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Nedak
10-18-2008, 06:19 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

If you have time to watch it I would suggest doing so. Extremely interesting to say the least.

This is by the way the sequel to the first Zeitgeist film.


Also the offical website:

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

and

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Achilles
10-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Meh. While some of the content is worth enduring the movie to see, the production is very gimmicky.

Nedak
10-18-2008, 07:12 PM
Meh. While some of the content is worth enduring the movie to see, the production is very gimmicky.

How so?

Web Rider
10-18-2008, 10:40 PM
oiy, I had to put up with this thrice on the DeviantArt forums, can't believe it's here too.

Nedak
10-18-2008, 10:42 PM
Explaining why you don't like these films, instead of making bold statements would be helpful.

Achilles
10-19-2008, 12:18 AM
How so?The grainy intro for each section. Overly long speech clips with the unnecessary reverb/repeat thing. It's supposed to come off as ominous or important, but mostly it's just aggravating.

Nedak
10-19-2008, 12:39 AM
The grainy intro for each section. Overly long speech clips with the unnecessary reverb/repeat thing. It's supposed to come off as ominous or important, but mostly it's just aggravating.

I don't mind the echo, but the graphics were annoying.

tk102
10-19-2008, 01:03 AM
I found the messages in this movie enlightening in some places, thought-provoking in others, and resonant with a number of my own beliefs. Thanks han sala.

Web Rider
10-19-2008, 01:20 AM
Explaining why you don't like these films, instead of making bold statements would be helpful.

Because at best I find them to be bad propaganda films. They splice in dramatic music, ominous footage, and make parallels to things that aren't related just by showing them next to or interlaced with the other thing they're saying it's related to.

And I'd hardly claim that saying "oiy not again." is a bold statement.

It's really no different then the ultra-political spam where everything has a semi-transparent flag or statue of liberty or tank or warplane behind it. It doesn't even appeal to emotion very well IMO.

tk102
10-19-2008, 01:28 AM
You're saying the movie is similar to propaganda, but you didn't actually come out and say that it is propaganda. That would suggest that the purveyors of the video are trying gain some sort of advantage from disinformation. Or is that what you actually meant?

Otherwise I'm just hearing critiques of the style, but not critiques of the message.

Achilles
10-19-2008, 01:34 AM
I have no critiques of the message for the parts that I have seen. Unfortunately, I do find the style sufficiently distracting to keep me from seeing the whole thing, much to my chagrin. Perhaps someday I'll overcome my lack of dedication :)

Nedak
10-19-2008, 02:03 AM
The movie is quite simple..

It shows how much of a lie money is and how it really is worth nothing. This is actually a widely accepted statement.

It also reveals some evil that our government has done to other countries and also gives a resolution to all of the problems stated.

Arcesious
10-19-2008, 02:37 AM
I've seen bits and peices of the first movie before, it makes some good points, but I find the 'OMG government conspiracies' parts of it to be a bit overdone.

Nedak
10-19-2008, 02:50 AM
I've seen bits and peices of the first movie before, it makes some good points, but I find the 'OMG government conspiracies' parts of it to be a bit overdone.

The second part isn't as much like that. The conspiracies are so-so but the second one in my opinion is far better.

Web Rider
10-19-2008, 03:23 AM
You're saying the movie is similar to propaganda, but you didn't actually come out and say that it is propaganda. That would suggest that the purveyors of the video are trying gain some sort of advantage from disinformation. Or is that what you actually meant?

Otherwise I'm just hearing critiques of the style, but not critiques of the message.

Yes that's largely true. I don't disagree with most of their points, at least on what the problems are. Their solutions(of which are mostly out of mind at the moment), are from what I recall, somewhat dubious.

The movie is quite simple..

It shows how much of a lie money is and how it really is worth nothing. This is actually a widely accepted statement.
To which I'd agree that Fiat money is a pretty bad idea. Yes, in theory money is always worth nothing, only the value we assign it based on the goods and or services we deem a specific amount of it is worth. Money as a concept as a replacement for a direct barter-trade, service for goods/goods for goods/service for service setup is pretty functional.

It also reveals some evil that our government has done to other countries and also gives a resolution to all of the problems stated.
Which 90% of the people watching the movie are already aware of. As for their solutions, anyone can provide solutions to just about anything. That doesn't make them the right, or even good solutions.

Nedak
10-19-2008, 01:33 PM
Yes that's largely true. I don't disagree with most of their points, at least on what the problems are. Their solutions(of which are mostly out of mind at the moment), are from what I recall, somewhat dubious.
The last Zeitgeist didn't offer many solutions except to say that we are all one, but the new one did. It's not perfect, but it seems to be a great start.

The venus project is in my post


To which I'd agree that Fiat money is a pretty bad idea. Yes, in theory money is always worth nothing, only the value we assign it based on the goods and or services we deem a specific amount of it is worth. Money as a concept as a replacement for a direct barter-trade, service for goods/goods for goods/service for service setup is pretty functional.
That's not all that they cover. Find some time to watch it.


Which 90% of the people watching the movie are already aware of. As for their solutions, anyone can provide solutions to just about anything. That doesn't make them the right, or even good solutions.
Not some of the evils they have exposed. This goes for the Drug War, assassinating leaders for our own profit, etc.

ForeverNight
10-19-2008, 01:53 PM
...assassinating leaders for our own profit...

As opposed to? Also, I don't know if you're aware of it, but under... I think it was the Ford Administration, an Executive Order was drafted and created that outlawed assassination by any agent of the United States Government.

So, assuming that they play by their own rules, it ain't happening in peace time. During war, however, everybody's fair game.

Not some of the evils they have exposed.

Evil by who's definition? Theirs? I'm sorry, but according to me that statement you just made is evil.

See my point? Just because they arbitrarily say that something's evil, doesn't make it so. I guess I believe that sometimes the end justifies the means. But, oh well, that's a debate for another thread.

tk102
10-19-2008, 02:04 PM
Regarding the first portion of the movie (ie. our monetary system), I'm sending a letter to FRONTLINE (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/) in the hopes that they'll cover it in an upcoming episode. This is the kind of topic that you won't find in mainstream media, but one that requires more public discussion and understanding.

If you'd like to also send a letter suggesting this as a story idea, here is their address:

Story Editor
FRONTLINE
One Guest Street
Boston, MA 02135



I see that it was primarily based upon Ellen Brown's book, Web of Debt (http://www.webofdebt.com/). Probably a good resource to pick up next time I'm in the library or bookstore.

Nedak
10-19-2008, 02:22 PM
As opposed to? Also, I don't know if you're aware of it, but under... I think it was the Ford Administration, an Executive Order was drafted and created that outlawed assassination by any agent of the United States Government.

So, assuming that they play by their own rules, it ain't happening in peace time. During war, however, everybody's fair game.
It was in time of peace..

Please just watch the movie before debating.



Evil by who's definition? Theirs? I'm sorry, but according to me that statement you just made is evil.

See my point? Just because they arbitrarily say that something's evil, doesn't make it so. I guess I believe that sometimes the end justifies the means. But, oh well, that's a debate for another thread.
They never said it was evil.. It was a word I used to describe the actions of the government.

This is pointless.

Do you debate about books as well before reading them?

Rathoris
10-19-2008, 04:03 PM
even if half of what they claim in this movie is true it's rather obviously the current state of the world is far from the most desirable.
I pretty much agree with the solution they offer since this is what i have always believed in. The problem is how to implement it.... :xp:
How do you 'beat' a system that isn't afraid to use violence to enforce it's will upon us. Maybe coming up with a peacefull solution is impossible. Then what? We have a massive global revolution?

Batono
11-24-2008, 10:53 PM
Well my friends from the north i'm from Argentina and i just wanted to recomend you a pretty good documentary, WWW.ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM it' has to parts,
the fisrt one is Zeitgeist movie, the second one Zeitgeist Adendum.
The movie is about all the lies that have been told to us and how to make the world a better place. I do realize that most of you will see me as another latin guy trying to afect you minds or something, but this picture was made by americans for americans, and i strongly believe that all of you ,friends from the north, should see it, and wake up; do something about all the lies that have been told to you.
To the ones that will take my recomendation and actually see this movies i say thanks. To the rest of you who probably think that i'm just not worth taking in consideration, i ask you to give this a try.If you don't like it you can insult me as hard as you want.
I really hope you see this
thanks.

Merged with existing thread -- j7

jonathan7
11-24-2008, 10:59 PM
Well my friends from the north i'm from Argentina and i just wanted to recomend you a pretty good documentary, WWW.ZEITGEISTMOVIE.COM it' has to parts,
the fisrt one is Zeitgeist movie, the second one Zeitgeist Adendum.
The movie is about all the lies that have been told to us and how to make the world a better place. I do realize that most of you will see me as another latin guy trying to afect you minds or something, but this picture was made by americans for americans, and i strongly believe that all of you ,friends from the north, should see it, and wake up; do something about all the lies that have been told to you.
To the ones that will take my recomendation and actually see this movies i say thanks. To the rest of you who probably think that i'm just not worth taking in consideration, i ask you to give this a try.If you don't like it you can insult me as hard as you want.
I really hope you see this
thanks.

You know what I really love is the number of assumptions on your part here...

a) You assume everyone is American
b) You assume people are all automatically unaware of what Zeitgeist says
c) You assume everything in Zeitgeist is true
d) You assume people haven't already seen the film
e) You assume people won't take on board what Zeitgeist says
f) You assume people are going to insult you...

Need I (a Brit) really go on? Please don't make assumptions, assumptions are usually wrong, and based on stereotypes - how familiar are you with the people of Lucas Forums? etc etc