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View Full Version : So, an old attack on Barack Obama is resurfacing...


Arcesious
10-24-2008, 01:01 AM
Ever heard of the 'Obama Birth Certificate' smear? I'm not sure what to think upon hearing this and researching it myself. Pretty much, my father heard abotu this from a guy I've mentioned before, Michael Alan Weiner (AKA Michael Savage). So my father went to research this himself, and found a lot of youtube videos about it, and showed a few of them to me. The videos seemed legitamate, and the people making the videos didn't seem like crazy conspiracy theorists upon inspecting their channels. But I went to research it myself, not on youtube.

Here: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

Now, thing is, this is old, but it is resurfacing, but not in the TV media.

I'm still extremely sceptical about this, but the things I've heard about this Birth certificate are interesting.

Here's one of many sites talking about it in depth: http://xenon.arcticus.com/barack-obama-birth-certificate-image-tampering-analysis

So, I have no idea what to think... What do you all think?

Jae Onasi
10-24-2008, 01:27 AM
I think it's a distraction from real issues.

The copy of my birth certificate is not an exact replica of the one filed in 19-mumbly. When I had to get a passport in '83, I had to get a copy of my birth certificate, and the state sent me a notarized, state-sealed photocopy of the one filled out by the hospital staff and my parents and signed by the doctor. Sometime during the 80's or 90's when Wisconsin computerized, they switched formats for birth certificate copies. They input the data into the computer and the birth certificate copy that got spit out of the printer when I ordered one for a trip to Mexico a few years back looks a lot like the one on Obama's site. I have no clue what program WI uses for printing it, or what company they use for the specialized paper it gets printed on, or even if the paper lot is the same now as it was a few years ago when I got my copy.

He was born on US soil, Hawaii has a copy of his birth certificate and if it was faked I'm sure the state of Hawaii would have had something to say about it by now. His birth, like most babies, is probably even reported in the local newspaper a day or two after if someone feels like looking through some old microfiche.

True_Avery
10-24-2008, 01:45 AM
Michael Savage?

Ok, here is what you need to know about Michael Savage and the type of person he is:

He was fired from MSNBC for telling a gay man he should die of AIDS on national television.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-07-07-talk-host-fired_x.htm

He called Autism an "Act" and Autistic kids "brats"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-michael-savage-autism-080721-ht,0,7335653.story

He told an Islamic caller “take your religion and shove it up your behind” because “I’m sick of you.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/arts/17sava.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5089&en=db50008b8e9244cc&ex=1355547600&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

Said that college students on a hunger strike for immigration laws should "starve to death"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200707060009

And yes, I've listened to his show multiple times out here as I was forced to listen to it for nearly a year straight in a car-pool.

But, as far as the topic goes...

Guess what?

http://austin.about.com/cs/vitalstatistics/ht/birth_cert_mail.htm

You can legally get copies of your Birth Certificate in the United States of America.

So, is it the original? Probably not. Is it a copy? Yes. Could the stamp on the back be the day they re-printed it? Quite possibly.

The fact of the matter is, he would not be allowed to get this far if he was not a citizen of the United States. This is a smear campaign at the last minute, and a pretty poor one at that.

Arcesious
10-24-2008, 02:06 AM
Yes, I realized that 'Savage' is a person of very questionable character a good amount of time ago. I still have to listen to him in the car every time I drive with my father, but oh well... It's good exercise for the 'refutation-generating' part of my brain. Funny how people sharing opinions with a person like that will eat it right up (mentally, metaphorically) and never notice the massive amounts of irrationality.

Anyways, I'm not taking this whole Birth Certificate smear very seriously. Still thogh, this all seems questionable.

Tyrion
10-24-2008, 02:35 AM
Regardless of the fact that it seems Obama's birth certificate is by any reasonable standard authentic, I imagine the years he's poured into the country alone is enough proof that he wants to see the country prosper.

As well, I doubt Obama would have ran for President if he knew he was not a natural citizen.

El Sitherino
10-24-2008, 09:58 PM
Sorry, but that's a fallacy. Ad hominem.

Typically those accusations are followed with things like links or funny pictures.

Nedak
10-24-2008, 10:32 PM
Am I the only one that got this from this thread?

http://www.orwelltoday.com/sheeptv.jpg

Litofsky
10-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Sheep + Telescreen = Sheeple?

As for the old attack resurfacing, such is the nature of politics. When a candidate gets desperate, they tend to dig deeper into their pit of moral degradation.

True_Avery
10-25-2008, 02:13 AM
Sorry, but that's a fallacy. Ad hominem.
Well then I apologize for pointing out that his opinion is one to be taken with a truckload of salt. While it is an attack on his character, I still think it is important to point out that this man is incredibly biased and unmoving in his opinions, so the factual validity of his arguments are questionable to fallacy as well.

And I did address his argument by linking the fact you can get a copy of your birth certificate printed and mailed to you, and that making a statement like "He edited it and is cheating" is nothing more than a smear campaign because he would have actually been heavily investigated before being able to be placed on a ballet.

jonathan7
10-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Sorry, but that's a fallacy. Ad hominem.

If I call Hitler one of the most evil men to have ever lived, and we should ignore his anti-semitic outlook - is that a fallacy and an Ad hominem?

I'm sorry, but I must confess that I am getting a little tired of reading "fallacy and Ad hominem" *, when people are bringing up relevant data are about a source. Some people just aren't very nice people, and as such shouldn't be listened too - from TA's post this man does not sound like someone who would produce an argument worth listening too - If Obama's birth certificate is faulty more reliable sources than this man should be used....

* Please note this does not mean you have the right to attack each other, I was however wanting to point out, that some "Ad Hominems" are relevant as if a member of the Ku Klux Klan puts forward arguments for the racial superiority of whites his racist background is relevant. As such I think such points about a source are relevant... That is to say I think its fine to question the character where pertinent of a source, however Ad Hominems against fellow forums is unacceptable - if they are a racist for example they will be dealt with quickly enough... My 2 cents.

jonathan7
10-25-2008, 12:22 PM
I would put up a diagram, but...

Michael Savage says Obama's Birth Certificate is fake. Michael Savage told a gay man he should die of AIDS on national television. Michael Savage told an Islamic caller “take your religion and shove it up your behind” because “I’m sick of you.” There is something objectionable or incorrect about what Michael Savage said. Everything Michael Savage is false.

Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? If you know someone is of suspect character, and is say known to be a liar, or a manipulator of truth, is it a more sensible method to doubt everything they say, or to trust it? If someone is known to big like Micheal Savage, someone who has proved themselves to be unpleasant - why trust anything he has to say? His comments prove himself to neither be a member of the intelligentsia nor a man of integrity, so as such, even if this is intellectually snobish of me, really don't care what he says. And as such would request more reliable individuals be sited as sources for this kid of report.

Arcesious
10-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Let me point out that it was not Michael Savage whom first brought this up, it was a democrat named Philip Berg.

This is interesting:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

But so is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs

Although, the channel, illuminatitv, upon inspection, seems highly biased and full of conspiracy theory crap, this video still raises questions...

Achilles
10-28-2008, 02:17 AM
Am I the only one that got this from this thread?
<snip> Does that come in wallpaper-size too? 1280x800 perhaps?

@topic: the hoops one has to go through to question the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate can be applied to anyone. If we want to be intellectually honest about this, let's apply the same standard of evidence to McCain's birth certificate (issued in Panama).