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View Full Version : Voter Fraud In Swing States


GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 09:36 AM
Okay as some of you know there are at least 10 states where investigations of voter fraud are taking place. The FBI is now involved, and there has been particularly a lot of stuff going on in Ohio.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431525,00.html


Now a Federal Judge has ruled against the Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner in Ohio, and not a moment too soon, because if she had managed to sit on these for seven more days they would have been opened and there would have been no way to figure out which votes were fraudulent and which weren't.
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7207
http://www.wgntv.com/landing_election_news/?Judge-orders-Ohio-secretary-of-state-to-=1&blockID=91214&feedID=21

I'm going to go out of my way and state that in my opinion based on the information I've discovered thus far and say that it looks like she was involved in trying to cover up the fact that voter fraud was taking place.

It isn't just limited to Ohio though, in Nevada, the FBI has gotten involved and at the request of the Secretary of State there whom is honest, which is rare among Democrats these days on the Federal and State Level. The FBI is also investigating voter fraud in Missouri.

Furthermore, this has spilled into other states as well (including the state I call home), and all the voter fraud revolves around a key group that Senator Obama is now denying ever working for them and had paid them $800,000 in a get-out-the vote drive. That group is ACORN.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm very angry that this was taking place.

AP:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNf_-bBZls_mvLIRCFJtlkMM3mhAD93MIVPO1
What the AP isn't saying is there are ballots being turned over to the FBI in Missouri.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 10:18 AM
First off, they've been discussing this on every 24 hour news station.

Secondly I think everyone is upset about this, and it's not just ACORN that has been found to be linked to voter fraud. There have however been thousands of submissions filed by ACORN that are fraudulent.


Lastly, Senator Obama has not disconnected himself from ACORN he has stated that he at one time defended them when he was an attorney in Illinois. You can vilify a man for doing his job.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 11:14 AM
First off, they've been discussing this on every 24 hour news station.


Fox News was bringing this up several days ago and the others are only just now jumping on this.

Secondly I think everyone is upset about this, and it's not just ACORN that has been found to be linked to voter fraud. There have however been thousands of submissions filed by ACORN that are fraudulent.


A lot of the groups are subsidiaries of ACORN believe it or not which has somehow managed to get government money.


Lastly, Senator Obama has not disconnected himself from ACORN he has stated that he at one time defended them when he was an attorney in Illinois. You can vilify a man for doing his job.

No he's only denied training their people among other things. Also there is such thing as following the money, since he paid them $800,000 dollars.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 11:52 AM
Fox News was bringing this up several days ago and the others are only just now jumping on this.

Not really.


A lot of the groups are subsidiaries of ACORN believe it or not which has somehow managed to get government money.

Okay, so have a lot of conservative groups. I hardly see a correlation between the Democratic party and voter fraud.


No he's only denied training their people among other things.

Evidence of this? From what I've seen it's been pretty well established that he's been connected with ACORN in his past and has made no attempts to deny it. He may not give the issue as much time as you think, but that doesn't mean he's denied any connection.

Also there is such thing as following the money, since he paid them $800,000 dollars.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html

His campaign has given $800,000 dollars to a group that is in charge of get out the vote campaigns. Simply because a person in the RNC states there's something more to it doesn't make it so. I understand that it's very questionable, however that doesn't mean he [Obama] is in fact responsible for the actions of ACORN.

I think there is an issue with people look into things far more than they should, on both sides. After all we can bring up the scandals surrounding McCain and Palin both as far as corruption and mis-deeds go.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Not really.


Okay they are now covering it.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html

However, they seem not to be reporting that the FBI is investigating.



Okay, so have a lot of conservative groups. I hardly see a correlation between the Democratic party and voter fraud.


ACORN is a radical left-wing group, they are not conservatives, they are associated with the Democrat Party.


Evidence of this? From what I've seen it's been pretty well established that he's been connected with ACORN in his past and has made no attempts to deny it. He may not give the issue as much time as you think, but that doesn't mean he's denied any connection.


http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor

They are paid for by the Obama Campaign but is contradicted by:
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

Also reporting his connection and an attempt to cover it up:
While Barack Obama's connection with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has not gone entirely unreported, it has not been fully explained. Most media background pieces simply note Obama's involvement in a 1995 lawsuit on behalf of ACORN. Obama's own website, as well as most major media, fail to reveal the full depth and extent of his relationship with the organization.

Attempts to hide evidence of Obama's involvement with ACORN have included wiping the web clean of potentially damaging articles that had appeared, and were previously publicly accessible. Unfortunately, those behind the attempted cover-up failed to realize that in today's day and age, nothing disappears forever. There also exists another layer of the web, the hidden web, which is full of information included in proprietary scholarly databases where these very same "missing" articles can be easily uncovered.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203


His campaign has given $800,000 dollars to a group that is in charge of get out the vote campaigns. Simply because a person in the RNC states there's something more to it doesn't make it so. I understand that it's very questionable, however that doesn't mean he [Obama] is in fact responsible for the actions of ACORN.


Then why is the FBI getting involved if there is nothing there?
http://newmexicoindependent.com/4239/fbi-probing-1400-voter-registration-forms


I think there is an issue with people look into things far more than they should, on both sides. After all we can bring up the scandals surrounding McCain and Palin both as far as corruption and mis-deeds go.

Uh huh, McCain and Palin aren't funding a group that is committing out and out voter fraud, if they were the Mainstream media would be all over it.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Okay they are now covering it.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/acorn.fraud.claims/index.html

However, they seem not to be reporting that the FBI is investigating.

Why do they need to state the FBI is investigating it?

I think everyone is well aware federal investigations are handled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

ACORN is a radical left-wing group, they are not conservatives, they are associated with the Democrat Party.

I never said any different. I said that there are also conservative groups out there that have committd similar acts.


http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor

They are paid for by the Obama Campaign but is contradicted by:
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

You know, I read that and it's true Obama never trained ACORN, he was invited to. He also was director of Project Vote in 1992 which had volunteer work done by ACORN within the community of Chicago, there was no direct collaboration and any attempts to say so are a stretch of the truth. I read all through Mr. Kurtz's claims and it's all rather skeptical I agree, however there is no direct connection.


Then why is the FBI getting involved if there is nothing there?

I wasn't aware the FBI was investigating Barack Obama, care to provide a source?


Uh huh, McCain and Palin aren't funding a group that is committing out and out voter fraud, if they were the Mainstream media would be all over it.
Neither is Barack Obama.

Also you still need to learn that Fox News is the mainstream media.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Why do they need to state the FBI is investigating it?


Cause it shows that the Republicans accusation has merit.


I think everyone is well aware federal investigations are handled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


They are now, but the way it has been presented thus far is that it is Republican scare tactics when that is not the case cause it is actually taking place.


I never said any different. I said that there are also conservative groups out there that have committd similar acts.


Oh really, name 1 conservative organization that has been involved in committing voter fraud in the 2008 election. I sincerely doubt you could name even 1 where there is even a remote case against a Conservative group it would be all over the news media.


You know, I read that and it's true Obama never trained ACORN, he was invited to. He also was director of Project Vote in 1992 which had volunteer work done by ACORN within the community of Chicago, there was no direct collaboration and any attempts to say so are a stretch of the truth. I read all through Mr. Kurtz's claims and it's all rather skeptical I agree, however there is no direct connection.


I don't consider using a site funded directly by the Obama campaign to be a valid source, and what I'm pointed out is that I've tracked down enough information to show that Obama trained members of that organization. Furthermore, if he had no connection to them, why was he funnelling money to them.


I wasn't aware the FBI was investigating Barack Obama, care to provide a source?


I'm not saying they are investigating him yet, but odds are they are about to given the $800,000 contribution to ACORN for voter-registration drives.

Neither is Barack Obama.

Uh huh, then why did he pay them $800,000?


Also you still need to learn that Fox News is the mainstream media.

The term "Mainstream Media" refers to the liberal press which Fox News is not a part of.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 12:42 PM
The term "Mainstream Media" refers to the liberal press which Fox News is not a part of.
You apparently aren't aware of what the word "mainstream" means.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 12:51 PM
You apparently aren't aware of what the word "mainstream" means.

I know what mainstream means, I'm also aware of how it is used as far as the media is concerned.

Also I think the people over at Fox News would feel insulted being thrown in with the likes of MSNBC.


Oh and there is an investigation involving Obama:
http://bartonbulletin.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/fec-investigates-illegal-contributions-to-obama/
http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/acornproject_vote_voting_drive.html
http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/10/09/obama-and-acorn-is-there-a-problem-voter-registration-fraud/
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/15/acorn-commits-fraud-in-michigan/
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73335
http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/m/21171537/fraud_fears.htm?q=ACORN+Voter+Fraud





http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usobam025598601mar02,1,6933215,full.story


And then from Obama's own website:
When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN and his beginnings in Illinois as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights and education. Senator Obama said, "I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gGC7zm

ForeverNight
10-10-2008, 03:09 PM
When Obama met with ACORN leaders in November, he reminded them of his history with ACORN and his beginnings in Illinois as a Project Vote organizer, a nonprofit focused on voter rights and education. Senator Obama said, "I come out of a grassroots organizing background. That's what I did for three and half years before I went to law school. That's the reason I moved to Chicago was to organize. So this is something that I know personally, the work you do, the importance of it. I've been fighting alongside ACORN on issues you care about my entire career. Even before I was an elected official, when I ran Project Vote voter registration drive in Illinois, ACORN was smack dab in the middle of it, and we appreciate your work.”.

Source (http://my.barackobama.com/page/commu...mfelsen/gGC7zm)

That goes directly against what is said on Fight the Smears.
Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

Source (http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor)

Which do we believe? On his own websites, which are supposed to be devoted to the truth, there's a glaring contradiction!

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 03:27 PM
Acorn was not a part of Project Vote, they did however participate in it.

Yar-El
10-10-2008, 03:32 PM
Article: Parties wage war over voter fraud, intimidation (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27100918/)
Subheadline: Democrats see vote suppression, McCain alleges fraud by Obama ally

Republicans allege Democrats and their allies are trying to subvert the voter registration system, and perhaps the election itself, with an avalanche of inaccurate or fraudulent new voter registrations. I want to know the outcome of this problem. We should take care of this fast.

But Democrats charge Republicans are trying to deter would-be voters by discouraging registrations and by requiring voters to identify themselves, in some cases with state-issued photo identification such as a driverís license. Whats wrong with that? I think that would be a great idea. Having people show a U. S. form of identification would allow us to secure the integrity of a election. Birth certificates, I.D., Licences, Green Cards, etc...

Nevada raid on ACORN
In Las Vegas, investigators from the office of Nevada Secretary of State Ross Miller, a Democrat, served a search warrant Tuesday on the ACORN office, as part of an investigation into allegations of voter registration fraud. Millerís agents seized computer hard drives and boxes of documents.
I guess there is some truth to the ACORN issue.

Article #2: Mo. officials suspect fake voter registration (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27091418/)
Advocacy group scrutinized for hundreds of questionable, duplicate forms

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said the agency has been in contact with elections officials about potential voter fraud and plans to investigate.

"It's a matter we take very seriously," Patton said. "It is against the law to register someone to vote who does not fall within the parameters to vote, or to put someone on there falsely."

On Tuesday, authorities in Nevada seized records from ACORN after finding fraudulent registration forms that included the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.

SW01
10-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Whats wrong with that? I think that would be a great idea. Having people show a U. S. form of identification would allow us to secure the integrity of a election. Birth certificates, I.D., Licences, Green Cards, etc...

I agree with that - it just makes sense that you show that you are who you claim to be when you go to vote. That it should be possible to walk into a polling centre and claim to be someone without valid proof of identity seems absurd.

Achilles
10-10-2008, 03:38 PM
Cause it shows that the Republicans accusation has merit.No it doesn't. All it means is that they received a complaint and are now investigating it (this is aka "doing their jobs"). If they find anything, then that will mean that the Republican accusations have merit.

This is like saying that police responding to a bomb threat means that there really is a bomb.

KinchyB
10-10-2008, 04:03 PM
Also I think the people over at Fox News would feel insulted being thrown in with the likes of MSNBC.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read this. Pot calling the kettle black. BAD POT! :D

This is also a nice little gem...

Oh really, name 1 conservative organization that has been involved in committing voter fraud in the 2008 election.

How about we start naming any conservative, liberal, or any other organization that has ever been involved in "voter fraud"...? Why are we only focusing on the last year or so...? :)

Plus let's face it...McCain doesn't stand a chance so this is mostly irrelevant. That's why we are starting to see a lot of finger pointing such as this, and you won't see a lot from the Dems as they aren't worried about it. Negativity in this election only breeds contempt and the election is theirs to lose. :)

Inyri
10-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Whats wrong with that? I think that would be a great idea. Having people show a U. S. form of identification would allow us to secure the integrity of a election. Birth certificates, I.D., Licences, Green Cards, etc...Have you ever actually voted for something? Real hard to go in and get a ballot without showing ID. The election judges usually have a problem with you not identifying yourself and then snatching up a ballot. :)

SW01
10-10-2008, 04:11 PM
Have you ever actually voted for something? Real hard to go in and get a ballot without showing ID. The election judges usually have a problem with you not identifying yourself and then snatching up a ballot. :)

Thought so - voting without ID seemed like a strange idea...:lol:

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 04:20 PM
Yeah I was just thinking about it, if Texas was like the only state that made you verify your identity then something is seriously wrong with the state of the nation.

Yar-El
10-10-2008, 04:22 PM
Have you ever actually voted for something? Real hard to go in and get a ballot without showing ID. The election judges usually have a problem with you not identifying yourself and then snatching up a ballot. :) This is my first election. :xp: :D

Inyri
10-10-2008, 04:32 PM
I'm not surprised. Best not to make assumptions about the election process if you've never experienced it.

GarfieldJL
10-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Yeah I was just thinking about it, if Texas was like the only state that made you verify your identity then something is seriously wrong with the state of the nation.

Indiana requires it, however ACORN specializes in voter fraud.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 09:18 PM
Indiana requires it, however ACORN specializes in voter fraud.

That may be and what they do may be disgusting abuse, but it's not like it'll weight the election. I doubt anyone will give a ballot to someone trying to be registered as Kermit the Frog.

KinchyB
10-10-2008, 09:19 PM
Indiana requires it, however ACORN specializes in voter fraud.

Hmmm...is a comment about sensationalist forum posting considered snarky....? :xp:

Point of clarity...there was "registration fraud" technically speaking, not voter fraud. Also, Achilles was kind enough to post a reply in another thread that mentioned this topic (we have 2 threads going at the moment i think) that could help shed some light on the issue. If you are willing to look at more than what is presented by the media it could be an informative read.

Jae Onasi
10-10-2008, 09:45 PM
That may be and what they do may be disgusting abuse, but it's not like it'll weight the election. I doubt anyone will give a ballot to someone trying to be registered as Kermit the Frog.

They don't have to. Kermit registers and asks for an absentee ballot, then sends it in. It's thrown into a computer along with the thousands of others, and counted, never really looked at by anyone because they're processing too many votes to pay attention.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 10:23 PM
What is the application process for obtaining an absentee ballot?

Ohio law provides separate application processes for different classifications of absentee voters (militia, armed services, overseas, etc.). In all cases, absentee ballots must be applied for in writing. If you are properly registered to vote, you must submit your written request to the board of elections of the county in which your voting residence is located. Your request must contain certain information (described in the following sections) and your original signature.

# Your name;
# Your signature;
# The address at which you are registered to vote;
# Your date of birth;
# One of the following items showing proof of your identification:

1. Your Ohio driver's license number; or
2. The last four digits of your Social Security number; or
3. A copy of your current and valid photo identification, military identification; or a current (within the last 12 months) utility bill (including cell phone bill), bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows your name and current address (including from a public college or university).

Seems most of the states that have absentee ballots have same, if not harsher, regulations these days.

So basically without current and valid identification it's near improbable to commit voter fraud. They've been cracking down after previous concerns of voter fraud.

Jae Onasi
10-10-2008, 11:27 PM
49 workers suspected of election fraud (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=803756).

Inyri--in WI we are not required to show ID to vote. When I voted in the Dem primaries this spring, I went to my poll, gave the clerk my name, she checked to see if that name was in the book, and she gave me a ballot. That was it.

The only time someone has to show any kind of proof of residency is when they sign up with a person who is allowed to register people to vote, i.e. registrars. Anyone who can legally vote can sign up to be a registrar and register other people to vote--it's quite easy to do, because I was one about 15 years back.

In WI, someone who wants to commit election fraud can do it quite easily. He signs up as a registrar. He fills out a bunch of forms, using fake names and the last 4 digits of a bunch of social security numbers, and fills in addresses that he or his cohorts can receive mail at. WI doesn't cross-check SSNs against names. Say one of these fake people he signs up is Kermit Smith. He signs on the corroborator line saying that he's seen the documents that prove that "Kermit" has residency. He takes all these fake forms down to the county election office. Kermit gets put on the list of registered voters along with all the other fake voters that Mr. Fraud "signed up to vote".

Then all these 'fake voters', including 'Kermit' request absentee ballots. As long as they're already registered to vote in WI, they don't have to provide ID when they send in the ballot, per WI's own election rules. Mr. Fraud and cohorts fill in all these absentee ballots for these fake voters and send them in. Mr. Fraud can also round up a 'friend' to go to the polling place and say he's Kermit, and the nice clerk will look it up in the book, see that Kermit is a registered name, and hand Kermit a ballot. Kermit votes. Kermit has all day to vote in all the other districts where Mr. Fraud has signed up fake voters.

WI unfortunately has a system that makes it wide open for abuse, and the legislature here, sadly, has done very little to fix these problems.

El Sitherino
10-10-2008, 11:35 PM
I now know how to commit a felony, awesome.

ChAiNz.2da
10-11-2008, 05:44 AM
Inyri--in WI we are not required to show ID to vote. When I voted in the Dem primaries this spring, I went to my poll, gave the clerk my name, she checked to see if that name was in the book, and she gave me a ballot. That was it.

Same here in Knoxville, TN. All they do is check to see if your name is in "the book". If you're name is there, you get to go push buttons.

If there are any suspected 'discrepancies' they'll ask to see your voter registration card. The scary part is, anyone with half decent Photoshop skills can make one. Mine is a simple brown cardstock (business card) with mundane information and a S.S. number (no picture). Trouble is, they don't cross-check the SS# listed, they just scan the card to see if it 'looks' legit. Not very 'secure' and does little to reassure me it's a deterrent from any fraud. :(

Granted, different states have different methods... but in TN, we have 11 Electoral votes. Definitely not a swing state.. but 11 votes is 11 votes (of 270 needed to win) that, imo, wouldn't be hard to manipulate if you had the resources.

GarfieldJL
10-11-2008, 08:31 PM
In some states there is no way the situation can be anything other than voter fraud because there are more people registering than to population of the county. See Indianapolis, Indiana.

Oh and ACORN is involved there too.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1209468,obama-indiana-rally-mccain-100808.article

http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/obamas-most-dangerous-tie-acorn/

Oh and found something all the way back to 1995 that you have to dig through it but there is connections to ACORN brought up.
Obama continues his organizing work largely through classes for future leaders identified by ACORN and the Centers for New Horizons on the south side. Conducting a session in a New Horizons classroom, Obama, tall and thin, looks very much like an Ivy League graduate student. Dressed casually prep, his tie loosened and his top shirt button unfastened, he leads eight black women from the Grand Boulevard community through a discussion of "what folks should know" about who in Chicago has power and why they have it. It's one of his favorite topics, and the class bubbles with suggestions about how "they" got to be high and mighty.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/obama/951208/

And this was back in 1995, kinda shows Obama was more closely tied to ACORN than he and his campaign admit.

jrrtoken
10-11-2008, 10:23 PM
I suppose ACORN is involved with every dastardly evil in America, am I right?

GarfieldJL
10-13-2008, 06:24 PM
ACORN is under investigation in multiple states for Voter Fraud. This is an extremely serious matter.

Achilles
10-13-2008, 06:30 PM
ACORN is under investigation in multiple states for Voter Fraud. This is an extremely serious matter.A Dose of Reality on the ACORN HysteriaBy Zachary Roth - October 13, 2008, 1:09PM

It's worth taking a moment to step back from the slew of charges leveled over the last week at ACORN, the community-organizing group that Republicans and the McCain campaign have been trying to turn into a bogeyman for fears about vote fraud (and, of course, tie to Barack Obama).

The GOP has accused ACORN of submitting fraudulent voter registration forms numbering in the hundreds or thousands, in battleground states including Ohio, Indiana, Nevada, and Missouri.

But the most important point that's getting lost in the Fox-generated hysteria is that, according to voting experts, even when fraudulent voter registration forms are submitted, they virtually never lead to fraudulent votes being cast. Richard Hasen, a law professor at Loyola and an authority on voting law, wrote in a 2007 op-ed published last year in the Dallas Morning News and noted recently by TPM, that "the idea of massive polling-place fraud (through the use of inflated voter rolls) is inherently incredible," because of the sheer logistical challenges it would require to carry out on a large scale.

In many states, ACORN is required by law to turn in all the forms it collects, though the law differs from state to law, according to experts.

ACORN has consistently said that it flags suspicious forms for election officials. Indeed, in Nevada where last week an ACORN office was raided in an investigation headed by the Secretary of State, ACORN was already cooperating with authorities.

According to a statement from the group which has not been disputed by state officials, in July, ACORN set up a meeting with county elections officials and the Secretary of State's office to urge them to take action on information ACORN had provided. Since then, "ACORN has provided officials with copies and--in some cases--second copies of many of the personnel records and the 'problem card packages' and cover sheets with which we originally identified the problem cards."

It's also worth noting that similar allegations were made against ACORN in the last few election cycles, and several investigations were conducted, none of which found evidence of widespread voter fraud. Many of these were conducted by US attorneys, who were pressured by GOP political figures to investigate the issue, then fired after they failed to come up with sufficient evidence.

So as the GOP campaign to make an issue out of ACORN continues -- and we'll be keeping you posted as it does -- remember that the number of fraudulent votes that will be cast in November as a result of the group's voter-registration activities is close to zero. But the number of valid voters who could potentially have obstacles placed in their way of voting, as a result of the Republican campaign, is far larger.
Please PM for the direct source (potential language concerns).

GarfieldJL
10-13-2008, 06:47 PM
I don't really care what source you're using because the FBI is involved in investigating ACORN, called in by a Democrat from Nevada.


Also you can't tell me that this is a farce, because Indianapolis has more people registered to vote than are eligible to vote in the first place. A 105% voter registration?

You can't tell me that this is a farce because a Federal Judge has stepped in concerning ballots in Ohio.

Given how close elections have been of recent, voter fraud could throw this election in key states.

Achilles
10-13-2008, 06:52 PM
I addressed this failed argument way back in post #14. I'll simply repeat what I stated there and continue to wait patiently for a response.

GarfieldJL
10-13-2008, 06:58 PM
I addressed this failed argument way back in post #14. I'll simply repeat what I stated there and continue to wait patiently for a response.

Yes and your post 14 doesn't bother to take into account the sources I gathered, nor does it take into account that 105% of eligible voters are registered in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Nor have you addressed the fact that the Obama Campaign donated $800,000 to get out the vote to ACORN.

Yar-El
10-13-2008, 07:39 PM
ACORN Fraud & Obama Ties (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM708EjH0bs)
It speaks for itself.

Achilles
10-13-2008, 08:53 PM
Yes and your post 14 doesn't bother to take into account the sources I gathered, nor does it take into account that 105% of eligible voters are registered in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Nor have you addressed the fact that the Obama Campaign donated $800,000 to get out the vote to ACORN.This doesn't address post 14 either. Keep trying.

GarfieldJL
10-13-2008, 08:57 PM
This doesn't address post 14 either. Keep trying.

Achilles, if you hadn't noticed Yar'El hauled in another source, a liberal one this time that is bringing up voter fraud, also I'm not going to repeat myself from what I said in my first few posts that completely contradict post 14.

A federal judge had to step in on the Ohio Secretary of State trying to get these fraudulent balots through, and there is testimony of ACORN getting people to register as many as 73 times in Ohio.

Achilles
10-13-2008, 09:03 PM
No, I don't see Yar-El's post, so I wouldn't have noticed.

If you actually understood what post 14 said, you'd realize that it has absolutely nothing to do with your first few posts. FBI investigation. Big...****ing...deal. That's what they do. That's their job. They investigate things. An investigation is not proof of guilt. It's proof of an investigation.

So, please, for the sake of your own credibility, stop waiving around "investigation" as evidence of wrongdoing.

Yar-El
10-14-2008, 12:39 AM
GarfieldJL,

Some of Obama's followers are selectively blind. We can post a massive list of crimes, and a good chunk of Obama's flock will not see the evidence. Achilles must have my posts blocked, but I will not hold anything against him. He doesn't like my comments for some reason, and he is in his own right to ignore me. McCain is not a clean guy either; however, I know where he has been sleeping at night. Anyone votting for Obama after presenting all of our evidence is just blinded. We can list McCain's errors and faults, and they will pitch in on the lynching. Obama's questionable past, affiliations, and actual crimes don't matter to these people. Obama is a problem. Obama is a big problem. I don't think we are doing any justice here.

I still think these folks are genuine; however, I don't see any truth in this particular debate. I give Obama's followers deep respect for conviction. I wish you all good luck on election day. :)

GarfieldJL
10-15-2008, 12:24 PM
Yar-El's source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM708EjH0bs

CNN btw has a History of being to the left of center.

ET Warrior
10-15-2008, 01:10 PM
I find this voter fraud 'omg Obama is going to steal the election' business to be rather nonsensical. Why would Obama be concerned about committing voter fraud when every single poll has him up by sizable margins, and seven national polls give him a double digit advantage?

five thirty eight (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com) gives McCain a scant 4% chance at winning this election.

GarfieldJL
10-15-2008, 01:13 PM
I find this voter fraud 'omg Obama is going to steal the election' business to be rather nonsensical. Why would Obama be concerned about committing voter fraud when every single poll has him up by sizable margins, and seven national polls give him a double digit advantage?

five thirty eight (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com) gives McCain a scant 4% chance at winning this election.

This election isn't over till election day (if even then with all the other stuff), and the ACORN thing could be a real game changer.

ET Warrior
10-15-2008, 01:23 PM
Th the ACORN thing could be a real game changer.I find it unlikely as the McCain campaign tried really hard to push it the last several weeks and it has done nothing but hurt them.

mimartin
10-15-2008, 01:25 PM
I find this voter fraud 'omg Obama is going to steal the election' business to be rather nonsensical. Why would Obama be concerned about committing voter fraud when every single poll has him up by sizable margins, and seven national polls give him a double digit advantage?
:nod: Even Fox News (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/10/fox-news-poll-obama-46-mccain-39/)gives Obama a 46 to 39 margin.

GarfieldJL
10-15-2008, 01:30 PM
:nod: Even Fox News (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/10/fox-news-poll-obama-46-mccain-39/)gives Obama a 46 to 39 margin.

In McCain's first race for office he polled dead last at 4% for a while then came from behind...

His campaign was considered dead this time last year.


And I've been monitoring other sites, and the ACORN argument is starting to get traction.

ET Warrior
10-15-2008, 01:50 PM
And I've been monitoring other sites, and the ACORN argument is starting to get traction.Oh? Are any of them not extremely conservative sites? Because it doesn't really matter if the people who were already going to vote for McCain care about ACORN since they were going to vote for him regardless.

GarfieldJL
10-15-2008, 02:03 PM
Oh? Are any of them not extremely conservative sites? Because it doesn't really matter if the people who were already going to vote for McCain care about ACORN since they were going to vote for him regardless.

So you mean to tell me that people aren't concerned that a candidate for President could be directly complicit in Voter Fraud, remember he paid them $800,000 then mislabled it in his report to the FEC.

ET Warrior
10-15-2008, 03:47 PM
I mean to tell you that most people are probably able to look at the polls and numbers and deduce that it is highly unlikely that voter fraud is at all necessary for Obama to win this election by a very sizable margin.

Additionally, I will take your lack of providing of sources to mean that the 'ACORN issue is gaining momentum' statement means that it is gaining momentum among the extremely conservative group who is grasping desperately at straws to try and slow down the momentum that Obama currently has. This of course has little relevance on whether or not it is influencing the undecided voters, which continued polls would indicate it is not.

KinchyB
10-15-2008, 04:07 PM
Additionally, I will take your lack of providing of sources to mean that the 'ACORN issue is gaining momentum' statement means that it is gaining momentum among the extremely conservative group who is grasping desperately at straws to try and slow down the momentum that Obama currently has. This of course has little relevance on whether or not it is influencing the undecided voters, which continued polls would indicate it is not.

QFT

In other related news...

MORE VOTER FRAUD (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/montana_gop_chief_out_after_fa.php) (there is a section for comments here, so please be advised that some language may be inappropriate for children, thank you.) ...interesting quote... The commenters behaved and kept it clean enough so we could leave the link here. :) --Jae

Democrats in the state had gone to court to block the challenges. The Republicans withdrew them before a ruling was made, but not before the judge issued an order charging: "The timing of these challenges is so transparent that it defies common sense to believe the purpose is anything but political chicanery."

:xp:

GarfieldJL
10-15-2008, 06:27 PM
QFT

In other related news...

MORE VOTER FRAUD (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/montana_gop_chief_out_after_fa.php) (there is a section for comments here, so please be advised that some language may be inappropriate for children, thank you.) ...interesting quote...



:xp:

And back to Ohio...
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-voter-registration-lawsuit,0,7676394.story

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/president/30984579.html

http://www.wgntv.com/landing_national/?Full-federal-appeals-court-sides-with-Oh=1&blockID=99807&feedID=23

Seems to me the Republicans are on to something.

Additionally, I will take your lack of providing of sources to mean that the 'ACORN issue is gaining momentum' statement means that it is gaining momentum among the extremely conservative group who is grasping desperately at straws to try and slow down the momentum that Obama currently has. This of course has little relevance on whether or not it is influencing the undecided voters, which continued polls would indicate it is not.

It has to do with reports of posts being deleted on Obama forum sites and people being banned, after expressing concern about the ACORN issue.

The difference between this situation and Ayers is because he gave them campaign money, and there is an FBI investigation involved.

It also looks like the Hillary Clinton supporters are fired up, basically the line is Obama had ACORN help him cheat, among other things. I'm going to treat it as a rumor for now but if this is true we have a game changer.

http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/10/11/angry-hillary-supporters-helping-obama-voter-fraud-investigation/

Note: I have no idea what the documentary videos will say, cause I don't have audio currently.


Here is a pro Hillary site http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=35498
Another pro-Hillary site http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/clinton-supporters-sharing-evidence-for-rico-case-against-obama-campaign/

I'm waiting for someone else to pick this up for confirmation though, other than flopping aces and Hillary supporter sites.


EDIT: Found something else that links Obama with ACORN http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-election-2008/republicans-link-rival-to-voter-fraud-scheme-20081015-51hf.html
Senator Obama helped Acorn and other groups register voters in 1992 when he was the director of Project Vote and last year hailed it for being "smack dab in the middle" of increasing voter participation. Acorn has endorsed Senator Obama in the presidential election.

KinchyB
10-15-2008, 08:58 PM
And back to Ohio...

You do realize that you are comparing invalid voter registrations to the GOP actively trying to prevent the other party from voting....right?

Given your blatant bias I doubt it, but worth pointing out.

ET Warrior
10-16-2008, 02:29 AM
And has been pointed out on several occasions, in several threads, voter registration fraud is not the same as actual voter fraud. Voter registration fraud doesn't impact an election because people who don't exist but are registered to vote don't actually vote. Because they don't exist.

Achilles
10-16-2008, 02:31 AM
Nevermind that the election hasn't even taken place yet.

...in case those non-people actually did intend to vote.

GarfieldJL
10-16-2008, 12:23 PM
And has been pointed out on several occasions, in several threads, voter registration fraud is not the same as actual voter fraud. Voter registration fraud doesn't impact an election because people who don't exist but are registered to vote don't actually vote. Because they don't exist.

Oh but it is, especially in Ohio, ever heard of same day registration, they can submit an absentee ballot in with their voter registration without any real identification.


Anyways Obama is trying to cover up the depth of his associations with ACORN and now trying to Cover up the cover up.
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/7203
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/oops-obama-camp-caught-scrubbing-its.html

ET Warrior
10-16-2008, 12:32 PM
Oh but it is, especially in Ohio, ever heard of same day registration, they can submit an absentee ballot in with their voter registration without any real identification.If it's as easy as all that why have all investigations past and present found no incident of major voter fraud? The only thing that's ever been discovered is voter registration fraud. Remember that the actual voter fraud is likely going to have to be in massive numbers in order to sway a presidential election.

Web Rider
10-16-2008, 12:40 PM
Oh but it is, especially in Ohio, ever heard of same day registration, they can submit an absentee ballot in with their voter registration without any real identification.

no, so I googled it. It's a new ruling actually, as of September 30th through august 6th, voters can register AND vote on the same day. And yes, no ID is required.

They CANNOT register AND vote on "election day" Nov 4th.

ET Warrior
10-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Indeed, and from August 6th to November 4th is a lot of time for election officials to determine if those votes come from eligible sources.

Web Rider
10-16-2008, 12:52 PM
Indeed, and from August 6th to November 4th is a lot of time for election officials to determine if those votes come from eligible sources.

Sorry, my brain was backwards when I wrote that, it's September 30th to October 6th. So the deadline still passed quite some time ago.

GarfieldJL
10-16-2008, 12:54 PM
If it's as easy as all that why have all investigations past and present found no incident of major voter fraud? The only thing that's ever been discovered is voter registration fraud. Remember that the actual voter fraud is likely going to have to be in massive numbers in order to sway a presidential election.

Excuse me, but what investigation? The Ohio Secretary of State is still stonewalling. And lot of elections have been decided recently by a few hundred votes, and we're looking at potentially thousands fraudulent ballots, fraudulent voter registrations, etc.


Anyways, the voter fraud (remember many of them are being submitted with absentee ballots and no photo ID) situation can be proven true just using math that I believe even a kindergartner could understand.

Indianapolis, Indiana 105% of the population that is eligible to vote is registered. In other words there are more people registered than are legally eligible to vote.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/more_voter_registration_shenanigans_indianapolis_h as_105_of_its_population/
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2008/10/07/news/top_news/doc775d398de8488399862574da008320af.txt
Nevada - FBI raided ACORN offices
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/100808dnspocowvote.303ea03.html

Even MSNBC can't deny it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27075582/

Missouri: ACORN is under investigation yet again, oh and people have been convicted before.
In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_ge/voter_fraud

ET Warrior
10-16-2008, 12:58 PM
whoops! I actually read an article on the early voting but accidentally echoed the August typo as well.

Still an entire month for election officials to go over early votes is more than enough to weed out most if not all ineligible votes that were cast.

Edit - You really ought to read the articles you're linking GarfieldJL, one of them explicitly states that ACORN themselves notified officials about the fraudulent registrations
Charles Jackson, communications director for ACORN, said Monday its administrators screened out the 1,100 registration forms in question and warned county officials the documents were suspect. He said ACORN left the final decision to discard the forms to county officials.

He said ACORN has fired and reported to law enforcement any employees suspected of vote fraud.

"We consider it stealing from ACORN," Jackson said

GarfieldJL
10-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Still an entire month for election officials to go over early votes is more than enough to weed out most if not all ineligible votes that were cast.

Actually, we're down to a few days now due to Ohio law, unless the US Supreme Court orders an extension on the deadline due to the Ohio Secretary of State's stonewalling and preventing these absentee ballots from being checked, once they are opened there is no way to figure out which one is legit and which isn't and she knows that.

Rake
10-16-2008, 08:39 PM
Last time I checked, Voter Fraud did not equal Election Fraud (correct me if I am mistaken). From my understanding, the workers paid by the amount of cards filled out, are just making up names. So are "Han Solo," and "Mickey Mouse," really going to vote (again, correct me if I am mistaken)?

Achilles
10-16-2008, 10:02 PM
Nope, pretty sure that you hit the crux of the real issue (not the fake one) right on the head. Kudos.

KinchyB
10-16-2008, 10:09 PM
Last time I checked, Voter Fraud did not equal Election Fraud (correct me if I am mistaken). From my understanding, the workers paid by the amount of cards filled out, are just making up names. So are "Han Solo," and "Mickey Mouse," really going to vote (again, correct me if I am mistaken)?

Depends if you are of the feline persuasion or not... in the human world we like to call reality no they are not the same thing. So you are correct. :D

GarfieldJL
10-17-2008, 01:30 PM
Last time I checked, Voter Fraud did not equal Election Fraud (correct me if I am mistaken). From my understanding, the workers paid by the amount of cards filled out, are just making up names. So are "Han Solo," and "Mickey Mouse," really going to vote (again, correct me if I am mistaken)?

If we're talking about Ohio, then the answer would be yes, because they don't have to show ID in the absentee ballots.

There are a few other states where this is the case.


Anyways looks like the supreme court just threw the election to Obama. They are basically saying that a private citizen can't sue the state. Since Ohio's governor is a Democrat, any credibility in this election has been thrown out the window.

The Secretary argues both that the District Court had no jurisdiction to enter the TRO and that its ruling on the merits was erroneous. We express no opinion on the question whether HAVA is being properly implemented. Respondents, however, are not sufficiently likely to prevail on the question whether Congress has authorized the District Courtto enforce Section 303 in an action brought by a private litigant to justify the issuance of a TRO.
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/08pdf/08A332.pdf


So as one can see they didn't even rule on the fact she was breaking the law, they just basically argued that they weren't even allowed to sue. I'm going to guess right off the cuff that this was a 5-4 ruling, the 4 liberals plus justice Kennedy (the swing vote) are the majority, and the 4 conservative justices are the minority.

Achilles
10-17-2008, 05:11 PM
There probably isn't going to be a lot of new info here for people that have been following this via legitimate news sources, however I thought it might be a helpful "level-set" nonetheless.

Link (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1i507fXjfsBwZ92ujqRSSV12niAD93RSCE80)

GarfieldJL
10-18-2008, 12:56 AM
There probably isn't going to be a lot of new info here for people that have been following this via legitimate news sources, however I thought it might be a helpful "level-set" nonetheless.

Link (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1i507fXjfsBwZ92ujqRSSV12niAD93RSCE80)

I don't really care what the left wing propaganda's excuse for journalism, the AP says, they have as much credibility as the New York Times and ABC news, no credibility whatsoever.

ABC News using Obama Contributer as Expert witness:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/terry-trippany/2008/10/17/abc-news-used-obama-contributor-expert-defense-acorn

NBC and MSNBC example conflict of interest:

"Meet the Press" interim moderator Tom Brokaw sits on the board of a liberal foundation that has given radical left-wing group ACORN $821,000 and that in turn is funded by liberal uber-donor George Soros, research reveals.


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-vadum/2008/10/17/flash-tom-brokaw-involved-soros-funded-charity-funds-acorn

An example of the AP's lack of credibility:
Well, the AP has done it again. They have given us leftist propaganda and painted it as news. This time they have published the results of a "study" that claims that "Bush lied" in the run-up to Iraq and somehow the AP forgot to mention that the organization that released this study was funded by extreme leftist George Soros, who has spent billions funding the Democrat Party and many far left think tank and advocacy organizations. Yeah, THAT study is going to be legitimate!

Another link about the AP:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/02/16/ap-attacks-mccains-temper-edited-f-words

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2007/07/29/acorn-vote-registration-fraud-wa-are-there-2004-ramifications

Relates to Photo IDs for Voter ID:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jason-aslinger/2008/04/29/supreme-court-splintered-only-conservative-decisions

Now I actually quoted the ruling, and to be frank the Supreme Court only said that the GOP didn't have any authority to sue in the first place which is garbage.

I also know the current makeup of the Supreme Court because we've covered it in my History Class concerning the United States Constitution.

KinchyB
10-18-2008, 01:00 AM
I don't really care what the left wing propaganda's excuse for journalism, the AP says, they have as much credibility as the New York Times and ABC news, no credibility whatsoever.

An example of the AP's lack of credibility:

Now I actually quoted the ruling, and to be frank the Supreme Court only said that the GOP didn't have any authority to sue in the first place which is garbage.

I also know the current makeup of the Supreme Court because we've covered it in my History Class concerning the United States Constitution.

You know, you could shorten your posts considerably by just saying "Any source that does not share my exact right wing point of view is invalid".

Achilles
10-18-2008, 01:01 AM
I don't really care what the left wing propaganda's excuse for journalism, the AP saysNo, I think we're all quite aware that you only care what right wing propaganda's excuse for journalism has to say.

ADFO

GarfieldJL
10-18-2008, 01:15 AM
No, I think we're all quite aware that you only care what right wing propaganda's excuse for journalism has to say.

ADFO

Actually, considering that most journalists (in the United States) believe it or not are registered democrats and it is extremely difficult for conservatives to survive in the news business because any mistake they make will be jumped all over by left wingers in the Main Steam media, I would find a conservative news source more reliable and here is why.


Comparison it's a logic reasoning:
When one of the rest of the media makes a gaff or is dishonest, they don't pick up on that fact as being dishonest, or they report it as though it's true, or they calmly sweep it under the rug and walk away.

If someone on Fox News makes even an accidental gaff or even as minute as a typo, you have everyone and their grandma in the mainstream media jumping all over them trying to paint them as dishonest.

In conclusion:

Fox News gets held to a higher standard than the "establishment" because the mainstream media is so eager to find any fault they can to discredit them. Therefore, it seems like Fox News is more credible because they aren't in the "good ol boys" network.

Anyways stop trying to paint me as an idealogue, it took time for Fox News to earn my trust, and I did my own research on the side. (Like actually reading the Supreme Court Ruling).

Achilles
10-18-2008, 01:16 AM
My response (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise)

ADFO

Det. Bart Lasiter
10-18-2008, 01:21 AM
Anyways stop trying to paint me as an idealogue, it took time for Fox News to earn my trust, and I did my own research on the side. (Like actually reading the Supreme Court Ruling).

Ehh... stop acting like an ideologue then? You tout sources with blatant biases (you need only look at the top of the page of the "Newsbusters" site you just linked to to ascertain their slant on things) and then slam every news source for being biased whenever their bias doesn't coincide with yours.

GarfieldJL
10-18-2008, 01:26 AM
Nevermind that the election hasn't even taken place yet.

...in case those non-people actually did intend to vote.

Once the absentee ballots are open there is no way to match up which ones came from the fraudulent registrations.


That's what the Ohio Secretary of State is counting on, and the FBI is involved in several states investigating the matter.

Achilles
10-18-2008, 01:35 AM
Step 1: When cornered, ignore point and respond to 2 day old post.
Step 2: Hope no one notices.

ADFO.

Yar-El
10-20-2008, 12:10 PM
Article - Obama's General Counsel Asks Special Prosecutor to Investigate McCain Campaign's Claims of Voter Fraud (http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2008/10/obamas-general.html)

Robert Bauer, general counsel for Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign, sent a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey requesting that special prosecutor Nora Dannehy add recent allegations of partisan misconduct within the Justice Department to her investigation of criminal offenses stemming from the 2006 U.S. Attorney firings.

In his letter, Bauer, a partner in Perkins Coie's Washington office, alleges that Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign and the Republican Party made false claims of voting fraud as part of a Republican effort to influence the presidential election. The letter accuses Republican officeholders of calling on the Justice Department to investigate allegations of fraud, and Justice Department officials of spurring what he called "baseless" investigations.

“History is repeating itself. As Election Day approaches — just as in 2004 and 2006 — Republican Party officials and operatives nationwide, including the candidates themselves, are fomenting specious vote fraud allegations, and there are disturbing indications of official involvement or collusion,” Bauer writes.

Bauer says a McCain assertion during Wednesday’s presidential debate -- that voter fraud threatened “the fabric of democracy” -- is an example of a false claim. Bauer is wrong. Voter fraud does threaten the integrity of our election process.

In a teleconference call today, Bauer said the McCain campaign’s claims of voter fraud put unnecessary pressure on the Justice Department to investigate unsubstantiated allegations and that two officials within the department had anonymously leaked information about fraud investigations to the media. Untrue. We need to make sure our election process is safe from fraud; thus, allowing the American citizen to execute a more credible and secure process. More pressure on the Justice Department will get things moving. We can't let this fall to the side.

Not to mention the voting fraud claims were proven to be true.

ET Warrior
10-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Not to mention the voting fraud claims were proven to be true.Voter registration fraud happened. Not the same thing.

mimartin
10-20-2008, 12:55 PM
Voter fraud does threaten the integrity of our election process. It certainly does. Just as it has in the last two elections.
We need to make sure our election process is safe from fraud; thus, allowing the American citizen to execute a more credible and secure process. More pressure on the Justice Department will get things moving. We can't let this fall to the side. Agree, but seeing how they have not jump on vote counting errors like the Volusia error from 2000. I would not count on it.

Not to mention the voting fraud claims were proven to be true.
When? Not in this election process.

Yar-El
10-20-2008, 01:07 PM
Voter registration fraud happened. Not the same thing. ET Warrior pointed out my error. :lol: I missed the word registration. :headbump

Tommycat
10-21-2008, 07:23 AM
It certainly does. Just as it has in the last two elections.

Where have you been? Voter fraud isn't new. It isn't a 12 year old event. It's been a problem since before Kennedy(at least). It has been noticed more as of late, but the problem goes back a long way. Unless of course the dead keep rising from their graves to vote... then we got a bigger problem to deal with... :eek:

*pulls out handbook on fighting undead*

mimartin
10-21-2008, 08:31 AM
Where have you been? Voter fraud isn't new. It makes a bigger difference when the country is so divided and the vote is so close. Oh and it is not just the dead voting that is the problem. It is also those that never even show up to the polls and those that actually somehow come back to the polls and take away their votes after voting. Someone explain to me how you can get negative votes.

Samuel Dravis
10-21-2008, 10:24 AM
Using voting machines that have been known to be horribly insecure for two+ years?

Jae Onasi
10-21-2008, 11:07 AM
Where have you been? Voter fraud isn't new. It isn't a 12 year old event. It's been a problem since before Kennedy(at least). It has been noticed more as of late, but the problem goes back a long way. Unless of course the dead keep rising from their graves to vote... then we got a bigger problem to deal with... :eek:

*pulls out handbook on fighting undead*

Hey, Chicago has a great history of registering the dead in order to vote early and often. :lol:

Voter fraud doesn't happen until the actual election, of course, but can anyone tell me what the point is for voter registration fraud, if not to be able to commit voter fraud later on? I don't think ACORN's planning on turning them into Christmas cards. :) We can split hairs all we want on voter registration fraud vs. voter fraud, and they are different, but the end result is still voter fraud if any of those false registrations are used for voting.

We have 49 people (and counting) in WI having little chats with authorities now because they've allegedly committed voter registration fraud, and the concern here is that those false registrations will be used by people associated with ACORN and even Obama staff to vote for Obama now. It's a very serious issue here because WI is one of the swing states. The fact that these 49 people are from ACORN (and a related group) and Obama has been associated with ACORN does not help Obama at all, even though there's no evidence Obama committed any kind of fraud and Obama has in fact denounced voter registration/voter fraud.

I think I mentioned in another thread that the issue isn't if Obama's complicit in Acorn's voter registration fraud problems, the issue is 'what happens if the vote is very close in swing states'. If it is close, those states where ACORN has been very active or where there are a lot of allegations of registration fraud are going to be mired in lawsuits and investigations for months, and we surely do not need another repeat of 2000.

ET Warrior
10-21-2008, 11:23 AM
The voter registration fraud happens because the people ACORN hires to register voters don't want to do any actual work, so they just fill out of a bunch of cards and turn them in to get their wages.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html

Jae Onasi
10-21-2008, 11:50 AM
The voter registration fraud happens because the people ACORN hires to register voters don't want to do any actual work, so they just fill out of a bunch of cards and turn them in to get their wages.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html

Can you guarantee that none of those fraudulent registrations are going to get used for voter fraud?

ET Warrior
10-21-2008, 12:11 PM
No, and I also cannot guarantee that Barack Obama isn't really a robot sent from the future to destroy us all. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Jae Onasi
10-21-2008, 01:32 PM
Well, hopefully voter fraud/registration fraud will never be an issue where you vote.

Unfortunately, I think we will see voter fraud stemming from voter registration fraud. I don't think it will necessarily be confined to one party, by the way.

ET Warrior
10-21-2008, 01:46 PM
http://lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2538223&postcount=32

Jae Onasi
10-21-2008, 03:57 PM
I understand that it's likely to be nothing more than a bunch of people who registered fake people to get paid, but the integrity of the entire process is still in question. If we had a good way to find and remove all the fake registrations, no problem, other than for the people who violated the law for filing these false registrations. However, we don't, and we don't know how many fake registrations are going to be used, and if it will have an effect on the election. Achilles' source says this: "even when fraudulent voter registration forms are submitted, they virtually never lead to fraudulent votes being cast."
"Virtually never" is not the same as "never". Nor is there a credible source quoted saying how many fraud votes have indeed been made. The truth is we have no idea how many fraudulent votes have been cast in the past, and we might not know how many, if any, are fraudulent this time, either. The goal, however, should still be ZERO fraud, and brushing this off as no big deal because these people just wanted to make some money filling out forms is irresponsible. It is a huge concern in my state because of the sheer numbers of people found filing fraudulent registrations--not just in ACORN but in at least one other organization, too. We have 49 people who filed thousands of false registrations here in WI (and if you prefer a more liberal source, check out the Milwaukee Sentinel-Journal), and no one knows what's going to happen with those registrations. Once someone is listed as registered in WI, they don't have to show any ID to vote, so we aren't going to be able to catch those committing voter fraud at the polls. WI won't even cross-check addresses on voter registrations against drivers' licenses because "it would be too difficult to do that with the database we have".

People here can blithely write it off as right-wing hysterics, but in my state, I can no longer count on voter integrity because of some groups taking horrible advantage of a badly broken system in WI. Voter fraud works both ways--ACORN may be the most highlighted group right now, but what if some Republican groups are doing the same thing, just much more quietly? I want as many legitimate people as possible to get registered to vote and then go to the polls to get their voices heard. I do not, however, want my vote negated by some slimeball manipulating the system, and there's a very real concern about that happening in my state.

mimartin
10-21-2008, 11:53 PM
Wait the other side is doing this too? YPM (http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE49K0A120081021)

Tommycat
10-22-2008, 12:30 AM
I wonder how many people would change their tunes if it was a Republican group caught doing this. Actually I'm sure there are Republicans doing this. The scary part is we really have no idea how bad the problem is.

mimartin
10-22-2008, 01:03 AM
I wonder how many people would change their tunes if it was a Republican group caught doing this. Actually I'm sure there are Republicans doing this. The scary part is we really have no idea how bad the problem is.
The Republican's have been caught doing it. (see link above) Why do you think McCain and Palin have suddenly gone silent on these charges? YPM (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,6338789.story) or Lincoln Strategy (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/103846/_mccain_employing_gop_operative_accused_of_voter_r egistration_fraud/)

Not saying two wrongs makes a right, but both sides are involved.

Jae Onasi
10-23-2008, 10:32 PM
Oh, even better--hundreds of ballots that were supposed to have been mailed to voters in Racine, WI did not make it to those voters. No one knows where those ballots are--if they've been stolen, if they're still sitting on someone's desk somewhere, or what. New ones were sent out with instructions to destroy the new one if the person already sent in the old one. Of course, even though the ballots are numbered, there's no way to know if the first ballot or the second one is actually the correct ballot....I'm so disgusted with all the voting problems and outright fraud.

GarfieldJL
10-25-2008, 07:14 PM
Remember though some states were decided by only a few thousand votes, and we could be looking at 200,000 questionable ballots in Ohio alone.

Btw. Kudos to Lou Dobbs for reporting on this:

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/10/02/lou-dobbs-alone-msm-skeptical-ohio-early-voting-abuse