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TheSithEmperor
10-23-2008, 10:24 PM
I'm not sure if i've structured this well enough to make sense, here goes.

Yoda is powerfull. But i would of thought he would be much more powerfull considering hes been a Jedi for hundreds of years because of his species life span. He fights Darth Sidious on Equal footing until retreating in Episode 3, even though Sidious has only the life span of a human.

Which would mean Yoda has done hundreds of years more training, Obtained more knownledge etc, but still not able to defeat Sidious.

Any reasons for this?.. I'm guessing there is a limit to the potential of power one can reach with the force.:xp:

Rev7
10-23-2008, 10:44 PM
And that he was a little guy. Ya, he says, "Size matters not", but it really kinda does, in some ways more than others.

Fredi
10-23-2008, 11:16 PM
I think Yoda begun his training at a late age if I am not wrong. Remember he is pretty old too, the older a person ir the weaker he becomes, and well they say the dark side of the force makes you more stronger, so dose might be some reasons.

Hayden Kered
10-24-2008, 02:11 AM
Yoda underestimated Sidious. Remember he told Luke not to underestimate him either in which he was referring to his fight with the Emperor.

At the end of Episode 3 Sidious was at his full peak of power, hence his domination over the senate, the fall of Anakin, and the victory over Yoda.

Sabretooth
10-24-2008, 02:47 AM
When you are several centuries old, your limbs aren't exactly in prime condition. :indif:

A Galaxy Foreseen
10-24-2008, 05:36 PM
I believe that he just retreated from the battle, he lost his lightsaber. Yeah but he
still got hit with one peice of lightning pushing him off the floating things.
I suppose he could of just gotten his lightsaber and went to kick more booty but choice to retreat saying: "I have failed" or something like that.

But I believe he is very powerful but maybe not enough or too tired to fight Sidious anymore?

Ali1392
10-24-2008, 06:55 PM
i think he was weakened from the death of all the jedi, if sidious had been on the outside of that capsual he would of been thrown to his death but yoda was only injured and yoda also realised that hed been training the Jedi order to fight an open battle against the sith rather than a shadow war which was what happened which was why he tryed to take sidious with him, thats why sidious got scared at the end of that fight

Darth_vilas
10-28-2008, 06:54 PM
Getting more knowledgeble and wiser doesn't make you stronger. You just have a peak. Maybe he was there, maybe he was past his prime.
Also the death of countless Jedi (who he maybe had a minor force bond with because he trained many jedi) didn't help either.

Fredi
10-28-2008, 10:27 PM
Remember he was weaken and unfocused from all the dead Jedi's. Yoda might have done a bond with a few jedi's that where kill and thats enough to unfocused a Jedi.

adamqd
11-13-2008, 02:13 PM
I think that Power, potential and training are irrelevant when it comes to destiny, Anakin had high midichlorian count, was much stronger and more powerful in the force than his peers, held in high regard etc, but it was the will of the force that he be mutilated to near death and spend his life in pain and servitude.
It say's in the novelization of ROTS that Yoda was destined to lose his battle with Sidious from the day he was born, and that the Sith were to take control and destroy the Jedi. It also makes sense that Luke would be able to defeat and redeem an Old Republic trained Jedi hero turned veteran Sith Lord within a couple of years of finding out what the Force and a Lightsaber was.

Yoda was the best the Jedi had to offer and truly was powerful and wise, but it was his destiny to see the End of the Jedi as he knew it (although he would later be a major player in the dawn of the new Order) :)

Ztalker
11-16-2008, 07:24 AM
Why not turn the question around?

Is Sidious/Palpatine more powerful then we think? He managed to shroud himself from the entire Jedi order for 40 years orso, without even the masters suspecting anything.
Also, he TRAINED Darth Maul. So he's arguably an even better duellist then Maul was. Probably even knowing all fighting forms.

I think Yoda underestimating Sidious is the answer...

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan
11-20-2008, 12:47 AM
i believe yoda couldve kicked the old prune if he wasnt thrown off that ledge.
he was close to doing so. watch sidious during the fight.

firstly,he tried to run away from yoda

during the saber duel, sidious was rather frustrated his attacks were not landing. then he was displaying classic sithly arrogance while throwing the senate pods. (which you'd expect). then look at his face when yoda comes flying at him. he freaked and unleashed his lightning. which yoda blocked. so sidious put everything into the attack. and yet yoda still stops it.

and i dont think yoda was in his prime in ROTS. yet he almost killed sidious, who is saturated by the power of the dark side. but i think after that fall, and the echoes that mustve been screaming across the force, yoda realized he was to weak at that point to win.

i think they were equals in power. but in the novel yoda, dark rendezvous count dooku thought that "if yoda turned to the dark side, nothing in the galaxy would be able to stop him" (<-- not an exact quote, but thats the idea of what he thought)
thats just speculation, but dooku knew how powerful sidious was, and yet to say that? i think there's something there.

Rinku
11-28-2008, 04:01 PM
Yoda is powerful, but remember that he was centuries old and probablty weary from the clone wars, add to that that order 66 had just been executed, obi-wan and him had just had to attack the jedi temple and found out that anikin did all of that.

Rev7
11-28-2008, 04:07 PM
^
Fortitude, my friend. Always staying calm is the Jedi way. I don't think that should be the reason why Yoda lost the fight. You have to remember that fights can be very unpredictable--and really, anyone can win ifthey make the right moves and decisions. Sidious used what was around him to win the fight.

Rinku
11-28-2008, 05:46 PM
You are right about staying calm.

Yoda is powerful, but one has to known when a fight is lost and that it is better to retreat. If Yoda had not been thrown off the ledge he would have most likely won, but when he fell the tide of the battle turned toward Sidious unfortunately.

Rev7
11-28-2008, 07:41 PM
^
We can only speculate, but I too think that Yoda winning is very plausible

M@RS
11-29-2008, 07:58 PM
I think Yoda begun his training at a late age if I am not wrong. Remember he is pretty old too, the older a person ir the weaker he becomes, and well they say the dark side of the force makes you more stronger, so dose might be some reasons.

Yoda actually started training pretty young... He is old, but he uses the force to suppress that and he's able to jump around like he does... And also, the Sith use the force to become more and more powerful, whilst a Jedi uses the force to their "limit"...

Zayne Carrick
12-02-2008, 05:00 AM
I think Yoda underestimated himself, like some old people think they can still do things that they did when they were 20, but when they attempt it they end up getting hurt.

adamqd
01-01-2009, 06:46 AM
Yoda actually started training pretty young

I'm not Sure on his age when he started training, but he was already an Adult, unaware he was a Force Sensitive, when he crash landed on an unnamed planet on route to the core worlds, and met a Jedi Master, who informed him of said affinity and began his training. also he was 100 years old when he attained the rank of Master, a rank Obi-Wan reached within 11 or so years of making Knight at age 25. My guess is he wasn't a spring Chicken. But his age isn't why he lost, as I explained in an earlier post.

LordOfTheFish
01-01-2009, 10:20 AM
Let's see. Sidious betrayed his master killing him in his sleep, correct? The reason being he became more powerful. Perhaps Yoda couldn't gain more power, or skill because nobody was good enough to teach him? Eh?

Fredi
01-01-2009, 01:40 PM
Yoda lost because he is a Jedi, a Jedi know their limits and he understood that maybe it was not the right moment to win over Sidious.

K_Kinnison
01-01-2009, 02:26 PM
IN all of the Star wars novels I have read (Not NJO) the movies, and even some of the comics. ONe Jedi alone cannot defeat a SIth Master. Mace windu was able to fight Sideous to a stalemate.

One idea i have is that Yoda knew he could not DEFEAT sideous. Instead of Sacrificing himself he could find another way. Via subversion or training another to help him defeat Sideous. "Into Exile I must go. Failed I, have"

It took hundreds of Jedi to defeat Exar Kun the first time, and several the second time.
Luke had to use the Dark side to defeat Vader, but Vader AND luke were able to defeat the EMporer
Luke and liea (and the unborn twins) were able to defeat the Emperor clone

Mace could have likely defeated Sideous with Anakins help. And Yoda would have been able to defeat Sideous with the help of another Jedi.

I will note that Dooku, Maul, and Vader were NOT sith Masters.

Fredi
01-01-2009, 03:23 PM
I will note that Dooku, Maul, and Vader were NOT sith Masters.

And Darth Malak? Darth Traya? They where killed by a Jedi.

TKA-001
01-01-2009, 04:00 PM
but Vader AND luke were able to defeat the EMporer
When did they do that?

K_Kinnison
01-01-2009, 05:43 PM
And Darth Malak? Darth Traya? They where killed by a Jedi.

Video games are the worse source of information regarding the SW Universe, a lot of liberties are taken for the sake of gameplay

TKA-001 where else? RotJ, while Sideous was focused on trying to kill Luke with Force lighting, Vader was able to pick up 'his nibs' and give him the shaft

Fredi
01-01-2009, 07:43 PM
Video games are the worse source of information regarding the SW Universe, a lot of liberties are taken for the sake of gameplay

TKA-001 where else? RotJ, while Sideous was focused on trying to kill Luke with Force lighting, Vader was able to pick up 'his nibs' and give him the shaft

Hmm that could be a good explanation, Darth Caedus and Lumiya where kill by one Jedi as well but they both sacrificed their lives for another reason.

PoiuyWired
01-26-2009, 10:32 PM
And Darth Malak? Darth Traya? They where killed by a Jedi.

Malak was defeated by an ex-Sith, aka his master. While Traya is defeated by someone with a weird condition, someone with a bond to her, also adding the fact that she did sacrifice her hand to get her scheme going and lacks the time to get a replacement.

starwind40
02-15-2009, 01:20 PM
The real question is why Yoda decided to fight Sidious Alone. That is why I think Sidious knew that he could defeat Yoda because of yoda's Arrogance. That was the only part of the movie that I thought was totally ridiculous. Kenobi and Anakin faught Dooku together, so it would make sense with the other opinions on this thread that it may take more than 1 jedi to kill a sith master.


Kenobi is as powerful as mace. And would have been a great help. As powerful as Sidious is,why would Yoda risk not having help. So why didn't they both go to kill the emperor and then find vader?

but on the other hand George Lucas had to make sure that both the emperor and Vader survive for 4,5,and 6. ah poop

jedi_christian
02-18-2009, 01:09 PM
I think there are many reasons for Yoda not defeating the Emperor :
1) Yoda was really old a that moment
2) Many Jedi where killed that moment, he had a band with them
3) Yoda gained his ''strength'' from knowledge and wisdom , that doesn't mean he is the most powerful in light saber duels
4) He maid a really big mistake : Arrogance
5) The Emperor was at the top of his power...

BTW Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker defeated the emperor because together they were probably the most powerful Jedi-allies in Star Wars history.
Darth Vader was more powerful then the emperor or Yoda ;)

K_Kinnison
02-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Anakin was more powerful then yoda, but his lack of experaince would have been his defeat. That is also why Dooku was able to defeat him the first time, and Obi-wan.

But I would have to say after Anakin got the Vader suit, he was no longer more powerful then the Emperor until he came back to the Light side in RotJ. That is why he was trying to Convince Luke to join him. only together could the Emperor be defeated.

The Dark Lord
03-15-2009, 05:18 AM
Guys your all missing the point...

Sidious is probably as old as yoda anyway and you know this because when he is talking about the legend he refers to himself it the apprentices place.

Their fore age had nothing to do with it and Yoda's species don’t get weak until they are really old about to pass to the force. But yoda and sidious were just about equal in the Duel. Yoda lost his concentration when sidious was throwing those senate pods at him. That why he wasn’t able to activate his lightsaber to reflect the lightening, instead he had lost his concentration forgetting to do so he had to use the force to defend against the lightening.
Sidiuos had never lost his concentration and that is why he won. But maybe all those Jedi getting killed had something to do with Yoda losing his concentration.

gallandro
03-27-2009, 03:45 AM
Yoda (and all the Jedi) underestimated the Sith... and they made a grave error:

The Sith evolved; The Jedi did not. The Jedi stayed rigid in their teachings... they did not change in the thousand years since the last time the Sith were around... The Sith, on the other hand, spent the last thousand years studying the force... and studying the Jedi... and changing with the times.

Yoda's loss in that battle had nothing to do with power... it had to do with the fact that he (and all Jedi) were completely unprepared for the enemy they faced.

This is all explained in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, by the way. A great read (IMO).

Fredi
03-27-2009, 10:28 PM
I do agree with you on the sith evolution thing :p

Te Je'karta Mand'alor
03-28-2009, 05:39 PM
some of u guys got it WWAAYY wrong... yoda OVERestimated his enemys. and just because he's old, does'nt make him the best. theres only so much to learn. and plus, he was really old for his species... about 850... they only live to be like 800

The Dark Lord
03-29-2009, 04:21 AM
but using the force u can become imortal, as the sith said you can even save people from death. Just coz he said "not from a jedi" does not mean he was right, to be honest hes made a few errors in his time including on the games.

adamqd
03-29-2009, 07:50 AM
he was really old for his species... about 850... they only live to be like 800

Really, wheres the evidence of that? Yoda.

Yaddle is dead at under 500, well before nature takes it's course.
Vandar has no age given, but is killed on Katarr.
and the only other known appearance of a member of the unnamed species is in a "Tales" comic, and could quite possibly be a young Yoda anyway.

Te Je'karta Mand'alor
03-30-2009, 05:57 PM
they can't become "imortal"... they become "one with the force". like him and kenobi did along with anakin. and adamqd, you've got it right about yaddle, but she did'nt die naturaly... she was killed by a bomb, trying to save a 13 year old anakin from death.
also, yoda dos'nt nessisarily have more knolage, because he has'nt even studied half the jedi holocrons...and darth plagues the wise was the only being ever to save people from death.