back to topic, at the very least the instructors involved are way out of line, and I don't think they should even be teaching.
I don't think any of those kids were coerced into attending these youth groups. Caring about politics seems like an odd activity for an eight-grader anyway. So you can't really say he's abusing his power as a teacher over these kids. Yeah, he was probably taking money from the school to support the group and that shouldn't be the case, but he's certainly not indoctrinating them with beliefs they don't already have.

GarfieldJL
10-06-2008, 11:03 PM
Yeah, I'm not asking you to lie. But the fact of the matter is that you're taking every opportunity to smear Obama with slanted stories.


No, I'm just vetting him which the mainstream media hasn't done.



Not tied to Senator Obama, but you clearly left that part out. You didn't give all the relevant facts. Gee, this is a FoxNews tactic, hmmm...


Not sure one way or the other, and Fox News isn't the one saying the Obama campaign is tied to this, but there is a pretty major pattern here. Be honest, if this were a group for John McCain you'd be calling for McCain's head.

Not one that I can readily read. And I'd hardly call Hannity and Colmes a reputable source of unskewed information.


I have yet to see you post a legitimate source (or at least one that most conservatives would consider legitimate). Even Alan has given in to the fact that Sean has brought up valid information, though he acts as though it isn't a big deal.


I don't think any of those kids were coerced into attending these youth groups. Caring about politics seems like an odd activity for an eight-grader anyway. So you can't really say he's abusing his power as a teacher over these kids. Yeah, he was probably taking money from the school to support the group and that shouldn't be the case, but he's certainly not indoctrinating them with beliefs they don't already have.

Considering my parents are in education, and their reactions Rogue I'd have to differ with your there, his use of Federal Money like this is a Felony that could result in prison time.

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-06-2008, 11:22 PM
No, I'm just vetting him which the mainstream media hasn't done.I haven't seen half the amount of coverage about McCain and his past as I've seen on Obama.

Not sure one way or the other, and Fox News isn't the one saying the Obama campaign is tied to this, but there is a pretty major pattern here. Be honest, if this were a group for John McCain you'd be calling for McCain's head.Don't try and mirror your response onto everyone else.

I have yet to see you post a legitimate source (or at least one that most conservatives would consider legitimate). Even Alan has given in to the fact that Sean has brought up valid information, though he acts as though it isn't a big deal.A convenient way to get out of being wrong.

Rogue Nine
10-06-2008, 11:28 PM
No, I'm just vetting him which the mainstream media hasn't done.
Smearing him as a terrorist, saying he's some how complicit in the Obama Youth rally thing # vetting. It is political smear.

Not sure one way or the other, and Fox News isn't the one saying the Obama campaign is tied to this, but there is a pretty major pattern here.
The fact remains you left out the fact that Obama clearly does not endorse this. Why? Because you want to make him look bad. You skewed the facts to make it fit your purposes. Do you deny this?

Be honest, if this were a group for John McCain you'd be calling for McCain's head.
No, I wouldn't. What people choose to believe and do on their own time is no concern of mine, especially if it is not endorsed by a candidate.

I have yet to see you post a legitimate source (or at least one that most conservatives would consider legitimate).
I'm not the one making ridiculous claims. I'm merely responding to your points as I interpret them, so I don't really need sources. If I were to make a generalized statement on factual matters, I would do my best to include a non-biased source.

Even Alan has given in to the fact that Sean has brought up valid information, though he acts as though it isn't a big deal.
I'm hereby ignoring any further references you make to Hannity as they are not relevant to the discussion at hand.

Considering my parents are in education, and their reactions Rogue I'd have to differ with your there, his use of Federal Money like this is a Felony that could result in prison time.
Well, that's fine if the federal laws see it that way. But the fact of the matter is he was not told to do it by Obama.

Astor
10-07-2008, 03:27 AM
Smearing him as a terrorist, saying he's some how complicit in the Obama Youth rally thing # vetting. It is political smear.

That, and the fact that he's also accused Obama of being a Terrorist. (Don't try to wriggle your way out of that - Guilt by Participation you posted in another thread)

And now, you're saying that he's got a Hitler style cult following him around?

EnderWiggin
10-07-2008, 05:20 AM
No, I'm just vetting him which the mainstream media hasn't done.


Oh, well then. I didn't realize that the United States was relying on you to "vet" Obama.

_EW_

Ztalker
10-07-2008, 05:23 AM
Maybe this sounds hard, but:

America has the most ludicrous system of voting for their leader in the world.
If you want to be a president:
-appear on as much cool talk shows as possible.
-do funky stuff (dancing at Elen Degeneres will help)
-talk like you know what you are doing
-let the advisers make all the decisions while you go on vacation

Seriously. Not to say we have it any better here, but we vote for a political party over here. Their ideals, their history, their speeches. Not how many times they appeared on talkshow X or Y.
Plus, our 'leader' will actually live under the people. And their salary is set on (I believe) 80.000 euro's. What a good businessman would get.

With all the respect, how can you take America seriously this way? They potentially vote for the 'world leader' but in a way that makes all other people smack their head in frustration. Bush can go stand-up if he wanted after this. All puppets on strings.

Achilles
10-07-2008, 06:56 AM
^^^^
You're 1) generalizing and 2) confusing the "the system" and how it is used. Yes, some people do make their decision this way, however that doesn't mean that is how our system works or even that a statistically significant percentage of registered voters follow this practice. It's like criticizing how lousy a particular rock is at driving nails when the reality is that it was never intended to be used for that purpose anyway.

If you would like to point out where any of the above steps for election appear in our Constitution I'll gladly stand corrected.

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 10:01 AM
Oh, well then. I didn't realize that the United States was relying on you to "vet" Obama.

_EW_

I shouldn't have to be but the "mainstream" media isn't doing their job.

Astor
10-07-2008, 10:11 AM
I shouldn't have to be but the "mainstream" media isn't doing their job.

In whose opinion?

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 10:37 AM
In whose opinion?

Most conservatives for starters. At least that's what polls have shown for a long while.

Astor
10-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Most conservatives for starters.

Oh, of course.

Web Rider
10-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Most conservatives for starters. At least that's what polls have shown for a long while.

So, just to be sure, the other, not-conservative half of America does not think this. Just clarifying that ya kno, the "liberal media" isn't actually biased at all, and some people just are upset that it's not pandering to them.

Arcesious
10-07-2008, 11:49 AM
I don't see what's wrong with informing students of things... At my school they have a pro-environmentalist slideshow movie running on a small TV in the main courtyard of the school, talking about how it would help if simply one out of 5 people recycled things more often...

I don't see what's wrong with giving kids the facts- kids can have an effect on the election by volunteering to help with a campaign if they can't vote.

But giving kids mindless propaganda is bad.

Astor
10-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Also, with today's society, and a world of information at anybodies fingertips, i'd much rather have children learn this stuff in stages, in a controlled environment, as opposed to say, stumbling onto a website that could potentially pose all sorts of questions for a toddler, child or young adult.

jrrtoken
10-07-2008, 01:06 PM
"Daddy, what's a MILF?" >_>

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 02:41 PM
Also, with today's society, and a world of information at anybodies fingertips, i'd much rather have children learn this stuff in stages, in a controlled environment, as opposed to say, stumbling onto a website that could potentially pose all sorts of questions for a toddler, child or young adult.

This is why parents need to be more responsible these days, again though you're not addressing the fact that teachers are abusing their authority positions to indoctrinate children for a radical political ideaology.

So, just to be sure, the other, not-conservative half of America does not think this. Just clarifying that ya kno, the "liberal media" isn't actually biased at all, and some people just are upset that it's not pandering to them.

That explains the CBS Debacle of 2004 (ie memogate), the New York Times debacle of 2008, the MSNBC debacle during the conventions this year etc., all of which were targetting conservatives, and/or trying to paint liberals as good. Nevermind the fact all three are examples of rampant bias.

Astor
10-07-2008, 02:52 PM
This is why parents need to be more responsible these days, again though you're not addressing the fact that teachers are abusing their authority positions to indoctrinate children for a radical political ideaology.

Or is just that it isn't the right indoctrination?

jrrtoken
10-07-2008, 02:58 PM
This is why parents need to be more responsible these days, again though you're not addressing the fact that teachers are abusing their authority positions to indoctrinate children for a radical political ideaology.If you want to accuse teachers of brainwashing kids with "radical political ideology", then you might as accuse the parents. After all, we've been brainwashed since birth.

That explains the CBS Debacle of 2004 (ie memogate), the New York Times debacle of 2008, the MSNBC debacle during the conventions this year etc., all of which were targetting conservatives, and/or trying to paint liberals as good. Nevermind the fact all three are examples of rampant bias.Prove it. All that you've given us are simply statements of your own opinion.

Basically, all that you have told is in this thread and in this forum is that liberals are hell spawn and that conservatives are our golden saviors, and you've done so by presenting "facts", which are really just opinions dressed up as the truth.

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 03:13 PM
If you want to accuse teachers of brainwashing kids with "radical political ideology", then you might as accuse the parents. After all, we've been brainwashed since birth.


The teachers brainwashed them into supporting a particular political candidate. The teacher used Federal Money for starters, so right there it is illegal, but it's called abusing their position of power to brainwash kids into supporting a particular individual, now that is wrong.



Prove it. All that you've given us are simply statements of your own opinion.

Basically, all that you have told is in this thread and in this forum is that liberals are hell spawn and that conservatives are our golden saviors, and you've done so by presenting "facts", which are really just opinions dressed up as the truth.

CBS Memogate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memogate

Reuters 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War_photographs_controversies

New York Times Contraversy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_The_New_York_Times
Particularly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain_lobbyist_controversy,_February_2008
The New York Times hit piece was proven to be bogus too

MSNBC Contraversy:
Some supporters of the Democratic Party have criticized MSNBC during and after the 2008 Democratic Primaries, accusing it of covering Barack Obama much more favorably than Hillary Clinton. Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, who supported Hillary Clinton in the primaries and currently supports Barack Obama, called MSNBC's coverage "absolutely embarrassing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC

Article goes on to say:
In a May 2008 appearance at the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum at Harvard University, an audience member asked Chris Matthews if MSNBC officially supports Barack Obama. Matthews responded that “Well, it’s not official.”

wikipedia's source: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=523508#

Another article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/business/media/08msnbc.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink&oref=slogin

I think this is a good start as far as sources.

Astor
10-07-2008, 03:20 PM
The teachers brainwashed them into supporting a particular political candidate. The teacher used Federal Money for starters, so right there it is illegal, but it's called abusing their position of power to brainwash kids into supporting a particular individual, now that is wrong.

Ok, but would you be so riled about it if they were seen to be promoting McCain?

MSNBC Contraversy:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC

Article goes on to say:


wikipedia's source: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=523508#

Another article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/business/media/08msnbc.html?_r=1&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink&oref=slogin

I think this is a good start as far as sources.

Ok, so you're accusing them of political bias. Yet again, you won't find a single news outlet that doesn't have a political bias.

Fox Newsertainment regularly paints liberals as bad, and conservatives as good.

Rogue Nine
10-07-2008, 03:21 PM
The teachers brainwashed them into supporting a particular political candidate. The teacher used Federal Money for starters, so right there it is illegal, but it's called abusing their position of power to brainwash kids into supporting a particular individual, now that is wrong.
Where is proof of this 'brainwashing'? In the video of the Obama youth, I don't see anyone coaching those kids to say things. The article by the Sun-Times says nothing about brainwashing. For all you know, these could have been some very politically aware children expressing their opinions. I'll not debate that the teacher shouldn't have used public money to further one political candidate, but to say that he brainwashed them is a stretch at best.

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 03:35 PM
Where is proof of this 'brainwashing'? In the video of the Obama youth, I don't see anyone coaching those kids to say things. The article by the Sun-Times says nothing about brainwashing. For all you know, these could have been some very politically aware children expressing their opinions. I'll not debate that the teacher shouldn't have used public money to further one political candidate, but to say that he brainwashed them is a stretch at best.

Just using Federal Funding like this is grounds for fines and prison time.

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 03:50 PM
Look a Teacher is a position of authority, would you want a teacher to teach your kid to be a muslim if you were a Catholic?


That's basically the same thing that's going on here, I don't care which side this youth group was for if it was a McCain youth group I'd be angry about it too.


Teachers are not supposed to indoctrinate students in a particular political ideaology.

Here's another incident:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/18/metro-prof-under-fire-anti-palin-assignment/

Rogue Nine
10-07-2008, 04:32 PM
Look a Teacher is a position of authority, would you want a teacher to teach your kid to be a muslim if you were a Catholic?
This example is stupid and irrelevant.

That's basically the same thing that's going on here, I don't care which side this youth group was for if it was a McCain youth group I'd be angry about it too.
No, it isn't the same thing. The students in that Obama youth video showed no signs of being coerced into what they were doing, and the articles that accompanied it did not state that the teacher was 'brainwashing' them to like Obama. As I said, for all you know, these could just be some very politically conscious youngsters.

Stop throwing around the word 'brainwash' as it does not apply here and only serves to show everyone how you're trying to spin this story to put Obama in a bad light.

Teachers are not supposed to indoctrinate students in a particular political ideaology.
The articles and the video never say he indoctrinated them. You are drawing your own fallacious conclusions.

Here's another incident:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/18/metro-prof-under-fire-anti-palin-assignment/
Yeah, that teacher is actually deserving of heat for abusing his position as a teacher, if the story is to be believed.

GarfieldJL
10-07-2008, 06:21 PM
This example is stupid and irrelevant.


It's perfectly relevant because it amounts to the same thing.



No, it isn't the same thing. The students in that Obama youth video showed no signs of being coerced into what they were doing, and the articles that accompanied it did not state that the teacher was 'brainwashing' them to like Obama. As I said, for all you know, these could just be some very politically conscious youngsters.


Rogue Nine, this took place in the classroom on school time. If the students were politically conscious fine, but the instructor is the one that made the video to kinda brag about and support Obama, so I highly doubt the interpretation you've given is accurate.


Stop throwing around the word 'brainwash' as it does not apply here and only serves to show everyone how you're trying to spin this story to put Obama in a bad light.


It does apply here, because that's what it is. As I said it was the teacher that made the video to support Obama.


Yeah, that teacher is actually deserving of heat for abusing his position as a teacher, if the story is to be believed.

Rocky Mountain News is one of several sources covering this and it is one of the local papers in the area. I know that for a fact because I've been to Colorado before.

Astor
10-07-2008, 06:25 PM
It's perfectly relevant because it amounts to the same thing.

Not really. Firstly, why would a teacher be changing someone's religion? Teaching someone to follow a different Religion is very different to recommending, or preferring a political candidate over another.

Rogue Nine, this took place in the classroom on school time. If the students were politically conscious fine, but the instructor is the one that made the video to kinda brag about and support Obama, so I highly doubt the interpretation you've given is accurate.

Interpretations. And can you prove that the video was made to brag and support Obama?

Rogue Nine
10-07-2008, 06:31 PM
It's perfectly relevant because it amounts to the same thing.
Not really. There is no evidence that the teacher was teaching them anything about Obama they didn't already know or believe.

Rogue Nine, this took place in the classroom on school time.
Where does it say that?

If the students were politically conscious fine, but the instructor is the one that made the video to kinda brag about and support Obama, so I highly doubt the interpretation you've given is accurate.
Well, it's obvious he did it to support Obama. You're accusing him of indoctrinating these kids to support Obama and there's no evidence of this.

It does apply here, because that's what it is. As I said it was the teacher that made the video to support Obama.
Again, it only applies if he actually forced them to learn about Obama. There is no evidence to show that he did and the kids do not look coached or under duress. Show me where it says he explicitly 'brainwashed' them.

Rocky Mountain News is one of several sources covering this and it is one of the local papers in the area. I know that for a fact because I've been to Colorado before.
I've been to Singapore before, that doesn't make me an expert on their newspaper circulars. :p

Jae Onasi
10-08-2008, 01:31 AM
As a parent, I have to ask
a. did the teacher have parental permission for this activity to be posted on the internet
b. did the teacher have school permission for this to be posted on the internet.

Obama or McCain issues are dwarfed by these 2 issues above.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 10:32 AM
As a parent, I have to ask
a. did the teacher have parental permission for this activity to be posted on the internet
b. did the teacher have school permission for this to be posted on the internet.

Obama or McCain issues are dwarfed by these 2 issues above.

The answer to both questions is apparently "no" because the school had to suspend the teacher in question and is apparently considering legal action as well.

Ultimate Vader
10-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Hey, can I ask you guys, how is school in USA, their building, teaching methods, their teachers, and their students, because I don't live in America, and I want to know more about schools in USA.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Hey, can I ask you guys, how is school in USA, their building, teaching methods, their teachers, and their students, because I don't live in America, and I want to know more about schools in USA.

Depends where in the country you are, some schools are good some are bad.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/02/virginia-teachers-union-sparks-outrage-obama-blue-day/

Looks like a new case in Virginia.

And here is another situation:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/nationalbreaking/ci_10607989

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10022008/news/regionalnews/teachers_get_hit_on_the_button_131776.htm

Ultimate Vader
10-08-2008, 12:05 PM
Hmm.. can you make a comparison about schools in USA based on the country, because I really want to know the difference between schools in USA and in my nation.

jrrtoken
10-08-2008, 04:13 PM
Garfield, those links didn't even answer his question. They're all just about how Obama is the Antichrist. :rolleyes:

Web Rider
10-08-2008, 04:16 PM
Hmm.. can you make a comparison about schools in USA based on the country, because I really want to know the difference between schools in USA and in my nation.

Well, if you're really from Jakarta, I'd have to bet that the general knowledge of your education system in this forum is lacking. In short, you probably know best, so if you want a comparason, tell us about how your system works, though it might be best to start a new thread for that.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
Garfield, those links didn't even answer his question. They're all just about how Obama is the Antichrist. :rolleyes:

Ultimate Vader was off topic, so I decided to give him a small answer and move on, and I didn't notice anything that called Obama that.

Quite frankly, I'm actually questioning the integrity of some teachers and teachers unions.

jrrtoken
10-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Quite frankly, I'm actually questioning the integrity of some teachers and teachers unions.Oh, so it's always the teacher's fault?

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 05:02 PM
Oh, so it's always the teacher's fault?

It is when they're using Government Money to support a particular political candidate.

It is when they are using their classroom to support a particular political candidate.

Astor
10-08-2008, 05:07 PM
None of which has been adequately proved, beyond a few right-wing websites.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 05:09 PM
None of which has been adequately proved, beyond a few right-wing websites.

So you're also calling a local newspaper a right-wing website?


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/sep/18/metro-prof-under-fire-anti-palin-assignment/

Inyri
10-08-2008, 05:17 PM
That source is not biased, but it also doesn't conclusively prove your point, either. In a lot of people's minds that's a perfectly fine essay topic, since there has been a lot of build-up surrounding Sarah Palin. I wouldn't mind if I was assigned an essay asking me to give a critical analysis of Barack Obama, either, since he's had a lot of the same.

And any student who says 'holy cow' in an interview is probably not the brightest crayon in the box, so I'm skeptical of her story. :xp:

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 05:31 PM
That source is not biased, but it also doesn't conclusively prove your point, either. In a lot of people's minds that's a perfectly fine essay topic, since there has been a lot of build-up surrounding Sarah Palin. I wouldn't mind if I was assigned an essay asking me to give a critical analysis of Barack Obama, either, since he's had a lot of the same.

And any student who says 'holy cow' in an interview is probably not the brightest crayon in the box, so I'm skeptical of her story. :xp:

Actually it isn't a legitimate topic if it is one sided and taking sides in a political campaign under federal law as I've stated before, it would be illegal.

mimartin
10-08-2008, 05:45 PM
So you're also calling a local newspaper a right-wing website?

Are you saying a local newpaper can not be right-wing or left-wing? If they had a website, would that be bias too? I don't know about that paper, but my local paper and their website are extremely right-wing and the town 45 mins to the south has a extremely left-wing paper.

Inyri
10-08-2008, 05:46 PM
I see no use of the word 'bashing' in the article, and I also see the opinion of one single student out of a whole class saying the teacher was harassing Republican students. Certainly if he was they could have found a second student willing to corroborate that.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 05:46 PM
Are you saying a local newpaper can not be right-wing or left-wing? If they had a website, would that be bias too? I don't know about that paper, but my local paper and their website are extremely right-wing and the town 45 mins to the south has a extremely left-wing paper.

Here's the thing though, that incident did happen and the source is legitimate.

Jae Onasi
10-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Off-topic posts removed.

El Sitherino
10-08-2008, 07:20 PM
I remember when I was in middle school they tried to tell me I supported murder when I said I supported Al Gore because he wasn't anti-abortion.

Quit griping and face the facts, middle schoolers ain't ****.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 07:32 PM
I remember when I was in middle school they tried to tell me I supported murder when I said I supported Al Gore because he wasn't anti-abortion.

Quit bitching and face the facts, middle schoolers ain't ****.

That was an abuse of power too, and I'm guessing you went to a religious school not public school.

So that's a little stickier, it'd depend on whether or not your school received Government Funding, if they didn't I'm not sure about whether or not the incident would classify as illegal.

El Sitherino
10-08-2008, 07:37 PM
That was an abuse of power too, and I'm guessing you went to a religious school not public school.

So that's a little stickier, it'd depend on whether or not your school received Government Funding, if they didn't I'm not sure about whether or not the incident would classify as illegal.

Hahaha, yeah I went to a religious school. Nope, Public Education funded by the Federal and Texas Government.

Yet another reason to support Obama, actually.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 07:43 PM
Hahaha, yeah I went to a religious school. Nope, Public Education funded by the Federal and Texas Government.

Yet another reason to support Obama, actually.

That was you public school system, sounds like the reverse in stance of San Francisco, California but the same misuse of public funds.

However, I consider this another reason to support John McCain.

Litofsky
10-08-2008, 07:49 PM
That was you public school system, sounds like the reverse in stance of San Francisco, California but the same misuse of public funds.

However, I consider this another reason to support John McCain.

Why would this be a reason to support John McCain? Is education high on his To-Do list? The same question applies to Sithy, to be fair: why is this a reason to support Obama?

*I'm not attempting to poke anyone, but I just want a reasonable explanation as to why one candidate is better for education than the other.*

El Sitherino
10-08-2008, 07:53 PM
However, I consider this another reason to support John McCain.
Why? John McCain has continuously supported reducing funding for education while impossibly raising standards that cannot be met. This then forces schools to close, thus leading to a strain on the education system even more, leading to problematic educational enviroments. From there we see further misappropriation of funds.

Jae Onasi
10-08-2008, 07:59 PM
Why? John McCain has continuously supported reducing funding for education while impossibly raising standards that cannot be met. This then forces schools to close, thus leading to a strain on the education system even more, leading to problematic educational enviroments. From there we see further misappropriation of funds.

Those are pretty significant allegations--is there somewhere we can check on this?

Inyri
10-08-2008, 08:02 PM
His description sounds like No Child Left Behind. I have... opinions on that. =_=

Jae Onasi
10-08-2008, 08:04 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of the misappropriation of funds. I don't know if McCain supported No Child left behind or not.

El Sitherino
10-08-2008, 08:07 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of the misappropriation of funds. I don't know if McCain supported No Child left behind or not.

You can check McCain's voting record on the senate website. The misappropriation of funding can be found searching local news websites in many places. I remember a while back Dallas ISD was under investigation by the state of Texas for directing education funds to other venues. I'm not saying McCain supports it, simply stating he doesn't support proper regulation of said government funding. Because of this neglect a lot of schools do not receive the funding they are supposed to.

I can assure you the money that was written to go to these schools that are closed doesn't go to the school where it's students are transfered to. You can speak with any school board about this.

mimartin
10-08-2008, 08:16 PM
Jae you can go to this website to see how any of the candidates voted on the issues including education (http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm). Voted NO on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted NO on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted NO on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on declaring memorial prayers and religious symbols OK at schools. (May 1999)
Voted YES on allowing more flexibility in federal school rules. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
Voted YES on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
Voted YES on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
Voted YES on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
Voted NO on national education standards. (Feb 1994)

I found this one listed under taxes especially compelling: Voted NO on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001)

Litofsky
10-08-2008, 08:53 PM
As opposed to:

# First Senate bill: increase Pell Grant from $4,050 to $5,100. (Aug 2007)
# Sponsored legislations that recruit and reward good teachers. (Sep 2004)
# Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
# Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
# Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
There's my reason to support Obama instead of McCain: they've got nearly opposite voting records in this topic.

Source (http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Education). Thanks to mimartin for the link. :)

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 10:25 PM
What was attached to the bills though, McCain normally votes against bills that are full of ear marks?


You need to actually have a look at the entire bill, because as I recall there was a bill with an earmark for a Woodstock Museum courtesy of Hillary Clinton.

El Sitherino
10-08-2008, 10:29 PM
What was attached to the bills though, McCain normally votes against bills that are full of ear marks?

You can look at the bills by clicking the full information link and by visiting the senates website.

GarfieldJL
10-08-2008, 11:46 PM
You can look at the bills by clicking the full information link and by visiting the senates website.

I need the bill numbers to look them up, in a reasonable amount of time.

Achilles
10-08-2008, 11:54 PM
Researching the merits of the claim after making it. Always the hallmark of an argument that needs to be taken seriously.

Tommycat
10-09-2008, 02:14 AM
If you are going to quote, lets include all of it:
I want schools to answer to parents and students. (Sep 2008)
Pay bonuses to teachers in the most troubled schools. (Jul 2008)
Target funding to recruit top graduates as teachers. (Jul 2008)
Direct $750 million to build virtual schools. (Jul 2008)
Give parents easier access to obtain help for their children. (Jul 2008)
Shake up failed school bureaucracies with competition. (Jun 2008)
Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)
Believes in evolution, but sees the hand of God in nature. (May 2007)
Against nationally imposed standards & funding strings. (Feb 2000)
Teach virtues in all schools. (Dec 1999)
Enlist retirees for tutoring. (Nov 1999)
Good teachers should earn more than bad lawyers. (Oct 1999)
Decisions on teaching evolution should be made locally. (Aug 1999)
Help unqualified teachers find other lines of work. (Jul 1999)
Supports tax-free savings accounts for education expenses. (Jul 1999)
Supports “Reading Excellence”; and rewarding good schools. (Jul 1999)
Supports at-risk programs; homeless ed.; anti-drop-out ed. (Jul 1999)
Internet access, with filters, at every school & library. (Jun 1999)
Merit pay & competency testing for teachers. (Jun 1999)
Ed-ACT Bill: college plans; language proficiency. (May 1999)
Voted NO on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Voted NO on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted NO on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted NO on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on declaring memorial prayers and religious symbols OK at schools. (May 1999)
Voted YES on allowing more flexibility in federal school rules. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
Voted YES on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
Voted YES on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
Voted YES on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
Voted NO on national education standards. (Feb 1994)
Focus educational resources to help those with greatest need. (Jul 2001)
Require state standards, regular assessments, and sanctions. (Jul 2001)
Support Ed-Flex: more flexibility if more accountable. (Jul 2001)
Rated 45% by the NEA, indicating a mixed record on public education. (Dec 2003)

Now since the actual bills are not listed, we can only guess at his reasons. I mean I've seen a few bills that include some really large sums of money going to pork.

Now while I may be religious, I do not like his stance on creationism. I do like his TAX FREE education savings.

At any rate, at the topic, I dislike teachers using classes to support any political agenda. This includes things that I may agree with for the simple reason that the classrom is about learning, not about furthering a political aim.